Brothers of American killed in Kenya terror attack speak out

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Brothers of American killed in Kenya terror attack speak out

21 killed in Kenya terror attack, including American Jason Spindler; Aaron and Jonathan Spindler set up a GoFundMe in memory of their brother.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," January 17, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: They deserve a little treat. That was good. Thank you, Bret. All right, everybody. Breaking tonight, no more cushy shutdown for those at the top.

Good evening, everybody. I’m Martha MacCallum. You knew the silence from the president would not last forever, right? For 24 hours, the clock ticked in no response from the President to Nancy Pelosi suggestion for what he could do with his State of the Union address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF., SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: He can make it from the Oval Office if he wants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But today, he came up with a positively Grinch Stole Christmas- like plan. Stop the buses, cancel the flights. Just as the Congressional CoDel bus was heading for the airport, he stole the trip right out from under them. With this definitively Trumpian counter-puncher letter. "I am sure you would agree that postponing this public relations event is totally appropriate. It would be better if you were in Washington negotiating with me." He added, "If you would like to make your journey by a flying commercial, that would certainly be your prerogative."

Former White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer joins me now. Sean, good evening to you. Your thoughts on what transpired this afternoon, and whether or not you think this move by the president was skillful.

SEAN SPICER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, look, I mean if there’s anybody who’s had a counterpunch as President Trump, I, after two years of watching him operate, I’m not really sure what the Democrats thought they were getting into by pulling a stunt like they did.

Look, I, the -- with State of the Union is a time-honored tradition, it’s required by Article II, Section 3 of our Constitution. The first one was delivered by our first commander or chief George Washington in 1790.

And for the Speaker of the House to unanimously pull back that invitation and falsely cite security reasons that were not true. Really tells you about where this game started. She has been absent from being part of real discussions, she has said she’s not going to give one penny and not moved off for that. That’s not a negotiation, and she took what was a legitimate disagreement on policy and made it both personal, petty, and irresponsible by canceling his invitation to the State of the Union.

Which is frankly what we should be hearing right now. The job of the commander in chief is laid forth in our Constitution is to come forward and provide the Congress with information on the State of the Union as the Constitution says. And for her to cancel it --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, but as you know -- no, understood. But the Constitution says that it has to -- you know, that the president from time to time should deliver a State of the Union to the people.

SPICER: Yes.

MACCALLUM: He could do it handwritten, he could do it in a lot of -- a lot different forms. We all know what the traditional way of delivering it is, and the historical importance of that. But I’m thinking since we haven’t heard any response, and -- you know, put yourself back in the White House here for a moment because you know they’re putting their heads together trying to figure out something creative.

And I thought about this, this evening and I thought, perhaps, he could deliver the State of the Union at a rally. Deliver it directly. Directly to the people. What do you think?

SPICER: Now, look, look, I respect, respectfully, respectfully, I disagree. This is the State of the Union. I get that the venue doesn’t have to necessarily be the House. I think it should be in the Senate. I think that he should maintain the integrity of --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: And it will be in the Senate. Maybe it will be in the Oval Office. But the fact to the matter is that he’s been presented with a dilemma here where he has to figure out what he’s going to do.

(CROSSTALK)

SPICER: But here’s the point, Martha. Martha, look, for all of the hand wringing that journalists and folks on the left do about how the president conducts himself. The Speaker of the House unceremoniously and unanimously revoked an invitation that she had set forward.

That folks had put on their calendars to get ready to ensure that the president United States could fulfill his constitutional responsibility. If she was so concerned about this for security reasons which is what she stated, why didn’t she check with the Secret Service? Why didn’t she call the White House (INAUDIBLE) for president?

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: No, well, what -- I mean, Sean, we all know that she -- you know, with this is a game in many respects this.

(CROSSTALK)

SPICER: It’s a stunt. It’s not a game, it’s a stunt.

MACCALLUM: The political game, and it’s a stunt. And it shouldn’t be a game, and it shouldn’t be a stunt. And many will look at what the president did like Lindsey Graham, who as we know supports the president quite a bit.

SPICER: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Look at what he said about this. He thought on both sides of the fence, the President and Nancy Pelosi, were sophomoric. Can we put it? "One sophomoric response does not deserve another."

He felt that the CoDel should not have been canceled. That they were going to visit the troops in Afghanistan, and that, that was the wrong move by the president.

SPICER: Well, but at the end of the day we remember this. The only person that can negotiate a deal on this is Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump right now. And so for her to go anywhere, I appreciate the fact that she wants to be with our troops and thank them. And I believe that she means that and that that’s what all of our leaders regardless of party want to do is appreciate the folks who are on the front lines of fighting for our freedoms and keeping this world safe.

