Dershowitz: Students don't want diversity of ideas; Trump's son defends 'deportation force' plan

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," November 12, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, an unbelievable new twist in the so-called debate over free speech spreading across U.S. college campuses. As one student government reportedly rejects a plan to honor the victims of September 11th over worries that acknowledging a tragedy by quote, "non-White perpetrators" could, quote, "Increase racist attitudes on campus." That's where we are today.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Students say, there are currently no annual September 11th ceremonies at the University of Minnesota, twin cities campus. But just this week, one young man's proposal to have them every year was rejected. With the student director of diversity and inclusion, saying, quote, "It might make a space that is unsafe for students, even moron safe. We have also seen national attention this week on a similar debate at Yale where administrators are trying to convince angry young people at Yale that the exchange of ideas, defensive or not, is the foundation of higher learning, not to mention the First Amendment.

Well, at the University of Missouri, where students were told this week to call campus police if they heard offensive speech or insulting speech, the vice president of the student body, the vice president is now making the case that citing the bill of rights is really no excuse for infringing on her safe space.


More On This...

    BRENDA SMITH-LEZAMA, STUDENT BODY, VICE PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI: I personally am tired that hearing that First Amendment Rights protect students when they're creating a hostile and unsafe learning environment for myself and for other students here. I think that it's important for us to create that distinction and create that space where we can all learn from one another and start to create a place of healing rather in place where we're experiencing a lot of hate like we have in the past.


    KELLY: Joining me now, Alan Dershowitz, a Harvard law professor and Yale Law School graduate who himself has experienced a tense experience on a college campus recently. He's also author of the new book "Abraham: The World's First (But Certainly Not Last) Jewish Lawyer."

    Great to see you, Professor. So --


    KELLY: So, let's -- all right. I think the viewers know where I stand on this. I've made it very clear. However, let me take the position of a young woman we just saw. We have rules and corporations that say, you can't talk a certain way and work here. They say why can't we have those same rules on college campuses? You can't talk that way, you can't say those things. Because this is an institution, this is a place where you shouldn't have to be subjects to that.

    DERSHOWITZ: Well, this is the same people who claim they're seeking diversity. The last thing many of these students want is real diversity. Diversity of ideas. They may want superficial diversity of gender. Superficial diversity of color, but they don't want diversity of ideas. We're seeing a curtain of McCarthyism descend over many college campuses. You know, I don't want to make analogies to the 1930s but we have to remember that it was the students at universities who first started burning books during the Nazi regime. And these students are book burners. They don't want to hear diverse views on college campuses.

    When I went to speak at Johns Hopkins University, there were protests. It was said that because I won't acknowledged that Israel commits crime against the Palestinians, I am, quote, "harassing students" and violating the ethical standards of John Hopkins University. By expressing my opinion, I am harassing students. This has become a very serious problem not only in American universities, but in universities around the world, as well. And it is influencing and having a terrible impact on the education of students.

    KELLY: You have spent your life in a court room and on college campuses, on one in particular, and it is an elite institution. When you go to college, you know, as my 100-year-old nanny would say, at least it was when I went to school, you go and you express your freedom and you find your -- it's young adulthood and you want to do all sorts of things and you don't want anybody getting all up in your business. But now, now, they're demanding that the school get all up in everybody's business and the freedom has to stop when it comes to words.

    DERSHOWITZ: No, it's the worst kind of hypocrisy. They want complete freedom over their sex lives, over their personal lives, over the use of drugs. But they want mommy and daddy, and dean and president to please give them a safe place, protect them, from ideas that may be insensitive. Maybe we'll make them think. But it's a double standard. Look at what's happening at Hunter University, city university of New York. Students for Justice in Palestine have issued a petition saying Zionist administrators are causing high tuition in the school. Zionist administrators, you know what they mean by Zionist, they mean Jews.

    KELLY: Uh-hm.

    DERSHOWITZ: Blatant anti-Semitism, nobody says a word. When I spoke at Johns Hopkins University, some of the protesting students, the same students who were talking about safe places, painted a Hitler mustache on my posters. No concern about that. It's an absolute double standard. It is free speech for me, but not for me. And universities should not tolerate this kind of hypocrisy, double standard and college administrators have to start treating students as adults and talking back to them.

    KELLY: Where is the spine? As somebody who's been on academia, where's the spine of this administrators?

    DERSHOWITZ: They're all afraid. They're all afraid. After Larry Summers got fired from Harvard. After the President of Missouri gets fired, college administrators don't want to have to confront students. Or if you're going to be a college administrator or a professor, if you have tenure, you have to speak back to the students.

    KELLY: Yes.

    DERSHOWITZ: You have to call these things what they are. Double standard, hypocrisy, bigotry, McCarthyism and the fog of fascism is descending quickly over many American universities. We have to fight back against these students.

    KELLY: Yes. The duty to educate doesn't walk out the door just because things get tense and uncomfortable.

