This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 8, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle -- excuse me, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

Democrats are celebrating their first victory in the era of President Trump, wins in the gubernatorial races in Virginia and New Jersey and content elsewhere across the country. They've declared Election Day 2017 a referendum on the president.


DNC CHAIR TOM PEREZ: You have sent a message tonight not simply to the voters in the commonwealth of Virginia. You have sent a message across the globe to South Korea, Donald Trump you don't stand for our values.

OUT GOING GOV. TERRY MCAULIFFE: You made a choice for better schools, for better jobs, for better education, and better health care. And you rejected Donald Trump's fear, hatred and bigotry.


NJ GOV.-ELECT PHIL MURPHY: This is one of the first major election since Donald Trump was elected. Tonight, New Jersey sent an unmistakable message to the entire nation. We are better than this.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: This was a rejection not only of President Trump but of the policies that he and the Republican Party seem to be adopting.


PERINO: President Trump sees it otherwise. Thou he was unable to help draw more votes for Virginia Republican Ed Gillespie, he tweeted, Gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what I stand for. Don't forget Republicans won 4 out of 4 house seats. And with the economy doing record numbers we will continue to win even bigger than before. So let me clarify. I know, Greg, I didn't burp at the beginning. It's like sometimes you have to swallow before you talk, but then all of a sudden like we're on and I was like, oh, my gosh.


GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Just lack of professionalism.

PERINO: Pretty much.

GUTFELD: There're people who tune in for real TV, and here you burp and then pretend.


PERINO: We'll start with real analysis, and we'll go to Kimberly first.


KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Really, Greg, you should learn something from.

GUTFELD: I'm done.

GUILFOYLE: So, obviously, this is a bit of an upset, right? Because there was -- yes, he was down I think 3 percent, but it's within the margin of error. So you thought, OK. Maybe he could pull it out because he had the momentum. OK. Then he got the endorsement from President Trump. You've got to be honest this was, you know, disappointing because they really hoped to kind of turn this around. When you look at the map, you saw, wow, red, red, red, red, red. But some of the bigger cities and those urban areas, the suburbs, we've seen that happen, right? In New York, et cetera, where you've got a few key places, cities that are more urban that actually pull in the large majority of votes despite the fact that the whole rest of the map was red. So fascinating from that point because we've seen a bit of a trend, you know, in that direction, and we certainly did in the presidential election. And then I thought it was kind of interesting what Trump, kind of, backed away a little bit. Well, you weren't enough like I am, so therefore you didn't get it across the finish line.

PERINO: Well, there's a lot of analysis going back and forth on that. What do you think of it?

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I don't necessarily believe the Trump tweet, but it was great spin. I'll give him that. I think a Democrat won a blue state last night. No time to panic, but there are some serious warning signs there.

GUILFOYLE: You're wearing a blue tie today.

WATTERS: I know. Well, I'm just playing mind games with the left.


WATTERS: So, and we'll be going to the screen fest later when they're all yelling and how angry they are about the election. I want to be undercover. So, look at Virginia. I don't think the last three presidential elections a Republican has won that state. There's a lot of government employees there, a larger Hispanic population, and very wealthy zip codes. Virginia was never Trump country. Donald Trump eked out the primary win over Rubio, and then lost it by 5 points to Hillary Clinton. The new Virginia governor as Greg pointed put the other day is a two-time George W. Bush voter, not a member of the resistance, and a navy veteran. And the Democrats have not won anything in red territory yet. Let's be honest. This was not on enemy territory. This was their home turf. And so, let's pump the brakes on the Dem wave.

At the same time, I think in 2008 or '09 when Obama was in the same position, Republicans had won New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Virginia, so let's just slow down. Now there are warning signs, Trumps approval rating in Virginia, 40 percent. That's not very good. Turnout among Democrats was very, very high, and it was an anti-Trump vote. It wasn't a pro- Northam vote. And they did very well as Kimberly said, the Democrats among suburban people, especially, college educated white, especially, college educated women. And the Republicans got trounced in the state legislature races, which mean the grassroots movement is there. There is a concern though and here it is. Remember how Obama did so well when he was on the ticket, but then when he was off the ticket he got trounced? So the warning signs, because of Trump's loyal base, and he's a persona driven movement that when he's not there in a midterm or an off-year election, the people aren't going to turn out and it's going to be an anti-Trump vote instead.

