Anti-caravan protesters clash with police in Tijuana

This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," November 19, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHARLES PAYNE, GUEST HOST: Another tech wreck, as Apple continues to drag down technology shares, the Dow diving 500 points before cutting its losses, finishing down 400 points. When will the selling stop?

Welcome, everyone. I'm Charles Payne, in for Neil Cavuto. And this "Your World."

First Apple. Now it's suppliers are getting nervous as we head into the holidays.

FBN's Kristina Partsinevelos on what's got everyone so worried -- Kristina.

KRISTINA PARTSINEVELOS, FOX NEWS BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Thank you.

So, yes, you're seeing, as markets go up, they eventually have to go down.  And like you mentioned, you saw the Dow close in negative territory, the Nasdaq closing for the second day down in a row.

And what is moving these markets, what's moving the Dow, more specifically, is three particular stocks. That would be Boeing, Visa and Apple, like you mentioned. The reason why you're seeing Visa down, that could fall into the tech category, as well as an investigation from Brazil on Friday coming out looking into that company.

Boeing, there's also an investigation into that company around a deadly crash that killed over 180 people. And last, but not least, let's talk about Apple and the concerns over Apple and the iPhone demand. Have we hit the point of saturation?

There are concerns. There was a report actually coming out today saying that Apple reduced orders for three new iPhones that it unveiled in September. These are the latest phones. And you're already seeing a reduction in orders.

And then you have suppliers that are issuing concerns too about future shipments for iPhones. And so that's been weighing heavily on the stock.  You have analysts across the board that are saying, hey, you know what, it's going to be a time -- a tough time for Apple going forward, because we potentially could see iPhone demand drop.

And why is that? Why are we seeing this market downturn? There's not one particular reason, but there are several that we can focus on, the first one being slowing growth across the globe. And we're seeing that with home sales. We're seeing that with the price of oil. We're seeing that with iPhone demand.

Then, the big question, have we hit peak earnings, the top of the cycle?  Everybody loves to debate that. And I know you can weigh in on that too, Charles.

And then higher interest rates. Will the Fed continue with that? We must take into account that the U.S. dollar is climbing higher, which makes oil more expensive, which makes U.S. products more expensive. And then you have got the trade concerns. This past weekend, at APEC summit, an Asian summit, there was no communicate signed between the United States and China.

So there's a lot of pressure for relations to improve between both countries.

And we may as well on, last, but not least, the price of oil, which has seen itself fall quite low over the past few days. It's up today $56.76, the reason being is this concern of slowing demand and the fact that the Iran sanctions are in place, but there's a lot of countries -- eight countries, to be specific -- that have exemptions and can continue to do business with Iran -- back to you.

PAYNE: Thank you very much, Kristina.

So, the question, of course, is, is, there any end in sight in all the selling?

Let's ask market watches Gary Kaltbaum and Kevin Caron.

Gary, got to start with you.

Of course, you have been cautioning against this. You went to cash a long time ago, and the momentum squarely to the downside. How does the bias shift? How far down do we have to go before it happens?

GARY KALTBAUM, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I hate to use my two words, but time and price. That that's the story here, Charles.

And my biggest worry, this is supposed to be a seasonally strong week during Thanksgiving, and we get this today. And, look, I have always been a big believer that technology leads up and leads down. And right now, it's leading down. I suspect we're going to see the Nasdaq do the 20 percent-plus and people will start calling it a full bear market, even though tons of names already down more than 20 percent.

PAYNE: Kevin, more than half the S&P, to Gary's point, had been down.  Even months ago, we were -- it wasn't this great market where you could have thrown a dart.

But now people are really getting afraid, because it feels like this is more than a correction, that this is an indictment, if you will, or harbinger of the U.S. economy. Is -- should we be concerned about a dramatic slowdown in our economy?

KEVIN CARON, WASHINGTON CROSSING ADVISORS: Well, yes, I mean, you should you should be thinking about -- you should be thinking about how the U.S. economy would respond to a slow slowing global economy, because the data that's coming in throughout the last two or three weeks on the U.S. economy is red hot, whether you're looking at industrial production, whether you're thinking about employment, whether -- all of the data that we have seen.

It's just really good here in the United States. Where we're not seeing good data is from overseas. So, most of what we're seeing is bad. So you got bear markets breaking out all over the place in places like China. You have got industrial production in China down, pointing in the wrong direction, and overall just the sentiment overseas is not good.

So, it's a -- it's worrisome if that continues, because, ultimately, I don't think we can disassociate from the rest of the world completely.

PAYNE: Right.

Gary, how does an investor or even a casual observer of the market reconcile those two things, the economy, seven million job openings, 3.2 percent nonsupervisory year-over-year wage growth, the best in 10 years, and corporate profits at an all-time record?

