Controversy after border agents clash with caravan migrants

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Controversy after border agents clash with caravan migrants

U.S. border agents fire tear gas into Mexico to stop group of migrants from breaching border; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 26, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Kennedy, Geraldo, Dana and Greg. It's 5 o'clock in New York, and this is "The Five."

President Trump threatening to shut down the border permanently and is calling on congress to build the wall. This comes after border patrol agents fired tear gas while trying to stop migrants from the caravan from storming into the United States yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And the border patrol chief saying a tough response was necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLA PROVOST, U.S. BORDER PATROL CHIEF: Our agents were being assaulted.  A large group rushed the area and they were throwing rocks and bottles at my men and women, putting them in harm's way as well as other members of the caravan. We needed to disperse the group. And with that assault of nature, it was imperative that we disperse them from the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: And President Trump is defending the use of tear gas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: They've had to use because they were being rushed by some very tough people and they used tear gas. And here's the bottom line. Nobody is coming into our country unless they come in legally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: The president will be speaking at a rally in Mississippi this hour and we're going to be monitoring it and we'll bring you the latest.  All right. So, Geraldo, on the tear gas situation, everybody is showing in the mainstream media this one image of the mom and a young girl fleeing.  What they're not showing is that they're surrounded by almost all men who had been, you know, violently attacking and throwing things and taunting the border patrol. Do you think that's honest what the media is doing or dishonest?

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: I refused to deal with this as a media issue because it's far too important, with all due respect, Jesse. This is something that goes to the very quick, this goes to my soul.

WATTERS: But that's how --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Fulfilling my role as the designated pinata on Fox News. I want to say --

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: That's racist.

RIVERA: I am ashamed. This tear gas choked me. We treat these people, these economic refugees as if they're zombies from the Walking Dead. I think we've arrested 42 people, eight of them were women with children. We have to deal with this problem humanely and with compassion. These are not invaders. Stop using these military analogies. This is absolutely painful to watch. This is -- we're a nation of immigrants. These are desperate people. They walked 2,000 miles. Why? Because they want to rape your daughter or steal your lunch? No, because they want a job. They want to fill the millions of unfilled jobs we have in the agricultural sector.  They want to wash dishes in the restaurants. They want to deliver the pizzas. For goodness sake, I can't -- we suspend our humanity when it comes to this issue, and I fear that it is because they look different than --

GUTFELD: Geraldo, can I --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: -- because I actually -- I understand what Geraldo is saying, but you cannot demean people for looking in this and saying this is a violation of a process. I look at this and I see a bunch of good people being manipulated by a political group, an activist group. Now imagine if a group of activists hypnotize a bunch of people to rob a bank, to go in and rush the bank.

It's not the security guards fault that he has to protect the bank, and that's what they've tried to do. The activist tried to create this conflict as a way to inflame society. This is what they're doing. I want to read this. This is the lead from the San Diego Union Tribune. A group of around 100 people trying to illegally cross the border, Sunday, near the San Isidro port of entry threw rocks and bottles at the U.S. border patrol agents who then used pepper spray.

This was November 25. 2013, right? 2013, five years ago when President Obama was in power, nobody seemed to care. Where is Obama and Biden and Clinton holding now? They approved of this. Here's the -- the problem with this, they are playing upon the emotions of people. These may be good people, I agree, but they're being used. They're being used. And the only way a president can respond, Geraldo, is with law or else you encourage more of this.

RIVERA: You have the most -- the poorest people in the hemisphere living next door to the richest nation on earth --

GUTFELD: There has to be a process.

RIVERA: -- their children are hungry.

GUTFELD: There has to be a process.

RIVERA: Yes, of course there has to be a process. But we need a process that recognizes that they are part of our continent. We can pay attention to our neighbors for goodness sake. How have we destabilizes these governments over the decades?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Geraldo, you're going to bigger, bigger issues, when we're just trying to talk about, you know, a border. This isn't a media story.

WATTERS: Geraldo, with all due respect, if you're going to be a good neighbor on one side of the border, you have to be a good neighbor on the other side of the border. And if you have people throwing rocks at our border patrol agents, hitting them, and there's about 100 of them kind of climbing the wall, taunting, trying to breach, and you only have three or four border patrol agents on the other side. De-escalation tactics call for you to disperse a little tear gas in order to de-escalate the situation. What they were doing was law enforcement 101. They're just trying to protect the integrity of the border. They're not doing anything illegal, Kennedy.

LISA MONTGOMERY KENNEDY, GUEST CO-HOST: No, it's -- and I actually -- I agree with you and that the vast majority of these people want to come here to work. They want a better life for their family. And we have to have empathy for that because we are an empathetic country and were very fortunate that we are party to the forces of the free market. And that's why our economy has proliferated and they want to engage in that.

