Clearance showdown between Trump and Brennan intensifies

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Clearance showdown between Trump and Brennan intensifies

Former CIA Director John Brennan threatening legal action against the president to prevent others from having their clearances pulled; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 20, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Dagen McDowell, Juan Williams, Brian Kilmeade, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is "The Five."

The security clearance showdown intensifies. The feud between President Trump and John Brennan rages on as the former CIA director said he's not political. Brennan also threatening legal action against the president to prevent others from having their clearances pulled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I am going to do whatever I can, personally, to try to prevent these abuses in the future. And if it means going to court, I will -- I will do that. I have seen the light sprinkling red in terms of what Mr. Trump has done and is doing. I think I need to speak out. And so, I've been speaking out rather forcefully because I believe it's important to do so. I don't believe I'm being political at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Trump is firing back on twitter slamming Brennan as a, quote, political hack. Meanwhile, some former intelligence officials are blasting the former CIA director's rhetoric and routine criticism of the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR: I think it is. I think male John is sort of like a freight train, and he's going to say what's on his mind. But John and his rhetoric have become, I think, an issue in and of itself.

MICHAEL MULLEN, FORMER JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN: He has been incredibly critical of the president and I think that has put him in a political place which actually does more damage for the intelligence community which is a political.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PERINO: OK. So those are former officials, Brian, and track is what I have been hearing as well that the intelligence community, writ-large, wishes that John Brennan had not gone out and done all of this because that they think is hurting the overall intelligence community.

BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST CO-HOST: And about 60 -- 60 intelligence officials at first. Now it's in the triple figures. I've come out and said I don't think he should've been stripped, that's fine. However, I just thought it was stunning too, because I've watch all the Sunday shows because I'm lonely, and I hear Chuck Todd say, listen, if you didn't say this, if you didn't say treason, if you weren't...

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: ... actually attacking them -- than actually attacking them, then I think that we wouldn't be at this place. But when people hear you talk, you have to understand that people look at you as a CIA director.

PERINO: And this is -- watch this, this is what Brian is talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret, essentially, accusing the president of treason? Do you regret some of the things you have said?

BRENNAN: I called his behavior treasonous, which is to betray one's trust, and to aid and abet the enemy, and I stand very much by that's claim.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right, Greg. What do you think?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, you're watching a lot of people -- the media -- it's not like they're mad that this guy is hurting the intelligence community. That's not the problem. They're mad because they're helping -- he's helping Trump every time he opens his mouth. Trump looks better. Right now, all of Brennan's allies are feeling like this guy is betraying them by -- with his stupidity. Do we have that clip of Rachel Maddow? Oh. There's a great clip of Maddow saying...

KILMEADE: I've left it in my office. Can we get it?

GUTFELD: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) But she basically said -- you've said his actions were nothing short of treasonous, and he said, yeah, that's not treason. And she's like looking at him going like nothing short of treason, but it's not treason. And so, you're seeing Rachel Maddow, you're seeing Clapper, you're seeing CNN, all kind of backing away from Brennan. So, he's like that crazy pant-less guy on the subway who's flinging fesses at the families. But the other thing about this is, most of America doesn't care about this stuff and I say it a lot. If America were this vast amusement park with all these wonderful things you can do, right now the media is in the tiniest corner of that amusement park on the teacups going around and around and around. Meanwhile, everyone else is, summertime, enjoying space mountain. This is just something...

PERINO: The water -- the water fall. The water slide.

GUTFELD: The water fall -- the water slide.

DAGEN MCDOWELL, GUEST CO-HOST: The water park.

GUTFELD: The only reason why this story exists is because of the times we lived in right now, which is that we have peace breaking out all over. We have an economic boom. We don't have enough people to fill jobs, so we have this carnival sideshow on every show because there's nothing else to talk about, which is basically a good thing, right?

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: ... around Mueller a little bit and that is real, and people should pay attention to that because even if you don't it's going to hit you.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDOWELL: No, I was in the rural south for ten days, so here's what I've heard from everybody I've talked to. Why in the hell does a professional political bloviator still have a security clearance if he's not working within the government with more than 500 million security clearances still out there? I think a lot of these former professionals are upset that Brennan's blowing up the gravy train because them carrying these security clearances outside of government it makes them more valuable, does it not? And that...

PERINO: I don't think if you're actually working on -- like, if you're like working with the defense contractor, may be...

MCDOWELL: It makes you more -- it makes you a little more hirable...

PERINO: I think it is. I think reputation wise, yes. It's probably stings a little bit. But, Juan, we haven't have you weigh in yet and it's 5 minutes in.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, I've just -- I don't think it makes you that much valuable. I saw the president said that today. He said that it's financially to their advantage to keep it. What strikes me is that they're not backing away from Brennan. I think even when you hear people say he's like a freight train, which is what Clapper said, the guy is like a freight train in terms of his criticism. He said he opposes the revocation of the clearance.

