Biden campaign does damage control after electability takes hit in recent poll

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Biden campaign does damage control after electability takes hit in recent poll

Two new polls do show Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden back on top, but is the damage already done? Reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 27, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Dana Perino along with Emily Compagno, Juan Williams, Pete Hegseth and he's in the mood, it's Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City and this is “The Five.”

Joe Biden's campaign doing some damage control as some doubts creep in about his electability pitch to voters. The concern coming from the former V.P. sliding 13 points in a new poll and into a three-way tie with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.

Biden's campaign is pushing back calling that poll an outlier. Two new polls do show Biden back on top, but is the damage already done. Some on the media is starting to doubt him. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there's a sense that he could falter and then someone else would have to rise.

VAN JONES, CNN HOST: If I were in the Biden camp, I would be very concerned about the fact that right now, he's holding his own in the top three against a whole bunch of other people, but look at that progressive block.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Age-wise, we're used to seeing him not do too well among folks under 50, but the floor pretty much falling out for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Juan, I would imagine that the Biden folks like you guys, there was one poll that showed that the rest of the poll show that he still got this commanding lead.

JUAN WILLIAMS, HOST: Right. So, you get two polls out today that in fact kind of, you know, revert to the norm, which is Biden in the lead. So right now, he is up I think plus seven in the Emerson poll, plus 13 in the Morning Consult political poll, Dana.

And I think this is reassuring for Biden's team. But also, it's interesting to me, the question about young voters and Black voters. Young voters in the internals of the first poll, the Monmouth poll, really did, as you just saw there in that little graphic, I mean, they're just not excited about Joe Biden.

I think when we talk about crowd size with Elizabeth Warren, even Bernie Sanders, you don't see it, and I think you don't see the level of passion. It's more like, yes, I'm settling for them because I think he can beat Trump.

The second part of this, though, as Black voters. And Black voters are the key to Biden's rise and sustained rise over the course of this campaign.

PERINO: And Elizabeth Warren hasn't been able to make some inputs there.

WILLIAMS: Elizabeth Warren -- I think it says 1 percent. And you know, Bernie Sanders has trouble with this. Pete Buttigieg has a terrible trouble with this. So the Black voter and especially looking toward South Carolina, is a lynchpin. And it has now sustained Biden over the course of the entire Democratic primary process as we approach Labor Day.

PERINO: And Greg, one thing about these polls is that because the media likes to have a fight and debate --

GREG GUTFELD, HOST: Yes.

PERINO: -- if there anything that shows that there is some movement, it's amplified.

GUTFELD: Yes, and I think that is why Joe is out of this race because I am a part of the media. I think these polls have a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? And like, so you see that other poll and you're like maybe its happening. And then it gets everybody thinking that the possibility is there.

Now you have, you know, you have a Bernie, Joe, and Liz Warren three way, Dana, which is like a sequel to Cocoon 2, extra loud and cranky. Eearly bird special -- where the hell is Wilford Brimley? I mean, it is. It's getting up there age-wise. But I do think that like, I go back to my theory that you stole from me last week, yes.

Biden needs to get to a number that's larger than Bernie and Liz combined before Bernie or Liz drops out because when one of them drops out, the other one absorbs that person like a strange demon. Bernie and Liz are like the wonder twins, right? They only become powerful if they --

PERINO: Together.

GUTFELD: -- together. And he's got to get like 40. He's got to get that plurality above 40 in order to withstand the wonder twins.

PERINO: And also, what about Elizabeth Warren because she's got all these new crowds? Do you think that Bernie is like -- he's been nice to her so far, but is he --

PETE HEGSETH, HOST: That will end at some point. You're right, they combine as progressives, but it is not clear that every Bernie bro will immediately -- it's such a call to personality. There will be a moment of time by which they hesitate as to which who they go to, but it will be Elizabeth Warren long before Joe Biden.

I think the problem with this poll, even if its an outlier one, is that it affirms a sense that people have that Joe Biden confirmed for everybody. When she sat in front of a tiny crowd and said, you know, you may not like him, but I think you might have to hold your nose and vote for him.

GUTFELD: Yes.

HEGSETH: This is why he waited so long to get in. Does he even want it? Ultimately, he was hiding Biden, not even talking to the press at the beginning of his candidacy because it's been a candidacy without a rationale from the beginning other than I should have run in 2016, but it was Hillary's time, so I guess I'm going to run now. I'm running under the Obama legacy, which the party no longer wants.

GUTFELD: Right.

HEGSETH: So, why am I running other than I can beat Trump except I've lost two steps so I'm not really the best candidate.

PERINO: Now, there are a couple more people that are running. I think that we have this tape that we can play for you. This is -- remember, Beto O'Rourke, he is still in the race. We also got some Bernie Sanders talking about boxing. Let's see -- do we have it here?

