Ayaan Hirsi Ali publishes remarks she planned for Brandeis

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 1, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ANDREA TANTAROS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Andrea Tantaros, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino, and Tom Shillue.

It's 5:00 in New York City. And this is "The Five."


TANTAROS: On Tuesday, Brandeis University revoked its invitation to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, an outspoken critic of Islam, to receive an honorary degree at its commencement next month.

Well, Brandeis caved to pressure to Muslim groups like CAIR. CAIR is continuing to attack Ali, but now, students on the campus of Brandeis are lashing out. Here are some of the students very disappointed in the university's decision.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CAIR is an organization that doesn't seem to enjoy hearing competing philosophies and perspectives. And academia is meant to serve as the hub of enlightenment, as the video where we have the exchange of ideas. To go ahead and rescind its invitation to Ms. Hirsi Ali is despicable. Perhaps our administration at Brandeis doesn't seem to care or respect the First Amendments, but we as students do.


TANTAROS: All right. Bob, so you heard for the first time actual students at Brandeis unhappy with the university's decision. Why do you think other universities haven't seized on the opportunity to invite her or honor her? I would if I were --

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I think that's a very good point. The thing I want to know is how many people are as outraged as this student and they should be. The idea I'm still baffled by what Brandeis did, of all things -- a school with long history of studies in Judaism. If anybody has been oppressed from Jews (ph), and by radical Islamists, and the idea -- if you listen to what she said she was going to say, we read her speech, and she said the model of Brandeis University is truth even on to its inner most parts. Well, that's -- if that's your motto, what she's doing is telling the truth, and you just for any -- explain yourselves. Just explain yourselves. Be clear, and you are ducking and you are looking ridiculous and you are looking like cowards.

TANTAORS: Dana, this continues to be a story because today, "The Wall Street Journal" excerpts from what she would have said at Brandeis. And one line that I don't see how anyone can disagree with this -- she said, "I stand before you who is someone not afraid to ask difficult questions about women's rights and girls' basic rights globally." What can intelligentsia or the academics disagree on that?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think that CAIR ought to rethink its communications strategy and its policies, because what they have done is taken a university that no one pretty much heard of, with a woman that is going to get an award that no one has heard of, and they have turned it into a multi-day story and now, we all know Hirsi Ali's name, and we should.

I think it's amazing how this backfired on CAIR. Now, it's all across the board. Everyone knows this story.

I also think. I'm curious about the question you asked about why doesn't another university pick it up, and they might, but I think it's interesting from a university standpoint that Brandeis is actually -- it's not being seen as one to itself. It is being seen as representative of the university culture and the whole left.

BECKEL: The whole left.

PERINO: The whole left. You know what I mean, though, all the universities, like they are all hands-off of Hirsi Ali. Why? I think that that's an interesting thing. And maybe you'll see someone come out next week. But from her standpoint, I think she has actually achieved more through being the target of CAIR's ire than she was if she was going to get the award and no one would have heard about it.

TANTAROS: What do you think it is, Eric? Do you think it is fear?
Is it liberalism and maybe sympathy for Islam and for CAIR or is it just plain fear?

BECKEL: No. I -- it's -- I think it's two fold. I think Brandeis, they folded because they were afraid of being called Islamophobic. So, they did because CAIR was pushing on them.

I need to point out something. CAIR -- yesterday, we're talking about CAIR. You know, they act like the Muslim mafia. Two minutes after we call them out for their heavy-handed tactics and their intimidating universities and businesses, I get an email from that idiot, Ibrahim Hooper, the chief spokesman for CAIR, saying, why do you continue to lie?

Why do I continue to lie? I'm just -- I literally pulled up the facts from Brandeis in 2007 where they said they were concerned about a comment you made in 2007. That's all they did. I said, I think it has little to do with what she said and a lot to do with CAIR's heavy-handed tactics, mob-like tactics on the university. So, Ibrahim Hooper, you can stop lying, how's that?

TANTAROS: Tom, in her remarks, she cites so many examples of how Islam treats women. Denigrates them, disrespects them and she also quotes the motto of Brandeis University, which is ironically truth even into its inner most parts. What about her remarks are untrue?

TOM SHILLUE, CO-HOST: Well, that's the thing is -- and more people are going to see these than they ever would have if she just spoke at the university. But I think, Dana, the interesting is, I don't think CAIR cares about the PR win on this particular story. They want to put the word out there so universities know not to hire people like this to speak at all.

If they can scare them because -- who is more cowardly than university administration and because of this controversy, Brandeis looks dumb so other colleges will never invite her or anyone controversial to their campus.

