Call for probe into VA deaths allegedly tied to delayed care

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 25, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Jesse Watters, who is turning on his phone right now, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."


PERINO: Well, dozens of sick veterans died while waiting for health care at the V.A. Medical Center in Arizona. Some senators are demanding a congressional investigation. A new report says that vets waited months or even years for appointments, and the V.A. created secret waiting lists to cover it up.

Here's a family member of one of the victims.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just dismissed him like an animal. I believe that if they did further testing, that if there was cancer, they could have gave him the care he needed.


PERINO: Retired V.A. doctor, Sam Foote, blew the whistle on the scheme. He spoke to Megyn Kelly last night.


DR. SAM FOOTE, RETIRED V.A. DOCTOR: In February 2013, they started a secret waiting list, it was a paper list. So, when you would come in for an appointment, they tap your information into the computer and then rather than hit "save," they would print it. And then there was actually no record that you were even been there in their computer.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS HOST: Why would this administrator, Ms. Helman, and why those underneath her do this?

FOOTE: Well, we felt it was part of a scheme to try to get herself a bonus by having the waiting times look better than they really were.


PERINO: Sharon Helman, the director of the Phoenix VA health system, is denying involvement.


SHARON HELMAN, PHOENIX VA HEALTH SYSTEM DIRECTOR: I have never directed staff to do a secret waiting list. We are going to do everything we can to address these allegations and concerns and if the office of the inspector general does find anything, we will take appropriate and swift action.


PERINO: But, Greg, the allegations and concern are coming too late for 40 veterans. That's not an anomaly. That's not like two people. This is 40 people.

So, do you think this is a systemic problem across the V.A.?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I rarely hear good things about the V.A. The difference between V.A. and ObamaCare is that these guys they earned -- they paid for their care. It should be the best care anyone gets and it's where our tax dollars should be going. Not to pajama boy.

But these guys who put their lives on the line and they are being treated horribly and not just -- not just this case in particular, but also when you hear about the number of suicides every day of veterans, that's where our money should be going. These guys showed up for our country.
Our country has to show up for them and this is disgraceful.

Keeping separate books, it's like the world's worst pawnshop. This is a hospital.

PERINO: And military people are -- by nature, they are patient, OK?



PERINO: They are waiting and they are respectful and, Kimberly, do you think that maybe we've not done a good enough service by them by allowing them to languish in these systems that simply do not meet our standards.

GUILFOYLE: Well, this story is testament to the fact that this has been an abysmal failure. I mean, I'm embarrassed as an American that this is happening. The veterans people who have done so much with so very little and are asking virtually nothing in return, we let them die because there's some kind of bizarre secret waiting list? I mean, who are these people?

They better have a major investigation and people better be fired.
There has to be accountability. We must do better. This isn't something that they should have hearings about, to just show we're taking this seriously. There actually needs to be specific action, complete reform.

And I do forecast that this could be a big problem for the Democrats -
- sorry, Bob -- realistically speaking, in states that have strong military personnel residing in them, like Virginia and others.

PERINO: This is one of those issues that I think Republicans and Democrats can agree on that it is outrageous. Interestingly, I agree on the full investigation but I'm concerned about the timing because actually there are lives on the line, and they have had warning.

Listen to this from Nick Tolentino. He's a former mental health administrator officer in Veterans Affairs and he warned Congress about it two years ago today. Listen.


NICHOLAS TOLENTINO, FORMER VA MENTAL HEALTH ADMINISTRATOR: Like many V.A. medical centers, the overall objective at our facility, from top management on down, to meet our numbers --, meaning, to meet our performance measures. The goal was to see as many veterans as possible but not necessarily provide them the treatment they needed. Performance measures are well-intended but they are linked to executive pay and bonuses, and as a result, create incentive to find loopholes that allow the facilities meet their numbers without actually providing services. Far too often, a party is to meet a measure rather than meet the needs of the veterans.


PERINO: Bob, do think that that testimony just went in one ear and out the other in Congress and nobody followed up.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, you know, this goes back to -- remember the movie "Born on the 4th of July"?


BECKEL: That was actually an expose on how bad the Veterans Administrations is. They've been having hearings on this, which is why it's not a Democratic or Republican problem. This has gone back for decades now. There are 500,000 veterans still waiting to qualify for V.A.
benefits, which is terrible.

This guy -- and whenever you hook a bonus performance up for -- particularly in government, then they are going to figure out a way to get around it so they can get their performance. I would do away with that right away. The idea that somehow you get bonuses because you service people that you should be servicing anyway and it gives you an opportunity to bury it.