Having said that, the people who are throwing rocks and bottles and putting children's lives at risk, as individuals, they should be ashamed of themselves, because what's going to happen, it's going to justify the hardline immigration tactics that the members of this administration would like to impose. And that is a very unfortunate, unintended consequence of that behavior.

Having said that, we have to look at this and say why are -- they're bigger caravans, why are there more people? Is it just because we have more work and we're in an economic boom right now, or is there something else? And are these people being played as puppets by groups? Because I didn't think the immigration debate could get any more emotional or any less rational.  And then, you know, these things happen and it seems impossible to come to logical compromise.

WATTERS: You know, no one wants to see these images of people being tear gassed. It's not a happy sight to see. And I think everybody wants it to be solved humanely and compassionately.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: It's interesting what you've found from the Union Tribune in 2013, because I don't think -- we didn't cover it.

RIVERA: I've covered it. I've covered it. I called Obama the deporter- in-chief.

PERINO: We did call him that. I'm just saying I don't remember that incident specifically on Thanksgiving time 5 years ago. Pepper spray is use to prevent other stronger things from having to be use to -- for crowd control. I don't think any of our border patrol agents want to use pepper spray on children. Like, that's not why they are there.

I also agree with the need to try to solve the problem at its source because if you're being a good neighbor and, Geraldo, like, to your point on the bigger issue of what's happened in the past several decades in these countries, does America have a responsibility to try to help with law and order and economic development? I would say yes.

GUTFELD: But then we get criticized for doing that, correct?

PERINO: There's a circular problem there. The problem also is, one, economic. This is the busiest land crossing in the world, billions of dollars at stake. The mayor of Tijuana is basically saying I can't handle all of this and he's basically trying to hold them off. It's bad for everybody that's involved. And the Democrats seem to be unwilling to talk about the border security issue because they want to talk about the other issue. But clearly, both of these things have to be talked about at the same time.

Another thing just to keep in mind, this Saturday is the inauguration of the new president of Mexico. And there's going to be a lot of attention.  There's a lot of media focus. And there are elements within the caravan that are pushing for more media attention and stronger issues, and so I hope were not back here next Monday talking about this but we could be.

GUTFELD: Can I ask Geraldo. You know, we all know immigrants who waited in line and did the right thing. My wife is one of them.

RIVERA: Really?

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: I have no idea.

GUTFELD: Yeah. It took her a couple years to become a citizen. She took a test -- and your husband as well. It must be infuriating to see people cut in line. And they're able-bodied men out there that could actually go through a process but instead they're doing this. I would assume that most immigrants, most of them must be like, screw that. I waited in line.

RIVERA: You know, the problem with -- that systemic approach. And I sympathize with people who are inpatient because they have been following the process. Latin America has been absolutely screwed when it comes to immigration. There was the quotas. There was the racism that marked it for generations. They were excluded. There was no Ellis Island for Mexico or Central America. They -- and remember, the huge chunks of our southwest used to belong to Mexico. So they didn't cross over the border, some of them. The border crossed over them.

GUTFELD: Can we give California back?

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: Not a bad idea. But my point is that these are the forgotten people. These are the people that before 9/11, that border was so open. I went to the University of Arizona, 60 miles to Nogales, Mexico. They came for the harvest. They went home. They came for the planting. They went home. They came -- this job, they went home. There was an ebb and flow.  A natural ebb and flow. Our G.I.'s went to war, they came and filled the role of our G.I.'s and the plants and so forth. There has to be a hemisphere or regional parlay with the president.

And just one other thing I want to say. And, you know, I love the president, but George W. Bush had the tone that this Republican president could and should have on this issue. It is the feeling of compassion. It is OK, let's work this out. That these people aren't murderers, you know, they're hardened criminals, the 500 of them, you know. Where do we get these facts from?

GUTFELD: OK. What you're saying I agree with. I think -- this is a culture that assimilates. When they come to America, they're conservative.  They're hard workers. They are like 1950's Americans. They want to have families. They want to have jobs. By manipulating it in this fashion, it hurts them because it makes these immigrants seem like they are assaulting our border --

RIVERA: I agree.

WATTERS: I mean, and the people in the front of the caravan that did the assault, they give everybody in the back half a bad name. But, Geraldo, before we go, you know, you talk a lot about the compassion for people, the forgotten men and women south of the border. This president ran on representing the forgotten men and women inside of the border, the U.S. citizens that feel like they've gotten, you know, the short end of the stick from these open border policies we've had for decades. So, those are the people he's representing. Not the people from the south.

RIVERA: I have no beef with that. I just want people to know that every survey indicates that these people commit fewer crimes than citizens. When they move into a neighborhood, the neighborhood becomes safer, not more dangerous. I just want -- that's a fact.