BECKEL: Tom, why would CAIR -- why would these punks be threatening?
I mean, they don't represent any major group of any kind, unless they are threatening with jihad or something. But the fact is, look, she said something else in the speech she was going to give. She said, 10 miles from here, bombs went off at the Boston marathon. People were maimed and killed. Did CAIR ever open their mouths and say anything about it? Of course, they didn't. Because they were cowardly punks who probably agreed with it.

Now, if you want to keep coming at us, coming at us all you want.
The better is because Dana made a point, we know more about this woman now than ever would have been known before. Brandeis University would have never gotten much publicity about this.

PERINO: The other thing is CAIR really knows how to work the system.
They've figured the universities. The universities will cave. It's interesting to me that the leader of the university, the woman who put out the statement -- does she not sense any sort of discomfort inside as she's actually delivering this statement? Are they so blind to the criticism, that they don't even recognize it?

If I could just mention one other thing, you ask about -- where are the other universities? Where are the women's groups?

BOLLING: That's it.

PERINO: Because this is another thing that Ali writes about in that op-ed today. She talked about, 20 years ago, not even the bleakest pessimist would have anticipated all that has gone wrong in the part of the world where I grew up, after so many victories for feminism and the West, no one could have predicted that women's basic human rights would actually be reduced in so many countries as the 20th century gave away to the 21st.

What have we done in the last several years in the United States? We have -- just this week, we complained about the dry cleaning bills of women compared to men in the United States? I actually feel as an educated woman in America that I have a responsibility to help women around the world to achieve at least the basic rights so that they too then hopefully one day can debate the gender gap of paying for your dry cleaning bill.

TANTAROS: Well, and also talked a lot about -- not just equal pay but access to contraception and that was the entire campaign theme of this last administration, right? We've been talking about women's sex lives.
All we do is focus on women's sex lives and how they need to have choices, reproductive choices and have this freedom.

And this woman -- I asked this yesterday, where are -- not just now, Dana -- but Hollywood celebrities, like Sandra Fluke, who has become a celebrity, Lena Dunham. This woman, if you want the real truth, suffered genital mutilation. Her pleasure is going. Where are the women in Hollywood rallying for her sexual pleasure? That's what I would like to know.

PERINO: Where's the mini-series?

BOLLING: Where are all the liberal Democrats who are squarely behind Sandra Fluke a year and a half ago, saying, look, this is a Republican war on women? Well, OK, so now here we are, we're calling out CAIR, we're calling out Brandeis University. We're on this side of the aisle saying this has got to stop. This is wrong.

Where are they? Why aren't they --

BECKEL: Excuse me for a second. I stand right here with you.

BOLLING: But you, Bob --

BECKEL: There's a lot of liberals who are upset about this.


BOLLING: Wait, wait. Who? Who?

BECKEL: Not only now. Listen -- let me give you another example.
Obama should have said something about this.

PERINO: He should have called her.

BOLLING: That's what I'm -- exactly what I just said.


BOLLING: I'm sorry, Dana.

PERINO: I was going to say, President Obama should have call her, not Sandra Fluke.

BECKEL: Well, he certainly should have called her. But he certainly had an opportunity, she has an opportunity, maybe he's going to do this.
But if I were in administration right now, I would stand up and say this because first of all they are always under this question about how much they favor Muslims and Islamists and all that. This is a way to get it dealt with very quickly. Slam these guys, slam CAIR.

BOLLING: Who? Who are you talking about?

BECKEL: I'm talking about Obama.

BOLLING: Thank you.


TANTAROS: Let me get Tom in here.

Tom, there is also an administration saying they are in favor of gay rights. Brandeis University has said, I'm sorry, but this woman does not resonate with Brandeis' core values.

I would ask Brandeis, do you agree, do you support a religion that is anti gay? No?

SHILLUE: Well, that's -- I mean, this is the contradiction of everyone on the left, when they are confronted with people like her. She's such a good spokesman. She's lived it, you know? She's like she can walk the walk, she can talk the talk. And she -- she's been on the seen for years now, and you never see her.

You know, the media does not want to get her story out there, because she is so articulate and she's powerful of a speaker. If you've ever seen her speak, it's amazing.

BECKEL: Let me add (ph) another point, I haven't seen many Republicans stand up on Capitol Hill and say anything about this either. I mean, I think all -- both political parties --

SHILLUE: It is true. That is true. I mean, everyone is uncomfortable.

PERINO: She doesn't make everyone uncomfortable. You know what should make CAIR uncomfortable? I think we should all start calling them for what they are -- racist. As soon as you call them racist, then everybody will start to coming down on them.