PERINO: But part of that though, Greg, was because Obama pretty much didn't worry about it. He just let the party kind of do it. He was like the party of one. And that's one of the reasons that they had to claw their way back.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I think this is completely natural, the pendulum swing. We saw this under Obama. The opposition is always more galvanized when they are out of power. They have every reason to go out there and vote. And it's more exciting to vote for President Obama that his party, and it was more exciting to vote for Donald Trump that his party. So that's what you see. You need a focal point which was president Obama and Donald Trump. But it's oddly -- it's like a natural set of checks and balances. You elect this guy, Donald Trump, and then you let the other side gained seats by not voting. It's almost unconsciously some kind of evolutionary reflex that we crave the tension between parties. We want to have this guy in, but we don't want to go too far so we almost unconsciously decide not to put anything out there until we have to. So you get this weird kind of balance.

But I want to talk about just one more thing. If Ed Gillespie had won, Juan would have said this was a harbinger of bitter, hateful campaign. But now these ugly ads that go after sanctuary cities laws, this is going to be the norm because Ed Gillespie won. Ralph won. That's an ominous sign that bitter, hateful identity, political politics ad, because that ad that we trashed works. The ad that portrayed white people -- white Republicans as racist who killed children, it actually worked. When Tom Perez talks about fear, hatred, and bigotry, he's talking about his own party. This should send a chill up everybody's spine, if you still got a spine, that this is dangerous stuff. The company that did that ad already claimed they're going to double down -- I hate that phrase. But they're going to double down. So the idea that somehow, you know, they did something really, really ugly and it worked.

PERINO: I think that they would have done that ad against Ed even if he had not run ads about MS-13.


PERINO: Because I think that that is -- that they'll probably will. They'll try to run that play again and again. Juan, I will give you the floor here in a second. I just want to point out that married women had gone for President Trump in Virginia by a point over. Ralph Northam won married women by ten points over Gillespie. But still Gillespie got 120,000 more Republican votes in 2017, than he did in 2014 when he ran for the senate. So it was a high turnout election all across the board, but the Democrats certainly had a lot more votes.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: They did have a lot more votes. You know, to me, it has all the markings of a wave election, going back if you look what happened in '06 when the Democrats took over the House of Representatives. And you then go forward.

PERINO: I remember that.

WILLIAMS: You remember that. Well, to 10, when the Republicans took over the house from the Democrats. And so what we saw in both cases is very similar what we saw here in Virginia, but nationwide last night. And so, then you look at things like now the generic number in terms of preference, Republicans, Democrats, for the House of Representatives is double digit at the moment for the Democrats. And then factor in what Greg was talking about in terms of Trump's approval rating at the moment, I think, Gallup is about 38 percent. This does not help, especially when you consider historically.

GUTFELD: I object you said that.

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. OK.

GUTFELD: We've two different people, Juan.


GUILFOYLE: Not to him.

WATTERS: We all look alike, Juan?


WILLIAMS: When you consider that when you -- the president who's in power is not popular, it historically hurts in the midterms. Now, I think the big points that I took away from last night, the big issue was not immigration. Not at all. The big issue, number one issue, health care. Not even close. Forty percent of voters say it was their number one issue. And they favored Northam, the Democrat, by 55 percent. Wow. Now you factor in what happened in Maine where you had Maine voters go against their governor and say, you know what, we want to expand Medicaid. Oh, my gosh. This is the first time that Obamacare has been expanded by a general referendum, if you will, general vote of the people. And again, it says a lot about what could be the big issues going into '18. And the other thing I would throw in here is that for the Democrat, the reason they're so exuberant, is they can now -- they're going to see a boost in fund-raising, in candidates. Ray Ben Lujan, who runs the house Democratic election caucus -- he's saying, you know what, I'm calling people all night, people are calling me back. That's unbelievable. All of a sudden Democrats who have been lagging find that they have some energy. So I think this is good news.

PERINO: Can I bring in somebody who was not on the ballot but was on people's minds, and it's Hillary Clinton who said that last night was a great reminder of what's possible when we come together and fight for what we believe in. So I wanted to take a few minutes to celebrate the extraordinary successes of a few groups, I and arm together, proudly fight alongside. And yet, Kimberly, what do you think about because she's not -- I think that the Democrats are little bit more liberated now that they don't have her as a candidate.

GUILFOYLE: Albatross hanging, choking the very life out of the neck of the party. Yeah. I mean, of course she's trying like -- you know, boot strap on to this and say, you know, this is a movement.


GUILFOYLE: Like she's the face of it. Look what happened now. Talking about it.

GUTFELD: Rosie Ruiz of politics.


GUTFELD: As the marathon was ending, she's pretending she's leading the parade.

GUILFOYLE: It's unbelievable. But people see through it. They see through it. So, OK, she wants to be -- get some congratulations. But this really doesn't have anything to do with her.

WILLIAMS: No, it's all about Trump. I mean, I don't know if that's good news to you guys, but it's kind of curious because.

PERINO: Good news in some places.