How do we get that and then we get to sort of slump we saw in October and we're already experiencing in November?

KALTBAUM: I think the market is simply-forward looking, as has been pretty much forever.

Just remember Germany and Japan just announced contracting quarters, yet Europe topped out months and months and months ago. So I suspect you're going to see in the next quarter our numbers head south too.

I don't think we're going in any type of recession. But when you're priced to perfection, especially in the Nasdaq and Nasdaq types, you're going to get hit on any slowdown. And let me be clear. Demand is down. Inventory is up. You're going to have to clear that inventory in a whole host of technology companies before things can get going again.

So, I think this is going to go on at least into the first quarter and we will reevaluate. But leave no doubt that guidance for a lot of companies are on their way down right now and will continue for at least another quarter or so.

PAYNE: Kevin, exogenous events in the next couple of weeks that may change everything, the G20 summit. President Trump and his counterpart in China meet.

Also, the Federal Reserve, they get to have a meeting and a press conference. Maybe -- maybe they can get some sort of reassurance that they won't wreck this economy.

CARON: Yes, maybe.

But as far as the G20 is concerned, who knows what comes out of that?  There's been a lot of speculation that maybe we get some kind of communique from that. But, really, let's -- let's -- let's take a step back and just look at even this past weekend. It wasn't a very good -- good APEC meeting, for example.

When you think about the Fed, if they have to take the -- take the foot off the throttle and slow down what they're doing as far as rates are concerned, it's probably because the data is not doing well and the financial markets are not doing well, so be careful what you wish for.

PAYNE: All right, gentlemen, thank you both very much.

Well, the rocky markets coming as Washington prepares for a split government.

Back -- with Rick Scott now in Florida, winning in Florida, the GOP they have actually increased their Senate majority. President Trump cheering that news.

Fox's John Roberts is at the White House with more on that -- John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president certainly pulled out all the stops in campaigning for the midterm elections, no question about that. He did 30 rallies between Labor Day and November the 6th.

And the fact that going into the election night on the 6th, Election Day, election night, both Ron DeSantis and Rick Scott were down to their opponents, and the president did a couple of rallies at the last minute in the 11th hour in Florida, and he believes pulled them over the top, in particular Rick Scott. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Rick Scott won and he won by a lot. I don't know what happened to all those votes that disappeared at the very end.

And if I didn't put a spotlight on that election before it got down to the 12,500 votes, he would have lost that election, OK? In my opinion, he would have lost. They would have taken that election away from him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: The Senate majority goes from 51 to 53. The senators are very happy with President Trump.

But I am told there are a lot of House members who think that the president's rhetoric on immigration in the closing days of the campaign may have cost them their races. So got a happy Senate and a not-so-happy House.

One thing we should point out too, Charles -- this is brand new from the White House -- they have said that they are going to restore the hard pass of CNN's correspondent Jim Acosta, and they are laying down some rules now for how the press has to conduct itself during press conferences.

It says here: "A journalist, when called upon to ask a question, will ask a single question and then will yield the floor to other journalists. At the discretion of the president or other White House official taking questions, a follow-up question or questions may be permitted, and where a follow-up has been allowed and asked, the questioner will then yield the floor.  Yielding the floor includes, when applicable, physically surrendering the microphone to the White House staff for use by the next questioner.  Failure to abide by any of the rules one to three may result in suspension or revocation of the journalist's hard pass."

The president says that it is regretful that it has to come out with these rules, but that what happened in that East Room press conference on November the 7th has really kind of forced their hand here.

You know, Charles, up until now, all of these interactions that the press has had with the president had been self-regulating, but the White House now stepping in, feeling the need to issue some sort of rules of engagement here between the media and the president, which really is kind of a shame.

PAYNE: It's a shame, but the rules of engagement, it might be time for it for everyone.

John, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

So, now, what does all of this mean for the Trump agenda?

With me now, Democratic strategist Robert Patillo and Fox News contributor Deneen Borelli

Deneen, President Trump gets -- gets more strength in the Senate. Of course, the GOP loses the House. Very ambitious programs by -- by Democrats in the House, including heavily targeting President Trump. Is that going to help or hurt his agenda?

DENEEN BORELLI, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the Democrats want to throw up as many roadblocks as they can, Charles.

And with them in charge of the House, now they will be on these committees.  So that will be even more chaos coming from Democrats.

But, also, look at the fact that how they were really out there promoting how they're going to subpoena and investigate and just do anything they can to harm this president and anyone that supports them.

So I say expect more chaos and drama from Democrats, especially because they now have control of the House.

