CNN faces credibility crisis over Trump coverage

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CNN faces credibility crisis over Trump coverage

Undercover video appears to show Van Jones dismissing Trump-Russia story as a 'nothing burger'; reaction and analysis on 'The Five'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 28, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Another day, another scandal for CNN. Today, Project Veritas, the conservative investigative group released a video of prominent CNN left wing contributor Van Jones apparently downplaying the significance of the Russia investigation. FOX News hasn't verified the authenticity of the video but a man who appears to be Van Jones is heard saying, quote, "The Russia thing is just a big nothing burger."

The video is released just a day after Project Veritas put out a separate undercover video of CNN help producer John Bonifield calling the Russia story b.s. This, despite the networks nearly nonstop coverage of the investigation into possible collusion between the Russians and then- candidate Trump's campaign. And that's not all.

Yesterday, we told you how three CNN journalists resigned over a retracted article that said a Trump advisor was under investigation for ties to a Russian investment funds. "The New York Post" is reporting that CNN only retracted the article after it was threatened with legal action. Take a listen to how radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh is reacting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Could Donald Trump be the end of CNN? What a legacy that would be.

I think that is what the Trump administration is doing with many in the media. They are like cats. He's got this little red laser light and it's just causing him to make fools of themselves that everyone is laughing at them as they're crashing into walls, the sofa and the floor. And that is what little Jim Acosta had happened to him yesterday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, the news of the developments. Yet another layer to the CNN problem, the network under siege. Greg, your thoughts.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, it's tempting to rip CNN to shreds given the pleasure they took to our travails. Or every Sunday that human thumb Brian Stelter would go off on us and it's not a nothing burger, it's a nothing caviar. I will defend Van Jones in the sense that I don't think he was ever on the Russian Trump thing, the narrative of the network. Definitely, they are pushing this. But he always seemed more measured of the crew that he kind of, so I don't think he's being a hypocrite.

And so I have to praise him for being consistent off-camera and on camera because like I said, this will happen to us. If you aren't consistent on camera and off-camera, and you say you're for something in the green room and you're against it when you are here, you deserve to be called out. I don't think that happened to Van Jones. One other point. I find it interesting how the media loves this kind of stuff when they aren't the target.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-hm.

GUTFELD: Decades of consumer journalism were born from 60 minutes. Every local TV news station had a consumer reporter that would dog some poor guy at a supermarket because he sold milk at the sale date. And it was like, you know, it was just ridiculous and absurd, until then, you know, it happens to them. And then it's like I hate this.

GUILFOYLE: Well, CNN is doing a pretty good job of kind of doing themselves and with this. Dana, a lot of people in the work there concerned about, you know, credibility, because this is a blow in terms of the news organization. You want your viewers to trust you, and that you're going to in fact, you know, deliver the news and have accurate sources. It's what, you know, we all try to do and scribe to do.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, certainly and I think that one of the reasons they're upset is because I would say probably 98 percent of the people at CNN do try to do that. I mean, they do a lot of original reporting. Right? They are all over the world. They're trying to do something. They did something terribly wrong.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-hm.

PERINO: They apologize for it. They fired three people. Whether it's because on the merits of the journalistic integrity or because they were worried about a lawsuit. And the threat of it, that's actually kind of interesting. I would love to learn a little bit more about that. But I also think about Van Jones. You know, we just showed a clip of him within the last two weeks when he was at that big Democratic convention meeting.

WATTERS: Yes.

PERINO: Where he basically was saying to all of them like, stop the Russia thing because we are going to lose. We are seating the policy ground while everyone is going to be talking about health care or helping the working class, we are all talking about Russia and you just burned a billion dollars on an election that didn't actually help us advance the ball. So, I think he has actually been consistent. And it's kind of a bummer that you can't feel like you have any privacy whatsoever in any of your conversations, but I guess for him, I do think that he has been consistent.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, what do you make of this latest development with Van Jones? Do you agree with Greg, that he was never really one that was out in front on Russia?

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I'm sure you can find some tape of Van Jones saying some pretty horrific things about Trump and Russia. So, I let the people on the internet find those and then embarrassed CNN.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: And get back to in two minutes.

WATTERS: Exactly. Trump reminds me of roadrunner. So, he runs really fast, and then CNN's Wile E. Coyote. Wile E. Coyote chases roadrunner over the edge of a cliff, and then all of a sudden, Wile E. Coyote looks down and there's nothing underneath. That is CNN right now.

GUILFOYLE: Splat.