    DERSHOWITZ: Absolutely.

    KELLY: Professor Dershowitz, thank you for being here.

    DERSHOWITZ: Thank you.

    KELLY: Joining me now with more, Peggy Noonan, Wall Street Journal columnist, former presidential speechwriter and author of the new book, "The Time of our Lives." And you've been writing in the book which I read, The Time of our Lives," we have some of your columns where you talk about what's been happening to the little cupcakes on the college campuses. And not just any college campus, but Yale, Peggy. At Yale we're seeing this.

    PEGGY NOONAN, WALL STREET JOURNAL COLUMNIST: Yes. At great universities. The kind of school that people are very lucky to be at. They are not really the oppressed, if you look at it a certain way.

    KELLY: Right. Right.

    NOONAN: They are getting a wonderful education. They are in the heart of the American elite. They are going to go onto elite lives. Look, I agree that everything Allen just said, this is a really important thing that's happening on the campuses now. I'm very glad that slowly but surely over the past few months and years, it is been exposed. This is a censorship movement. It is a movement to censor free speech by people who don't seem to know even what the First Amendment is. They seem -- I'm surprised there were Yale in Mizzou because it doesn't seem to have been educated that well about the First Amendment.

    KELLY: Uh-hm.

    NOONAN: But it is a progressive sort of movement that is dangerous because once they control free speech, and what can be said, they get to be the arbiters of what can't be said.

    KELLY: That's right. Everybody speech.

    NOONAN: Yes.

    KELLY: You know, I was reading a review just yesterday actually of your book by Peter Berkowitz and who loved the book and he was saying talking about your writing and how you have repeatedly criticized the self- esteem movement, which substitutes flattery of ego for the cultivation of character. Is that what we are seeing here? The cupcakes get to school? And they think I am God's gift. And I just heard someone say something that is unpleasant.

    NOONAN: Yes, I know. It is an odd thing. You have to wonder about what they were taught. How they were, in a way, brought up the past 20 years so that they think the highest value for them is the feeling, quote- unquote, of "personal safety." And so many things violate that feeling of personal safety such as great literature, stories of history that contain horrifying facts of information. They all claim to be so tender and so intimidated by the facts of life. But when you see them up close, at these demonstrations they seem not intimidated. They seem like intimidators.

    KELLY: Uh-hm.

    NOONAN: They are muscling people as that famous Mizzou journalism teacher --

    KELLY: Right. Literally, that's what she was saying.

    NOONAN: Yes. They are.

    KELLY: Again, let me offer their point of view, which is, why should I have to sit at my college campus and pay all of this money to obtain an education and have to listen to somebody say something that is racially offensive or as sexist remark.

    NOONAN: Well, I actually don't think our great universities are full of teachers saying racist and sexist things. But it is true that if you study great literature, certainly plenty of the great literature of the west, Shakespeare has violence. He has sexism. If you want to look at it that way, great literature does have these

    KELLY: But outside of literature, you live this thing called life. Has that ever happened to you? Has Left ever delivered that your way?

    NOONAN: Yes, this is a funny thing. They have an expectation that they will be protected from life. I don't know where that expectation came from as your nana -- probably used to say, nobody protected me.

    KELLY: Right.

    NOONAN: I mean, in free societies there are no safe places. In an area like in great academy where people are actually honestly discussing ideas, there is no quote, "safety."

    KELLY: That's right.

    NOONAN: But there can be learning advancement, you can learn courage. You can learn how to be a strong person.

    KELLY: That's right.

    NOONAN: You cannot hide from the world and you should not bully people.

    KELLY: I was at an event in Westchester today, St. Vincent's hospital, great cause, and said to the ladies there that, you know, back in my day, you know, now, these students, you can't offend them, you can't insult them. Growing up at my house, my mother was the one doing the offense, he's the one insulting. It worked out okay. I got a thick skin. Later in life, when some prominent people would throw insults that way, people --

    NOONAN: Also, these young ones don't seem to know that we adults experience so much of life and our culture as constant microaggressions.

    KELLY: Yes.

    NOONAN: And constant triggering of events.

    KELLY: And we're still okay.

    NOONAN: But, you know, I have survived, you have survived.

    KELLY: Yes. You have a glass of wine at the end of the day, you're good to go. I got to go. Peggy, it's great to see you. "Time of our Lives," check it out.

    Well, we also have breaking news tonight on Donald Trump taking new heat after he expressed support for a 1950s plan to deport illegal immigrants, a program known as operation wetback.

    Up next, filmmaker and immigration activist Jose Vargas is here to react along with our special guest Eric Trump, Donald Trump's son is here.

    Plus, THE KELLY FILE just talked to a possible eyewitness in a murder case getting national attention. Find out what he saw. Plus hear what he told police, are here with the police just told us a short time ago as Judge Janine Pirro joins us on this shocking murder.