TANTAROS: Very quickly --

BOLLING: We call them intolerant. They are -- first of all, the Islamists, not the Muslim religion, but the Islamist radicalism, the most intolerant people on the planet by far, bar none.

TANTAROS: Very quickly, you asked a question, who could possibly attack her? Isn't she the perfect spokeswoman to tell the story of oppression?

Dana, you talked about CAIR's communications strategy? CAIR keeps responding. Listen to this sound bite of the leader of CAIR attacking Ali now.



IBRAHIM HOOPER, CAIR: We're used to having these kind of hate-filled smears, but again 20 years, the most public Muslim organization in the nation, please find something that CAIR has done or said in those 20 years that you find either extreme, objectionable, intolerant, whatever. Every day, we're defending the Constitution from people like Hirsi Ali who would change the Constitution so that Muslims wouldn't have civil rights.


BECKEL: He better understand --


TANTAROS: Here's an example of something offensive.

BECKEL: He better understand we haven't heard you and CAIR say anything positive or against radical Islamists. You sit there and say, we're attacking you all the time. Well, get out and attack the people that are causing this thing, and you don't do it because you're a coward.

PERINO: Megyn should have called Dr. Ablow on that one, because -- to find out if that guy is nuts because he sounds so bizarre.

I'm going to give one other piece of PR advice, when you have a microphone on, you don't have to yell.

TANTAROS: Also, is it good for them to be attacking the victim, the woman?

BOLLING: Yes, it's so unheard of. If you look at some of the things she was calling, she was calling attention to some of the atrocities against Muslim women, why are they on her side? I don't get it.

BECKEL: Exactly, exactly right.

BOLLING: So, she has an opinion about the bigger picture of the Muslim faith. Actually, she says Islam. She doesn't say Islam. She says Islam.

So, she has an opinion and they are very offended by it, but they can't separate the two. They can never separate the issues. If she has a negative opinion about Islam, it doesn't matter if women are getting beaten or mutilated, they don't care.

BECKEL: If CAIR doesn't come up and side with her, it means they agree to the people who opposed.

TANTAROS: Didn't they just, with that sound bite, Tom, and I'll give you the final word -- didn't they just prove our point that they're anti- woman by that comment?

SHILLUE: Yes. Well, I mean, the thing is, they can't defend a lot of what happens in Islam, so they just want to ignore it. And that's why -
- I mean, a lot of people just want this issue to go away. So, you will not hear the Obama administration speak for her. They want it to go away.

BECKEL: Get some guts CAIR. Get some guts.

TANTAROS: All right. Next, new developments on that standoff between a rancher and the feds after they rounded up his cattle on public land. That's coming up on "The Five."


BOLLING: This is a FOX News alert.

For more than two decades, Cliven Bundy of Nevada has refused to pay the government for hundreds of his cattle to graze on federal land. He says his family has worked on the land long before the feds start regulating it to protect tortoises. This week, the stand-off has come to a head. Heavily armed feds have surrounded his ranch and began confiscating his cattle and even used the taser on his son who was fighting the round off.

Moments ago, the Bundy family called on supporters to rally at their ranch tomorrow morning.

Here's one local farmer's reaction to the force being used by the feds.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can throw an army of men around there.
Literally with sniper rifles on guys just like you are, on people just like you are. Somehow, they feel like they've got the right that they can drop a damn a tripod on the ground and set a sniper rifle on them, so if you cross the line, they can put a bullet in you.

Who the hell -- who the hell is the man behind the trigger? I want to know. Which one of us is he going to shoot?


BOLLING: OK, Dana, let me start with you. There are a lot of tentacles to this story. A lot of them, right? So, you have state versus federal. You have Mr. Bundy saying his family has been on the land for years before the feds came along. The fed is now using the tortoise excuse, endangered species.

Where do you stand on this?

TANTAROS: I think it's extremely complicated. I grew up with a family that continues to utilize BLM, grazing opportunities. And Bob knows a lot about it as well. It's something that the rural America understands a lot more than anybody sitting on any big city on East Coast can understand. It seems a little incongruous to say, why can't he just pay the fine? I mean, doesn't that make sense?

The problem is, when it comes to a lot of these issues, there isn't a lot of common sense. I do think he is in arrears for 20 years for these fines. You and I probably wouldn't be able to get away with that with the IRS if it came down to it. But I also believe that it shows that central planning does not work well, OK?

So, the states -- those farmers, those ranchers know how to use the land and utilize the land better than anybody else. They are environmentalists and conservationists. It's not that they don't care about tortoise, but they also realize that if we're going to have a cattle industry in America, you're going to have to have a place to be able to do it.

