What are US options for dealing with the North Korea nuclear menace?

NEWYou can now listen to Fox News articles!

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 8, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Richard Fowler, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It is 9:00 in New York City and this is "The Five."

As North Korea is becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, they may have crossed a key threshold. Something the world has been fearing for years. The north has successfully developed mini nuclear warheads that can fit inside missiles capable of reaching the United States. Today, President Trump delivered one of the toughest responses we have heard so far.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. He has been very threatening, beyond a normal statement. And as I said, they will be met with fire, fury, and frankly, power at the likes of which this world has never seen before.


PERINO: A short while after that, North Korea issued a new threat, its examining plans to attack the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam. So, what are America's options for dealing with the menace?


GEN. TONY THOMAS, HEAD OF U.S. SPECIAL OPS COMMAND: There is always a military option. It's why you pay $600 billion a year.


To have a military option. It's an ugly, ugly option. But you cannot play elements of power and then discount that there is no military option.


PERINO: For more insight, let's bring in General Jack Keane, former army vice chief of staff and Fox News military analyst. Sir, the North Koreans want the nuclear weapons so that they can preserve its regime. But if they use nuclear weapons, it would be the end of its regime. So, where are we tonight?

GENERAL JACK KEANE, FOX NEWS MILITARY ANALYST: You know, that calculation actually is much more than that. Kim Jong-un has departed from his grandfather and his father, who wanted nuclear weapons as you've suggested to preserve the regime. But Kim Jong-un has come to a different calculation. Therefore, his strategy is different. He believes that the only way to preserve the regime -- there's only one country that would change the regime out. That is the United States.

And he believes the only way to stop the United States from doing that and he's paranoid about the United States -- is that you have to hold the American people at risk. And that is why we have this accelerated program of ballistic missile development and intercontinental ballistic missiles that have the capability to deliver a nuclear warhead. And furthermore, he strategizes this way, that once he achieves that capability -- in his mind -- the United States will acquiesce and accept that capability much as the United States accepted the development of nuclear weapons ten years ago and much as the United States 40 years ago except to China developing intercontinental ballistic missiles over our proto-stations.

And they developed the atomic bombs. That's where they are coming from. And they believe they need that ability to checkmate the United States in terms of the military adventurism. And number two, they believe eventually we're going to accept the capability.

PERINO: All right. General, we are going to take it around the table. So, let's start with Kimberly.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: All right. General Keane, thanks for being on "The Five" with us tonight. So, late-breaking details, President Trump taking a very strong stance and letting North Korea know that he won't stand for this kind of behavior. What do you think the strategy for the United States should be going forward and if I can get your comment on the latest development regarding Guam?

KEANE: Yes. Well, let's just deal with both of those issues. First of all, I'd like to give the President a do over on that statement.


KEANE: You know, clearly what he's talking about is the military option. And the President and his team deserve credit since the inauguration, of putting the military option back on the table in a credible way that the Obama administration never had on the table. Nobody in the regime believed that President Obama had that military option on the table even though he talked about it early on in his administration.

I think when the President is going to talk about the potential response to the United States, I believe the words that he used should be measured and very clear about what he's talking about. This leads to misinterpretation, what he said. Because implied in his statement is that based on their threats, and that could be verbal threats, we would go to nuclear war. And we know we are not going to do that.

Therefore, the statement is incredible. But what's credible is that military option is back on the table. North Korea's response to that, about hitting Guam with missiles is sabre-rattling. They are not going to do that. Because that would absolutely destroy North Korea as a country, as an entity. And the Chinese would not let that happen either. And it's unfortunate this rhetoric is going back -- I think we should stay out of the rhetoric business with North Korea and stay measured in terms of what our response is.

PERINO: All right. We'll go to Greg Gutfeld.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hey, general. I don't know, this is the first time I've ever seen a Western leader respond to North Korea using their actual language. And I am wondering if this is just another way of President Trump negotiating from a very powerful point of view. One that they understand, using words like -- but are easily translatable -- like fire and fury. But it might, I want to go back to what Dana said in the beginning that if they strike first, it's completely over for them. So, if we do nothing, theoretically, nothing happens. Am I right?

