'Your World' on Biden and Russia

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Former Lieutenant Colonel: This is why sanctions on Russia will not work

Lieutenant Col Bob Maginnis joins ‘Your World’ to discuss President Biden’s talk with Putin amid Russia-Ukraine tensions.

This is a rush transcript of "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on December 7, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: And we're still watching and still waiting. Crossing the line?

President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin the holding a video call today, as Russia continues its troop buildup along the Ukraine border. The White House issuing a warning of a strong response if Putin invades Ukraine, but what exactly will that response be?

The president holding calls with U.S. allies, including France, Germany and Britain, right after that meeting.

Coming up, we're going to talk to Mississippi Republican Senator Roger Wicker on the Armed Services Committee and what he makes of what the president has to do now.

Welcome, everybody. Glad to have you. I'm Neil Cavuto. And this is "Your World."

The Russian media was allowed in for the start of that call. The U.S. media was not.

To Hillary Vaughn on Capitol Hill on where things stand right now.

Hey, Hillary.

HILLARY VAUGHN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

Well, after that two hour video chat between President Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan was asked if the world is any safer after that video chat. He said he could not predict that, and only would say that time will tell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SULLIVAN: The discussion between President Biden and President Putin was direct and straightforward. There was a lot of give-and-take. There is no finger-wagging.

All I will say is that the ultimate metric for whether the world is safe or not is facts on the ground and actions taken. Let's see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: Biden did threaten economic action if Putin ramps up his military action against Ukraine and also-called for Putin to de-escalate.

But some Senate Democrats tell me they don't think that that should be the only thing on the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: Do you think the military action should be on the table of options to convince Putin to back off?

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): I don't think any options should be off the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: There is something new on the table, though, today, a 180 on Russia's Nord Stream 2 pipeline to Europe.

After months of President Biden defending his decision to lift sanctions that green-lit the project, he is now backtracking, the White House describing it as a economic action that Germany could cooperate with, Jake Sullivan saying today that, since gas is not flowing through the pipeline yet, it is not leverage for Russia, but instead leverage for the West.

Biden is expected to ask Germany to coordinate to stop or utilize the Nord Stream 2 pipeline as an economic sanction if Russia invades Ukraine, but Republicans on Capitol Hill say Biden rolled over on the pipeline to begin with, and now is looking for Germany to bail him out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: Why do you think the White House is backtracking on a policy that they have defended for months?

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Well, because President Biden is obviously wrong. If you look at -- right now, we have got over 100,000 Russian troops that are massed on the Ukrainian border. That's Joe Biden's fault.

The reason this has happened is because Joe Biden surrendered to Vladimir Putin on Nord Stream 2.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUGHN: And the White House will also brief congressional leaders here on Capitol Hill, Neil, about that meeting with Putin.

It will be interesting to see, as we talk to lawmakers here, if they have a different perspective following that briefing -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Hillary Vaughn, thank you very much.

To Mississippi Republican Senator Roger Wicker, who serves on the Armed Services Committee.

Senator, we don't know a lot of what transpired in that phone call. We do know that Vladimir Putin still has those 100,000-plus Russian troops on that border. Do you think he will hold off?

SEN. ROGER WICKER (R-MS): Well, I hope he does.

There are two schools of thought on this. One is that it's a ruse, that he really doesn't have any intention of going in, instead using it as a bargaining chip. A lot of other people think that an invasion could take place and could take place within weeks.

I will just say this. Vladimir Putin has surprised the West twice, once in 2008 in Georgia, invading a sovereign nation who was struggling to get out from under the Soviet domination and become a democracy, and then 2014 with Ukraine.

He could very well surprise us again. And I hope, although maybe there was no finger-wagging in the conversation from the president today, I hope there was a show of resolve that we think this would be a game-changer for free Europe. And it's something that the United States and our allies cannot tolerate.

CAVUTO: Senator, some of your Republican colleagues think that we should have troops in the region. They never delineate exactly how many, or that they'd be utilized in an outright confrontation with Russia over the Ukraine, but their mere presence would be effective.

What do you think of that?

WICKER: Actually, I think there are over 200 U.S. troops in Ukraine right now under the uniforms of the National Guard, perhaps from California, which is their partner National Guard organization, and perhaps also from Florida.

