Democrats balk at outside counsel for Kavanaugh hearing

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Democrats balk at outside counsel for Kavanaugh hearing

Sources tell Fox News that Senate Judiciary Committee Republicans have hired a female prosecutor who specializes in sex crimes in preparation to hear Christine Blasey Ford's testimony; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 25, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JEANINE PIRRO, GUEST CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Judge Jeanine Pirro along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Kennedy, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

President Trump unleashing on Democrats in his fiercest support yet of his Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I can tell you that false accusation and false accusations of all types are made against a lot of people. This is a high quality person, and I certainly hope, I certainly -- it would be a horrible insult to our country if this doesn't happen. And it will be a horrible, horrible thing for future political people, or judges, anything you want. It would be a horrible thing. It cannot be allowed to happen. And the Democrats are playing a con game, C- O-N. A con game. They know it's a con game.

The accuser has nothing. The second accuser doesn't even know -- she thinks maybe it could have been him, maybe not. She admits that she was drunk. She admits time lapses. He's startled. He can't believe this is happening. His wife is devastated. His children are devastated. I don't mean they're like, oh, gee, I'm a little unhappy. They're devastated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: Meanwhile, senate Democrats are continuing to prove that the facts don't matter with a new wave of smears against Kavanaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, D-MINN.: The second thing about that interview is when he said that he actually downplayed his drinking, and he said he never really blacked out so he didn't remember things. I mean, those are things that really go to credibility given some of the stories circulating out there.

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D-N.Y.: I've heard from both sides and I believe Dr. Blasey Ford, and I believe Ms. Ramirez, both of their stories are credible, unlike his. When he wouldn't actually answer the question or say why he wouldn't be interviewed by the FBI. That's not the response of someone who wants to plead his innocence.

SEN. CHRIS COONS, D-DEL.: It is Judge Kavanaugh who is seeking a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court, and who, I think, now, bears the burden of disproving these allegations rather than Dr. Ford and Ms. Ramirez, who should be dismissed with slanderous accusations.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PIRRO: All right. Greg, I'm going to start with you. I think you're a good place to start. All right. Look, they are throwing out the fundamental principles of the criminal justice system and that is the right of confrontation, the right of cross-examination. These are United States senators. They've already made up their mind. They've heard from her, they've heard from him. So what's the point of having courtrooms and trials in this country? Shouldn't we just decide if we like someone ahead of time?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah. You know what's interesting is that they're being honest about it now, both Coons and Mazie Hirano, both have formulated a fairly chilling response when you ask about due process. They go, this isn't a court of law. You don't need a due process. It's like -- you know what? They're right. They're basically admitting that we can crucify you without evidence or any kind of corroboration because let's keep it out of the court of law, and so you lose -- what you learn now is you lose your rights if you're up for a job. So my solution is everybody needs to get accusation insurance because right now.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: No, it's true because right now, what they're saying is.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: It's called go fund me.

GUTFELD: You're going to need allegation insurance. And the thing is, one last point, judge, because I know you want to move on, we, as human beings, we mimic behavior, if you look at fashion, if you look at diet, you look at social media, we copy each other. This kind of behavior will spread. The exception of simply an allegation minus evidence is going to spread into other areas of our culture. It's already happening. You see it in the workplace. You see it in other places. How do we stop it?

PIRRO: OK. Kennedy, how do we stop it? But I'm not going to finish there. Look, what we've got is -- United States senators saying that he needs to disprove a negative. How do you disprove or prove a negative? He's got to disprove that he did this. If he wasn't there and he didn't do it, number one, how does he prove that? And number two, how can the United States senators shift the burden of proof? It's always on the complainant.

KENNEDY, CO-HOST: Well, it's actually really smart what her legal team is doing because they're coming up with a series of demands that are almost unmeetable. And so, essentially, when Republicans on the senate judiciary committee say we can't meet those because they don't meet the standard for, you know, the protocol in the senate, but also, I mean, that's how our criminal justice system, that's what it's based upon, which essentially follows from natural law. So you're turning all of that on its head and you can't disprove a negative.

PIRRO: Natural law, common-law, absolutely, and she's right. Kennedy is right, Jesse. But they're saying that she's not getting fair and respectful treatments. What say you about it?

WATTERS: I think the Democrats have been unfair and disrespectful throughout this whole process, to Kavanaugh with the smears and sandbagging. Listen, everything they've done has been political, the timing, the demands, the entourage surrounding this person. So you know what the Republicans said? They said OK. Let's take politics out of it. We're not going to question her. We're going to appoint an independent sex crimes prosecutor, female, who knows what she's talking about, and she will be the one to ask the questions, not the politicians. And then the Democrats turn around and scream and said this is unfair. This is going to create a circus. They've been the ones creating the circus here. And this type of person has been used before, in Watergate, in Iran contra, as well as mafia hearings, so there's nothing new to this.

PIRRO: Brining in an outside attorney.

