This is a rush transcript from "The Fox News Specialists," June 20, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Eboni K. Williams and Kat Timpf. We are "The Fox News Specialists." Outrage over the death of Otto Warmbier is intensifying, the 22-year-old American student death just days after his release from North Korea with severe brain damage, now being called murder by top U.S. lawmakers. This afternoon, the White House responded to questions about whether the U.S. would retaliate against the rogue state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have been forceful in our political and economic pressure that has been applied in North Korea, and it will continue to apply that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And President Trump also tweeted short time ago saying, quote, while I greatly appreciate the efforts of President Xi & China to help with North Korea, it has not worked out, at least I know China tried. Eboni, Kat -- let's do the tweet in a second, but Spicer's response it didn't sound very forceful to me.
KATHERINE TIMPF, CO-HOST: No, it didn't. Not forceful enough. It is murder, right? It's clearly, clearly is murder and should be more forceful. But what are you going to do?
BOLLING: What do you think.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, of course. It was way too measured. You have to call a thing a thing, you know, whether that's Islamic terror or in this case the murder of this innocent young man, so let's be consistent on that.
BOLLING: All right. Let's get right to this. Let's meet today's specialists. He's the CEO and founder of the Guardian Angels, he's the New York State Reform Party chairman, and he's the cohost of the Curtis and Eboni Show on 77WABC radio, and he specializes in rocking a red beret better than anyone we know, Curtis Sliwa is here. And he's the associate editor of the Spectator, he's the associate editor --director, I'm sorry, of the Henry Jackson Society, a U.K. foreign policy think tank, and he's the author of a new book, the strange death of Europe, immigration, identity, Islam, which is out today, and he specializes in being an Englishman in New York, Douglas Murray is also here.
But I have a few more things to say about this. It's time to wake up, America. The death of Otto Warmbier broke just before we went to air yesterday. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Maybe because I have a son about the same age when poor Otto wandered innocently into North Korea on a travel junket, something my son might do, or maybe because I have a long memory. I remember that obviously staged North Korean press conference where Otto admitted to taking a poster from a hotel for which he was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor, again, a poster from a hotel. Now look at the video. Otto breaking down in fear of the fate he waited, doesn't take a UVA degree to see that this was a coerced confession, that young man right there was scared to death, possibly, probably, literally.
But I also remember the shameless way the liberal left media treated poor Otto. Despicable -- ran this headline, check it out, this might be America's biggest idiot frat boy. That has been deleted but it got worse. Huffington Post made the incident about race and blamed Otto, they said, quote, North Korea proves your white male privilege is not universal. So according to the Huffington Post, Otto Warmbier was abducted by North Korean war criminals because he was white and the whole matter is his own fault. Huffington Post, you owe the Warmbier's an apology. But leave it failing liberal websites inserts race and white privilege to literally everything. Can we just please stop? Apparently we can't.
Check out this tweet via website that claims to represent millennials, said, quote, watch whiteness work. He wasn't a kid or innocent. You can't go to another country and try to steal from them. Respect their laws. That was Affinity Magazine and they tweeted this after the news broke of Otto's demise, blaming poor Otto for the cruel and unusual punishment -- by the way that is lonesome, it's sub-human. But reasonable people on both sides of the political spectrum should see that as horrendous. Nobody deserves the fate of Otto Warmbier, nobody. And those who think it's cute, funny, or an opportunity to highlight social justice issues, maybe you should spend a few months in a North Korean prison, let us know how American life and liberty look to you then. Any takers in at Affinity, by the way? I doubt it. After a severe backlash, Affinity took down that asinine tweet. I'll bring Curtis Sliwa right away, what is going on with the left that they will insert white privilege into all their debates, all their dialogues?
CURTIS SLIWA, NEW YORK STATE REFORM PARTY CHAIRMAN: Because they're so used to their mantra. And yet, I'm looking at this and I'm saying, hey, Mr. President, how about putting on a travel ban to any American who is crazy enough to go behind the kimchi curtain of North Korea, and you know with the evil seed of Kim Jong-un mentally ill. That's where we need a travel ban. When Otto decided to go with everyone else, you're taking a risk. These are countries with totalitarian dictators. Kill their own people. Why wouldn't they kill a tourist or a visitor? And we're not prepared to go to was. I hope Eric you're not suggesting this is like weapons of mass destruction. This is like Gaddafi in Libya. This is like Bashar Assad. We do not need to start a fight over that.
BOLLING: I got lit up a little bit yesterday for suggesting that maybe there could, or would be, or should be a preemptive -- let's not call it a nuclear strike, but certainly a strike to limit North Korea's capability of delivering a warhead to the United States.