PERINO: Right. You could believe both things.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Well, I'm just saying. So I don't think it's the matter of backing away from it. I think what people are saying is -- and this is the most troubling to me is that there is now a breach between the President of the United States and the intelligence community. And so, you may say, oh, well, that doesn't matter...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No, no, I don't believe that. I don't think that's...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: This is what they're saying. Yeah, that's what they're saying, Dana. It's not me saying it. That's what they're saying...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No, I'm saying -- that is not a good thing for any president.

WILLIAMS: That's not good. And so, I find that alarming because I think down the road you have to have trust and norms in order to have a society, to have a government, and I think those are being eroded.

GUTFELD: Yeah, I guess the administration should trust Brennan. There's no politicization going on there...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You don't have to trust him, you just don't have to make out an enemy lists and remind us...

GUTFELD: He is kind of an enemy.

KILMEADE: Can I bring up one thing?

PERINO: Of course.

KILMEADE: We have this list, Michael Hayden, Sally Yates, Susan Rice, Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Bruce Ohr. Ohr is on his way out. Lisa Page, Peter Strzok has been -- basically fired a can, and Sally Yates as well, and Andrew McCabe. The others -- leave them alone. Use this as an opportunity to go ahead and re-examine this whole issuance of...

PERINO: Right, the point. The point, Dagen.

KILMEADE: The point you make. And put a panel together of Gates, Mullen and Keane, General Keane, that looks at this and gets back with a report in six months and we will revisit it. Wouldn't that make the world a better place?

GUTFELD: I don't know. As long as you're here, I'm not so sure.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I don't know. Pirates of the Caribbean, maybe.

KILMEADE: I don't really go in that line, it's always too long.

MCDOWELL: So he's imitating -- he's in the hole, the president.

WILLIAMS: No, he has the VIP pass. He gets the VIP.

GUTFELD: You know what worries me is OK. So, it's kind of like during the Clinton era which was before 9/11. You know we were obsessed in dealing with scandals, and what was going on in the oval office, and Monica Lewinsky. So we're here dealing with all these like small ball stuff, to quote Juan Williams from his latest column, and what could happen -- what could be going on? What could be being plan right now that we aren't aware of because we're diverted -- we're diverted to this stuff? We're really in a nice, calm, peace time, time of peace...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: ... of 2001. I mean...

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: ... that's what the DNI, Dan Coats said in testimony in front of congress just three weeks ago that you always have to be having -- like be more creative than the terrorists, and like be focus on that, and it feels a little bit like that time.

MCDOWELL: Well, and this is why Trump supporters don't have a problem with Brennan's security clearance being revoked because, again, he's under scrutiny. What was his role in opening the investigation of the Trump campaign and in any relationship with Russia? What was his role in using partisan funded research paid for by the Clintons to get a surveillance warrant on an American citizen? He's been very critical, Brennan, of the house intelligence committee work, why is that? President Trump has an option, the Wall Street Journal editorial page wrote about it last week, it just opened the box and let everybody see all of the intelligence, let's find out what's Brennan's role is.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, that's what the Journal says to pick up -- but, Dagen, what the present -- has nothing to do with anything you've decided. He just said this guy is reckless, I think -- what was his language...

PERINO: Erratic.

WILLIAMS: Erratic. But the real point is, and I think that's why you seen such unanimous responds from the intelligence committee is that this is about punishing a critic.

MCDOWELL: The reason was spurious, but the end result was right.

PERINO: That's what Andy McCarthy wrote. He said...

MCDOWELL: I stole that from him.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: You know what, you used the word spurious and he didn't. And I have to say that is an actual...

KILMEADE: And we're going to find out later, according to Greg Gutfeld, if Andy had an option to use the word? Does he even know what it meant?

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: He said revoking Brennan security clearance, the right thing even if for the wrong reason. That was it.

WILLIAMS: I like spurious. I think...

PERINO: It's pretty good. All right, we have more new fallout after a report reveals Robert Mueller's team interviewed White House counsel, Don McGahn, in the Russia probe. President Trump reaction, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: President Trump lashing out at the Mueller probe after a New York Times report reveals White House Counsel Don McGahn is cooperating with the investigation. The president slamming the special council's team as, quote, angry, Democrat thugs, who reportedly met with McGahn for over 30 hours in the Russia probe all with the president's blessings. Trump also accused the investigators of trying to tilt the midterms while blasting them as, quote, a national disgrace. Meanwhile, his lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, firing back against the report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: This is a desperate special counsel who leaked this to the New York Times, illegally, I might add. It could be McGahn, and McGahn is not doing it, and he would have done it a long time ago if he was going to do it. They're down to desperation time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Desperation time, Dagen?

MCDOWELL: Oh, lord, you came to me first? No, not desperation time. I'm going to cite a Wall Street Journal editorial earlier, because Dana already quoted some of it on her show earlier. But they point out that -- McGahn's own attorney, William Burke, said on the record that he only cooperated after President Trump waived any privilege claim, which is something that Bill Clinton -- President Trump is getting no credit for waving that claim when Bill Clinton fought it tooth and nail to avoid his aid from testifying, but Sidney Blumenthal and Bruce Lindsey, just to name two examples. So, in this instance with waiving privilege, McGahn would have to answer to special counsel's questions in every single one of them because he can't fight privilege.