WATTERS: Bringing in an outside attorney. There's nothing new to this. And the Democrats are just complaining because I don't believe that Ford will look good being questioned by a female experienced litigator with the story that she has. I think her story will not hold up well, and that's the reason the Democrats are upset about this.

PIRRO: All right. Now, Juan.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I haven't heard a word here that indicates -- because the judge starts out, I think, Democrats are smearing Judge Kavanaugh. I haven't heard a word of smear. But here's.

PIRRO: He's guilty. He's guilty. That is a smear.

WILLIAMS: Hold on. That's not a smear.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He's an attempted rapist, that's a smear.

WILLIAMS: Let me talk for a second and then you can respond.

WATTERS: Good.

WILLIAMS: But clearly, this is not a court. This is a senate confirmation hearing.

PIRRO: It's congress.

WILLIAMS: And you have an opportunity here for the judge to testify, to say whatever he wants.

WATTERS: Right.

WILLIAMS: Nobody has heard from Ms. Ford, yet.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The second thing to say -- hang on, Kennedy. The second thing to say here is they are bringing in a woman lawyer because they've got 11 men on the Republican side.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . and they are embarrassed.

PIRRO: They aren't embarrassed.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: They can win but that they've got to do is they've got to give her a fair opportunity. So what her lawyers have said is, hey, wait a second. We're not coming in here to be beaten up by somebody who is a criminal defense or criminal investigator. You refuse to even have the FBI investigate.

PIRRO: No. Well, let me ask you this, Juan. Let me ask you this. The rules are very simple.

WATTERS: Senators do not buy an experienced prosecutor.

WILLIAMS: They're the senators, why shouldn't they do the questioning?

PIRRO: Because they balked at it, Juan.

WILLIAMS: They refuse to have Mark Judge, this guy who is now hiding out, who says that he was involved with drinking escapades.

WATTERS: Because once you let one witness come in they're going to line up seven, or eight, or nine.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second.

WATTERS: . and then you're going to draw it out until November.

WILLIAMS: Jesse, you said a minute ago why are they're rushing this? What's going on?

WATTERS: Wait a second. The only reason why it's being rushed is because Feinstein delayed it for a whole month and a half.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Jesse, and I can't believe this. In other words, you would say ignore the woman, especially after she takes the risk.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: You want it both ways. Here's the problem.

WILLIAMS: OK.

KENNEDY: The optics of the Anita Hill questioning were so bad and so offensive and we cannot have a repetition of that in this day and age. Culture has changed. The senate has changed. Society has changed. And we're also in the middle of a movement and we don't know how that ends. We don't know, like, how that permanently changes society. But if you have a problem with people like Joe Biden and Alan Specter going after a female witness or a female accuser or someone who's sworn under oath to testify before this committee, then why not try it differently? Why not have someone who's not show boating because when senators have their chance like Cory Booker, this is my Spartacus moment, that's when it turns into a circus and that's when people tune out. And that's when we don't.

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: . because everyone is auditioning.

WILLIAMS: This is not about a cross-examination.

PIRRO: Why not? How else do we test the truth in this country?

WILLIAMS: Because you give both people a chance to speak.

PIRRO: And then how do you decide? How do you decide?

WILLIAMS: Whether or not it's a credible allegation, and whether or not you believe it.

PIRRO: Whether it's a civil case or a criminal case.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: This is even more significant.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but it's not what you've said.

PIRRO: Because this country is going to be under the rule of a Supreme Court with a man on it like this, and that's why we need to have a test of truth.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. You're saying.

PIRRO: No, I'm saying.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You just want a hard right -- you want a hard right Supreme Court.

PIRRO: No. What I want is a test of credibility.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Before we go

PIRRO: All right. You're not going to want to miss The Five tomorrow because God help me.

GUTFELD: Judge, we were missing one big key here. He said there was no smear. We had a guy who just crawled under a rock, Avenatti, after calling Kavanaugh an attempted rapist -- I'm sorry, attempted gang raper, and then he crawled under his rock, he made his twitter private. So, I want to remind how this is working -- to the public how this works, instead of driving deep on a specific case, what you do is you find a number of specific examples that alone are not sturdy, one, Ford, two, Ramirez, three, yearbook, four, Avenatti -- Avenatti's claims. Avenatti's claim is, alone, what does it mean? The yearbook, it's just a yearbook, what does that mean? The other case has no corroboration, no witness. So, individually, they don't match. They're not strong. So what do you is you create an environment of guilt by using these little things. That's what the Democrats are doing. It seems to be working with the help of the media.

PIRRO: It is working because the more complainants you bring in, the fewer that have to be testified.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: . rules of credibility that we have used from time in memorial.

WILLIAMS: So these women are all idiots.

PIRRO: No, I'm not saying.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: Juan, wait a minute, I'm not going to let you get away with that.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . for willing to stand up and put themselves.

PIRRO: Do you think they're going to show up? And if they don't show up what does that tell you?

WILLIAMS: Well, I would think.

PIRRO: What does that tell you?

WILLIAMS: I would hope they would show up.