DOUGLAS MURRAY, THE SPECTATOR: Well, that's certainly why the red line has to be held by this country. I mean, look, North Korea is, against some fairly stiff competition, the worst country in the world. I've been as a reporter to many terrible places. I've been to North Korea. It's literally a hell on earth. There is nothing you could do to cut it off more. It's totally isolated. It had no sense of what the outside world believes or knows about it. The people have been brainwashed. When the regime does fall it will be -- you will need millions of psychiatrists to deal with the people in that country alone. But the absolute red light for this country is you cannot allow it to get deliverable missiles.
BOLLING: And the problem is -- and Kat, when do we know? I mean, there literally could be an ICBM, intercontinental ballistic missile, on a launch site and we don't know what they have jack in the tip of that warhead.
TIMPF: Right. And the problem is there really is no good way to deal with North Korea. Of course, we don't want them to -- allow them to get to that point, but if we do something, Eric, obviously, they're going to retaliate. We can't wipe out everything, especially the way the terrain is. There's a lot of ways to hide things. And like you said, all those people there, there'd be a huge vacuum -- look what happened in Libya, see that in steroids in terms of a vacuum of power, even if we did take him out, people being able to come in and have the same terrorist type organizations there. So it's a huge, huge mess.
BOLLING: Do you want to address your radio cohost over there saying that maybe the only way to do this is to do a travel -- Curtis, a travel ban?
SLIWA: Before I step on you, Eboni K. Williams.
EBONI K. WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Go ahead.
SLIWA: . it's red China we need to go after.
BOLLING: You blamed American travelers.
SLIWA: North Korea can't survive a day without the red Chinese yen. And it's the president playing footsie with president who's on first, I don't know who's on second, who's on third, down at Mar-a-Lago having chocolate cake. It's the red Chinese that we need to put pressure on.
WILLIAMS: In his defense, he did mention China this morning on our show. Listen, Eric, I actually want to address something that I thought was very important and powerful in your monologue, and that is the fact that the way certain -- I don't even call them publication, rags, Internet rags responding to the death of this young man, shows the real lack of empathy in our country, in our world. It's the same lack of empathy I've seen in the wake of the tragic death of Philando Castile, whatever you think happened, because people are so attached to their political ideologies, right, and they ran in their respective corners. And they get so caught up in their feelings around it that when innocent people die there is no room in their heart and in their emotional capacity for empathy. And I think that's very, very important because no matter -- you know, I wouldn't advise anyone to go to North Korea, obviously, but this young man is dead and it's unnecessary.
BOLLING: There are at three more -- at least three more Americans being held under the same circumstances, so far a Canadian as well. So Curtis, before we wait and see who doesn't show up in North Korea anymore, what are the answers? How do we get these people back? Should we talk to foreign policy experts? How do you get our other three Americans back?
MURRAY: It's extremely hard because the nature of the regime now with Kim Jong-un is even more unpredictable than it was with his father or his grandfather. I think that first of all, regime change is kind of off the table. The only thing you can do is to go by the Chinese. The Chinese -- regard to North Koreans as being like a very embarrassing young relative. They know that they sought own it and are responsible for it and they hate it and yet they need it. And it's only with the Chinese, you say, you can do anything.
BOLLING: How do you get the Chinese to understand that any sort of conflict on the Korean peninsula would be a floodgate of refugees into mainland China?
MURRAY: The Chinese knows that. They don't want South Korean style capitalism on their border either. So the only way you can do it's to persuade the Chinese that the price for them not bringing Pyongyang into line is worse than the price of bringing them into line. I mean, you're dealing with literally the most insane leadership on the planet.
WILLIAMS: How do we demonstrate that, though, with you just said? Because that's been my question I ask 15 different ways every time this topic comes up. How do we incentivize China to get on board?
SLIWA: We've already do it. We attack Iran on a regular basis. But we give the red Chinese a pass. They export fentanyl into our country. It is now the number one reason that people are dying of opioids in this country. It's because of red China. We give them a pass on everything. This president has to knock off his business deal mentality with red China.
BOLLING: So Curtis, are you suggesting military action against China?
SLIWA: The same way we're putting pressure on the North Koreans with aircraft carriers and battleships and cruisers, start aiming it toward the red Chinese coast. Start putting.
BOLLING: You mean you'd rather aim our cannons and our firepower at 1.3 or 1.4 billion people, than maybe 40 or 50 million people?
SLIWA: Who pulls the strings on the North Koreans? It's the red Chinese.
SLIWA: We're distracted and deflected by that fat guy with a bad haircut, the nut job, who obviously wants to be a cast character in mayhem. He loves doing this.
WILLIAMS: I disagree. We're not distracted, Curtis. What it is our financial interests are in direct conflict with our.
SLIWA: It's all about the money.
TIMPF: There are actually are consequences. You've just sort of threatening and aiming cannons at people all around the world.