OK, let's see. They want me to read it. OK, his campaign is on track. Beto O'Rourke though, he is being mocked for this latest social media post. It was about cooking burgers and I think that people have a lot to say about it. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BETO O'ROURKE, D-TX, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK, so, what do you think about that? I mean --

HEGSETH: Well, I did win the world championship --

PERINO: I know. I was thinking that you would have something.

HEGSETH: -- really thought us today, which we'll hear more about later.

PERINO: Oh, good.

HEGSETH: But if you're cooking -- first of all, where's the grill? Second of all, you don't have time to put the cheese properly in the middle of the hamburger. Then you put it on the English muffin?

GUTFELD: Oh, I love that.

PERINO: I kind of like that, though.

HEGSETH: Has anyone here had cheeseburger on an English muffin?

PERINO: Emily, would you ever eat a hamburger on an English muffin?

EMILY COMPAGNO, HOST: Yes, breakfast time -- at breakfast time.

GUTFELD: Only at breakfast time.

PERINO: There was also Bernie Sanders. Let's get your take on this. He was basically getting in a workout and, Emily, will have you comment on this.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

PERINO: All right, he's got to hit the gym.

COMPAGNO: Yes, I found that painful to watch. I'm not going to lie. Can I make a couple comments though about --

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Wait a second. Why is that -- he's an old guy and he's hitting a bag.

COMPAGNO: Yes, I don't want him to fall in take (ph) a hit. I just, you know, it was a little awkward for me. But if I can make a couple of comments just on the Biden thing, I think that it's becoming quite clear that he is the starter nominee. He is who everyone came out of the gate supporting while they figured out what other candidate was actually who resonated with them.

And regardless of the outlying or not polls kind of showing his ahead and back, there is a trend of decreasing being ahead in this (ph), but we have RealClear Politics trend, 26 points ahead in May and then 15 in early August and now 10.

So, it's clearly decreasing. And interestingly, the head of the Monmouth Institute for polling came out and said, look, yes, I acknowledge that this latest poll shows that he is still ahead in Iowa like it hasn't changed, but, I did not meet one Biden voter that was in any way, shape or form excited about voting for Biden because no one is.

PERINO: They were sort of like doing -- well, now there is excitement around Bill de Blasio. Do you want to see some tape of him?

GUTFELD: Not really. I don't like him.

PERINO: OK, you want to come (ph) on something else?

GUTFELD: No, no. Well, first of all, just about the burger thing. Beto has entered what's called the uncanny valley. Do you know what that is?

HEGSETH: No.

GUTFELD: That's a phenomenon where a robot or a humanoid creature bares a near identical resemblance to a real human and that creates a discomfort in anyone viewing it. It's why like robots that don't look human freak us or they look kind of human. That's what Beto is.

He's almost, but not quite human because he keeps trying to mimic the behaviors of what a human is without quite pulling it off. He might actually be a robot. Now, to --

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. Wait a second.

GUTFELD: He's a robot.

WILLIAMS: Before you say anything more.

GUTFELD: He's a humanoid robot.

WILLIAMS: You guys mock the Democrats every time they do social media or ordinary activity.

GUTFELD: Trump is the best at it.

WILLIAMS: Right? Whether it's drinking beer or hat has Beto done before? Change a tire.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Go to the dentist.

WILLIAMS: Go to the dentist, right. And you say, oh, it's terrible. We all know social media drives politics --

GUTFELD: Yes, but you got to be the master of -- Trump is the master with his --

WILLIAMS: OK, so he's not (inaudible) at grilling. Is this worthy of division?

PERINO: Can I just show you one other thing?

WILLIAMS: Holy smokes.

PERINO: This isn't social media. This is an actual interview from Bill de Blasio. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: If you were elected to be the president, you would be the tallest president ever. Abraham Lincoln currently holds that title. He was 6'4". Your 6'5", right?

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, D-NYC, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's right.

CAMEROTA: How's that height advantage working out for you?

DE BLASIO: Remember, the taller candidate has won every general election for president, but I think three times only. There's only three exceptions in the history of the republic so if you want to get rid of Donald Trump, choose the tallest candidate.

(END VIDEP CLIP)

PERINO: All right, I wanted to go to you on that, Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. All right. We could at least -- what if he said, you know what, every president but one has been white. So, you should have a white president because every president has one except for one, who is white. That's how we are going to look at heightism in the future.

Forty years from now they're going to play that video and they go, "My god, that's how they talked about short people?"

COMPAGNO: That is just awful, right?

WILLIAMS: Do you think you have a self-vested interest in this conversation?

GUTFELD: I'm tired of --

WILLIAMS: I know. I know.

GUTFELD: Juan, you have height privilege.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: You have height privilege.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. Well, let me just say, how come you don't pick on Trump when he's doing stuff, crazy stuff like, oh yes, you know, why don't you have the G7 at my golf tournament and make me rich more?

GUTFELD: That's great because it shows that --

WILLIAMS: I know he's not joking. De Blasio was joking.

GUTFELD: He's bringing money in America.

HEGSETH: I believe that Donald Trump ate the taco ball at Trump Tower and I believe that Donald Trump loves McDonald's.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I know, I believe that.