So there are American troops uniformed in Ukraine now.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: So, they're doing very little, in that respect, if you think about it, to hold Putin back.

WICKER: No, but...

CAVUTO: He's obviously got these troops with them there, right?

WICKER: But they are there.

CAVUTO: OK.

WICKER: And, also, there's certainly nothing wrong with us, Neil, getting our troops in place in NATO countries that are treaty allies of ours.

So I would be supportive of that.

And I'll tell you this, Neil.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Finish that.

WICKER: I would not rule out -- I would not rule out military action.

I think we start -- we start making a mistake when we take options off the table. So I would hope the president keeps that option the table. And to the extent that he has agreed to reverse his mistake on Nord Stream 2, if that is, in fact, what came out of the -- out of the discussion today, I would applaud that. I hope he does it.

CAVUTO: All right. What does military action mean, Senator?

WICKER: Well, military action could mean that we stand off with our ships in the Black Sea, and we rain destruction on Russian military capability. It could mean that.

It could mean that we participate. And I would not rule that out. I would not rule out American troops on the ground. We don't -- we don't rule out first use nuclear action.

CAVUTO: Right.

WICKER: We don't think it'll happen. But there are certain things in negotiations, if you're going to be tough, that you don't take off the table.

And so I think we -- I think the president should say that everything is on the table. And, frankly, to the extent that you -- that you had Democrats on the show right before me being quoted as saying we need to be tougher, I support that and I appreciate that. I think they represent the fear that we have, the realization that we have in the Congress that losing a free democratic Ukraine to Russian invasion would be a game-changer for a free Europe.

CAVUTO: All right, Senator Wicker, thank you very much.

We will watch it very, very closely.

WICKER: Thank you, Neil.

CAVUTO: The defense secretary, for his part, did seem to kind of rule out a military-type action. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think there's always -- until something actually happens, I always believe that there's a chance to resolve it in ways other than force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAVUTO: All right, retired Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis with us on all of that.

Colonel, what do you think of that the administration at least seems to be holding off on any commitment of troops for the time being? We really don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But what do you -- what do you make of where we go from here?

LT. COL. BOB MAGINNIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes, well, our national interest are questionably at risk here, though, we don't like to see a democracy fall.

Keep in mind, Neil, there are 40 armored battalions lined up against Ukraine. There are 2, 900 infantry fighting vehicles. There are 1, 600 artillery tubes, maybe more than 100,000 troops. Putin is serious this time. This is far more than he had on the ground when he -- 2014, when he took Crimea.

And so this is credible. However, he's made it very clear in his state of the union address back this April. He said there will be a future Russo- Ukrainian country. He's not going to surrender to NATO. He's not going to allow ballistic missiles from NATO to be able to reach Moscow from Ukraine.

And so he has to be assured, which I'm sure he argued with Mr. Biden today, you give me guarantees, and then maybe we can talk.

CAVUTO: But he's going to keep the 100,000 troops there, whether they actually go into Ukraine. And it would relieve a lot of people certainly in the West if he were to start drawing down those troops. That doesn't appear likely.

But I am wondering whether the strategy of imposing more sanctions, Colonel, is the answer. I mean, Russia is among the most sanctioned countries on the planet right now, perhaps saving Iran.

I'm just wondering what another one would do.

MAGINNIS: Yes, I don't think sanctions are going to deter Putin.

And he he's already probably got a special deal working with President Xi regarding Taiwan. I think they're collaborating, Neil. I really do. They have had meetings here recently. They have common agendas, and they smell weakness.

And Mr. Biden, unless he comes through with something that's far stronger than what we have seen, I think they will take advantage of this. Kind of the tail wags the dog here. If you look behind the armored battalions, the infantry battalions and the 100,000 troops, you see a lot of supplies that are building up.

That communicates to someone like me, who has been during the Cold War facing a lot of Soviet Union forces, they had depth, and this depth is beginning to build behind the Russians today.

CAVUTO: All right, we will watch it closely.

Colonel, thank you very much for taking the time.

We are waiting to hear from the administration, from the president himself. We do know he's been conducting these phone calls with foreign leaders of the West. And whether they have his back and whether they will make any response in concert with the president, whatever actions he takes sanctions or otherwise, we will keep you posted on that.