PIRRO: What if they don't? What if they don't?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. Why do you say that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Do you think Avenatti is going to show up on TV tonight?

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

GUTFELD: Do you think he's going to show up?

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . says anything about Blassie Ford. You know what? Why don't -- why wouldn't you let her testify?

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: You're not going to want to miss tomorrow because President Trump is holding a press conference at 5 PM Eastern. We will be bringing it to you live. Up next, Rush Limbaugh has a dire warning for Republicans ahead of the midterms.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: President Trump trying to rally his base tweeting out a reminder the midterms are right around the corner. And Rush Limbaugh taking it a step further, he's issuing a stark warning about the elections if Brett Kavanaugh is not confirmed to the Supreme Court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If the Republicans do not get this vote taken and have Kavanaugh confirmed you can kiss the midterms goodbye. You can kiss goodbye holding the house and you can kiss goodbye holding the senate because whatever the Democrats think of their base, the one thing I know is, that if you guys fold on this and cave and keep bending over backwards, you've done that enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: This comes as the GOP's favorability hits the highest mark it's seen in seven years. A new Gallup poll finding 45 percent of Americans have a positive view of the party. Jesse, let me begin with you on Rush Limbaugh. What do you think? So, if -- is he's saying that if the Republicans don't force Kavanaugh on to the court, that the Republican base will be disappointed and stay away from the voting booths in the midterms?

WATTERS: Yes, Rush is right. R-I-G-H-T, right, Juan. Listen, they control everything right now in Washington, D.C., the White House, the house, the senate, everything. If they can't get Kavanaugh through, they're toast. And here's why, they need to be more Machiavellian like the Democrats. Remember when Obama was in charge you have FISA abuse, dirty dossier, IRS targeting, street violence. You remember how Harry Reid accused Romney of not paying any taxes? They've said Romney killed a cancer patient. They're very, very rough-and-tumble. And right now the Republicans are teetering because they haven't funded the wall and they've only partially repealed Obamacare. The reason why the favorability is up to its highest level in three years right now is because they have hung tough on certain things like judges, like safety and security, and like middle class wages. And Donald Trump is leading that charge for the party. He'll not cave to political correctness and he won't back down when Democrats get hysteria and start making unsubstantiated allegations. So, if the Republican Party loses its grip on power it will be because they caved on this nomination.

WILLIAMS: So, judge, you hear from Jesse because just get it done, Republicans must win, but what about the process?

PIRRO: You want to talk about the process? Well, let's bring in a prosecutor to cross-examine the complainant. Look, here's the problem. For the last few years, Americans have been frustrated with the Clinton Foundation, with the attorney general, with the email investigation, with declassification, and now they want Republicans for once and for all to put on their big boy pants and get it done. And I agree with Rush. If they don't step up, the Republicans are going to totally lose their support. By the way, the numbers are the highest they've been in seven years, the GOP support. I mean, everyone is anticipating and anxiously awaiting a success and it's got to happen. Look, Mitch McConnell can take this vote to the floor. He doesn't even have to do this in the committee. He can do it on Friday if he wants too. And I have a feeling she's not going to show up and they can vote on Friday.

WILLIAMS: Kennedy?

KENNEDY: I actually agree with the Judge Jeanine and Rush on this. I don't think she's going to show up. And that's what I said at the top of the show was her -- her lawyers have created enough wiggle room for Dr. Ford that I really don't think there's a lot of upside for her, and I think there's enough doubt on the Republican side. Why is there Republican optimism right now? It's all about the economy. It's all about the economy and families believing that they've got more at stake invested in their future, and more economic mobility, and that means more opportunity for them and their children. Is that reality? Not quite yet. Some of this is still very much optimistic and theoretical and Republicans have to make good on that promise if they're going to see long term wins. But in the short term, the midterms is still a tossup, it's still anyone's game, and I think that's why people like Rush Limbaugh are tongue lashing some voters because they need to increase that passion and turn that optimism into action if Republicans want to maintain the house and senate, which, you know, it's a 50-50 shot right now.

WILLIAMS: So, Gregory what do you think?

GUTFELD: Short term, the curse of team sport politics is that when one side wages war you have no choice but to wage war back, and the Democrats are waging a pretty fierce war. The Republicans, I think, have no choice. Long term, and this is -- I don't know, this is an idea of mine, long term, the Republicans is going to have an edge because if the Democrats are saying there's no due process when you target your sons or your fathers, then the Republican Party becomes about justice for all, and the Democrats become a party of justice just for women. And so, the thing is what party is going to have an edge in the future? A party just for women, or a party for men and women? And I think the Republicans could look at it that way as, like, we're the party for everyone, men and women. They're just the party for women. And I think people really would rather prefer unity over division long term.

KENNEDY: That's what hurt Hillary Clinton.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

KENNEDY: I mean, the gender-based identity politics are what hurt her because she thought she was a sure thing. I think the Trump campaign thought she was a sure thing, and she let that slip through her fingers by creating what turned out to be a divisive campaign because you cannot alienate half of your electorate.