WILLIAMS: All right. So -- but, Dana, the thing is, McGahn was there for 30 hours. And now, you get the president's lawyer saying, Jay Sekulow and Giuliani, we don't know exactly what...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I know Bill Burke very well. We've worked together at the White House for full disclosure. And -- I mean, I know the issue with executive privilege very well because we had to fight it when the Democrats took over in 2006, '07, '08, they have called us up -- everybody -- they wanted to put everybody under oath, they want to put everybody under a subpoena, including Josh Bolton, chief of staff, et cetera. And you had to decide each time are you going to assert privilege, which is why in the New York Times article Bill Burke said that he went back to the president's initial lawyers and said, are you sure that the president doesn't want to assert any privilege on this? They're like, no, fine. But remember, the other thing is, the first lawyers are overheard at a steak house, shooting the breeze and talking about how they're going to hang it all on Don McGahn if it all goes bad. And McGahn says, well, I actually didn't think it was a good idea in the first place, but Trump says go talk to Mueller, do ever what you have to do. I don't think it matters, 30 hours. I actually think what -- if I were at the White House you might think, well, he was there for 30 hours, he answered all of their questions. McGahn has been there ever since doing the work of the president, doing the good work for him. Presumably, if he felt he couldn't work for the president he would have left because he's a principle person. So I don't think -- I think this is much ado about nothing at this point.

WILLIAMS: And, Greg, what do you think about Democrat thugs?

GUTFELD: Oh, well, I think he's right. Donald Trump compared this probe to McCarthyism, but he had the wrong McCarthy. It's not Joe McCarthy. It's Charlie McCarthy. What you have are a bunch of dummies. The strings are being pulled by a bunch of overheated axe in the media. Can I quote Andrew McCarthy?

PERINO: Yes, let's do...

GUTFELD: OK. He had another article out...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They made a really good point which is that, if Trump's actions are lawful, which it looks like that's what's going to happen. You cannot question the motivations behind it because then that's nothing more than mind-reading. If Trump's head -- if it's all in Trump's head but his actions are clear then you've got nothing. And that's a pretty compelling point to make, which is why you see on Morning Joe now they're talking, once again, about Trump being mentally unwell. He's got some kind of, you know, mental derangement, he's incapable. But what does that say about Joe Scarborough if somebody was mentally unstable is running circles around you. You much have in-stage dementia.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDOWELL: And, that means they've overslept and didn't have time doing any reading or work so they just go on...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: But let's say Mueller comes back and he says cleared, no collusion, and then, of course, the White House is going to be very happy about that, like, I told you so all along. But the Democrat will start saying it was rigged because Mueller is a Republican, and Mueller did all of this, and it might never end.

KILMEADE: I think that would be trouble. But -- just, by the way, when is Joe Scarborough on? Because it seems to me that Greg grew up a fan of Fox and Friends, and now suddenly you've change as you've gotten older. And I'm just wondering why you're watching him?

Dagan: Or Mornings with Maria.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I like -- you know I like to look at the competition to see what they're doing or not doing. And also it makes me laugh.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But, Greg, what competition?

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: All right. Two things that we found out they do want -- they do know, maybe Bill Burke would tell you something different than the New York Times guy.

PERINO: No, no, no.

KILMEADE: But...

PERINO: I have not talked to him about this case...

KILMEADE: Right.

PERINO: ... to be clear.

KILMEADE: But did he said that Comey -- it was very interested the Comey firing? Who would have thought? And he was very interested -- and why he had such a preference to Jeff Sessions after he recuse himself. Wow. Talk about coming out of left field. But here's what happen. I think if I understood John Roberts report well, and I used to do very well in reading comprehension...

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: ... well in math, which would balance each other out. So my scores would be average, yet my reading was strong.

PERINO: OK.

KILMEADE: So he came out and said this -- he came out and said today, the reason why...

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: School? The reason why Dowd came out and did this is because he wanted to talk to everybody. And he says what if we would give you McGahn? He said, really? You're going to give me instead of everybody? So he thought -- we got to prepare ourselves to get thrown under the bus. And then he went on to say, and this I thought was key, as months passed it became apparent that McGahn and Burke had overestimated the amount of thought that went into the president saying, go talk to him. They had no master plan to throw him out of the bus. He just said go talk to him. I got nothing to hide.

WILLIAMS: Well, so he just thinks he has done nothing wrong and he thinks -- in fact, it will say to his supporters, I got nothing to hide. I'm telling people to go ahead and talk.

KILMEADE: That's pretty much with Ty Cobb...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yeah. And that's why Ty Cobb and others have gone...

KILMEADE: Do you agree?

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The problem with the Giuliani strategy is that today the headline is all about truth is in truth, right?

GUTFELD: No, but the thing is -- I'm going to be the broken record here. You go to McGahn, you've got Mueller, you've got Manafort, if you read these names to the American public, you could be reading them members of a New Zealand cricket team. Nobody -- it's just like...