WATTERS: Splat. And they hit the pavement and then they try again. But Trump has this effect on people. You know, Rush was talking about the laser beam, and I've said it before that Trump brings out the best in people and the worst in people. Right now he's bringing out the worst in CNN. Not only are they fake news, they are very fake news. And it's hard to defend your integrity when you are firing three people, when some of your best and brightest "analysts," I put that in quotations are saying something that is directly opposite from what your network has been pushing for the last couple of months. They've had a rough stretch. Kathy Griffin. Reza Aslan, the guy that called Trump a vulgarity.

GUTFELD: He is the worst.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WATTERS: Yes. He's the worst of the worst. They had to retract that whole story about the Comey memo and what he was going to say during the hearing.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WATTERS: So, they are in for a little rough stretch -- courtesy of James O'Keefe. And, you know, everybody has to watch what they say because you never know when a camera is going to be there.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Juan, hello.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Hi.

GUILFOYLE: Good evening.

WILLIAMS: So, I just think this is an overreaction. I mean, I'm amazed that anybody thinking that the media doesn't make mistakes, gee, welcome, the media makes mistakes all the time. It's just like talking to your friends on Facebook or anywhere else.

GUILFOYLE: Not like this.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm telling you, these are very good reports, they made a mistake, and guess what. We know networks, and we know newspapers that have had to retract stories and haven't fired people and haven't apologized. But guess what, these guys did it. I work for "The Washington Post," I work for NPR, I work for FOX, everybody makes mistakes. I don't think this is --

GUILFOYLE: Juan, I just want to report facts on this --

WILLIAMS: Hang on. Let me finish, Kimberly. Let me finish. This was a mistake. But let me just say to you. When I look at the reality of Trump putting up fake "Time" magazine covers, I think, oh, fake news. When I hear about Trump saying Obama was spying on him during the campaign and he can't prove anything, fake news. When he says, you know, guess what, I've got tapes on James Comey, and there's no such thing, I think fake news.

WATTERS: Okay. Everything you just said Juan was fake news.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. That is right. Trump. Trump.

WATTERS: Every single thing. If you are talking about, "Time" magazine covers, first of all --

WILLIAMS: Oh!

WATTERS: And Trump never said he has tapes on Comey. He said, I hope they're better not be.

GUTFELD: I hope they're better not be.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: And chase that rabbit for three weeks.

WILLIAMS: Everybody watching can see right through this.

GUTFELD: No, but the truth, Juan. He said I hope there aren't tapes, which created all of this stuff!

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, yes, yes.

GUTFELD: But you can't tell the difference between that, Juan? You can't mock that.

WILLIAMS: I'm not mocking it. Because guess what, he was trying to either bully or intimidate, Greg. He was playing word games. And apparently he doesn't have the tape.

WATTERS: Maybe he's the biggest bully out there, Juan. They were trying to get him impeached --

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

WATTERS: Finally Trump hits the bully back in the face and the bully doesn't know what to do anymore.

WILLIAMS: Oh, is that it?

WATTERS: That's what's happening out there.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That really what's happening?

GUILFOYLE: By the way, when people make an innocent mistake, versus willful, deliberate, intentional decision to put forth a story that they know they didn't have the evidence or the facts to back up because it was untrue, then you get fired. For an innocent mistake, you don't lose your job.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

GUILFOYLE: Three people that I've been there. I am telling you --

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. Okay. Look at conservative media.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Okay. Kimberly, look at conservative media in this rich story.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Do, you think conservative media is out there firing people because of this? No, I don't think so. I think they said, you know, all right, so maybe we made a mistake. Let's move on. Fine. Everybody makes mistakes.

GUILFOYLE: Again, this is not a mistake.

WILLIAMS: This is not a huge conspiracy.

GUILFOYLE: Again, this is not a mistake.

WILLIAMS: To me, the big stories here, Kimberly is this. Right now, people are trying in the conservative media to put CNN back on its heel and underplay the idea that there's any legitimacy to this Trump investigation.

WATTERS: Of course, CNN, Juan, we should really feel bad for CNN.

WILLIAMS: No, it's fine.

WATTERS: They did whatever President Obama wanted for the last eight years. And then all of a sudden they tried to get Trump out of office. They are making mistakes left and right. We call them out, and then they are saying woe is me. Come on, Juan! It's a tough business. CNN has a tough enough and stop acting like everybody has to feel sorry for them.

WILLIAMS: Nobody is feeling sorry for them. But I think --

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He's acting like they are the biggest victims out there.

WILLIAMS: No, but I think they are bullied.

GUILFOYLE: And he had to essentially make a retraction as well, when they tried to push back on the story as well, we don't know.

WILLIAMS: I think what you said at the top was right. They go after people like FOX all the time.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: They delight whenever we have troubles. So, okay. But let's not go overboard.