WILLIAMS: No, but I think that the other side of this is women wanting to be heard.

GUTFELD: No, but we're listening. I mean, men -- women are married to men. They have sons. And all the boys listen to their mothers and their sisters.

WILLIAMS: Greg, I'm a man, I understand.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: But what I'm saying to you is that we have a history in this country of women being dismissed in terms of kind of sexual misbehavior by men and so forth. And you have an opportunity here.

KENNEDY: Do you read the New York Post? Women sexually misbehave as well. And men are not the devil. All men are not the devil.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: In this case.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . going back to what Greg was talking about with the yearbook at Georgetown prep, you know, it was making fools and mocking women.

WATTERS: No, it wasn't, Juan.

WILLIAMS: A little bit.

WATTERS: The story for that story was a left wing activist Democrat.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Here we go.

PIRRO: Everybody thinks that the hash tag Me Too Movement is the first time we've talked about women's rights. There've been women in the trenches fighting for women's rights, fighting for rape victims, and victims of domestic violence for 30, 40, 50 years, so don't make like this is just happening.

WILLIAMS: I don't think.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . are being heard. Michael Moore's new anti-Trump film bombs at the box office. Guess what? Greg's on it and that's next on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: All right.

Michael Moore is now making disaster movies, his new one an eighth place flop making only $3 million total. It sank faster than S.S. Poseidon. Does this flop matter? Not to the media who think American audiences don't see Moore's films because we're all rubes. Meanwhile, the coastal elites use Moore's screeds as a virtue signal: You lie and say you saw it. The friends say the same thing, so the lie stands.

Moore's films are like vitamin supplements: Most offer zero benefit, but you still say nice things about him. But to his credit, Moore's movies are overtly political, unlike the rest of Hollywood's dreck where producers inject politics as a way to get crummy stuff made. The script sucks but on page seven there's that part about climate change. At least Moore wears his politics on his sleeve. God knows there's plenty of room.

Now, I'm sure the media expected the film to open big: a rejection of Trump and you. It didn't and it wasn't. The lessons: Ideology as entertainment is as loony as a colonoscopy for recreation. Plus, America doesn't need a lecture from a rich dude about how bad things are especially when things are good. We know a lie when we see it. Our country's metrics look great which turns Moore's cinema into a fairy tale for wounded liberals.

Yet, as usual, when Moore flops the media ignores it. If the movie was number one you can bet he'd be everywhere. There's that old saying about the media, you don't report on planes that don't crash, but you also don't report on your favorite beliefs that do.

You know, Judge, we just want an escape. Who goes to movies for political like -- would you go to see a political movie right or left?

PIRRO: I'm dying to go to a movie.

(LAUGHTER)

PIRRO: I'm trying to get anyone to take me to the movies. Would I go to Michael Moore?

GUTFELD: Juan, take her to the movies.

WILLIAMS: You have to do something, because you know what? I don't think.

PIRRO: You and I couldn't agree on a movie.

WILLIAMS: We'll pick a movie.

GUTFELD: No, I'll pick the movie you both go to it.

PIRRO: I'll pick a movie. OK, "Ben Hur."

WILLIAMS: "Ben Hur"?

GUTFELD: Something in this century.

PIRRO: This century?

GUTFELD: This century.

PIRRO: All right, "Gone With The Wind"?

GUTFELD: No, that's before "Ben Hur."

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: Kennedy, what do you want to see?

KENNEDY: Oh, what do I want to see? Gosh, I love Marvel movies.

GUTFELD: You know what's a good movie -- you know what you'd love? The new Nicholas Cage one, "Mandy."

KENNEDY: "Mandy" mania.

GUTFELD: It's called "Mandy."

KENNEDY: That's right.

GUTFELD: It's fantastic.

KENNEDY: No, but I heard his character is unreal. But it's so funny because we're talking about this, we're not talking about Michael Moore because it's not entertainment, it's not how people consume that kind of information. Everyone has giant Costco TV's now. Everyone has a 50-inch platinum TV or plasma, whatever. And so now you're on Netflix, in Hulu, in Amazon Prime, and soon Fox Nation, and you're able to watch this incredible content, and you go to movies for total escapism. That's when you.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I think you've got a great point because, in fact, Michael Moore had some hit movies that were about news. But now, I think, news is so omnipresent.

KENNEDY: Fake news. Fake news.

WILLIAMS: I think people are sick -- I think people -- so the big week -- the big movie in my family this weekend was the house with a clock in the wall.

GUTFELD: Yeah..

WILLIAMS: . with Jack Black and Cate Blanchett.

PIRRO: Was it good?

WILLIAMS: I didn't go. But everybody went except me because I work.

PIRRO: They liked it?

WILLIAMS: They've love it, but the little guy got a little scared. But I'm telling you that's where people went, they didn't go to Michael Moore. But I think it's because, boy, the news is kind of rough, right?

KENNEDY: You need escapism.

