This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," February 11, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Thank you, Bret. Good to see you tonight.
All right, everybody. Breaking tonight, the 2020 story live from the border tonight as Beto O'Rourke marches with protesters, and President Trump comes to rally El Paso as negotiations back in D.C. get a little bit rocky.
Also tonight, the Virginia saga gets worst. Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax is now fighting back. Saying, "Due process is at the heart of our constitutional democracy in order to get to the truth. Even when faced with those allegations, I am still standing up for everyone's right to be heard. I'm also standing up for due process."
He claims that he is innocent of two accusations of sexual assault. He would like the FBI to investigate. His accusers now want to testify. And why does Governor Northam keep talking? Good question, right? So, he is now in hot water again for equating slavery with indentured servitude.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RALPH NORTHAM, (D), VIRGINIA: The first indentured servant from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort, what we call now Fort Monroe. And while --
GAYLE KING, CO-ANCHOR, CBS THIS MORNING, CBS: Also known as slavery?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Yes. Lots to get to tonight. Including an exclusive with former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who is in the house. Hot off the release of his exclusive -- explosive book about the Trump campaign.
So, how does he see this huge Democrat race shaping up and President Trump's chances? He's going to be here in a minute. But first, Fox News senior judicial analyst Judge Andrew Napolitano on where Virginia's lieutenant governor goes from here. He wants an FBI investigation. Judge.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: He's not going to get one. I mean the FBI can only investigate a federal crime or a material breach of national security, and that's not the case here.
The FBI doesn't give advisory opinion, say, "Lieutenant governor, we looked at this and we think you didn't committed a crime." He also cannot be impeached because of the Virginia constitution sets forth very explicitly that high-ranking government officials that had named them and he's listed in the -- in the naming, can only be impeached for misbehavior in while in office.
However, the statute of limitations on sexual assault has not run in Massachusetts. It's got about six or seven months to go. There is no statute of limitations on sexual assault in North Carolina. That would require both of the alleged victims to cooperate with local prosecutors to go there right away and explain what happened and persuade them that there's a case.
MACCALLUM: right: And they had said initially that they had no interest in telling their story publicly, that they were not going to press criminal charges. But it appears that that's the only venue for them, then, that maybe the way they go.
NAPOLITANO: That is the --
MACCALLUM: They both say now that they would like to testify and that they have evidence that corroborates their story.
NAPOLITANO: Look, prosecutors summon grand juries, and grand juries can issue subpoenas, and judges can issue search warrants. So, that is the only venue with teeth, if you will, that can compel the testimony that would corroborate or contradict what they say.
You know, for them to make these allegations, why would they make an allegation of this specificity and ferocity if it weren't true? Flipside, why would they make an allegation like this and then, not follow up (INAUDIBLE). What does the lieutenant governor suppose to do if there's no forum in which he can vindicate himself?
MACCALLUM: Good, good, good question. And he says that he wants due process. He is claiming that he is innocent, which he has every right to do. And he wants so the only due process that could be afforded to him is if they go the court route.
MACCALLUM: Correct. Which means going to another state in which neither of them resides and persuading prosecutors to take cases more than are more than 15 years old.
MACCALLUM: What about Governor Northam's comments?
NAPOLITANO: Governor Northam is unfit for office. He's unfit for office because he's in favor of destroying babies after they're born alive after abortion. I know that's not what we're talking about. But his attitude --
MACCALLUM: That is what started all of this.
NAPOLITANO: That is what started all of this. Correct. But his attitude about race and refusal to recognize these things by their true names, slavery is slavery, is reprehensible. But the polls don't agree with me. The polls are evenly splitted amongst African-Americans in Virginia, more want him to stay than leave. That's a head-scratcher.
MACCALLUM: Judge, thank you very much.
NAPOLITANO: You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: So, as we mentioned, the state of Virginia is grappling with the scandal involving Governor Ralph Northam over the 1984 yearbook photo of -- someone in the photo. He says now it wasn't him. He first said it was him, wearing blackface.
Voters are evenly split as the judge just said about whether or not he should resign, according to a new poll. And Northam, says he will stay put.
NORTHAM: Virginia also needs someone who is strong, who has empathy, who has courage, and who has a moral compass. And that's why I'm not going anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: My next guest recently sat down with Governor Northam, and says that it is time to forgive and move on. John Boyd is the founder and president of the National Black Farmers Association. And he joins me now. Mr. Boyd, thank you for being here today.