Meanwhile, another alert to bring to you before we take a break here, the Dow Jones industrial sprinting ahead close to 500 points, having nothing to do with what's going on in these talks with Russia and everything to do with what seems to be easing anxieties about the Omicron virus variant.

The fact that it doesn't look as dangerous, it's contagious, all right, but doesn't appear to be as dangerous, eased a lot of concerns among stock traders. It could prove short-lived, but it did materialize today, in other words, easing worries that maybe this thing will settle itself and the fact that one drug company in particular seems to be working on a vaccine for that specific variant buoying buying interests today.

We will see if it's justified.

In the meantime, looking at daylight crime that is now a rampage around the country and what's being done to stop it once and for all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: You have probably seen these smash-and-grab burglaries that are all the rage, particularly out West, particularly in California, where even some authorities are saying perhaps we have been too lenient on this and this revolving door of getting people into be seen and then dismissed and never see a day or an hour jail time has actually fed the beast.

Jonathan Hunt in Los Angeles with more on this -- Jonathan.

JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Neil.

It's not an overstatement to say police chiefs in the Los Angeles area are frustrated in the wake of the spate of violent robberies here, high-end stores, malls, pharmacies, and cannabis dispensaries all targeted in recent weeks. And law enforcement has responded, including arresting 14 people here in L.A., who were then quickly released under a zero bail policy that was introduced at the beginning of the pandemic as a way to reduce L.A.'s crowded and therefore at-risk prison population.

Police chiefs claimed that policy and other justice reforms are essentially now encouraging crime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK STAINBROOK, BEVERLY HILLS, CALIFORNIA, POLICE CHIEF: We're catching the criminals. And the problem is, we're catching them over and over again. And they're being released very quickly without bail. And they're not staying in prison.

So we just continue to deal with the same -- the same people again and again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The zero bail policy was introduced before L.A. County district attorney George Gascon took office.

But as the lead prosecutor here, his critics still want to see tougher action from him. And a group of activists is now launching a second recall attempt against the DA, having failed badly in their first effort earlier this year. And other DAs are hitting out at Gascon and other progressive- minded DAs for their reform-minded agendas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD SPITZER, ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This is rampant, it's systemic. And yet George Gascon and Chesa Boudin in San Francisco and all these woke district attorneys across the country, they're doubling down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Now, George Gascon's office here in L.A. refutes that and says of the recent spate of robberies -- quote -- "We will hold those responsible accountable."

Also, Neil, we should point out that robberies and burglaries are mainly down, particularly compared to 2019, but that, of course, cold comfort for all the recent victims here -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Jonathan Hunt, thank you very much for that.

Get reaction to all this from Karl Rove, FOX News contributor, former White House deputy chief of staff, bestselling author.

Karl, again and again, this crime issue has galvanized voters across the country, no matter their party. And I'm wondering if these types of incidents, especially when we see them again and again, have already changed the complexion of even the '22 race. What do you think?

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think that's right, because, rightly or fairly or unfairly, a lot of people blame this on Democrats, liberal prosecutors, mayors who want to cut the -- and city councils who want to defund the police, high-profile figures in the Democratic Party like Representative Tlaib of Michigan, who supports a bill that would empty out federal prisons within a year.

There's not a lot of data on this, this year regarding the national scene. But there was a very interesting poll on June 30, ABC/Washington Post poll, asking people to rate President Biden on his handling of the issue of crime, approve 38 percent, disapprove 48 percent.

So, even then, before we had this spat of high-profile smash-and-grab property crimes they have had particularly on the West Coast, that the leader of the Democratic Party was already upside-down on this issue. I think it's probably only gotten worse.

CAVUTO: I'm just wondering too, as we progress here, a lot of people in their reluctance to return to in person work and cities and the like, and a good many of them, including where I am right now, New York, it's crime that's got them concerned, not necessarily COVID.

What do you make of that?

ROVE: I think that's probably accurate, because, look, we're all learning to live, whether we like it or not, with COVID.

And I think you see this again reflected, this whole belief that we have got to get on with our lives, and what are the impediments to us getting on with our lives, whether it's government regulation, whether it is education, virtual education, or whether it's crime, or whether it's just a general sense that our society is somehow upside-down.