And now, it's coming out to haunt. I think it will change. I really do.

I think this is probably the most egregious in all of it.

PERINO: Jesse, in the past decade, taxpayers have increased the payments to Veterans Affairs by tens of billions of dollars and it is now the second largest federal department after the Department of Defense.
Obviously, more money has not resulted in better outcomes.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: No, you can't blame the sequester for any of this. You can't blame the Republicans for any of this. Big government here is literally killing people, OK?

We thought there were death panels with ObamaCare. There's death panels right now in the V.A., and people in this V.A. are getting bonuses for letting veterans die. How sick and perverse is that? I mean, this woman Helman who is in charge down there, she's making about $170,000 a year and she's getting a $10,000 bonus, and 40 veterans are dead on her watch.

I think it's negligent homicide. I don't know what you would --

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: It is, really. I mean, when you are standing there allowing people to die because you are worried about making your numbers, it's disgusting behavior. There should be -- I would love to be part of a team that's going to put forward a criminal investigation for this kind of egregious conduct --

BECKEL: You know --

GUILFOYLE: Conscious disregard of a known risk of death.

BECKEL: The doctors -- this was I've run across -- the doctors in these V.A. hospitals and nurses are very, very good. It's the straight administrative side that's terrible.

I mean, these guys do -- I'm glad to see a doctor did this, you know, sold the story. The other thing that I find amazing to me is that post traumatic stress disorder problems are rampant and yet they don't seem to be budging enough to deal with that.

PERINO: The other problem is, Greg, the big government one, which is that, apparently, Helman was -- who's now in Phoenix, was actually in Spokane, Washington. There was a concern there and allegation about fudging numbers about veteran suicide. She was not fired, she was moved.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's -- you never get fired from government. There's just no metrics for success, they just move you somewhere else. That never happens in TV.



BECKEL: That happens in the IRS. The guys get figured, they move --

PERINO: They just move on.

GUTFELD: Yes, but I go back to -- this is a deal that you fight and we take care of you, and this is a deal that we're letting them down. As a rule, I'm against cutting in line, but if you are a veteran, you've earned a lifetime pass to board first anywhere and this is an area where it matters most.

PERINO: Yes, this is -- the airline shouldn't pat themselves on the back when they allow that.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, it's like this is an opportunity to do our very best, to show what kind of country are and what our values are. You know, how strong --

PERINO: And to speak for them.

GUILFOYLE: And this is a great opportunity for the Obama administration in all honesty to really show leadership, efficiency, given the urgency of people's lives on the line. But that's --

BECKEL: Nobody planned for clearly an increase in veterans coming out of two wars.

PERINO: But these are -- the veterans that we first talk about here, he was 71 years old. There are some veterans, the older population.

WATTERS: President Obama did promise in 2009 and again 2010 that he was going to take care of this problem there. Shinseki, or whatever his name, in charge over there. I mean, he's the only person in the cabinet that's performed worst than Kathleen Sebelius.

BECKEL: Every administration talks about this, everyone I can remember.

PERINO: I think Veterans Affairs actually has one of the biggest problems is that Veterans Affairs and the Department Defense, somehow, they don't speak the same language and they don't coordinate well.

Here's Colonel Oliver North about Shinseki.


LT. COL. OLIVER NORTH: This is unconscionable. This has been going on in the VA throughout this entire war. General Shinseki, who served in the United States Army, ought to resign, because his soldiers who have served nobly, and are now in the care of the Veterans Administration, are not getting the care they deserve and need.


PERINO: Now, General Shinseki is a veteran himself and serves ably.

Do you think, Bob, that he has just inherited a big government situation that he couldn't himself fix?

BECKEL: Well, everybody can say that. They inherited a big government mess. And there are things that can be fixed. And it seems to me, if you prioritize it, is getting veterans taken care of it right away.

Forget about the administrator side of it, forget about (INAUDIBLE), get the people that need the help now. And don't -- and do away with this bonus idea. A bonus to keep somebody alive? I mean, it's a sick thought.

PERINO: Here's another thing I think that is a little bit outrageous and, Jesse, I was going to ask you about this because you are known for going and pushing people to respond to the media.

BECKEL: Really?


PERINO: Veterans Affairs has been stalling on press requests and FOIA requests, and they won't talk about this problem. If you were in Washington, how would you get them to talk?

WATTERS: I mean, I would be camped outside the V.A. from 6:00 a.m. to
10:00 p.m. every night, just to get answers, because that's how you do it.
You got to embarrass these guys.

I think the president was embarrassed one time he was asked about this in a live interview. He was unprepared. He said he was going to do everything in his power to fix this problem. It's just another broken promise.