That’s a given. I would never question her patriotism on that front. However, the bottom line is that there’s plenty of time to do that. But right now, these are the Democrats who keep saying that we need to open this government, who have been hand wringing about all of the Americans, and the federal workers, and the contractors who truly are suffering through this.

MACCALLUM: That’s right.

SPICER: So if they mean that -- then you shouldn’t be leaving to go anywhere to do anything. If you care about the troops if you care about the men and women of the Coast Guard. If you care about the TSA workers. If you care about those contractors.

Frankly, and if you care about the Americans that utilize the services, there’s so many of those workers provide to all of Americans and you should be here.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, you know what, and the President just -- he just canceled the Davos trip, as well.

SPICER: Right.

MACCALLUM: You know, I think the message of overall -- of all of this is that it there does have to be pain at the top. That everybody has to be under the same rules. And that if it’s not uncomfortable for Nancy Pelosi, and maybe if it’s not uncomfortable for the president, as well, they’re not going to be pushed to come to some kind of agreement here, which is we all know is what -- every American watches this whole crazy process and goes, there’s a - there’s a deal that can be struck here.

Everybody seems to agree that you can make the wall stronger and you can make the southern border more secure.

(CROSSTALK)

SPICER: But, there think -- you’re right -- look --

MACCALLUM: Everyone out there knows it. The just can’t figure out what they can figure out.

(CROSSTALK)

SPICER: That -- you’re absolutely right. But the problem is -- the problem is that we have a policy disagreement, but a political problem. Nancy Pelosi and 54 Democrats voted in 2013 for $46 billion and fencing.

MACCALLUM: Yes. No, right now.

SPICER: This is not a policy disagreement. This is a political issue that they are using as a proxy for the 2020 fight. And that thousands of people that are running for president on the Democratic side.

MACCALLUM: That’s exactly right.

SPICER: Because they don’t want to give "Trump a win." But border security, humanitarian concerns, the flow of illegal drugs shouldn’t be a partisan issue.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Understood. Right, let me --

SPICER: The President is fighting for all Americans, not Republicans, not conservatives. He’s fighting for our country security.

MACCALLUM: Let me ask you a question. Put yourself back in the White House and answer the question.

SPICER: Please don’t.

MACCALLUM: What do you do -- I know (INAUDIBLE). Just for a moment. Don’t get -- don’t get pity as this.

SPICER: I decided to do it once.

MACCALLUM: It’s going to be OK. Just in your mind for a moment. If you are asked, what you’re thinking about the State of the Union? Let’s assume for a moment that the -- that the House option is off the table. What would be your recommendation?

SPICER: I -- number two, I’d go to the Senate.

MACCALLUM: OK.

SPICER: It’s a smaller venue. You’re going to have less of the heckling. You’ve got McConnell and Pence as the two people that are on the rostrum with the president. So, the optics are better. You’ve got a much more collegial and respectful audience. You maintain the integrity of delivering it to a joint address. And if that didn’t work, I would go to the Oval Office.

But there is something very, very dignified and special about the State of the Union. And I don’t think it should be diminished because Nancy Pelosi has chosen to play politics.

I think the President should call her bluff. Senator McConnell should invite the President to deliver it from the Senate.

MACCALLUM: Yes, let’s see what they do.

SPICER: And those members of the House that she has alienated will get to watch it on television like every other American. But don’t, don’t, don’t allow this political stunt to be paid off and benefit her.

MACCALLUM: OK. Yes. Sean, thank you. Good to see you. Thank you very much.

SPICER: you bet.

MACCALLUM: Here now, Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute scholar, and Fox News contributor. Amy Kremer, co-founder and chair of Women for Trump. And Richard Goodstein, Democratic strategist and former advisor to the Clinton presidential campaign. Good to have all of you with us.

MARC THIESSEN, CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be with you, Martha.

AMY KREMER, CO-FOUNDER, WOMEN FOR TRUMP: Good to be here.

MACCALLUM: So, we just heard from Sean Spicer. So, I’m going to go straight to Richard Goodstein, with your reaction here about what’s going on and what we saw it today.

RICHARD GOODSTEIN, FORMER ADVISER, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: Well, he referenced the Constitution several times. And to your credit, you pointed out that this does not have to be delivered in person in the House. I also say, he referenced this 2013 bill that every single Senate Democrat and 14 Republicans voted in favor of that had $46 billion, including $8 billion for a barrier, I would say if Donald Trump wants to call Nancy Pelosi is bluff, have Mitch McConnell, and you know, bring that bill up today or tomorrow. And let’s see where the votes are.