You see this again in the president's approval/disapproval. This is the lowest approval rating of any modern elected president at the end of their first year, with the exception of Donald Trump.

And part of it is, look at this, right? People think -- only 28 percent think the country's going in the right direction; 62 percent think it's off on the wrong track. And when that happens, absent sort of like a major economic disaster, we're in a deep recession or depression, you can look at these cultural issues like, how do you feel about crime? What do you think about the quality of your schools?

Do you think that people are getting ahead? What are you seeing when you go to the grocery store or the gas pump? And I think all these questions, crime, inflation, education, recovery from the pandemic, all are conspiring to give the president a deep hole in which he finds himself.

CAVUTO: You always remind me, Karl, that sometimes you have to be careful of snapshots of how the electorate feels at a given time.

And I have been reminded of that today, an interesting column in The Washington Post talking about what Ronald Reagan was in 1983, where a lot of people were beginning to doubt that he could even be reelected. The recession was still dragging on. Inflation was coming under control, but the benefits would still be off.

He turned that all around, of course. And I know there are some great differences here. But do you think Republicans risk getting ahead of themselves on this?

ROVE: Well, I think you need to go back and take a look at what that history was.

What was the reason we felt badly? What why was the country in a funk? And why was the president seen as failing? And it was the economy. People said, we don't have enough jobs. There's not enough prosperity. He took the tough medicine in '81 and '82, suffered a big defeat in the 1982 midterms.

CAVUTO: Right.

ROVE: But the policies were right. And by 1983, it had turned around, and, by 1984, the economy was roaring, morning in America again.

And I'm not sure it's analogous here, because it's not just the economy. It's inflation, which the administration doesn't acknowledge as a problem. It's crime, which it sort of says is not our responsibility. it's concerns about the border. It's a sense that our education system is warped by Critical Race Theory and by educators who don't want to pay attention to families and teacher -- excuse me -- families and students, and who want to put the benefits necessary to -- and demanded by teachers above the necessity of teaching our kids to read, write and add and subtract.

So I think it's a more complex picture than we faced in 1981 and '82.

CAVUTO: Right.

ROVE: We also back then did have a sense of -- on the international front that America needed a boost of confidence. And we certainly got that from Ronald Reagan.

We're not getting it from President Biden.

CAVUTO: I thought you would remember differently. I was way too young. So I thought you could offer some insight there.

But, Karl, thank you very, very much. Good seeing you again.

ROVE: Thank you, Neil.

And I will check in with you from the old folks' home later on.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO: Thank you, Karl.

All right, as Karl was wrapping up there, just getting confirmation right now that Saule Omarova, the Cornell law professor who critics had claimed was virtually a communist here, has pulled her nomination to be the comptroller of the currency.

And President Biden accepted that with regrets. So they're back to scratch right now to try to find someone to run that important position as comptroller of the currency.

And in the meantime, some big news in New York. We told you about the crime. But, right now, it's about the COVID mandate instituted by a mayor who's going to be gone in, what, three weeks.

Madison Alworth, what's going on their?

MADISON ALWORTH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Neil, there's so much going on.

Businesses are really confused as to what implementation will even look like, because Mayor Bill de Blasio, he's not going to be announcing what goes into that for over a week. There's a lot to unpack here, a lot that businesses and every single person who lives and works in New York City right now is thinking about.

I'm going to bring you all of that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: New York mayor's outgoing parting shot at New Yorkers, even in the private sector, to get vaccinated, every single one of them, in the next three weeks. What?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: He has a little more than three weeks left in office, but New York's Mayor Bill de Blasio just dropping a bombshell here that he wants everyone vaccinated, even private company individuals, if that private company has two or more workers, and he wants it done as soon as possible.

Let's go to Madison Alworth on how that is being received -- Madison.

ALWORTH: Hey, Neil. Yes, this was shocking news for really everyone yesterday when it was announced.

This is by far the strictest vaccine mandate that we have seen in the United States. The businesses I have spoken to, they say they were blindsided when this came through, because it is so far-reaching. And there's still a lot of questions that I have been hearing from these business workers and owners.

That's because, when it comes to enforcement and penalties, none of that is yet understood. The mayor is not going to be announcing information around that until December 15. So, here is what we do know about the mandate as it stands right now.

