Are there real fears of a recession?

close

Video

Are there real fears of a recession?

Dow plunges 550 points, erasing gains for 2018; Former Obama chief economist Austan Goolsbee and former Reagan economic adviser Art Laffer weigh in.

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Marth MacCallum," November 20, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Thank you, Bret. Always an interesting moment there at the White House. And tonight, on that theme, the president pardons the turkey. But says that they may not be so lucky in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Even though peas and carrots have received a presidential pardon, I have warned them that House Democrats are likely to issue them both subpoenas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That's a pretty good line as he leaves for Thanksgiving with a full plate, giving reporters quite a bit to chew on, on his way out the door. The plunging market, the changing rules on asylum at the border.  Talking about the Ninth Circuit calling it patently unfair.

He also said the troops are proud to be on the border for Thanksgiving, despite some of the misgivings that people have had. And also that Saudi Arabia is a partner we need.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: They're buying hundreds of billions of dollars' worth of things from this country. I'm not going to destroy the world economy. And I'm not going to destroy the economy for our country by being foolish with Saudi Arabia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you agree with Larry Kudlow that we're not heading to a recession?

TRUMP: No, I think we're doing great. I mean, as a country, we're doing great.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The asylum policy has been put on hold.

TRUMP: Well, you go to the Ninth Circuit and it's a disgrace, people should not be allowed to immediately run to this very friendly circuit and file their case. It's a disgrace what happens with the Ninth Circuit. We will win that case in the Supreme Court --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You deployed the U.S. troops to the border who aren't spending the Thanksgiving holiday with their families.

TRUMP: Oh, you don't worry about the Thanksgiving, these are tough people.  They know what they're doing and they are great. And they've done a great job. You're so worried about the Thanksgiving holiday for them. They are so proud to be representing our country.

The written answers to the witch hunt that's been going on forever, no collusion, no nothing. They've been finished, finish them yesterday. The lawyers have them. I assume they'll turn them into a day or soon. Ivanka can handle herself.

These are all in the historical records. There was no deletion whatsoever.  Unlike Hillary Clinton who deleted 33,000 e-mails. Unlike Hillary Clinton who had a server in the basement, Ivanka didn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, I can' assume who you think deserves to be first place. Who do you think deserves to be second place as Time Person of the Year?

TRUMP: I can't imagine anybody else other than Trump. Can you imagine anybody other than Trump? Have a good time, everybody. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: Can you imagine? All right, tonight, the best of the Wall Street Journal Editorial Board weighs in. Bill McGurn, Dan Henninger, and Mary O'Grady turn out. Great to have all of you with us.

So, there's a lot there that the president put out on the plate. Mary, let me start with you with regard to Khashoggi. The president basically said we cannot change this relationship based on this horrific act. And the CIA, saying that they do believe that the prince knew about this.

MARY O'GRADY, EDITORIAL BOARD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes. How unfortunate that he's focusing on the sale of weapons as if -- you know, the economics of it is the primary importance.

Really what matters is the relationship we have with Saudi Arabia is very important. I mean, they are a counterbalance in the -- in the Middle East to -- you know, some of our biggest enemies, and we need to maintain that relationship.

But the importance of the maintaining the relationship is not the money we're making off of selling arms. And I think if he had expressed that a little bit differently, people would understand.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, it seems, Dan, that relationships with Middle East countries is often a choice of -- that the least worst option of the people that you can align yourself with.

DANIEL HENNINGER, DEPUTY EDITOR, EDITORIAL PAGE, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes, that's true. But I think all presidents have to acknowledge that America has a unique role in the world, and represents certain values and norms that we cannot -- that we have to uphold.

One thinks of Ronald Reagan's policy towards the Soviet Union and communism an utterly hard-nosed policy, but it was partnered with a sense of American idealism. And I think, the president here -- President Trump runs the risk of isolating himself and trying to pursue a difficult foreign policy agenda.

Very few members of Congress are going to be able to ally themselves with a kind of statement that he issued on Saudi Arabia today.

MACCALLUM: Let's take a look at Mitt Romney's statement. Sort of maybe showing his hand a little bit of the kind of Mitt Romney that we will see and hear from as he becomes a Senator. "The President and Secretary of State's Khashoggi statements to date are inconsistent with an enduring foreign policy, international interest, with basic human rights, and with American greatness," he says. Bill.