I believe that Nancy Pelosi would get the House to vote for that and that settles it. OK? This letter of his, you know, withdrawing the plane. He’s saying take commercial into a war zone, where we’ve now tipped off the people who are our enemies that the number two person behind me, (INAUDIBLE) is coming, et cetera, et cetera.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Nobody thinks that’s going to happen.

GOODSTEIN: I’m just saying, I just think -- and he’s also referred to it as a P.R. stunt. That’s what Donald Trump thinks of, visit to the truth is.

MACCALLUM: Yes, but let me ask you this. Isn’t it a P.R. stunt to suggest that the State of the Union can’t be done and that would that the -- that - - so that Secret Service and Homeland Security can’t protect the Congress? Isn’t that also the same?

GOODSTEIN: I would say that Nancy Pelosi, you know, we haven’t -- we’ve canvassed some but not every single agency, including Secret Service and so forth. Do I think there was some gamesmanship? Absolutely. Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: All right.

GOODSTEIN: He into that -- the president went abroad to Iraq during the shutdown. So the notion that somehow her being abroad. And it’s certainly, what find us is, he sends her the standing invitation. The last time that he was there, she left from the U.S.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Well, it is over the holidays, and where are the differentiation this whole game now? All right, let me -- let me get -- thanks to you, Richard. All right, Marc, go.

THIESSEN: Yes, so I mean it takes a lot of chutzpah for the Speaker of the House to send a letter to the president. Saying that because of the shutdown, we can’t provide security for you for the State of the Union address. But she can get -- again on a government plane, and have all the security in the world that she needs to go to Afghanistan.

I mean, you know, come on give me a break. So, you know, look, this was a -- this I -- but, I understand why the president did this, he’s a counter- puncher. But I agree with Lindsey Graham that it was counterproductive. Because the thing is this really pleases Donald Trump’s base.

I mean, me, and everybody else who wants the president to succeed were cheering this, but that’s we’re already with him. The people he needs to win over are people at persuadable people in the middle who are frustrated with the shutdown. And polls show, 71 percent of Americans want both sides to compromise and come up with a deal.

His job is to show that he’s the adult in the room, that he’s the one who’s staying in the Oval Office, doing his job.

MACCALLUM: He’s been doing that.

THIESSEN: Offering to negotiate, offering to compromise, while they are pulling political stunts. And instead, what he did was, he got down and did a political stunt as well. It’s counterproductive to what he’s trying to accomplish. Amy, what do you think?

KREMER: Well, I think that -- you know, they need to feel what at the top. And President Trump stayed at the White House, Nancy Pelosi jetted off to Hawaii. Now, you know, part of her delegation was in Puerto Rico for a fundraising trip. And now she was about to jet off in 30 minutes before they were to leave from the Capitol, they get a reroute.

That’s what we call it in the airline world. I’m a former flight attendant. It sounds a lot like Nancy wants to go jet around the world when she needs to get back to the capitol and do her job. Why is it that she can jet off during a government shutdown? The president stays there.

Then, she extends the invitation for the State of the Union. But now she wants to pull it back, it’s nothing but political stunts. The president is trying to deal with a real crisis that our nation is facing, Martha.

Women for Trump brought Angel Families to Washington this week that have lost family members to opioid abuse, they’ve lost family members to illegal crime, and we -- this is a situation that its lives are at stake on both sides of the border.

We don’t -- there is not a life that should be lost because our border is unsecured. So, let’s get back to the table and let’s deal with it, and fix it for all Americans. He’s putting America first and that’s exactly what he was hired to do.

MACCALLUM: All right. I want to switch gears here just for a moment. I want to play this video from Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez. There -- there’s just interesting juxtaposition, everybody who is getting attention these days is using the platform of Twitter and everything else to do it, and she seems to be mastering it for her party. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: The truth of this shutdown is that it’s actually not about a wall, it is not about the border, and it is certainly not about the well-being of everyday Americans. The truth is this shutdown is about the erosion of American democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Richard Goodstein, I actually thought we’re going to also show the one where she’s teaching new members of Congress how to be more successful on social media and Twitter, but that obviously is her on the floor. Richard, is she -- you know, is she an asset or a liability right now for your party, do you think?

GOODSTEIN: Well, it’s funny. The right hasn’t quite figured out how to try to knock her down to size. And there are people who are in the Democratic Party who are concerned that she’s dragging things a little too far left.

