Coronavirus experts send mixed messages on transmission, potential second wave

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Coronavirus experts send mixed messages on transmission, potential second wave

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 27, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino, along with Jesse Watters, Greg Gutfeld, Donna Brazile, and Katie Pavlich. It is 5:00 in New York City. This is THE FIVE. A new era in American space travel put on hold, but just for now, bad weather postponing SpaceX's launch of two NASA astronauts into orbit from Cape Canaveral, Florida.

It would've been the first manned rocket launch on U.S. soil in nearly a decade. The next attempt is set for Saturday afternoon. Let's go to live to Phil Keating. He's standing by in Cape Canaveral with a quick update for us. You even braved a tornado today.

PHIL KEATING, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. We had a tornado warning in the afternoon. I was talking to you on your 2:00 show. There's no way around it. This is a massively disappointing ending of what was going to be such a triumphant day. SpaceX has been working for this moment for 10 years. Elon Musk had a dream of launching astronauts on board his rockets, his capsules.

And also for NASA, they pride themselves on the public-private partnership that began after the retirement of the Space Shuttle System. All of the technical issues on the crew, Dragon and the Falcon 9 rocket, which is still sitting over there on launch pad 39A. They were all great. They were all a go. This whole mission was a go.

It all boiled down all day long to how the weather would be come launch time. And as you can see on the countdown clock, we got 16 minutes and 54 seconds away from ignition of those nine Merlin engines. But suddenly, that's the moment the countdown clock froze. And then it was quickly declared that the launch was scrubbed for the day due to weather.

We were hoping that the skies would open up just long enough. I mean, the day began with deluge of rain and lightning and thunder. We had several of those bands come through here. It was really a wet day. And everybody was just hoping that the 60 percent chance that it could work out would happen. But in the end, it did not. So what will happen now, I believe, the astronauts are going to actually speak before the cameras once they get back off the capsule.

It could happen, like, around 5:30 and between 5:30 and 6:00. But we will do it again in three days. Saturday will be the rescheduled launch day at 3:22 in the afternoon Eastern Time, Dana.

PERINO: All right. Phil, thanks so much, appreciate it. Let's take it around the table. Katie Pavlich, I know you are a big space fan. And even though the weather scuttled things today, it was a pretty important moment for America showing the capability of the private sector and the government coming together and to show little muscle around the world in the space program.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Yeah. You know, Dana, I grew up in a place called Mars Hill where Pluto was discovered as a planet. And I still believe that it is a planet. So you are right. I am a space nerd. And I love stuff like this. And to watch all the innovation and to look at the technology that has changed so much just in the 10 years since American astronauts were launched into space is amazing.

I remember in 2012 when the Discovery Shuttle was flown over D.C. to its, you know, final resting place. It felt really sad that we know longer had this program to be sending American astronauts to the International Space Station. And for me, I really love that America is regaining its independence in space, to be able to send Americans from American soil up to space, whether it's for scientific reasons, for national security projects, all of the above.

So in a time, especially now, where America has been locked down for the last three months between the Space Force and this, to see all this innovation and to see that dreams can be accomplished on the largest scales. And yes, every single is so controlled and all of the engineering that goes on here. And then the weather is one thing that they say they can't control.

And the NASA commentators were talking about that right before they called off the launch. They can do all these things with this technology, but that. So maybe someday, but looking forward to Saturday. I wouldn't call this a failure by any means. I would say we just have to wait for three more days.

PERINO: Yeah. And Greg, I was thinking about this, like, in the middle of 12 weeks of being in lockdown, that this was a real moment for everyone to be like OK, there's hope. There's light at the end of the tunnel. We have still got it.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Yeah. I mean, assuming you believe this is real, I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Are you guys really -- I mean -- OK, I just want to point out. I just want to point out I saw Phil Keating in the hallway. I am in New York City, OK? Phil Keating is getting a cappuccino in the Fox kitchen. So don't put this -- by the way, I'm -- maybe I'm kidding. We can all empathize. I hate it when my flight gets cancelled.

The least that NASA and SpaceX can do is maybe get him an upgrade on the next flight. Maybe some drink vouchers and a pass for the -- if they have a nice lounge. They could sit in the lounge. It's going to happen on Saturday. Everything is going to be great. But to Katie's point, it is a reminder that America is the land of exploration and adventure, and would kind of put that on pause.