GUTFELD: Yes. But the other thing I said, it's not about Van Jones. It's about the narrative. What CNN did, which is bigger than all of this, was to chase a narrative instead of the facts. They couldn't find the facts.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: So they ran with the story anyway. And I get it. They did it for ratings. Trump delivers ratings. It's why all of the networks are going up.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

GUTFELD: But the interesting thing about FOX News, is we don't chase ratings, Trump just brings them. And if you just cover the news, if you just cover what Donald Trump is doing, your ratings will be fine. You don't have to create a story that doesn't exist.

GUILFOYLE: Right. So, that's not a mistake.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: That is willful and intentional choice to push a story and a narrative regardless if there are facts to support it. Those are fireable offenses.

GUTFELD: No, they got fired.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I'm agreeing with you.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: I'm saying this is not a mistake. A mistake is like, okay, by accident I took a bite of Jesse's sandwich because I thought it was mine.

GUTFELD: You wouldn't do that.

GUILFOYLE: You're right. I did the whole thing.

WATTERS: Juan, Juan --

WILLIAMS: Nobody says I'm going to do something to get fired.

WATTERS: Juan, you know what this is like, this is like during the subprime mortgage crisis. You have J.P. Morgan and whoever pushing all these phony loans and you have one of their biggest executives caught on tape saying, you know what, these loans are bogus. They're bogus. And their entire company is pushing subprime loans. This is what happened here.

WILLIAMS: It's not the entire company. So, all of CNN is bogus now?

WATTERS: Juan, did you understand my analogy?

WILLIAMS: Yes. But I mean, they're not all --

GUTFELD: It's not a good analogy.

WATTERS: How about it was pretty good.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Dana, here's the big question. They've had obviously a bad run with all of these that they have done and they kind of hopefully they learned and they can move forward. However, what do they do as a network in terms of like communicating to their viewers, the people, so that they don't lose viewership. How did they get themselves out of this kind of p.r. mess or crisis?

PERINO: Well, I'm not really in the business of helping CNN get more viewers.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Okay. Say something --

PERINO: But I would say, one of the things that they've done -- one of the things they did is that they have not pushed back or retaliated in any way against the people who have been in these videos. So, they are saying the diversity of opinions is important to us. It's okay that people in our newsroom have lots of different opinions. Like, in that video the first one that we showed yesterday, the young man is saying that what he thought was more important as a story was climate change.

And he says that he was frustrated because Zucker said no, go back to Russia. And I think Zucker whether he was making a business decision or wanted to get back on the preferred narrative, I don't know. But look, I fight with the producers every day about 100 stories that are in the national review.

GUTFELD: But we can't do job stories in every block, Dana.

PERINO: I sent a really good one about what was happening in Austin and Uber. I sent that this morning at 6:30.

GUILFOYLE: That was very interesting.

PERINO: So, there are lots of different opinions, and I think that look, when you are a 24/7 news channel, you have to put product on the air every minute of the day. And you just have to do better. Like, I think that we all wake up every day and we are excited about our jobs, and we all want to do a good job.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: So, I don't think there's any different over there, but I guess they had to try and keep their employees solid first.

GUILFOYLE: Right. But the problem is if they were chasing ratings regarding Russian report collusion which we have seen on --

PERINO: If that's true, then it get them in the rear end.

GUTFELD: Watch your mouth!

WATTERS: Wow! Never heard you talk like that.

GUILFOYLE: This is a racy show.

Okay. Coming up. Why is the mainstream media fawning over a reporter from playboy? Oh, nice block. Greg explains what the heck is going on directly ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: The White House correspondent for Playboy threw a tantrum yesterday when deputy press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders pointed out that some of Trump's loudest critics are behind so much fake news. So, that's kind of neat: Playboy has a White House correspondent. It's like National Review having a stringer at Hooters.

Here's Brian Karem:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN KAREM, PLAYBOY: You're inflaming everybody right here right now with those words. This administration has done that as well. Why in the name of heaven, anyone of us, right, is replaceable. And if anyone of us if we don't get it right, the audience has the opportunity to turn the channel or not read us. You have been elected to serve for four years at least. There's no option other than that.

We here to ask you questions. You are here to provide the answers. And what you just did is inflammatory to people all over the country who look at it and say, once again, the president's right and everybody else out here is fake media. And everybody in this room is only trying to do their job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Yes. Of course, when someone in the media does this, then the rest of the media falls in love. Drool away Chris Matthews:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Brian, thank you. I was very impressed by that. What got to you? What made you do it today? Because nobody else has done it before. It should have been done, I think. You find it, because they turn that supposedly a service to the American people, with people paid by American taxpayers to give us answers to questions which you have right. That's what a briefing's supposed to be. It's not supposed to be a PR campaign of trashing everybody who disagrees with the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Get a room.