WATTERS: It would help if they didn't, you know, act violent when they were coming in.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Are they going to get violent when they get here? All right, how far left will the Democrats go in their attempt to takedown President Trump in 2020? The answer is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The field of potential candidates aiming to take on President Trump in 2020 could be getting even bigger. Outgoing Republican Ohio governor John Kasich signaling he's seriously considering another White House run.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO: We need different leadership. There isn't any question about it. And I'm not only just worried about the tone, and the name-calling, and the division in our country, and the partisanship, but I also worry about the policies. I will have to make a decision. But let's not -- let's be clear. I'm not being coy. I'm not trying to do this for some kind of a game. This is really, really serious to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And with dozens of Democrats hinting about running for president, Hawaii senator Brian Schatz says his party will nominate a progressive to go up against Trump. So we're already talking 2020. Geraldo, I'm going to go with you first, that's your hometown --

RIVERA: It is.

PERINO: -- Governor John Kasich. But is 2020 really for the Republicans?  It's Trump or bust?

RIVERA: Well, probably. But just -- if I may give you ten seconds on Ohio, the mother of presidents. As you know, eight --

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: -- presidents have come from Ohio. It's not only the outgoing governor, but also the newly reelected senator, Sherrod Brown, on the Democratic side who defied Ohio's move to the right and was reelected handily. I think the candidate best equipped to go against President Trump will be somebody from the Midwest. Kasich did beat him in the Ohio primary you'll recall in 2016. It was kind of a hometown vote in many ways. But I think that the Republican Party, and I say this as a Republican, is now totally invested in President Trump, although he will be primaried, I believe, by Kasich, or at least he will make the faiths toward challenging him.

KENNEDY: Let me ask you this because you've seen this from the inside out.  I was thinking about this today and how vastly different the 2020 primaries are going to be versus 2016 when we've had so many Republicans running for president, they had to split up the debate stages and have the kids table, essentially. So, let's say John Kasich and Jeff Flake run, I think they're going to end up debating each other. I don't think the president will be compelled to go to a debate.

PERINO: I can of did not see it from the inside because in 2000, there was a big primary. Of course, I wasn't working there at the time, but in 2004 there was no primary challenger to President Bush. So, I don't really know what it would be like. This hasn't happened in a long time that you have a sitting president actually primaried by his own party. I do -- well, but not in our lifetime.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: She's so nice, and then she just (INAUDIBLE).

PERINO: Jesse, at this point in 2014, nobody was talking about President Trump. So on the Democratic side could it be someone no one is talking about?

WATTERS: Perhaps. I don't see anybody with any presidential timber. It's all people that -- or either has been. You can pronounce their last name.  They're afraid of Fox News. They, you know, I just don't think they have the right stuff.

RIVERA: What about Sherrod Brown?

WATTERS: My mother likes Sherrod Brown, Geraldo. So that's worrisome. I just feel like a lot of them are punch line like Pocahontas and Spartacus and Crazy Bernie. So the only person I really see running with it right now is Beto. He's the only one the Democrats are head over heels --

GUTFELD: He's a loser.

PERINO: What about Kamala Harris?

WATTERS: Kamala Harris, I think is good. I don't think she has the warmth. I think she's tenacious and can raise money and it is compelling.  But she doesn't connect with people. I don't think her personality comes across. When it does, it's not a good thing.

PERINO: Greg, your thoughts?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: OK, here's some good news. When you saw what Kasich is upset about, he mentioned tone, name-calling and division, right? OK. So his problem is Trump's persona. Good luck with that, all right. Replace those three things with these concerns, war, poverty, crime. Those are not the concerns of what we have. Right now we have a great economy.

Poverty is on the decline. Crime is on the decline. In terms of war, aside the horrors of Syria and Afghanistan which have been ongoing, where living in a pretty prosperous time. So, who would you rather have? A really nice guy like Kasich and be involved in war with a terrible economy and high crime, or a guy who is a jerk who seems to have your interests in his heart and making everything run pretty smoothly. For the Dems, if they don't nominate a progressive, they run the risk of having two candidates and that could split their base. If they do a sensible centrist, which I guess might be Brown or it could be Biden --

PERINO: Be Garcetti.

GUTFELD: Yeah. And then -- then you might have somebody go green and then they lose.

RIVERA: Biden is older than I am.

PERINO: I'm trying to understand the Garcetti appeal. So he's the mayor of Los Angeles.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He's one of the worse.

PERINO: But he keeps popping --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: So with Democrats though, the more you fail, the better you are.  And look at Cory Booker --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But you know what's great? Let's say if Trump loses, do you actually think he's going to go anywhere? I mean, we -- like, the media is addicted to him.

KENNEDY: Yes, he's going to build golf courses in Saudi Arabia.

GUTFELD: No, he will be on --

PERINO: And North Korea.

GUTFELD: -- everywhere talking about the new president.