PERINO: And why we do it on the show? Is that what you're trying to say?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I'm saying -- I'm trying to subliminally tell the producers...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah. But let me ask about another member of that cricket team, Michael Cohen.

GUTFELD: There you go.

WILLIAMS: So, apparently, now, the pressure is rising on Cohen, and the threat here is that he knows so much about the operations of the Trump business empire as well as Trump personally.

KILMEADE: And this is Lenny Davis. Lenny Davis lives to serve Hillary Clinton. The way he could give back to Hillary Clinton is to get Michael Cohen to agree that he has no other options but to find out everything that Donald Trump did from walking in against traffic to buy a casino who is willing to pay for it, to all of a sudden throw that out there to get him in trouble. Lenny Davis would have no problem telling Michael Cohen to do all that.

WILLIAMS: Well, Michael Cohen used to be loyal to this president, and the president values loyalty above all else.

MCDOWELL: Well, I think this tweet storm is like the marketing campaign leading up to the decision that President Trump is not going to talk about Mueller. It seems like...

KILMEADE: That's what the mechanic exposed here in this story said, what did he -- what can I say that he didn't say at the White House...

MCDOWELL: The FBI can lie to you -- lie to you all day long.

KILMEADE: Which makes me think that he was not leaked by the Mueller probe. The Mueller probe has nothing to gain by this coming out...

PERINO: I don't think so either.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's Mueller leaking...

KILMEADE: That's what you said.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Whoever first leak -- complained about the leak is usually the leak.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, I think there's a lot of stormy weather in the politics of late August. The feud between Democratic New York Governor Cuomo and President Trump escalated. The latest on their potential 2020 showdown when we return on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KILMEADE: All right. That's probably from the Friday night concert series, the Friday afternoon, the Friday morning. Hey, some potential 2020 contenders taking aim at President Trump. First off, anti-Trump critic and Democratic New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand launching a brand new attack on the president as the midterm approach. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D-N.Y.: I think what happens in November is going to decide what our country looks like. I think this election is a referendum on President Trump on the fact that he doesn't represent most Americans. That his values don't line up with most Americans. And so, being heard in this election sets the stage for everything in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: OK. Nice T's. Meanwhile, fresh off of his America was never that great comment, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo ramping up his war of words with the president over the weekend. Let's listen again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO, D-N.Y.: The debate we're having with this president is really about the type of country we want to be. This is about our values, our beliefs, this is about our character. Now, he came to office with a very specific vision, and after a year and a half of taking his actions, you now see the outline of the America that he wants to bring to us. And it is a frightening portrait.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: For a second I almost forgot about his comment, America not being that great. Sorry, that's never going to be forgotten. Dana, what about this matchup? Are we elevating Andrew Cuomo to Trump's status?

PERINO: Well, for a couple weeks. It's a long way to go. There's 85 days till the midterms. And then, the day after the midterm is when the primary starts on the Democratic side. I've listened to a podcast this morning where a woman from Third Way, which is a sort of moderate Democratic group, said on her list she has written down 35 potential Democrat candidates, and they're all going to be trying to vie for some lane. There's going to be some mayors, governors, senators, and then, probably, she said some outsiders candidates, and they're all going to be looking for a way. Andrew Cuomo benefits right now because where does President Trump love to fight? In the New York tabloid media. That's where Andrew Cuomo loves to get beat up or to beat up on Trump. So, I think that -- at least for a while, yeah, Cuomo is going to get some attention.

KILMEADE: Juan, does it hurt Cuomo that he's a terrible governor?

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I don't know that he's a terrible governor because when I look at the numbers right now, Cynthia Nixon running against him and pushing him from the left, Dana, which is why I think in a state where President Trump has, I think, a negative -- he's like negative 56, you can understand why Cuomo is going after Trump. You can understand that. And, of course, nationally, you can understand why Trump is going after Cuomo when he makes statements like America is not that great, right?

KILMEADE: But, for why is he being pushed by Cynthia Nixon? He should not even acknowledge Cynthia Nixon. Tell me what you care about? What are you about? Why are you trying to grab the all the way left?

WILLIAMS: Well, look, these are -- in terms of confidence, wouldn't you agree, Brian, this is a time of celebrity, and she's an actress, well-known actress, and she's out there saying that Cuomo is too much of the establishment. And you talk about populism in these times, anti- establishment populist. Cuomo is not only Cuomo, the governor, he's the son of a governor.

MCDOWELL: That's my point is that with a name like Cuomo, you are a celebrity in political circles in New York. I thought you're going to say on that list of 35 names is Cuomo's name wasn't on it because he's the worst retail politician ever. He could change -- he would have to change his name to Hillary Clinton to have a better shot at running for the nomination in 2020.

KILMEADE: Here's what bothers me, have you ever traveled to upstate New York?

GUTFELD: Yeah, many times.

KILMEADE: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Don't pretend we don't share a cab.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, he took the subway.