So, effectively, with these new mandates, anyone from 5 and up that's unvaccinated will be barred from going to restaurants, gym, and entertainment spaces. And if you work in New York City, you now have to be vaccinated by December 27.

So, if you're not vaccinated, you are barred from working in New York City. The owner of this salon telling us this is just another blow to the recovery. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANE SORRENTO, OWNER, MERAKI HAIR AND MAKEUP STUDIO: We have to prepare for everything.

We have to prepare for everything. But what we can't prepare for is something that's thrown at us last minute. We're coming off of a very difficult two years to begin with. We have -- we're in the midst of the holiday season.

To tell my staff come January 1 they may not have a job is a very difficult thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALWORTH: And this is not just happening, Neil, during the holiday season. There's some other timelines that are coming into play adding to that uncertainty.

This goes into effect at the end of December. And then just five days later, de Blasio is out and Eric Adams takes office. And he has yet to say, Neil, whether or not he will be enforcing this mandate.

CAVUTO: Incredible.

Madison, thank you very, very much.

To lawyer extraordinaire Mercedes Colwin.

When I don't understand a legal issue, I call Mercedes up. And this one, I don't understand. He's going to be out of office in three weeks. This takes effect days before he formally leaves. Can he do this?

MERCEDES COLWIN, FOX NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Always great to be on with you, Neil.

Yes, he can. Under the umbrella of public safety and public health, it gives tremendous power to the local government. And that's what he's doing here. Frankly, the mayor in just these final weeks is putting in an extraordinary mandate in place, which has already been tried not in this expansive scope, but several of the lawsuits seeking similar mandates in New York, they have tried repeatedly.

NYPD tried when there was that the vaccine mandate against the police officers. They failed in state court. Another action was brought into federal court by another group of individuals that felt that these vaccine mandates actually violated their rights, their religious beliefs. That was also defeated by the Second Circuit, which is the court of appeals on the federal side.

So, yes, he can do so, because it's got such broad powers.

CAVUTO: But isn't this different, Mercedes, in that we're talking about private enterprise, though? We're talking private enterprise.

COLWIN: Sure.

CAVUTO: Isn't that a little different here?

COLWIN: Well, the one in the federal courts was a private group that brought it under these -- under this religious mandate, saying that the fact that some of these vaccine mandates are specifically not giving a carve-out for religious beliefs, that's problematic.

That was defeated in the court of appeals. So, yes, there's no doubt they will be, I'm sure, some mass action, some class action. Something is going to be brought into the court saying that businesses like the business that you profiled during -- just moments ago, where this could be really devastating to the smaller businesses if this the vaccine mandate is required.

And we will have to see what the courts decide. But there's already showing that courts are agreeing that these mandates are permitted. And they're permitted to be promulgated and enforced.

CAVUTO: All right, but, sometimes, they can be justified if the numbers justify the sweeping action.

And in New York, ironically, things have been improving on the whole virus front.

COLWIN: Right.

CAVUTO: And the number of vaccinated has hit an all-time high.

I'm just wondering whether that would mitigate that or provide fodder for those challenging it.

COLWIN: So, there's -- there are cases similar to that where there have been arguments exactly like that, that they're talking about the numbers being so small, the fact that these -- there are precautions being -- taking place in the environment. Therefore, some extreme measures like these vaccine mandates are not required.

And we still see over and over again the judges are saying and courts beyond just the local courts saying that these vaccine mandates under this huge umbrella of public safety during a health crisis is permitted. And that's -- we will have to see what ends up happening ultimately, but, so far, all of these challenges, not just in this jurisdiction in New York, but jurisdictions around the country, they're giving into these mandates and saying that it's permitted because of the health crisis, the overall world health crisis that we're in under COVID-19.

CAVUTO: Yes, why now? That was the only question.

All right, Mercedes, thank you very, very much, Mercedes Colwin following all of that.

In the meantime, back to Omicron, the variant that has everyone worried. What we discovered about it is, it is indeed very contagious. But here's why stocks were racing today. It's been deemed not remotely dangerous. Are they right?

After this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: Maybe New York's mayor was looking at Norway here and contemplating this crackdown on demanding vaccines for virtually everybody, private businesses as well, in New York.