    And then angry students across the country took to the streets today demanding free tuition at colleges across the country. Yes, here they go again. Brian Kilmeade has some thoughts on that. And he's very serious about them.


    NEIL CAVUTO, FOX BUSINESS HOST: It's stuff that you want.


    CAVUTO: The country.

    MULLEN: Oh, I mean, there's always going to be a one percent in the U.S.



    KELLY: Breaking tonight, Donald Trump's campaign is taking some fire tonight after he calls for deporting millions of illegal immigrants along the lines of a program in place in the 1950s under Presidents Truman and Eisenhower, immigration services rounded up and deported hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, could have been as much as 1.5 to two million by some estimates in what was then called operation wetback which is a slur. Mr. Trump addressed the plan tonight with Bret Baier on special reports.


    DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Everybody knows I'm right. I don't even think it's tougher. Now you could say that Eisenhower moved a million and a half. I actually hear it was 2.2 million out. I also hear that Harry Truman moved millions of people out. But those were different days. That was, we were a tougher country. We had laws then and you obeyed the laws. It wasn't like it is today where people can do whatever they want. That was a different age. I'm saying this, it will be done in a humane way. It will be done professionally. The people can come back in, but they have to come in through a legal process.


    KELLY: In moments, we will hear from both Jose Antonio Vargas, a film maker and immigration activist who himself admits to being undocumented.

    Plus, Eric Trump is here, the Republican candidate son and executive Vice President of the Trump Organization. But first, Trace Gallagher has the story. Trace?

    TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, even though President Eisenhower's deportation operation has been called a dark period in American history, when Donald Trump says he's heard good reports and bad reports about the plan, he's correct. In fact for decades, the operations were highly praised by veterans of the border patrol who called it effective and inexpensive. Studies from UCLA and the Texas Historical Association puts a total number of those deported well below the 1.3 million often cited.

    But the numbers show that fewer than a thousand border patrol agents were able to round up and deport up to 3,000 illegal immigrants per day. The program also lead to self-deportation and proved to be a deterrent for those who wanted to cross illegally. In fact, by the late 1950s, illegal immigration dropped by 95 percent though experts say some of that drop is due to a guest-worker program that gave legal status to hundreds of thousands of Mexican farm workers.

    But the abuse of those deported is also well-documented. That Congressional investigation found that Latin-American immigrants were being transported in crowded busses and quote, "dumped on the either side of the border like livestock." Some of whom died from exposure to scorching heat. The study also compared transport ships to 18th Century slave ships. Trump's opponent say his plan is unreasonable. Dr. Ben Carson says, quoting here, "The 11.5 million people rounding them up, and deporting them may sound good to some people but it's not pragmatic." Florida Senator Marco Rubio added this. Watch.


    SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I do not believe you can round up and deport 11 million people, especially people that have been here 15 years, have not otherwise violated the law, can pass background checks and so forth. And there's got to be a process to deal with that, realistically.


    GALLAGHER: Hillary Clinton also snuck in a jab calling the plan un- American and inhumane. Trump says, it will be humane and he will do it -- Megyn.

    KELLY: Trace, thank you.

    Joining me now with more, Jose Antonio Vargas. Jose, thank you for being here. So, you know, Mr. Trump has not signed, he hasn't signed onto that operation, you know, wetback as his exact plan. But he does believe in deportation force. What say you?

    JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER: Well, the term deportation force and humanely don't go together. I don't even know what that means. There are 4.5 million U.S. citizen kids in this country who has at least one parent who is undocumented. How is that humanely to those U.S. American children? Not anchor babies. U.S. American children. And I have to say, by the way, Megyn, like it's been fascinating these past few months hearing Donald Trump talk about people like us as if were insects off their backs. I would love for Donald Trump maybe bring his son, you know, come here in Los Angeles, the epicenter of the undocumented community in this country. Let's go to MacArthur Park. You want to have a conversation about undocumented immigrants and illegal immigration and deportation? Come here, sir. We want to talk to you about it.

    KELLY: Why? What do you mean? What's your point?

    VARGAS: Well, the point is he's been doing, he's been giving these speeches. He's been talking to people. But has Donald Trump actually faced at least some of these 11 million undocumented people that he's talking about? What does he mean? What does he mean by that?

    KELLY: But you know his points, Jose. His point is, they broke the law. And what we do, you know, one of the reasons we have immigration enforcement agents is to deport those people who came into the country illegally.

    VARGAS: Well, by the way, when I outed myself as undocumented four years ago, Megyn, it's to say, what do you want to do with us? Poll after poll has shown by the way that that a majority of the American public want us to stay and be given some sort of a pact legalization. Poll after poll has shown that. By the way, I mean, this is other things that I've found interesting. Donald Trump is running in the republican ticket. Don't Republicans believe in small government? If you believe in a small government, why would you want to create another large bureaucratic system to deport 11 million people? It doesn't make any sense.