BILL MCGURN, EDITORIAL BOARD, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Yes. Look, I wouldn't awarded it as Mary says the way he did base on our economic interest. It is an interest. We have more interests in the Middle East against Iran.  And look, the man was brutally murdered. It's unforgivable. Prompt with some knowledge at the top, whether it was a crown prince or not, we don't know for certain.

And it's going to be a long road back for them. But we do need them in the region, and I think we should point out that some of the people that are pushing on the other side. Iran got rid of an FBI agent, murdering an FBI agent, right?

Has put IEDs out there that blow up American servicemen. I mean, there's Erdogan's put a lot of people in jail, and so forth. So, there are a lot of bad people out there. And they have to what -- I think what we need is a Nixon moment at which we had after Tiananmen Square when President Nixon went over to China and said, you guys screwed up badly.

And they took it because he was a friend. There's got to be a former ambassador or national security adviser or something that they trust to tell them.

MACCALLUM: Right.

MCGURN: You can't keep coming up with these cockamamie excuses.

MACCALLUM: All right, with regard to some of these other stories that he just sort of brushed across there, Ivanka's e-mails sort of gives us an indication of the many different places that Democrats are likely to go as they start to plumb through these investigations. Your reaction to that one, Mary.

O'GRADY: I think that one is sort of a non-event. I mean, I think it's a good talking point. And, of course, she's a good target for President Trump's adversaries. But, you know, basically, she turned over the e- mails, and -- you know, he sort of invited trouble by putting her in a -- in a position in the White House. But, I don't think it's that big a deal.  I really think that one is going to sort of go by the by.

MACCALLUM: What about the asylum situation, and what he said about the Ninth Circuit Court?

HENNINGER: I think the president has a point there that people do run to the Ninth Circuit with these things and they're talking about this court overturning his Asylum ban.

It wasn't really a ban, Martha. What he was saying is that they have to come through ports of entry into the United States rather than simply coming across the border illegally. And yet, you've got the Democrats ACLU running to the courts when they have no alternative or no plan B for what we're supposed to do with these people coming towards the U.S. border.

So, it defaults to the president to have to deal with this. Now, of course, we're going to litigate it. So, I think the president is on pretty firm ground there.

MACCALLUM: He's on -- he's on good ground there.

HENNINGER: Yes.

MACCALLUM: With regard to another story that popped up this afternoon, Marcia Fudge who was really the only specific person, Bill, who had put her name out there. Said I'm going to think about it over Thanksgiving.

I don't know what happened behind closed doors. But now, she has decided that she is not going to challenge Nancy Pelosi. Do you think they made some kind of deal?

Look, I always thought Nancy Pelosi was going to -- was going to win this with experience. She didn't get to the top by, by being weak. And the problem they had is they never had someone in the first place.

What the Democrats wanted to do was have her step down, and then they would go in. But it tells you that they're afraid of her to go through. So, what she was going to do is look at how many votes she needed, whipped the count, find out how many votes she was short. And then, make whatever deal she needed to make.

What's interesting is about the latest objections most of the people in the beginning that said I'm not going to support her for speaker where people like Conor Lamb from Pennsylvania, campaigning as a moderate.

But some of the complaints are now coming from the Democratic Left about Mrs. Pelosi. So, it will be interesting. But I think, if I had to bet my House, I would bet it on Mrs. Pelosi.

MACCALLUM: Yes. Another story that broke late in the day was this suggestion that the President had floated the idea with Don McGahn that he wanted to prosecute Hillary Clinton and James Comey. What do you think about that, Mary?

O'GRADY: Well, I mean, first of all, I don't think we really know what -- what's gone on there. But I think it would be sort of red meat for his adversaries if he if he tries to do that. So, I don't know.

I think, again, it's kind of -- I think right now, what's happening is both sides are sort of staking out their territory. And -- you know, there's a question about whether they're going to be able to work together.

And I think if the Democrats decide that this is going to be all-out war we're not going to let him achieve anything. I think that, that is going to be a tactical and a strategic error on their part. Because people elected them, they don't like Donald Trump.