(LAUGHTER)

Legal. Anyway, I admit it was entertaining especially when the reporter tries to ask a follow-up. The expression is better than its centerfold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I disagree completely. First of all, I think if anything has been inflamed, it's the dishonesty that often takes place by the news media. And I think it is outrageous for you to accuse me of inflaming a story when I was simply trying to respond to his question. Kevin?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: The fact is, the media is the dog under new owners. They were so docile under the previous owner, President Obama. Every day, he fed them from the table scraps of eloquence that reminded them of their favorite professor, the one they had a crush on, and thought maybe they had a chance with after finals. He probably drove a convertible MG and quoted Kerouac.

But now it's different. It's so much harder. The folks they mocked for years, they're now in- charge. I'm not talking just about President Trump, but Republicans, conservatives and libertarians. All those people you rolled your eyes at whenever they knocked President Obama. They probably don't remember that, but I do. All those times they muttered or groaned when Benghazi came up or anything critical of Obama's White House.

So, please table your outrage. Since Trump came into office, there has been a run on tiny violins, and now they are all out of stock.

Dana, here's some of the headlines. This is Vox, heroic playboy reporter defended CNN's honor at White House press briefings. That still exists. Meet Brian Karem, the reporter who scolded Sarah Huckabee Sanders. "Newsweek," watch Playboy's White House press correspondent hit back at Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

PERINO: Oh, geez!

GUTFELD: I know, oh, geez is correct.

PERINO: I don't remember any Playboy reporters in the White House briefing room that were actually anonymous.

GUTFELD: He's more than that. Yes. He's more than that.

PERINO: He's been a reporter for a long time.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I do remember in the briefing room, there would be the occasional conservative that came to the briefing, and any time they would ask a question, you could see, because I had this vantage point, all the eyes rolling.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I always felt like, okay, let's just gave everybody a chance to ask questions. There's always somebody from like a foreign news outlets, I would ask a question that's totally off-topic and annoying. I think there is a lot of tension in this briefing room that could be turned down a little bit. It's getting a little old.

GUTFELD: Yes. Kimberly, he's from Playboy, maybe it should be the debriefing room. Am I right?

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Great question, Greg. Thanks for calling on me. You worked on at all yesterday.

GUTFELD: No, it just came to me. But the media loves it when the media sticks truth to power.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: But they never did this --

GUILFOYLE: Under Obama.

GUTFELD: -- under Obama. So, it's a little --

GUILFOYLE: No, of course. And to be honest, it's a very tough position. I wouldn't want to see Dana Perino in that position. Sarah Huckabee, Sean Spicer, because you just really on defense every single day taking heavy C- 130 fire. It is definitely a relationship that needs to be repaired. Because you do want to do a good job to represent the President. He's got that 40 people working in communication. He's frustrated because he feels like, okay, I want to get some good stories out there and talk about my agenda.

GUTFELD: Right.

GUILFOYLE: What I want to do. Let's talk about health care, and taxes, immigration, and National Security, and all the things we've been working on. And instead, it's like defending stories that are thinly sourced. So, there is frustration. But you have got also to lead by example and try and put some stories out there that are actually positive. Dana has talked about this a lot that you can say, this is what we're doing, and give them something to work on. Otherwise, right now, it's like at the zoo, and everybody is throwing things at each other. And that's not helping anybody.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Jesse, I get the feeling that this was planned and he was pulling a Gerry Maguire. You know he knew that -- you know when you know that if you make this heroic speech and all your peers are going to be like golf clapping.

WATTERS: Are you saying he had a few drinks beforehand? No, but you're implying a little liquor courage.

GUILFOYLE: Show me the money.

GUTFELD: I can't remember that part from the movie.

WATTERS: I mean, people say they read Playboy for the articles. This is the guy that's writing the articles. Very good. It makes perfect sense that the leader of the White House press corps is Playboy. I wouldn't call this guy brave. It's not like he stormed the beaches of Normandy. I guess if you are a media reporter, this is brave. I don't think he looks very good. I thought he was kind of whiny and a little disheveled.

I mean, I don't want to make any comments about his personal appearance, but you saw the aftershock there, where he just kind of looks frazzled and weak. And then he goes around and gets like a pat on the back by Chris Matthews, also kind of weak. This guy will probably be, over his 15 minutes of fame is probably over.

GUILFOYLE: And he got blasted --

GUTFELD: And then he can go back writing articles for Playboy.