And the other sick thing is here, if you're an illegal immigrant in Arizona and you get to sick, you can go to the E.R., get cleaned up in 24 hours and the taxpayers pick up the bill. But if you are a soldier who sacrificed and served his country, you have to wait for months and die possibly because you can't get an appointment?

BECKEL: You know, you are right about embarrassment. The big scandal around Walter Reed, do you remember that? They did a whole series of stories about, I think, "The Washington Post." And finally, the close it down and they're building a new Walter Reed, because the stories were just so outrageous, because of the press.

And that's another thing here -- the press has a responsibility, it seems to me, to bring this story forward.

PERINO: Well, "The Washington Free Beacon" has been pushing on this issue of the press stalling and they still can't get answers but now maybe that will change.

I do want to mention one thing about just the culture of the military, Greg, and ask you to comment on this. The first veteran that we talked about that died, one of things that his daughter-in-law said is that he would not go anywhere but a veterans hospital because he thought that was the loyal thing to do.


PERINO: I'm just wondering about the -- you write about in "Not Cool," about the military and how they are better than most of us in just about everything.

GUTFELD: Yes, anybody who has ever worked with a veteran knows that they are always the first one in the office and the last person to leave.
The over -- what I say in the book is the overall appreciation of military service, I think, has waned. Especially -- and I know you are going to hate me for saying this, Bob -- on the campus, we have put identity before sacrifice and duty.

The country is no longer us. It's me. Exceptionalism is now -- because it's the root of all evil. Who protects that root? Well, it's the military. So, you have the ROTC being kicked off campuses. You have professors condemning people from making care packages to troops. Remember that story.

So, now, it's about division and not about divisions. It's about pigment and not patriotism. So, I don't think it's a surprise. But I don't think a lot of young people even know what a V.A. hospital is. They might think it's a hospital in Virginia.

BECKEL: But the culture thing is important. These people are taught to shop in the PX, right? They get their medical, their drugs and stuff on base. They get housing generally on base. And so, it's not surprising, they figure that's what we're supposed to do. We got to the V.A. hospital.

PERINO: But maybe the way to disrupt this is to -- have the private sector -- have some sort of a voucher system, because let's say you're from rural Kansas, and you join the military and you go back, you want to live in your hometown. There's not necessarily a V.A. facility nearby. But could there be a way to exchange --

GUTFELD: Yes, it's a good idea.

PERINO: -- there should be some innovate way to fix this problem.

WATTERS: There's still using paper records at the V.A. They have not even computerized yet. So, I think they have a long way to go.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but it should be -- yes, it should be I think a top priority and I hope that this kind of coverage that we're doing here is going to be an answer and a solution for this really intractable problem.
They deserve better and you know what? They shouldn't be punished, because they follow the rules and they don't try and cut the line and go to the local emergency room and just show up and demand to be treated. They are going -- these are law abiding, and they serve their country and they're following the chain of command.

PERINO: Well, and I would imagine that most -- the good doctors and nurses and all the attendants that take care of the veterans are probably horribly embarrassed by this. So, the administrators in government owe them --

GUILFOYLE: They want it to change, too.

BECKEL: Don't suggest that the illegal immigrants who happened to go, they're all people that --

GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that, Bob.

BECKEL: You did, too.

GUILFOYLE: No, I didn't say that.

BECKEL: Oh, yes, you did.

GUILFOYLE: What I'm saying is -- the point was made they could go into a hospital because we don't turn away people away in this country.
That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm proud of what we do here. I'm saying that they're going where they're supposed to going. I'm not saying that illegal immigrants are trying to circumvent the system. They are going because they need medical care and attention to and they have a right to it.



PERINO: Are you going to kiss? Oh, my God! Oh, my God!

All right. Next on "The Five," can Dr. Phil help President Obama and Putin work out their problems? He tried to last night, sort of. We're going to show you how that went.

BECKEL: God, how awkward is that.


GUILFOYLE: Well, we can be heading toward a new cold war and since President Obama can't seem to defuse the situation with Russia, Jimmy Fallon decided to tap Dr. Phil for some help.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm the one that's always reaching out. You know, I call and he didn't pick up. I sent a text and three days later, I got a text back that says, sorry, I just got this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you know I'm spying on you. I know you read it three days ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you're smothering me, OK? I go to sleep, I wake up with 20 text messages from this guy. It's like I'm a teenage girl.
He's James Franco.


GUILFOYLE: The comedy doesn't stop there.

Now, you remember when Putin answered this question last week?