KEANE: That certainly -- that's the equation that people want to believe. The problem we have is because of the kind of regime that North Korea has, we cannot treat North Korea the way we treat other great power competitions. Namely the Soviet Union in the past and now Russia and also China, who possess significant amount of nuclearize ICBMs. Because of the erratic nature of the North Korean regime, we don't believe and I don't know anybody that does except people on the far left, that you can use mutually assured destruction as the deterrence for North Korea ever using those weapons against the United States.

We don't believe that. So, what we want to happen is that they don't get the capability and that's the path we are heading on. And the path to them not having this capability, nuclear rise ICBMs. It has already one path, and that is China. And we are on that path but we are not close to getting where we need to be. We are on a collision course with China. You are going to see us get really tough with China because I don't think China will behave necessarily in a way that Ambassador Haley wants them to behave.

I think that they are going to come up short and we are going to have to really go after China and their interest with Korea but also their interest in the region. We will going to have to put significant geopolitical and economic pressure on China.

PERINO: All right. Jesse Watters.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: So, General, it seems like there are a few options here. United States either accepts a nuclearize North Korea and it is almost like the Soviet Union where you just kind of live under that blackmail scenario. Or, our offensive capabilities will just take them out. You have the B52s, you have the ground base. ICBM. You have the ones in the subs too. And that just obliterates them and then you have a huge crisis on your hand. Or third option, a coup or an assassination attempt. What do you think the chances are of a targeted assassination attempt, a decapitation strategy in North Korea?

KEANE: There is a possibility of that happening. And that would be something that was engineered by the Chinese. And because they want to change out their leadership, in thinking that the leadership is not responding to them. But listen, this is what we've got to recognize. North Korea has nuclear weapons because the Chinese wanted them to have nuclear weapons. They wanted them to be the dominant power on the Peninsula.

North Korea has intercontinental ballistic missiles that looked remarkably similar to the Chinese in a continental ballistic missile at a portable missiles. I bet anything, if we went up and pulled off the label, we would see "Made in China" during those parades. So, that, you have to understand how close these countries are. The intellectual property they are using is Chinese. Some of the major parts they're using is Chinese.

So, China has their hands all over this thing. The path through this has got to be through China. And there is a possibility, because of the pressure that China will start to put on North Korea, and if they get resistance, that would lead them to make the regime change. In other words, assassinate them and put somebody else in his place that is complicit with them and would respond to their guidance. That's still a reasonable option that could be down the road.

PERINO: All right. Richard Fowler.

RICHARD FOWLER, GUEST CO-HOST: Thanks. All right. General, thank you for being on "The Five" tonight. So, talking about those delivery systems, what options do we have with destroying those delivery systems tactically? Are Air Force to actually destroy that delivery system so they can use the warheads?

KEANE: Yes. Well, we can, the best way to deal with the delivery system is to destroy it before it lifts the missile off the launch pad. That way you guaranteed the destruction of that capability. What Kim Jong-un is no fool and what he has said to us that anybody conducts an unprovoked attack on any of my military capabilities, that is war on the Peninsula. And I will conduct an immediate invasion of South Korea with every rocket and missile I have and also nuclear weapons.

That is the threat that he is holding over us to prevent us from exercising that kind of a military action. That's offensive in nature. The rest of our military action is dealing with a delivered system are defensive. And that is, to shoot the system down at sea or they shoot it when it's up in space using the ground-based midcourse missiles, 44 of them that are in Alaska and also in California.

That is not an option that we want have to use because that's a system that's heading towards some population center in the United States and we are totally dependent on a bullet killing a bullet in thin air. We have capability to do it but we also have missed 50 or 60 percent of the time with the system that I am describing to you right now.

PERINO: General, I was going to let you go, but let me ask you one last question. Their moms and dads, they are trying to explain this to their kids tonight. There are kids that did not grow up in the cold war as a lot of us here at the table did. Minus a couple here. That, you know, we were sort of used to this idea that this is new to them and the anxiety level is really high, there was a CBS poll tonight that says that 72 percent of Americans are absolutely concerned about this and actually starting to get scared. What would you advise them tonight in terms of talking to their kids or just trying to calm the situation down? Was that anxiety level going up?