WILLIAMS: What do you mean?

PERINO: Well, I think Virginia is a tough place for a Republican going forward. I do think, as Jesse asked me before, is it no longer a purple state. And I think it is, like Virginia is a blue state.


WATTERS: So de Blasio won the mayor race in New York.

GUTFELD: Seventy five percent of the people didn't vote.

WATTERS: A Democrat won in New Jersey. I mean, everyone was surprised when Chris Christie won there. It's a blue state, Juan. Virginia is blue. Don't get too excited about the wave, Juan. It's still right now a little trickle.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say this. I think when you look at the map that Kimberly was describing you see all that red in the middle. And these are mostly.

PERINO: Because they're more rural. There's not that many people that live there.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Let's put it that way.


WILLIAMS: But I will say this that 60 percent of the people who voted said they had a negative in Virginia, negative impression of GOP. And 60 percent said they had a negative impression of, guess who, Donald Trump.


WATTERS: And yeah, Democratic Party approval rating is at a historic low.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. It's not good either.

WATTERS: -- in the 30s, Juan. You guys aren't doing that great either.

PERINO: We've got to run, but let's all keep an eye on Governor Terry McAuliffe because he felt pretty good last night, I think. So President Trump won the White House exactly one year ago today. Greg gives an annual review next.


GUTFELD: It's been one year since Donald Trump was elected. According to leftists, the world should have already ended: stock market crash; America becomes a pariah; Paul Krugman bursts into a cloud of hot, powdery dust. This was our destiny.

Well, sorry, guys. It hasn't panned out. Stock market climbs, joblessness drops, pipeline proceed, ISIS piles up like firewood, regulations rolled back, Paris accord nixed, China is playing ball with North Korea. Still, the left marks this day with an event called "Screen Helplessly at the sky on the anniversary of the election." Here's tape of them warming up.




GUTFELD: So is this an adult response? No. Can you think of a time when you marked a loss with a tantrum after age 4? I remember elections where my guy lost, but I got on with my life. Why can't these folks do that? Because they made politics a bigger part of their lives than it should be. They made the political personal. Sadly, once politics trumps everything, it's all because these people lack real friends and healthy relationships with their own families. Instead of fun they fret. Instead of laughing they lament. They're miserable.

Look at sports, entertainment, friendship: When politics intrudes, it devours. It replaces joy with anger. Look what happened to the NFL. It used to be fun. The key to life is realizing that life goes on with or without politics. And that person you hate politically might be more like you than you might think. Admitting that is part of growing up, which sadly doesn't always accompany growing old.

Juan, I know you're distraught that the world has not ended under the greatest president we've ever had, Donald Trump. Would you admitted to in the break you said, Greg, I have to admit he is the greatest president we've ever had.

GUILFOYLE: I heard that.

WILLIAMS: Yes, that's me. I'm always like turning around on a dime. Because this guy said it would be great if Greg Gutfeld was president. He'd be the greatest president ever.

GUTFELD: That is true.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. So you would be much better than the guy whose ratings are the lowest in the history of any president.

GUTFELD: Does it matter to you? You can vote for somebody you don't like.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know. I'm just telling you that he's not a popular president.

GUTFELD: No. But a lot of people don't like their bosses but still realize their boss is effective.


WILLIAMS: Well, but I don't know that they realize that, because what.


WILLIAMS: You know, this first year it seems to me is Trump played to resentment, to grievance, to identity politics. I mean, when you are talking about NFL. I thought, NFL, who made this into this big, divisive issue? Oh, Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Colin Kaepernick.

WILLIAMS: How about, you know, we were talking about immigration in the Virginia race, right? That it was not a big issue. Health care was a big issue. But it turns out that in that last week when that big controversial ad that you mentioned was running, guess what, it was about 20 percent of the electorate made their decision as to who to vote for. And overwhelmingly, they went to the Democrat, who said last night in his acceptance speech Virginia is going to be open, accepting of people and not bitter. I think he was talking about Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: Well, maybe.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, listen, let's talk about effectiveness and talk about numbers that matter. Not the other side's opinion of whether he's into identity politics. I mean, you know, I think the other side is far more guilty of that. When you look at the job numbers with President Trump, those numbers are up in a favorable way. Our Trade with Canada, Mexico, of exports from the United States is up. When you look at all the things that he's accomplishing with national security, and foreign policy, with ISIS being beaten down to a pulp, these are the type of things that I think should matter. That people should be happy about it and say, OK, let's be fair in our analysis and look at the actual cold, hard facts and statistics of what actually transpired since he became president versus whether or not, you know, he suits your fancy.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Personality is not everything. Don't you know it, Jesse.


GUTFELD: Tonight, I don't know if I should tell you, but you're going to the screaming event. We're not going to say where.