I agree with that, but they really want some answers on things like health care, and the stagnation of wages which is partly caused by the high cost of health care. And I think also the immigration problem.

MACCALLUM: Quick thought on the Mueller handwritten questions. President says it's done, it was easy for me. I had no problem answering those questions. There's no, no collusion.

HENNINGER: Yes, and I think that's probably right that there is no collusion, yet. Recall that last week, the president in a tweet storm attacked and really assaulted Robert Mueller and his investigation.

I think that kind of puts pressure on Mueller to sort of come up with something other than try to withdrawing from this, as many people think they should wind it down.

But the president is now talking about prosecuting James Comey or prosecuting Hillary Clinton. I think the country has prosecution fatigue at this point.

MACCALLUM: Right.

HENNINGER: That we just as well if the president would step back, let Mueller produce his report. If there's nothing there, then the public will see that, and let's move on to this Mary suggests, getting something done rather than just investigating.

MACCALLUM: All right, with here, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. Thank you very much. Great to see you as always.

So, next, the debate over where the economy will go from here with the Dow raising all of its gains for 2018. But the president's top economic adviser, says he's not buying it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think we're doing great. I mean, as a country, we're doing great. Our unemployment is at a record low. You look at all of the different statistics, I think your tech stocks have some problems but that will come back. But no, I think we're going to do very well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KUDLOW, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: Keep the faith. It's a -- it's a very strong economy. The economy -- the basic economy has reawakened, and it's going to stay there. I mean, I'm reading some of the weirdest stuff. How recession is around the corner, nonsense. My personal view, our administration's view, recession is so far in the distance, I can't see it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: That was White House chief economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, trying to calm some of the nation's jitters today as the Dow plunged more than 550 points. And with that, went all of the gains for 2018 just like the S&P 500.

Now, stocks are still up remarkably since President Trump was first elected but now real concerns mount over the Trump economy and the possibility of a trade war with China.

Here are now Dr. Art Laffer who served on President Ronald Reagan's economic policy advisory board, also an economic adviser to the Trump campaign, and author of Trumponomics so he's a fan of the program and Austan Goolsbee, President Obama's former Chief Economist. Welcome gentlemen. Good to have both of you with us today.

ART LAFFER, FORMER ECONOMIC ADVISOR OF PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN: Thank you.

So you know, you look at some of these numbers, the Dow is up more than 6,000 points since President Trump was elected, the GDP is very strong up 3.5 percent and 4.2 percent in the last quarters and yet Austan, let me start with you, you do see this weakness in the market largely led by tech stocks which a lot of people think were quite overvalued.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, FORMER CHIEF ECONOMIST OF PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Well, wait a minute. The main thing driving -- there may be that overvalue in the stock market but the main thing driving the market into the ground is fear that Donald Trump is starting a trade war between the two biggest economies of the world. Art and I are our old friends and we are -- while we disagree on many things, we are going to 100 percent agree that a trade war and tariffs are not a good idea.

MACCALLUM: Art?

LAFFER: He's completely correct. By the way old friends, I'm old he's young but we both University of Chicago, both Yale, both -- we have a share a lot of background Austan and I do and I agree with him totally. A trade war is not good for the economy. In fact, it's really horrible. But I do think the other policies in this administration are great and I think trade will turn out to be good. The tax cuts are the best I've seen in first term of any president. The deregulation is phenomenal, I think Powell at the Fed is doing a great job --

MACCALLUM: Some people think he's raised interface too much and that that's one of the problems that you're seeing here. So you're seeing a flight into the fixed income market and out of stocks because people think that's a better investment at this point.

LAFFER: No, you've got to have the market rate set by the market not by some Fed Chairman, frankly. And at 20 percent interest rates which we had when we came into office, that's way too high it killed the housing market.  When the rates are too low, it kills the funds going into the housing market. We had the eight worst years in new housing starts per 10,000 population in the last eight years, it was just terrible. And we need to have markets rate set by the market, not by the Fed. And I think that's a great move what Powell is doing, moving the back up to normal. That's the way it should be done.