KEANE: Well, here are some things we should take solace with. President Trump, although he is inexperienced with foreign policy and National Security has great instincts about it and he's got an intuitive sense about it. I know that from personal conversations. Secondly, he has got one of the best National Security teams wrapped around him that this country has ever had.

These are steady, calm, measured people that have been in and out of crisis all their adult lives. This is good news for us. I believe that we will avoid war with North Korea. Because we are going to take the action necessary with China to force them into a position that will create change. It's the only option that makes any sense and once China understands that, then we are going to make some real progress with them.


KEANE: I was watching on a previous show on FOX today. By the way, FOX has got this story absolutely 100 percent correct.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

KEANE: By comparison to the other channels. I asked one of our senior guys, what is the percentage of going to war? Sixty or 70 percent. I don't buy that at all. I think we're going to avoid war. It's not that we shouldn't be concern. Come on, this is a crisis. This is dangerous. But we've got study people here who know what they are doing.

PERINO: I'm glad I asked the question.


PERINO: Thank you, General. We turned to another crisis for the Trump administration ahead. That's one here at home. The opioid epidemic. The President today said, we will win the battle to save American lives from addictive drugs. That's next.


WATTERS: During the campaign, President Trump promised to make the battle against opioid addiction a top priority in his administration. Today, addressed the crisis after being briefed on ways to combat the deadly epidemic.


TRUMP: Nobody is safe from this epidemic that threatens young and old, rich and poor, urban and rural communities. Everybody is threatened. The best way to prevent drug addiction and overdose is to prevent people from abusing drugs in the first place.


WATTERS: So, Kimberly, the President has a big heart on this issue. Very compassionate. A lot of people don't know this but President Trump's brother passed away from addiction. And this means a lot to him. You can tell by the way he speaks about it.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. He's, you know, experienced the personal ravages of this in his own family. And this was one of the key points, you know, during the campaign, and he talked about it during the election as did Governor Christie. But, you know, what you here is see him talking about prevention. I like that idea about making sure that people don't become addicted, programs, education, awareness that needs to happen early on. Even in grade schools.

You know, grammar schools across this country to prevent children from, you know, even getting involved. But you have to understand especially with like painkillers or prescription medications or other things like that. People are having trouble with that as well because it's readily accessible in everybody. The medicine cabinet at home. And then also, it kills in in terms of making sure that they are prosecuting people who are doing heavy drug trafficking and that are, you know, basically, you know, preying on people and young children to get people addicted at an early age.

WATTERS: Kimberly makes the point that it does starts with the pills. And these big pharmaceutical companies, manufacturers, millions of these pills and the doctors, you know, give them to the patients, in, get them in, get them out quick fix and then people like it so much because it's so powerful that they get into the street stuff like heroin.


WATTERS: That's a big problem. You know, the pharmaceutical companies, do they have any responsibility?

FOWLER: Oh, absolutely. Big pharma is a big problem here on this one. I think there's a couple of things that have to happen. Right? I think we know that prevention is just part of it but you've got a deal with those individuals that are already addicted to opioids. I think the first thing you've got to do and I am happy the President is dealing with this. But I think the first thing that has to happen is, some sorts of program were on this legal exchange.

Those folks who are already on heroin. Make sure you have a legal exchange program. Because you have adverse effects on people that are using dirty needles, you have the spread of HIV aides and intravenous drug use and those types of needles.

GUILFOYLE: San Francisco does that.

FOWLER: Yes. And there should be needle change across the country, number one. I think the other thing and Dr. Adams who is now in the queue to be appointed to surgeon general talked about this a lot in his appointment. And I hope Democrats would appoint them and I hope that the President will give him the latitude of surgeon general to get the job done. Talking about how doctors can be part of the solution by urging patients to bring their prescription drugs back.

So, when you have opioids prescribed to you and you have 20 Percocets under your bed, you bring them back to the doctor's office instead of keeping them in your house. Right? That is the second thing. The third thing is, finding alternatives to opioids. So, instead of prescribing opioids, maybe we should talk about how we legalize marijuana as a used to treat pain. Because it's actually not addictive as opioids are. And really going after big pharma.