HEGSETH: I don't believe that Beto O'Rourke actually likes cheeseburgers. He can't fake being --

PERINO: I like the cheeseburger anyway. I love the cheeseburger anyway.

GUTFELD: You know, Beto is a cheeseburger.

PERINO: Oh, really? (ph)

WILLIAMS: But you know, you're making fun of Dana for eating a cheeseburger on --

PERINO: An English muffin.

WILLIAMS: -- an English muffin.

PERINO: I got to run.

PERINO: You got to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: The "New York Times" is being accused of a double standard for saying old tweets should be used against politicians but not journalists? Greg's got that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: What"? Are you talking to me before the monologue? Emily. All right, the "New York Times" is outraged that a Trump affiliated group is exposing old bigoted tweets made by a "Times" staffer. Now, I'd agree with their concern, except that if there are journalists did the same thing to you, they'd call it journalism.

Yes, the media hasn't thought twice about using past words to cancel the careers of anyone outside their own political world. They will use just about anything that by today's standards looks problematic. But it's hypocrisy.

When the "Times" unearths a controversial comment, they call it "scrutinizing people in positions in power." But return the favor, exposing one of their own journalist for anti-Semitic tweets, it's "seeking to harass and embarrass anyone affiliated with a leading news organization."

They pretend their organization hasn't been in a position of power for a century, using it and abusing it as they see fit, making billions pushing an ideology that holds you in disdain.

Meanwhile, "HuffPost" editor Lydia Polgreen says, "this outing of public statements should worry anyone who cares about independent journalism." But why? Surely journalists should welcome this scrutiny, or is this the kind of speaking truth to power that they hate?

So maybe it's time to give the gander what it's been doing to the goose, by targeting the hall monitors with their own words. The media is being taught a lesson about ruining the lives of others for spite and sports. And maybe that forgiveness should be applied to all of us, not just those working at the "Times."

You know, Pete.

HEGSETH: Yes, sir.

GUTFELD: I hate this stuff. I hate going after people for their little tweets and stuff that they did 10 years ago, what they do to comedians or they do to Kevin Hart. He doesn't end up on the Oscars. I think it's gross how they cancel people.

I would rather just have a blanket, let's forgive everybody. But we can only get there if we do this. If we have the journalists feel the pain.

HEGSETH: Yes, I agree. I'm with you all the way. What I said five or 10 years ago, you live a different life. There is context to everything.

GUTFELD: You were terrible back then, Pete.

HEGSETH: I was a horrible, horrible person.

GUTFELD: You're awful.

HEGSETH: And it's out there somewhere.

GUTFELD: I'm unearthing it. I'm unearthing it.

HEGSETH: You probably will. But you are right, until the double standard is gone, you can't get to that zero spot --

GUTFELD: Yes.

HEGSETH: -- where we're all not feigning outrage over things in the past just to dig our political opponents. And this -- the media, the so-called fourth estate -- I love how the give them their -- they always give themselves a fancy nickname to hold up their pillar of society.

They fit framed political issues in our country since they pretended to be an independent journalistic outfit. The "Times" basically invented unbiased journalism or at least attempted to do so. They've been exposed for who they are in the Trump era and even earlier than that.

So, I love this effort. Get every conservative they could find and go in the way back machine and find the tweets and send it right back at those journalists who stand on their moral high ground that pretend like they're the judge and jury of everyone else who jumps in the arena. So, I love it all the way.

GUTFELD: You know, Juan, it seems to me that the "Times'" message is only journalists can ruin lives. We should be able to ruin their lives too.

WILLIAMS: Well, I would agree with you, but I just think the context here is off. I think what we are looking at here is, are you harassing journalists? Are you trying to intimidate journalists?

GUTFELD: Their public tweets.

WILLIAMS: Well, public tweets --

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But the idea is that guess what, Donald Trump, if that's what we're talking about, is in the public arena and he holds a tremendous position of power.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: He's the president of the United States.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: So, if people look at someone who is running even for president, there's a reason for doing this. But if you are saying, oh, you know, I think the "Times" copy editor once said something awful in a bar to a woman. I think that it's a whole different level and I think, you know, I get a lot of nasty e-mails that's intended to intimidate and harass. It's not intended --

GUTFELD: I told you I'd stop.

WILLIAMS: I know, I know. I love you anyway.

HEGSETH: So, reporters never harass. There is the intent of reporter with an ideological bias targeting conservatives is never harassment or is it always journalist?

WILLIAMS: Well -- oh, I see, this is about harassing conservatives and you're looking for a payback.

HEGSETH: Yes, of course.

GUTFELD: No, I said that.

WILLIAMS: I see. Yes, well, I just -- it's hard for me to believe that it's like a limited view of the idea because you had a real argument, which is, well, if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But now it's become an ideological thing and then --

GUTFELD: But no, it's the same thing.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: The goose -- the gander is the conservative and the goose is the liberal and the goose has been goosing gander.