But the rest of the policies, I mean, Martha, seriously, there's nothing out there that I see that would cause this economy to move into a recession or a depression or anything else. I think Larry Kudlow is exactly correct on this. And I just hope the trade stuff moves faster and we get a free trade deal right away. I mean the -- President has told me personally he doesn't want to use tariffs. That's the only leverage he has to get them to negotiate and cut tariffs and cut barriers. But Austan is completely correct that a trade war would be catastrophic.

MACCALLUM: All right, so if there's a solution that relieves the trade war concern, Austan, do the fundamentals still look good to you here?

GOOLSBEE: Well, look I I hope that the market would return but I don't know. You know, I would say this is the caution, it was on this program, Martha, and I told you with Donald Trump earlier in the year got up to brag about how much the stock market was up, I said that is a very risky thing to do because if you accept the judgment of the stock market in the positive, then you have to accept the judgment in the negative. This -- the tax cut has been in place starting January 1, 2018. The stock market is down since the -- since the tax cut came into effect. And I think they better -- they better pay attention and stop bragging about that because --

MACCALLUM: You got enormous consumer confidence numbers, you have more people entering the workforce, you know, when you look --

GOOLSBEE: So further strong --

MACCALLUM: I got a list of really positive overall environmental economic figures here. Art, I'm going to give you the last word.

LAFFER: Well, the last word is the markets been flat. But this is exactly what happened to the Reagan situation. We had the market trove just before the boom of 83, and that's what I expect will happen here on 2019 when all of this starts steeping and coming to fruition. I think you're going to see a very good economy for a long period of time and I'm very excited with the numbers that are showing now.

MACCALLUM: We will see who's right. Thank you very much, gentlemen.

LAFFER: Thank you. Austan, good seeing you.

GOOLSBEE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Great to see both of you tonight.

LAFFER: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So it is an all-too-familiar story of he-said-she-said and there are rarely any winners. Now education secretary Betsy DeVos is trying to restore due process to American campuses. Up next, a parent whose son was accused of rape and kicked out of his school only to then have that decision overturned and whether or not these new rules will prevent that from happening again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a former Democratic operative and you're talking about deposing the President. That sounds political.

MICHAEL AVENATTI, STORMY DANIEL'S LAWYER: No it sounds righteous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How so?

AVENATTI: Because my client is credible, she's telling the truth.

My understanding is that Dr. Ford has already passed a lie-detector test.  There's no need to go forward with this nomination at this stage.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling out people that look like me for not doing enough to defend women and minorities and people of color and I'm going to continue to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: But now, that Avenatti has been accused himself of domestic violence. He is a big fan of due process for both sides women including his ex-wife have come to his defense who apparently, in this case, do not hashtag believes survivors. This is the problem with blanket statements each of these cases are individual, each circumstance is unique and each needs to be treated as such. Each accuser and accused deserves to have the opportunity to tell their side of the story. That is how our system of justice works in this country.

Now, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos is demanding after a year of studying how these cases have been handled on college campuses across this country, under strict rules that were imposed on them by the Obama administration that there was a lack of justice in the way they were often carried out.  In many cases, young men were rightfully punished and kicked out of school and the women who accused them were vindicated.

In others though, young men were kicked out after a sham hearing in which they were not even allowed to see the evidence against them, in some cases, they were not permitted to have a lawyer present with them during the proceedings while they were interrogating by a panel of three professors who were chosen by the school.

Corey Mock's father knows that situation all too well because it happened to his son. C.D. Mock, welcome. Good to have you here tonight, sir.

C.D. MOCK, FATHER OF COREY MOCK: Hi, Martha! Glad to be back with you again.

MACCALLUM: I mean, this is a story that I know left a deep mark on your life. Your son was accused of rape and he was exonerated by his school.  Then they said no, wait a minute we think this did actually happen. It was a torturous process that he was eventually found to be simply free of and that he was not found guilty of. The woman who accused him still stands by her accusation. What was wrong with the process that you saw?

MOCK: Well, we actually had a much better situation than a lot of these families today. We actually were afforded some due process at my son's school. The problem was the push from the Obama administration pushing the schools to find these young men guilty or responsible and get them off campus. And they weaponized the schools to do this by threatening to take away their federal funding if they didn't. And that was the big problem in our -- in our case and remains a problem today.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

MOCK: You know, what we're hoping with these new rules is -- and we're cautiously optimistic that the days of the kangaroo courts in our colleges is gone, hopefully, and that these colleges will stop railroading young men and not affording them any due process whatsoever and calling them guilty upon accusation.