GUILFOYLE: These are people addicted to marijuana.

FOWLER: No. It is not as addictive as opioids.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

FOWLER: And Science show --

PERINO: I just think that the left goes after big pharma all the time. Like this is a solution we have to go after big pharma.


PERINO: And I don't think that it's necessary the right one. I understand that the state of New Hampshire is going sue Purdue Pharmaceutical, they are the ones that created the OxyContin but doctors first of all, they swear an oath.

FOWLER: Doctors are part of the problem.

PERINO: I'm disagreeing with you. Obviously there are some bad doctors and in fact Attorney General Jeff Sessions just did that whole prosecution against not only doctors but some insurance companies that were bulking money from the federal government about opioids. But big pharma, we want the innovations, it would be the alternatives, like you can go after big pharma but then you are not going to get the alternatives.

This afternoon on social report, Alicia Cuna and Denver was talking about this program where they are using different types of medicines like Lidocaine patches that would go directly on a broken ribs instead of prescribing opioids. So, there are ways to do this. But if you just want to target big pharma, you will get all tied up. And you actually won't be able to treat any actual people.

FOWLER: So, I hear that, Dana. The point I am making is like for example, when I had four wisdom teeth removed and I've had four of them removed, they gave me 45 Percocet. You don't need 45 Percocets.

GUILFOYLE: Where are they now?

FOWLER: I got rid of them. I don't need 45 Percocets.

PERINO: Doctors are taught to treat people's pain. People come in and say, they have pain and pain is just hard to diagnose. I'm sure Greg has lots of points on that. Do you think that, what was missing for me today in the President's statement is okay, so what are you going to do? And I understand there's the briefing. There's one of the councils calling for a national state of emergency? What is that turn into? And Governor Huckabee says, actually, don't do a blanket for federal program. Let the states decide. And sometimes the best solution is actually a faith based initiative. If the government could go back to allowing taxpayer dollars, it goes to some -- initiatives in those places. I think that would be a good thing.

WATTERS: I'm going to play Greg Gutfeld. Drugs are, Gutfeld, what you do about the opioid crisis?

GUTFELD: Well, number one, we have to address the fact that everything that we have said has been said about every drug since the invention of drugs. The fact is, things abuse, people abuse this drug because the drug is effective. People don't sit around and do Flintstone vitamins all day. They do this because it feels good and because life is hard. Life is painful. People have a right to their oblivion. People have a right to relieve pain. The one thing we don't talk about which you've mentioned about is that, we are forgetting that there are people who need these drugs.


GUTFELD: That people are in pain. Millions of people are in pain. I don't know how many, it's about 20,000 people die every year. Eighty eight thousand people die from alcohol abuse and we seem to -- we don't do that story. But we do this story because it is the flavor of the month. There are people that are definitely in trouble and that need help.

PERINO: Uh-hm.

GUTFELD: But the fact is, it's because this thing is so powerful and so effective that it makes you question your survival mechanism. It is something that affects your breathing, and you don't wake up. But it is so good that you just keep doing it. So, you have to figure out how to manage this. You can't throw it out. Expecting somebody to turn their drugs when they are that good -- forget about it. I wouldn't.

GUILFOYLE: Well, because friends ask you for them. Remember?

GUTFELD: Who would ever do that? I don't know. You know what? If we are okay with the risks with firearms, we were okay with the risks of alcohol but suddenly, we are not okay with the risk of something that helps millions of people. We should be addressing the balance, how to make something effective, while reducing the risk. You have helmets for bicycles, you have seat belts for cars, we need to figure out how to effectively maintain the use of this drug while preventing the overdoses. There are overdoses but there are millions of people that are watching right now that use this drug.

GUILFOYLE: Well, the concern is, the disease control since 1999, the amount of overdoses of opioids has quadrupled.

GUTFELD: No, they've gone up. But give them something better. What are you going to give somebody in pain that is better than that? Faith?


GUTFELD: Yes. Hug. I don't think so.

FOWLER: Do you think mental healthcare might tell the problem, Greg?