JOHN BOYD, FOUNDER, NATIONAL BLACK FARMERS ASSOCIATION: Thank you -- thank you very much for having me.
MACCALLUM: We played -- thank you, sir. We played the comment on the way in, in his interview with Gayle King, where he referred to slavery as indentured servitude. What would you say to him tonight about that?
BOYD: Right. Well, they were called indentured servants when they first get to -- when we first got Virginia, and we're celebrating 400 years since the birth of slavery here in Virginia.
So, when we first got there, we were -- some people referred to us as indentured servants. But the correct term is slavery. But --
MACCALLUM: But that was -- it wasn't --
BOYD: For African Americans, it was a bad chapter for us.
MACCALLUM: And it was -- indentured servitude -- you know, is more commonly seen as a sort of a contract. You can work your way out of eventually, and you work for no money while you're living on the land. And then, eventually, you have the opportunity to be free under that agreement, correct? Which is different than being taken from your country and brought here against your will and forced into -- forced into work for no money, which is known as slavery.
BOYD: Right. Right. And you know, both are wrong. And I think that the governor sometimes doesn't use the right choice of words on a certain situations. So, but I did had a -- I had a very good meeting with the governor here in Virginia. And the meeting came place after I first met with him about the government shutdown. And he reached out to see how he could help African-American farmers in Virginia during the government shutdown.
And after the issue of blackface came about, his administration reached out to me and asked me to come in to talk to them about it. And we had a very candid meeting about blackface. I prayed -- I prayed for Virginians, I pray for this country, I pray for his family, and I pray for a healing, healing here in the state of Virginia.
So, we had a very, very candid conversation, and the governor admitted that he had a lot to learn about race and those type of things. And he asked for forgiveness. And I believe in the power of redemption and the power of forgiving somebody when they reach out to you and express that -- express that to you.
So, I looked into his eyes, and we had a very, very deep conversation -- very candid conversation. And after that meeting, I agreed to give the governor a second chance so we could move forward in Virginia. You know, there's a lot of turmoil here in Virginia. And we really need healing.
And right now, the country's watching, the world is watching everything that's transpiring here in Virginia. And I really, really would like for Virginians to come together and start working together to see how we can move Virginia in a positive direction.
MACCALLUM: Well, forgiveness is a powerful thing. And as you say, you had an opportunity that most people have not had to sit across from him and speak about what's in his heart.
MACCALLUM: And we thank you for bringing that testimony to us tonight. Mr. Boyd, thank you very much. We'll see what happens next.
BOYD: Thank you very much for having me.
MACCALLUM: Thank you for being here, sir. Coming up next, two more Democrats enter the ring to go up against President Trump in 2020. But are they prepared for a fight?
Governor Chris Christie has a little bit of experience with a big crowd of candidates running up on one stage. He joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Senator Lawrence is bruised. And Billy, who I think is sleeping back there, and me. OK. So, two out of three of us are very excited.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So, another weekend and two more Democrats have entered the race, Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren, hoping to go head-to-head against the president for the White House in 2020.
They're going to have to go through an already pretty crowded field and getting bigger by the minute. But it hasn't stopped them from coming out swinging. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Our nation must be governed not from chaos, but from opportunity. Not by wallowing over what's wrong, but by marching in inexorably toward what's right.
WARREN: You know, here is what bothers me. By the time we get to 2020, Donald Trump may not even be president. In fact, he may not even be a free person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Here now exclusively, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, author of the new book, Let me finish: Trump, the Kushners, Bannon, New Jersey, and the Power of In-Your-Face Politics, which is now number five on the New York Times' best-seller list. Governor, great to have you here. Thanks for being here.
CHRIS CHRISTIE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So, I want to talk to you about 2020.
MACCALLUM: Because you know what is like, put up the pictures of the early round of the Republican candidates. They were 17 up there. We were moderating debates out in Iowa. You know, how tough is it for anybody in that kind of crowded field to stand out? You tried it.
CHRISTIE: It's incredibly hard, and even when you get raided as we did really well in the debates. And the top two or three people in every debate, and where there was 10 or 11 people on the stage, it didn't matter.
It was very hard to get any kind of coverage. And then, especially with Donald Trump in the race, that made it even harder than just the numbers because of his notoriety from all the years on television with The Apprentice.