So far, she’s got all these followers, she’s figured out a way to connect with Millennials. She has harnessed social media in a way that maybe even Donald Trump hasn’t. And yet, she hasn’t really pulled policy, she talks a good game about the Green New Deal, and 70 percent tax and so forth. But she’s not yet moved the needle in terms of policy outcomes. So, I would say actually, she’s kind of a mixed back --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: But she’s very authentic, Richard. And she’s making it difficult to I think for some of these early candidates. And you know, you’ve got Kirsten Gillibrand and Elizabeth Warren, and you know, she’s sucking all the oxygen out of the room for these people, Richard.

GOODSTEIN: Well, and look, she’s getting attention from the T.V. networks, great. When they’re -- you know, we start having debates, when we start having real contests, there’s going to be plenty of oxygen given to every single candidate.

I don’t think that Elizabeth Warren is complaining about what AOC is doing in terms of grabbing the headlines right now. Look, you know, and again, she got 14,000 votes in her primary. Democrats got 23 million votes during the primaries.

You know, hats off to her for getting all this attention. But let’s keep in perspective what she does and doesn’t, you know, kind of control.

MACCALLUM: We will see. All right. Thank you all. Great having you here tonight.

THIESSEN: Thanks, Martha.

KREMER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next. President Trump’s major announcement on a missile defense strategy in outer space.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: We will recognize that space is a new warfighting domain with the space force leading the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Our exclusive tonight with the secretary of the army. We will also talk about the future in Syria. Coming up next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to get out, I want to bring our troops back home. I want to start rebuilding our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: You saw the President back there a few months ago saying that he wanted to pull our troops out of Syria and then he circled back and declared that he would do just that. Today he expressed his condolences for the brazen opportunistic ISIS attack yesterday that took the lives of four Americans in this wreckage, including two U.S. troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to take a moment to express my deepest condolences to the families of the brave American heroes who lay down their lives yesterday in selfless service to our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We now have the first statement from the military on the President’s new plan that has sparked great debate. Army Chief of Staff General Mark Milley spoke out on the new Syria plan yesterday saying this. "We are determined to finish that off and then hand the battle off to our indigenous partners." Here now in “The Story” exclusive is secretary of the Army Dr. Mark Esper. Sir, thank you very much for being here tonight. It’s good to have you with us. Can you --

MARK ESPER, SECRETARY, ARMY: Oh, thank you. Martha, thank you. It’s a pleasure being here.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much. Can you explain what General Milley meant by handing it off to the indigenous forces?

ESPER: Well, first let me just say as you noted in your tee up there that we did lose four brave Americans this week. It is a reminder that the world remains a dangerous place and I and the United States Army just respect their service and mourn for their families. So with regard to the Chief of Staff’s remarks, I think they stand on their own. As a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, I mean he articulates the view that he sees of the situation there on the ground.

Of course, as Secretary of the Army, my role is to focus on my responsibilities to man and train and equip the force so that the combatant commanders in theater have everything they need to accomplish the mission.

MACCALLUM: But in terms of you know, there’s -- I know there’s been a lot of debate in the defense community about what is the right thing to do here. And one of the guests that I had on last night who’s outside of the military community but works closely with them Mouaz Moustafa had this to say about the idea that we could be pulling out too soon and creating more problems for ourselves. Let’s play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOUAZ MOUSTAFA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SYRIAN EMERGENCY TASK: It’s important that we lock down that win before we withdraw and it’s also really important to remember that if we do and we will have to come back later if we don’t finish the job, we’re going to have to come back --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What is your understanding about how long we are going to stay? We know Ambassador Bolton at one point, now the National Security Adviser said as long as there are Iranian soldiers on the ground in that area essentially who would fill that absence, we will stay. So what about this mixed message?

ESPER: Well, the army stands ready to support either way. I trust that between the Secretary of the State, the White House, Ambassador Bolton and the Secretary of Defense and the commander’s on the ground, we will work the right strategy going forward to make -- to ensure that our interests are protected there.

MACCALLUM: All right, I want to ask you just a question about the news today. This the codell that has been canceled that was going to take members of Congress to Afghanistan. You know, what’s the real impact? I think people see these codells go back and forth and they understand that the point of them is so that members of Congress can be on the ground and can see a little bit better what’s going on. But how important really are those to the mission?

ESPER: Well, I’m not sure with regard to any particular mission. It is important that Congress understands what their military does and how we fulfill the requirements the combat commanders and the orders of the commander-in-chief. But you know it depends on a situation that what’s the best time for members to visit and when and obviously the call was made in this circumstance. And so I will just leave it at that.