GUTFELD: I think that you can use both.


GUTFELD: You know? But the point is, well, this is a good question. The psychological and physical pain overlaps. During the same part of the brain.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Same basket.

GUTFELD: People want to admit that opioids are not just treating physical pain. They are treating depression. A lot of people are taking this drug for depression and it's actually more effective than antidepressants and we don't want to admit that. If we actually formulated these drugs so people could use it to deal with their psychological pain, you might have a real change in the way people live their lives.

FOWLER: So, I'm talking about therapy. There's nothing wrong with therapy, folks. There is nothing wrong with having therapy.

GUTFELD: No, I was just talking --

FOWLER: I have a therapist. There's nothing wrong with it.

WATTERS: The mainstream media didn't want you to know about the highly suspicious pre-election meeting between Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch. Now, concrete proof. The evidence, ahead.


GUTFELD: According to just-released emails, for the mainstream media covering the tarmac meeting between Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch was like pulling teeth from an inebriated shark. One email shows one Washington Post reporter lamenting to Obama's Department of Justice that, quote, "My editors are still pretty interested in this story and that he's hoping to put it to rest by answering a few more questions."

A The New York Times scribe emailed the DOJ public affairs director saying he had been pressed into service to write about it. The tone is of an apologetic teacher who doesn't like giving detention but does because others do.

The DOJ flack in an email said an ABC producer told her they aren't interested in this story, even if FOX -- evil FOX -- runs with it. It's like they are saying they are still on your side, unlike FNC who still thinks the story mean something.

Now, this isn't mind-blowing at all. They did the story anyway. But it gives you a peek into the mindset of people who don't just write the stories but shape the agenda. Meaning they try to persuade viewers by diminishing some stories you think matter, like Benghazi and the IRS scandal, and playing up others like Russia, or Russia, or Russia. They aren't just presenters of news but curators manipulating the significance of a story by controlling its exposure.

The fact is, everyone played down the tarmac story in order to help Hillary. The good news? It didn't work.

Dana, a clear example of media bias. Am I right?

PERINO: I disagree.

GUTFELD: Than I am out of here!


The only way to win an argument is when I leave.

PERINO: Maybe it was the ABC producer saying we are not interested in it, even if Fox does and I could see that. Of course, we do this here. Every news station had an assignment editor. They decide what to cover.

GUTFELD: We will cover anything and everything.

PERINO: If you look at what a couple news reporters said, reporters always do this. Especially when I work at the Department of Justice like 10:00 p.m. on a Saturday, I am so sorry, my editors are really frustrating me, because it is a way for them to prevent themselves from being yelled at.

GUTFELD: They knew you were home.

PERINO: All, probably.

GUTFELD: I couldn't resist.

PERINO: They always apologize for bothering people. And lead to the semi- recusal of Loretta Lynch as we all know about.

GUTFELD: There you go. Jesse this story was bigger than Watergate.

WATTERS: Yes, but they can cover it. The media bias is not just about what they report. It's about what they don't report. Usually the media covers, you know for Republican scandals but they cover up Democratic scandals, I would like to disagree with Dana a little bit, if this happened in a vacuum, and this is a reporter sending an email, you know my boss is making me cover, that is fine. But the WikiLeaks shows they collude with Democrats all the time. These reporters were sending up stories for Democrat politicians to edit before they went to be published. We know their whole industry did that and they were exposed for it.

PERINO: I'm talking about -- the c block.

WATTERS: I'm talking about it in a broader perspective.

GUTFELD: He is putting in context here.

WATTERS: So that everybody can understand it at home, also a lot of new question arising from some of these revelations. Why when reporters are asked about this correspondence, the FBI said there was no emails about it. It turns out, there were hundreds. It was just an innocent meeting, then why did it generate hundreds of pages of email correspondence? If it's just a casual unscheduled meeting, then why did the security details of Lynch and Bill Clinton coordinate the meeting? Why did Loretta Lynch use an alias email address when she is talking about generating talking points? And told congress that she never used an alias email address?

GUILFOYLE: Why did she only have one and Eric Holder had four?

WATTERS: Exactly.

PERINO: They all did it.