The Norwegian government is introducing some stricter rules to deal with a COVID-19 series of spikes and is limiting the number to 10 individuals at most who can be at a home even through the Christmas holiday. You have more than that, I guess you got the Norwegian police knocking at your door.

Be that as it may, it is also shortly going to be closing restaurants to serving any liquor after midnight, again, to deal with this spike in cases that seemed relatively tame, but maybe a sign of things to come with Omicron if it gets out of hand?

So far, this new variant doesn't seem to be worldwide the problem some feared it would. It's certainly very, very contagious. But as for whether it's dangerous, not so much. At least, that's the early read.

To Dr. Kevin Campbell, the K Roc Consulting president and CEO, cardiologist.

Doctor, first off, what do you make of what Norway's doing right now, not as sweeping as some of the measures, for example, countries like Austria are taking, but taking them nevertheless?

DR. KEVIN CAMPBELL, CARDIOLOGIST: I think they're responding to a spiking cases, which is very different than what you were discussing with regards to New York City just a moment ago.

I think they are -- they're assessing the situation and responding to it. And I think that's what we have to do on the local level. I think making sweeping mandates all across the board is the wrong way to approach this virus.

CAVUTO: All right, in the meantime, with Omicron, I mean, that's the read you get on it, Doctor.

Now, you're the medical expert, so I will defer to you, but I'm just going on what the markets we're doing today, responding to this notion, maybe seizing on what's happening in Asia and Europe, where their markets went up because they think that, while this is something to watch, it's not something to watch out for, that it's not the worry they feared it was.

Are they getting ahead of themselves?

CAMPBELL: I don't think so.

I think that many of us advised watchful waiting as Omicron emerged. And we talked about the fact that we need a little time to see how very late it is, what this disease severity looks like, and how transmissible. And in the early phases now, we see that it's very transmissible, but people don't seem to be getting as sick, with one caveat.

CAVUTO: Right.

CAMPBELL: The unvaccinated, they are getting sick, and very sick. Those with vaccines, they seem to be doing pretty well, with very mild symptoms.

CAVUTO: You and I have talked about this before, Doctor, about the number of people unvaccinated who are not moved by these latest Omicron developments, instead using it as proof that vaccines don't work.

This happens in a heavily vaccinated world, and they say, the hell with it. What do you say?

CAMPBELL: I think it's really unfortunate, because I think this is actually just the opposite. It proves that vaccines do work.

What we're seeing is, instead of everyone dying from a new variant every time a new variant happens, we're seeing that we are having some resistance to it, some immunity to it. Vaccines aren't there to make sure that no one gets sick at all. Vaccines are there to prevent severe disease, severe illness and debilitation.

So I think they're doing their job and they're doing their job quite well.

CAVUTO: Doctor, always great catching up with you, Dr. Kevin Campbell, cardiologist, K Roc Consulting president and CEO.

CAMPBELL: Thank you.

CAVUTO: We will keep you abreast if other countries besides Norway take even more aggressive moves. But, right now, it does seem to be limited, just a couple of countries doing that sort of thing.

In the meantime, the president's push to get something under history that he really, really wants, but, increasingly, looks like he's going to have a really, really tough time getting it -- after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, somewhere between or after settling the debt ceiling thing is the Build Back Better thing, and, right now, the Build Back Better thing is looking like a dicey thing.

But I don't know. Chad Pergram does. He's on Capitol Hill.

Chad, where are we on all of this?

CHAD PERGRAM, FOX NEWS SENIOR CAPITOL HILL PRODUCER: Well, right now, there is an agreement between Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell on raising the debt ceiling. Democrats will do the heavy lifting. They will provide the votes on the debt ceiling itself.

But Democrats needed a GOP green-light.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: We want a simple majority, without a convoluted, risky, lengthy process. And it looks like the Republicans will help us facilitate that. It's not done until it's done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: GOP members won't actually vote to lift the debt limit, but they will assist on procedure that helps the Senate reach the actual debt limit vote.

Twice before, Mitch McConnell said the GOP would not assist. But here they are.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: What do you say when you drew those two red lines, and now saying, oh, we're going to help indirectly raise the debt ceiling?

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Well, the red line is intact.

The red line is that you have a simple majority party-line vote on the debt ceiling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: We don't expect actual votes on the debt ceiling until next week. The deadline is December 15.