MACCALLUM: You say you always knew he was going to win. That's why you backed him right away. As soon as you -- as soon as you dropped out, you backed him the next day, which was shocking to a lot of people.
CHRISTIE: It was and I took a lot of abuse for it. But what I said to folks was he is going to win the nomination. And so we have an obligation to make sure Hillary Clinton doesn't become president United States and I wasn't going to sit on the sidelines. You know, too many people sat on the sidelines during the primary and didn't support people.
Well, Donald Trump was going to be the nominee. That's who the people were supporting. So I had to get behind them and try to make him a better candidate and hopefully a better president.
MACCALLUM: I want to get back to 2020. But you thought going to the dance a few times on a number of different jobs, but why are you still so loyal to him, attorney general, the transition, and then just recently, you spoke out about this recently in the New York Times. You really thought you were going to get that chief of staff job. You put your whole book tour on hold.
CHRISTIE: Well, I withdrew myself from that Martha, because I decided I didn't want to do it. So to be fair the president, that wasn't something that I wanted to be offered. And when I spoke to him about it, I got the feeling that it might be a direction he was moving in. I called him the next day and said, listen, it's just not the right time for me personally.
The reason why I'm loyal to him is we have one person at a time. This isn't about me, this is about the country. And do we want him to achieve great things for our country? Do you want to make sure that we don't get a socialist president in 2020? Yes.
And so what's much more important is always working for the country. And by the way, the president's always been very good to me personally. As I write in the book, some of the folks around them not so much.
MACCALLUM: What about -- how are the folks around him now, Mick Mulvaney - -
CHRISTIE: Better, much better.
MACCALLUM: So you feel good about who's advising him right now?
CHRISTIE: Yes, listen, I think Mickey is doing a really good job. I think he's an experienced guy. I think Kellyanne Conway is always been very good and she knows how to speak to the president and speak for the president and I think he's got a better cabinet. I think Mike Pompeo is an improvement at State, Alex Azar is a big improvement of Human Services -- Health and Human Services so he's got a better team now than when he started.
MACCALLUM: So he's going to be running against one of these people. This is Elizabeth Warren talking about the wealthy. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: We need to take power in Washington away from the wealthy and well-connected and put it back in the hands of the people where it belongs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: And give her the credit. That's going to resonate with a lot of people.
CHRISTIE: It will with some but I'll tell you something. What will resonate is when they start putting price tags in all the things they're promising. And the American people hear about Medicare for all and realized that it's going to bankrupt them and bankrupt our country and take away their private health insurance.
185 million Americans have private health insurance. They don't want to give that up. And that's what Elizabeth Warren is for. They want this green agenda on that is going to really cost the country trillions of dollars. I mean, when we start putting price tags in these things, they realize the freedom they're giving up.
The president was right the other night in the State of the Union. They're moving us towards a socialist agenda. It's unacceptable and we need the president to stand up to this and we -- I bet you a lot of middle America is going to hear this for a little while and once they get a belly full of it, they're not going to like it.
MACCALLUM: Here's Kamala Harris. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Let's make the statement very clear. I believe we need to legalize marijuana.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever smoked --
HARRIS: I have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
HARRIS: And I -- and I inhale. I did -- I did inhale. It was a long time ago. Listen, I think that it gives a lot of people joy and we need more joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Everybody is pro-pot right now, right?
CHRISTIE: Yes, I mean, listen --
MACCALLUM: I mean, look across the country. It's going to be legal in every state in America probably before it's through.
CHRISTIE: It's ridiculous.
MACCALLUM: You worked hard to get allowed -- to get drugs off the street.
CHRISTIE: We did as a U.S. Attorney and I worked hard to keep them off the streets as governor. And I was chairman of the president's opioid Commission and then the studies show that marijuana, especially for our young people, is a gateway drug into other drugs. It's wrong to do it. Kamala Harris can laugh all she wants, but she should go to some of these funerals that are happening around the country and wonder if she's ever done that.
Gone to a funeral and looked in the eyes of parents who had a child who died of an opioid overdose and have those parents tell them the stories about how it started for that child with marijuana. I've gone and done that and maybe Senator Harris should do that then she wouldn't be -- she would be chuckling about joy.
MACCALLUM: I've heard the same thing from parents who lost their sons and nephews. They say exactly the same thing. National emergency, is that something the president should try?