I hope that the government finds some sort of common sense way to deescalate the situation so that people can calm down and I understand why they were upset and I would and the last thing -- I was going to say is, to get a crowd like that, and we just showed on that town hall on weekday afternoon, that means that people are up in arms, almost literally over this issue.

BOLLING: Hey, Bob, a lot of memories coming back, Waco and Ruby Ridge, right?

BECKEL: Yes, the thing that worries me about this is Dana is exactly right. This is not about a tortoise. This goes back to the fundamental issue about who owns the land and in the West, it has always been a controversial issue. It has stirred emotions for decades and decades when particular feds own 85 percent of the state of Nevada.

So I don't think it's the tortoise as much as it is the fact that it is a land issue and who has right to the land.

Now --

BOLLING: Can I just -- but the feds are saying it is a tortoise issue.

BECKEL: Well, yes, they are saying it is, but the fact is you could graze his cows in a lot of different places without the tortoise.

BOLLING: Or they can move the tortoise.

BECKEL: Well, I don't -- but leaving that aside, there's a bigger issue here. What worries me is Dana pointed it out, you got a crowd like that, on a small town like that on an afternoon, people out there working very hard.

And now, you got the militia coming in. I do not deny that these people feel strongly about what their position on this. But you're getting a mixture here that is so potentially dangerous. With snipers on
(INAUDIBLE) snipers, I see Ruby Ridge and WACO coming right back and it would be a tragedy --

BOLLING: By the way, the governor of the state says he thinks the Bureau of Land Management is wrong in this case and they should start to work with the rancher.

Andrea, there's a big solar plant in the Nevada desert, by the way where the tortoises also are and they moved the tortoises out of the way.
It's scorching the birds in the Nevada desert, because it's Google and they are paying a lot of money for it, they seem to work around the tortoise issue.

TANTAROS: Right, picking and choosing.


TANTAROS: Right? So, whenever there's federal land, you have the grazers want to use the land to graze, the snowmobilers want to snow- mobile, the hunters want to hunt, and the enviros just don't want it used for anything except maybe green energy.

If I were the Land Management Agency, it would step up quickly and try and deescalate this violence, because the situation is spiraling out of control, don't make it about the turtle, which is such a dumb excuse.
Approach this man and say, let's work with you. He is, as Dana points out,
20 years, he has not paid his grazing fees.

And again, I said this yesterday and I took some heat for it, but you can't just not pay your grazing fees if you don't agree with the law. It may be a silly law but get the law changed. I mean there's a law saying I can't go take a cow and make it my own personal cheeseburger, right? I can't just do that. He does have to follow the law and pay the grazing fees as dumb as it is.


But, Bob, I want you to think about something for a second. What about Native Americans? There is some issues about giving them back land that they felt they were on before the feds took over some of the land?

Tom, go ahead, your thoughts on where this conflict, where it goes?

SHILLUE: Listen, when someone is getting tased, I'm almost always on the side on the person being tased. When there's bureaucrats involved, I'm always on the side of the guy on the big cowboy hat.

This guy looks like my dad. My dad lives in Arizona, and he spends most of his day walking around his property and ordering people off his property. And there's no people there. He just says it's the phantom people. He loves walking around his land and ordering people off.

But I looked at all the issue here, and this guy -- he's not paying his rent. He seems a little goofy. I mean, in all these instances, obviously, the government was wrong in Waco. The government was wrong at Ruby Ridge, except the people in those situations were also pretty goofy.

So, what the government should do is just back off. I don't know what they are doing. Just walk away. I mean, there's nothing there. Just leave that land alone for a while, it will deescalate itself. Am I right?

PERINO: Maybe what they should do is crowd fund for grazing fees.
Where is the innovation?

BOLLING: Instead of bring your guns, crowd fund it.

PERINO: Listen -- all of us, every restaurant that we go to we benefit from a very robust cattle industry in America, beef industry.
Anywhere you go, you can get an expensive steak in New York, and you can get something at Chipotle, and you go over McDonald's. Everywhere, that meat has to come from somewhere.

SHILLUE: Out there, if you eat that steak, they have those big 20- pound steaks, if you eat it, it's free. Do you ever see the --


PERINO: I used to do that every Saturday.

TANTAROS: Maybe he should just practice voter intimidation rights or run guns to Mexico, or be an illegal immigrant -- maybe they would leave him alone.

BECKEL: This goes back to the issue of Indian lands. He is not right about being on this land before the feds. This was owned by the federal government a lot longer than he has been out there, or his family has been out there. But that doesn't mitigate the issue as far as they're concerned in the west. That land is federal land. They believe --


BOLLING: I'm not sure about that. I think the family was there before even BLM was even --

BECKEL: No, forget BLM. I'm talking about feds owning that land -- the federal government has owned that land since we got it from whoever we got it from.