QUESTION: Would Obama save you if you were drowning?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT: I think Obama is a courageous and good person. For sure, he would save me.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, President Obama also answered that question today.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I absolutely would save Mr. Putin if he were drowning. I would like to think that if anybody is out there drowning, I'm going to save them. I used to be a pretty good swimmer. I grew up in Hawaii.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, unfortunately, what's happening right now in Ukraine isn't a joke but our foreign policy seemed to be sounding like one. Doesn't our president have more important questions to answer than whether he would save a drowning Putin, Greg?

GUTFELD: Well, that's pretty funny. However, what do we do at this point?

So, I came up with a strategy. We have to play to our strengths. So, we got to realize finally that elections have consequences. We have a cool president but this is what you get when you pit Ferris Bueller against Dr.

Two, we've got to drill, frack, and export. The world should be depending on us and not Putin. That will hurt him.

And then you got to magnify, instead of marginalize our military.
We're scaling back now. We shouldn't be scaling back. We should be enlarging and will send a message to Putin.

And just for fun, let's go in there and pick up Snowden, just in the middle of the night, let Putin wake up one day and find Snowden, his patsy, missing. Wouldn't that be great?


PERINO: Yes. This is what I love about the Fallon piece -- in America, we are able to laugh about things. It's one of ways that we deal with the problems at that we have, and so we can actually make fun of our politicians and your head is not going to be chopped off. That's not necessarily true anywhere else in the world, including in Russia, where they have very few press freedoms, and they absolutely have no sense of humor, if you haven't noticed.

GUTFELD: Wait a second. My wife is going to be mad at your for saying that.

PERINO: She's an exception. She's lived in America. She's the opposite of Snowden.

GUTFELD: She married me.

PERINO: That's right. And that was her (ph) joke.

GUTFELD: That's exactly. How dare you?

BECKEL: She could have done better, couldn't she?

PERINO: Now you are making me feel sorry for Greg.

GUTFELD: This is turning into a war on me? Let's get back at Putin.

GUILFOYLE: And it's over. Get back to Putin immediately. Roll the shots of him with his shirt off. Those are always good.

WATTERS: How late night really just turned against the president. I remember when he was first inaugurated, you couldn't make fun of the guy.
You know, he was the messiah, he was perfect. There was nothing to make fun of.

And then, all of a sudden, he was the cool, calm, intellectual Obama in all these skits. Now, this guy is stumbling, juvenile imbecile that's stammering, you know, he doesn't know what he's doing. I don't know what happened.

BECKEL: It's called under 40 percent in the polls.

PERINO: Well, not only that, but, Bob -- to that point, late night is leading a change, perhaps. I don't think it will last that long. They'll figure out a way to come back to him.

But front page of "The New York Times," the headline is Obama suffers setbacks in Japan and the Middle East, in "The New York Times," I'm reading the paper. So, going into your last two years of your term, with the midterm that's going to be very tough for the president, it is interesting how the media starts -- it's like herding cattle.

GUILFOYLE: How do you fix this, Bob?

GUTFELD: Bob, just to make a point. I would mildly disagree with you, Jesse, on the nature of the comedy is about the context. It's like they're not making fun of Obama, but the Obama-Putin relationship. So, that -- they can say, yes, it's a critical joke. But they're still --

WATTERS: They are still in his pocket, don't get me wrong.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WATTERS: OK. But there's a wind factor which is beginning to emerge here, and I do see that. But like you were saying, the headlines that are coming out of Obama's trip to Japan, this guy, he bounced to a robot. That is $300 sushi. This guy --


PERINO: I totally disagree. I actually thought the president had a very good trip to Japan.


PERINO: Well, I thought -- look, the robot thing, we were like laughing. That was charming. It was cute. Look at the picture on the front page of "The New York Times." Again, that's about the imagery. It's lovely and I thought he did a good job.

GUTFELD: (INAUDIBLE) robot's wife.

WATTERS: Yes, I would disagree. I mean, he didn't sign the trade deal. They almost tested a nuke in North Korea when he was there. The Mideast peace process blows up while he's --

PERINO: Well, I said he had a good trip to Japan.


BECKEL: The reason he didn't sign the trade deal, he held out firmly for America's side of this things and he just refused to buck on it, one.

Listen, foreign policy in the aftermath of the Cold War, it was very definable in the Cold War. You were with either the Ruskies or you were with us.

Now, once the Cold War ended and all these breakaway countries brought out thousands of years of animosity, in the Caucasus, all through in -- Middle East is a situation nobody has been able to do much about it. But you can't blame Obama for not having the kind of very clearly defined lines that the Cold War gave us.