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: Not a cab.

GUTFELD: On 57th street.

KILMEADE: But, Greg, they're suffering economically, they're barely holding on.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

KILMEADE: They want to do this thing called fracking because this thing called oil is in the ground. They did an environmental study, and the environmental study says you can go ahead and do it. He says OK. Now that I paid for it I'm not going to anyway. So those people are struggling, while the people of Ohio and Pennsylvania are thriving. He is robbing them of a living and a future simply because he's trying to run for president in two years. I find that abhorrent.

GUTFELD: You know who else is struggling? Me. Why does he talked to me without asking a question.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: You know why he's having a tough time? Look at Venezuela, which is the hood ornament of progressivism. And the issue here is when you look at like Cuomo, and you look at Gillibrand, and you look at Cynthia Nixon, they're (INAUDIBLE) that are connected to any kind of success. Progressivism is like spoiled meat. No matter what dish you make, it's going to make you sick. So, what they have to do is they have.

GUTFELD: When you look at like Cuomo, and you look at Gillibrand and you look at Cynthia Nixon, there are a breath of ideas that are - that are connected to any kind of success.

Progressivism is like spoiled meat, no matter what dish you make, it's going to make you sick. So, what they have to do is they have to - they have to rely on tribalism, go after them and the head of the tribe which is Trump, he's evil.

The problem is when paychecks are rising, which they are and people are working in North Korea is in check and we have a bold market. If that's evil, I want more evil.

WILLIAMS: But - but Greg--

GUTFELD: I want evil for everybody.

WILLIAMS: All right, but Greg he said, this is what Cuomo said to that black congregation.

He said Trump is the embodiment of division and intolerance. But you guys don't think there's even - you know how you and I talk about different movies, you don't respond to me.

GUTFELD: No, no, I actually respond to it and I understand it. I think that Trump could do a better job convincing that particular audience that he is helping them, because he is helping them, lowest unemployment -

KILMEADE: You want to hear something - do you want to see something that helps Donald Trump? Statements like this from Democratic Congressman Alcee Hastings. Listen to this joke.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALCEE HASTINGS, D-FL.: I'm going to tell you one joke. Do you know the difference between a crisis sand a catastrophe? A crisis is that Donald Trumps falls in to the Potomac River, and can't swim. And he says, and a catastrophe is anybody saves his (inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KILMEADE: So, well delivered. Dana, do you think that helps anybody?

PERINO: It certainly doesn't, and I also do - you do have to think about if that had been said by a republican member of Congress about President Obama, he would've called them out on it too.

KILMEADE: Yes. Well he has to know he's in front of an audience, he has to know it's going to get out.

MCDOWELL: Well they've gotten great - they criticize the president about tweeting and the insults and alike, but they are great at throwing out leftwing click bait that all of these witless lemming gobble up and then they just regurgitate it on everybody else in the form of hate. We get it all the time-

KILMEADE: And you agree, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I don't think it helps. But I must say, I just think it's small. I think it's like, you know, I don't even think it's that funny, you know what I mean?

PERINO: It's also - that jokes been said a million times-

WILLIAMS: Right.

PERINO: You just - it's like algebra problem, x and y, you put insert--

WILLIAMS: I think a bigger problem is when I-

GUTFELD: Yes, you just said the same thing about Brian and what's his name - who's the guy that co-hosts with you?

KILMEADE: Don't - don't even-

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Blonde haired guy, or another guy?

KILMEADE: Are you seriously?

PERINO: Wrong guy, tell them that.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He introduced his dad.

KILMEADE: Right, there you go. You know it's funny, he remember s the name of the show and he has a book to sell.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: All right, before you guys, I wanted to mention that - that to me, there was big news over the weekend with Steve Bannon saying that he's sees democrats winning more than 40 seats. And I'm thinking, I thought Steve Bannon was trying to get back in with Trump?

KILMEADE: But he is, he's-

PERINO: And he's trying to scare the base as described--

WILLIAMS: Oh.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDOWELL: He's grasping for relevancy--

PERINO: True.

MCDOWELL: Is what he's doing.

KILMEADE: All right, hey listen, we ran out of gas. Let's change-

GUTFELD: Not me.

KILMEADE: Let's change gears and talk a little about social media.

GUTFELD: I had cabbage.

KILMEADE: And we're going to handle that. Meanwhile the CEO - cabbage?

GUTFELD: Yes.

KILMEADE: In August?

GUTFELD: Yes.

KILMEADE: The CEO of Twitter makes his stunning initiative about his company's liberal bias. Greg's got the social media scoop, unless he's overcome by the cabbage.

GUTFELD: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Your suspicions have been conformed: The king of Twitter admits his social media giant is run by a cauldron of bias.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACK DORSEY, CEO OF TWITTER: We do not look at content with regards to political viewpoint or ideology. We look at behavior. We need to constantly show that we are not adding our own bias, which I fully admit is - is - is more left-leaning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Hardly surprising, almost all press has a liberal slant. I know. I've worked in every kind of media, and I was always the odd man out, even in those art films I made in Germany.