MACCALLUM: You know, there was a push as we say under these new rules that went into effect on the Obama administration. There was all this discussion of rape culture and how there was rape culture across the country and that it was almost epidemic, and that the only way to stop it was to make sure that if someone was accused that they were basically in many cases almost immediately removed from campus. And that's how the schools showed that we're taking it genuinely seriously, right?

MOCK: Yes, that's correct. And those -- it amazes me. Those statistics are still being used today by people who want to perpetuate this for reasons which I -- amazes me. I just don't understand it at all. But that's -- yes, that's pretty much been the case. I mean, it -- you know there was a problem, and the problem was there were situations and instances where young women were getting sexually assaulted and maybe it was a high-profile athlete or someone like that at a college campus and it got pushed under the rug and certainly that's happened.

The response was to create imaginary epidemic or an imaginary crisis that existed were statistics of one in five and one in four the women in college are being sexually assaulted which are just -- it's lunacy. And yet you know, the Obama administration for some reason latched on to this and that was the you know, the point of them perpetuating this farce and creating these rules.

MACCALLUM: And the great tragedy in this is as you say that the cases that are genuine and that need to be resolved and where people need to be punished for their behavior get lost in sort of the shuffle of this and that there's not a good enough process where both sides feel that they're heard and that the truth can will out in the end. C.D. Mock, thank you.  Yes, go ahead, final thought, then I got to go.

MOCK: Well, just to say that you know, there are women that -- men raped women and women lie about men and people are people, and we just need to make sure that we've got a good rule of law in our due process to make sure that people who are innocent are not deemed to be guilty before they're proven guilty.

MACCALLUM: Mr. Mock, thank you very much. Good to talk to you tonight.  Thanks for being here. Important topic.

MOCK: Thank you. I appreciate it.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So coming up next, the real-life tragedies playing out in California tonight as the wildfires continue to burn out of control including the story of one high school football team where nearly every player, 105 players lost their family homes. The coach and some of those players join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So, tonight, California is bracing for heavy rains in the wake of the Camp Fire, the deadliest most destructive wildfire in California's history. So far, nearly 13,000 homes are destroyed as we head into Thanksgiving weekend. Seventy-nine people are dead. And thousands of families are homeless.

Take a look at the before on the left of Paradise and on the right, the after. And now take a look at the neighborhoods on the ground. A Paradise high school near Chico, California more than 100 members of the football team lost their homes. Only three of these young men did not.

Joining me now, Paradise high school football coach, Rick Prinz, and some of his players, Trevor Norman, Caleb Nelson, and Dylan Blood. Welcome to all of you. I'm sorry for what you are all going through at this time. Coach, let me start with you. That morning, you thought it was going to be a fairly normal day, right, what happened?

RICK PRINZ, FOOTBALL COACH, PARADISE HIGH SCHOOL, CALIFORNIA: I went to school, a normal day. I had my normal routine, I went and got coffee with my guy I work with, look up and saw this huge amount of smoke in the air. We're kind of used to fire so we didn't think anything of it, we heard there is a fire in the canyon and we went back in.

And in 15 minutes they canceled school, so I just hung around school helping out because the fire is on the east side of town, I didn't think there would be any rush for me to get out. I live on the west side of town. And after about 45 minutes, I was standing outside and a propane tanks started blowing up--

MACCALLUM: My gosh.

PRINZ: -- and cars were blowing up and big embers of smoke -- excuse me -- were falling onto the campus. I thought I better get out of here, I have my grandson at home. He is newborn with my son and his girlfriend and I wanted to get them out.

When I left school and I saw the, what was going on, I just screamed home, got them out and was so relieved that I almost sat on the couch and relaxed.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

PRINZ: But then I jumped in my old truck and drove it out.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

PRINZ: And in the evacuation we just -- I didn't have any information, I had no idea what was going on until I saw the flames that we were driving through. You probably have video of that, but it was--

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Yes, incredible.

PRINZ: -- it was incredible. I've never seen anything like it and how fast the fire moved, it's just hard to describe.

MACCALLUM: Dylan, what's it like for you and all the players, that so many of you, almost all of you lost your homes in this fire.