KENNEDY: Can I just go back to Eric Garcetti, he's actually -- like, I agree, Los Angeles has turned into a dump and it's very sad because I spent the better part of my life there. It's a city that I love. He's such a natural politician, and this is something that so many people don't have (INAUDIBLE). They're lacking basic compassion and warmth and that thing where you would want somebody sit next to you and have a beer at a bar.  But Garcetti is able to speak --

PERINO: He does all that, right?

KENNEDY: Yes, to different groups of people.

PERINO: I know. I want to meet him.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: I do. I want to understand better.

RIVERA: I like him. I like him, too.

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: I've never met him and I can't stand him.

(CROSSTALK)  WATTERS: There's no Beto, Geraldo.

PERINO: There's no Beto.

WATTERS: No Beto.

PERINO: OK. Senator Schumer tried to criticize the president in a tweet, but that backfired. So, what's up, Chuck? We'll tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: It's fun watching Trump haters do his work for him. Take Chuck Schumer, suddenly the president's mouthpiece. Remember when Supreme Court Justice John Roberts rebuked Trump for saying they were Obama judges.  Trump fired back basically saying, oh, come on, John. Everybody knows we have judges with political leanings. That's when Chucky steps in. As the media drooled over Roberts, Chuck angled for some spotlight with this tweet, I don't agree very often with Chief Justice Roberts, especially his partisan decision. But I'm thankful today that he almost alone among Republicans stood up to President Trump and for an independent judiciary.  So in one breath, Chuck made Trump's point perfectly. A chief justice makes partisan decisions. Then he notes Roberts' political party, revealing that Chuckie labels judges too.

Now, that's not just comical, it's progress. It used to take days between people mocking Trump over what he says, than then admitting he was right.  Now it's collapsed into mere seconds. Or as Dummy Chuck says, Trump's wrong and here's why I agree with him, which revealed something key. It's not that Trump's critics have a problem with the truth. They have a problem with Trump saying it, which is why it his own criticism of Trump's truth, Schumer accidentally for once spoke it too. Maybe he didn't mean to. But when the only thing left to say is what Trump's been saying, you had no choice, so well done, Chuck. It's like you sat in Trump's lap while he moved your mouth.

All right, I have a feeling that this, Dana, might be the tweet of the year?

PERINO: Us in the sports world, we would call this an own goal.

GUTFELD: Oh, really?

PERINO: We would do that. I do think though that President Trump would be better off on this case, many cases, arguing on the merits, right? So, he's like -- instead of just saying, oh, it's because you're a Democrat you don't agree. It's like, no, you're wrong on the merits and then we'll tell you why. And we're going to appeal this and we're going to take it to the Supreme Court and we're going to win. And not make it a partisan thing because instead of talking about, well, should he win on the merits, which he might, then we're talking about this and Chuck.

GUTFELD: Yes. So, Geraldo, what I find interesting is this new weird trend where people get upset about what Trump says, and then like four days later they go, but he has a point. But the wildfires even, he had said that there was lot of mismanagement, federal and state wide, and everybody got on his case.

RIVERA: That's a good example.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

RIVERA: It's a good example.

GUTFELD: And then California even admitted it.

RIVERA: In this case, with all due respect to the chief justice, he is wrong. With all due respect to the minority leader in the senate, he is dopey wrong. As an attorney, I can tell you that lawyers for him shop.  That's what we do. You find the conservative judge, the liberal judge.  Issues like Obamacare, gay marriage, transgender right, migrant ban, these are -- they've mentioned, these are fraught political issues and that's why the president put such stock in selecting judges because he knows that they will affect the political destiny of the nation. So, to pretend that the judiciary is a political is sophomoric and naive and intentionally wrong.

GUTFELD: It's like Schumer forgot all about Obama stacking the court.

KENNEDY: But that's what every president does. The problem is the executive and legislative branch is using the judiciary to get their work done. It's incredibly lazy. And that's why I have an issue with President Trump doing this, launching executive orders on immigration, the same way I've had an issue with President Obama, because they get undone by the courts, and then they slowly have to work their way through the system, instead of crafting them the way they should.

I also have an issue with some of the things the Democrats have said about the president in regards to this partisan infighting in terms of immigration. But we're going to get to that in a little while.

Of course, there are different ways of interpreting the Constitution, and it's not necessarily liberal, and it's not necessarily conservative. But there is a difference. And an objective originalist interpretation of the Constitution tends to align more with Republicans. And, you know, those are justices like Antonin Scalia. And then there are people who see the Constitution as a living document.

GUTFELD: Living document that can be changed at any time.

KENNEDY: Like Elena Kagan, yes.

GUTFELD: Jesse.

WATTERS: I just want to address my mother. She said I used a racial slur in the last segment because I couldn't pronounce the names of some Democratic candidates. Mom, I was talking about Swalwell and Hinkenlooper [SIC]. All right. Swalwell and Hinkenlooper [SIC].

GUTFELD: That was good that you corrected that.

PERINO: It's Hickenlooper.