And it's obvious with Twitter and how they treat the fringes: Fringe right, you're banned; fringe left, have a seat in our private lounge. You can hate both whack packs and still see Jack run to the left.

This admission is key in the era of fake news accusations. What Trump's been doing is what we've been doing for decades: Sitting in front of the TV, shouting at the bias merchants, at those big networks, as they delivered shoddy claims on climate change, gun control, tax cuts, and God knows what else. We screamed until somebody listened. Yes, the huge success of fair and balanced shows that you were only getting half the story before, the half that's imbalanced and unfair. Because that half of the story is no story, it's fake news. It's just what we said it was.

But Trump just crunched the complaint into two handy words. Instead of it being shouted at the TV, it's now coming from the TV. Before the rulers of the airwaves could mock Mr. and Mrs. Jones on Main Street for their anger, it's hard to do that, now that the guy in Pennsylvania Avenue has become the Jones' spokesman. So it's no wonder new media is confessing its sins to cable's nosey neighbor. The know the jig, once again, is up.

Dana, was it hardly surprising that - what he said?

KILMEADE: I got to give him credit for admitting it.

PERINO: I say - well, I give him credit for a few things. He could've tweeted this -

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: - but instead, he is not hiding in Silicon Valley. He has actually come to do in person interviews.

GUTFELD: But not at Fox.

PERINO: Well, maybe he will. Maybe he'll come sit with us here at "The Five," if you'd like that. I also thought it was interesting that he said that they're - that he regrets the decision to make Twitter about getting more followers, and that he wishes and they are going to try to turn it around, that it should be about wanting to follow stories and hashtags and issues, which would have been a very different thing in the beginning.

GUTFELD: Interesting, I don't know if I would like that.

PERINO: I don't know either, but at least they are out there thinking about it. I think that they are also doing some of this press because it is a big hearing on September 5th, the day after Labor Day where Twitter, Facebook and Google all have to be in front of the senate.

GUTFELD: Well that will be fun.

PERINO: Yes, remember those -- that's also the same day as the Kavanaugh hearings though, so there will be competition.

GUTFELD: Boy you're going to have a ball. The Daily Briefing is going to be hearing mad.

KILMEADE: Do you have 50 followers on Twitter?

GUTFELD: Not yet. I think two, three, I might get, if the show goes well. I might have two people get on. I don't even know why you'd have Twitter if you don't feel as if you have a bigger footprint. One of the things about Twitter is not just to get followers so you can brag on The Five,

GUTFELD: An ego trip.

KILMEADE: It's to actually be able to say, hey, Greg, your, Huntington Book Review, come by. And you can actually -

GUTFELD: What would be better is saying I'll be at the Villages on Saturday.

KILMEADE: Is that hypothetical or is that real?

GUTFELD: What? It's true.

KILMEADE: OK, fine.

GUTFELD: Huntington was last week, you don't want to confuse people if you don't need to.

KILMEADE: You're right, I apologize. But again, we go back to your favorite show. So, he admits that his people lean to the left.

GUTFELD: Right.

KILMEADE: So, he admits that that is playing a role in his.

PERINO: No, that's not what he said. He said they admit they roll left, but that they don't, but what he says is we do not look at content with regards to political viewpoint or ideology, we look at behavior.

GUTFELD: But I don't believe him.

KILMEADE: But he says he admits they have to, they have to continue to show, to make sure there's no bias.

GUTFELD: Right.

KILMEADE: But to me it sounds like he can't control his employees. Even if he leans to the left but wants a fair and balanced for the business model to work, it seems he can't control the people that are screening out a lot of the material.

GUTFELD: That's the implication. Now, Juan, you've been in journalism since the, I remember reading you in the '80's.

WILLIAMS: In the '80's? How about in the '20's.

GUTFELD: Yes, but I mean you have to admit, you knew that the newsroom was biased, and it had to have some effect on what came out on the page.

WILLIAMS: I guess it does, I don't think that it, this, we can go back to the whole argument about Peter Strzuk, you know, so if your people, it's like saying I work at Fox, most people here are conservatives. Do I think it impacts our content? Yes, but do I think it results in bias from the straight news people here? I don't think so, but could be, I leave it to you to judge.

KILMEADE: Well, Peter Strzuk set a good example, he has a plan to stop Trump.

WILLIAMS: No, he didn't have a plan, he said he didn't like Trump.

KILMEADE: He was bragging to his girlfriend?

WILLIAMS: I'm just telling what the IG said.

GUTFELD: It wasn't his girlfriend, that was his lover.

WILLIAMS: I think the bigger thing with Jack Dorsey, though, is to my mind, from my perspective, Dorsey's the one guy that said, Alex Jones, with all your conspiracy theories, you can hang around.

McDOWELL: Which the left is outraged by.

PERINO: (inaudible)

WILLIAMS: So Apple, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify, they all said this guy is about hate speech and conspiracy theories and he should not be given a platform. Dorsey does it, you guys say oh, so what if his, some of his staff are liberal?