PERINO: Oh, no, no, you can. I actually think you can. There was a very clear line after 9/11 and it was one that the media made fun of, but it was President Bush's you are either with us or you're against us.

BECKEL: That was on --

PERINO: Also, I think it goes back to the red line Syria problem that the president created for himself.

GUTFELD: But you're point about --

GUILFOYLE: Nice come back.

GUTFELD: -- post-9/11 we had common ground with Russia. They aren't terrorists, we aren't terrorists. We all have terrorists. So, let's all deal with that together. And we've somehow lost that common ground. We've neglected that ground.

BECKEL: Terrorism is not the only foreign policy we have to deal with.

GUTFELD: You are absolutely right. But it's at least a start, where you can meet together and go -- these guys are a bigger problem than what we have, so maybe we should work together. We can't have a war with Russia because I go home every night.

BECKEL: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my goodness.

GUTFELD: It's going to be awkward.


BECKEL: You think of the crap you're going to get with now,
(INAUDIBLE) we have war.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bob.

Next, another popular singer faces racism accusations. This time, Avril Levine is being forced to defend her new Hello Kitty video film in Japan. Greg is going to take on the PC police on that. It's next. And Bob discovers who is Hello Kitty.


SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: There is breaking news on the FOX News Channel. I'm Shepard Smith on the FOX News deck.

We've gotten word from an attorney for Republican Congressman Michael Grimm of New York, that the U.S. attorney in New York will file charge against the Congressman.

Grimm had reportedly been under investigation for allegations of campaign finance violation. Here's some of his statement from Grimm's attorney, and I'm quote, "Congressman Grimm asserts his innocence of any wrongdoing. When the dust settles, he will be vindicated."

You may remember this Congressman as the one who threatened to throw a New York One television reporter off a balcony in a confrontation here when that reporter asked him about this very investigation. And there that reporter is from New York One. He did not get thrown off the balcony. The Congressman later apologized.

Now we know, according to his attorney, he will be indicted in connection to a campaign finance probe.

I'm Shepard Smith on the FOX News desk. Now back to "The Five."

GUTFELD: In case you missed it, and you're lucky if you did, Avril Lavigne released a video of her new single, "Hello Kitty." If you have ears, I would remove them now.




GUTFELD: Absolutely. Well, that was the opposite of pleasant. It's to your hearing what E. Coli is to your intestines.

But critics aren't just calling it bad; it's racist, too. The backup singers, especially, who are expressionless and identical. Which reminds me of this.




GUTFELD: They also look alike without expression. But that's not racist; it's cool. And that's what Lavigne, I guess, was going for, the detached robotics we've come to accept as edgy. Creepy, maybe. But racist, no.

This outrage reflects a new accusation called appropriation, when you mimic other cultures. If you dress like a cowboy on Halloween, that's OK, but a geisha, that's bad. Which is why I no longer trick-or-treat.

Look, you can hate the video for being awful, but Lavigne is huge in Japan and, as far as I know, no one's complained there. It's just our media. But more important, everything in life is appropriation. If critics think that's racist, then so is all of rock and roll, since it came from the blues, which is part of black culture.

The fact is, media's gotten so used to calling all things racist that it drowns out the real racism. And if we've learned anything this week, there's still some of that going around.

Bob, you are a huge Avril Lavigne fan.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: So I got to you. The song, the singers, the backup singers, they look a little creepy. But because they don't have an expression. But does that that make it racist?

BECKEL: I don't get it. First of all, I never have heard of this person.

PERINO: Bob is a huge...

BECKEL: Look at it. I mean, that's entertainment? But, look, if you wanted to add a bunch of kamikazes, doing Japanese flights into the decks of U.S. aircraft carriers, I mean, that would be one thing. By you've got four broads who are sitting back here...

GUILFOYLE: Four broads.

GUTFELD: He is right, though. That would be one thing. That would be one thing.

Dana, she responded, Avril, with some tweets; how everybody responds these days. "Racist? LOLOLOL." Don't know what that means. She goes, "I love Japanese culture. I spend half my time in Japan. I flew to Tokyo to shoot this video." And with her Japanese label, choreographers, a Japanese director.

So is this all much ado about nothing?

PERINO: Yes, it is. I would actually have a new name for the song.


PERINO: "Good-bye, Kitty." You like it?

I planned to use it, because I thought you were going to come to me first, and it would have been funnier then. Anyway...

GUILFOYLE: Now, you've done it. You've destroyed the order of the show.

PERINO: So I don't really know. What was I going to say?

GUTFELD: I have no idea at this point.

PERINO: I don't either. I had a really good point, but then I messed it up by my stupid joke.