BOLLING: We're going to have to leave it there. It's a hot debate.
Before we go, we want to elaborate that we here at "The Five" hope and pray for a peaceful resolution to that stand off.

BECKEL: Hear, hear.

BOLLING: Coming up, President O takes the stage at Al Sharpton's National Action Network's conference. That's next on "The Five."


PERINO: On Wednesday, at Al Sharpton's National Action Network's conference, Attorney General Eric Holder accused House Republicans of this.


ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The last five years have been defined by significant strides and by lasting reforms even in the face, even in the face of unprecedented, unwarranted, ugly and divisive adversity. What attorney general has ever had had to deal with that kind of treatment?
What president has ever to deal with that kind of treatment?


PERINO: Today, President Obama took the stage at the annual event, where he claimed that the gains since the Civil Rights Act are under attack.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've got to be vigilant to secure the gains we've made, but also to make more gains in the future. That's the meaning of these last 50 years since the Civil Rights Act was passed, because across the country right now, there are well- organized and well-funded efforts to undo these gains.


PERINO: All right. So, we're going to have a robust discussion here. I want to start with Bob.

I'm starting to worry, if all opposition to President Obama is considered to be based on race and racism, that it either chills the ability for people to feel free to speak in the country or it actually hardens people against, and like making it worse.

BECKEL: I don't agree with your premise. I do not think that all the opposition is considered to be racism.

PERINO: Well, that's not my premise. I'm suggesting that's what they are saying.

BECKEL: I understand that. And I don't believe they believe that.

There is a segment of this country and I've said this yesterday, if we believe racism is dead in this country, we're kidding ourselves. And I think that Eric Holder has gotten a rougher treatment up there than most attorney -- I've -- I've seen a lot of attorney generals testify up there.
They have given him a very, very -- and have. Now, you can argue a lot of things he hasn't done on, you know, Fast and Furious and the rest -- but I think some of this -- some of the -- if anybody believes that the people who voted against Barack Obama, a percentage of them were not racists, they are kidding themselves.

TANTAROS: But you are calling the House Republicans and Senate Republicans racists.

BECKEL: No, I am not.

TANTAROS: You said the way that he was treated when he testified by members of Congress. Are you saying Republicans members of Congress are racist?

BECKEL: No. I'm saying they have got very bad manners.

TANTAROS: It's very different than what they are alluding.


PERINO: -- when Attorney General Al Gonzales testified in front of Congress, I would encourage the attorney general to go back and look at that tape.

Can we listen to Charlie Rangel and then we'll get one comment?


REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If there is anyone that believes that the color of the president is not an issue with those people who adamantly oppose them, they are not realistic. A group, they call themselves, the Tea Party, whenever this group gets together against Obama, the Confederate flag is there with them.


PERINO: Tom, by that logic, when Charlie Rangel and many others opposed President Bush on his policies, was that because they were racist against President Bush?

SHILLUE: It's unbelievable. It almost seems silly to hear this thing over and over and over again. But I don't even why anyone shows up to Al Sharpton's National Action Network. Is there anyone in history more ridiculous that has had presidents show up to his meeting than Al Sharpton?
I mean, there's no one ever in the history of the United States. Al Sharpton has been discredited over and over. We should have got rid of him back when he did the Tawana Brawley thing. But he's been around. He won't leave. It's unbelievable.

But this race thing is -- you know, at this point, I can't believe they are still saying it. And, Bob, I might even agree with you that there may be some racism left in America, but who cares? Anyone who does or says anything racist is always punished for it immediately. So why do we even talk about it anymore?

BECKEL: Well, of course, we got to care about it. I mean, you know


BECKEL: When a black man walks down the street here in a suit and cross the street and all of a sudden, you hear the click, I would call the click, everybody lock their car doors? That is wrong.

SHILLUE: I hear that all the time. I lock my car door all the time.
So, the thing is -- when I get in my car, the first thing --

PERINO: So does everybody.

SHILLUE: Well, that's the thing, is that if a black guy happens to be walking by my car and I click it every time, he's going to think it's me because you keep telling them that I'm the guy who clicks my car --

PERINO: Let me get Eric in here because I haven't had a chance yet.

I just wonder if playing the race card so promiscuously actually drains the power of calling somebody a racist.

BOLLING: This is brilliant politics. He's not playing the race card for any other reason other than diverting attention from what really matters to American people. Gallup came out wit their poll. Their number one and number two things on Americans' minds are jobs and the economy -- I'm sorry, economy and jobs.