PERINO: And your goose is cooked.

GUTFELD: My goose is cooked.

WILLIAMS: He wants to cook another goose.

GUTFELD: Emily, I'm tired of being goosed. But you know what it is? It's CNN -- remember CNN, they went after that woman because she re-tweeted a Russian bot? Do you remember that?

HEGSETH: I do remember that, yes.

GUTFELD: Do you remember "The Daily Beast" went after some guy who was like a mechanic because he had a meme that he was pushing around. So they do -- they swarm --

PERINO: The guy lost his job.

GUTFELD: Yes, the guy lost his job. Thank you.

COMPAGNO: This is how I feel, that the free press, the concept of it, absolutely is sacred and in this country, it should be absolute, 100 percent. But so should neutrality. So is credibility.

What makes up the free press, journalists -- so we should absolutely hold them accountable because why should I take as credible or neutral the senior political editor of the "New York Times" where democracy dies in darkness, who sent out horribly appalling anti-Semitic tweets. I was so uncomfortable reading this.

So to me, I don't think there's any room for a lack of that culpability, calling someone out, proving to someone and what they did because it's not harassment if you are showing someone what they did, what they published and put out there before that's horribly racist or prejudice.

GUTFELD: It's public.

COMPAGNO: And then they are expecting you to rely on them to accurately cover our government and our politics. To me, that is the disconnect.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's fair, but I would say that what they're doing is putting out journalism. So, you should judge their journalism more so than I think you should judge that.

GUTFELD: And then -- you got too -- that should apply to everyone, Dana, correct?

PERINO: Correct.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

PERINO: I think also this. Everyone gets a choice of what you're going to tweet --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: -- of what you are going to put on social media. So if you're in college or you're about to go to college or if you're a young person that's getting ready to start your career, just think about it.

And if you decide -- you can decide to have something on twitter or Facebook or whatever that doesn't have to do with basically voicing your opinion and join in outrage mobs that are going to come back to hurt you later. You can promote things, you can re-tweet funny things, whatever. You don't have to always comment on every thing.

GUTFELD: But you what the thing is though, what got this guy into trouble and what gets a lot of people into trouble, it's not -- it's under the guise of edgy humor and I totally get it.

PERINO: Yes, I know.

GUTFELD: I get like, you try to say -- the whole point of it being offensive is the joke.

PERINO: Well, do you remember also, I mean, people have lost their entire livelihoods and that's why I say the warning. Remember the young woman that worked for a congressman from Tennessee. She commented that she thought that the outfits that the Obama daughters were wearing weren't appropriate for the Rose Garden --

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: -- and she lost her job. She had to basically, got ran out of town.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think context shifts from time, so the context -- if someone is reading that tweet in two weeks, they're going to get it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Twenty years, forget about it.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: All right. We got to move on. Actress, Lori Loughlin, back in court facing new questions over her legal strategy backfired. The latest, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Two legal stories generating a lot of buzz around town. First up, actress Lori Loughlin and her husband, they're back in court. Now they are facing questions from a judge about their joint defense strategy in the college admission scandal.

The experts are warning this strategy could backfire and they could both end up in prison. The couple has pleaded not guilty, each facing up to 40 years behind bars.

Dana, so they have the same legal representation. But, of course, this could lead to conflict, because one may in fact have information or reason to blame the other in this case.

PERINO: Right. So they have to figure that out. It's interesting there are two actresses that are caught up in this, but there were 51 defendants total.

And about half of them have pled guilty, but this includes hedge fund managers and things like that. So, it wasn't just like these two Hollywood actresses who made different decisions. One that plead guilty, one that plead not guilty.

WILLIAMS: You're talking about Felicity Huffman.

PERINO: Felicity Huffman, but I mean, there are 51 defendants so it was kind of a widespread problem.

WILLIAMS: Right. What do you think, Pete?

HEGSETH: All I want to see is equal justice, right? You want to see the people who have the lawyers and the money and the access treated the same way as everybody else.

PERINO: Yes.

HEGSETH: So, they're going to have their day in court. They can choose their legal defense.

GUTFELD: I don't. What's the point of being famous if you can't get special treatment, Pete?

HEGSETH: Well, that is true.

GUTFELD: Anyway, sorry. That's my only point of view.

WILLIAMS: Pete, you can't just -- you can't just --

HEGSETH: Sometimes I'd just give into Greg.

WILLIAMS: All right, Emily?

COMPAGNO: A quick note about the conflict. So, we have 28 defendants that are headed to trial as of this moment. Nine have already faced the same thing in court, which is that they go to court, prosecutors say look, your attorneys might have a conflict of interest. Every single one said we still want to stay with the same attorneys.

Lori and her husband, they each have their own attorneys, in addition to their joint ones and Mossimo's attorney also represents two other defendants. It's frankly, not that big of a deal. But moving forward, I think the bigger thing is Felicity Huffman's sentencing, which is September 13th I think --

GUTFELD: Yes.