DYLAN BLOOD, FOOTBALL PLAYER, PARADISE HIGH SCHOOL, CALIFORNIA: It's just hard, it just happened so fast. Like, one day we were just practicing to go to the playoff game, we are expecting a section title and then the next thing you know, our season is just over, like that. So, you just kind of have to, you can't take anything for granted.

MACCALLUM: Caleb, you know, what are your thoughts on that day and how the team -- tell me how the team is pulling together. Because I'm sure you guys are very close and you practice together every day and now the devastation is just unbelievable.

CALEB NELSON, FOOTBALL PLAYER, PARADISE HIGH SCHOOL, CALIFORNIA: Yes, the devastation is pretty hard. It's been really hard for most of us. But most of us are keeping our heads up, we haven't gotten to see our teammates too often but when we do it's like nothing ever happened. Like, we are sitting there having fun, sitting by the sidelines is what it feels like.

But I know it's never going to be the same again. I think we need a little bit more time for it like, fully hit us and to realize everything is over, everything we tried everything we worked so hard for is over.

MACCALLUM: Trevor, I understand that the 49ers brought you guys to a game and at least at that point you had a minute to kind of forget about everything. At least just for a little while, right?

TREVOR NORMAN, FOOTBALL PLAYER, PARADISE HIGH SCHOOL, CALIFORNIA: Yes. It was so amazing, they were so generous and so kind. Every one of the players, they were also kind and they all love to see us. And they were so happy that we make it out alive, that they have the pleasure to come and host us there at their stadium.

Me and my buddy got to stand next to Joe Staley and he was like a mountain of a man. And he was just so kind and, I mean, the people there too, these fans of the 49ers were so kind too. Me and that same buddy of mine, Henry Becker and, this lady bought us two jackets for free, and it was -- it was incredible. I've just never been so blessed from a tragedy in my entire life, it was amazing.

MACCALLUM: We all are going to be thinking about all of you this Thanksgiving and how lucky we are and how lucky you all are that you have each other. I know it's a very tough time that you're going through and we wish you well. And we know you will get through it. And you should know the nation is thinking about you, we're going to put up some information on how people can help.

So, thank you all for being with us tonight and telling us your story. We really appreciate it. Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Martha.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Thanksgiving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Thanksgiving.

MACCALLUM: You bet.

So, we're going to put up on the screen how you can give to the people who lost so much in the fire. In a moment, it will also be on Twitter and on our web site.

Also, coming up next, the woman who spark the scandal that forever changed American politics. Donna Rice, 31 years after the affair that ended one of the most promising presidential campaigns of that time, she has done a lot since then. And she comes forward to talk about all of it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This campaign is about the future, not rumors, not sleaze. And I care about the sanctity of this process whether you do or do not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go on, Gary. Say it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's going to be a story tomorrow about me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Wow. Well, it was a scandal that really forever changed American politics and the year was 1987, Gary Hart was running for president, he nearly locked down the Democratic nomination to eventually take on George H.W. Bush in the general election. But Hart's presidential dreams and his political career came crashing down over allegations of an extramarital affair.

His downfall the first of many that we have seen since then.

My next guest was the woman at the center of that story and she has decided to step back into the spotlight tonight. Here's first, though, is Jonathan Hunt, our correspondent with the story from Los Angeles. Good evening, Jonathan.

JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. It could certainly be argued that you can draw a direct line from Gary Hart's alleged affair with Donna Rice through Bill Clinton's with Monica Lewinsky to Donald Trump's denial of an affair with Stormy Daniels and his boast about grabbing women.

If there was ever a bar for the personal behavior of presidential hopefuls, it perhaps began to be lowered when Gary Hart, the Democratic front runner in 1987 was photographed late in the evening at his D.C. townhouse with a woman who was not his wife.

That woman, Donna Rice, then 29-year-old model had apparently met Hart famously on a yacht named monkey business. And after photographs of the two together were published in the Miami Herald, Hart was asked whether he had ever committed adultery. His reply, "I don't have to answer that."