I was talking to Dana about this a while ago. When we talk about computers, there's this thing called Morris Law (ph), which says it -- we double the number of transistors on a chip every two years. Imagine if we had that kind of exponential growth in air and space travel. We would be going to Mars for breakfast and then have lunch on Venus, instead of being stuck at a hub in Philly trying to get to O'Hare and wanting to throw ourselves off a building.

But that's -- I mean, we really kind of have dropped the ball in space travel, if it's real. But we don't know that.

PERINO: If it's real. Donna, it was also a moment of a lot of unity, which the country was feeling today. And I know that you love innovation. And I was thinking about the private sector and the government coming together, and this is -- this could be a model for the way forward on maybe not just in space.

DONNA BRAZILE, FOX NEWS HOST: Dana, when I found out we were paying the Russians $86 million just to hitch a ride up to the Space Station, I said really? So I was excited to see this new space capsule. You know, growing up during the so-called space race, down in Louisiana. I mean, my family used to gather on the TV set and just look forward to, you know, sending men and women up to space.

So I'm looking forward to Saturday at 3:22 p.m. Trust me. I will be home, properly dressed. And of course, I will have myself a drink since it will be 3:22. And I'm going to root for our astronauts to the Space Station. And yes, we can save money in the process.

PERINO: Jesse, let's get some final thoughts from you.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Oh, a Democrat wanting to save money, wow, amazing, can't believe it. Also Democrats that's --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- that the Russians are helping. Yeah, usually, when we pay the Russians for something, we call it a dossier. But I don't want to get political, Donna. I don't want to get political. I will say this. I had a bad feeling about this launch. I am beginning to think, and I can't believe I'm going to say this, that Trump might be a jinx with this kind of stuff.

You know, he goes down there and they don't launch. Remember the Daytona 500, rain delay. Remember he goes to Alabama for the LSU game, Alabama loses. There is a lot of pressure when the commander-in-chief comes. But in the same sense, the president with this, and then we expect it Saturday. And you know, sometimes in you tease something and then you bring it back, it really heightens your anticipation for when it really happens. So I'm considering this just a tease.

But when this goes up, along with Space Force, the president's legacy with space is going to be great. You compare that to Barack Obama's space legacy. That's almost as bad as his legacy on Earth. I mean, he slashed the Constellation program. W had that all geared up. And then I think, like, Neil Armstrong had to send a nasty letter to Barack Obama because he slashed NASA.

So I am glad this is happening. And I'm ready to see some aliens. So on Saturday, I will be there with Donna with a drink.

PERINO: All right, unity.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Coming up, President Trump accusing Twitter of election interference. And we are fact-checking his tweets, what Trump is now threatening to do to the social media giant. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAVLICH: Trump taking on Twitter, the president threatening to regulate or close down social media companies after Twitter started fact-checking his tweets. Trump accusing the platform of silencing conservatives and trying to interfere with the 2020 elections. It's in response to Twitter, adding a warning label to his tweets about mail-in ballots and voter fraud.

So Greg, this is a whole can of worms. But Twitter is using CNN and the Washington Post as their fact-checkers.

GUTFELD: Well, I mean, think about this. What is easier? To throw away a bag of votes, or get a Russian troll farm to help you swing an election. I think it's easier to throw away a bag of votes. But anyway, the thing is this whole fact-checking thing is designed as a way to tackle misinformation, which would be good if there was a balance and misinformation.

But we do know from research that the news media is about 90 percent liberal. So the right generally is over-policed daily compared to the left. It's like a highway where only the red cars get pulled over, while the blue cars keep going. That's how we police misinformation. And I think that this kind of fact-checking thing, this is an example of it, which is extend the practice of going after things that are said by Trump or said by conservative outfits.

While all -- I mean imagine if you tried to fact-check everything said against Trump, from the Russian collusion, to the accusations of racism, to the 25th Amendment that went on for a couple of months, and then now you have the blood libel of the Coronavirus, in which you have certain people on MSNBC saying, you know, he's got 100,000 deaths on his hands.

It's impossible to actually fact-check the immensity of these claims against Trump. So you know it's only going to work one way. They are just going to pull over the red cars and let the blue cars drive by.