WATTERS: The FBI agent told people that witnessed the meeting not to take any pictures and not to record. Why did Bill Clinton wait on the Tarmac for Lynch's plane to come in and then board the plane? He said they talked about golf. Does Loretta Lynch play golf? I want to know, Bill Clinton there is no record of him playing golf on Phoenix that day, it was 108 degrees. A lot does not add about that.

PERINO: You need a chalkboard to write everything down.

WATTERS: I need a whiteboard.

FOWLER: Quite a fishing expedition to me.

WATTERS: Really? I just caught a big one.


GUTFELD: Would reporters be apologetic if they were talking about Russia? I don't think so3. I think their enthusiasm would take over.

FOWLER: It is a nothing fish.

WATTERS: You can't use that phrase, nothing burger.

FOWLER: I said nothing fish.

WATTERS: Too close.

FOWLER: Anyway, but if you read some of these emails in particular, one email from the Washington Post that was put on their front page the next day, by the way, the journalist said I'm being dragged to cover this, because I usually cover the White House and the DOJ reporter is not in. I'm being forced to cover this, because I don't cover this assignment. I'm filling in for somebody. Like I'm filling in today, just saying, but the point I'm making -- all of these organizations covered this ad nauseam him. I mean it was wall-to-wall coverage about this Tarmac meeting. Let's not forget that everybody covered Comey's press conferences, where he cleared clay Clinton and when he said, by the way we are checking emails that almost cost her the election. When he said oh, we found all these other emails.

GUILFOYLE: We have to cover that.

FOWLER: Exactly and the media didn't cover it up. They covered it.

GUTFELD: Kimberly we know for a fact, let us admit, that they did not want to do the story, because it wasn't something that fit into their narrative.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Actually it's not so shocking because this is what we saw during the Obama administration and remembering when Ben Rhodes was laughing and blocking the media about how gullible they were? Calling them useful fools? Wow. What a way to bum your day when someone calls you that.

GUTFELD: I'm used to that.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, kind of. You are charming, at least. This is no surprise to me. They would absolutely rather cover an ant crossing the street than anything that would be detrimental to the Obama administration. So there you go.

GUTFELD: All right two so called architects of the CIA to enhance interrogation program for 9/11 about to go on trial, after being sued by terrorist suspects, they interrogated. What? That landmark case is next.

GUILFOYLE: How nuts, is this?


GUILFOYLE: Some breaking news now on the news threat today from North Korea, earlier the regime threatened up possibly nuclear strike on the U.S. territory of Guam. And we are getting word tonight at two U.S. air force b-1 bombers along with aircraft from South Korean and Japan flew over the North Korean peninsula where they practiced intercept and formation training. The mission lasted approximately 10 hours, showing a strong show of force in the region. Stay tuned to Fox News for development as they come in.

Also developing tonight, two psychologists of the architects of the CIA that enhanced interrogation program post 9/11 are headed for trial next month. The ACLU is suing Dr. James Mitchell and Bruce Jetson on behalf of three former detainees, including one who died in custody, the suit claims the men designed and administered an experimental torture program for the Intelligence agency. A federal judge has allowed it to move forward. Mitchell once interrogated the mastermind of 9/11 Khalid Sheik Mohamed and earlier this year, he maintained he and Jetson will be cleared if the case went to trial.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those things that were done by the CIA and the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks were Judged not one time but four or five times by the Department of Justice to be legal. I never heard two of these people who are suing me, until the lawsuits showed up in 2015.


GUILFOYLE: Dana, you have some strong feelings about this.

PERINO: Ok, what he just said there, he doesn't know the people that are actually suing him on their behalf? I find the ACLU defending them is shameful. This is definitely a left-wing attack on these two men. They were public servants and they were asked by the government to do something very difficult. None of us would want to do that, but they did. I know and I am confident that their actions saved lives, especially that Khalid Sheik Mohamed interrogation. If this was a criminal case, I would recommend the President to issue a pardon.