CHRISTIE: Well, listen, if they're not going to come up with a reasonable compromise, they're going to leave him no choice. Now, I don't think it's great policy to do that, but if they're going to say no way, we're not going to fund the wall in any way for the president, then they leave the president with no choice and then the responsibility falls on the Democrats.
The president has shown willingness to compromise here. He's been in the spirit of compromise, the Republicans have been negotiating. If they don't want to compromise with the president, then the president's going to have no choice but to do it. I hope they come to a deal because they've got to be better for the country. But if they don't, the president's going to do what he needs to do.
MACCALLUM: Joe Biden, that's a 2020, real quick before I let you go. Let's take a look. 62 percent say that -- of Democrats say they think he should get in, 28 percent say he should stay out, 10 have no opinion. What changes -- the moment he's in, does that dynamic change dramatically?
CHRISTIE: Well, of course, because if people start shooting at him and he's the front-runner. And there was a time when I was the front-runner in the race and believe me, you never see more incoming than when you're the front-runner.
But I will tell you this. The one thing I will say about Biden is that because he has the ability coming from Scranton, Pennsylvania to appeal in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and Wisconsin, he could peel off some of those white working-class voters. I know the president is keeping an eye on Joe Biden. Now, can Joe stay on the rails? Can he keep his mouth you know, appropriate?
MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, the president called him dumb the other day.
CHRISTIE: I understand. And Joe has said some things over time that would make people wonder whether or not he's really thinking. So we got to see how he performs. But right now, if I were Donald Trump, I keep the closest eye on Joe Biden.
MACCALLUM: Should he be concerned about Howard Schultz?
CHRISTIE: No. In fact, I want to get Howard Schultz t-shirt that says run Howard run. Get in the race being Independent. He will guarantee a Trump victory in 2020 if he gets into the race as an Independent. It is a fool's errand but we welcome him to do it.
MACCALLUM: Governor, good to see you. Governor Christie, thanks for being here.
CHRISTIE: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Congratulations on the book. It's called Let Me -- when did you ever not get a chance to finish? You always finish.
CHRISTIE: You know, not always, Martha. We still got more to say.
MACCALLUM: When is the next chapter?
CHRISTIE: We're going to see. We're going to see. You know, listen, I love public service and we're doing some stuff now to let -- make sure the rest of the kids are able to go to college and not worry about that. But then after that, I got a feeling I'll be back in public life.
MACCALLUM: All right. Good to see you. Thank you very much.
CHRISTIE: Thanks, Martha. Coming up tonight, President Trump is going to make his case for the border wall during a rally in El Paso while dueling events is going on by Beto O'Rourke aiming to stifle that message. Geraldo Rivera coming up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to keep our country safe. We need a wall. We can have technology, we can have beautiful drones flying all over the place, but it doesn't work without the wall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: I unequivocally apologize, that from freshman Democrat Congresswoman Ilhan Omar after swift backlash from Republicans and members of her own party including Nancy Pelosi who called her anti-Israel comments "deeply offensive." David Spunt is on Capitol Hill tonight with the back story for us with the Back Story for us. Hi, David!
DAVID SPUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha! Good evening. Well, Congresswoman Omar just started walking the halls here on Capitol Hill just a little bit more than a month ago. She's already made some serious high- profile enemies. These latest comments came in the form of tweets. Both sides of the aisle are furious about these comments.
Now, Ilhan Omar, she represents a district just outside of Minneapolis, came under fire last night after critics say her tweets were full of stereotypes about Jews and money. A follower asked Omar "Who is paying American politicians to support Israel? She responded AIPAC, in reference to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.
In another tweet criticizing members of Congress for taking a hard stance on Omar's comments, she tweeted "it's all about the Benjamins baby," meaning, $100-bills. But after repeated condemnation from Republican and Democratic leaders, Martha, Omar took to Twitter again this time issuing an apology late this afternoon.
She tweeted "Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes. My intention is never to offend my constituents or Jewish Americans as a whole. We have to always be willing to step back and think through criticism just as I expect people to hear me when others attacked me for my identity. This is why I unequivocally apologize at the same time I reaffirm the problematic role of lobbyists in our politics whether it be AIPAC, the NRA, or the fossil fuel industry. It's gone on too long and we must be willing to address it."