BECKEL: You said, "Good-bye, Kitty," which is appropriate.

WATTERS: Here -- we looked at the lyrics. And if you look at the lyrics here, the real offensive part about this is the lyrics. It's about a sleepover party. And the girl's mom's not home. And it's "Come, come, kitty. Stay with me, play with me."

PERINO: OK, well, you'll...

WATTERS: OK? That's offensive. OK? That's offensive to me. I don't know about...

GUILFOYLE: You just blew yourself up.

PERINO: I think I need a cold shower!

BECKEL: I wish I had been invited. It sounds like a pretty good party.

GUTFELD: Oh, my God.

GUILFOYLE: Now, Bob is interested in the segment.

Let's go to someone who knows about geishas, Japanese food, Hello Kitty and sleepovers.

PERINO: And sleepovers.

GUTFELD: The video has a lot of references to what's called kawaii culture, which is all kind of cute things, like Hello Kitty.

GUILFOYLE: Everything that's little, like you and Dana.

GUTFELD: Actually, what you're saying is Dana and I should be offended, because we're cute.

GUILFOYLE: No, but you could be in the video.

PERINO: Well, do they pay?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm sure.

PERINO: Because I would imagine -- I actually liked it. The people who are calling her racist actually probably want a more one-world culture.
They want, like, multiculturalism. What she's doing is breaking the barrier for other artists to be able to go there.

BECKEL: I think she's -- I think she's a fine artist myself.

WATTERS: I'm sure you do. You know who called this racist? Two white entertainment reporters. Two white males. There's no Japanese people even offended.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? They don't even get it. Hello, who's being offensive? The Japanese? They're the ones that produced the video, wrote it, directed it.

BECKEL: Nobody stands up for us. They always pick on those other people. The white males don't get it.


GUILFOYLE: Here we go. Poor Bob. Play my little Hello Kitty violin for Bobby.

GUTFELD: All right. I think we're going to run away now.

GUILFOYLE: Bye-bye, kitty.

GUTFELD: Glad I did that story today. It was either that or E-6.

All right. There's a new Marxist manifesto out. And if that isn't scary enough, it's in high demand. Jesse has the Cliff Notes coming up.


WATTERS: A book advocating for a global economy where the rich are taxed at 80 percent has somehow found its way to the New York Times best- seller list and has reached No. 1 on Amazon. The book's author, French economist Thomas Piketty, says he's pursuing the economic tradition of -- drum roll please -- Karl Marx. And as you might imagine, Rush Limbaugh is no fan of the book's socialist thesis and reacted yesterday.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Some French socialist, Marxist, communist economist has published a book, and the left in this country is having orgasms on it. It's the No. 1 book on Amazon.

It's the most outrageous set of assumptions. This guy is suggesting an 80 percent tax rate on incomes over $500,000 a year. Not to raise revenue for the government, but to eliminate those incomes. This guy's objective is to simply wipe out the wealthy.


WATTERS: So Bob, I'm going to start with you, obviously, here, this French Marxist intellectual selling his book for a profit, I might add.
What do you think the top rate should be for income? This guy says 80 percent for 500K. What do you -- where is Bob's top rate? Where do you feel comfortable?

BECKEL: Well, ask my last contract with chainsub (ph). But let me just say this. This is a breakthrough moment on the "The Five," Jess. Not just because you're here. But because we're using Rush Limbaugh in a -- in one of his diatribes. We do this six times a week, and we're only five days a week.

WATTERS: And that's why you guys are so successful.

BECKEL: Right, no.

WATTERS: Answer the question, Bob. What's the top rate?

BECKEL: I think top rate is about right where it is now, 39 percent.

WATTERS: OK. So 80 is too much for you?

BECKEL: Yes, it's too much for me. But I think -- I think Karl Marx, who had some brilliant ideas, political collectivism. And the point that he's making here is that income inequality is the worst it's ever been in the history of the universe.

GUTFELD: The history of the universe. We live in great times, my friend. The world has never been better.

BECKEL: You're the one who says it's horrible because of Obama.

GUTFELD: No, well, that's true. Got me there.

No. 1 on Amazon. What's No. 2? "Fun with Cyanide"? I mean, how can dumb ideas become so popular? I call it misery amnesia. That's what left- wingers have, misery amnesia. They embrace ideas that have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people.

These are -- these are policies that destroy economies and reduce people into eating themselves alive. If you've ever read about the Ukraine, Bob, you would know.

BECKEL: I have read about the Ukraine. I know exactly what you're talking about.

GUTFELD: That's collectivism.

WATTERS: Kimberly -- Kimberly, let me ask you a question. This is a very popular book...