SLIWA: But we do it in Syria. We do it in North Korea.
BOLLING: Let's bring in Douglas in here. I mention yesterday, I believe it was 1981, Israel was threatened by the Iranians in their nuclear program, and they covertly went in and said, look, we want your help, United States, we weren't offering it and they did on their own. They blasted their nuclear capabilities 20 years into the future.
MURRAY: The Israeli carried out the most successful preemptive strike in military history. I think it stop the country for getting nuclear weaponry. Look, the thing with North Korea, you've got to decide what it is you want. If you want to get the people home, then that's one decision. If you want to stop them being a nuclear power, that's another decision. If you want to do regime change that's another. But to my mind, you have to decide which are these is most important.
BOLLING: Let me ask you this, Kat. Do the North Koreans have the right, let's call it the -- do they have the right to develop their nuclear program knowing what we know about their leader?
TIMPF: Obviously not. I don't think anybody would say that that's a good idea, obviously not.
BOLLING: I didn't say good idea or bad idea. Do they have the right to do it?
TIMPF: No, because it's a murderous regime. We don't want that. Nobody wants that either.
BOLLING: Isn't it our turn or our time, or do you think to have a coalition go in.
TIMPF: And do what?
BOLLING: . 65 years we tried to deal with this.
BOLLING: . North Korean regime, five presidents haven't been able to. Maybe it is time to do -- take a page from the Israelis.
MURRAY: They're the only country in the world that actually runs concentration camps.
TIMPF: Yeah, exactly.
MURRAY: The only country.
WILLIAMS: But yet, we still continue to tie on this notion of doing a deal with the regime that is -- I just don't you can do a deal with everybody, Eric. And I know that sounds hawkish or whatever. But, I mean, my goodness, it's like it's not worth the paper that it's written on because They are not operating in good faith and that's the truth.
BOLLING: We do -- Curtis, we do have covert operations, do we not?
TIMPF: It would have to be something like that.
BOLLING: No one is going to say this on television but, you know, maybe this is the time and the place for a very covert operation.
SLIWA: Or the alternative, take the moth balls out of the love shack in Chappaqua, the whitest suburbs in America, where Bill and Hillary share a house, and send Bill over there with Al Gore. They went there before. They brought back our hostages there before. You see, you play to a nut job like the evil-seeded Kim Jong-mentally-ill and you make him feel important. Send Clinton. Send Gore.
BOLLING: Curtis, bringing back these three hostages isn't going to solve the problem of Kim Jong-un, who consistently tells us he's going to be able to reach the western coast of the United States with a bomb.
SLIWA: If you were in Seoul, Korea, right now, it'd be great if we all of a sudden launched missiles into North Korea. But the first people who get hit are in Seoul, and he's going to turn them into speed bumps.
BOLLING: By no means -- I'm not trying to insinuate that we blow the North Koreans to smithereens. I'm saying we just take the teeth, or set their nuclear program back 10 or 20 years by whatever means necessary.
MURRAY: Yeah, that's the most obvious. You've got to do that at some point. There's one other thing to bear in mind. They may be a crazy regime, the most-crazy, but at some level Kim Jong-un wants to survive, and he knows like everyone else in the North Korean leadership that they're riding a tiger, and the moment that they get off, they get eaten.
WILLIAMS: I think you said it best.
BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there. You good?
BOLLING: Good to go. All right. When we come right back, an explosion rocked the heart of Brussels, Belgium, setting Europe on edge yet again. We've got the very latest. Stay tuned.
WILLIAMS: Fear gripping Brussels central train station today. Soldiers shot a male suspect who's reportedly wearing an explosive belt with wires coming out of his clothes. The AP reports the bomb squad has successfully done a controlled explosion of the bomb belt. It's still unclear if the suspect survived. Now fortunately, officials say there are no civilian casualties and the situation is under control, thank God. But incidentally, this comes after new calls from ISIS for revenge strikes following Sunday's London mosque attack that was carried out by a white British citizen. Douglas, your new book deals about these problems, so we will start with you. Specifically, I want to ask you this, many people use the phrase, divide and conquer, and it seems that this is an effort by these terror forces to divide the civilians, Muslim, anti-Muslim, and then be able to conquer, your take.
MURRAY: That's certainly one of the expressed aims of ISIS. They want to go after what they call the gray zone of Muslims who don't support them who live in Europe, who they think come onto their side. It's a huge problem. I'm from London. We've had three terror attacks in ten weeks. And then on Sunday night, when we had the news, the immediate instinct was, my God, it's another Islamist terrorist attacked, but then we discover it had this awful, dark, extra thing, which is -- this is the first really significant terrorist attack by a white British citizen against Muslims just coming out of a mosque.