PAYNE: Robert, investigate or legislate, which one?

ROBERT PATILLO, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think those are two things you have to do concurrently.

One thing that's important to understand, that the American people have to have confidence that the electoral process is operating correctly, and that we have an up-and-up, above-board government, where we know exactly who is influencing it, who has the ability to impact legislation, that the American government is working for the people.

What we saw in the midterms is that the American people are interested in a message of moving forward, not divisive messages about immigrant caravans and this Stephen Miller/American carnage view of America.

What they want is young, exciting, progressive people to come into office and to move the ball forward.

PAYNE: Well, you may have to tell that to Nancy Pelosi, but I get the drift of what you're trying to say.

One of the more contentious midterms was in Georgia. Stacey Abrams has yet to concede that she lost to Brian Kemp in the governor's race. In other words, she knows that she lost, but she won't and hasn't delivered a concession speech, suggesting in fact that the election was tainted.

And now Hollywood, they're also getting involved. Ron Perlman tweeting: "To all my friends who are studio network executives, if you choose to shoot movies and TV and Georgia, don't bother to call me."

Abrams responded by saying: "Please don't boycott Georgia."

Deneen, though, is the damage already done?

BORELLI: Yes, the damage is already done.

Listen, she sent the signal by pouting and given an arrogant, un-conceding speech with this election for her.

And, listen, this sent a signal to the Hollywood elites who put tons of money behind her campaign. She sent the signal. Hollywood now wants to boycott, and now she's unable to rein them in. So, really, she caused this problem.

PAYNE: Robert, the idea that Hollywood will take its film equipment and lead because the citizens of Georgia didn't vote in the candidate they want, is that the kind of progressive ideas you think America is trying to embrace?

PATILLO: No. This is why Hollywood needs to stay in Hollywood sometimes.

I'm a Georgia native. And, frankly, the film industry is here because of the tax incentives that they are being provided and by having a business- friendly -- a business-friendly atmosphere in the state.

So, if they want to boycott something, boycott what's going on in their own state and leave the South alone. But as far as what Abrams is saying by not conceding, I think that it's important for us to set up an electoral commission in Georgia, where you don't have the secretary of state who's overseeing the election also being the candidate for governor in that state.

I think that's a completely reasonable set of rules to put in place.

PAYNE: Well, but is it a good look, though, is it a good look, though?

Listen, the voters have spoken. The decision has come through. I hear what you're saying. And maybe they can do those things in the future. But she -- it's just -- it's just not a good look that she won't say, hey, America, this is the way it works, it was close, it was hard-fought, we saw what happened.

And Gillum, he was -- he was -- he gave a really -- he conceded twice, but she hasn't conceded once. It just -- it just seems like it's tainting what was a good run for her.

PATILLO: Well, what she has done is said that she understands, with the vote totals, that Brian Kemp is our governor. He announced his transition team.

He has some great people on that transition team that he's -- going to help to move the state forward. But what Democrats want and need is a fighter.  They want somebody who's not going to just lay down and roll over.

That's what the biggest problem that many people had during the Obama years, is they felt that he didn't fight hard enough for his agenda and fight hard enough going forward.

PAYNE: Yes.

PATILLO: If there's one thing that I think American politics have learned from Trump is, never surrender, never concede, never take a step back, fight until the end.

And if Democrats pick that up, that might be what they need going into 2020.

PAYNE: Yes, I think Spike Lee famously said sometimes you got to go off, even when the election -- even when the votes are already counted.

Hey, thank you both very much. Really appreciate it.

BORELLI: Thanks, Charles.

PATILLO: Thank you.

PAYNE: Well, tensions are flaring in Tijuana, as the migrant caravan makes its way to the border.

Is this a prelude of things to come?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: The scene in Tijuana, Mexico, with anti-caravan protesters clashing with police.

The protesters want the migrants the turn around. So is this a preview of things to come, as the majority of the caravan comes closer to our southern border?

Let's talk to Jessica Vaughan from the Center for Immigrant Studies.

What do you make of it? It's -- I was really surprised at the reception there by the -- by the citizens of Tijuana. They were pretty Adamant about their opposition to this caravan.

JESSICA VAUGHAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Absolutely.

Well, the caravan is causing major problems, disruptions and other issues in the city of Tijuana. They're used to having migrants come there, but they're not used to them being quite so disorderly and aggressive.

And the problem is, is that if the United States doesn't let them in, in a speedy fashion, if the president holds the line and says we're going to do -- we're not just going to capitulate and let everyone in, they could be there a while. And that could cause some real quality of life problems, some public safety problems and other issues.

Even those migrants who may be perfectly fine people who are just taking the opportunity to get to the United States, they don't have shelter or food, and they're going to need support from somebody. So this is going to be a very difficult situation for that city.