Democrats are also crashing to complete their social spending bill. There's concern about inflation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): I'm just basically a realist. There's an awful lot there and a lot of changes to be done. And you're throwing it at a time when it's very vulnerable in our economy, and basically where we are, and American public, as far as the strategy that they have, trying to make it through some challenging times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERGRAM: Democrats hope to finish the bill by Christmas, but that will be tough -- Neil.

CAVUTO: Chad Pergram, thank you.

To Republican Senator Roy Blunt, what he thinks happens now in the next few weeks.

What do you think, Senator?

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): Well, I think it's impossible for them to get to this big spending package by the end of the year.

And, frankly, the longer it's out there, the more time people have to think about it and look at it, and wonder how all the things that Democrats are saying could be true. They say they're going to totally remake the economy and they're going to transform American society, and it's not going to cost anything.

So nobody believes that. And I think people are going to begin to look at this more closely. Frankly, I think time is on the side of the people who would prefer that this not pass, that we try to stay with the tax policies and the regulatory policies that we have had for the past four years that were producing really good results right before COVID hit.

And we clearly see the economy already heating up and on the way back, maybe heating up too quickly.

CAVUTO: So, if this were to get pushed back into the new year, it just seems very unlikely it happens at all at that time.

BLUNT: Well, I think very unlikely, I'm not sure I'd say that, but I would say it's certainly less likely that it happens.

And let's say you get to the -- into February or March. If you get to -- Neil, if you get to January, it's pretty hard to imagine, if you come back and start again in January, that you would get done before February or so.

And I think you're -- I think you're exactly right. I think it makes it much harder for them to get this done than it would have been six months ago. And every -- every day people have a chance to look at this and try to add up the things that just don't add up, I think there's going to be less public support.

And, every day, Democrats get closer to the next election, some of them are going to have to decide, do I want to stay in the Congress, or do I want to vote on this purely partisan bill that no Republicans, House or Senate, will be voting for?

CAVUTO: So that's still the way it stands, right, Senator? No Republican votes are likely?

So, these reports that some Democrats are trying to arm-twist some members in your party, it's not going anywhere, right?

BLUNT: I don't think that's going anywhere. And, frankly, I think the arm- twisting is going to be them and having to twist arms on their own side.

And, again, the -- we get into some of the earliest primaries by March. People began to think more about the election. They look at the president's numbers. They look at the inflation numbers, and just wonder if they can add one more thing to that they can explain and have a chance to come back.

It's certainly likely that we have a Republican House and probably a Republican Senate anyway. But the size of that margin could be affected by how Democrats who are currently here decide they're going to vote on this package after the 1st of the year.

CAVUTO: What do you think, Senator, while I have you, your former colleague Senator Perdue taking on in a primary Governor Kemp in Georgia, apparently at the behest of President Trump?

Do you think this is a seat that was a gimme for Republicans that might not be now?

BLUNT: Well, I don't know how that's going to work out in Georgia.

I can barely handle Missouri politics and figuring them out, and particularly primary election politics.

CAVUTO: Yes.

BLUNT: Again, a lot will happen between now and what's a fairly late primary in Georgia. And we will just have to see.

Certainly, we thought Senator Perdue did a good job of while he was here. And I guess we will have to see what Georgia Republicans think about that.

CAVUTO: Yes, it was a very close race, to your point.

Senator Roy Blunt, thank you. Very good seeing you again.

BLUNT: Great to be with you.

CAVUTO: All right, Roy Blunt on all of that.

You remember JetBlue founder Dave Neeleman? He's at it again. He's had a number of successful airlines, but this one, his Breeze Airways, is getting a lot of attention, if, for nothing else, than some fares that start as low as 39 bucks.

The JetBlue founder is here next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO: All right, get ready for some more packed flights this holiday season, if Thanksgiving was any example, and especially if my next guest has anything to say about it, because JetBlue founder David Neeleman's new airline, Breeze Airways, is out expanding rapidly across the country, with some fares starting as low as $39.

David Neeleman, the JetBlue founder, with us right now.

Dave, very good to see you.

DAVID NEELEMAN, FOUNDER AND CEO, BREEZE AIRWAYS: Thank you, Neil. Thanks for having me on.