WATTERS: Here's a good -- between "Fahrenheit 9/11" and "Fahrenheit 11/9." The first movie was based on a conspiracy theory, and audiences loves that. Remember the Saudi connection to the Bush family. Dick Cheney's war profiteers. The WMD scandal, the CIA. They loved that stuff, and it gave meaning to the anti-war left at the time. And critics loved it, because it was fresh.

Now, if you want -- there's no conspiracy with Donald Trump. It's all out in the open. There's nothing going on behind the scenes. If anything, people are conspiring against him. And if you want anti-Trump propaganda, you watch CNN or you watch MSNBC.

KENNEDY: You know what's interesting, though? And Michael Moore was one of the few people who called the election ahead of time.

GUTFELD: Right. That's true.

KENNEDY: There were very, very few, so many people, all the pollsters were off. And he was the one person on the left who said, "I know these people. I know these people in Michigan and in the Rust Belt, and they are so disenfranchised, and identity politics doesn't ring true with them. What he's saying resonates, and he could easily win, at least this part of the country." And he was absolutely right. So he makes a better analyst than he does a propaganda filmmaker.

WILLIAMS: I think he said identity -- white identity politics was resonating, because they thought somebody else was being -- was benefiting, not them. I think that's what it is.

And Jesse, by the way --

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- I just -- I just, to me, when you look at Michael Moore, it seems to me Michael Moore was hitting something that was very real before, and you could say, "Oh, no conspiracy this time? Well, tell that to the Russians."

WATTERS: What was the conspiracy?

WILLIAMS: That's what Robert Mueller and everybody --

GUTFELD: It's collusion.

KENNEDY: Really -- is there really a dearth of anti-Trump material?

GUTFELD: It's a Russian -- it's Russians behind the flop. The Russians.

WILLIAMS: I think they're in the wall. They're in that movie.

GUTFELD: Yes. All right. Shall we move on?

KENNEDY: Libyans.

GUTFELD: Left-wing protestors chase Ted Cruz out of a restaurant, and that's just one example of liberal lunacy over Kavanaugh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Liberals are losing their minds over Brett Kavanaugh. An angry mob of left-wing protestors harassed and chased Senator Ted Cruz and his wife out of a Washington, D.C., restaurant for supporting the Supreme Court nominee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, I have a right to know what your position is on Brett Kavanaugh.

SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS: God bless you, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe survivors! We believe survivors!

CRUZ: Excuse me. God bless you. Can you let my wife through?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Late-night comedian Jimmy Kimmel is under fire for making this crude joke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, 'JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!' I think there's a compromise here, and hear me out on this. So Kavanaugh gets confirmed to the Supreme Court. OK. In return, we get to cut that pesky penis of his off in front of everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And Joy Behar is doubling down on her claim Kavanaugh is already guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trying to push the vote forward, even though they heard about the second accusation.

JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, ABC'S "THE VIEW": Yes, it's true. Right. Yes. Because they figure they'll push him. He'll be in. They'll get their way, and then we'll find out the guy is guilty. What good is that? They'd have to impeach a Supreme Court justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: OK, Juan. So your party has managed to make Ted Cruz look like a sympathetic figure.

WILLIAMS: Wow.

WATTERS: That's not easy for some people. I'm just kidding. I love the senator. But in all seriousness, you guys don't want people to eat.

WILLIAMS: Don't want people to eat?

WATTERS: You're chasing them out of restaurant. Condemn, please. Condemn.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's appropriate.

WATTERS: Good. Jeanine, what do you think about it?

WILLIAMS: Hang on, hang on.

JEANINE PIRRO, CO-HOST: I want to add to that.

WILLIAMS: Go ahead.

PIRRO: We never did this to Sotomayor and Kagan; and the truth is, Kagan was nowhere near qualified.

WILLIAMS: Wait, wait. Wait, wait.

PIRRO: We Republicans are just so polite.

WILLIAMS: You're confused.

PIRRO: I'm confused?

WILLIAMS: Yes, because he's not the nominee.

PIRRO: No, but it's for their support of Kavanaugh. That's what it's all about.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not Kagan or Sotomayor. It's like saying -- that's like --

PIRRO: What I'm saying is --

WILLIAMS: -- Joe Biden didn't get chased out.

PIRRO: We didn't have 102 arrests because we didn't like Kagan. We didn't interrupt 451 times because we didn't like Sotomayor.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

PIRRO: We respect these candidates.

WILLIAMS: Yes, as I recall --

PIRRO: The Democrats have no respect.

WILLIAMS: As I recall in 2010, when the healthcare thing was happening, there were some pretty disrespectful people.

WATTERS: Peaceful Tea Party protests. No Tea Party member ever chased anybody out of a restaurant.

WILLIAMS: Uh-huh.

WATTERS: Greg, what do you make of this really aggressive behavior?