WATTERS: In an unknown location, Gutfeld.


WATTERS: Thank you for ruining the surprise.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, you're undercover. No one will notice.

WATTERS: Yeah, I know. I know. But I didn't want to remind everybody that I also blew it.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: Leave that to me.

GUILFOYLE: It's complicated.

WATTERS: Thank you, Gutfeld. You know, I prepared for this segment by giving the president a grade. I'm giving him a B plus. And I think he's had a great year. I definitely think there's been some self-inflicted wounds and there's some room for improvement. National security and foreign affairs I give him an A-minus.


WATTERS: He rallied the world around North Korea. He's getting us out of these bad climate and trade deals. Iran is on notice. Syria got the message. NATO is now ponying up some of their money. And he's forged a lot of great relationships with these world leaders. And the mid-east trips, European trips, and Asian trips I think have been seamless, and he's given great speeches on each one. Domestic policy, I'll give him about a B, B-minus, maybe. A lot of self-inflicted wounds there. Obamacare repeal didn't happen. The tax cuts, you know how I feel about that. Not looking great on that point too. We have dramatic staff shake-ups weren't really necessary. That caused a lot of drama. And then, obviously, the Comey deal causes a major, major problem if something bad happens there. But also, the good side, Gorsuch, you have MS-13 being decimated. Border crossings are down, the wall prototypes are up and being tested. Mexico will still pay for it, by the way.


WATTERS: Manufacturing and mining jobs are up. GDP growth on pace for 3 percent this year. Under Obama, it never hit 3 percent any year.

WILLIAMS: That's not true. It hit 5 percent.

WATTERS: Five percent? What planet are you on?

WILLIAMS: A quarter. You're talking about a quarter.


WATTERS: Look, can I finish? There's some intangibles.



WATTERS: I think Charlottesville really hurt his brand. But besides that, the intangibles when he's fighting the culture war when it comes to kneeling or when it comes to political correctness. I think the tweeting is great, 90 percent of it. I think he's hilarious especially when he acts like a boss and puts people in their place. So, all and all, I think solid B-plus.

GUTFELD: All right. Anything else you want to add?


GUILFOYLE: We're out of time.

PERINO: We're out of time. I would just say, voting in droves is a lot more effective than shouting at the sky, and that's what they did in Virginia last night. And I think if they -- the Democrats can figure out a way to keep that going, then, yeah, there's problem. And even if you don't like him and you could be supportive of all of those things, if you look at some of these dates that are changing, the Electoral College will not save you in 2018. And it's really important for him for all sorts of reasons to want to have the house and the senate kept in Republican hands. The other thing I think that could hurt the Democrats is endless talk of impeachment and impending impeachment. And Representative Al Green of Texas, today, was on the floor promising a vote on impeachment by Christmas. I think if you want to -- or if the Democrats want to erase their enthusiasm gap, then they should keep talking about that because that will generate enthusiasm amongst Republicans.

GUTFELD: I think the Democrats might use impeachment the way the Republicans uses -- use Obamacare. Talk and talk and talk. And when they get to that point just go.


GUTFELD: Just kidding. I can't give him a grade without the tax stuff. I can give him an A on foreign policy. If the tax bill bad he gets an F on that, and that's a C.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, you're one of those graders.

GUTFELD: Yes, I am. Donna Brazile now insists the Democratic primary wasn't rigged for Hillary after she proclaimed it was. If you're confused, you're not alone. Next.


GUILFOYLE: former DNC chair Donna Brazile is making the rounds to plug her new memoir. You can catch her on Tucker's show tonight at 8:00 PM Eastern, and with Dana.



PERINO: Next week.

GUILFOYLE: Well, she's going to be on with you.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Perhaps we can get to the bottom of why she's been backtracking on her own claims that the 2016 primary was rigged in Hillary Clinton's favor.


DONNA BRAZILE: I did not say the process was rigged. I said I want to find out.

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: But then you said you came back -- you said proof of it being rigged.

BRAZILE: I've said, no. Really, I've got little St. Anthony here, honey. And I said I would get to the bottom of whether or not Hillary's team had rigged the party process in her favor. I believe it was a fair fight because ultimately the voters decided.


GUILFOYLE: Well, Brazile did however had some choice words for the Clinton campaign today.


UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Why did they lose? Was it, at the end of the day, arrogance?

BRAZILE: Yes, Joe. It was a cult. I felt like it was a cult. You could not penetrate them.


GUILFOYLE: All right. So what do you make of it? I like the honey too.

GUTFELD: If she doesn't remember saying rigged, then she's like me. She drinks while she writes, or still writes it. Because it was -- she did say it was rigged, right?