MACCALLUM: All right, you heard the President talking about a space force. There’s also a lot of discussion about hypersonic missiles that the United States and Russia and China are all scrambling to have great capability in. Can you explain to everybody as we watch this in animation just sort of the very basic description of what a hypersonic missile is?

ESPER: Well, a hypersonic weapon is something also the United States military is pursuing as well particularly the Army, Navy, and Air Force working together. It really is a vehicle if you will that can skip across the outer edges of space and hit a target with a great deal of terminal velocity causing substantial damage. It’s something that the Army is working on because it’s critical to our -- the Renaissance that is underway in terms of how we fight future strategic competitors such as Russia and China.

For us, it’s the top priority to build long-range precision fires that is the ability to strike targets a great, great distances and inflect the damage we need to be successful on the battlefield.

MACCALLUM: And these missiles at this point are faster than any missile shield system could stop, is that true?

ESPER: They are very difficult to stop. I think they move at five to seven times the speed of sound. They’re very capable and often very small. And that’s why we are pursuing them with great speed.

MACCALLUM: And it can change direction, you can change direction on them as they’re going, correct?

ESPER: They can’t be maneuverable. They don’t follow what you would call ballistic trajectory. They can be maneuverable and that’s what adds the complexity of them.

MACCALLUM: Incredible. And you know, give us a sense of where we stand compared to Russia and China. Are they ahead of us on this?

ESPER: I’m -- you know, I won’t speak to any details but I’m fully confident in American technological prowess. I think whether it’s hypersonic weapons, artificial intelligence robotics, all the things that the United States Army is pursuing right now to be successful in 2020 and beyond that we’ll get there first. Because whoever gets there first will be -- will have extensive overmatch on the battlefield for years to come so it’s critical that we make all the right investments and that we leverage these technologies to make us more effective on the battlefield.

MACCALLUM: Dr. Mark Esper, thank you very much for coming in tonight and for answering the questions. The Secretary of the Army, good to have you here, Sir.

ESPER: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So still ahead this evening. He survived 9/11 by the hand of fate but yesterday he was the only American killed in a Kenya al- Shabaab terror attack. His brother will join me soon with his story and his message.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: All right, here we go. Take this Wal-Mart bag, two of them loaded with cash and I’m going to throw in just for good measure, a collectible boxing glove probably from a charity auction. That is what doing business with Michael Cohen was like according to the man that he tried to pay that way. The payment was to an I.T. executive who was brought on to try to push candidate Trump higher in the polling through flooding online votes in some such manipulation.

Chief national correspondent, Ed Henry, joins us from New York with the very latest on this story. Good evening, Ed.

ED HENRY, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. We thought we had literally heard everything when it comes to this long winding Russia probe, but then we learned about that Walmart shopping bag full of over 12,000 bucks in cash, allegedly at Trump Tower.

Even though, election (inaudible) candidates in both parties try at least to manipulate polls all the time. And in the case of Michael Cohen, he did not even successfully rig these poles. He hired an I.T. pro to rig a 2014 CNBC poll about the top business leaders.

Then businessman Donald Trump did not even crack the top 100 despite trying to rig it. And Cohen paid the same man, I.T. pro, in 2015 to try to manipulate a Drudge Report poll of potential Republican presidential hopefuls. Guess what? Candidate Trump finished fifth, not first.

Cohen was supposed to pay John Gauger -- he’s the owner of RedFinch. He works also at Liberty University -- 50,000 bucks for various work, but according to Wall Street Journal came up short on the 50,000 when they met at Trump Tower. Instead, giving Gauger, quote, "a blue Walmart bag containing between $12,000 and $13,000 in cash, and randomly, a boxing glove that Michael Cohen said had been worn by a Brazilian mixed-martial arts fighter."

Interesting, Cohen did not really deny a bunch of the details. He insists, it was not cash, it was a check. He tweeted, quote, "as for the Wall Street Journal article in poll rigging, what I did was at the direction of, for the sole benefit of real Donald Trump, the president. I truly regret my blind loyalty to a man who doesn’t deserve it."

Now the president’s personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, fired back that Cohen has been sentenced to three years in prison, of course, in part, for lying to Congress. He told Fox the president knew nothing about Cohen trying to alter these polls. And if he did, Cohen did it on his own.

Now, Giuliani also declared the biggest revelation is that Cohen allegedly stole 37,000 bucks from the president because he was reimbursed for the full 50 grand. Giuliani told Fox, quote, "you can add a petty thief to all the other labels like liar and dishonorable lawyer that have been described to Cohen."