And I -- and I think it's understandable that they are upset and complaining to their federal government.

PAYNE: Well, along the way, there been many offers -- offers and overtures by the Mexican government to the folks in the caravan. And for the most part, they have been turned down.

And it makes you wonder, again, if it's asylum, if it's -- if you're flying a certain type of oppression, the opportunities have been rolled out for them, but it seems like they're intent on sort of getting to the American border, and then I don't know what the showdown is going to look like. And I don't think the Trump administration is going to back down.

So what exactly do you think they want?

VAUGHN: Well, they want to get to the United States. I mean, that's pretty obvious.

The organizers of the caravan want to make a stunt about open borders and to challenge the sovereignty of the United States and challenge immigration enforcement. But the migrants themselves simply want to get to the United States.

They know that, if they make an asylum claim, that they're likely to be released into the country for years to come, indefinitely. And they don't -- we know from past experience with the other Central American migrants that half of them who get in on the basis of an asylum claim never even bother to fill out the asylum application.

They just want to get into the United States.

PAYNE: Right.

VAUGHN: So this is not about oppression or persecution. It's about an opportunity.

And so that's why this could get a little ugly if they are not able to do what so many others have done before them who were caught and released.  And so the Mexican government really needs to step in and get control of this before it gets out of hand.

PAYNE: Yes, well, we know it's a big showdown has been promised from the very beginning. I think promises were made to them by certain organizers.  And, unfortunately, to your point, it could get really ugly at some point soon.

Jessica, thank you very, very much. We appreciate it.

VAUGHN: Good to talk with you.

PAYNE: President Trump visiting devastated California this weekend, as officials today scramble ahead of some bad weather expected to disrupt the search for wildfire victims.

We're going to talk to a local mayor who met with the president next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: The search for victims after the California wildfires could take a big hit, with officials worried about a rainstorm moving into the state making things much harder for rescuers.

Joining us now on the phone, Thousand Oaks Mayor Andy Fox. He had the pleasure of meeting with President Trump over the weekend. I don't know if pleasure is the right word, but certainly be honor.

Andy, tell us about the meeting with the President Trump, if you will.

ANDY FOX, MAYOR OF THOUSAND OAKS, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Charles. It's good to be with you.

I, along with a number of first-responders and some of the families that were involved with the Borderline incident, had the honor of meeting President Trump out at Point Mugu.

And it was an important meeting certainly for the families, for the president of convey his condolences. It was a somewhat somber tone, as you can imagine under the circumstances. But the president was kind. He was gracious, very respectful to the families and their loss, and the sacrifice from Sergeant Helus' family.

And, all in all, I believe it was a positive visit.

PAYNE: Yes, to see the video and the photographs of Gavin Newsom, Jerry Brown and President Trump, it really, to a degree, warmed the hearts, I think, of a lot of people, knowing that you could be bitter political rivals, but when it comes time for Americans of all stripes to do the right thing and to focus on saving Americans, in this case rebuilding from a devastating incident like this, it was -- it was heartwarming.

Were there -- were there some promises made and were there some questions that you were able to get in with regard to the federal -- federal government's role, not only in the cleanup of this, but perhaps in how to prevent or mitigate these fires in the future?

FOX: The president was very clear. He indicated that he was going to do all he could to help.

As you know, he is a builder by profession. And he had a chance to tour the dramatic scenes of the fire, with all the destruction. It was 100,000 acres. And you really have to see it to really get a sense of the amount of destruction that went down.

So he was all in on helping California, specifically us here in Ventura County, to make sure that the recovery efforts, the federal assistance is going to be in place.

PAYNE: Mayor Fox, again, once this is all said and done, because of the frequency of these fires and the devastation, it feels like each successive one establishes a new record for carnage.

What do you think will happen in your state? What will the state do to sort of try to find a way to curb this? Because there's a lot of criticism, whether it was with the power company there, whether it was about the management of the forests there.

What can be done, and what do you think should be done to make sure that we don't have to experience it to this degree ever again?

FOX: Well, I should point out that I just recently retired after 38 years as the assistant fire chief of the Los Angeles City Fire Department.

So, I can speak to this with some degree of expertise. And I can tell you that, when you have Santa Ana wind conditions, you have drought conditions with respect to very dry fuel, and a fire start, it's virtually impossible for any fire department or multiple agencies to put a fire like that out.

Basically, fire departments do their best to first protect life. And that involves evacuation, and then do their best to protect property. And that really involves just protecting structures.

But in terms of actually attacking and getting a liner on the firewall, we do our best. The fact of the matter is, is, as long as the wind is blowing, it's very, very difficult, if not impossible, to get a handle on the fire.