Now, we had a camera outside of Omar's office on Capitol Hill today. No sign of her on camera. However, people putting little sticky posted notes supporting representative Ilhan Omar, all different times -- all different types of message I should say across the spectrum, nothing from Omar on camera. You can bet though, when she does come back to Capitol Hill this week -- they're off tomorrow to honor Congressman Dingell, the late Congressman Diggle -- when she's back, Martha, you can bet she will get plenty of questions about these recent comments, Martha.
MACCALLUM: No doubt. Thank you very much.
MACCALLUM: So Republican Congressman Doug Collins of Georgia who was quick to denounce Omar's comments joins me now. You know, I saw you reading along with her statement of apology and it's sort of an apology but.
REP. DOUG COLLINS (R), GEORGIA: It definitely is an apology, but.
MACCALLUM: She says, you know -- maybe we have that. We can put it back up. You know, explain why you think the second part of that sort of negates the apology to some extent.
COLLINS: It's one thing to make an apology about something. You're truly sorry about something, you do find out. We all learn. We all make mistakes. We all do things that were not proud of. And you come out and you say I'm sorry. I did wrong. Let's change the narrative.
And it makes me sad to see that that's not where she went in. She went to end with another slap at what she thinks is the straw man of money and things in politics which it has nothing to do with anti-Semitism, it has nothing to do with attacking Israel as she is has a history of doing. So I think in the end is sort of saddens me that a member of Congress who has the platform to really change the world, to raise our gaze above the things that we're seeing has chosen to take a time to continue this but then when she even -- she apologized, she said but.
MACCALLUM: So it sounds like you in some ways are separating the anti- Semitic comments she called Israel evil from her opinion about the impact of money and politics.
COLLINS: She's trying to conflate the two as well. I think when you look at both of them, I think the problem is she takes her anti-Semitism which came across very blatantly in these tweets and with others and then she attaches it to saying that the members of Congress were bought by the thing that she disliked so much and obviously that is Israel.
When you start doing that, that makes it even worse because the people in her position when she has the ability to change minds and to change attitude, she chooses to go to the lowest common denominator. That makes everybody believe again toward money or politics or whatever you want to think. And let's not take it off the eye of what's really there. Just in Congress this past month, we denounced again, white nationalism, black racism.
That was something I did on the floor leading our side. We took a member who had made comments and took them off committees. These are kind of things that real I think apology shows. And she was only forced into this apology. That's another issue you have to look at.
MACCALLUM: You know, when you look at what would you say, you know, she wasn't around today, what would you say to her if you were to explain to her how you see the effectiveness of APAC, for example, versus the way she sees it? She thinks that people are getting bought.
COLLINS: What we have to understand is everyone has an opinion that they want to bring forward. APAC is an organization if you look at them, and they defend themselves very well. But when you look at them, they work both Republican and Democrat.
I can remember having disagreements with APAC when it came to the Iran deal. There were times that these are very good friends of mine and I said, I thought they ought to be more partisan. And they said, no, we're bipartisan because we believe that's the best way to work it, by the way, which you have no seemingly knowledge of how they operate.
Again, just takes our civility and continues to knock it down. We've got to, again, raise ourselves up to where it be how we feel about and having racist or anti-Semitic thoughts, those are not tolerated in what should be the most deliberative body in the world. If we continue to go that then why do we expect anybody out in the country to think better of us?
MACCALLUM: Congressman Collins, thank you very much. Good to have you here tonight.
COLLINS: Glad to be here
MACCALLUM: So, a warning that the video that we are about to show you is disturbing. An NFL player caught attacking a young woman in a hotel lobby. Tonight, his future in the league just took a new turn. Coming up next on "The Story."
MACCALLUM: You may recall this shocking video that surfaced and got a ton of attention late last year. It is NFL running back Kareem Hunt in a hotel lobby. He was caught on the camera pushing and shoving and kicking to the ground a 19-year-old woman. He was removed from the Kansas City Chiefs. But tonight, his story is taking a new turn.
Trace Gallagher is live from our West Coast newsroom with "The Story" tonight. Hi, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Martha. Kareem Hunt just signed a one-year contract with the Cleveland Browns. At the end of one year, Hunt becomes a restricted free agent, meaning the Browns would still control his rights.
Browns general manager John Dorsey who drafted Kareem Hunt when he was the G.M. for the Chiefs back in 2017 says he's confident because Hunt has taken full responsibility for his egregious behavior, shown remorse, and agreed to continue professional therapy.