Now Giuliani himself, though, is trying to clarify the fact that he and the president have many times claimed there was no collusion between the Trump camp and Russia. But last night, he seemed to try to move the goalpost a bit, Giuliani. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP’S ATTORNEY: I said there was no collusion between the campaign or between people in the campaign.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Yes, you have.

GIULIANI: I have no idea if -- I have not. I said the president of the United States -- there is not a single bit of evidence that the president of the United States committed the only crime you could commit here conspired with the Russians to hack the DNC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now Giuliani tried to tweet that today a bit by saying, "He only represents the president and not the entire campaign," which is true. And said that’s what he’s referring to. As for Cohen, he scheduled to testify before the House Oversight Committee, remember that, on February 7th. He will undoubtedly be asked under oath what he knows about whether any Trump campaigns were involved with Russia or not. But also, you can bet there might be some questions about that Walmart bag, Martha, and whether there was cash in it or not.

MACCALLUM: I mean, it’s unbelievable story. And I’m glad you pointed out something that I didn’t really see a whole lot of places today, which -- it doesn’t take away, you know, the poll manipulation issue, which as you say all candidates try to do.

And that’s why places like Fox News, we don’t use a lot of polls.

HENRY: We don’t use a lot of polls.

MACCALLUM: We only use the polls and only the polls --

(CROSSTALK)

HENRY: We pull through our methodology.

MACCALLUM: -- that we know that we can rely on in this -- in campaigns. But you know, when, I mean, he couldn’t even do it.

HENRY: Right.

MACCALLUM: He boosted them into -- he couldn’t get him into the first hundred and he failed on both accounts to get --

(CROSSTALK)

HENRY: Right. I’m sure Beto O’Rourke and others --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: It was like online polls where people call in.

HENRY: Right.

MACCALLUM: And if you call 700 times, you are going to move up the list. Right?

HENRY: All kinds of Democrats are going to try to whether you call it rigging or manipulator or push the polls a little bit now and say my guy or gal is at the top. Gillibrand, they try to push them or whatever.

There’s another funny thing. Michael Cohen, at one point thought, maybe I’d run for mayor or something like that here in New York City. So, he also paid this I.T. guy to create a Twitter account called @womenforCohen. Among other things, they say in the profile about Michael Cohen, women who love and support Michael Cohen, strong, pit bull, sex symbol, no-nonsense, business-oriented and ready to make a difference.

If nothing else, Martha, I think Gillette would be outraged.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. How many followers did that Instagram Cohen now, I wonder?

HENRY: I think it’s a small number. I don’t know how many --

MACCALLUM: How many did that guy could go up and the followers for a --

(CROSSTALK)

HENRY: I don’t think they gave it a first place without Twitter account, either.

MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you.

HENRY: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: Gosh, it gets you crazy by the day. All right. Coming up next, a futurist whose predictions for 2018 were pretty good. He tells us where the world is headed now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, my next two guests are futurists, like to look at the dynamics of what’s going on and what it means about what will come. So, wouldn’t you like to know what’s coming next in this crazy world?

Steve Levine is -- he looks at 2019 and he says it is full of major stressors, folks, because 2018 was so relaxing, right?

Joining mew now is Steve Hilton, host of The Next Revolution, and Steve Levine, Axios future editor and senior fellow at The Atlantic Council. Welcome to both of you. Good to have you here.

Steve, let me start with you, sir. What are the major stressors that we’re going to have to deal with in 2019, since as I said 2018 was such a breeze?

STEVE LEVINE, FUTURE EDITOR, AXIOS: That’s right. The number one forecast for next year is a mainstream challenge to the capitalist system as practiced. So, just to be clear that it’s not a challenge to capitalism but to how we’ve been carrying it out over this year.

So, the last two and a half years, we’ve seen you’re using this word stressors around the world, country after country, uprisings, people are very unhappy, and it’s one of the main themes has been unhappiness with the economy.

And what -- where we are is that this is washing over into politics. So, both major political parties in the United States moving into the mainstream agreeing that something is very, very wrong with the economics of the system and what are we going to do about it.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, it’s a great issue to think about. And Steve Hilton, I know you have also thought about this quite a bit. And you know, you have a lot of young people who are in favor of socialism who believe that capitalism is a bad system.

Then you have people at the other end of the spectrum who are raising questions about income inequality and the way that we have lost sight of the importance of, you know, the forgotten men and women that the president talked about so much on the campaign trail. Where is this going?

STEVE HILTON, HOST: Yes, it’s exactly right. Well, I just think it’s important, Martha, to note that as Steve has identified, I think we are coming to the end of a very long period, you know, not just a few years, but probably, you know, four or five decades of consensus around policy that’s been shared by both mainstream parties here and other equivalent democracies around the world.