It's not, it's a civil case. That is probably why they did it this way, because they cannot bring a criminal case against these guys. I do think the President should comment on this. I think it merits his attention. I think you should offer them his support. I think to build goodwill that he needs with the Intel community. And I also think it would show people like the ACLU that we are going to stand behind our men and women in uniform and the intelligence community when they need to do the very necessary things they do to protect us from terrorist.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. They didn't do anything illegal. They were following orders, they were doing their jobs. I think it's an excellent point, Dana. The President should stand up on their behalf. Do a tweet, make a public statement. Do something to show his support. In regard to what they did in the service they did for their country.

GUTFELD: I think one of the problems is that people don't know how to frame the war on terror. They act like when you're fighting the war on terror, you are fighting something like childhood obesity. Fighting terror requires different rules and fighting other things. Terror actually wins if you follow traditional rules. They expect you as a civilization not to do the thing that might actually win.

Liberals on the left will tell you that if you torture, you sacrifice the values that your country is based on, to which I would say "shut up." trying to save hundreds of thousands of lives is of value. If that requires doing some things that don't follow the rules -- I mean, there is no normal protocol when you are fighting demons. We have to understand that and deal with it realistically. These guys were charged with doing something that they could go to jail for, maybe. They still go and did it and so would you if you knew that somebody's kid's life was on the line.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, Jesse.

WATTERS: These psychologists are patriots and the ACLU makes me sick. Former CIA Director Leon Panetta, and George, Republican and Democratic both have said that it enhanced interrogation led to intelligence that led to the assault on the Bin Laden compound. It also broke up terror cells and it also preventative mass casualty attacks and also enabled us to gain knowledge of the infrastructure, the network, and financing of the Al Qaeda network. SEALS are waterboarded. This is not like you hammering a nail into someone's hand or breaking bones like they do in many other countries.

GUILFOYLE: Meaning it is part of their training in order to become --

WATTERS: Exactly. Jose Rodriguez, who ran the CIA's counterterrorism center for about three years after 9/11 said it's not torture when you are making someone feel pain so they have to scream out what they know in order to stop the pain. This was in order to change their behavior and make them more compliant. To give them a sense of hopelessness and despair so in order to make it stop, they will then squeal. Obama carved out an exemption when he banned enhanced interrogation. He said we are going to ban it but if there is a ticking time bomb situation, I reserve the right to water board someone. It can't be that bad, given that Obama was going to do it.

GUILFOYLE: That establishes the veracity of it. It works if he still carved out an option to do it when there were exigent circumstances. Richard.

FOWLER: I don't agree with enhanced interrogation but Dana here is something that changed my mind on this particular case, Dana. He didn't know the individual. That is what changed my mind on this particular case. I don't agree with enhanced interrogation, because I believe in article three of the Geneva Convention that says torture and inhumane treatment --

WATTERS: They are not covered by the Geneva Convention.

FOWLER: No, I get that part, but I do still believe that as Americans, I don't care what it is that the ideal that we can't change who we are because of terrorism, we can't cower to terror, we shouldn't bear them.

WATTERS: Max before you are not cowering when you --

FOWLER: We have to continue being who we are, continue living with our morals.

WATTERS: It could have been a lot a lot worse.

FOWLER: Wait a minute.

WATTERS: Sleep deprivation?

FOWLER: Our Judeo-Christian values have to continue to persist no matter what happens to our country, period.

GUTFELD: Well I am not so can torture.

FOWLER: That is not torture that is not waterboarding that is not breaking people's bones to get some information out of somebody. But Dana's argument changed my opinion on this particular case.

GUILFOYLE: All right Bill Maher has some to (inaudible) -- making a mockery of a 9-year-old who supports President Trump. The outrage is ahead.


FOWLER: Last month, White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders read a letter allowed from a little Trump fan.


SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: My name is Dylan but everybody calls me pickle. I am nine years old and you are my favorite President. I like you so much that I had a birthday about you. My cake was the shape of your hat.


FOWLER: She later shared a copy of the letter on Twitter. When Bill Maher returned to his HBO show on Friday, he made a lot of folks upset by daring to mock it.


BILL MAHER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: My name is Dylan. This kid is nine years old. It's more of an indictment on the educational system. I don't blame the kid. Whoever taught him is at the age of nine? My cake was shape -- see me -- the shape of your hat? How old -- are is spelled r a.