PAVLICH: You know, Dana, for a while now, big social media companies like Twitter and Facebook have been threatened with regulation, because they claim that they are just a public platform but then they do things like edit content, ban content, in this case, fact-check President Trump's tweets. But you interviewed Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg for your show tomorrow. Let's get a sneak peek at that and get your response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Twitter decided for the first time ever to fact-check one of President Trump's tweets. I wonder if you thought that that Twitter may have made a wrong decision here.

MARK ZUCKERBERG, FACEBOOK CEO: We have a different policy, I think, than Twitter on this. You know, I just believe strongly that Facebook shouldn't be the arbiter of truth of everything that people say online. I think in general private companies, probably shouldn't be -- or especially these platform companies shouldn't be in the position of doing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAVLICH: Dana?

PERINO: So that is a policy that the Facebook team put in place last October, around the time that I first interviewed him. And the uproar from the left has never let up against Facebook on this. They want him to be policing President Trump's tweets, but not their own. And it has been something pretty interesting to watch that they have stuck to their guns.

I further asked him about, like, well, what would be the line? You know, is there a line that they would cross? And he was very clear. They look back at the Supreme Court rulings from the past in terms of free speech and if it doesn't have imminent harm to somebody or misinformation that would hurt somebody, then from when it comes to political speech they're going to be hands-off.

And I think that's probably the right decision. If I was sitting there, I don't know exactly what I would do. I don't have all the information. But I think that's the right thing. I think free speech is something that Americans cherish. American companies should cherish. And there was no need for Twitter to get involved. Yesterday, like, why fact-check that particular tweet?

There are hundreds of tweets that you could choose, but they chose the mail-in voting. And there is controversy about mail-in voting. There are statistics. There are different things. It took Seattle about 10 years to get it right, Jason Rans (ph) sort of big -- a great piece on this to explain that it's pretty good now, but it took 10 years for them to get it to be good.

So I think there's room for a debate. I just don't understand why Twitter decided to step in on that particular tweet yesterday, when there were plenty of other tweets, including one yesterday that they could've taken action on.

PAVLICH: Well, Jesse, shouldn't they be also then fact-checking -- I don't know, members of the Chinese Communist Party who are spewing lies about the Coronavirus on Twitter? They aren't doing that.

WATTERS: No, because they have too much money in China. I mean, why don't they fact-check pencil neck? I mean, he's been lying about collusion for three years. I would put a little fact-check behind any of those tweets. And I know why they chose this to fact-check, because it is the only way they are going to beat Trump, is ballot harvesting. It's not even a fact- check, Katie.

It is spin. I mean, like, I have sheets of paper here of reports that I found on Twitter that say that there's a lot of abuse with mail ballots. It's from the New York Times, the AP, CBS. I mean, these aren't fact- checkers. This is like the Democrat state of the union rebuttal. And they don't understand how weak it makes the left look, because Biden can't take him out.

The media can't take him out. Now, they are asking big tech for help? I mean, you guys can't do this on your own? Why can't Biden re-tweet Trump and say this or that? That's his job. And then you find out the guy in charge of enforcing the rules on Twitter is some left-wing hack that called the Trump folks Nazis. The whole thing is so cooked up that it's almost helping the president because it makes him, again, look like he's got everybody against him.

You know, Twitter, the FBI, the mainstream media. And he's going to shove it right back in their face in November.

PAVLICH: So Donna, those arguments --

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: -- all of the whining, all of this whining, Jesus Christ. Jesse, I mean, I wish I could send you some tissue but I'd have to be six feet from you, so therefore, I will have to --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I'm not whining. You're the one who's whining.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: -- the social media.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: -- if Biden was a real contender --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He's stuff this right down Trump's throat, but he can't so he needs Silicon Valley to help him out.

BRAZILE: You're talking over me because you're talking nonsense, these conspiracy theories do cost a lot. And the information that you put out -- the president's tweets should have been deleted. I would have deleted the president's tweets. And you know why? Because it's a bald-faced lie, it's Republicans who use absentee ballots to get out their vote.

That is traditionally been the way that Republicans have always motivated their voters. Go ahead and vote early. So I think that the social media platform companies should regulate themselves, and they should make sure that these conspiracy theories, the one the president put out about Joe Scarborough, it should be deleted. The lies need to stop. There is no First Amendment right to lie, period.

