Cyber Chaos

This is a rush transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," December 12, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: "Factor follow-up" segment tonight, as we've been reporting, there are no standards on the Internet. And all kinds of terrible things are taking place there. A video called "Criminals Gone Wild" is now being sold. It shows crimes, actual crimes, violent crimes in progress. And they have been photographed by a man named Ousala Aleem.

Apparently Mr. Aleem is tipped off about the criminal activity in advance. He then goes and photographs it. Mr. Aleem joins us now.

So you are known as F.D. - you're a director people in the world, as they say, know you. So you'll get an email saying I'm going to commit a crime? Be here at a certain time? Is that how it goes down?

OUSALA ALEEM, "CRIMINALS GONE WILD": No. It didn't start like that. It actually started out I wanted to do a documentary about criminal psychology and the minds of the criminal and how the criminal thinks. And as I was out shooting the criminals, taping the criminals, and asking the series questions that I would ask them, as the days went by, I continued to follow-up with them, crime just started to happen because they're criminals.

O'REILLY: Yes, because you were there in their proximity. But now some guys contact you and say be in the city. This is going to happen, right?

ALEEM: Yes. A couple bloggers posted up on the site. It did about 200,000 views. The next thing I knew, I was getting e-mails and phone calls left and right.

O'REILLY: Right. So criminals want you to go there and shoot the criminal activity, which is perverse in itself.

Now, I looked at some of these videos. You actually get in the car on a couple of occasions with carjackers, armed carjackers. So you're there. These carjackers are taking somebody's car. You're in the car with the criminal, shooting it. Do you feel any moral obligation not to do that?

ALEEM: Well, as a filmmaker and a cameraman, you know, good footage speaks for itself.

O'REILLY: Good footage, though, means somebody's getting hurt, somebody might get killed. Is that worth it?

ALEEM: No, it's not worth it, but I didn't plan any of that. If somebody got hurt or got killed, that wasn't in my plan. Like I said, I originally...

O'REILLY: True, but you are maybe encouraging it because they want you to be there with the camera. That's possible. It's debatable, but it's possible. And the second thing is you could call the cops and say, hey, it's coming.

ALEEM: If F.D. wasn't live here, if F.D. wasn't alive, and if "Criminals Gone Wild" didn't come out, crime would still be going on. So...

O'REILLY: That's true. And that's what the heroin dealers say and the crack dealers. If I didn't sell it, somebody else would. Right?

ALEEM: Right.

O'REILLY: Is that morally OK, if I don't sell it, somebody else would so I can sell it?

ALEEM: I'm not going to sit here and say it's morally OK, but...

O'REILLY: Do you think you're doing anything wrong? That's the question.

ALEEM: No, I don't think I'm doing anything wrong. I don't see myself any different than news. I'm reporting news in my neighborhood. I'm reporting crime in my neighborhood.

O'REILLY: But news is after the fact. You're during the fact. That's the difference. Now if somebody was going to get hurt, now people have been hurt because they're stealing their stuff, they're scaring these people, whatever. I don't know if you've ever seen anybody get hurt, have you?

ALEEM: Yes, I did.

O'REILLY: You did.


O'REILLY: Would you intervene to stop that person from getting hurt?

ALEEM: If somebody's about to shoot somebody, and I'm sitting there and they're about to shoot somebody, what can I say? What am I going to do?

O'REILLY: Hit them with your camera. Take...

ALEEM: My camera is not...

O'REILLY: You wouldn't do that?


O'REILLY: So you wouldn't save a life, put your own life in jeopardy to save a life?

ALEEM: I never knew that anyone's life was going to be taken. I never went out saying we're going to kill someone tonight.

O'REILLY: Here's what I'm talking about. Say you're there and the guy's beating up the person. You've seen that, right?


O'REILLY: Would you say stop beating that person up?



ALEEM: I wouldn't say that because like I said, a cameraman...

O'REILLY: You know I appreciate your honesty. All right, so if you're not going to stop the beating, all right, and you're going to allow it to happen in front of you, you can understand why some people would say that's immoral. That's wrong. You have an obligation to try to stop the beating, try to mitigate the suffering of that person. You can understand that, correct?

ALEEM: No, I totally agree with you. I think that it's wrong, but you know like I said, I'm a filmmaker. And my objective was to show people crime is real and to expose it.

O'REILLY: I wouldn't do what you do.

ALEEM: We're two different people, Bill.

O'REILLY: That's true. But my conscience wouldn't allow me to do that. I'm not going to stand there and make money off somebody' else's pain and suffering because you're making money off it.

ALEEM: Well, I'm — the way I see it is I'm not the only one profiting off the crime. You know what I mean?

O'REILLY: Back to the heroin dealer again. You're not the only one doing it.

ALEEM: I mean, the justice system, they're profiting off of crime, the police, the judges.

O'REILLY: You're rationalizing it.

ALEEM: The lawyers.

O'REILLY: You're smart enough to know you're rationalizing. You're rationalizing.

All right, all I want you to do is think about it. You're an honest guy. You came in and you tell the truth. You didn't try to dodge it. And we appreciate you doing that.

ALEEM: Thank you.

O'REILLY: Thank you, sir.

Plenty more ahead as "The Factor" moves along this evening. The adult who may have driven the 13-year-old girl to commit suicide is now being threatened. We will talk to the deceased girl's mother. That should be something.

And then Dennis Miller will opine about the rise of Governor Huckabee, and whether Joe Horn should be prosecuted for killing two burglars. We hope you stay tuned for those reports.

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