But days later, Hart suspended his campaign saying he'd, quote, "made some mistakes" and while not admitting to an affair in the immediate aftermath, the discussion was all about Hart's behavior. As Time magazine memorably put it, quote, "He denied there was anything improper about his friendship with Donna Rice even though it is far from customary for 50-year-old men to spend weekends away from their wives hanging out with commonly actresses who have appeared on Miami Vice."

Since then, the actions of the Miami Herald in staging the initial stake out to capture photos of Hart and Rice have been questioned while the media coverage of the sex lives of politicians has become ever more intense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Monica, hold on a second.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, pal, get your arms off her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Now a decade after Donna Rice found herself the center of the media maelstrom, that of course was Monica Lewinsky going through much the same experience. Magnified further by the existence of multiple 24-hour news channels.

And Martha, it does seem fair to ask without Gary Hart, without Donna Rice, without the media beginning to make public the private peccadilloes of politicians, without those indiscretions, affairs, abuses becoming part of our daily conversation without the public lowering of the moral bar, could there even have been a President Clinton, would there be a President Trump? Martha?

MACCALLUM: Jonathan, thank you very much. Here with me now, Donna Rice Hughes who has spent many years out of the spotlight following that scandal and rebuilding and channeling her focus into advocating for internet safety and her nonprofit organization, Enough is Enough, and she has spoken with us here in the past about that.

And then this movie comes out. Donna, welcome. Thank you very much for being here.

DONNA RICE HUGHES, PRESIDENT & CEO, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: And suddenly you're back in the spotlight and you say that you are ready to talk more about it then you did in the past, what is it you want people to understand and know?

HUGHES: Well, I've actually been out a lot over the past 25 years fighting to protect kids on the internet. And it's really interesting, after seven years underground after the scandal happened, after I was really front and center for 15 months when my name is released to the media by the Hart campaign.

But then back on the horse that threw me in 1994 to help launch the internet safety movement. But I'm very grateful that the director of this film actually got in touch with me as they were filming--

MACCALLUM: Yes.

HUGHES: -- the front runner and he did assure me that the character, my character -- which is so strange to say that would be treated with sympathy and compassion and I think he did a good job with that.

MACCALLUM: You know, I mean, it was sort of, you know, like a bimbo story, right. You graduated magna cum laude, I believe.

HUGHES: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Or summa cum laude.

HUGHES: Magna.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Magna cum laude from USA, you are a pharmaceutical sales rep.

HUGHES: Right.

MACCALLUM: You had done some modeling but it was all bikinis and, you know, all of that--

HUGHES: That's right.

MACCALLUM: -- right from the beginning. How did it feel to -- you know, before that, nobody touched these things, right?

HUGHES: Right.

MACCALLUM: JFK was never in the mainstream media but suddenly with the story it all changed.

HUGHES: Well, it was devastating for me and devastating for my family. And I felt like I didn't have any rights. I all of a sudden became a public figure and the trauma for me really was just beginning as this film ends, when like I said my name was released to the media and I was pushed out there in this first time feeding frenzy and there was blood in the water. And it was mine and it lasted for about 15 months.

But really, by the grace of God I returned back to my Christian faith and decided to take the high road. I went underground almost seven years and little did I know I would actually be using the pain of my own sexual exploitation and abuse and even a date rape when I was 22 years old and be fighting to protect the dignity and safety of children and young women now in the digital world.

Because like, one of your previous guests just said, even, you know, rape on campuses and by all is women, is at an all-time high. And in fact, Martha, two years ago right before the election, we actually issued the first ever children's internet safety presidential pledge.

And we went to Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump and we ask them to sign it. Trump signed it and Hillary Clinton sent a letter of support. And to make sure to defend and protect children from sexual exploitation in the digital world by enforcing the existing federal laws.

So, now we've got a first-time president, our president for the first time in history that has agreed to do that and now we are looking at our new A.G. appointment and we have got to get to the obscenity laws enforced. They have not been enforced since John Ashcroft.

MACCALLUM: It's interesting. I mean, you made some very interesting choices with how to use the notoriety that you had--

HUGHES: Yes.

MACCALLUM: -- during that and try to turn it into something good, it's a fascinating story. And you took the high road and stayed quiet for so many years. And Donna Rice Hughes, it's good to see you tonight.

HUGHES: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Thank you. We're going to check out the movie. That's very interesting. Thanks. Good to have you back.