Quoting, "We fully understand and respect the complexity of questions and issues in signing a player with Kareem's history and do not condone his actions. Given what we know about Kareem through our extensive research, we believe he deserves a second chance."
In video of the accident obtained by TMZ, Hunt and a 19-year-old woman trade words and are repeatedly separated by others in a hotel wall. Hunt then pushes the woman. She responds by hitting him. Hunt then collides with another man who knocks the woman over. And that is when Kareem Hunt kicks the 19-year-old while she's on the ground.
The running back has issued his own statement along with another apology quoting again, "That is the not the man I was raised to be, and I've learned a great deal from that experience and certainly should have been more truthful about it after the fact." Hunt goes on to say he plans to earn the Browns trust.
Public reaction has been mixed with one woman posting on Twitter, quote, "how does he deserve a second chance when he's barely had time to experience the repercussions of ruining the first one?"
Then there was this, quote, "Chiefs fan here. Hunt is doing the work off field to show he is learning. He is seeking alcohol and anger management program mentoring with his pastor and meeting with women's groups. He deserves a second chance, and I wish him well."
Remember, Kareem Hunt was never arrested or charged with a crime, and both the Kansas City Chiefs and the NFL knew about the incident when it happened one year ago, but neither took any action until that video went public. We should note, as a rookie in 2017, Kareem Hunt led the league in rushing. Martha.
MACCALLUM: It's classic, right? No repercussions unless there's a video. Since the video shows up, it's a whole new story. Trace, thank you very much.
All right. Folks, live look as we get ready for the action down in El Paso. This is the Beto O'Rourke march under way. He's going to be part of that march, a live look at that coming up. And also coming up, remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RALPH NORTHAM, (D) VIRGINIA: The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: The parents of my next guest were faced with a similar decision. Now 35 years later, their son joins us tonight.
MACCALLUM: New Mexico is joining a list of states that is broadening their abortion rights. The land of enchantment will go even further than the controversial bill that was passed here in New York by scrapping language from their current state law, that states that if you administer drugs that destroy the fetus as its written and that procedure is not a justified medical termination, you could be charged with criminal abortion. They want to take that language away.
My next guest, author Daniel Ritchie says when he was born without arms, his parents were told he was not viable. He wants you to know his story, though. Daniel, thank you very much. Good to have you with us tonight.
I just want to replay for you what Governor Northam said and then I want to hear what your parents were told in this moment. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NORTHAM: The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that's what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: When you were born, a discussion ensued between the doctor and your parents. What did the doctor say to them?
DANIEL RITCHIE, PUBLIC SPEAKER AND AUTHOR: Yes. So, when I was born without arms, I wasn't breathing and had no vitals. And so, the doctor's first question to my parents was do you want us to let him go. Because you know, in his eyes, he didn't consider my life a viable life, much less a life worth living. I'm super thankful that my parents chose to have me resuscitated.
MACCALLUM: That's the saddest question imaginable.
MACCALLUM: Do you want us and your parents obviously said no.
RITCHIE: Right. Yes.
MACCALLUM: It was hard for you growing up.
RITCHIE: Yes. I mean, I think that when you're the only person that has to eat with their feet, write with their feet, do every day normal tasks like everybody else does with their hands, you feel a little bit like an oddball.
And so, I think I compared myself to other people and definitely felt like I didn't measure up and that I wasn't as good as everybody else that had two arms.
MACCALLUM: What message do you have for these states that are making it easier to terminate a pregnancy when a child is not deemed to be viable because you are clearly viable?
MACCALLUM: You're married. You have two children. What would you say to them while they're considering these laws?
RITCHIE: Yes. I think -- that was a lot of the language in what we see here in New York and what we saw in the legislation in Virginia where severe abnormalities or birth defects are justifiable reasons for late-term abortions. When doctors truly -- do not know what the long-term prospect is for a lot of these kids.
Ma'am, I was considered to never write, never eat, never graduate high school, never live on my own. And here I am, you know, 34 years later enjoying being a dad, enjoying being a speaker and a pastor. So I think that we start to step into dangerous territory when we start to think how valuable a child's life will be based on --
MACCALLUM: You just can't know.
MACCALLUM: You talk about a moment that happened when you were 15. That's a tough age for most kids.
MACCALLUM: But tell me what happened that changed your life at 15.
RITCHIE: Yes. It was trusting Jesus as my lord. It was knowing that even in my weakest moment, even in the fact that I'm completely different than everybody else, that God had a plan, that God still loved me even though I had two empty sleeves and that he gave me something a whole lot better than two arms.