GUTFELD: All right. Two things. The reason -- right-wingers don't do this. Left-wingers do, because they ascribe a moral -- like a moral judgment on your politics. You're not just wrong, you're evil; therefore, that excuses any kind of action towards you. It's OK to go after and humiliate somebody in public, because they are evil, not wrong.

We're getting dangerously close to mob rule, all right? Here's the evidence. We have a media that's excusing violence by Antifa, saying that they're a nonviolent peace group. The media is excusing allegations without due process. That's mob. The media excusing hindrances of free speech on campus.

When you put all that stuff together, you are losing control of a country. We are talking about mob rule and it does -- people think, you know, revolution doesn't happen like that. It happens over time. I don't know, at this rate, where we're going to be in 20 years.

WILLIAMS: Yes, because I think we're divided. But Greg, let me just come back at you. It wasn't the left-wing that went into Planet Ping-Pong Pizza with a gun.

GUTFELD: Yes. But you know, Antifa is a group that beat people up with bike locks.

WILLIAMS: And who ran people over in Charlottesville?

GUTFELD: The right has nuts. You guys have movements.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. When they run and kill people --

WATTERS: Juan, it was a --

GUTFELD: Literally, movements.

WATTERS: -- also shot by a burning bro (ph).

WILLIAMS: I'm just saying --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: One side or the other, Greg is making it out like it's just the left.

GUTFELD: We're about rule of law. You're about chaos.

KENNEDY: Can I just break in here?

WILLIAMS: Go right ahead, Kennedy.

WATTERS: Go ahead, Kennedy.

KENNEDY: Here's the thing. Because, you know, now it's interesting, because the Democrats' line is "We don't need due process. This is the Senate." And they want to turn the Senate into a circus. They want to do away with Robert's Rules of Order and any parliamentary procedure, because it's inconvenient for them.

And what that means is leftists now, emotional leftists, because for me, it's not about party. It's about emotionalism versus rationalism. And, you know, very few rationalists make cases like this, because they actually try and let their facts and claims speak for them.

But when that fails, and that is the case in the Kavanaugh hearings, then that's when you resort --

WILLIAMS: But Kennedy -- Kennedy --

KENNEDY: -- to this kind of emotionalism. And it's not acceptable, because it is an abdication of personal responsibility, because people no longer feel that they have to comport themselves like rational human beings.

WILLIAMS: I hope not. I hope not. But what we saw -- and I thought that Martha MacCallum did an excellent job with interviewing Kavanaugh last night and really, I think, you know, put a finger in the eye of all FOX critics who said, "She's not going to be a straight interviewer." She did a good job. But you see him, as his defense, it was emotional, to your point. "I was a virgin. Therefore, I couldn't have done it." Well, that's not relevant, and it didn't fit. You can still attack somebody, but that was the appeal.

KENNEDY: OK, but what would an acceptable defense sound like? What would an acceptable defense -- what could Brett Kavanaugh say to you --

WILLIAMS: If he said --

KENNEDY: -- that would make you think -- that he was not guilty.

WILLIAMS: -- that he hadn't done it, right? If he -- when he says he didn't do it, therefore, you would say, so what party is it that you say you didn't attend? He doesn't even know that.

WATTERS: Juan -- Juan, everything he said has been almost airtight.

WILLIAMS: Oh, please.

WATTERS: Every defense from the witnesses, they've all sided with him.

WILLIAMS: Where's Mark Judge?

WATTERS: Denial under penalty of perjury, as well. Exculpatory calendars he's going to proffer.

PIRRO: Should she be under penalty of perjury for making the claim?

WILLIAMS: You can't -- of course.

PIRRO: Every -- every complainant who brought a case in my office under penalty of perjury. You make the claim, you don't follow through with it, I can --

WILLIAMS: That's a criminal -- that's a criminal action.

WATTERS: Juan, we just want to eat in peace and not be chased out of a restaurant.

It's a big day for Juan, though. His new book is on sale today, and we're going to preview it up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: To those I say the following.

What do you have to lose?

What do you have to lose?

What the hell do you have to lose?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: What do you have to lose? At least someone's here to answer that. That was one of the more memorable lines from then-candidate Trump on the campaign trail, and it has sparked a nationwide debate about race and politics in America.

Those comments have also inspired our friend and fellow "Fiver," Juan Williams's newest book, titled, "What the Hell Do You Have to Lose? Trump's War on Civil Rights." It hits bookstores today. Go buy it immediately, because Juan Williams, even if you disagree with him, is a great writer.

So Juan, was it your obsession with the president that caused you to research and write a book all about him?

WILLIAMS: No, I was --

KENNEDY: Having parsed many campaign speeches?

WILLIAMS: -- taken by this -- by these words: "What the hell do you have to lose?" Because the suggestion was, you know, these black folks, they live in communities with lots of gun violence. They have no jobs, and they have no future; and they've been voting for Democrats. So it was -- so what the hell do you have to lose? Why not come vote for me? That's the way I understood it.

But then I thought, wait a second. He's not speaking in a black community, and he's not speaking to blacks. He's talking to whites about black people in this way, in much the way that he talked about the Mexicans and the immigrants, rapists, criminals, all that.