BOLLING: Doug, can we point to all the terror -- exception of this, obviously, the one you're talking about, the white terrorist. I'm talking about the general sense of upscale number of frequency of terror in -- throughout the continent. Can we point to the open border policy of the continent?
MURRAY: Yes. This is what my book, the strange death of Europe, is about. It's about the fact that European leaders for actually more than a generation, but particularly this generation, have just performed the most insane experiment on our society. They did something -- opening the borders, without any consideration of what it meant. And now, we're left in this incredibly difficult situation in Europe. Where trying to find an answer for problem that the politicians have given us. And they're looking around France, but it's not easy because they've given us this problem. And they don't want to admit it.
One other thing that's worth pointing out, you know this guy on Sunday night, everyone from the media and everyone else will be crawling over his contacts. Was he part of a cell, was he ever involved with something that said go and kill Muslims, because if it's so, we will all come down on all of this like a ton of bricks. But you know what, the Manchester bomber, the other week, who bombed the Ariana Grande concert and killed 22 people, it turned out the local mosque was handing out anti-western literature. Nobody cared. Nobody wanted to look into it. We're really good and rightly so about looking at it when it's a white extremist doing something. But our society is still are terrible at about looking at the causes when it's an Islamist extremist.
TIMPF: Right. And when you say our society, I often talk about the way that things are worse in Europe than in the United States because of policy differences in Europe, in terms of just letting everybody in. That's not what we have here right now. I'm not saying we don't need improvement, but that's certainly not what we have in the United States now.
MURRAY: No, and that's why -- I mean, I just regard all of this as being a big warning for your society. Everything I described, everything that we have gone through in Europe, you're going through versions of both what you feel as a society and what you're doing in the world. And I just think this is a huge warning sign to the United States, don't do what we've done.
TIMPF: Do not adopt a similar policy to what Europe has now.
WILLIAMS: I agree with that. Curtis, obviously, we don't want to turn into the disaster that's been going on in Europe every day, there's another terror attack there. What lessons should we be taking as we watch our Europeans.
SLIWA: Lessons we should be taking is -- think back to that time before we went to war in Iraq, we're going to elect Tony Blair president. We said if only Bush 43 could speak like Blair. Blair was the author of the idea, bring them in and we'll somehow convert them with western values, with technology, by introducing them to women, sex, decadence, debauchery. They don't want to be jihadist anymore. They don't understand the mind of a young man. Give a young man a gun, give him a weapon, and it's all like a symbol. And these fiery imams they let go into their mosques, and they subsidize these mosques, many of these governments of the European Union. They get up there on the bully pulpit on the day of prayer, -- on Friday, and they talk about violence and killing and doing jihad in Syria, and Libya, and the Middle East, and North Africa, and around the world. And the government permits this and subsidizes this. This is like suicide. And Europe, unfortunately, is in the cycle in which they can't seem to bail themselves out.
BOLLING: So I will take your question, what lesson. I think the lesson happened on November 8th of 2016, when we elected Donald Trump president because we elected someone who has an idea for a more closed border than an open, free society. Let me ask you this, Doug. Is Donald Trump's travel ban -- is it a bad idea?
MURRAY: Look, the fascinating thing about that is when he proposed it, you couldn't find anybody in polite society from where I am from who would defend it. You could barely find them here. What he suggested was a temporary ban on people from seven very unstable countries. You know what, there was a poll shortly afterwards that was presented that when around ten European countries and asked a much harder question, do you agree with the statement there should be zero more Muslims in your country? In 8 out of the 10 European countries, the majority of the public said not one more Muslim. One of the only to two were that wasn't the majority opinion was my country, Great Britain, where only 47 percent of the public agrees.
BOLLING: So are we as Americans not listening to the Europeans who've change their opinions?
MURRAY: I think in all of our society, we've got this big problem. There are the things that we know instinctively we need to do to keep ourselves safe, and then there's the political conversation which exists on a different sphere.
WILLIAMS: OK. I want to finish with this point. I appreciate exactly what you said, Douglas. I think that we all need to be very particular when we talk about Muslims though, right? Not because we're being P.C. or delicate around them, but when we collectively talk about them all in a particular way, I think it empowers and emblazes the Islamic state.
MURRAY: Exactly right.
TIMPF: And things happen like what happened.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, exactly. So coming up, down to the wire, with tonight's special congressional election in Georgia proves a key test for President Trump popularity and agenda. Stay with us.