He gave me his son to give me hope in this life and salvation in the next and to trust in that and rest in that. It changed my life from 15 until now. I think that's the reason why I am where I am today.
MACCALLUM: What do your kids say about it?
RITCHIE: They think it's pretty cool, you know, when dad can eat with his feet and drive a car with his feet. They think it's cool.
MACCALLUM: Daniel, good to have you here. You know, and you're speaking all around the country. And you clearly have a message for these states.
RITCHIE: Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much.
MACCALLUM: Thank you for being here. Daniel Ritchie, a testament to saying yes, which your parents did. Thank you, sir.
RITCHIE: Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
MACCALLUM: Honor to meet you. Thanks for being here. Coming up, dueling political rallies tonight on the border in El Paso with two diametrically opposed messages about the border. President Trump will be at one. Former Congressman Beto O'Rourke, who is thinking about running for president, will be the face of the other. Geraldo Rivera and Marie Harf, up next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The border city of El Paso, Texas, used to have extremely high rates of violent crime. Now, immediately upon its building with a powerful barrier in place, El Paso is one of the safest cities in our country. Simply put, walls work and walls save lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: That was the president talking about the border wall. And he's in El Paso, Texas, tonight. I just want to point out on the others -- he's going to make the case obviously, which he just stated in the State of the Union address, that he believes that the wall made people safer.
At the same time, you got a dueling rally on the other side. And I just want to point out we were just watching Congresswoman Veronica Escobar who took the seat that Beto O'Rourke vacated. And here's Bero O'Rourke. Let's listen to this for just a second here.
REP. BETO O'ROURKE, (D) TEXAS: I'm so proud of this community at this defining moment of truth. The eyes of this country are on us now. Here we are at the center of the U.S.-Mexico border.
MACCALLUM: That's Beto O'Rourke. We're going to keep an eye on that. Kristin Fisher is standing by live in El Paso tonight with the very latest. Kristen.
KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: So, Martha, if you take a look at the banners behind me, you can see it appears that we have new slogan tonight from build the wall to finish the wall.
President Trump is coming to El Paso to try to make the case that walls work. And that El Paso is proof that walls work. As we were saying, President Trump he first made the case in his State of the Union last week that their voice assumes as this --
MACCALLUM: Tough to hear Kristin. It's obviously a very loud crowd there. We'll get back to her if we can get that fixed.
Here now, Geraldo Rivera, Fox News correspondent-at-large. And Marie Harf, former State Department spokesperson and a Fox News analyst.
I mean, you really have the heart of the debate going on at this moment in El Paso. And you hear Veronica Escobar and Beto O'Rourke arguing that the city is safe, that the wall has no impact on its safety either way, Geraldo. I want to start by going back to some reporting that you did, Geraldo, back in 2009 in this exact spot. Let's play that and I want to hear your thoughts on it today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: It really is a tale of two cities. On the Mexican side, Juarez with 2,000 murders just since January 2008. On the other side of the line, El Paso with fewer than 20 homicides during that same period. Twenty homicides, 2,000 homicides. These cities are approximately the same size. That gives you an idea of the bloodshed that's going on here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Geraldo, what do you think when you look back at that and you hear the argument today in that same area where we're going to hear from the president tonight?
RIVERA: I hear the echoes of 2009 when the bad guy was President Obama, the deporter-in-chief. Someone who, you know, the president, the 44th president who wanted to mobilize and did mobilize the military to help him fight the cross-border crime and the threat of it and unregulated immigration.
You know, I think that what has to happen here is a kind of a more reasoned approach. We need a strong border to have order to protect immigrants and to prevent crime from seeping over. Juarez is one of the 20 most dangerous cities on earth. In 2009, it was more dangerous than Baghdad, or Kabul, Afghanistan.
I mean, these are realities. Two hundred -- you know, 2,000 murders compared to 20. That's the reality that no amount of spinning can change, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Marie, I mean, if you live there, you're going to want a barrier. You're going to want to be protected from that. Why wouldn't everyone want anything that could make them and their families safer?
MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS RADIO CO-HOST: Well, Martha, the crime rate in El Paso was falling dramatically before the border wall --
MACCALLUM: That's right.
HARF: -- and the barriers and fencing were built there. And so, they're not directly correlated. Certainly, fencing helps in a lot of areas. But it's not a panacea, it's not the end all, be all.