But in this case, he's saying to the -- to whites that he, Donald Trump, is the hero who will protect them against the chaos and dysfunction that threatens them.

I thought two things, Kennedy. One, most black people don't live like that. I think 22 percent of black America lives in poverty, but I think it's 40 percent of black America makes between, like, $35,000 and $100,000. Another 12 percent, between 100 and 200. So a majority, more than 50 percent --

KENNEDY: Who's failing, then, in that perception?

GUTFELD: Can I respond to this? Because I think it's -- this is interesting. I do think he was talking to you. I do think he -- Donald Trump was using the television to get to an audience that the media wasn't going to give him. So when he went and said, "What do you have to lose?" he was talking to African-Americans.

And the pitch, it was a sales pitch. He's a salesman. The sales pitch is exactly the same that Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, have echoed in the past, which is if you don't offer a competitive product to the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party doesn't have to try. So all Trump is saying and all the black intellectuals have been saying is, once the Republicans offer a competitive product, finally, the Democrats will stop taking blacks for granted.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's a logical argument, Greg, but the point is, that he wasn't arguing for programs that, in fact, would bolster the black middle class or even help the blacks.

GUTFELD: Don't you think -- look at prison reform. He's open. He's very open.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. In terms of prison reform, look at what the Justice Department in the Trump administration has done. They've pushed back against Republicans who want that

KENNEDY: I am going to push back against that, because no, no. Jeff Sessions --

PIRRO: You're wrong about that.

KENNEDY: No, that there are people within the president's circle.

PIRRO: Jeff Sessions.

KENNEDY: Jeff Sessions is awful when it comes to criminal justice reform. But there are people like --

PIRRO: Jared Kushner.

KENNEDY: -- inside the White House.

PIRRO: Jared Kushner is pushing prison reform.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but it ain't happening.

PIRRO: It is going to happen.

WILLIAMS: OK.

PIRRO: They've passed part of the bill, what they want.

And, by the way, what the hell do you have to lose? Can't we even look at unemployment? African-American unemployment. In the end, didn't it work?

WILLIAMS: This is -- no, because this is exactly Trump's retort. Whenever anybody asks about race, he says, "Look at the unemployment rate."

PIRRO: But it's one of the metrics to look at.

WILLIAMS: Two things I would say to this, Judge. Most of that reduction was under President Obama. And the second thing is, black unemployment remains double white unemployment.

And then you get into the details, which I do in the book about programs that are intended to bolster black economics in this country, either in terms of work or investment, and you see that the Trump administration is cutting back.

WATTERS: Can I ask you this, Juan? So after many years of the Democrats putting in place these economic programs to help blacks, why is black unemployment and all of those metrics double what it is for whites? Does that tell you, then, maybe these programs that the Democrats are putting forward, maybe not be working?

WILLIAMS: Well, in some cases they may not work. In some places, they --

WATTERS: So what's wrong with Donald Trump --

WILLIAMS: Well, here's --

WATTERS: -- saying, "Let's put new programs forward, like on trade and technologies"?

GUTFELD: And you're for choice, school choice.

WATTERS: They might benefit.

KENNEDY: You're talking about, again, dependency on government programs, though.

WILLIAMS: Two things in response. One is, if he had new programs, I'd be anxious to see them.

WATTERS: I think he has economic policies. Not government programs.

WILLIAMS: And the second thing to say is, and just the way that you cast that, or framed it, you fail to see that, in fact, there's been tremendous -- I think the biggest accomplishment of the civil rights movement has been the increase in the black middle class and black political power that produced the first black president.

So to ignore the fact that there has been progress, it seems to me, is condescending and insulting to therefore say, "What the hell do you people have to lose? You have nothing."

KENNEDY: OK, but here's -- OK, Juan --

GUTFELD: He didn't say "people."

PIRRO: Yes. He didn't.

KENNEDY: Obviously, you know, the racial history in this country is checkered with so much tragedy and sadness, and there's been so much division. And it seems like there are a lot of people who are willing to give into that division.

I would like to see someone -- and it doesn't necessarily have to be the president, because I don't believe that politicians are messianic. I don't believe that government programs help people. I believe that individuals help themselves. And I would love to see someone come forward who really can truly bring people together.

GUTFELD: Are you talking about me?

PIRRO: That was supposed to be Barack Obama.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that he -- to a certain extent he did, but it became polarizing.

WATTERS: And now it's Kanye West. He's the only one trying to bring stuff together.

KENNEDY: At least he's having an interesting conversation, and he's bold enough to do that.

WATTERS: Yes.

KENNEDY: And he's willing to say, "Don't bully me into your politics. I don't want to believe what you believe just because you tell me to believe it." I have a great deal of respect for that

WILLIAMS: So I have a great deal of respect and appreciation for you guys for having the conversation, because I think this is an important conversation that people oftentimes steer away from.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And so I just appreciate that you guys would have it and talk about it. Because that's what the book's intended to do: get people talking.