TIMPF: Today's special election for Georgia's sixth congressional district taking on blockbuster proportions. Voting is underway with Republican Karen Handel and Democrat Jon Ossoff making their last-minute pitches in the most expensive congressional race in U.S. history. Some political observers are calling it a major bellwether for President Trump and his agenda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is the third race we've had to replace Republican House members who left the house to go join the Trump administration. One in Kansas, Republicans won. One in Montana, Republicans won. This one in South Carolina, Republicans are going to win today. So Georgia is the Democrats' last chance to show that they can ride President Trump's unpopularity into office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Can I just weigh in on that? Very smart guy, but he's wrong about this. This isn't blockbuster. This isn't bellwether. This is the fourth, as he amply points out South Carolina is going to go to the Republican. It's going to be a strong Republican win tonight. Kansas went to the Republican. Montana went to the Republican. You have three Republican wins, and you're going to say this one where it's like a statistical tie is the one that's going to be the bellwether?
TIMPF: Also Karen Handel is not really a Trump populist-type of candidate. She's very much an establishment candidate. So just because she's a Republican, I don't think it has anything to do with Trump's agenda, whatsoever. Eric, I agree with you.
WILLIAMS: Even if she does win -- you know, I'll take it further, I don't think any of these racist tells us anything about Trump and his popularity or a test of his coat tails. I think it's really much to do about nothing quite frankly and I think that everyone is looking for --
BOLLING: You know what the very, very interesting thing that happened in Georgia in this race right now, it's not who's going to win or who's going to lose.
WILLIAMS: How much of money?
BOLLING: The fact that $50 million is being spent for a seat that's going to pay the person who occupies that seat, 174 -- $175,000 a year. Which tells you -- Curtis --
SLIWA: Tells you -- it tells you --
BOLLING: Influence, it was a lot of money.
SLIWA: -- everything about D.C. Wining, dining, pocket lining. That's the national sport for democrats and republicans. That's why I'm the chairman of the New York State Reform Party because there's got to be some kind of campaign financial reform. $50 million, almost 25 on each side. And you really think the outside money knows who Ossoff is, do we really think they know who handle this. Do you think they care? What they do is they're betting on Trump and anti-Trump money and it's all about a horse race.
Leave it to the local people to discuss the issues. The money is all about Trump and anti-Trump. Why not take all that money because we see commercials. Ossoff evil. He's the antichrist, followed by Handel. Oh, but she is closer to Lucifer. Negative, negative ads over and over. Why not just have wholesale debates, have it full block time on T.V. show that the local people can actually see the candidates debate the issues. As opposed to these 30 and 62nd commercials that are just filled with negativity and teach you nothing about the candidate.
TIMPF: People love negativity.
MURRAY: They do but -- I mean, where I'm from, races cost so little money compared to here. I mean, we do look on amazement. In Britain, it's something like a 15,000-pound limit in each --
WILLIAMS: How nice is that.
MURRAY: And I have to say it just does have advantage. You know, really, a candidate scramble to get a 500-pound donation so they can do another leaflet drop. And, you know, there are downsides to it but the upside is we don't have this thing you have of this sort of pollution about money in politics and the uncertainty about where influence comes from and just a waste of money.
WILLIAMS: It is so wasteful. You know, when I hear this number, Eric, a $50 million on this local race. No disrespect to the district but I have to say what about how much education that could buy? What about how much health care is --
WILLIAMS: How much -- yes. Infrastructure spending (INAUDIBLE) I just think of all the better ways that money could be used than to -- as my co- host here, wine, dine, and pocket line.
BOLLING: Coming like celebrity or sport or an actor can get $20 million for a movie.
TIMPF: It's ridiculous.
BOLLING: Or a baseball player that can be paid 30, $35 million.
WILLIAMS: It's like a franchise tag, it's a franchise tag.
BOLLING: The full ball lost every five games.
WILLIAMS: It's a franchise tag politically speaking and it utterly sickening actually to me.
BOLLING: But it does point out how much -- how much -- what the value of power and influence really is. I mean, think about that. So, this is a two-year seat, 175 grand a year but they're spending 50 large to lock down that seat.
TIMPF: I think that will change with social media, which is something we already saw with Trump's campaign. It's really --
WILLIAMS: You don't have to.
TIMPF: You don't have to buy a bunch of T.V. ads to get your message out there. Now you can get your message out there with the tweet, and, you know, it actually, you know, does help if you have your own reality show first. But -- all right. Karen Handel also made -- sorry, we've got to leave it there. We've got to leave it there, guys. But tonight be sure to catch Fox's continuing coverage of the Georgia and South Carolina special elections throughout the evening including a special edition of Special Report.
The latest election result at 11:00 p.m. Eastern. Don't miss it. Straight ahead, major provocation in stay Syria between the U.S. And Russia. We'll be right back.