You know what the very single solitary last issue that Americans are concerned about? Race issues. But if you do this, you can be divisive, you can go step on a podium, you can get the right talking about it, us -- we just spent eight minutes talking about the National Action Network. Who gives a crap about National Action Network?

BECKEL: A lot of African-Americans do.

BOLLING: But if Obama shows up to Al Sharpton's ridiculous network, then we talk about it and it diverts the attention that 63 percent labor participation rate is the lowest --

PERINO: I had a theory, Bob. Can I run a theory by you guys real quick? Yes, we're going to go longer. Just kidding, Porter.

OK. Bob, the five stages of grief -- denial, anger, and bargaining, depression. So, in our national shame after slavery, we had finally gone through those stages. It felt to me like we were sort of getting to the acceptance phase of grief, but now, after this administration, I feel like we've been yanked back to the anger stage.

BECKEL: This -- the people first of all, Al Sharpton's network is not something insignificant. You may think he's insignificant. These are black people in this country who believe firmly that racism is embedded in very much parts of their lives, and jobs is one of the top of their issues too I might add. But don't estimate how strongly they feel about this.


BOLLING: They should be talking about jobs. You know where the highest unemployment? Yes. No, the highest unemployment rate and the worse performer over the last six years have been in the black community.

TANTAROS: How could the president of the United States and Eric Holder who have the two most high powered jobs and the most high powered jobs in the United States of America feel somehow that they have been aggrieved and that this is a priority? It's the last issue of importance to Americans, other than the second last, which is climate change, yet they are doubling down on it. And "The Washington Post" reported yesterday, they are going to focus on it in 2014.

Now, earlier this year, the Supreme Court voted down Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act saying that states that were considered to be racist in the past were no longer racist. They didn't need that Eric Holder supervision at the Department of Justice. They are fighting this every step of the way.

Bob, there may be very kernels of racism, and racism against whites -
- let's not forget that. Is this a priority? Why did they divide at the end of the term? This is a national issue for the country.

BECKEL: To the African-American community, it's nothing tiny about it. It is still a major issue. You ask any guy -- any black guy or black woman who gets pulled over by a cop in a white neighborhood and ask if they don't think that's about racism.

TANTAROS: Ginning up the base exercise?

BECKEL: This is about racism.

BOLLING: Diverting attention from the real issue.


BOLLING: The real problem in the black community isn't racism, Bob.
It's jobs and unemployment.

BECKEL: Oh, you can't --

PERINO: I think he's right.

OK. Ahead, has CBS declared war on America's heartland by picking Stephen Colbert to replace David Letterman? That's what Rush Limbaugh says, coming up next on "The Five."

BECKEL: Gee, another Rush SOT.


SHILLUE: When David Letterman announced his retirement last week, speculation swirled about who would replace him at "The Late Show."
Yesterday, CBS announced it will be Comedy Central's Stephen Colbert.
Here's him reacting to the news.


STEPHEN COLBERT, TV HOST/COMEDIAN: This man has influenced every host who came after him and even a few who came before him, he's that good, and I got to tell you -- I do not envy whoever they try to put in that chair. Those are some huge shoes to fill, and some really big pants.


SHILLUE: Many are calling the move a gamble while Rush Limbaugh says CBS's decision is an affront to Middle America.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: CBS has just three declared war on the heartland of America. There is no unity on this hire. They hired a partisan so-called comedian to run a comedy show.


SHILLUE: So-called comedian, that's me.

Does Rush have a point? Take a look at some of these clips.


COLBERT: I agree with Wayne LaPierre, you sir are (EXPLETIVE
DELETED) in the head.

The Tea Party reaches out to kids. I assume with help for spelling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mitt is the right guy for the job.

COLBERT: Now, if you are a multimillionaire entertainer supporting the candidacy of a wealthy financier from Massachusetts, you might no longer be a red neck.



BECKEL: Can I just make an announcement to our audience? That we now have -- we're now being called the six from here on because Rush Limbaugh -- has anybody ever come up with anything that is not a Rush Limbaugh --

SHILLUE: I think Rush Limbaugh was playing a Colbert-like character.
I don't think he can be serious. I mean, everyone knows Stephen Colbert is funny, even if you don't agree with him politically. The show has a lot of energy. He's funny.

Dana, do you agree?

PERINO: Yes. A couple of years ago, I did a roast with a few other folks, including Rahm Emanuel, of Stephen Colbert, and during our roasting him, he wrote a sketch that was hilarious and I think he is very funny.

On the political side of things, I don't see how he would be any different than David Letterman when it comes to the war on Middle America, if that's what Rush wants to call it --

SHILLUE: He was less confrontational than David Letterman.