PIRRO: You going on a book tour?

WILLIAMS: I'm going to go on a book tour. Wait a second. You wanted to go to a movie, but I've got to go on a book tour.

PIRRO: My boyfriend's going to take me to a movie.

KENNEDY: Juan, take her to a movie. What the hell do you have to do?

WILLIAMS: There you go.

PIRRO: Oh, there's a book tour.

WILLIAMS: Then I'm going on a book tour. So tomorrow I'm going to be in Atlanta, and then San Francisco, Seattle, and then Washington on Sunday.

PIRRO: Wow. Fantastic.

KENNEDY: All right. Very good. "One More Thing" is up next. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PIRRO: It's time now for "One More Thing." You want to hit it Greg, first?

GUTFELD: I shall. All right. Let's go to this.

GRAPHIC: Greg's Cat-Off

GUTFELD: "Greg's Cat-Off." OK, here are the rules. I'm going to show three cat videos. The table votes on the best one.

Here's the first one, a disembodied robot hand scratching the butt of a cat. I think that's pretty good. I would like to have one of those for myself, though it would have to be disinfected regularly.

KENNEDY: Oh!

GUTFELD: All right. To the next video, please. Here we have a mommy cat and her little kids chasing her tail. They aren't very bright, are they? But they are kittens after all. Isn't that adorable?

KENNEDY: Nah.

GUTFELD: No? No, no.

Final video, a slow-motion kitten, catching a fly.

WATTERS: I'm going to go with the hand?

GUTFELD: You're going to go with the hand? One hand. Let's go with the votes. You?

PIRRO: Cat at the end.

GUTFELD: Hand?

WILLIAMS: It's Halloween time. I've got to go with the hand.

KENNEDY: I like the hand because it's the only non-cat thing in there.

WILLIAMS: All right. The hand wins, hands down.

PIRRO: All right. Kennedy.

KENNEDY: Today is National One-Hit Wonder Day.

PIRRO: That's right.

KENNEDY: One-hit wonders are amazing. They're so incredibly cruel, because the band has a taste of this phenomenal instant success, and then it is all over. Some of my very favorite one-hit wonders. This one, from my time on MTV, "How Bizarre." How bizarre, how bizarre from a band called OMC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: OMC'S "HOW BIZARRE")

KENNEDY: This is the only song they had! Tell me you don't remember that.

And of course, this one from Harvey Danger, "Flagpole Sitta."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: HARVEY DANGER'S "FLAGPOLE SITTA")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Great song.

KENNEDY: That's such a great band. It feels like the world should have known much more about them.

GUTFELD: He's an actor.

KENNEDY: And of course, this one that launched MTV, the very first video ever played on MTV, "Video Killed the Radio Star" by the Buggles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: THE BUGGLES, "VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: And video killed the --

PIRRO: All right. Jesse.

WATTERS: All right. Speaking of one-hit wonders, I'll go next.

GUTFELD: Aww.

WATTERS: Philadelphia Flyers unveiled their new mascot. The mascot is named gritty, and it didn't get off to a very good start. This is what Gritty looks like. That is the mascot. And it kind of got off to an inauspicious debut. Crashed face first on the ice, I believe. OK, down goes Gritty.

Now, some people have been saying some mean things about Gritty. This is one tweet, Craig from Philly. "Loving the new Flyers mascot Gritty. Nightmares for days."

Then we have Ryan Lob: "If you mix the abominable snowman with the Heat Miser, you get the new mascot."

And finally, from Hockey Fights, "This is your brain. This is your brain on drugs."

So there's the new mascot, Gritty. People call me Gritty, too, so we like the new mascot.

PIRRO: All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I think Philadelphia has the best mascot, the Phillies Phanatic. I don't know what happened to him.

All right. A league of their own. How about a flight of their own? Take a look at this video, folks.

Those women are veterans from Nebraska. They went to Washington yesterday on an honor flight. The veterans, 27 to 98 years old, celebrated their military service with a jam-packed day in the capital. After being cheered in the airport, they visited Arlington Cemetery, the Pentagon Memorial and the Women's Memorial.

By the way, you should know everyone on the flight was female, even the pilot and the crew. Having a woman's only trip was a first for the honor flight, which annually brings veterans to D.C. Hats off to the ladies. Thanks so much for being true American heroes.

PIRRO: That's right.

All right. Now, Jesse, you were talking about the ice. I want you to meet the world's first ice-skating dog, a lovable Labrador who spends its days at the rink after being saved from euthanasia.

All right. Benny has been learning to skate for a year after his owner, former coach Cheryl Del Sangro, took him along for practice on a whim. During the first foray on the ice last winter, adorable Benny scooted around after his owner, gleefully picking up the pucks.

So that's it. The rescues. That's it. You don't want to miss tomorrow's show. They're telling me hurry up. We'll have President Trump's press conference live at 5 p.m. "Special Report" up next.

Hey, Bret.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Nice job, Judge. Thank you.

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