BOLLING: Welcome back to "The Fox News Specialists." Our specialists are Douglas Murray, author of the book "The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam" out today. Along with Curtis Sliwa and we are going to continue the conversation. Tensions escalating yet between Russia and the U.S. today, an armed Russian fighter jet erratically flew within five feet of a U.S. reconnaissance aircraft over the Baltic Sea. The provocation coming just one day after Russia warned that any U.S. plane flying over Syrian government territory would be tracked as a military target. They called it a target. But some are urging calm that made it Russia's belligerents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK KEANE, FORMER VICE CHIEF OF STAFF OF THE ARMY: The Russians are not going to shoot down a U.S. fighter airplane no matter what we do. They're not going to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Australia however is not taking any chances announcing it is suspending its part and coalition air strikes against ISIS in Syria after the Russian threat. And if that weren't enough, the U.S. also just shot down an Iranian drone threatening coalition troops in Southern Syria. Now, when we go to you -- not -- so these -- all these conflicts happening, here is the 64,000 -- the elephant in the room, let's call it that. If Syria -- Bashar al-Assad is taken out and/or if ISIS is finished, that power vacuum leaves some very important territory. Who gets what?
MURRAY: Yes, it does. And this is a central problem that your country and my country have about Syria. We just don't know what we want from it. The Russians know really clearly what they want. They have always from the beginning had an objective, to shore up their ally and do everything they can to basically make the conflict about -- put it being between Bashar al- Assad and ISIS. And it -- and it worked. You know, they're won. And your government's objective in the Obama years and my government's objective during the Cameron years was to replace -- effectively have, we wouldn't do their regime change but we couldn't see how Bashar al-Assad to be part of the solution. I think we have lost in Syria on that regard. There is no solution you can see to ending Civil war that doesn't involve Bashar al- Assad in my view. And this is a great tragedy and a great loss of power and influence and prestige for your country and mine.
BOLLING: And Curtis, would you agree it's time to back -- moonwalk away from Syria and let the Russians and the Syrians work it out with ISIS?
SLIWA: No, we should follow what President Trump has said. In this one, I agree with him completely. We need to work with the Russians. We're already working with the Iranians. We have Mosul surrounded, we're right next to Shia Militias that have Iranian guards with them, teaching them how to launch the invasion side-by-side as we are teaching the Iraqi Special Forces how to launch invasion. We're already working with Iran. And so the president was right, work with Russia which means you work with Iran to destroy the number one enemy to all of us, ISIS. That is the problem. And who is supporting ISIS? Saudi Arabians, Qatar, Oman, the UAE.
BOLLING: I don't know about that. I don't know about that.
BOLLING: That's a leap. I'm not necessarily willing to take. Go ahead, Ebony.
WILLIAMS: Eric, let me ask this question. Let me -- explain it to me Douglas and Curtis if you can. When you talk about working with the Russians, we were forked with evil before. I get you, Curtis. But this is what I don't understand. Much of America's interest when you talk about why people are so gung ho about getting involved in Syria, it comes from the empathy, the compassion. This is a brutal dictator, he's killing his own people, killing babies, wash up on shore and we know there's a relationship there between Russia and Assad. So, help me figure out how to reconcile the joint effort with Russia on ISIS. I get that but then obviously, Putin and Assad have an --
SLIWA: Because this whole concept of regime change has failed. Bush 43, Barack Obama. Let's go down the list. Iraq, huge fail.
TIMPF: Yes. You just kind of said, would you do it again,
BOLLING: You just said we should be working with these people to destroy ISIS.
TIMPF: But you know what we're already doing here?
SLIWA: Not (INAUDIBLE)
TIMPF: American forces and allies are already not just taking ISIS territory but they're hold -- we're holding it from the regime. How is that not an invasion?
SLIWA: -- the Russians will not shoot down an American fighter. I'm sure the Russians said that --
TIMPF: Nobody is listening to me whatsoever.
SLIWA: Go. No, no, no.
TIMPF: I already said something but I can repeat it again. Just that American forces and allies are not -- we're taking the territory from ISIS but we're also holding it from the regime. How was it not invasion? How would we not need to have congress vote on that and debate it and as -- how is that different from an invasion? How are we not invading Syria which a lot of people voted for Trump, they were voting against that?
BOLLING: This comes and I'm agreeing with you. I agree wholeheartedly in Syria that it's not our conflict, it's not our fight. But Doug, then you have the people who say, how can you watch Bashar al-Assad killed 400,000 of his own people and stand by and do nothing?
MURRAY: Yes. But let's be frank about this. The people who say that and we all have sympathy for that. Who wants to see this civil war go on? For the same people who say something must be done today will be the first people to call out when an American plane hits the wrong house and the family die. They will be the first people to withdraw their support. You know, they urge it on until conflict actually happens. And, you know, I think we have to have a very different view of this.
The limited capability we have and the limited objective we should have in Syria which is to take out ISIS. That is the most legitimate aim. But your country and my country no longer clearly have the desire, the will, or the energy to remain this sort of occupying forces. We don't want to do it. We don't want to own it. Russia does. So they wanted more than us.