    KELLY: Uh-hm. And that is where I'm going to pick it up with my next guest. Jose, it's always interesting speaking you. Thank you for being here.

    Eric Trump is here, as I mentioned. Let's pick it up there, Eric. What about that? Because that's been a criticism that we've heard even from some Republicans of his plan. What about small government? Do you know how many agents it would take? How many law enforcements? How many INS or ICE agents it would take?

    ERIC TRUMP, EXECUTIVE VP, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Let me start in a different way. My father is one of the greatest men in the world. He's an amazing, amazing person. He wants to put America first. Right? There's a hundred million people in this country that are out of work. Yet people are coming over the border, unchecked every single day and it's just not right to the Americans who were born here right? I mean, who have lived here, and you also have a legal system. You have a system where you sign up to come into the country legally.

    KELLY: But even if you have something like Jeb Bush who may agree with that, and Marco Rubio on principle, they say, when it comes to deporting 11.5 million illegal immigrants and your dad has said, he wants to do it in two years, you're talking about 500,000 people a month. How is it going to be -- the one estimate was it's going to take between 400 billion and $500 billion to do it.

    E. TRUMP: But the point is, just deporting them. It's deporting them and letting them back in legally. And he's been so clear about that. And I know liberal media wants to misconstrue. But it's deporting them and letting them back legally. But they have to come into the country legally. And there has to be some checks and balances behind it. I mean, what kind of country are we if people can walk across the border and take jobs from people who have lived there their entire lives. I mean, it really hurts an economy. And that's his point. He's an American patriot. He wants to see the best for his country.

    KELLY: But even those though who might agree with him in theory, right? That say, you know what, it isn't right. They broke the law. They have jobs that, you know, Americans want. If you accept all of that, then there's the method of, well, how do we do it? And back when they did the operation under Eisenhower, you know, some people were killed, there were terrible conditions. They were ripped from families and so on and it was what many people would consider inhumane. That's been the big question. How could it be done?

    E. TRUMP: This is the man who raised me. He's one of the most charitable people you'll ever meet. He's one of the greatest father you'll ever see in the world. Believe me, he will do inhumanely. But he wants to see people come into this country illegally. It's just that simple. He wants to see Americans who are born here have good jobs. He doesn't want to see people come unchecked. It also causes a great danger. I mean, what is coming into the country? I mean, what is coming over the border? Do you have terrorists coming over the border? Do you have people from the Middle East who have done very bad things coming across the border? I mean, how do you have a country like the United States, right? Which is very controversial in many ways. That's hated by so many other countries around the world. How do you have a country where you have people coming in unchecked? Have a process. Have people signed. Have people do it legally.

    KELLY: I want to as you --

    E. TRUMP: Give those jobs back to the Americans, you know, who were here.

    KELLY: I have to ask you because I have you here. And Eric heard our first segment with Peggy and Alan. You went to Georgetown?

    E. TRUMP: Georgetown.

    KELLY: Okay. So, he grew up in a rich family. Right? Powerful father, you go to Georgetown. What do you make of this behavior we're seeing on colleges like Yale? Some of the most privilege universities we have?

    E. TRUMP: Well, it's very different for me. My father had me on construction sites at a very, very young age. I worked and I worked and I worked. And I did the worst jobs -- I was doing electrical work. I mean, he made us work. And it was the greatest thing --

    KELLY: And I'm sure he never let you hear any offensive words.


    E. TRUMP: That's the first thing you could do for type A kid, I will say, right? I mean, you don't want type A children to have free time. You don't want type A children to have lot of money.

    KELLY: Uh-hm.

    E. TRUMP: You work. You learn the trades of your skill and you know, really, still the great work. He's an amazing father. And he's an amazing man. And I really think he's going to go all the way in this process.

    KELLY: And then you grow up and then you look around and you realize you're not a cupcake.


    E. TRUMP: Not a cupcake. I'm glad I'm not Miss World, right?

    KELLY: Eric, it's great to see you.

    E. TRUMP: It's great being here.

    KELLY: Thank you for being here.

    Well, a big development tonight in the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal as FOX News learns that the Feds are looking to see whether somebody close to the case violated a key law, the very same one that sent Martha Stuart to prison. This case appears to be expanding and not in a good way for Mrs. Clinton. That's next.


    KELLY: Breaking tonight, a significant development in the FBI probe in the Hillary Clinton's private e-mail server. FOX News has learned that the Feds are now trying to figure out whether someone connected to this case may have violated a key law. That previously got folks like, oh Martha Stewart sent to jail. The statute known as 18USC 1001 says if someone knowingly or willfully falsifies, conceals or covers up by any trick scheme or device or material fact or makes any materially false fictitious or fraudulent statement, they can go away to prison. To be clear, we do not yet know who the FBI is looking into, but it's not good.