CAVUTO: I have learned over the years covering you, Dave, that never to doubt what you're doing. It's a crowded marketplace. And, obviously, it can be a frustrating one for many travelers, who equate air travel these days with like going to the dentist.

So what do you offer them? What do you tell them?

NEELEMAN: Well, we serve convenient airports, and we serve it close to where people want to go.

And all of our flights are nonstop. You don't have to make a connection through a hub. We started out with this idea and said, let's get people there for half the price twice as fast. And it's really resonating with our customers. We have only been flying for like five months, and 30 percent of our customers are repeat customers. So they love flying on Breeze, and we're getting great survey NPS scores.

CAVUTO: All right, so New York, West Palm Beach, et cetera.

What are some of the markets you're focusing on?

NEELEMAN: Well, out of Islip, we just announced yesterday service just to Norfolk and to Charleston.

And New Yorkers, if you go to Charleston -- and I have been there. It's a great city.

CAVUTO: It is.

NEELEMAN: It seems like everyone's a New Yorker down there.

(LAUGHTER)

NEELEMAN: So -- and Norfolk is great, Virginia Beach, and Williamsburg.

And so if you're on -- you're out on Long Island and, hey, let's go somewhere this weekend, fare is $39, or $49, or $59, whatever. You can hop out on a Thursday or a Friday and come back on a Sunday or Monday. And it's great change of scenery. You can eat new food, live music, all the things that we want to do to get back to normal life after we have been through this kind of miserable time the last year-and-a-half.

CAVUTO: Now, mask requirements are, I guess, going to stay in effect through March, next March.

Do your customers not like that and this -- all the hassle of flying in general? I'm sure a very different experience for your airline, but you have heard the legendary stories of fights on planes and the rest, that people are frazzled.

NEELEMAN: Well, yes, we started this airline the notion of -- that we're seriously nice.

(LAUGHTER)

NEELEMAN: And we really wanted to be the nicest airline, because it's something we could deliver on.

So I think -- I have tried to convince our people -- and it's working -- that if you come to work nice, and you treat people nice, then they're nice to you, and you like your job better.

So, I mean, what I was happy about the mandate, they didn't extend it for six months. It was just extended from kind of the middle of January to the middle of March. And, hopefully, we will get to the point where those that are concerned and worried, they can wear an N95 mask, an actual medical- grade mask, and everyone can just kind of go about their normal life.

I'd like to see that with vaccines out there...

CAVUTO: Yes.

NEELEMAN: ... and, hopefully, that we're getting some good news on the Omicron virus.

So, hopefully, maybe it's the natural vaccine we have been looking for, for a milder version. We will see how that plays out.

CAVUTO: Yes, that could play out as well.

You know that foreign travel maybe might be crimped a little bit. I think of your former carrier with trips to Brazil back and forth. Do you worry that it does hurt the industry, but maybe, for what you're doing now with Breeze Airways, would feed into the demand for safer domestic travel?

NEELEMAN: It does.

More so, though, there's been a pullback from a lot of flights to smaller cities. So that's what we do. We fill in the gaps. We have 40 routes, and every single one of them, save maybe one or two, have no nonstop competition.

CAVUTO: All right.

NEELEMAN: So we're just filling in the gaps where the big guys -- if you live in cities like Charleston and Norfolk, you usually have to -- you have to make a connection before -- to go anywhere.

And so we have just said, don't have to make a connection. It's greener to go nonstop. And you can get there quicker. And you can -- it cost us less money, so we pass that savings along.

CAVUTO: Got it.

NEELEMAN: So, that's -- you know, we're -- it's a win-win for everybody.

CAVUTO: All right, let's hope so.

Everyone, stay calm. Stay calm, right, Dave?

Dave Neeleman.

NEELEMAN: Stay calm.

CAVUTO: Breeze Airways is the airline.

Finally on this day, remembering something special. There's been a lot of remembrances of that day the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

If I can just relay a story from my dad on that day, watching that day as a young kid, the very next day signing up to join the service.

I can remember, as a stupid teenager, having the nerve to ask him: "Dad, did you ever think of going to Canada?" Of course, that was at the time of the Vietnam War and everything else.

Now, after launching me into orbit, he left it at that: "You did what you had to do. I had to do it."

And he did. And so the did generation known as the greatest ever do just that. Remembering them on this special day.

Good night.

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