COMPAGNO: -- maybe the 16th -- the 13th, when she gets sentenced, that's going to be huge.

WILLIAMS: All right. Up next, Johnson & Johnson vowing to appeal the ruling in a landlord -- landmark I should say -- opioid lawsuit. An Oklahoma judge yesterday ordering the drug maker to pay over $500 million, saying the company helped to fuel the state's opioid crisis.

Although some are cheering that decision, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, they are saying Johnson & Johnson is being used as a "scapegoat" for the scourge of addiction and that the ruling now creates a slippery slope for more product liability lawsuits. What's the problem with holding people accountable if, in fact, they were pushing opioids and leading people to become addicts and not killing people?

GUTFELD: I think this is not a logical explanation of the problem. You know, conservatives don't punish legal gun owners for illegal gun use. But that's what we're doing with pain medications and regarding (inaudible). It's inconsistent. You don't punish patients with medical problems because people are abusing the drug.

And we have to be reminded, the media does a really bad job on the story. We have to remind ourselves of the fact when they are pushing those overdose numbers, primarily due to a mixing of drugs. They are mixing opioids with other drugs. More people have died from other common medications than pure prescribed opioids.

This isn't a prescription problem. It is street problems driven by elicit fentanyl coming from China. So America is left with a moral question that Trump has some how pushed on us which is would you favor your cheap goods, your cheaper iPhones and have 60 to 100,000 people die, or would you rather have higher goods and stop the influx of fentanyl into our country?

That is a very moral question because human beings actually tend to ignore foreign tragedy or tragedy for temporary or goods that are near them. So, it forces them to pay the piper, so to speak.

WILLIAMS: So, Emily, I'm going to respond to Greg with a question. We know what Sackler family and Purdue Pharma. They have settled some of these lawsuits and the reason is that there was evidence that they were pushing these drugs aggressively on doctors, without indicating the degree to which they were addicted. They were saying, oh, this is less addictive than other drugs and it turns out it was pretty addictive.

COMPAGNO: Yes. Purdue and TIVA (ph) settled respectively without admitting culpability. The ruling regarding Johnson & Johnson out of Oklahoma obviously found them specifically culpable and the core of the judge's ruling is that they had an unbranded and branded marketing campaign that was totally at fault.

They said the judge ruled that the branded element was the sales guys going to doctors that they knew already prescribed opioids. They were pill mills. People were lined up out the door. They provided faulty data and said look A, pain management is being under treated and B, there is no risks associated with over prescribing opioids.

And then the unbranded part is the fact that Johnson & Johnson led a concerted effort to literally which happened changed medicinal policy. That's why pain management is now the fifth vital sign and also changed government regulations so that hospitals would push those prescriptions.

So, all of these Big Pharmas are facing different results, but I think this is a good one albeit an interesting legal question of whether it arises under the Public Nuisance rubric.

GUTFELD: Everything she said is wrong.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. Do you want your opioid now?

GUTFELD: I've already had one.

WILLIAMS: You had. All right. So, Pete is this a good path to justice.

HEGSETH: Listen, I think litigation nation is out of control in our country, so oftentimes you reemphasize that over the rule of law and how it should be applied in particular cases where your patients are supposed to only be able to obtain these drugs with prescriptions through government licensed pharmacies and doctors who are supposed to be paying attention to that. So, there's more responsibility than just the company.

I mean Johnson & Johnson constitutes per that article less than 1 percent of Oklahoma's prescription opioid market. How much do you pay when you represent only 1 percent. So, I do think, and they apply - all the approved - all the drugs are approved and had the warning labels on them. There are processes that were violated in ways in which they maneuvered around that. But I do think you can go too far, and you can start to stint what these drug providers have done for good people responsibly.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: So, Dana, this is interesting point Pete raises because one of the arguments here was that many folks anticipated the judge was going to have a billion dollar fine.

PERINO: Well, they were asking the judge to approve a $17 billion payout.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: 48 states are asking for the same thing. I think one of the concerns is, we have - there is a problem that some prescription drugs in America are very, very expensive. The only way to get that down is for more innovation to happen. But it takes a lot of money on the front end in order to find that innovation. Believe me if they could figure out a way to alleviate pain for people without having to do opioids and it would be cost effective, they would do it because we have a free market.

So, in some ways I think we're barking up the wrong tree and trying to find money. OK. So, what are you going to do with $572 million in order to help treat people? Are you going to try to get the drugs off the streets? Are you going to help people don't mix the drugs and then if they do mix the drugs then who is at fault, and who's going to pay that price?

And there is also just a deeper problem here that why do people feel like they need to have these drugs. Why are they doing it in a way that harms them. Because then it is hurting other people because doctors are now saying oh god, I don't think that I should do that, here try to take a Tylenol 3 or take two Advil in the morning.

WILLIAMS: When you say barking up the wrong tree, you mean we should be doing pharmaceutical innovation?

PERINO: Absolutely. We should be encouraging more research and development for some sort of pain relief that doesn't have these addictive problems.