HUGHES: Thanks.

MACCALLUM: Take care. All right.

So, coming up next, a troubled veteran sends a tweet saying that he is on the verge of ending his life. And that was when actor James Woods stepped in with a powerful message of support for him. This story strikes a nerve with our friend Karl Rove who has a similar story that very few people know. It is deeply personal and he shares it with us tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A troubled veteran's plea for help on Twitter was answered last night by a Hollywood icon who may have saved his life. That veteran wrote, "I'm on Twitter every day. I read tweet all the time, but this is the first tweet I've ever written. I'm a veteran, I love America, I'm going to kill myself tonight. I have lost everything, I have nobody. Nobody cares. I'm in a parking lot with my dog and everything I own. Bye."

His tweet was answered almost immediately by actor James Woods, who wrote, "Tell me where you are." Followed by this, "Think about this. A lot of vets I understand have come to where you are tonight and if you can just push this decision off tonight at least maybe you would inspire another vet to seek help. You can save another man too by waiting to do this."

We got in touch with the local police where we eventually found him. He is now safe and unharmed, and he does not wish to be contacted. He is safe, as we know, tonight.

This story strikes a nerve with a lot of people including our friend Karl Rove, who has been in a similar situation with his own family. He recently wrote an op-ed entitled "My mom's suicide was preventable." And Karl joins me now with his untold story. Karl, good to have you here tonight.

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks for having me.

MACCALLUM: You wrote that piece which was eloquent and so well done after Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain look at their own lives. And we talked about it a bit then. What do you think about that exchange with James Woods?

ROVE: Well, first of all, thank God the veteran had the courage inside himself to say I am contemplating this act. And bless James Woods for immediately jumping to -- he was a total stranger. But people who find themselves on the edge of taking their lives need to know that somebody cares, and that was a powerful message from James Woods.

So, it's Thanksgiving for both of them, I hope they both realize what a great thing has happened. The greatest gift we have is life, and to contemplate ending a life and to have someone help you realize what that would mean to so many people, really a great moment. God bless James Woods.

MACCALLUM: We had a guest on once who talks about suicide, he almost took his own life at one point and he said that of all the people that he spoke to who had also done what he had done, most of them said that they were so glad that they didn't succeed.

ROVE: Right.

MACCALLUM: Tell us about your mom.

ROVE: Well, my mother committed suicide. She had gone through a second marriage that was not good, and she had lost everything in life. She lost her home, she lost what little money she had. She came to a rough time in her life and, my sister, my little sister, who was very close to her, they had a meal and friends had rallied. And somebody said here is a place where you can live, and somebody said, well, I've got a used car you are welcome to have.

There is a feeling, you know, of optimism about being able to come out of this, and the next day, she committed suicide. And it's a reminder that this is, if you talk about it, and if you, if people are going through a rough patch like that or if they are abusing alcohol and drugs and the intense, sort of abrupt relationships where they are erratic and particularly aggressive, there are lots of signs of people who are contemplating this, and the best and talking about this.

A lot of people talk about it and nobody asked. But the most important thing we need to do is remove the stigma of saying I am in a very dark place and I need help. And my mother was not able to ask for help or seek help, but that was a different time.

I mean, today, perhaps she would not have died because somebody might have identified it. A lot of people can be help with their depression, their bipolar condition with drugs. But it's something that touches far more people than most Americans imagine.

After I wrote that piece in June, I cannot tell you for the next five or six weeks I'd be traveling through an airport and somebody would come up to me and say, thanks for writing about it. I had a suicide in my family. My brother committed suicide, my mother, my father.

And we, as a society, really need to focus on those because these are -- these are -- I mean, every life is precious. And the loss of life that we see in suicides, like veterans. Veterans commit suicide at about a rate half as large as the rest of America.

So, if people want to do something about it, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention has an excellent web site. There is also great information on the web site of the National Suicide Lifeline. God bless James Woods. Happy Thanksgiving to him.

MACCALLUM: Karl, thanks for sharing your story with us tonight. Good to have you here. Good advice, good ways to get help. That's our “Story” for tonight. Have a good Thanksgiving, everyone. Tucker's up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2018 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2018 ASC Services II Media, LLC. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of ASC Services II Media, LLC. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.