PERINO: Probably.

By all accounts, he's a very nice guy.

BOLLING: Well, don't forget, he's going to do -- I'm sorry. That he's going to do "The Late Show", as Stephen Colbert, and not in character, right?


BOLLING: So, where's he going to do? He may become the new David Letterman?

SHILLUE: He knows what he has to do. I can't say anything bad about Jimmy Fallon. He is the best guy of the late night, and he is competing against Jimmy Fallon.

BOLLING: We have to agree, he is no Jimmy Fallon. You know what, though? He is not going to best Jimmy Fallon. He's got "The Tonight Show"
and he's great and he's an all around entertainer.

But Colbert is -- he is a song and dance man. He is a great improviser. And he is a great interviewer. If you look at all those old daily shows, before he was the Stephen Colbert character, he's one of the best interviewers. He gets in and he gets under their skin. He's excellent.

Bob, do you agree with me?

BECKEL: I do agree with that. And I don't understand this. Dana made a point. Letterman has been accused of being a liberal from the beginning of time he took that seat. Every late night host, it was actually Jay Leno as far as I can tell.

SHILLUE: I think Letterman used to be conservative. I used to
(INAUDIBLE) for him back in "The Late Night" days, I think he turned in George W. Bush. He didn't like him and that's when he flipped.

PERINO: Racist.

BECKEL: Whatever he did, he is still perceived to be a liberal. So, I don't know what Rush is talking about.

SHILLUE: Andrea, I love watching Colbert because I agree with the Colbert character half the time. I think it's fun to watch because sometimes when he's in character, he makes good points.

TANTAROS: He is very funny. I think he's very witty, very funny.
It's a big gamble though because he does have a personality that can be perceived -- as Rush said -- in the heartland of America, maybe as aloof, sarcastic. Sometimes, he comes across as mean.

We can laugh it. Maybe other people won't like it. I think he's a little more aloof and mean and sarcastic than David Letterman, even though they are both overtly liberal. I still think Colbert is a little overtly liberal and if I was Jimmy Fallon, I would be very shrewd and I would moderate a little bit and emulate Jay Leno and try and be humorous for humor's sake and take shots at politicians and politics, not just tow maybe the liberal comedy --

SHILLUE: Well, they'll have a big audience now in the network, and I think Colbert is going to play more to the center in politics.


SHILLUE: He's good.

PERINO: Why don't they get tagged with not hiring a woman? This is gender gap --

SHILLUE: Oh, they're going to play that. They will play that.

PERINO: On late night comedy.

SHILLUE: Comedy Central might do something. We'll see.

Coming up, the face of ObamaCare, a fiasco, has finally resigned.
Five years into her tumultuous tenure, Kathleen Sebelius is out. We'll fill you in on the fall-out when we return.


BECKEL: Today Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius stepped down. Critic have been calling for her resignation after ObamaCare's rocky rollout six months ago. Here's President Obama talking about his health-care law and the secretary earlier today.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, we launched the first quarter enrollment period with the problems with HealthCare.gov, and they were problems, but under Kathleen's leadership, her team at HHS turned the corner, got it fixed, got the job done, and the final score speaks for itself. And that's because of the woman standing next to me here today and we are proud of her for that.


BECKEL: Well, Eric, you've -- you've wanted her head for several years now. You got it. Are you happy?

BOLLING: No, no, I'm not happy someone got fired -- put it this way, she's walking away, right? She could be the most incompetent person in the whole administration, maybe in the last ten years.

Think about what she did. She -- President Obama is giving her -- he's doing a nice thing there. He's patting her on the back. Hopefully, she finds something else.

She spent $715 million. All she had to do was rollout ObamaCare. She blew it. Epic fail. My concern is why are they -- why is she walking away? A lot of people are saying because the Jon Stewart interview, she bungled that. Remember, she didn't know how many had signed up. And then that other radio interview the other day, where she was just a deer in the headlights.

So maybe there was a parting of the ways in the administration.
President Obama says I'll pat you on the back but boy, what an incompetent, as Greg would say, boob, that she is...

BECKEL: Dana, let me as, you. She was the been taking too much of the heat for that?

PERINO: Maybe in some ways. She is not the architect of ObamaCare.
President Obama and Speaker Pelosi own that problem, and they're not going to be able to escape that by having Secretary Seblius leave.

In some ways they did well by her to let her stay to try to turn it around. But the fact that she didn't know how bad it was going to be and that she didn't tell the president, I bet that he was irritated about that from the beginning.

Earlier this week, when he had the big -- late last week, the big victory lap of the sign-ups, even though we don't know what the real numbers are, they did not get to stand with the president, and I think that was probably a signal to her that she was no longer welcome there.