BOLLING: I want to bring in Ebony. Ebony, I'm not sure Doug isn't 100 percent. Are we fighting ISIS or are we fighting Bashar al-Assad in Syria?
WILLIAMS: So they --
BOLLING: Because they're fighting each other.
WILLIAMS: They're fighting each other, right. So that's my question and maybe Doug was just gave me an answer. Maybe it's heartbreaking and devastating as what Assad is doing to his people and we feel like we want to be the world's police in the world's humanitarian effort. Perhaps that must be outweighed by the necessary desire to defeat the Islamic state in the joint coalition.
MURRAY: Yes. Which what Assad always wanted to.
BOLLING: Let me ask a Kat. So, are we OK? Libertarian, I don't know what kind of pseudo-conservative libertarian, are we OK to say, let's back out, let's let Russia deal with Assad and ISIS in Syria and then deal with the consequences of a refugee crisis and humanitarian crisis in Syria.
TIMPF: What I'm saying is we're getting to the point where it's an invasion and we need to have that be debated in congress and have that conversation rather than just --
BOLLING: So you don't necessarily have a problem with attacking or fighting in Syria, you just wanted to go through congress.
TIMPF: I think we should go to congress and debate it and talk about it the way the constitution says we're supposed to do which -- so it's not just one person deciding because it's too big of a deal. When you talk about Russia threatening us essentially, you see how big of a deal these things are. There's a reason why it's not just supposed to be one guy and his advisors making these decisions.
BOLLING: I tell you, who doesn't like the idea of a refugee crisis in Syria. The continent of Europe.
MURRAY: Yes. By the way, that's only one component of our crisis. I mean, people are coming to Europe now from sub-Saharan Africa, from across North Africa, the Far East, the Middle East. You go to the camps in the south of Europe, people are from the entire developed world.
SLIWA: But Eric, that's why you have a no-fly zone with the Russians and Americans cooperating to keep flights away so refugees can stay in Syria, so when the civil war is over, they're not coming here, they're not going to Europe, they're staying in Syria.
BOLLING: Listen, Curtis, I'm not --
BOLLING: --a machine or republican who says, let's take out Assad. I'm just not that guy if this something they need to do. We're good to go?
WILLIAMS: Good to go.
BOLLING: Good to go?
BOLLING: Let's go then. Up next, senate republicans racing to bring their Obamacare repeal and replace law to the vote -- to a vote before the 4th of July recess but democrats are deploying every trick in the book they can find to stop is. Stay tuned.
WILLIAMS: Senate republicans kicking it into high gear as they try to repeal and replace Obamacare. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell announcing a vote on the health care bill will likely come next week with plans to release the "Discussion draft of the bill" on Thursday. Now, the push is triggering fierce resistance as you can imagine from democrats with one democratic senator now in pretty hot water after invoking last week's shooting that targeted GOP lawmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, D-CONN.: There's been a lot of coverage of the Russian investigation, obviously focused last week on the devastating shooting here in Washington. Republicans have used all that news as cover to try to move a belt of the senate floor that is deeply unpopular.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Oh, there we go. That knee-jerk reaction to go into our respective corners. Forget about the fact that this man he's talking about, well, the team and certainly specifically Representative Steve Scalise still in the hospital after that shooting. I just find that type of indication repulsive. That aside though, this bill is not very popular so far, it looks like most people would like to know more about it, would like to see more public debate. So, do you think it's important to get it done fast at this point and go forward with the (INAUDIBLE) movement or should the GOP take a step back, Douglas, and see what the people want?
MURRAY: All right. I have to say I am mystified by all the health care debates in this country. The one thing I do know is that this politicization of absolutely everything that's going on in your country and in my own is really disheartening to the general public. I mean, we're really seeing people making accusations like that. You know, just can there be some decency in the debate. You know, can there just be some recognition of what happened. And just endlessly, the politicization of everything. It's one of the saddest developments of our time in my view.
WILLIAMS: I completely agree. Curtis, certainly we see that. That's where we are as a country. I feel like since the shooting, everyone is called for civil discourse for -- to call on our better humanity but we don't seem to be getting any closer to that.
SLIWA: Ebony, Ebony, all I want to do, know what's in the bill. Go back to Nancy Pelosi, remember Obamacare, don't worry, vote for it. You can really --
WILLIAMS: But you got to pass -- no, no, you have to pass this.
SLIWA: Right. But then Speaker Ryan, right? Don't worry about the change, just vote for it. And now all of a sudden, it's is hush-hush, mush-mush. We don't know what the republican senate majority bill will contain. How do you debate what you don't even know exists? Why are we the people, this is -- this is one piece of legislation that affects us all and will affect our children and maybe our children's children. If we don't even get a chance to see a good forensic debate on it, they'll shove it down our throats. Obamacare shove it down our throats. And now they want to -- they want to shove reformed down our throats without us even knowing what's in that bill.