PAYNE: Well, Mayor Fox, our thoughts and prayers are with you. And good luck.

As the weather changes, it makes even the difficult situation even more difficult.

Thank you for taking out the time.

FOX: Thanks for having me, Charles.

PAYNE: Congresswoman-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez hasn't even been sworn in yet, but already looking to unseat Democrats come 2020.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Well, we told you about Apple earlier in the show, the tech giant dipping into bear market territory earlier today. Well, guess what? It showed some resolved. It didn't close there, in fact, down 19.9 percent.  It's got to be down 20 percent.

Right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Congresswoman-elect and self-described Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is taking aim at her own party, vowing to help candidates in 2020 mount primaries against incumbent Democrats who are seen as out of touch with their districts.

The Weekly Standard's Kelly Jane Torrance joins me now.

She is -- man, oh, man, well, listen, I can perhaps understand she ran against a Democrat incumbent who was so arrogant he didn't even come to campaign, right?

KELLY JANE TORRANCE, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: Exactly. Yes.

PAYNE: But she is a force to be reckoned with in the Democratic Party.  And they have got to beware not to write her off, despite how young she is and how many mistakes she makes.

TORRANCE: No, you're right, Charles. And they should be worried.

And like you said, they were a little, oh, we don't have to worry.

Well, people think in Washington the only people with big egos are old white men. Well, that is clearly not true. Now, she had a conference call over the weekend with Justice Democrats, which is one of the big groups that put her into power. And she actually said to them, I need you to run for office. Talking to people, I need you to run for office.

It was all about her. And so a lot of people, I have to say, would have the superstar status that she's getting and not do anything with it. She is definitely trying to do something with it. Now, whether that successful or not, as you I'm sure know, remains to be seen.

PAYNE: In the meantime, the conventional wisdom is that Nancy Pelosi will get the speaker -- the speakership.

But the Congressional Black Caucus now thinking about running their own candidate, and they're very afraid. You have got the Clyburns of them and some of these other folks who've been around for a long time. They feel like they went through these struggles, they were marches, they got beaten up, they had the fire hoses, and the only people who are getting the big jobs are the Nancy Pelosis of the world.

I think that the politics of identity, I.D., this -- whether it's based on race, gender, it's coming back to haunt the Democratic Party.

TORRANCE: No, I think you're right, Charles.

And think about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, right? She actually was in a protest at Nancy Pelosi's office just a few days ago about the green new deal that she is going for. I think she's trying to be the Steve Bannon of the Democratic Party.

And we saw how well Steve Bannon did. He tried to primary some candidates, in some cases successful, in some cases not, and those didn't work now.

Now, for example, Justice Democrats, any candidates they ran in areas that were Republican- held, those candidates failed. I think your average voter is rejecting identity politics. And so the Democratic Party is kind of in a bit of a problem right now, because they have a lot of young people who - - who embrace identity politics, and they want to take their turn against the establishment.

And then you have other people who are a little older also against the establishment. But it's the establishment that tends to have been very successful with the voters.

PAYNE: Well, it remains to be seen.

I think Nancy Pelosi, if she does keep the job, is going to have to make some changes. Maybe getting rid of that seniority thing and letting hot new talent rise above the fray.

We will see.

Nice seeing you.

TORRANCE: Good seeing you, Charles.

PAYNE: OK.

Well, again, Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters, now, she's expected to take a look at some of these big banks when she's sworn in as chairwoman of the House Financial Services Committee.

Fox Business Network's Charlie Gasparino has been all over this.

Charlie, a week ago, I heard you say you thought that she would work with Wall Street. Since then, we have heard more rhetoric, and it feels like I'm not so sure.

So do you think it will be that she will work with Wall Street, or is she going to go to war with Wall Street?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: First off, I have to say I went to the same high school is Ocasio-Cortez. Just want to throw that out there.

PAYNE: OK, not the same year, though.

GASPARINO: Thirty years difference, but...

(LAUGHTER)

GASPARINO: Listen, here's what I understand from people close to her, is, she's going to seek a constructive relationship with most of the big Wall Street firms and banks, she's not going to go after them totally, in a sort of broad, sweeping way. She's going to pick our spots on stuff that matters politically.

The two banks, I hear, that are in her crosshairs is Wells Fargo, for one, and Wells Fargo for obvious reasons, California Bank. she doesn't believe they serve her district very well in minority and poor communities through lending and banking activities, branch-building in these communities. She represents, as you know, South Central L.A.

The other bank, I hear, that's in her crosshairs firmly, and this may fit in with what she said about looking at international banks, is Deutsche Bank. Why is Deutsche Bank in her crosshairs?