BECKEL: That was a pretty good send off, though. I mean, he said some nice things about her, right?

TANTAROS: Yes, but she's going to be his human shield. Right? She has been his human shield. She's got to be psyched to leave.

SHILLUE: Yes, I think she wanted to leave a long time ago. They said You take somebody out of your comedy routine, right?

SHILLUE: The thing is, I never -- I was not going to harp on Sebelius or the Web site. I kept saying to people, "Don't complain about the Web site. It's going to get fixed. Don't complain about Sebelius. She's going to be gone.


SHILLUE: It's always the law that we don't like. So stop saying that it was -- I don't care about a bad rollout. I wanted a bad rollout. You know what I mean?

I was like -- you know what Rush Limbaugh said, "I want them to fail."

That's what I wanted about the rollout. I wanted to see a disaster, so it was fine. But I didn't harp on the disaster. I want to harp on the law. It's like, OK, get it in order. Get the Web site fixed, and now we can show you what we don't like about the law.

BECKEL: OK. We got to get out of here. Let me just say, I wish her well. I think she's done a very, very, very -- she took on a very difficult job with a policy that was controversial, and I think she leaves with her head held high.

"One More Thing" is up next. Sorry.


TANTAROS: It's time now for "One More Thing," and this is what we call shoe news. Hillary Clinton was giving a speech earlier in the west, and she had something thrown at her, a little reminiscent of the George W.
Bush incident. Take a look.


HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It's already recycling about two -- What was that a bat? Was that a bat? Is that somebody throwing something at me? Is that part of Cirque du Soleil?


TANTAROS: She actually handled it very well. But this is the point.
Who would throw a shoe? I would never waste money on anyone, let alone Hillary Clinton, on one of my...

BECKEL: Particularly your shoes.

TANTAROS: Particularly my shoes. But who did it better? Look. This is a flash back of GBW. Who has better reflexes? Go.

I think GWB. Cat-like reflexes -- Eric.

BOLLING: That was a tough one.

OK. Tomorrow, listen, if you never -- if you only watch one "Cashin'
In," and if you only DVR one "Cashin' In," do this one. Save it for the archives, show the kids. We have Donald Trump. He's going to talk about President Obama, President Putin.

PERINO: In the flesh?

BOLLING: In the flesh. We have Rand Paul in the flesh.

PERINO: Not a phoner?

BOLLING: Not a phoner. Rand Paul is going to talk about arming pilots in the cockpits to make sure we don't have any more Malaysian flights like that. And Sarah Palin is going to go there with Al Sharpton and Hillary Clinton.

BECKEL: Got all your pals at one time.

BOLLING: All at once.

TANTAROS: Ms. Perino.

PERINO: OK, I had a fun time yesterday. I wasn't here at "The Five,"
but I did go to the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. I did the park lecture. The Park family sponsors so many students there. They were wonderful. The panel. The professor, Danielle Crease was there.

Chris Helfin was a student. I really loved meeting him. And Nicole Perato (ph). And I have to give a shout-out to Floyd, who took me back and forth to the airport. He likes the show. He said he's going to be watching tonight. So Floyd, I didn't forget. There you go, your shout- out.

TANTAROS: Very nice. Bob.

BECKEL: Forty-four years ago on this date, Apollo 13 took off successfully from Cape Canaveral. And then two days later, an oxygen tank blew on the space ship. And they had to crawl into the lunar module in order to survive. They went around the moon. Those of you who probably don't remember very well, I remember it quite well. For eight or nine days the country was transfixed. In one of most amazing engineering feats known to man, they brought these people back safely. God bless them and God bless NASA.

TANTAROS: Very true. Tom.

SHILLUE: Great viral video. This came from Brazil's GloboTV. It was a piece on street crimes, and this is what happened.




TANTAROS: Weren't they trying to say how crime had gone down?

SHILLUE: Yes. It's bad enough when you get caught by a hidden camera. This guy robbed someone when there's a TV camera in his face. But he wasn't successful. He didn't get the necklace, and look at that reporter. He was on it, wasn't he?

TANTAROS: He was interviewing her about how crime had gone down.

BECKEL: They've got the World Cup and the Olympics coming there. I mean, big.

TANTAROS: We've got to go, because we want to give a very special thank you to one of our interns. Marcie Mason has been with us all semester. Today's her last day, so we wanted to say a big thank you and good luck to Marcie.

PERINO: Thank you, Marcie;

TANTAROS: Marcie, we're going to miss you. We'll see you back here on Monday. Have a great weekend, everybody.

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