GUILFOYLE: Davis blasted a man from Playboy.

GUTFELD: Juan, do you think -- would you call this a tantrum, or was it a legitimate response?

WILLIAMS: I think it's quite a legitimate response. Let me just say, you know, I've worked as a reporter for a long time. People have threatened my life, people have threatened my family, tried to blow up things, broke into my house, lied about me. And so I just --

GUTFELD: And that was just me.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Really. No, but I'm just telling you, I think there are a lot of reporters in this country, and I just think globally, you look at some countries like Mexico where they are killing reporters left and right. And the idea here, I think, you know, Sarah Huckabee Sanders came out and she was loaded. She was like Dirty Harry, you know, saying, make my day buddy.

GUTFELD: Dirty Harriet.

WILLIAMS: Dirty -- okay. And he said, though, you know what? You are undermining the First Amendment here. You are setting a flag, you are saying that everybody in your political base, ignore the news media.

GUTFELD: She made a good point.

WILLIAMS: They are all a bunch of liars.

GUTFELD: She made a good point.

WILLIAMS: And guess what, the only source to be trusted, Donald Trump.

GUTFELD: No. Because she was making a good point that --

WILLIAMS: That is crazy.

GUTFELD: -- that a lot of the people that go after Trump or little things are the ones who are making the big mistakes. You wanted to add something?

PERINO: I just want to -- yesterday Jonathan Swan from Axios right before the briefing, he tweeted, I've been told to expect fireworks at the briefing. So, the White House wants this fight because they think that it helps them. And it does help them.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PERINO: And we are talking about every night about the fight that they have with the media and they have legitimate reason to have fights with them especially with the CNN story that we talked about today. But they wanted to.

GUILFOYLE: Dana is right because they feel vindicated. Because they've been saying this so that was their big moment to say, see, this is what we've been complaining about, please understand. We've tried to tell you this. You're putting out these stories, and now look at what's happened.

WILLIAMS: No. I think --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think Scaramucci has the best way to do it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- because it helped them again to undermine anybody who is covering those connections between the Russian government and the campaign, and secondly, to distract from the failure of the health care legislation.

GUTFELD: We must now move on.

PERINO: Okay. We'll move on.

GUTFELD: Let's move on.

PERINO: Uh-hm.

WATTERS: Okay.

GUTFELD: Up next, we will tell you why criminal aliens should be afraid about what President Trump did today. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: President Trump is pushing hard for legislation that gets tougher on sanctuary cities and criminal aliens. The House is expected to vote on two bills this week endorsed by the President, including Kate's Law, which is named after Kate Steinle, a 32-year-old who was murdered in 2015 by a five-times deported felon who is taking advantage of San Francisco's sanctuary city status. Kate's Law increases the penalties on illegal immigrants who repeatedly defy deportation. Today, President Trump met with immigration crime victims.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You lost the people that you love because our government refused to enforce our nation's immigration laws. And that's even the existing immigration laws, without new laws. That's existing immigration laws. For years, the pundits, journalists, politicians in Washington refused to hear your voices, but on election day, 2016, your voices were heard all across the entire world. Right? You better believe it. Nobody died in vain, I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WATTERS: So, Dana, it's nice to have a presidents that sides with crime victims as opposed to criminals. DANA PERINO, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: This will pass the house. That tougher road is in the senate as it was last year. They were able to get that. But they might be able to now with President Trump's help. I would imagine that if the Democrats can take a moment just to think about a little bit down the road.

If they can just support these two things, Kate's Law and sanctuary cities, then President Trump would be able to say, look at what I've done on border enforcement, and now let's move to what you really want which is comprehensive immigration reform. And I think they would be able to get it.

The other thing is that earlier this week, I listened to a podcast that "The New York Times" does, and they were interviewing one of the fathers whose son had been shot in the face by an illegal immigrant who should have been deported and his son died. And he said that he met President Trump and it meant so much to him to have somebody listen to him.

The reporter then asked, why did you choose this issue to work on? Why not gun control? And I just thought, oh, it's the wrong question because it is -- because this is actually something that you can actually do to help prevent additional crimes. If you could deport people who are here illegally, that's when you can get guns control done.

GREG GUTFELD, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: Yeah.

WATTERS: It's amazing the Democrats have to be dragged, kicking and screaming to support common sense legislation like this. Greg, the Democrats like to say they are compassionate people, but I don't see a lot of that compassion when it comes to victims of illegal alien crime.

GUTFELD: Go back to what Dana just mentioned about this podcast and the question that was asked. Therein lies the lesson. The lesson is, there are some victims that are more appealing than others.