GUTFELD: Farrakhan, we just want equal treatment for all whack jobs.

McDOWELL: Right. Freely distributing videos from the Islamic State of murders and beheadings, that's fine. But because again, this went on and on, this was YouTube, this was Facebook, this was Twitter, for years that they didn't police any of that content. The issue is when we talk about Alex Jones and all those technology companies, all of a sudden the why now, why did they dump Alex Jones at that one point? It raises the issue of these companies have gotten way too big, that the government stood by particularly with Facebook, with the acquisition of Instragram and WhatzApp, they've gotten too big and they're asking to be broken up quite frankly.

And the fact that they all acted somewhat in unison about that, it smells-

PERINO: I don't actually have an opinion on this. Do you think that's good for the market, like is that a good idea that these companies be broken up, that the government step in?

McDOWELL: It's better if the government looks at these acquisitions before they happen, and you avoid getting a concentration of power like this. But really, it's a free market, if conservatives don't like the way their speech is treated on Twitter, on Facebook, anywhere across the Internet, you're open to go out and open another social media platform.

WILLIAMS: Dagen, can I ask you just to separate out conservative thought from someone like Alex Jones? I don't think Alex Jones should be protected because you say oh, it's conservative. Alex Jones is -

GUTFELD: It's real hard defending Alex Jones. You have to defend the idiots - the whole point is the worst speech is what you protect.

McDOWELL: If you believe in free speech, it's tolerating the unacceptable -

(Crosstalk)

KILMEADE: And you put the standards of the newspapers that we've all known to - that we've all grown up with, can you put that into social media? Even if the most unbiased person is trying to weed out right and wrong on Facebook and everything else, and Google and Twitter, I think this is one of the toughest things possible.

GUTFELD: Do you think it's a bigger issue for this guy with the beard? What's his name?

PERINO: Jack Dorsey.

GUTFELD: Dorsey? Is that he's realizing he can't control what's on there?

PERINO: I think that - I think that they're all starting to realize that, so he's fearing that they're having - it's like we have created a monster. Remember Neil Ferguson's book? He said that the village square, once we were all connected it was supposed to be Utopia and it's been very different. One thing that Jack Dorsey should've taken the opportunity, to thank President Trump for keeping his platform relevant. And like everybody's flowing to it.

KILMEADE: Best thing ever.

McDOWELL: Twitter's problem is the fact that you can't target the sales of laundry detergent and pet food based on somebody's hate of Trump. And that's how they express themselves on Twitter, and by the way, they would've gotten rid of all those fake accounts years ago if they really cared about anything but the bottom line.

GUTFELD: All right, on that note, move over, paternity and maternity leave, make room for fur-ternity, we'll explain next.

KILMEADE: About time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

McDOWELL: If you're a pet parent like I am - Hi Charlie, hi Charlie - get ready for some puppy love. New dog and cat owners can now take time off from work to bond with their fur babies. A digital marketing company in Minnesota is offering fur-ternity leave. The policy allows employees to work from home for up to a week after adopting a new animal. The company says pets are just as important to their workers' families as human babies.

I know you totally agree with this, Greg Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Yes. Absolutely, this is fantastic, I support them 100 percent. If I was running a business and someone called in for fur-ternity leave, I would fire them on the spot. I would dare you to sue me. I would say, OK. You stay home with your little baby and I'm going to hire somebody with no experience and train them myself. Because if they're hard workers, they won't pull that crap. Get away from me, I never want to see you again.

KILMEADE: Let me repaint the picture.

GUTFELD: Yes.

KILMEADE: It's a snowy day.

GUTFELD: OK.

KILMEADE: And Connor McCarthy picks up the phone and calls his boss who happens to be executive vice president Allison McMinniman, and says, I just got a new dog and I cannot go into work. And Allison, one of the reasons she rose through the ranks I'm sure, said, why don't you stay home, Connor. And I got a better idea.

And because of that moment, now suddenly we have a national movement and they give everybody a week in the company. Just little ideas like that.

GUTFELD: You changed my mind. Changed my mind.

McDOWELL: You know what? Dogs make sourpusses like you better. They will make you better people. Right, Dana Perino?

PERINO: Well, I do love dogs, I do think this is ridiculous, though. I love dogs, but I'm not for this. This what I think, I think this is what you get when you have an amazing economy. You are trying anything you can to make sure that the workers that you have want to come and work for you and will stay working for you, so you're like, I know. I have a great idea. We'll give you a week off of basically working from home if you have a puppy.

GUTFELD: Look at this. This is a gratuitous segment to show pictures of -

McDOWELL: I wanted the dogs here. So at least you got a reprieve...

PERINO: But I'm not finished, but this is what happens when you have a good economy. You have companies - and I don't mind that, if a company figures that this works best for them and they get to keep employees for it, go for it.

WILLIAMS: Hey, wait a second, wait a second. They have bring your child to work day. They have companies that allow you to bring dogs to work, right? And this is beyond, before our great economy. And you have these high tech companies. Unbelievable. Ping pong, massage at work, all that.