Quite simply, that was Donald Trump's bank. And from what I understand, those are the two places she's really going to focus on.

Now, is she going to just let banks go run free and not -- and not have to do what she wants? No. She can hold hearings. But, remember, Charles, she can't regulate.

I mean, this is a -- she's just -- she can -- she can hold hearings, she can embarrass, but she can't regulate. She has very few regulatory -- I mean, Dodd-Frank, the way it's interpreted now, in a very loose fashion the Federal Reserve, which is run by a Trump appointee, by the Treasury Department, is not going to be -- is not going to be changed by her.

There's nothing that she can do. So her big -- her big focus is, from what I understand, is on those two banks, for the reasons I pointed out, Wells Fargo because she thinks they're lousy in terms of CRA and giving back to the community. Whether that's true or not, I have no idea.

I can just tell you that's what I'm hearing from her people. And Deutsche Bank, because it was Donald Trump's bank. There's always been a lot of suspicion among Democrats that Deutsche Bank is -- has strong ties with Russian -- with Russians and Trump.

And whether this is a conspiracy theory -- it could be -- but that might not stop her from doing an investigation on this whole thing.

PAYNE: Right.

Well, does the sort of social justice narrative that she's going to base her stewardship of the House Financial Services Committee, can we get anything done if it's all about investigating Trump's bank, all about getting back at Wells Fargo for not treating the black community the right way?

What can get done to move the ball forward to get more lending out there to Main Street America?

GASPARINO: Unfortunately -- well, first off, there's nothing that she can do to promote that anyway.

I mean, if you want -- I mean, lending to mainstream America is a function of loosening bank capital requirements, in some extent, which I believe Trump is trying to do. The -- Trump -- and the Fed needs to lay off some of the regulations of the banks, which I believe they're doing.

PAYNE: Right.

GASPARINO: And the economy. So, can she?

But she can force -- I mean, I think what she could do, if she really wants to, she could force the sort of focus on whether banks like J.P. Morgan, but I think Wells Fargo, since it's in her backyard, are they giving back to the community? Are they living up to CRA requirements?

I think that is something that she's going to -- she's going to press the button on.

PAYNE: Right.

GASPARINO: I don't think she's going to be holding show hearings focusing on Jamie Dimon. She doesn't -- I mean, listen, there's just almost so much you can -- you can do.

And there's two big, big things out there. There's Wells Fargo, which obviously has issues aside from this, regulatory issues.

PAYNE: Sure.

GASPARINO: And there's Deutsche Bank, which has a big fat target on its head because of its association with Donald Trump.

PAYNE: Right. And the CRA, Community Reinvestment Act.

Charlie, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

GASPARINO: You got it.

PAYNE: Well, the Department of Justice approved the appointment of Matthew Whitaker to become acting attorney general, but now three Democratic senators are suing to block that move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: A lawsuit filed by three Democratic senators challenging President Trump's appointment of Matthew Whitaker as acting attorney general.

Now, they cite his criticism of the Mueller probe.

Heritage Foundation senior legal fellow Hans Von Spakovsky joins me now.

Hans, do they have any legal ground, any merit to this suit, in your opinion?

HANS VON SPAKOVSKY, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, on the one hand, the critics are saying that appointing any individual into a spot that requires Senate confirmation is a violation of the Appointments Clause of the Constitution.

The Justice Department, on the other hand, points to the fact that these kind of temporary appointments have been going on since George Washington was president, up to and including Barack Obama. And they also say the president complied with the Federal Vacancies Reform Act, which gave the president the power to do this.

I don't think anybody could predict how the Supreme Court's going to going to rule on this issue. But Clarence Thomas, however, has raised doubts about the constitutionality of that federal law.

PAYNE: It is a temporary appointment, though, 200-some-odd days?

VON SPAKOVSKY: That's right, 210 days only, unless the president in the meantime nominates the permanent replacement for the A.G. In that case, the acting attorney general can stay in that position until the Senate deals with the nomination.

PAYNE: Hans, the notion, though, that Matthew Whitaker was critical of the Mueller investigation at some point in his career, whether it was a week ago or a year ago...

VON SPAKOVSKY: Right.

PAYNE: ... how relevant is that? Because it feels like the kind of things that you hear during the Supreme Court hearings or anything else where people have a chance to have an opinion when they're not in a job, but we expect them to have a certain level professionalism once they are -- once they ascend to a certain position.

VON SPAKOVSKY: I actually think that's the best way to analyze this.

Look, he's been criticized for making remarks when he was acting as a political pundit. He working for the government. He didn't have access to any of the information that the special counsel has.