WATTERS: There is a victim hierarchy.

GUTFELD: If you are a victim of gun violence, pure and simple, or if you are a victim of gun violence by law enforcement, you are at the top of the wrong. Donald Trump, love him or hate him, is the first powerful person to embrace a cause that has been largely ignored, not just by politicians, but by the media because they felt that this type of victim did not feed a narrative that they felt more strongly about, which is law enforcement, police brutality, and gun control.

Those are the things that make up the liberal media brain. Victims of the illegal violence are in that equation, and it took President Trump to introduce that into the world, and then you have the podcast, but they still can't let go.

WATTERS: Right. Dana and Greg make a good point. The left, will memorialize someone, Kimberly, like Mike Brown, but then they will ignore someone like Kate Steinle. What do you think that is?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: So disturbing, isn't it? This law (inaudible) legal covering this, it should have been passed three years ago and should have been taken to the senate floor. It's very disturbing to me. I come from San Francisco. I worked there as a prosecutor. The law should be followed and upheld, and here it makes a lot of sense.

It's very consistent with what President Trump has said about strengthening our borders and strengthening security. This is not some egregious or inappropriate law, this makes a lot of sense. This is a deterrent. This will save lives. This does help national security and strengthen our borders, and this increases penalties in a proportionate way for those who would commit heinous felonies, acts of violence, and illegally reenter over and over again.

This is the first president to strongly address and listen to the voices of the victims of violent crime to those families who Washington has turned a deaf ear on. Now, he's paying attention to them. I think it's very important. This is an important issue. It would cut back so much on crime, like Dana says. Take the illegal immigrants who are here, the people who come in over and over again to commit these crimes, and put this penalty.

You have to make sure they don't come back in and re-offend in a way like criminal recidivists that they have been doing over and over again. You would care about this if this was your family. You would. You would pay attention and you would want someone to listen to you and say enough.

WATTERS: Golden opportunity for Democrats, Juan, these are two things, Kate's Law and sanctuary cities. They are supported by the vast majority of the American public.

JUAN WILLIAMS, "The Five" HOST, FOX NEWS: Yeah, because you know what? This is incredible to me. I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, you know, if anybody attacked any of us or our families, we would say, this is outrageous. We wouldn't say, oh, you are an illegal immigrant. We would say, we don't like crime, and guess what? President Obama was kicking out people at record rates who were illegal immigrants who had committed crimes.

President Trump has continued down that path, may be even more aggressively because now he's throwing out people with traffic tickets. But the idea is, you shouldn't demonize all immigrants or even all illegal immigrants because the statistics as Greg and I have argued over show they have a lower rate of criminal behavior than people who are here as native citizens.

GUTFELD: They are competing statistics, Juan.

WILLIAMS: We have argued this. GUTFELD: I know. Federals -- but you said -- but federal stats have illegals have higher compared to overall share of population, but when you look at other stats, it's lower. Look, you know, but I have a solution for this. WILLIAMS: A conservative group says that's wrong. GUTFELD: They're libertarian. I have a solution for this. Because there are competing statistics, don't look at them and just look at the problem of illegal immigration. GUILFOYLE: Exactly.

WATTERS: Yeah.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: We can agree on the crime, they just look at illegal immigration as a separate issue.

WILLIAMS: Fine, okay, so let's look at illegal immigration. Remember, President Bush tried to get something done. Guess what, the talk radio show host on the right said no. Guess what. President Obama tried to get something. You know what? It seems to me like people are actually kind of nursing a grievance and glad to demonize immigrants.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no.

WILLIAMS: . and led by President Trump.

GUILFOYLE: With all due respect.

WATTERS: Legitimate reason when illegal immigrants commit heinous crimes when it was preventable.

GUILFOYLE: And Kate's Law doesn't demonize anybody.

WATTERS: Condoleezza Rice is talking about President Trump's leadership. We will play it for you after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Right. Country music. President Trump has been a very different kind of president, but when it comes to standing up for America's values, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says Mr. Trump is no different than his predecessors.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I believe every president of the United States stands for our values and ultimately these presidents begin to react in that way. You heard President Trump say, for instance, after the Syrian chemical attack, we can't let that stand. What he was saying was the president of the United States can't let that stand.

And so while the language may be different and we might talk about needing to deal with policy, I think you're going to see that the view that America's interests and values are always linked will come around in early days of this administration. Let's (inaudible) him for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: The ever gracious and very wise former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She always has an ability, Greg, to remind us of the bigger picture, the patriotic way of looking at things.

GUTFELD: I'd like to think I taught her that by watching "The Five."