(CROSSTALK)

PAVLICH: And with that, we will move on.

PERINO: Actually, you can.

GUTFELD: You can.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: There's no First Amendment right to lie. There is no First Amendment right to lie. You just go ahead and lie.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Today, I'm 6 feet tall. Are you going to get me arrested?

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: No, but --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: What would happen to politicians, Donna? If you couldn't lie, you'd have no politics.

BRAZILE: There is no First Amendment --

(CROSSTALK)

PAVLICH: We are going to move on. OK, we are going to move on. Please do not miss Dana's interview tomorrow with Facebook CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, at 2:00 p.m. Eastern. Check that out. Straight ahead on THE FIVE, major Coronavirus confusion after the CDC and Dr. Anthony Fauci backtracked on some key warnings. We will tell you about that, up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRAZILE: The federal government is updating some key guidance on the Coronavirus. The CDC is now warning it may be possible to spread on surfaces after saying last week it wasn't. And there have been warnings about a potential second wave of COVID-19. Dr. Anthony Fauci said it may not happen. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: We often talk about the possibility of a second wave or of an outbreak when you're reopening. We don't have to accept that as inevitability, and particularly when people starting thinking about the fall. And I want people to really appreciate that. It could happen. But it is not inevitable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRAZILE: Dana, clearly, this novel Coronavirus, which caught all of us by surprise, even many in our government, now we understand more about this virus than we did several months ago. Of course, over 100,000 of our fellow citizens have died during this period. But what do you think of the CDC updating its guidelines that they issued just a week ago?

PERINO: Well, all of us would have had a lot more information if China hadn't obscured and basically tried to prevent the rest of the world from knowing what was happening. If China had the ability -- if they had been willing to do what was right rather than to try to protect the Chinese Communist Party, we would've all had more information.

We would've had it sooner. And we might've been able to figure out a way to stop travel sooner. Figure out a way to social distance sooner. We might already be reopened. And we might not even had to shut down. So there is a lot of things that could have been known if we had the cooperation of China from early on. What I am pretty shocked at is the CDC, as an institution, has communicated terribly on this from the beginning.

And I understand that they are learning as they go, but then they shouldn't tell us things and then take it back. The example on the surfaces is a really good one. Last week, on this show, we talked about how this is great news and that this could help people get back to work sooner. Because if it doesn't spread on surfaces, that means that workplaces aren't going to have to worry as much.

And people could get back to work and be more confident that they weren't going to get the virus. How can it be, that a week later that the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control, says actually it might transfer on surfaces. So yeah, we really don't know. It would be better if they just said there's a lot of things we don't know. Please keep washing your hands. Please keep social distancing.

We will get back to you as soon as we have more information. But this back- and-forth is not good for anybody.

BRAZILE: Well, Greg, do you think that the new guidelines now will stand another week from now, or should we go back to the ones we had two weeks ago?

GUTFELD: It's a good question. Fauci is like a DJ on meth. He keeps changing his tune. However, we have to understand that we are dealing with something called a novel virus. There are two elements there. Novel means new, virus means it's invisible. So it's no wonder that we're kind of flummoxed by this. If you went back a century, any horrible natural disaster, it would take weeks for the news to travel to the other parts of the country to tell you that something happened.

And then the news would kind of congeal into, like, some kind of unified mass, and you'd understand it. Today, news is like a lava lamp. You look at it. You see one shape. But if you turn around and you come back 10 minutes later, it's a different shape. It's because we really don't know. And everybody's -- the internet also kind of adds to it.

We are all learning at the same time. It's kind of interesting.

BRAZILE: Katie, what if -- what if -- you're a great communicator. What advice would you give the CDC in terms of putting out guidelines? As you all know, we rely on them to get it right. We rely on them in terms of the mass social distance and washing our hands. And now, as many states are reopening, I mean, what is the best communication strategy at this point?

PAVLICH: Well, they should definitely take Dana's advice to say that we just don't know. And there are some things that have been consistent about the guidelines they've given us that have worked throughout this process and that work for things like the flu and the common cold, and just preventing yourself from getting sick in general.

But, you know, the CDC and officials who have been putting out this guidance and definitive statements about what to do and what is true when - - and then say, well, maybe that's not so true. The problem is, is they would say, well, we're giving you what we know and we are saving people's lives from the virus, while policy has been developed both federally and at the state and local level, based on what the CDC guidelines say.