GUTFELD: And the thing is, these drugs are the consequence of innovation. The reason why something gets abused is that it works. Nobody abuses things that don't work, right. So, this actually has a direct benefit to patients with cancer or other pain, chronic pain conditions. It works.

You can't just say smoke pot, because pot isn't going to work. You can't give him, try the ibuprofen, it doesn't work.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but morphine works, but it'll--

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUTFELD: Got to take a prescription.

WILLIAMS: Up next, a Washington Post columnist--

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER RUBIN, WASHINTON POST COLUMNIST: Selectively in essence burn down the Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: A Washington Post columnist under fire for as you just heard saying that break up the part about Trump supporters. Next on “The Five.”

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEGSETH: While the anti-Trump outrage machine spinning out of control still. Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin ramping up the rhetoric with this outrageous attack. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIN: It's not only that Trump has to lose, but that all his enablers have to lose. They have to. We have to collectively in essence burn down the Republican Party. We have to level them because if there are survivors if there are people who weather this storm, they will do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEGSETH: Burn it down. And that's not the end of the absurdity. Olive Garden forced to deny its funding Trump's re-election after real fake news spread on Twitter calling for a boycott of the restaurant chain. Dana, I'll start with you. So, you hear this expression which is actually more common.

I mean, it's outrageous but it's more common than we think. I also hear it from conservatives who say you know the Left today is so Far Left we have irreconcilable differences. Are we in a place where both sides say either one wins and the other loses, there is no room for compromise?

PERINO: Well, sort of feels like it right now. Right. But the interesting thing about the Republican Party like its demise has been written about over and over again and it's actually probably the strongest that it's been in quite a while.

President Trump has a 94 percent approval rating with the Republicans. So, to me I feel like you could wish it away, you could hope that it goes away, but it's not going away. I think there's a lot of wasted energy on that.

HEGSETH: Juan, burn it down. I mean where does that fall on your spectrum of acceptability as far as rhetoric toward not just the President, but the folks that support him.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't like the rhetoric because I think it's you know hyperbole and it can be interpreted in the way that you're taking it as literal and I don't think it's literal.

HEGSETH: I don't think it is literal, but it's an us against them. They're the enemy, we win, they lose.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say what's interesting to me is that Jennifer Rubin is a conservative. She's a never Trump-er conservative. But remember, you've got a lot of people who fit in this category I mean you can go through Bill Kristol and now we have Bill Weld and others running, I mean John Kasich, the former Governor of Ohio.

So, the question is the current GOP has no appetite for ever confronting Donald Trump about anything. We're seeing a record number of retirements on the Republican side right now. So, you get somebody saying, well, so what happens after Trump leaves us, the party just fall apart. Where are the people who will say oh Mr. President you know we're a free trade party? We've always been pro-immigration, we're anti-big deficits and you're not in keeping with Republican ideology here.

HEGSETH: But Greg, you mentioned a lot of people and then went on to mention four people.

PERINO: Yes.

HEGSETH: Who are now very much outliers--

WILLIAMS: Correct.

HEGSETH: And named Jennifer Rubin as a conservative.

GUTFELD: Yes. I have yet to hear anything conservative come from her mouth. We have to point out the obvious, she is undergoing a public unraveling in which the Washington Post is enabling. It is a part. You can see it, it's a personal thing. Her ego is not allowing her to admit the emotional damage that has occurred to her since Trump got elected and she's like a friend of yours who just entered - got out of a bad breakup or lost a job and they're blocked by their own refusal to move on.

She reminds, I mean it's people like her and Walsh and Kristol and Fram (ph), they all have an emotional vendetta that they need to let go. Now to the other stuff about the Olive Garden. You've got to ask what kind of person is attracted to this type of outrage. You need to - if you find yourself tweeting about Olive Garden you need something positive in your life because there is something missing. There is something missing. If you find value in just boycotting a restaurant that's run by people that employs people that have kids and they don't really - they aren't political at all.

Your life is empty. It's actually a positive thing to realize that your life is empty because then you can do something about it.

HEGSETH: And have you had the breadsticks and the bottom of the soup.

PERINO: The salad.

HEGSETH: Olive Garden and the salad?

GUTFELD: See the thing is I'm boycotting Olive Garden for the carbs.

HEGSETH: You're missing out. Emily either one grab bag Jennifer Rubin or Olive Garden.

COMPAGNO: OK, I'll start with her. I just thought it was so unfortunate that she was given a platform to say those frankly ridiculous things, right. Especially calling the Republican Party she said was essentially for an anti-government platform that everyone would suffer if we limited the government. And I was a federal attorney for a long time, and I find that so disheartening that she wouldn't get into the actual points of the argument, which is that the government is bloated and it's rife with bureaucracy and inefficiency and fraud.

So, I saw people suffering every day, all day because of that bloated bureaucracy, not because we would take away programs that people depend on, Ben Stifles there sell freedom which the Republican Party is for. And she talks about the radicalism, yes, that's what happens when you get away from tyranny and found this country on principles of liberty and self- empowerment.