GUTFELD: That was good that you corrected that one.

WATTERS: I just want to correct the record.

PERINO: That's why we were dying over here.

GUTFELD: I'm going, "Oh, my God. Here it goes."

WATTERS: You guys rolled your eyes? I can never tell.

PERINO: We weren't rolling them. We were --

RIVERA: I love your mother. I would love to hear your mother speaking to you.

WATTERS: Yes, this goes to a heart emoji, Geraldo.

GUTFELD: But she had to protect -- I knew you were talking about Swalwell.  I knew that's who you were talking about.

WATTERS: Yes, you know. You know. You didn't assume I'm racist, like my mom.

And on the Schumer thing, I just want to say we're starting with the assumption that politicians are smart.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Politicians aren't smart. These are not smart people. These are not special people. Schumer, people kiss his butt, because he's powerful and he could make their lives miserable if they cross him. Thirty-year- olds do all their work for them. They take vacations half the time. They read off notes. They can't memorize anything. They don't even know what's in the bills that they pass. You have to read it to find out what's in it.

And most of these people are failed lawyers that couldn't hack it in the real world. They're robots. They're totally corny and narcissistic.  Think about how lazy, and unintellectual they are.

GUTFELD: Jeez.

WATTERS: Everything goes wrong in this country. The borders are open. We have trillions in debt. And then all of a sudden, people get mad at the politicians, and then they go, "No, it was you. It was you." And then they run for reelection.

The only thing they're good at is the raising other people's money and then spending other people's money.

RIVERA: That's why --

WATTERS: It's amazing Chuck Schumer still has this job.

KENNEDY: You just made a very libertarian argument. Thank you for that.  The failures of government.

RIVERA: That's why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is going to take over the House.

KENNEDY: Oh, good lord.

WATTERS: AOC.

GUTFELD: Yes, AOC.

RIVERA: The -- my favorite congresswoman-elect. She comes from a district, East Bronx, I know well. She's so smart. She's so motivated.  She takes all of the criticism --

GUTFELD: You're just trying to bait us, aren't you?

RIVERA: -- you direct at her --

GUTFELD: Geraldo is trying to bait us.

RIVERA: -- and it makes her stronger.

WATTERS: Yes, I agree. I like her, too. She should run.

RIVERA: She did, and she won. She beat --

WATTERS: Yes, I mean for higher office.

RIVERA: -- she beat the Democrat.

GUTFELD: I see her as -- I see her as probably up there in 2020.

WATTERS: Me, too.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: Beto and AOC.

RIVERA: You see it as the antichrist.

GUTFELD: How about AOC and Beto?

WATTERS: I love it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WATTERS: There's a ticket.

KENNEDY: Well, he is a beta, so he --

GUTFELD: yes.

KENNEDY: -- would absolutely become the subservient one.

WATTERS: Whoa.

GUTFELD: All right. Democrats now claiming President Trump is to blame for the caravan and the chaos at the border.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: BOB DYLAN, "FOREVER YOUNG")

RIVERA: My favorite song. Bob Dylan.

Amid the chaos at the border, some Democrats are accusing President Trump and Republicans of using the situation down there to advance their political agenda rather than actually change immigration laws. Here, for instance, Congresswoman Maxine Waters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS, D-CALIF.: All of this has been a political ploy of the president of the United States of America. He made this the central part of his platform, that he was going to do something about these migrants who are coming here. Now we have this chaos. That's what he wants. He wants to stoke fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: All right, that's the House. On the Senate side, fellow Democrat Amy Klobuchar is also slamming the president, claiming he is the biggest obstacle, rather, to Congress passing a sweeping border security bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR, D-MINN.: My mom taught second grade until she was 70 years old, and she always told me if you do something wrong, you don't tell the truth, you take responsibility for it. You don't blame it on the other kid.

That's exactly what he's doing here. He has gut-punched us on that a number of times. We have the will to put the money at the border for better security. He has chosen instead to weaponize this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: All right. I think that the Democrats and the Republicans are equally at fault, Kennedy. And a plague on both their houses. What say you?

KENNEDY: Absolutely right, and this is why people hate Congress. Because they're not doing anything. They're so busy emotionalizing this issue: the border, immigration, everything else. And if you could have a couple of smart people. Jesse said that there is a dearth of smart people in Congress. I understand that. But if the few could get together and say, OK, here's where we agree. Here's what we absolutely have to do in order to have a functioning immigration system."

And I think it's impossible at this point to have comprehensive immigration reform. You're not going to get eight things done in one bill. So you really can prioritize it and do the three most important things.

And if she -- she is being genuine as she talks about wanting some of the same things as the president and wanting money to beef up security at the border, then sit down with him and come up with a package.  But they're so worried about giving the president a win that they would rather people suffer instead of having any sort of resolution on the issue.

RIVERA: Compromise means both sides are dissatisfied.