WATTERS: I thought so.

GUTFELD: Anyway, I think she should have run. She's far more interesting and entertaining and more blunt than any of the candidates they had, when you listen to her. I think she could have been -- she could have been a pretty strong adversary to Trump.

The thing is, the Democratic Party is a cat with a hair ball in its throat, and they're trying to cough it up. It's the Clinton hair ball. For that cat to move on and eat a nice meal, it's got to dislodge that hairball.

And she's right. It was a cult. Do you -- it was a -- do you remember Chelsea's nauseating speech at the DNC, as if she was speaking down to all the little people, and it was very slow. It was like the audience...

GUILFOYLE: It was so bad we couldn't even talk about it the next day?

GUTFELD: She was speaking to them like they were dropped as children, like they had problems. It was just -- it was very cult-like to me. And I think she was -- I think she was right, Donna Brazile. I think she should have run. Maybe 2020.

PERINO: Well, people have tried to get her to run for years in Washington, D.C., like for mayor or...

GUILFOYLE: Phenomenal.

PERINO: ... for something, and she resists, because she always liked to work on campaigns. But I'm looking forward to Tucker's interview today, because he's known her for years, as well. And he has -- I think he'll be able to ask some questions that will be new and different that you haven't seen so far.

GUTFELD: I hope so. Tucker's like that.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's -- I can't wait to see the faces he's going to make. It's going to...

GUTFELD: He doesn't make any faces. He just -- his face just goes...

PERINO: I hope she calls him "honey."

WATTERS: Can't wait to see the face he makes when she calls him "honey."

GUILFOYLE: He'll like it. He'll smile. He goes with it. He's not...

GUTFELD: Then he'll say, "Thanks for coming on."

GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly.

WATTERS: I have really grown to like Donna Brazile. I'm liking everything she's saying, everything she's writing. I hope she writes a whole series about this, and I might even buy one out of my own pocket.

GUILFOYLE: Gator (ph) arms over here.

WATTERS: I think she's backing off...

GUILFOYLE: You're like, "Oh!"

WATTERS: I learned it from the best.

I think she's backing off the rigged thing, because it makes Hillary look even more crooked than she already is, and it makes the Democratic brand look corrupt. So she's going to be as honest as she can possibly be without destroying the brand going down.

But there's another great bombshell in this thing, I thought.

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.

WATTERS: So the FBI says, "Hey, DNC I.T. guy, you guys got hacked."

The I.T. guy turns on the computer and he goes, "No, we're good." Doesn't tell anybody. And then the FBI calls them, like, five more times and he goes, "Guys, you've been hacked."

Finally, they get someone with authority, and they go, "Oh, you know what? We're not going to do anything about it until the primaries are over." So they waited months while these hackers were inside their server doing God knows what.

Finally, Debbie Wasserman Schultz finds out.


WATTERS: She goes, "Oh, you know, it's too bad." Doesn't tell anybody. Doesn't hand over the server. It makes perfect sense now why she didn't hand over the server, and she didn't know why her own I.T. guy was running around doing God knows what.

The whole thing stinks. It's like you go on vacation and your neighbor calls you and goes, "Hey, you guys were just burglarized." And then you wait until you come back from vacation to call the cops. It's like they didn't even care.

GUILFOYLE: Who ignores something like that, Juan? When the FBI goes, "Hello? Computer intrusion. You've been hacked." And you don't do anything about it. That's very bizarre.

WILLIAMS: But you know, we know -- this has been out -- this story has been out for a year or so. Believe me.

GUILFOYLE: We're going to keep talking about it.

WILLIAMS: Everybody knows about this. But what was interesting from...

PERINO: They call it a bombshell.

WATTERS: It works with me.

WILLIAMS: OK. But what was interesting, from Donna's perspective, is she said she went to the White House, and there's Eric Holder, the attorney general, saying, "Hey, you know, the DNC is not reacting."

There's Susan Rice, the national security advisor, saying, "Hey, you know, you've got a problem over there."

And she said, you know, when she got the call from Debbie Wasserman Schultz, because she was a member of the Democratic Committee, so Wasserman Schultz was informing everybody, she said Wasserman Schultz was rather nonchalant about it, big deal.

Listen, I think Donna still -- when she speaks about a cult, she's not speaking about Hillary Clinton. She's talking about the campaign. She's talking about the people who ran the campaign. She's talking about the people, you know, beginning with Podesta but going through the campaign manager that did not respect her and didn't respond to her. And I think she feels like...

PERINO: And that if you weren't in Brooklyn, you are no one. So if you think about that campaign manager for Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin who's calling over and over again, saying, "We need more resources." And Brooklyn says, "No, no, actually, we're looking at our database here, and everything looks fine for you. So we're good."