FOWLER: I'm a progressive but this guy is a jerk at best, number one. Number two, we already know he is a racist. And number three, he gets no apologies for me, Greg your thought.

GUTFELD: You know I have to say the worst thing about Bill Maher is his audience. Because they are a group of mindless clapping seals that will laugh for a plot even when he uses the n-word, it's virtue signaling in the round. They agree with everything that he says. That is something that is so pathetic.


PERINO: Children's mail is the best and he probably doesn't get any.

FOWLER: Jesse?

WATTERS: I just like the name pickle. I think it's a cute name. I want to know how he came up with that nickname, Pickle.

GUTFELD: He likes pickles.

GUILFOYLE: Even nice reasonable parents will hate him too because the worst thing about Bill Maher everything about him. How do know if that child has learning differences were special needs or struggling in school and now you just mock and humiliated him? I hope he grows up and takes his job.


FOWLER: Bill Maher, you are this week's cyber bully and "One more thing" is up next.


PERINO: It is time now for one more thing. I will go first, this is last night that I have a good one and let take you to the West County Junior Rodeo, held in New Castle, Wyoming. This is Emeree Tavegie. She won the all-around girls junior girls all around. She is only seven years old. She has three older brothers. She was a star. She competed against a Jocelyn Perino, who is my cousin, Jill's daughter. Get this.


PERINO: She has a horse named Trouble. He is 13. That is her brother on the far right. He will knock the junior boys. A big-time family, she is my second cousin once removed. Congratulations, I think we have a little clip of her, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love my new saddle.


PERINO: There you go. Congratulations, Emeree. Jesse.

WATTERS: All of basic cable for the 31st week in a row, congratulations everybody. Also, Fox News won prime time as well. Congratulations to "The Five," "Hannity," and Tucker and everyone else in the lineup. Also, CNN was beaten by Cartoon Network and also Nickelodeon and among other stations. Better luck next time.

GUTFELD: How can you tell the difference between CNN and the Cartoon Network? I don't know. We will be right back.

PERINO: It's your turn.

GUTFELD: Greg's slow news day. As you know, it is a very slow Tuesday. Nothing's going on. Let's look at a dog eating a piece of something. Very slow, I think it's a stick. Jesse. It is a stick. There is no news. That is as good video. Look at this dog licking a stick.

PERINO: Is that a meme?

GUILFOYLE: I don't get it.

GUTFELD: I don't know. It could be.

PERINO: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I actually have one that is good. Country music star Glen Campbell has died at the age of 81 after a long and courageous battle with Alzheimer's. His family announced with the heaviest of hearts, grandfather and father, legendary singer and guitarist -- Glen Campbell at the age of 81 and his battle with Alzheimer's. And if you recall, he is a legend behind the hits "Wichita Lineman" and "By the Time I Get to Phoenix." That he recently released his final studio album. He was diagnosed with Alzheimer's six years ago. Real quick he won five Grammy's so he sold more than 45 million records, 75 chart hits, including number one song "Rhinestone Cowboy" and "Southern Nights." Well God bless him.

PERINO: That is a great song. Let's play that tomorrow. Richard. What's her name? Richard. Sorry, Richard!

FOWLER: Both my parents are Jamaican that makes me a Jamaican American. This past Sunday, we joined with millions across the world celebrating 55 years of independence.

GUILFOYLE: Congratulations.

FOWLER: The most notable Jamaican, the fastest man in the world --

WATTERS: The Americans just beat him, though. Sorry about that.

FOWLER: Naomi Campbell, the supermodel and at the legendary reggae artist, Bob Marley. Happy Independence Day, Jamaica.

PERINO: Jamaican my day by being here, Richard.

FOWLER: And Jamaica had a bobsled team, if you didn't know that.

GUILFOYLE: That was fun.

PERINO: Anyone else have anything to say?

WATTERS: "Watters' World," Saturday, a big show the Saturday night.


GUTFELD: He beat me by 3,000 people.

GUILFOYLE: Jesse Watters never misses an opportunity.

PERINO: All right I got to go. Set your DVRs and never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.