Here's this. So you build the wall; give amnesty to the DREAMers. You restart the bracero programs where we flew in temporary workers to harvest and sort fort, then flew home at the end of the season. And you invest regionally in Central America to give them NAFTA-type jobs in factories in their home countries. What do you think of that compromise?

WATTERS: Well, add merit-based and get rid of the lottery, and we have a deal, Geraldo.

RIVERA: OK.

WATTERS: Let's go down to the swamp and get it done.

You know, I think right now you have big business wants the open borders.  And then the radical left wants the open borders. And no one wants to do immigration reform a la carte.

If you're going to fix these loopholes, you can do that a la carte. It's a few simple fixes. They could do that on a few pages.

The Democrats need cover in order to vote for that, because they'll say, "OK, if we're going to do any sort of border enforcement, you've got to give us amnesty or something like that."

The Republicans, if they're going to get that, they're not going to vote amnesty. The hardliners are not going to give that. So you never -- and it loads up some massive comprehensive immigration bill that gets just so ugly no one's ever going to vote for it.

And right now, the right wing of the base, they look at these images and they go, "You know what? We were right. This caravan, bunch of invaders.  They're starting trouble. We've got to secure the border."

And then the left goes, "You know, we were right. Donald Trump hates immigrants. He's tear-gassing kids. And he's mean, and you should vote for us.

RIVERA: Separating families.

WATTERS: So, you know, both sides politically prosper from the chaos, and they're going to do that until 2020.

RIVERA: Dana, what about Kennedy's point that neither side wants to give the other one a win that a compromise would represent.

PERINO: That's been true for a long time. You can go back to the 2007 failure, and that was really, I think -- I lay the failure of the feet of Harry Reid and Barack Obama at that time. Ted Kennedy was actually trying to help.

By the way, I was alive when Ted Kennedy primaried Jimmy Carter.

RIVERA: I was wondering how young we are.

PERINO: Sorry. So I'm going to correct my -- correct the record here.

RIVERA: I said, "She's younger than my shoes."

PERINO: I think there needs to be an ambassador amongst the Democrats.  Who could it possibly be that could say, "I'll go. I'll go to the White House. I'll try to work this out."

And I don't think that it is somebody in Congress. I think it's a governor. And I would say that governor-elect Gavin Newsom has the political credibility in the bank --

RIVERA: Cool.

PERINO: -- to be able to take it and just to say, "Look, I'm bringing all these House Democrats along with me. Right?" There's hardly any Republicans left in California anyway. And just say, "Mr. President, we're here. We'll negotiate with you and we'll try to get this done." That way you actually solve a problem and you actually set --

KENNEDY: OK, well, what if -- to your point, I think that's a really good idea, because I think actually, right now the young relationship that they've got, Newsom --

PERINO: Yes, they had a good trip. Yes.

KENNEDY: -- and the president have a good rapport. He's from a border state.

PERINO: Yes.

KENNEDY: But could you do something like that just with California and see.

RIVERA: You could ask Kimberly.

KENNEDY: OK. See how something like that works. And then, you know, is that something that you could apply to a larger program? I actually think that that's a very --

PERINO: All right, so Gavin, call me.

RIVERA: All right. Are you kind of curmudgeoning on this issue?

GUTFELD: I'm going to go -- I'm going to go dark. I'm going to go very dark.

I don't think that this is about immigration at all. It's part of a bigger assault on -- if you look at -- if you look at the hard left and how they treat law enforcement in the last five or six years, how they look at the border, how they look at opposing perspectives -- going to people's houses, attacking them at restaurants -- the left has sanctioned an idea of assault on our country. Large and small in different ways. It's about dismantling the process and energizing a certain kind of chaos.

It's because the left, they want the French Revolution. We're about the American Revolution, right? When we became a country, we created a process that would ensure survival. The French Revolution just said, "Kill them all. Figure it out later." And I think that we have a nihilistic left -- a nihilistic left-wing movement that wants to --

RIVERA: So you're being just as partisan as these people you're criticizing?

GUTFELD: No, no, no, I actually -- I'm not even thinking about the right.

WATTERS: He is above partisanship, Geraldo.

GUTFELD: Thank you, Jesse.

RIVERA: He's dragging us into the muck of it.

GUTFELD: No, no. What I'm telling you, it's textbook nihilism. They want to --

WATTERS: Textbook nihilism, Geraldo. Get it through your head.

RIVERA: I've got to look up that -- let me see if my textbook has that written in it.

But you have to compromise. You have to have pain on both sides.

GUTFELD: No, the point is, I don't believe there will be compromise. I'm pessimistic.

RIVERA: And then it's all the left's fault?

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: Come on, dude.

GUTFELD: Finally, Geraldo --

RIVERA: Dude.

GUTFELD: -- you agree with me.