PERINO: Why do they do that? Because they want-

WILLIAMS: Because they want talent.

PERINO: Because they want people to come work there.

WILLIAMS: No, they want the brightest young people who work 60 hours a day to stay at work.

PERINO: That's impressive, 60 hours a day.

WILLIAMS: That's what they do.

KILMEADE: If it wasn't for the masseuse, Greg would be at MSNBC right now. I was shocked to find out that pet ownership has gone up 30 percent in the last five years, 60 percent of households have a dog in the family. And with that, weave in pictures of my dog, that's why I'm trying to filibuster. Can you get my dog on at all?

PERINO: There they are.

McDOWELL: Which by the way, I was here the morning that you brought these dogs on the show, you have zero control over either of them.

KILMEADE: That is not true.

McDOWELL: There was fur from the basement of this building all the way up to the floor that we're on. You are a horrible dog parent.

KILMEADE: There's a little spinoff called Fox and Fur. It's a pet show.

GUTFELD: You know what? Actually that's a great idea, Fox and Fur. It's a one-hour show?

McDOWELL: It could be sponsored by.

GUTFELD: It could be every weekend, Friday night.

McDOWELL: But I'll say this. I'm for this policy because I want people to rescue dogs, and if there's any way to save a life, I am double thumbs up on that regulation.

WILLIAMS: She said something very moving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for one more thing, I will kick it off. You've heard about angels in the outfield, but what about in the infield? Take a look at Sister Mary Jo Sobieck of Marian Catholic High School. She took the mound in Chicago to throw the opening pitch of the White Sox game and it was a perfect pitch. White Sox pitcher Lucas Diolito caught the ball and praised the sister, saying she threw a perfect pitch. So that's you know, you got to throw like a girl sometimes.

Greg? Your turn.

GUTFELD: She threw a nun-hitter. Greg's Secrets to Happiness, as you know, I've been traveling on a book tour, if you haven't bought my book you're dead to me. But it's very, very exhausting. I find the best thing to do after a long flight is to take a bath. Here's a picture of me, a video of me getting a bath after a long red-eye flight last week. Yes, it's just really nice just to hang back and relax.

KILMEADE: That's you?

GUTFELD: No, it's a hedge-hug, hedgehog. Or a hedge-hug, I don't know.

KILMEADE: Do they really smell bad?

GUTFELD: They're adorable, aren't they?

PERINO: They smell bad? I didn't know that.

KILMEADE: They do. And they poke you, they're like spiky. They're not cuddly.

GUTFELD: I wear gloves.

PERINO: All right, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Oh, well, so today's August 20th as you may know, and I was surprised this morning to find out it's the first day of school in D. C.

KILMEADE: Whoa.

WILLIAMS: Take a look at my grandkids, folks. Eli's starting third grade. The girls are off to first grade. New shoes, fresh haircuts, and of course sparkling backpacks. When I was a kid, school started after Labor Day in Brooklyn, New York, but apparently the first day of school is different all across the country, and it's getting earlier and earlier. Hawaii, Indiana, Arizona, even parts of Oklahoma, students are already in school. Some of them started in late July.

GUTFELD: Ah-hah.

WILLIAMS: In Atlanta, Phoenix, Indianapolis, they've been in school since August 5th. It seems a little hot for school to me, but you know what, kids? Welcome back, this is a new world.

PERINO: All right. Did you hear that, Brian? The nun that we just showed? She's going to be on Fox and Friends tomorrow.

KILMEADE: I did not hear that, but I was going to promote that -

PERINO: And I think she's going to try to dunk you in a dunking -

KILMEADE: I think it's a dunk tank here, but if you think I'm getting in that dunk tank, there's no way. That's why Gutfeld is doing a special appearance.

Hey, I got to tell you, my good friend Tim Green's got a brand new book out, and he's the same Tim Green that was an outstanding broadcaster, written 37 books, he's a lawyer, and by the way, one of the best players Syracuse University ever had, who went on to star in Atlanta, his 37th book is called The Big Game, you ought to go pick it up. It's one of those books for 8 to 18 year olds, you would appreciate it for your grandkids, and this is the type of thing that kids open up and they want to read. And Tim talks about a football player whose father died and he gets suspended from school because he can't read, the secret's out. And maybe it ends happily, maybe it doesn't, but pick up The Big Game.

PERINO: I bet it ends happily.

GUTFELD: I hope so.

PERINO: If you want to keep reading it. OK, Dagen.

McDOWELL: This ends happily, but earlier today, Gatwick Airport had to use a whiteboard and a megaphone because the flight information system went down.

ALL: Oh, no.

McDOWELL: It was an IT failure. Gatwick Airport blamed Vodafone, everything's cleared up now. But just imagine the utter pandemonium if this happened in Penn Station.

KILMEADE: That's fantastic. Air travel is going backwards.

PERINO: All right, set your DVRs, never miss an episode of the "The Five." "Special Report" is up next. I don't have anything else, so it's up to you, Brian.

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