And then on the Olive Garden I thought that was interesting. I learned that 60 percent of people have not participated in one of those boycotts. And that number hasn't--

PERINO: Only 60?

COMPAGNO: Yes. And that number hasn't changed though for the last couple of years. So, as this has been this hot topic of like you know boycott the Trump stuff and everything like, but he hasn't - yes.

GUTFELD: It comes it goes in cycles.

HEGSETH: And the thing about the boycott is the Olive Garden case, it's totally fake new.

GUTFELD: Yes.

HEGSETH: No money--

GUTFELD: There should be--

HEGSETH: But they get targeted.

GUTFELD: If you're spreading a rumor that damages somebody that should be - you should be liable.

PERINO: And people that support President Trump should go eat at Olive Garden just to--

WILLIAMS: You know what, point a finger at the social media people, you put out a charge like that, it's hard for anybody to ever hear that it's wrong.

GUTFELD: That's true.

HEGSETH: We're telling you it's wrong, but I'm telling you the sausage soup is right. Up next, how the selfie obsession could ruin your next vacation.

GUTFELD: I haven't been to an Olive Garden in years.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COMPAGNO: If you are thinking about unplugging for your next vacation, you probably should leave your phone at home or at least not have it out the entire time. Turns out our selfie obsession is ruining top tourist destinations.

At Louvre Paris, social media loving visitors are now given under a minute to take photos of the Mona Lisa to cut down on overcrowding and other top tourist spots overrun with Instagram influencers are banning people outright from snapping pictures. OK. Dana.

PERINO: OK

GUTFELD: it's pronounced Louvre.

WILLIAMS: Thanks for correcting.

PERINO: Nobody needs an entire minute to take a picture of the Mona Lisa. And in fact, you don't even need to take a picture of the Mona Lisa. You go there to actually see it and you can buy a picture postcard of it if you want to, but you don't. Don't take up people's time taking a picture at the museum.

GUTFELD: Mona Lisa was the first selfie. Did you know that? She did it herself. That's why it's so bad.

WILLIAMS: Isn't that right?

PERINO: It's Leonardo Da Vinci.

GUTFELD: That was a pseudonym.

PERINO: An outfit.

GUTFELD: Yes. Women back weren't allowed to paint. So, they had to take male names. Same thing with Shakespeare. His real name was Gladys Thompson.

COMPAGNO: So, Greg, in Seattle, there was this super rare antiquated tree or whatever, there is a little plaque that was put in front.

GUTFELD: Right.

COMPAGNO: You know celebrating it. So, then everyone went there to take their selfie and ended up like killing the trees.

GUTFELD: The tree had a good run.

COMPAGNO: So, it ruins everything.

GUTFELD: Look Emily, the tree had a good run. Trees lived too long. Let's face it. They hang out. They never go anywhere. They're probably so tired of the view. He was probably happy.

COMPAGNO: All right. So, Pete, do you feel like selfie culture--

HEGSETH: I agree Greg,

COMPAGNO: Ruining everything and that's why everyone is traveling everywhere there is no more real curiosities.

HEGSETH: Pretty much like they're not going to see the Mona Lisa. They're going to take a picture of themselves in front of Mona Lisa.

PERINO: To show people that they took--

HEGSETH: I remember the realization when I thought I would go on vacation to take pictures of the landscape. But those are the pictures I never looked at--

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Right.

HEGSETH: It's like so I always wanted a person in the picture. But the picture was still always about the beautiful view. It's turned into now I want a picture of myself with a little bit of beautiful view behind me. And that seems like it--

GUTFELD: Did you ever take a picture somewhere where there is a crowd and you get it home and you see somebody in the crowd that you know.

PERINO: No.

COMPAGNO: No.

PERINO: But you see people doing not great things like the picture.

GUTFELD: Like what.

PERINO: Tell you in the commercial break. Yes.

COMPAGNO: Well, that's like--

HEGSETH: That sounds like a One More Thing.

COMPAGNO: The dragon.

WILLIAMS: I think you're onto it, Pete, because I think people do this because they want public affirmation for the selfie. In other words, people say, man, you were in Paris and you went to the Louvre and all that.

HEGSETH: You look great.

PERINO: So, you had a great vacation.

WILLIAMS: But I think it's you know they're not present in the moment. They're not looking at the picture, not experiencing it. And I think on a personal basis, they're not with the person they're with in terms of the relationship or thinking this is a very fulfilling moment for me. None of that, this is all about the selfie. And I think it's spread from the millennials now. Everybody else is doing it and it's destructive.

COMPAGNO: So, quick question for you guys.

HEGSETH: I agree.

COMPAGNO: So, now we have Italy levying fines if you sit on the Spanish Steps. We have rules limiting it a minute at the Mona Lisa. Is that over regulation or is that what we need.