And that consensus has basically been relaxed and enthusiastic about globalization, automation, centralization and also uncontrolled immigration. All those things have benefitted those people at the top but have left, as you say, millions of people behind. And now, you’re seeing the anger expressed.

I think in the short time we’re seeing some relief from that. Let’s be clear that there is good news here. Here in America, the Trump economic policies have started to break the logjam of wage stagnation. Incomes are going up for the first time in a decade, and you’re seeing more people come into the workforce.

But what you are not seeing, I think, is a long-term plan for dealing with those problems. And I think at the heart of it is the centralization of power. You’ve got economic power centralized with these giant corporations getting bigger and bigger, but political power as well taken away from local communities and states and centralized, especially in unelected bureaucracies. And that’s what makes people so angry because they can’t control the things that matter to them. That’s what we need to change.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And Steve, you say specifically that big personalities are going to be key dynamics in where all of this is going on. There’s, you know, you said that you think that Maduro will fall that he has opponent who seems to be rising up, Henri Falcon, who may change the dynamic there. What other big personalities do you think are going to be pivotal to what we see happening this year?

LEVINE: Yes. This point shouldn’t be under looked. The big factor in news in the events over the last three, four, or five years has been big personality. And so, of course, it’s President Trump --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LEVINE: -- Vladimir Putin, Erdogan in Turkey, Xi Jinping in China. And because these are giant figures who want -- who inherently want to impose their personality on events, they’re prone to operate outside the lanes, they like to operate outside the norms.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

LEVINE: They like to be unpredictable. As soon as you attempt to pin Putin down in one place, he does the other thing. And Trump is just the same. And so -- and so, you know, Steve and I, both, we’re putting ourselves in a precarious position by attempting to forecast the year, but these are among the personalities to watch.

MACCALLUM: All right. Quick thought, Steve before we go.

HILTON: One last thought. There’s one place in the world where it’d be great if you did have a giant personalities (Ph) and you don’t have it now (ph) and that is the U.K. because right now you got a bunch of political pigmies there that what’s why they’re making such a mess of Brexit. A big personality is much needed to get things moving there.

MACCALLUM: Thank you guys.

LEVINE: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Big personalities from Steve Hilton over there. Thank you, guys. Good to see you both.

LEVINE: Thanks, Martha.

HILTON: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, this individual survived 9/11 and help people in the aftermath and then he decides to spend the rest of his life helping other people. But yesterday, tragically, he became the only American victim of a vicious terror attack. This time, it was overseas. Jason Spindler’s brothers are with me next.

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MACCALLUM: A vicious terror attack claimed the lives of 21 innocent people this week. The attack in Kenya, believed to have been carried out by the Al Qaeda affiliated Al-Shabaab terror group, who is very unhappy that Kenya has been attacking them in Somalia to try to eradicate them from the area.

Among those killed one lone American who had survived 9/11. On that day in 2001, Jason Spindler was a recent college graduate actually ran toward the World Trade Center to help his fellow Americans and that event changed the trajectory of his life. He joined the Peace Corps, later went on to become the cofounder and CEO of a strategy and investment firm with an office in Nairobi until his bright light was extinguished far, far, far too soon.

His brothers, Jonathan and Aaron, join me now in a story exclusive. Jonathan and Aaron, first of all on, we are all so sorry for your loss. You’re a beautiful family. I looked at pictures of all of you enjoying celebrations together today. And it’s hard for any of us to understand what you’re going through. So, first of all, our sympathies are with you both.

Aaron, let me start with you. What do you remember about his story on 9/11, and as we just mentioned a little bit of, can you tell me about what he did that day to help other people and what the impact was on his life?

AARON SPINDLER, BROTHER KILLED IN KENYA ATTACK: Absolutely. On 9/11, Jason was working down in the financial district. One of the World Trade Center buildings. He had just two weeks earlier.

So, instead of taking the ferry right directly through the World Trade Center, he was exiting the subway right as the first tower fell. And the cloud of dust covered everybody in the subway coming out and everybody ran. And instead of running away from the danger he ran in to grab people and save as many people as he can and get them to safety.

He really even went back days after to volunteer and it really had a profound impact on him and his persona. He really felt that he wanted to change his trajectory and find a better way to try to bring peace into the world through economic development and raising on the level of economic abilities and underprivileged countries.

MACCALLUM: And he did just that and he went to Nairobi and he lived there and he worked there and he help people with, you know, small amounts of money to try to build businesses and communicate with the United States.