    Lis Wiehl is a FOX News legal analyst and a former federal prosecutor. So, you know, if you're Hillary Clinton, you want it to get smaller --

    LIS WIEHL, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Smaller and not bigger. And thousand one crimes that you throw kind of in to any kind of indictment because I call this low hanging crime, fruit of crimes because it's sort of easy to prove. Right? You don't have to be under oath. You don't have to be, you know, it could be hey, Hillary, how are you doing? I'm an FBI agent. Let's just talk about that server. You know, what did you know is on that server? Anything classified? Oh, no, no, no. Oh, well, fine, take down on those notes. Boom! You got a thousand one violation.

    KELLY: Even if she's not under oath?

    WIEHL: Even if she's not under oath. That's the key here. You don't have to be under oath. Martha Stewart. Everyone thought it was insider trading that will get her, right? No, it was lying to the FBI agents about some trade that she had done. But if not, it's just, you know, I can go down the list. Scooter Libby, Bernie Madoff, Jeffrey Skilling, all of these people were indicted on greater things. Right? But a thousand one violations were peppered in there.

    KELLY: It's not the crime, it's the cover-up.

    WIEHL: It's the cover-up. It's always the cover-up of the crime.

    KELLY: And now we don't know if it's Hillary that they're looking at --

    WIEHL: No. But -- party.

    KELLY: But what this is suggesting is they believe that someone in this case may have lied to federal investigators.

    WIEHL: Exactly. And if that person was, you know, coached by Hillary to lie, that would be it right there.

    KELLY: And the other thing is, you tell me Lis, because you used to prosecute these cases.

    WIEHL: Right. I know exactly what you're going to say.

    KELLY: You're trying to get the person to flip.

    WIEHL: Exactly. Right. You get that low-lying fruit. And you get that person and you're saying, you look at it five years, five years of prison in a federal penitentiary. Talk now. What do you know about that server?

    KELLY: Who gave you the order?

    WIEHL: Who gave the order? Yes. We'll give you something.

    KELLY: I would sing like a canary.

    WIEHL: Oh, I would --



    KELLY: Never commit a crime with me. Never.

    WIEHL: How can we do that together?

    KELLY: But I would be certainly unreliable. I did it, but I didn't do it with any malice.

    WIEHL: No.


    KELLY: It's great.

    WIEHL: We got it.

    KELLY: Coming up, big new backlash over the holiday plan at some major shopping centers. And Brian Kilmeade is here to grace us with the story. Look at him. Look at him. Humorless as always. He can't hear us. Here's my favorite part. Look at him. How long can we keep it rolling?

    Plus, breaking news in the murder of a pregnant mother. This is a terrible story. You heard about this? She is a pastor's wife. She's pregnant. She's already the mother of a young boy. And we will tell you what we just found out her neighbors saw a few hours before she was killed. This case is heating up. Judge Janine Pirro has been doing some digging and she's here.


    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hopefully though they'll find out who this is because this is the worst thing in the world.

    UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's shaken up now. You know. Everybody.



    KELLY: Breaking tonight. There are new details and there is a new eyewitness account in the case already getting national attention. The shocking murder of a pregnant mother and pastor's wife possibly gun down in their own home. Hours ago, in Indianapolis coroner's office revealing that 28-year-old, Amanda Blackburn was killed by a gunshot to the head. Police say Amanda was found on Tuesday morning by her husband, and yesterday she was taken off life support.

    Now homicide investigator says they had evidence suggesting she was killed in the course of a home robbery. And just a short time ago, a neighbor told The Kelly File that he saw a suspicious man near the victim's home earlier that morning. Judge Jeanine Pirro has been investigating, she'll be here in a moment, but we begin with Trace Gallagher on the latest development who secured, by the way, an exclusive interview. Trace?

    TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Megyn, it's a shattered American dream. A pastor and his wife moved from South Carolina to Indianapolis to start their own church. They have a 1-year-old son. She's pregnant with their second. They live on Sunnyfield Court and spend their lives ministering to their congregation. Suddenly, the husband goes to the gym, and when he comes home, he finds his wife shot in the head. Police say she was killed trying to defend herself from a home invader. A couple of hours before, 28-year-old Amanda Blackburn was shot, a nearby home was burglarized and a short time after that, a neighbor saw what he thought looked like a suspicious man walking through the neighborhood. We just spoke to that neighbor. Listen.


    REGINALD TOWNSEL, NEIGHBOR OF BLACKBURN FAMILY: In that neighborhood, it's very strange to see someone, especially in all black with a hoodie on walking around.


    GALLAGHER: And he told that to police. Now police don't know of the burglary or suspicious man is related to the shooting, but they have collected security footage from the neighbor's home as part of the investigation. The husband, Davey Blackburn is not a suspect. Police say they have time stamped surveillance video showing him arriving and leaving an L.A. fitness center the morning his wife was shot. Pastor Blackburn has now release a statement that reads in part, quoting, "I have not only lost my ministry partner and support, but also my very best friend. There is no way to prepare yourself for circumstances like these." Police have some clues, but not many. Megyn, back to you.