WILLIAMS: Yes, and so I think that's just evidence of people who get locked in and aren't in touch.

And the thing about Donna Brazile, for those of us who know her, is Donna's got great instincts. I mean, Donna gets out there and she's on the ground. She organizes and she works.

GUILFOYLE: Well, she's well-liked, too, by people on both sides. Whatever your...

WILLIAMS: Let me just finish on this point, Kimberly.


WILLIAMS: She's not well-liked at the moment by Democrats, because they feel as if she has played -- and especially leading up into the big races yesterday, they were worried about turnout. They think she's basically played into all of the Russian Republican argument. Oh, Democrats in disarray. You know, it didn't play out that way.

GUTFELD: You know who else is unhappy with her? Cults. I mean, she really insulted the cult world by comparing the Democrats to a cult. I think she owes all cults an apology, including my own, the unicorn cult.

WILLIAMS: I think Tucker should ask her about whether or not she was going to appoint Joe Biden as the nominee.

GUTFELD: Well, that's a good question.

GUILFOYLE: That would've been a good idea.

WILLIAMS: Because there was no -- she doesn't have the power to do that.


OK, reminder to please catch Donna Brazile on "Tucker Carlson Tonight" at 8 p.m. Eastern. Much more to come on "The Five." Stay ahead (ph).


WILLIAMS: One of the victims of these Texas massacre on Sunday was an expectant mother, Crystal Holcombe. One reporter covering the shooting is getting some attention for a comment she made while telling Holcombe's story.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her granddaughter-in-law, Crystal Holcombe, she was pregnant. She died inside this church behind me. Not only her and her unborn child but three of her children.

And today during this press conference, we learned that her unborn child is included in that count of 26 dead here at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. So news out of that press conference, it's 25 and an unborn child, or a fetus, if you will.


WILLIAMS: So the controversy here, I guess, is not about the facts. Obviously, Ms. Holcombe was pregnant and died. And the child or the fetus died. But the argument is about the language.

So Dana, how would you handle this? I mean, obviously, people who are pro- life are saying, "Well, she said unborn child," but then I wonder if some producer in her ear said, "Well, we don't want to use that kind of charged language, because it's politicized. Just say 'fetus'."

PERINO: Well, I wouldn't criticize her necessarily, but I would say that it's important. These are decisions made by state governments. So the federal government doesn't have a position on this. This is a crime that took place in Texas. And in Texas, a fetus is considered a child. It is a life.

And so if, for example, there was a -- Kimberly, correct me if I'm wrong. But let's just say that a pregnant mother, she's driving down the highway. She gets hit by a drunk driver, and it was reckless endangerment and she lives but the baby dies. That would in Texas and in many other states, including Virginia, that child would be counted as a life that passed away.

So it varies by state. When I do think is interesting is that, just take the laws away from it. If that woman had survived but her baby had died, she would have believed that her baby was killed.


PERINO: OK, so I think that you also have to think -- it's not just the laws, but it's about the mother and the father and what they think about and hope and dream for when their child is going to be born in however many months it's going to be born. They celebrate the moment they find out that they're pregnant.

WILLIAMS: So Kimberly, the people who are pro-choice say, "Hey, wait a second. So where are you going with this?" In fact, there was a bill being considered in the Congress, and you have Republicans saying that the minute you have a heartbeat, that heartbeat then constitutes a life. What do you say? ] GUILFOYLE: Well, I'd say that I'd follow the law, and the law in the state of Texas, as it stands for this woman and her children and her unborn child was murdered, is fertilization to actual birth is considered a life.

WILLIAMS: Is that right? Fertilization?



GUILFOYLE: In Texas, twice the Texas court of appeals has upheld this for double homicide. A murder conviction of a man who killed a pregnant woman and her unborn child. And that's the language on it. So that's what the law is.

Now, to take Dana's hypothetical, if that woman had driven across state lines in a car and then was killed by a drunk driver in a different state that didn't honor that, it would not be charged in that state. And that's the law and the way it stands today.

WILLIAMS: So Jesse, one of the things also being considered in the Congress is that an unborn child or a fetus, whatever you want to say, would be eligible for a college savings plan. What do you think of this?

WATTERS: I think that's a great idea. I think college is so expensive that it makes perfect sense. But obviously, there's some people like Planned Parenthood that don't want this, because you put that language in statutory terms, then that establishes life in a bill when it comes to tax purposes and the treasury. And they don't want anything going close to that. Because for them, that is a very slippery slope.