GUILFOYLE: You want me to rain some common sense on this table right now?

WATTERS: Yes, please. This is a very popular book among the left.


WATTERS: Krugman's praising it. The treasury secretary in the Obama administration is consulting with this guy. Is the left just admitting they're this radical, and they're just saying, you know, we're this cocky.
Bring it on. This is who we are.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Because they think they're that cool. They're that awesome and unique and interesting, and they have a better idea about the whole world than anybody else. And if they were just listened to, things would just work out amazing. And there would be no upper class, right? I mean, that's what they want.

And the problem is this guy's theories aren't even based on actual proper statistics when you look at it. The Cornell study, median household incomes, properly measure, it says, rose 36.7 percent between '79 to 2007, not that 3.2 percent that he's saying.

So this whole book is actually based on economic lies. It's a fraud.

WATTERS: The author also says he's going to take this revenue from all these taxes, he's not going to invest it in education. He just wants to wipe out the rich. Isn't that just a political ploy that the left does about incoming plot? Isn't that the distraction because their policies have failed?

PERINO: Well, I've read a lot about this in the past week, because trolling through all the sites, and you find things like, oh, there's this book. And then you read another thing and another thing. And initially all of it was praise. So the PR people at the publishing house did a really good job initially.

But what's happened since has a systemic takedown of the book. And I think "The Wall Street Journal," Shulman's review of the book is very good.

And then today, I really love Kevin Williamson of "National Review."
He writes, "Welcome to the paradise of the real." If you want to
understand this book and -- just the fantasy versus realism, print out Kevin Williamson's piece and make everybody in your household do a book report on Sunday night.

BECKEL: Also, take the chance to read about Karl Marx. He's one of the great economists this world has known. And...

WATTERS: You heard it here first. Karl Marx is the greatest economist.

BECKEL: One of the greatest economists.

WATTERS: Bob Beckel, everybody. We're got to go.

Can you guess who the speaker of the House is impersonating?


"Oh, don't make me do this! Oh, this is too hard."


WATTERS: Here's a hint. It's not a Democrat. Bob has the answer coming up.


BECKEL: That was "Cool Winter," the song.

I've got -- I've got to give it to John Boehner. He knows how to do impressions. He just did one that was spot on, on the Republican Caucus.
And let me just -- watch this. It was on immigration reform and Boehner has the Republicans down exactly right.


BOEHNER: I don't know whether we're going to get to it this year or not. I think we should, but the appetite -- the appetite amongst my colleagues for doing this is not real good. And this guy is back here with a camera, but here's the attitude.

"Oh, don't make me do this. Oh, this is too hard."

You should hear them.


BECKEL: John has got it exactly right. It sounds like every Republican on Capitol Hill I know, and he does a terrific job and he's right. They refuse to take immigration reform seriously. He and a few other brave Republicans are willing to do it.

WATTERS: I don't think John Boehner should make any fun of anybody for crying. The guy cries all the time.

But I understand the Republicans predicament. Why would they want to cut a deal with President Obama? If they don't think that Obama is going to hold up his end of the bargain? If they do a pathway to citizenship and a border enforcement, he's going to not enforce the border.

BECKEL: When was the last time a Republican (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on anything?

WATTERS: Listen, his president flouts Congress all the time. He does end runs. And then he denigrates their motives for wanting to secure the border. I don't trust...

BECKEL: Everybody knows we need immigration reform, and the Republicans are cowards.

WATTERS: Why didn't you guys do it when you had the House and Senate the first year?

BECKEL: We tried to do it.

WATTERS: No, you didn't.

BECKEL: Yes, we did.

WATTERS: You had both chambers.


BECKEL: Harry Reid did not work it out right.

GUILFOYLE: Throw Harry Reid under the bus.

PERINO: You're too busy ruining the economy with ObamaCare.

BECKEL: Oh, I see.

PERINO: That's why.

BECKEL: Excuse me, El Busho alumni.

GUILFOYLE: What did you call him?

BECKEL: El Busho. Do you know anything about how the financial crisis actually happened?

BECKEL: Yes. I know one thing: it happened on your guy's watch.
That's all I can say.

WATTERS: I think it was more Marxist. Marx did it, right? Favorite economist.

BECKEL: I don't blame Bush for all that. It was bankers.

GUILFOYLE: I think Boehner is funny. I liked him, and I think that was weird that Bob gave him kudos, and Jesse didn't. But it reflects that the Republicans are not some monolithic like-minded beast. There's a lot of infighting going on, and liberals enjoy seeing it.