And I would say that every member of Congress in every district, the borders -- the Mexican and United States border, they are opposed to Donald Trump's border wall. They are opposed to his rhetoric.
So, the people that actually live on the border take a much more nuanced stance like Geraldo is talking about. They know barriers are needed in some places, particularly urban areas. But they know in much of the border, you can't take people's land through imminent domain or there are better ways to secure the border.
It's those people that actually live on the border. The folks who live in El Paso who have come out since the president mentioned their city in the State of the Union, law enforcement officials there who said we don't need what President Trump is trying to sell us. We need smart security but do not bring him to bring that kind of rhetoric that's not based in reality down to our city. And Beto O'Rourke I will say --
MACCALLUM: But they just say, I mean, they don't like --
HARF: -- he is doing a good job there.
MACCALLUM: Marie, they don't like him. It doesn't matter what he says. If he says the sky is blue, they are going to say the sky is not blue.
RIVERA: I think Beto O'Rourke's rhetoric is this --
MACCALLUM: But they are sounding, Geraldo, one second. You know, exactly what Marie is saying and what you're saying are sounding a lot like where the president is on this issue right now. He has definitely moved closer to that solution where there are different measures that work in different places. And Democrats seem to feel the same way.
So, I think a lot of folks, Geraldo, are trying to figure out, if we can all figure that out, why can't they in Washington?
RIVERA: You know, in Juarez and El Paso, just like Tijuana and San Diego, these are one city. They are sister cities. They have families that are divided. Some commute into Mexico to work. Some commute into the United States to work. There are citizen children living -- U.S. citizen children living in Mexico and vice versa.
MACCALLUM: But they are different countries, Geraldo.
RIVERA: These are blended communities, but you need to know who's crossing.
MACCALLUM: That's fine, but you have -- you can't come across unless you're a legal citizen or you have a work permit, right?
RIVERA: Agreed. Agreed. You need to regulate. That's why I am for these kinds of, you know, organizational structures. This wall and the bridge across the river, it works in El Paso and Juarez.
But I would spread that -- you know, the president's message should be just like my predecessor Barack Obama, just like his predecessor George W. Bush, I want order on the border for the migrants' safety and the for the residents' safety.
MACCALLUM: Should that be the message, Marie, and you know, is there any different really? That President Obama sent military to the border. He also wanted the Secure Fence Act which was 2006. There were tons of agreements on it. So, what's the problem now other than what it appears to be, which is that it's President Trump?
HARF: Well, no, I don't think that's fair. President Trump, first of all, his rhetoric is incredibly much more heated and much more divisive. And I do think that on these issues, rhetoric matters.
And also, his proposals for the border wall, for the fencing, the separation of families, that has gone way beyond anything that any previous administration has done. So politicly speaking here, Martha, I think this is the first 2020 rally for President Trump. That's what we're going to see --
MACCALLUM: I think you're right that that's going to continue to be a very contentious move on his part that will absolutely come up throughout the Democratic race. And it will used -- it will be used against him to be sure.
But the issue of what people want at the border is so fairly consistent. I don't even think rhetoric matters. Because when you're talking about a wall and you know, that may be offensive to some people, and that's fine. That's their opinion. But they're all talking about the same thing essentially.
HARF: But Martha, a majority of people do not think we should build the wall. They do support some kind of fencing. And if you just talk Donald trump ran in the midterm election in 2018, he aggressively pushed a closing argument for the Republicans based on hard-line immigration policies and they lost a record number of seats in the House. The Democrats beat them on this issue.
So politicly speaking, this may help with his base. This will not help him in 2020 if he doesn't find some moderation, which I just don't think he has in him on this issue.
MACCALLUM: Last thought about 10 seconds, Geraldo.
RIVERA: See, I think moderation -- the Democrats need to moderate also. They hate anything having to do with President Trump. If President Trump's name was not associated with the border barrier, was not extolling the virtue of the system that exists in places like El Paso and Juarez, it would be a whole different story.
It is so hypocritical to hear the same people who were silent when Barack Obama brought the military in --
MACCALLUM: We got to leave it there.
RIVERA: -- and when he advocated and embraced the whole notion of border security and was called the deporter-in-chief --
MACCALLUM: I've got to go. Thanks, Geraldo. Thanks, Marie. Have a good night. Tucker's up next.
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