And the statements that he's made actually seem to be factually true. And I will just give you a quick example. He said at one point -- he's been criticized for this -- that there doesn't seem to be any obstruction of justice charge to be had here.

Well, look, it's the longtime policy the Justice Department that a sitting president can't be criminally indicted or charged. So if Bob Mueller actually follows Justice Department policy, he can't file an obstruction of justice charge, no matter what he finds.

PAYNE: So, is it just political theater, then?

VON SPAKOVSKY: Yes.

PAYNE: Because it stands to reason that, if Matthew Whitaker's out, maybe the Democrats maybe feel bad, because maybe the next person who gets the job might be someone that they feel is even more harmful to whatever the agenda might be here.

VON SPAKOVSKY: Yes, I think that this is really political theater.

I think the Democrats would be criticizing anyone that the president has appointed as the acting A.G. And I suspect that when the president nominates the permanent replacement, they're going to criticize that individual, no matter who it is.

PAYNE: Yes. All right, these lawsuits are just nuts. It's driving us all crazy.

Thanks a lot, Hans. Really appreciate it.

VON SPAKOVSKY: Sure thing.

PAYNE: Well, Black Friday is still four days away, but some retailers, they're not waiting. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: Ahead of Black Friday, shoppers are gearing up to spend a whole lot of green.

Here with the details to help you snag those door-busters, Fox Business Network's Ashley Webster.

ASHLEY WEBSTER, FOX NEWS BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Charles.

It's come down to a fine art these days. It's a science on figuring out where to go to get the best deals. But gone are the days where you wait for Black Friday or Cyber Monday to actually get those deals.

Often, these stores will offer them some sort of incentive weeks ahead of the big days.

But here you go. Here are the stores that open, some of the major stores open on Thanksgiving Day. Wal-Mart will open at 6:00 p.m. on Thursday, Target 5:00 p.m., Macy's at 5:00 p.m.

But there are big stores that are saying, nope, it is a day for families.  Some are staying closed on Thanksgiving Day, including Costco, Dillard's, Home Depot, Lowe's, Marshalls, and Nordstrom, just some of those stores that say, no, we want our employees and shoppers, for that matter, to stay at home.

But a lot of people are not going to do it. And, by the way, there is one store that is closed on Thanksgiving day And on Black Friday. That would be REI, the outdoors specialists, who say, get outside, enjoy the great outdoors. And they don't mean standing in line at a store.

We could say that bottom line is, what kind of numbers are we looking at?  Last year, some $5 billion was spent in the 24 hours of Black Friday.  Between Thanksgiving and Cyber Monday this year, Charles, the average shopper is expected to spend a minimum of $420.

And, by the way, Cyber Monday could eclipse Black Friday. Cyber Monday, you go online for all those deals. And sometimes you can do a better deal on Cyber Monday than you can on Black Friday -- $7.25 billion is expected to be spent on Cyber Monday, which is actually one week from today.

So, Charles, I know you got your list. I know you got your strategy in place. Get out there and save some money.

PAYNE: Football helmet and combat boots, shoulder pads, that's how you do it, my man.

(LAUGHTER)

WEBSTER: You need them.

PAYNE: All right, Ashley Webster, thanks a lot.

WEBSTER: Thanks, Charles.

PAYNE: Well, a British Airways passenger is suing the airline for sustaining what he claims is -- are injuries from a tight squeeze. Wait until you hear about this one. It's a crazy lawsuit.

And we have got it for you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAYNE: A British Airways passenger now suing that airline after being forced to sit next to an obese person on a long-distance flight, claiming that he suffered injuries from being pressed against on the side of the plane.

Joining us now to debate all this, attorneys Erin Ehrlich Caro and Randy Zelin.

All right, Randy, now, you think the passenger has a case here?

RANDY ZELIN, ATTORNEY: The passenger does.

You have to throw out common sense and you have to rely on the law. There is not always common sense there. When you're talking about international travel, it's not law. There are treaties. And the treaties define -- define airlines' liability.

Throw out notions of breaches of care, negligence, all of that fancy mumbo jumbo. Once you get into that plane and those doors close, you are in the care and custody of the -- of the airline. On an international flight, as long as there is an accident, which is also specifically defined -- some unexpected occurrence, through no fault of the passenger -- you don't have to prove negligence.

So the fact that you have this unexpected, unusual occurrence, this man sitting next to a much bigger man, big man in the middle, smaller guy on the -- on the side, he gets hurt. It's a link in the chain. The airlines knew about it. They -- he complained. The stewardess did nothing. The flight attendant did nothing. You got a case.

PAYNE: All right.

Well, remind me not to go on any flights with Randy, right?

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: OK, but...

ERIN EHRLICH CARO, ATTORNEY: Noted.