Jonathan, tell me, you know, when you got the news yesterday -- on Tuesday, rather -- excuse me -- that there had been an explosion. What happened, how did you learn what happened?

JONATHAN SPINDLER, BROTHER KILLED IN KENYA ATTACK: So, first, I want to say thank you for having us on the show --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

J. SPINDLER: -- and for being able to share our brother’s passion for helping people with your viewers.

I was getting my kids ready in the morning and I saw it on Fox News that there had been a bombing. I texted my brother. I didn’t hear back from him. A couple hours later, I text him on WhatsApp, you know, a different message and said, E.T. call home, and still hadn’t heard from him.

And then we started to worry and took to Facebook and saw that his business partner, Patricia Sweeney, had posted that he had left office for a late lunch and he was at the hotel at the cafe eating during the time of the attack.

His office was great. They flooded Nairobi looking for him for 15 hours, absolutely amazing checking all the hospitals and searching for him.

MACCALLUM: Jonathan, what do you want people to know about your brother and the man that he was and how he spent his life?

J. SPINDLER: Jason dedicated his life to helping others. No matter where he went he touched everybody, his infectious -- his infectious smile and his personality and his ability to instantly connect with people. His passion was helping people in underprivileged company -- countries and really teaching them the ways of economics and business and to foster. And he was an amazing uncle and that’s --

MACCALLUM: And he said that he would stop everything. He traveled all over the world, it was a big adventure. He loves to rock climb and all of that and that he would stop everything on Sundays to talk to your kids, right?

J. SPINDLER: Absolutely. Every Sunday, it was face time day. He was adamant to talk to my kids. And every time he stopped in Houston which was, every time he came to the states. We ate at his favorite restaurant and took the kids rock climbing and hang out with them, and we were all very, very close.

MACCALLUM: Aaron, how is -- you know, how is the rest of your family doing, and also, if you could share with me, you know, a memory, something, something that you carry with you when you’re processing all this and thinking about how much you love him.

A. SPINDLER: Yes. Absolutely. I mean, our whole family is just heartbroken. We miss him so much and we’re just trying to accept the news. And you know, and as far as memories, I have so many amazing memories with him. He was just such an amazing brother in person and have that personality to really push people.

He was definitely the type of person that if you win -- won the Olympic gold medal minutes after he’d ask you, "what’s next, what are you going to do next." This isn’t good enough type of person. He really knows how to get under your skin and try you to be a better -- a better human.

And yes, there are just so many amazing memories. But I’ll never forget my time in Cajamarca, Peru with him, playing one of the most amazing music festivals that he helped found, called Antifaz, and it was just, yes, we had an amazing time. We shared passion for music together and collective vinyl. Yes, and I’ll just -- I’ll really miss being able to share sure music with him and, you know, enjoyed adventures for sure.

MACCALLUM: You are great guys and I’m so sorry. I know how brothers are. And it’s going be very hard. And we -- I’m glad you have each other and we thank you for being here. And this kind of terrorism and attacks just has to stop as others do it. Gentlemen, thank you.

A. SPINDLER: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much.

J. SPINDLER: I just want to say that our hearts and thoughts and prayers go out with all of Kenya, all of Nairobi, and everybody that was affected. We’re celebrating our brother’s life in heaven --

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

J. SPINDLER: -- but there are many others as well.

MACCALLUM: It’s so true. Absolutely. Thank you for pointing that out. Jonathan and Aaron, thank you both.

J. SPINDLER: Jason love them all.

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

A. SPINDLER: Thank you so much.

J. SPINDLER: Thank you for having us.

MACCALLUM: Thank you both. Good evening. Good night. We’re going to take a break. We’ll be right back.

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MACCALLUM: Finally, it has been two years this week since we began “The Story” as with the first hundred days in its first iteration. Here’s a look back at night number one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: Good evening. And welcome to the First 100 Days. I’m Martha MacCallum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Martha, congratulations on your show.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. It’s great to have you here on night one as we go through the first hundred days of the Trump presidency.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations on the new show.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. And thanks for being here on day one.

Here now in an exclusive interview, Senator John McCain, chairman of the Armed Services Committee. Senator, welcome. Great to have you with us tonight. Let me ask you this --

FMR. SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: We begin this new 100-day journey and a new year and a new presidency. This from T.S. Eliot, "For last year’s words belong to last year’s language. And next year’s words await another voice."

We want to be your voice. Good night, everybody. Thanks for being with us on our maiden voyage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: Good to see John McCain there. Thank you all for making us number one. We’re grateful to have you with us. Our mission is to give you the straight story every night.

Here’s Tucker.

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