And those policies may have saved lives, but they've also ruined a lot of lives in terms of businesses being shut down, suicide hotlines being completely overrun. And so you know, it's a tough situation for any of them to be in because if you don't send a warning, then you were unprepared and there are people dying. But if you overreact, then people's lives are ruined as well.

So this idea that they've been making definitive statements that are then not true, is one that they should take moving forward and learn from it. And I think we also have to look at all the data they've been putting out, and the models that were wrong on a lot of this and all of the policies that were put in place as a result that have had some serious consequences for people all over the country.

BRAZILE: I agree with you. And lastly, Jesse, the second wave, Dr. Fauci say it's not inevitable. What do you think about this so-called second wave? Should we be worried about it?

WATTERS: Dr. Fauci, I mean, is this guy running for office because he's flip flop more than a politician? Like, this guy is supposed to be the expert. You think experts could say? I don't know. But they don't, because they're experts, and they think they know everything.

Haven't experts been taking it on the chin recently? I mean, these are the same experts that tell us global warming is going to kill us in 10 years. It's the same experts that said there's no mail fraud. Oh, actually there is. These guys don't know anything. And it's because China didn't tell us the truth, so we're trying to scramble.

But if you're an expert, you're supposed to keep the people calm and informed so they don't panic and buy toilet paper. But now, you've gone back and forth so many times, we don't believe anything you say. We don't believe -- it's like -- it's like -- and CDC is like your wife. Like, she keeps -- she keeps changing your position and acting like she's been right the whole time. Not my wife of course, but other people's wives.

GUTFELD: You're already in trouble.

BRAZILE: Oh, Jesse. Jesse, don't get into -- don't get in trouble with your wife. And look, we got -- we depend on these experts because they are saving lives.

WATTERS: No, read that line earlier.

BRAZILE: Look, ladies, growing protests in Minnesota, rightfully so, over the death of another unarmed black man in police custody. The latest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Protestors clashing with police in Minneapolis after the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who was pinned down by an officer during an arrest. Floyd lost consciousness and was later pronounced dead. The video shows the encounter. I'm going to warn you, the video is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE FLOYD, PRONOUNCED DEAD AFTER POLICE ARREST: I can't breathe, officer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up.

FLOYD: I can't breathe. They're going to kill me, man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Four officers involved in the arrest had been fired and the FBI is now investigating. All right, so Donna, obviously horrible situation. You want to see the police body cameras and wait for an investigation before it's over, but from what it looks like there is really no reason to jam your knee into the neck of a guy who was handcuffed. What do you think?

BRAZILE: Well Jesse, let me just say this, that this is -- this is like deja vu, similar to Eric Garner in 2014. Have we learned anything? Have we learned that police must be properly trained? Have we learned that just because you have black skin doesn't mean that you should be arrested?

Mr. George, according to all of the accounts, was a young man who grew up in Houston, Texas, went to Minnesota, went to work as a security guard because he couldn't find work in Houston. He's a father. He's someone that his co-workers called him a gentle giant.

So I want to talk about him a little bit, because so often we call them black men or black women, but not talk about their lives, the lives that are now gone forever, simply because this police officer, five minutes with his knee on his neck. This is a time for us to not just take a deep breath, each of us, but to understand that people in the black community -- I'm sure I speak for not just black people, but all people, this is not right.

And those officers, I'm glad the FBI is investigating. Those offices should be arrested. They will have their due process, of course, but they should be arrested. They are paid to protect and serve all citizens. So please, please, I hope people will protest peacefully tonight.

WATTERS: Yes. And we'll follow this as it develops. Katie --yes, so do I. You know these things, it's hard to judge when you're not there, but more information is going to come out. But if someone is handcuffed on the ground, we don't know what precipitated that, we'll find out later.

But if you really feel the need to subdue this individual, you don't have to put the knee in the neck. You can put it on the back or you could just rest your foot there. I just -- it seems like a really extremely aggressive move.

PAVLICH: Yes. Look, the video footage that we have is really terrible and awful. And every one of these situations is different. And I think we need to wait for more information. But the initial footage of what we have looks really awful and terrible, and that why the officers have been fired. And if they were criminally liable, I hope that they are charged and held responsible for that.