But here isn't anybody on the left -- I don't think there's anybody on the left who's against amnesty, which is really strange because the left, they claim to be for the working class, and if amnesty happened, you're going to flood the workforce with cheap labor, which is going to bring down the wages. You would think there would be a peep from the workers.

BECKEL: You know, the unions, a lot of unions are opposed. But I'll tell you, I'm willing to make a prediction, there will be an immigration reform in the lame duck session of the Congress. There's so many people retiring who may be willing to pass a bill. And it happens in a lame duck session.

WATTERS: And your predictions are always right? Right?

BECKEL: Pretty much, yes.

GUTFELD: They're always add the time on the Marx.

GUILFOYLE: You are just so clever.

WATTERS: Really?

BECKEL: I've got to do the tease. "One More Thing" is up next with Milli Vanilli.

GUILFOYLE: Milli Vanilli?


PERINO: It's time new for "One More Thing," and because I'm feeling so generous today, Bob, you get to go first.

BECKEL: Thank you very much. My good friend Wayne La Pierre, who's, by the way -- one day I accused him of being Canadian and they rebuked me for it. I'm sorry, I guess. But I'm still waiting for the birth certificate. Wayne, if you'd just give it to me, it would be very helpful.

Now Wayne at the annual meeting of the National Rifle Association, said the country's on edge like he's never seen it before. And it ought to be put in the hands of people like you, he's saying to the NRA delegate.
Throughout the country, they're going to have to put up things, engage this fight every single day, whatever it is. I'm not going to back down." I'm going to do it, because I've got a gun and I can shoot people.

You know, Wayne, I think maybe you ought to just tone it down a little bit. And could you please send me the birth certificate? I really need to see it.

PERINO: You think Wayne La Pierre should tone it down.

BECKEL: Tone it down, and you know, I don't like foreigners running organizations.

GUTFELD: Those damn foreigners.

PERINO: Greg, you get to go next.

GUTFELD: I believe he said "fur-ners" this time.

Just as a reminder I'm on "Huckabee" tomorrow, the show, 8 a.m. Yes.
I think I still am on "Huckabee."

And banned phrase. What the heck.

"Who's to say?" I hate "who's to say?" When something horrible happens, and you go, "That's terrible to say -- who's to say what's wrong and wrong." I do and so do you. You can say what's right or wrong. Who's to say, that's for losers.

GUILFOYLE: That was empowering.

GUTFELD: Well, thank you.

PERINO: Kimberly is next.

GUTFELD: OK. So today, we want to talk about something very incredible that's going to happen at the Vatican on Sunday, and we're going to have a joint canonization of two former popes. Of course, Pope John Paul and John the XXIII.

Also it's very interesting. IN the audience you will have Pope Emeritus Benedict is going to be there, Benedict XVI. And also Pope Francis will be in attendance. So I think it's going to be a very special day for Catholics worldwide.

BLITZER: John Paul got a bad rap on that hat.

PERINO: Good observation, Bob. Good observation.

Jesse, you're next.

WATTERS: So I've been called a lot of things over the years, had a lot of nicknames, a lot of them that I can't say on TV. Here's a new one.
I'm a little worried about it.


BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Did you see the "Watters World" in Denver on the pot festival over the weekend? I mean, that was...

DENNIS MILLER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I've got some jokes about it, if it's permissible.

O'REILLY: Yes, it is. Go.

MILLER: Well, look at Jesse in the first place with a pink upturned collar. What is he, like a gay Dracula coming down on these people?


WATTERS: Not that there's anything wrong with that. Right, Gutfeld?

BECKEL: Do you have any shirt the size of that pink thing? Every time you're on TV you got that one shirt.

WATTERS: Sorry. My collar was a little high.

PERINO: It's his signature, because he asked O'Reilly if it made him look good. O'Reilly said keep it popped up.

WATTERS: He said it's my trademark; got to keep it popped.

GUTFELD: The reason why: he has that third nipple on his neck.

PERINO: And I can attest to that.

GUTFELD: Really?

PERINO: I saw it earlier.

BECKEL: Dana, you came a long way, baby.

PERINO: OK. I got to go something very cool today. It was the Tribeca Disruptive Innovation awards. I had no idea what I was in for.
Great show. I did a panel on capitalism. I thought it was great. The pope got the biggest award, but I also love Adam Braun, Pencils of Promise.
Check him out. Also, I loved Debbie Kroling (ph) of Goldie Locks (ph), which I'm going to explain to Bob here in a second.

BECKEL: I want you to explain what the whole damn thing is.

PERINO: That's two days in a row you haven't been paying attention to me.

Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." We'll see you back here on Monday. Bob will paying attention to me then.

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