PERINO: No, I think they should ban phones when you go into a museum. Look at the exhibits. Do not take pictures.

HEGSETH: I want to know why there are Spanish Steps in Italy. I don't know.

WILLIAMS: All right. If I say anything - if I say anything, he's going to punch me. I'm out.

COMPAGNO: I mean I would gladly give up going to see some type of national or natural treasure if it meant that it would preserve it, like growing up I went to go every year and we loved it. It was amazing. And now it's basically getting destroyed. So, I feel like to preserve.

GUTFELD: Yosemite overrated.

COMPAGNO: Oh my God, Greg.

GUTFELD: Overrated, it's named after a cartoon.

COMPAGNO: You are literally horrible. OK. One More Thing is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for One More Thing. I'm going to go first. So, park rangers at Great Smoky Mountains National Park. They got this unexpected handwritten letter with a heart shaped rock from a former visitor. Turns out there is this young girl named Carina and she wrote to them and said, I visited Tom Branch Falls inside the park, and I loved it so much. She took the rock as a keepsake. She wants to have it as a souvenir.

But here's the thing. She didn't know that removing property from a national park is a federal offense.

GUTFELD: Arrest her.

PERINO: And she wanted to do the right thing and the park appreciated her actions and that can help other people learn something. Did you know that Emily?

COMPAGNO: Yes. What is the phrase, leave whatever?

GUTFELD: Yes. They should have got the address and gone to her house and arrest her in front of her family.

PERINO: OK. You get to go next.

GUTFELD: Thank you. Time for this. You're going to like this. Animals Are Great. OK. A Belgian Malinois--

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Is one of the most amazing police dogs, check that. They're trained. They're the most athletic dogs in the world and they could basically hop over everything including buildings, they could hop over buildings. They're intelligent athletic much like Pete Hegseth. And they could grab things, they can grab anything that run away from them. They can grab them like cats and children's, so if you see a child running away, they'll go get it for you.

PERINO: That's if the dog associates with you.

HEGSETH: Truly remarkable footage.

GUTFELD: Thank you. You're welcome.

PERINO: Wait, you are really, really kissing up to him today, I don't know what that's--

HEGSETH: I think he really brought his A game today.

PERINO: All right, Juan. Juan, you go next.

WILLIAMS: You can ask me later. Take a look at this folk. Pretty incredible.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

This great dancer in the bright yellow tracksuit fired up the stage last night at the MTV Video Music Awards. She was invited by Missy Elliott to perform one of Elliott's big hits Work It. Now there is an incredible story here for a hint. Take a look at this video from 2002.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

Yes, that's the same dancer Allison Stoner. In the second video. She's just nine-years-old. And that you see there dancing in Missy Elliott's video for the song Work It. That set her on the road for an entertainment career. She has become an actress, singer, dancer, choreographer. She and Missy Elliott remain friends to this day, it's a wonderful story because entertainment can be a cutthroat business. And to have friends and keep friends, friends and talent do count.

PERINO: Indeed. Pay it forward. That's why we all really say around--

GUTFELD: She could really work it.

PERINO: Pete.

HEGSETH: Well, you mentioned nine-years-old when I was nine-years-old, I always wanted to be a world champion.

PERINO: Yes.

HEGSETH: Never worked out on the basketball court or on the football field, but this morning on Fox & Friends, I became the world champion Fox & Friends grilling champion, greatest of the greatest.

GUTFELD: What was your meat.

HEGSETH: We could all cook whatever we wanted for the entire week. Everyone went with fish and vegan dishes and chicken and I said what does America want.

PERINO: Ridiculous. Cheeseburger.

HEGSETH: America wants a cheeseburger. And I put a little extra seasoning on it. Montreal seasoning is the secret extra fat USDA prime meat.

GUTFELD: Nothing from Canada.

HEGSETH: An extra cheese. It is Canadian. That's one flaw in my recipe. The viewers voted and, in a landslide, I'm now a champion.

PERINO: You always go with the burger, not the vegan.

COMPAGNO: Congratulations, Pete.

HEGSETH: Thank you very much.

PERINO: Emily.

COMPAGNO: Congratulations. All right you guys and yesterday I had such a special day. I had the honor of attending one of my best friend Daniel Peterson's retirement ceremony from the United States Marine Corps MARSOC, the elite unit out of North Carolina.

And speaking of nine-years-old, I mean he wanted to be a Marine. Growing up since before we were nine. I learned more about the military than most adults because of him through his 23-year career with the United States Marine Corps. He went through 11 deployments and really protected our freedom every day. So, congratulations my dear friend. Thank you for your service. I'm proud of you and it was an honor to watch your dream unfold for the last 30 years.

WILLIAMS: That's wonderful. What is he going to do now?

HEGSETH: God bless him.

COMPAGNO: He's actually going to work as a civilian for the same unit, so he's not going very far.

PERINO: He's going to still serve. Indeed.

COMPAGNO: Yes.

PERINO: All right. Never miss an episode of “The Five.” "Special Report" is up next.

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