But you hit the nail on the head, Juan. It's all about language. Just reading this article here, they don't even use the phrase "pro-life" anymore when describing these groups. They call them "antiabortion groups." So it's all disguised in the way you describe these people and the language that's used to characterize people from a certain position, sometimes fairly and sometimes unfairly. But that's what you're saying. I believe some pro-choice women would like to start saving for college while they're pregnant. I don't know why it's being so politicized.

WILLIAMS: But Greg, I think part of the argument here is you're going to start defining life in a tax bill. And by the way, in the same tax bill, they take away the tax credit for adoption. So what is going on?

GUTFELD: Yes, I don't understand that part at all. But we're not just -- the reason why we're distorting language is because we're politicizing life.

We live in a war between reality and politics. In reality, the human is alive until you abort it. You know that. It's dead. Politically, it's your choice, your right to choose. So you take something that is real and then you turn it into something political.

These sides, the real and the political, they run parallel. They never cross, but they can. And every now and then, you will run into a pro- choicer -- you run into this more often than you used to, and I call it the honest pro-choicer. "I'm pro-choice, even though I know it's murder."

You see this a lot now. If you watch Louis C.K.'s Netflix comedy, he opens with this. And it is -- it's like people, they're beginning to understand, because science...

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Science is showing you that you are preventing a life. And then the pro-choicer has to make the decision, "Well, I know that, and I'm still going to make this decision." Honest pro-choice.

Then you have to have the honest pro-lifer. The honest pro-lifer that says, "If I believe this is murder, what is that worth?" What is that worth? Slavery caused the Civil War.

That's -- I mean, both sides have to contend with the ugly realities of their stances. And the -- but the fact is, all this comes down to everybody kind of knows what it is.


GUTFELD: It's how you live with it.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know that everybody agrees with you on this.

GUTFELD: Everybody does, Juan.

WILLIAMS: There's are lots of people...

GUTFELD: Everybody.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Yes, I heard.

WILLIAMS: There are people -- there are people who...

GUTFELD: Read science books.

WILLIAMS: ... in terms of the language, who favor the death penalty. Right? And you say, well, what is that about? Or...

GUTFELD: I don't know how I am on the death penalty.

WILLIAMS: All right. Anyway, fasten your seat belts.


WILLIAMS: President Trump now has twice the room to vent at us all on Twitter. The social media shake-up everybody is talking and tweeting about next.


WATTERS: If you checked out Twitter over the past 24 hours, you might have noticed there's a lot more to read. The social networking giant has officially doubled it signature 140-character limit to 280 for more users. That includes President Trump.

A lot of mixed feelings about the decision.

Gutfeld, I know you've been percolating over this.

GUTFELD: This is a case where more creates less. Diminishing returns. And, you know, you're obliterating the initial charm, which is it's supposed to be short and sweet.

It's like candy corn. You have three or four pieces of candy corn, that's enough. But if you eat a bag, you're going to vomit.

You know the worst part, they've got to get rid of...

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

GUTFELD: They've got to get rid of the blue checkers. You know, the people like me who have a blue check against their name? Because that gives them this entitlement that you must...

GUILFOYLE: It's a verified account.

GUTFELD: I don't care. Verified this.

GUILFOYLE: It means it's authentic.

GUTFELD: No, they sit there and -- people with blue checks think that they're more important than everybody else. You must respond to them. I mute almost every blue checker that keeps...

WATTERS: You have a blue check!

GUTFELD: I don't want one!

WATTERS: All right. You're going to uncheck yourself?

GUILFOYLE: It just means verified.

GUTFELD: No, I'm not, because unfortunately, it was foisted on me by those weirdoes at Twitter.

WATTERS: All right.

GUTFELD: They're trying to make money off this.

WATTERS: William Shakespeare famously said, Dana, brevity is the soul of wit.

PERINO: I agree. I used to love it when you could see somebody get a really great thought into 140 characters. I find it less interesting, looking at this. People using lots more words to say what they could have said in 140.

GUILFOYLE: Two-fers.

WATTERS: What does this do for the president?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know whether if delights him or not. Maybe we'll know tomorrow.

PERINO: He was good at 140. He was better at 140 Twitter.

WATTERS: I agree.

GUILFOYLE: He was good at that. "Sad!" exclamation point.

PERINO: Funny. Now it can't be funny anymore.

WATTERS: Juan, have you seen Twitter since this has happened?

WILLIAMS: Not since it's happened.

WATTERS: Good, because there's a lot of bad stuff about you out there.

WILLIAMS: I know. I don't look. I don't look.

GUTFELD: Twice as much.

WILLIAMS: I must say, I was surprised. I want to check with you guys. It said only 9 percent of people who tweet ever get to 140 words.

GUTFELD: I think it's open to everybody.

WATTERS: All right.

PERINO: Most people don't -- he's saying most people don't even need -- don't even use 140.