But I do want to say, Donna, that, you know, I think there's a lot of white Americans too, who don't think that this is OK. And I hope that you know, we can all learn from the situation. But I don't think that -- you know, I think as a community and everybody looks at it, and it's a very difficult thing to watch and to stomach. So I would say that there are people who share that sentiment with you who don't necessarily share the same skin color.

WATTERS: Yes. Greg Gutfeld, what was your reaction when you watch the video?

GUTFELD: Well, I do think it's -- it is hard for a lot of people not to see race in this. In an ideal world, we wouldn't see race, we will just see a horrifying event. And I think that's what Katie is trying to say. What I would look at is something that isn't about race, but it's about a weird phenomenon in life. I call it the unbending mind. It's often the product of a system in which the goal cannot allow for any deviation.

There's a lot of minor examples that you come across in life. When a traffic warden is writing you a ticket, they're not going to listen to you. When you're on an automated helpline, no matter what you do, you can't get them to change. So it's a procedure and I'm talking about what is happening when we're talking about that knee jamming procedure.

So in this case, that has been taught, and it's enforced. And it's unbending in the sense that no matter what a bystander was saying, the anguish of the man on the ground is completely ignored because it's an unbending mind. It's the product of a system that cannot change and that cannot deviate.

And whenever you see something like that, it's never going to go right. It's never going to go right. Every system has to have a way out. Every system has to allow you to adjust and change what you're going to do IF you see it going the wrong way. I mean, this was a horrible event that could have been stopped if somebody listened. But they were involved in a unbending procedure that didn't allow them.

And true to what -- and what you guys were saying, we don't know what happened before. Was he resisting arrest? Is there going to be more tape that we're going to see? I think you can look at this and be horrified, at the same time curious about what happened before.

WATTERS: All right, Dana Perino.

PERINO: Well, and when I heard Donna say was that she was speaking not just for African Americans but for all people, and I think that's -- no matter who you are, if you have a heart and you're watching this, and as you said, every time we show the video we have to say warning, it's tough, and it is a very tough video to watch.

What I think is interesting is you know, for a long time we've had African Americans try to explain what it is like to feel like they are targeted by police. And we have a lot of Facebook -- excuse me, iPhone or cellphone video now that we never had in decades before. So imagine if that had existed before.

I think that the fact that we have this technology now might actually help us get past this because it is pretty sad that on a day when we're -- you know, we've made so much progress as a human race, and also here in America, look at this ingenuity that we have with this great space rocket that's going to go into orbit, and yet we still have problems like this happening with police with a non-violent offender, who is saying that he can't breathe and there's four officers who, as Greg was saying, like they're not listening as if they don't care.

And I don't know if even -- I don't -- whatever happened before, it didn't mean that he should have this result that he should have died because of it. He was subdued. He was on the ground.

BRAZILE: He called out his mama.

PERINO: He has his handcuffs. What else is he going to do to them?

BRAZILE: He called out his mom before he died.

WATTERS: All right, very tragic situation.

BRAZILE: And he said, sir. He said, sir. He called out his mom and he said, sir, before he died. Those were his dying last words. He called out his mom, and he said, sir. Remember that.

WATTERS: It's very sad. All right, we will. More fallout over a viral video showing a racially charged confrontation over leashing a dog. What do you see this?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: By now, you've seen the video of that Central Park lady who when asked by a birdwatcher to leash her dog, called the cops on him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to tell them there's an African-American man threatening my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please tell them whatever you like.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's an African American man right here in Central Park. He's recording me and threatening myself and my dog. I'm sorry, I can't hear that. I've been threatened by a man into the ramble. Please send the cops immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That poor dog. She seemed fixated by race. You could say that's part of ID-ing someone to the police, but it sounded more like she was using it to gin up a false allegation. Along with horrible manhandling her poor dog, she became the prime example of what people call a Karen, a person quick to complain to the manager, the dope who makes a scene about nothing, and not much of a dog owner.

It backfired. She lost her job and her dog. Is there any sense of satisfaction to be found in this? Maybe. She seems the type who no doubt has dished out the grief she's getting now. And her mistake isn't small if this hadn't been filmed. The black man could have been arrested. She could have lied some more shots could have been fired. Instead, the phone saved him and ruined her.