    KELLY: Joining me now, Judge Jeanine Pirro, a former Westchester County New York district attorney and host of Justice with Judge Jeanine right here on Fox, as well as author of He Killed Them All: Robert Durst and My Quest for Justice, and she's getting it in the Durst case. We'll start with this case. This is chilling, this beautiful, young mother pregnant. Already the mother of a son shot down in her own home and they say it was a home robbery. Now the house is nothing, it's not some big, fancy home. They didn't have a lot of money. And so as -- the cops come out tonight and say -- one police spokesman says, "The husband has been ruled out completely and is definitely not a person of interest in this investigation." Does that put a period at the end of, did the husband do it?

    JEANINE PIRRO, FORMER WESTCHESTER, NEW YORK DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. Police often -- have reason. Maybe they believe that that he should be ruled out. But Megyn, one thing is very clear, Megyn. You start out in the home. You have to rule the guy out.

    KELLY: Statistically.

    PIRRO: He says.

    KELLY: They always look at the spouse.

    PIRRO: They always look at the spouse. And he says he went to the gym and he came home at 8:30. He finds his wife shot in the head on the floor, 8:30 in the morning and they have a one-year-old. Then the police interestingly enough say she was defending the toddler from the intruder or intruders, I don't know how they know this. But to go back to him, OK. So let's say he has an alibi. He was in the gym that morning at around the time that she was shot. That doesn't rule out the possibility of the police looking at murder-for-hire. It also doesn't rule out the fact that they have to now look at, was he always going to the gym? Is the gym something that he just recently started? What about Facebook, Twitter, e-mail, finances, telephone records. You know, there's a lot more than this. And then police always have their reasons for saying what they say.

    KELLY: And we -- you know, we're not always trying to indict the husband.

    PIRRO: No.

    KELLY: But statistically, they always look at the spouse. So we're investigating what are the possibilities here, because the police have been so tight -- lift about this. They are saying a murderer is on the loose.

    PIRRO: Exactly.

    KELLY: Why aren't they releasing any details about the crime or the crime scene?

    PIRRO: And that's very important. Now they've got a crime stoppers that got a reward out there and somebody, you know, gives them information, but if there is a murderer on the loose and if you got a burglary on that same street, three hours earlier, where, apparently no one was hurt, then you've got to think about the danger zone that somebody's burglarizing a home and taking a gun, that means that they're dangerous people. Why aren't the police identifying who the suspect may be? They're putting out no information on this. That tells me that either they have no idea or they are focused on someone and they're being very close-lipped about it.

    KELLY: Has the husband said anything? Do you look at -- is he made any statements?

    PIRRO: All right. The husband has and, you know when I look at statements, I try and I did as a DA, and I'm sure any police officers would. I try to look at the statement and his statement is more about himself than it is about her. And I mean no disrespect to him because I don't know he's presumed innocence and the police have ruled him out.

    KELLY: You should this is for a living.


    KELLY: I'm asking you -- as a DA, what do you look at?

    PIRRO: This is a statement that he made. And this statement is all about I, I, my, I, I, my, my, my, I, my ministry, you know, it's all about him.

    KELLY: He starts out by saying, "I have not -- I only have I lost my ministry partner."

    PIRRO: And support.

    KELLY: But also my very best friend.

    PIRRO: Right. And after that, it's like I am hurting. I am hopeful. I rest in truth. My focus is to minister, you know.

    KELLY: Yeah.

    PIRRO: And you know that's something interesting, as well. What's interesting about this is it's a cul-de-sac, Megyn. The home where they live, it was cul-de-sac. Now, think about this. There's only one way to ingress and egress. Your normal burglar is not going to pick a home on a cul-de-sac.

    KELLY: And then -- and so it could be somebody who knew her or it could be some psycho. I mean, it could be somebody on drugs. Who robs a house at eight in the morning?

    PIRRO: Or it could be a murder-for-hire. We don't know what their background is. We know the thing that they've moved in the last few years to start this new church, but we'll see.

    KELLY: All right. And before I let you go, so this is the case. You know this guy, right? Robert Durst. This man, thanks to Judge Jeanine, in large part, is now in a whole lot of trouble. And this -- and what is the book, does it take us through the story?

    PIRRO: From the moment I heard about the facts and the case of fourth year medical student disappearing, you know, a week before she was to graduate, her husband waits five days for a reporter missing, it was clear to me that this woman didn't just disappear.

    KELLY: And ultimately we saw his confession when HBO did a shocking, a shocking series on him. He Killed Them All -- appropriate names by Judge Jeanine Pirro. Check it out.

    PIRRO: Thank you.

    KELLY: Thanks you so much for being here.