PAYNE: What do you think?

EHRLICH CARO: I disagree with that.

I think that you would see a lot more of these claims being made if that was how these treaties were interpreted. I don't think that you can remove the causation and the duty of care notion.

I do think that, at the end of the day, this is a tort claim for negligence. At the end of the day, what he's alleging is that British Airways should have foreseeably and reasonably known that being sat next to an overweight passenger was going to actually cause him physical harm, not just discomfort.

We know the airline probably anticipated the discomfort, since they keep making these seats a whole lot smaller.

PAYNE: Right. Exactly. Yes.

EHRLICH CARO: You knew that was coming. We knew that.

But what they can't be responsible for and held liable for is any time someone has an accident on the plane under certain circumstances.

PAYNE: Is there anything like that written in our fine print of our tickets now that we don't see?

EHRLICH CARO: Well, that's a contract claim.

And what he's alleging here is more rooted in a tort claim that in a contract claim. Perhaps he could make a breach of contract claim and say, hey, you didn't give me what I purchased when I purchased this ticket. I was supposed to get a seat.

PAYNE: Right.

EHRLICH CARO: But then you would just be entitled to the reimbursement of your costs and perhaps even some court fees.

PAYNE: We do have a statement from British Airways I want to share with everyone -- quote -- "We welcome all passengers aboard our aircraft, and our crew are trained to ensure passengers have a comfortable journey.  We're pleased that our crew provided additional pillows and blankets to help Mr. Prosser have a restful trip."

So, they tried. I mean, is there something -- listen, they gave him blankets, they gave him pillows. Is there something to be said for that?

ZELIN: There is something to be said for it.

But, respectfully, again, we have to throw common sense out and negligence, the way we typically think about it. There's the Warsaw and the Montreal conventions. There are treaties. And they say, you don't have to prove negligence on an international flight. It's what we call strict liability.

So the guy -- the guy gets hurt. Take it each link in the chain. He gets hurt.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: But to Erin's point, then, wouldn't there be an avalanche of these?  People trip on the plane. Someone -- I mean, why aren't there just an avalanche of these kind of lawsuits?

ZELIN: There are many claims, the most common of which is falling baggage.

On an international flight, you don't have to prove that the airline was negligent.

(CROSSTALK)

PAYNE: Is that the key, that it's an international flight?

ZELIN: Yes.

PAYNE: Is that what makes this different?

ZELIN: That's correct. It makes it different.

As long as there is an international flight or there's an international stop, it's not federal or state law.

PAYNE: Where would a trial be held, in America or in the U.K.?

ZELIN: Probably up in the air someplace, since this is an international plane.

EHRLICH CARO: Think about this on a practical level.

This means that any time you have a fully boarded transcontinental flight, the in-crew staff have to now make musical chairs, and you have to move everyone around to shuffle everybody around every time we shut the airline door?

ZELIN: You don't want to get sued?

EHRLICH CARO: It doesn't make sense. It's untenable. That's not what these treaties are about. That's not what the intentions are.

PAYNE: Well, you brought up these smaller seats.

EHRLICH CARO: Yes.

PAYNE: I mean, I have seen diagrams where they are going to get even smaller.

EHRLICH CARO: Yes.

PAYNE: At some point, if this is the logical way of thinking or the new way of thinking, we will all have a lawsuit.

EHRLICH CARO: Absolutely.

And we're -- I'm certainly not advocating for the airlines here. I think that it's becoming a bit egregious, what they're doing, but it's a customer service problem. You choose what airline you want to fly.

PAYNE: Everyone who sits next to me is going to be looking for Randy Zelin to hire them. As soon as they land, they go, Randy, I sat next to Charles Payne. What can we get?

(CROSSTALK)

ZELIN: It would be a privilege to sit next to you any place, any time.

(LAUGHTER)

ZELIN: But I don't travel in business class, like you do.

PAYNE: No, no.

(LAUGHTER)

PAYNE: Listen, I had no choice, because I got stuck in those small seats.  And I had a guy like this, and he didn't complain to the airlines. He just was a pain in the neck the whole trip.

EHRLICH CARO: Well, there you go.

PAYNE: Anyway, we will see how -- the two great legal minds. We will see how it all works out. Thank you both very much.

EHRLICH CARO: Thank you so much.

PAYNE: Congratulations on the marriage.

EHRLICH CARO: Thank you.

PAYNE: All right, folks, that will do it here.

One more look at the Big Board. It was a rough day for the market, Dow Jones industrial average off 400 points. And that was 100 points better.  Apple led the way on the downside.

I will be covering it all and more tomorrow, "Making Money" at 2:00 p.m.

"The Five."

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