So is this damage proportional? She is a jerk and oddball and maybe even a bigot. But she apologized profusely. So why not forgive her? Because that's what the birdwatcher did of her apology. He said, "if it's genuine, and if she plans on keeping her dog on a leash in the ramble going forward, then we have no issues with each other."

Now, that's not bad. If he can do it, so can you. And if you don't, then you're kind of being a Karen too, a judgmental person embracing outrage because it feels good. So don't be a bully. Be the birdwatcher, and remember, we all have bad days. Lucky for us, a lot of them never get filmed.

Jesse, everybody knows a Karen. Sometimes people even are Karens. Are you a Karen sometimes?

WATTERS: I'm not going to answer that stupid question. I will tell you this. I'm not crazy about either of these people. Number one, the guy's a bird watcher. I mean, how many birdwatchers are in prison right now? Probably zero. They're the most peaceful people in the world, OK. She didn't need to do that. I guess she shouldn't have played the race card and called 911. Just leash your dog and get out of there.

But he, he didn't have to post it on the internet and ruin her life. And apparently, he was like trying to lure the dog was Scooby snacks to like teach her a lesson or something like that. I think they should have a beer summit and just shut up about this.

GUTFELD: I -- actually, I disagree. Katie, I think that he did the right thing. He had to post it because she was going to -- she could have framed him. And also, he actually kind of forgave her because he knows her life is getting ruined. I mean, I got to give him credit.

PAVLICH: Well, we should all be more like him. I think her behavior was absolutely disgusting. She was the one who was breaking the rules. And in general, I hate when people who break the rules and you say something to them, then they act like you're the problem. And that's exactly what she did here.

But then she upped the ante by being racist about it, and calling the police even though she was the one who was in the wrong, and it was obvious because there were signs posted everywhere. So it's unfortunate that she has faced consequences for this, but her behavior and the situation -- and as you said, she could have said a whole lot of things about what was going on. He wasn't threatening her. He was just saying, hey, could you put your dog on a leash and follow the rules.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know, Donna, so here's the big question in my mind. She did an awful thing. She's lost her job and her dog and her reputation. Does she just -- if she's not given a second chance after an apology, then what can she do? Aren't we there to give second chances?

BRAZILE: Well, look, I think Mr. Cooper has been quite gracious. He reminded me of the folks at Mother Emmanuel who forgave the man who came in and shot and killed, you know, nine people. So there's no question that, yes, you can forgive. That is written. That is something that we all believe as many of us who are Christian that you forgive.

But here's the biggest story. We do live in an extraordinary time and moment. And when she, you know, call 911 with that voice, an African American man, maybe we should just remind her that so many African American men and women have been murdered and killed simply because they exist.

So I hope people learn something from this and that we're not talking about it two, three days from now. And no, we should not threaten her life. And no, she should be able to say I'm sorry and get back to work at some point.

GUTFELD: Dana, his name is Christian so he could do something very Christian. Well, I bet you were disgusted by the way the dog was handled.

PERINO: Well, I think that if -- here's what I would say to all dog owners. I know it's tempting and I've done too. You let your dog off the leash because you want to let them have some freedom. If she had just put the dog on the leash. She wouldn't have been -- have been holding it by the collar. She could have walked away, she would still have her job, she would still have her dog. And now the dog doesn't have as a mom either, so it's a terrible situation all around.

GUTFELD: Yes. All right, "ONE MORE THING" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "ONE MORE THING." Greg?

GUTFELD: It's time to be fast. It's time to be really fast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Animals are great. Animals are great. Animals are great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: All right, here's the dog just hanging out. And oh, damn, he gets surprised. He's having a great time with his owner, and then, what's that over there? A cats. Look at that. Look at it. You can't beat that. One more time and then I'm going to stop. I could watch this every day for the rest of my life. What a face.

PERINO: He is super cute. All right, Jesse.

GUTFELD: Super.

WATTERS: All right, so speaking of animals, there is a bear with the expensive taste. A bear tried to break into a Mercedes Benz in the woods in North Carolina. Watch this.

GUTFELD: A lot of screaming.

WATTERS: Look at him back away from the car like he got busted.

GUTFELD: Jesse, only you do laughing at that.

PERINO: All right. We'll have to do the other --

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