    PIRRO: Thanks, Megyn.

    KELLY: You should check it out too. It's riveting.

    Up next, Brian Kilmeade has a harsh, but important message for the students who today, took to the streets demanding a free -- quote, "Free college education."

    Plus, big, new backlash over the holiday plans at some major shopping centers, when we come back. Look at this. You know what that is?


    DAVID BRITT, UPSET BY GLACIER SANTA DISPLAYS: Merry Christmas. There's something he is, you don't mess with, and that will be one.



    KELLY: Today, students across the country held demonstrations as part of the so-called million student march, demanding free tuition at public colleges. A cancellation of all student debt and a $15 an hour minimum wage for campus workers. But when press by our own Neil Cavuto, one of the leaders of this march had a hard time answering exactly, where the money for all of those demands would come from.


    CAVUTO: How is that going to be paid?



    CAVUTO: Someone has to pick up the tab. Who would that be?

    MULLEN: The one percent of people in society that are hoarding the wealth and really sort of, causing a catastrophe that students are facing. I think that.

    CAVUTO: So where do they go? Let's say if you tax them -- they're smart folks, these people, these 1 percent hoarders, right? So if they leave here.

    MULLEN: Yeah.

    CAVUTO: Then who's going to pay for all of this stuff that you want?

    MULLEN: If they leave?

    CAVUTO: The country.

    MULLEN: Oh, I mean, there's always going to be a 1 percent in the U.S.


    KELLY: Brian Kilmeade is the co-host of Fox & Friends, and author of Thomas Jefferson and the Tripoli Pirates. She's talking about you. She was -- you're a 1 percenter (ph). She wants you to pay. And if you leave, then she's talking about me.



    KILMEADE: All right. We've got a few things to go on. Now, you know, we have very similar backgrounds. I found this out that roughly 70 percent of students borrow to pay for college. The average said that $29,000. But the good thing is, pay it back on a monthly stipend. It's not like you're asking for $29,000 right after you take out.

    KELLY: Right.

    KILMEADE: And lead back the cap and gown. It's a gradual give away. I also remember a system in which you have a coupon book and you pay it back. And if something happens where you lose that jobs, two or three years later, or you're actually behind the 8-ball a little bit, you could actually delay those payments. There is nothing wrong with owing money coming out of college. And here's the other thing, Megyn. You do not have to go to a $62,000 school, or a $42,000 school. There are states school situation here in Sacramento. It's been incredible, very affordable. In New York, it's very competitive. And guess what, if the NYU accepts you, its $62,000. If Ithaca accepts you, it's $55,000. If Syracuse accepts you, it's about $60,000 or $58,000. Guess what, maybe you can't go. You have to go to a college that you can afford and you work your way up. If you're a genius, you get to use the economic grants -- academic grants, you go do it. That's the logical situation. Do I think some private universities could have their tuitions come down? Yeah, then start going to them.

    KELLY: Can you imagine?

    KILMEADE: And they would come down.

    KELLY: You didn't grow up with any money, nor did I. And it no point - - my father had just died three years prior, when he -- when I was a sophomore in high school. At no point did it ever occur to me or my widowed mother, who was widowed at 44-years-old -- that someone who is rich should step in to pay for my tuition that the one percenters (ph) were supposed to swoop in and take care of it for us. We did -- what we could, she used my dad's insurance money. I took out loans. I paid them back. That's how it works in this country. And yet, they want to change the entire system because it would work a whole lot better for them?

    KILMEADE: Yeah. It's unbelievable. My dad passed away in ninth grade, same situation. My mom had to go back to work. We did not -- we qualify for a lot o financial aid. But with that, I made a decision. I would take a guaranteed student loan, not the national direct student loan, I want $7,000 a year debt. These kids have debt, no doubt about it, but you have to be logical from day one. Did I want to go to Syracuse? NYU? Absolutely. Could I afford it? No. Would I have protested because of that? There's a reality to that. So this girl, Keely Mullen, a student at North Eastern University, I did them credit for taking action. You don't like something; you should get used to like some taking action. I just think this is the wrong action.


    KELLY: Because there are millions student march had only 3,000 people signed up to attend and the College of Brooklyn, only 30 people showed up. So, good luck with that. You're going to have to find a lot more to push for those one percenters (ph) to pay for your life.

    And by the way, why don't we pay for mortgages, and why do people (inaudible). We should pay for everything. Why they even have to buy a crib. It's unfair. All right, let's keep on.

    KILMEADE: And do the professors want to get paid, by the way? Is their rent, is they want to get to put the lights on.

    KELLY: Yeah.

    KILMEADE: The electric company is not going to provide air-conditions.


    KELLY: You and I - it's like that Jon Lovitz skit. Like you're born in that much money, you work hard, you get yourself on the way up. Once you get there, what do they say? You. That's your reward.

    KILMEADE: Yeah.