KENNEDY: And by the way --

RIVERA: Barbra Streisand certainly wouldn't agree with him. She's attacking women who voted for the president. That's ahead on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: PRINCE, "WHEN DOVES CRY")

KENNEDY: That's right. If you are a woman who voted for President Trump, turns out you are too stupid to make your own decisions. Congratulations, ladies.

This according to Barbra Streisand. The pro-Clinton singer slamming female Trump supporters, telling The Daily Mail, quote, "A lot of women vote the way their husbands vote. They don't believe enough in their own thoughts.  Maybe that woman who's so articulate, so experienced and so fit for the presidency" -- Hillary -- "was too intimidating."

Or she was one of the very worst candidates to ever seek the highest office in the land.

So Jesse, I will go to you. Are women too dumb to think for themselves as Barbra Streisand thinks? Positive here.

WATTERS: Well, what a layup, Kennedy. You know, half the husbands I know, they're so whipped, their wives tell them who to vote for.

I mean, I know husbands that stay at home. I know husbands that their wives make more than they do. I mean, I know so many husbands that do whatever their wives want. I think she's got it totally wrong. She's stuck in a time warp.

What this is all about is that Democrats still can't wrap their head around the fact that women didn't vote for Hillary because they didn't like Hillary.

KENNEDY: Yes.

WATTERS: They didn't love Trump, but they really just didn't like Hillary.  So they're having PTSD from that and what they're doing, they're also gender shaming towards 2020. And they're saying, "Hey, we're watching you, ladies. We're watching you in two years."

KENNEDY: Yes. That's why a lot of powerful, successful women don't consider themselves feminists, because they became powerful and successful by breaking the mold and not giving into groupthink. And they have a natural curiosity, which Barbra Streisand, who is powerful and successful, doesn't seem to understand, which makes her hypocrite.

She also says that she has been having cravings since the president was elected, and she has been indulging in pancakes.

PERINO: Specifically, buckwheat pancakes.

KENNEDY: Do you know -- do you understand the correlation there?

PERINO: I don't understand -- I don't exactly.

WATTERS: Those are good.

PERINO: She said buckwheat pancakes and I put them -- butter on them and maple syrup to ease the pain.

KENNEDY: Yes.

PERINO: This is not the first time that she has said something like this and that, like, this has been going back for -- for a few decades, right?  That if you are a Republican woman and you vote Republican, then surely somebody is controlling your brain. It must be your husband, because you are so dependent on him.

It's not true in most cases of anyone that I've ever known, and including the family that I grew up in in Wyoming. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Now they do have -- the Democrats are looking at a major gender gap.

RIVERA: You mean the Republicans?

CAMEROTA: Well, the Democrats are looking at Republicans and saying, "Aha, we've got you now." And they might.

KENNEDY: But do they? Yes?

PERINO: I don't know.

KENNEDY: You have to run -- you have to run the right candidate. Now, you know Barbra Streisand.

RIVERA: Yes, I do.

KENNEDY: And you know that --

RIVERA: We were neighbors and --

KENNEDY: In Malibu.

RIVERA: -- good friends for many years, yes.

KENNEDY: So has she lost her mind or that just -- is this just an -- ?

RIVERA: My wife said, "You'd better not dis Barbra." I'll show you. I just got this from my wife.

WATTERS: And you're going to do what she says, right?

RIVERA: I am, and I usually do.

There is no doubt but that for women of childbearing age, there is a loathing for the 45th president that knows no bounds. The only thing I can possibly compare it to is how people felt about Richard Nixon in the height of Watergate.

KENNEDY: Wow.

RIVERA: They hate President Trump. There's no doubt about it.

And insofar as, you know, women being in lockstep with their husbands, those who voted for President Trump, in my family, the women make those decisions. I swear to God my wife, Erica, sent my then-11-year-old daughter, Sol, into the voting booth with me to make sure I did not vote for my dear friend, President Trump.

KENNEDY: All right. So Greg, let me ask you this.

GUTFELD: Yes.

KENNEDY: Because now we are -- we are facing a crossroads. We're in the middle of a gender war. Where do we go from here? Do we elect Barbra Streisand president in 2020?

GUTFELD: Either her or Bette Midler. I can't tell the difference.

I mentioned before, the worst sexists against women are, in fact, women.  Because this equation is, if you disagree with me, it's because you're a weak woman controlled by your man. Perhaps the most sexist thing you can say, and it's coming from another women [SIC].

I would venture to say that conservative and libertarian men hold women in higher respect than any liberal individual, because we don't see you as a political pawn. We actually see you as a person with a brain. And actually, to Jesse's point, we happily hand over power.

WATTERS:  Yes.

GUTFELD: We're not some kind of -- to believe -- To still believe in this patriarchal B.S. that men are, like, walking around -- like where have you been?

WATTERS: If there's a gender war, we surrender.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WATTERS: You guys can take it.