GUILFOYLE: They're setting a trap for President Trump.

GUTFELD: Trump is in trouble. Twitter is in trouble.

GUILFOYLE: They're setting a trap for him.

WATTERS: Twitter is in trouble. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUTFELD: That's what's happened.


PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Greg

GUTFELD: I've got a great podcast. You go to FOXNewsPodcast.com. It's with the great John Stossel. Stossel, Stossel, Stossel. Anyway, check it out. It's time for this.


GUTFELD: Greg's Joy of Communication


GUTFELD: A lot of people complain about cable news and cross talk on cable news. Nothing beats this. This is "The Rubin Report" by my buddy, Dave Rubin. He had two guests on. And -- well, just watch how it went.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's exactly what I said.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He started the rumors.


DAVE RUBIN, HOST, "THE RUBIN REPORT": Hold on. Guys, guys. Hold on. You've got to give me a chance to moderate this thing. Otherwise, we're just going to be crosstalk...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Moderate. Moderate.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's exactly what I said.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He started the rumors.


RUBIN: Hold on. Ladies, ladies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Own it. It doesn't matter.


GUTFELD: You have to -- that went on for an hour. You have to watch this. It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. "The Rubin Report's" a great podcast. Check it out.

PERINO: All righty. K.G.

GUILFOYLE: OK, last night I had the great pleasure of attending a charity group that I work with, very near and dear to my heart. The New York Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children. There I am with Ainsley and Cheryl Casone, my good friend Danielle Yancy.

And the NYSPCC, as I've talked about on this show before, is the nation's oldest child abuse prevention agency, and we raised a lot of money last night for the trauma recovery program, which involves specialized therapies for young children who have experienced abuse in various forms. It's a great night, a wonderful cause. Mary Polito is fantastic, the director. And also Deborah Norville, a good friend of mine, moderated it.


GUILFOYLE: Metropolitan. Very, very nice.


PERINO: All right. Juan.

WILLIAMS: So while President Trump has been in Asia promoting his New Jersey golf course, a different kind of corporate news coming from T.J. Maxx.

Hurricane Maria, as you know, destroyed much of Puerto Rico and forced the stores there to close. But T.J. Maxx's CEO, Ernie Herrman, has continued paying -- giving paychecks to his island-based employees, saying it's the right thing to do. Unfortunately, as you know, more than half of the island still without power. Clean water still scarce. But with Christmas shopping coming up, hats off to a compassionate capitalist like the boss at T.J. Maxx.

GUILFOYLE: God bless. Very nice.

PERINO: All right. I have a podcast, too, with Chris Stirewalt. It's "I'll Tell You What," and we will post that tonight. There's no crosstalk.

GUTFELD: No crosstalk.

PERINO: Good. So this is a story you might have heard about. A man in Utah walking every single day with a sign that reads "Need a Kidney for Wife." Well, it has a happy ending. Wayne Winter's wife, Deanne, is going to receive a kidney transplant after two years of waiting. He says he's had lots and lots of calls. It was actually somebody who had passed away who was an organ donor that is going to provide the kidney for his wife.

But he said he's been so overwhelmed with gratitude for all the calls that he is going to keep walking and start a kidney revolution. A loving husband.

GUILFOYLE: What a doll.

PERINO: I know.


WATTERS: I kind of feel like a loser. I don't have a podcast. Does everybody have a podcast?

GUTFELD: You don't need a podcast to feel that way.

GUILFOYLE: Also, you sort of do it here anyway.

WATTERS: Thank you, Kimberly. You would not be invited on my podcast.

All right. So the Internet is going crazy over a video. Donald Trump played golf with the Japanese prime minister. There they are on the cart. But there's some speculation. Did the Japanese prime minister fall into a bunker when he was trying to hit out of a sand trap?

So there's President Trump walking. He's obviously on the fairway. I mean, come on -- the guy owns tons -- there he goes.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WATTERS: The Japanese prime minister, some people think -- other people don't know if it's actually him or not. But someone in the group fell down while they were getting out of the bunker. And people are very, very upset about this. Or they're laughing. But I think he's OK, whoever he is.

GUILFOYLE: Showed kind of agility.

WATTERS: It is a nice recovery.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, yes.

PERINO: Like stop, tuck and roll.

WATTERS: That's what you've got to do.

PERINO: And also we did a Facebook Live before the show. It's on my page, may be your page.

GUTFELD: I'll tweet it, too.

PERINO: Featuring mostly Greg and a little bit of Jesse.

GUILFOYLE: From your verified account?

WATTERS: Greg wouldn't let me talk. That's why I had to talk a lot tonight in the "A" block.

WILLIAMS: Was that the reason?

PERINO: That's right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.