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Because every Republican and conservative has to reconsider and rethink how they view Donald Trump because he is unlike so many other previous politicians. There are no smooth edges with Trump. He's not a purely political animal. So, she does what a lot of people do. They cleaved the Donald that you know from the past from the donald as president.

She started by saying, he may sound different, but he acts in the best interest. She (inaudible) those two things apart, which is exactly how you must view him. It the healthiest way to view him. He sounds different than he acts. Think about this. Compared to President Obama.

President Obama's sound was smooth like music at a spa, but his deeds were questionable. This is reverse. Trump's sound is blunt, raw, to some scary, but his deeds are primarily in the service of the country. He's a reversal of Obama, and he's not like anything people have seen.

PERINO: (inaudible) sent me a column about that today. It was in "The New Yorker." I shall send it around for everybody to see.

GUTFELD: I did not read the column.

PERINO: Kimberly, you are a big fan of Secretary Rice.

GUILFOYLE: I really am. Do you think I'm the biggest fan? I think.

PERINO: (inaudible).

GUILFOYLE: Oh, that was good. I think this is great, you know. I mean, this really goes to show -- I'm not kidding. This really goes to show you what a valuable, wonderful, patriotic Condoleezza Rice is to this country because instead of being someone who say, well, I worked for previous administration, she wants to get in there and help.

We all know that she has been very helpful to this administration, one of the people that recommended Rex Tillerson for secretary of state, and she is saying, because of her personal expense with President Trump, her conversation with him, that she believes him and that he in fact, she believes, will reach out to Democrats and the people across the world to be able to try to force policy and make a positive change.

I'm going to take her at her word. I think she is somebody who has a tremendous amount of experience dealing with administration with all these different important departments, and I think she knows a thing or two about what's going on there. PERINO: And also, she just came out with a book called "Democracy" that has all these stories about how democracy survived over time. I think what she was trying to say is that let's look at the big picture here. He is a public servant and he is doing what is in the best interest of America.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: What are your thoughts?

WATTERS: Condo really owes you for that nice book plug.

PERINO: It's a good book.

WATTERS: There you go, again.

PERINO: I actually read it.

GUILFOYLE: It's possible to come on "The Five."

WATTERS: Oh, it's a great read, I'm sure. Well, Condoleezza is a woman everybody respects, highly respected by almost everybody. This was a big establishment stamp of approval. I don't know why we still need that. I don't think we need people like Condoleezza Rice coming out and saying Trump is a patriot.

I think everybody knows Trump is a patriot. I think some people in the media that listen to this treason talk with Russia still think this guy is some sort of a trader. So maybe when they hear Condleezza Rice on CNBC say Trump is real patriot, they will say, oh, maybe he is. I don't think we need that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You complain about people being negative.

WATTERS: I'm not complaining. I'm just pointing out the reality.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Juan Williams, last word.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Condoleezza Rice is so gracious, but I don't think she's a Trump supporter, and I don't think she endorsed Donald Trump in that little thing she said. In fact, the most important thing she said was that, you know what, ultimately, Americans are going to act in the best interest of America, let's hope. And then she said, the Russia investigation is legit.

PERINO: Okay.

WILLIAMS: . and it should be pursued and it should be pursued to find out what happened to make sure it doesn't happen again. Thank you, Condoleezza Rice.

PERINO: Okay.

GUILFOYLE: She's (inaudible) transition and she has been at the White House quite a bit and she has most definitely been at the State Department.

PERINO: And there was a little bit of news. President Trump has accepted an invitation from French president Emmanuel Macron to go to Paris for Bastille Day.

WILLIAMS: We meet.

PERINO: That's awesome. I love that.

GUTFELD: Not now.

PERINO: A liberal pundit says the media is being sensitive. We will tell you about it straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: The mainstream media gets its fair share of criticism from Republicans, but now, even some on the left voicing complaints. Former talk show host Phil Donahue says the press is far too sensitive about criticism from President Trump.

(START VIDEO CLIP)

PHIL DONAHUE, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST: I just think it's a bad thing for the press to get in to the punching game. By the way, in my experience, there are a lot of people in the press who can't take a punch, "The Washington Post," "The New York Times." These people can't find enough adjectives to express their disgust for this president. And yet, they missed the story. They missed the guy in the mid-west who was working long hours without a pay raise, whose kids can't pay back their college loans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: What do you think, Jesse? Do the press have a glass jar?

WATTERS: Yeah, they do, and Trump shattered it. I think when Donahue is the voice of reason in the Democratic Party, I think the Democratic Party is in big trouble. He makes a great point. They totally lost touch with reality. They lost touch with their constituency. Russia is not going to put food on people's tables. Russia is not going to put your kids through college. It's not going to lower your premiums. So I think the Democrats should listen to Phil Donahue. Did I just say that?