KENNEDY: It is a very --

RIVERA: It's generational. You guys are --

KENNEDY: It's a very outdated worldview, and projecting that on all women is offensive.

RIVERA: Yes, but it is outdated, but it is real.

KENNEDY: "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: It's time now for "One More Thing." I have a very big surprise, so I'm going to go last.

KENNEDY: Wow.

WATTERS: First --

KENNEDY: Is it your hair?

WATTERS: -- we're going to go -- No, bigger -- to Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. I'm very happy for this. It's time for --

GRAPHIC: Animals are Great!

GUTFELD (singing): -- "Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

(speaking): I always wanted to have a kids' program.

KENNEDY: Oh, boy.

GUTFELD: All right. This hamster is great.

WATTERS: Oh, really?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(HAMSTER WALKING THROUGH DOLL HOUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And you know why? Because he shows you how to inspect a home properly. Now, when you're looking at an open House, don't be afraid to open up the doors and go into the bathrooms, in the closets. Always look for other compartments. I didn't do that, and I was surprised on the closing.

PERINO: And then you have the flood.

GUTFELD: And then I had the flood in that ceiling, and the ceiling collapsed. So that's what you do, and that's a great, great hamster. And by the way, I don't say that very often, and that's why --

GRAPHIC: "Animals Are Great!"

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great! Animals are great! Animals are great!

WATTERS: Stay away from --

PERINO: So I just want to say I didn't have a great "One More Thing," but I went to two plays on Broadway this --  GUTFELD: Two?

PERINO: -- over the holiday weekend. I went to two. I went to "The Play That Goes Wrong," and I went to "The Ferryman." I recommend both of them.

But I have to tell you, every time I go this happens to me. I think I've done this as "One More Thing" before. This guy -- he's 6'8" -- sat in front of me at the play.

GUTFELD: That's Brit Hume.

PERINO: And he was very rude and said, "Oh, sorry, we grow them big in our family."

And I said, "OK."

KENNEDY: Weirdos.

PERINO: Then the next night at "The Ferryman," when -- or the other time when I went -- the guy sat in front of me, and bring the camera back to me.  OK, please. Back to me. So this guy is sitting -- imagine this big head in front of you, and every ten seconds, he's like this.

GUTFELD: Tick-tocking.

PERINO: And I had to go around and around, and it's just -- Broadway.  This is why people watch at home.

KENNEDY: That's the deep state.

WATTERS: Deep state.

RIVERA: That's 200 bucks a ticket. Kennedy.

KENNEDY: Well, I've had too much wild turkey and run off with the gang. A peacock ran off with a gang of wild turkeys. Renee and Bryan Johnson in Vermont are desperate for Pea, their peacock, to come back to them, because about six weeks ago, he started flirting with the turkeys down the road, because his brother, his younger brother, the peacock, died, and the chickens wouldn't have him.

So we ran off with these turkeys. They see him there in the tree --

PERINO: Oh, so they want him back.

KENNEDY: -- and they're like, "Come home, little buddy."

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great.

KENNEDY:  And they know he was still alive, because they could hear his --

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great!

WATTERS (singing): Animals are great! That is stuck in my head, and I hate that.

KENNEDY: He flew up in a tree when he saw Greg coming, because --

GUTFELD: Animals --

KENNEDY: -- he was worried that he was going to be corralled inappropriately.

RIVERA: Really quickly, I spent part of Thanksgiving weekend on the water.  I love my boat. Came down the -- taking a selfie, of course. Came down the Gulf side, then went across the Caloosahatchee River to Lake Okeechobee, to the Atlantic side through that great canal, right through the middle of Florida. And then I got to the marina in Palm Beach near Mar-a-Lago, and it was beautiful. And we ended it with a wonderful dinner at the Breakers.

WATTERS: Yachting "One More Things."

RIVERA: I love my gals.

GUTFELD: Yachting "One More Things."

WATTERS: All right. Major personal announcement for me. Emma and I have purchased a puppy. We have purchased a puppy.

KENNEDY: It's a big deal. Wait, you don't even like dogs.

WATTERS: I do like dogs now. The puppy's name is Rookie.

RIVERA: Who says?

WATTERS: There's Rookie.

KENNEDY: You are so whipped.

WATTERS: I am not. This was -- this is --

KENNEDY: You have a puppy. You don't even like dogs.

WATTERS: I do like dogs.

KENNEDY: That is so cute.

WATTERS: I love this dog. It's a mini poodle. His name is Rookie. It's a boy. And it's already trained. The guy's a genius.

GUTFELD: It's already trained!

WATTERS: Already -- you know why, Greg?

KENNEDY: Congratulations.

WATTERS (singing): Animals are great!

GUTFELD (singing): Animals are great!

PERINO: I want to meet him.

WATTERS: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next.

Bret?

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Congrats on the puppy. Thanks, Jesse.

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