    KELLY: OK. We've got to move on because Meryl Streep has an awesome Facebook post and it's gone totally viral. So look at this picture of Meryl Streep, look at her. So this is what her message reads. "This is me on my way home from an audition for King Kong, where I was told I was too ugly for the part. This is the pivotal moment for me. This one road opinion could derail my dreams of becoming an actress or force me to pull myself up by the boot straps and believe in myself. I took a deep breath and said I'm sorry, you think I'm too ugly for your film, but you're just one opinion in a sea of thousands and I'm off to find a kinder tide. Today, I have 18 academy awards." Oh. I know, sing it, Meryl.


    KELLY: Yes, you should do that.

    KILMEADE: Give me a second. And by the way, James, do not laugh when Megyn is reading. I find it destructing even 3,000 miles away.

    Here's the thing. When you are an actress, if you are not used to rejection, you've got into the wrong business. She's 32-years-old, look she's on a photo shoot. It was supposed a capture on a subway, the worst moment of your life. Most people have never looked that good -- period.

    KELLY: I know, look how gorgeous she is. That some loser in Hollywood tried to tell her she was ugly.

    KILMEADE: Right. And by the way, the problem is.

    KELLY: Remember that, all the young girls out there, watching this, remember that. Some losers tell you you're ugly and you're not.

    KILMEADE: Right. Thank you. By the way, Megyn, don't learn Italian. That's the problem. This guy Dino De Laurentiis said in Italian, she's not good enough to be in King Kong's hand. And because she knew Italian, she said, "I guess, I look -- I'm not as pretty enough for you. I'll move on." So there was an inspirational story that doesn't end up. And by the way, Jessica Lang was in the King Kong's hand.


    KILMEADE: She's very nice person, but rejection is part of life.

    KELLY: That's right.

    KILMEADE: She should know that and she didn't actually post that. That's a bad fan.

    KELLY: And it makes you tougher. I want to ask you about -- somehow we've gone to glacier Santa displays, instead of Christmas trees that nearly 200 malls and the people were not happy.

    KILMEADE: Well, here's the deal. I look to the glaciers in the mall. Went right not far from my house. Actually two are by my house -- bless you. Did you just sneeze?

    KELLY: No. I said, look at them. Look at them.

    KILMEADE: Oh, I sound like you sneeze. I'm sorry. That's the problem with me (inaudible) on a studio (inaudible). Here's the deal. It actually looks like a shell. Looks like a giant shell.


    KILMEADE: It didn't recognize glacier anymore because there is a global warming, they were all gone. The North Pole is now a destination for spring break. Here's the thing. This guy actually spent money. He thought would be better with a big light show.

    KELLY: And he learned the hard way.

    KILMEADE: He's going to undo it all.

    KELLY: It wasn't.

    KILMEADE: He's going to undo it all.

    KELLY: Brian, great.

    KILMEADE: Glacier is back.

    KELLY: Great to see you. Tripoli Pirates.

    KILMEADE: All right.

    KELLY: Don't go away.

    KILMEADE: Yes.


    KELLY: A remarkable scene at the White House today. As a 32-year-old former army captain was awarded the nation's highest military honor in front of some of the very soldiers whose lives he saved in Afghanistan. Back in August of 2012, Captain Florent Groberg noticed an enemy bomber and tackled it, pushing him away from the dozens of American and Afghan personnel who are in the area. The bomb detonated and caused a second unseen bomb to go off before it could be planted. Four brave men died that day, but without Captain Groberg's selfless actions, authorities say the death toll would have been much higher. As today's ceremony wrapped up, the visibly emotional hero took it all in.




    KELLY: Look at that. And later, on the rainy White House grounds, he paid tribute to the men who never made it home.


    CAPTAIN FLORENT GROBERG, MEDAL OF HONOR RECIPIENT: This medal is the greatest honor you can ever receive and I'm blessed and just grateful to have been given the opportunity to serve my country. But this medal belongs to the true heroes, Command Sergeant Griffin, Major Gray, major Kennedy and Ragaei Abdelfattah who made the ultimate sacrifice and they didn't come home. Also belongs to their families, the true heroes who live with that day, every day, missing one of their key members of their family. So I'm honored. I'm overwhelmed, but i hope to become the right carrier for them and to better myself as a human being the rest of my life for them. Thank you.


    KELLY: Following the attack, Groberg spent nearly three years recovering at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center. It's rare when you them getting emotional. That is so moving. He endured more than 30 surgeries. Today's ceremony marked the 10th time, a living service member has received the medal for honor for actions in Afghanistan or Iraq. And with that, one day after the official holiday, we are reminded to treat every day as Veterans Day.


    KELLY: What do you think about free college tuition for everyone? That doesn't sound great? Paid for by the one percenters (ph)? Who else are gonna pay for? Go to Follow me on Twitter @megynkelly. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly and this is "The Kelly File."

    Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.