TIMPF: They spent seven years criticizing the democrats for just forcing Obamacare through without really having -- doing it quickly and not worrying about how good the plan is. And the fact that they want to do it for their 4th of July weekend or vacation. Really, really, really? That's very, very annoying and it's not in good faith. I mean, this is something that's very, very important. You need to make sure -- what's more important than doing this quickly is doing it well and doing it perfectly.
This is something every election republicans say Obamacare is disaster, Obamacare is a disaster, that's why we need to be in office, we need to be in office. And once you're in, you're like, I don't know, I kind of want to go on vacation. Come on. Get it together.
TIMPF: Mr. Bolling?
BOLLING: There is literally no defense of a bill that's being released 10 hours before it's going to get voted on. There's no defense of that. However, I will say that's 10 hours that you didn't get under the democrats. That bill was put together behind closed doors.
WILLIAMS: Oh, how nice.
BOLLING: And kick it right out. And they were -- that was thrust upon. So, here's the thing. There is consistency in D.C. They're all swamp creatures, they're all horrible and they're doing the same thing. So, when the democrats did it, republican said you can do that to us and they are now doing it but when the democrats are now saying, hey, you can do that to us. But you did that 10 --
BOLLING: -- sorry, seven years ago when you had Obamacare doing the same thing. All hypocrites in D.C. That's what you're -- that's what you're stuck with.
WILLIAMS: I agree but to Curtis' point, we, the civilians, the people that are so affected by this, we deserve better certainly.
SLIWA: But the new jack is the president, right? Why can't he just say stop? Let's have a few days, let the people see the bill, let's debate it and then let's see if it passes. The president can earn so many brownie points if you would do that.
SLIWA: -- because he is the new jack. He is the guy who's not the politician, right?
WILLIAMS: And he's positioned to learn the lessons of Obamacare's controversy that said, you know what, that didn't really work out so well for the Affordable Care Act. So maybe we can do better.
BOLLING: Here's the problem. There is no feasible way to put together a national health care system this way. I mean, but we have a (INAUDIBLE) a former Brit on set, will tell you the only way you're going to have any -- we are headed toward a single-payer system at some point unfortunately.
TIMPF: Oh, goodness. We've got to scruple --
TIMPF: No. Unfortunately not.
WILLIAMS: OK. Well, we got to go guys. So, we got to circle back with our specialists, Douglas Murray and Curtis Sliwa. Stay with us.
TIMPF: Time to circle back with our specialists, Douglas Murray and Curtis Sliwa. All right. Curtis, I want to ask you a question. How many tracksuits do you have?
SLIWA: How many?
SLIWA: Tracksuits. How dare you call this a tracksuit. I've been shot in this, stabbed in this. This is my red satin jacket, my red beret is found --
TIMPF: So when you got shot in it, you don't buy a new tracksuit?
SLIWA: No, no (INAUDIBLE)
TIMPF: All right. OK. Well, no.
SLIWA: Of course you can't see the blood, right?
TIMPF: You really can't. You really can't.
WILLIAMS: Well, how do you follow that? OK. I'm going to go with this to the --
MURRAY: I don't have any tracksuit.
WILLIAMS: You actually don't look like the type that would have a tracksuit but instead when you came to our green room, I had to do a double take because we have a show here called "Scandal," I'm not sure if you're familiar. And you look awful lot like the actor that plays the president. I'm like, is Fitz joining us then? Have you gotten that?
MURRAY: Is that good?
WILLIAMS: It's great. Yes.
MURRAY: Oh, great. I'll watch the show.
WILLIAMS: You've never heard that before?
MURRAY: Never had.
WILLIAMS: Oh, you look a lot like they had who plays Fitz. Just curious.
MURRAY: I will now.
WILLIAMS: OK. And quick question for Curtis real quick. You gave our producers a long list of specialties that they declined to submit for you. Give us three top specialists from Curtis. We will go.
SLIWA: Four-time world (INAUDIBLE) champion (INAUDIBLE) married four times (INAUDIBLE) shot five times, right to survive. So what do they do?
SLIWA: What in my mouth a mile a minute.
SLIWA: Clearly we missed to vote on that one.
TIMPF: His specialty is getting shot and not dying.
All right. Thank you to our "Fox News Specialists" today, Douglas Murray and Curtis Sliwa. And we thank you all for watching. Make sure to follow us on social media at SpecialistsFNC on Twitter and Facebook. Remember, 5:00 will never be the same. And be sure to catch Fox's continuing coverage, the Georgia and South Carolina's special elections throughout the evening. "Special Report" is next.
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