GUTFELD: Yes, you did.

WATTERS: And they might be better of, you know, as a matter of fact, don't listen to Phil Donahue.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: So, KG, he said this. You're supposed to -- talking about reporters -- tell people often what they don't want to hear, that's your job of course, but if you're not popular, you don't get promoted in the news game, and somebody else will have to feed your kid. So this is what he is saying, that reporters have to do it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean, look, he's giving good, general advice. But then you also have to apply it to today and what's going on. When you look at the polls and the complete disfavor and low regard that the public, the American public, the voting public, has for the mainstream media, for the stories, for the fake news, there is a reason they are in the fix they're in. They need to take a closer look at themselves, their ethics, and their journalistic standards, and then maybe things won't be so rough for them.

WILLIAMS: Dana, tougher press?

PERINO: Yeah, everyone is sensitive, right? Everybody needs to grow a little bit of a thicker skin. We've been through a lot in the past two years. But his point about the election is a good one. If all the news outlets are doing better, the ratings are better, subscriptions are up, you are a young entrepreneurial reporter, I would ask your editor for a road trip budget. Hit the road for the next six months. Don't come back until you've had some experiences with people who are actually doing the voting.

WILLIAMS: Greg. GUTFELD: Phil Donahue telling people don't be so sensitive is like Mr. Clean saying don't be so bold. This was the first sensitive new age man. He was the first male feminist. I remember as a kid in the 70s at home watching him, he was the mascot for the me decade. There is nobody more sensitive than Phil Donahue.

WATTERS: How old are you, Greg?

WILLIAMS: Hang in there, guys. Get tougher. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" and I will begin.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I'm sorry.

GUILFOYLE: Fine. This young man's days of walking to work are no more. This is a fantastic story. And this is after the help of a generous group of strangers who bought him a car. They knew that he was doing this and they said wow, this guy is 20 years old, Justin Korva, he walks over 3 miles to work every day to his job at a taco restaurant in Rockwall, Texas.

So people in that community would notice him. It's super hot outside. They put out a box for donation. And then last Friday, they surprised him with a car while he was at work. Something he has always wanted. They also paid his insurance for a year plus two years worth of oil changes and a $500 gas card. What an inspiring story. Way to go, Justin, happy for you.

PERINO: That's awesome.

GUILFOYLE: Good work ethic. God bless him. Very generous nice people.

PERINO: Awesome. Do you remember the story about pink slime? ABC News ran it in 2012. Basically, it said that a South Dakota meat producer was using pink slime, and that it was not healthy for you and it was bad and all stuff. So, the Beef Products Institute sued the network for defamation. It won today.

GUILFOYLE: Yup.

PERINO: That story resulted in the sales declining from 5 million to 2 million pounds a week which meant they had a closed plant in Iowa, Kansas, and Texas laying off more than 700 workers. Why this matters? That was actually fake news. And this case is another first amendment test for the media. Get this, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: The South Dakota lawsuit basically set this precedent. It triples the amount of reported damages if a news organization knowingly lies about food safety claims.

GUILFOYLE: Good.

PERINO: So going forward hopefully this will protect the workers and employers across the country.

GUILFOYLE: And good for them in making this. It is a very important case. Very interesting, Dana. Thank you. Juan Williams. WILLIAMS: So, last night, I went to see my friend Lionel Richie in concert in Virginia. A great place, by the way. We were out in the open, beautiful night. There were so many fans of "The Five." I got to say thank you. And of course, Lionel Richie is a fan. He watches "The Five." We got to hang out with him backstage. Here he is with my wife and some friends. By the way, the guy in the black hat, big conservative, Armstrong Williams. The show was absolutely terrific. Lionel played everyone of his many hits and he had us dancing on the ceiling all night long. GUTFELD: He's amazing. I love Lionel Richie on Pandora. All right. Next, next, next, Greg.

GUTFELD: My podcast with Kristy Swanson, the original Buffy vampire slayer. It's awesome. It's up there right now. Let's roll this real quick.

Greg's Disgusting News. Can you believe Joe Scarborough produced a song?

PERINO: It's terrible.

GUTFELD: All right. Do you want me to start talking? This is so bad. I'm going to stop it right now. Don't ever listen to it.

GUILFOYLE: He plays the television.

WATTERS: Actually I thought that was pretty good. So, Senator Ted Cruz found his doppelganger. Separated at birth. Look at the sky. I found my doppelganger. Look at that. Separated at birth.

GUILFOYLE: "Hannity" is up next.

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