Pennsylvania officials warn of delays in tabulating election results

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Pennsylvania officials warn of delays in tabulating election results

High mail-in ballot volume, potential legal challenges could slow vote counting; Bryan Llenas reports.

This is a rush transcript from “Your World with Neil Cavuto” November 2, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is YOUR WORLD.

You are looking at a country right now that's going to be getting a lot of

attention over the next few hours, Traverse City, Michigan, where the

president will be rallying soon, in Pittsburgh, where the former vice

president will be speaking soon, in Miami, where we understand now the

polls are tightening rapidly.

And keep in mind, in Florida, so many have already voted, that count is

going to be confusing to read. And in New York City, where a lot of shop

stores are boarding up, on fears of escalated violence or at least

disturbances, no matter who wins and even if we do not know tomorrow night.

Let's get the latest read right now from John Roberts, who's following all

this closely, traveling with the president of the United States.

Hey, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT:  Neil, good

afternoon to you.

President Trump just completed his final rally in Pennsylvania for the 2020

campaign, talking for about an hour and 15 minutes, despite the fact that

the wind is blowing here at 20, sometimes 25 miles an hour. And, with the

ambient temperature, it puts the windchill well down into the 20s.

But there was a big raucous crowd here today to wish the president well.

The president hopes that they will all get out and vote, because

Pennsylvania traditionally is, particularly this area where the president

is, the Scranton-Wilkes-Barre area, a late-voting area.

We saw all those almost 100 million early and mail-in ballots being cast.

But, here in Pennsylvania, they'd like to take the measure of the candidate

all the way to the end and then cast their vote.

The president appealing to people here in Pennsylvania from the standpoint

of his support for fracking and the oil industry. Of course, Joe Biden

famously at the end of that last debate said that he would like to wean the

country off of fossil fuels and end the oil industry.

Here's what the president said about that today:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  Biden's plan to ban fracking is an economic death sentence for

Pennsylvania. Biden's energy shutdown will wipe out your jobs, decimate

your towns, eliminate your factories, and send your state into a nightmare

of crippling poverty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS:  Now, when the president landed in Charlotte yesterday, before he

had the event yesterday afternoon in Hickory, North Carolina, he said that

he might have teams of lawyers ready to go election night to challenge some

of the mail-in ballots that are coming in by the millions.

And here in Pennsylvania, you have got a three-day extension past Election

Day for those ballots to be counted. In North Carolina, where the president

started his day, that deadline is nine days.

The president on a couple of occasions in Charlotte and again today blaming

the Supreme Court of the United States for allowing that to happen, saying

that he thinks that it is setting a dangerous precedent.

Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP:  And when the Supreme Court gave you an extension, they made a very

dangerous situation, and I mean, dangerous, physically dangerous, and they

made it a very, very bad -- they did a very bad thing for the state. They

did a very bad thing for this nation.

You have to have a date. You can't extend dates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS:  From here in Pennsylvania, the president is off now, when Air

Force One takes off, to Traverse City, Michigan. If the president thought

it was windy and cold here, wait until he gets there, because, Neil, they

have got gale warnings in effect for Traverse City.

The president that goes to Kenosha, Wisconsin, and, as he did in 2016,

finishes up the 2020 campaign in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The president

believes that last rally, which was suggested by Ronna McDaniel, who is now

the chairwoman of the RNC, put him over the top in Michigan. He's going to

see if he could do it again this year -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  I can always tell how bad it is for you, John, based on how much

layer of the clothing you have got on. It seems cold there.

(LAUGHTER)

ROBERTS:  It's very cold here, Neil, no question about that.

CAVUTO:  All right, but how you handled it flawlessly.

Thank you very much, my friend, John Roberts in Pennsylvania.

All right, let's go to Jacqui Heinrich. She is with team Biden, not nearly

as aggressive a campaign schedule, but some interesting stops along the

way.

Jacqui, what can you tell us?

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, Neil, big focus on

Pennsylvania for team Biden. Joe Biden's focus on Pennsylvania is really

personal.

He's always touted his Scranton roots. His campaign message is geared

toward working-class Americans. And as he wraps up his campaign in the very

same city where he started it all in August of last year, he's hitting that

final point, that message, again and again, including in Ohio today, a

state no Republican has won the presidency without, where Biden began his

tour.

Biden's now on his second of three stops in Pennsylvania, as the rest of

his team barnstorms the four corners of the state. The final message is

intended to reach a broad coalition.

But Biden's echoing remarks from his very first rally here in Pittsburgh in

2019, when he said Donald Trump duped the white working-class voters who

propelled him to the presidency by abandoning them with policies favoring

the wealthy. Biden called himself a union man and took a veiled shot at

Hillary Clinton, saying these voters didn't believe that she understood

them.

And, meanwhile, the campaign revealed their contingency plan if President

Trump declares an early victory or appeals a Supreme Court decision

allowing absentee ballots to be counted three days after the election in

this state, showing what they see as Biden's many paths to 270 and

explaining vote-counting in different states.

They said there's no basis for Trump to claim a victory on election night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN O'MALLEY DILLON, BIDEN CAMPAIGN MANAGER:  And we want to be clear with

you. If he tries to do, that will not be true. Just declaring victory

without actually having won in the kind of states that we're talking about

here is really basically trying to say that COVID is over.

We come into Election Day with several different pathways to get to 270

electoral votes. Donald Trump has a very narrow path to win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEINRICH:  And they also said that talk of violence and unrest is intended

to be suppressive. And we have also just found out that, on Election Day,

Joe Biden and other members of his team, including Kamala Harris, is going

to be in all different parts of the country.

But Biden's focus is again Pennsylvania tomorrow, going to Philadelphia and

Scranton -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, Jacqui, thank you very, very much.

You might have seen an interesting ad there on the part of Ohio and the

attention that Ohio is getting right now very late in the game.

Kevin Corke is in Columbus with more on why.

Hey, Kevin.

KEVIN CORKE, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, great to be with

you, my friend.

We're really talking a great deal about the COVID increase in cases here in

the Buckeye State. In fact, there was a record conducted on Thursday alone

in cases, more than 3,500 new cases here. That's a 24-hour record.

But I think it's also important to point out that, for context, there has

also been a surge in testing here in the Buckeye State. As I show you some

pictures, let me take you inside the numbers, Neil, again, to give you that

perspective, so you can see, yes, there is a surge in new cases, but

there's also a surge in new testing.

Here in Ohio, they have been incredibly aggressive. More than 55,000 taste

-- tests, that is, were conducted on the 30th of October alone. More than

55,000 were conducted on the 29th of October alone. Compare that to just

31,000 tests conducted on the 26th of October or 17,000-plus on the 7th of

September.

So, clearly, there is this surge in testing. And it continues to be part of

an aggressive public posture by these state lawmakers here. But we wondered

if voters felt safe while lining up to cast their ballots. Here's what they

told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE LANIER, OHIO VOTER:  As long as you wear your mask and stay social

distanced, I believe it's pretty safe.

SELENA FLOWERS, OHIO VOTER:  I feel real safe. I feel real safe and

confident.

JOSEPH BERGMAN, OHIO VOTER:  Oh, I feel pretty safe. I'm not real -- this

COVID thing doesn't really bother me that much.

DEE WEST, OHIO VOTER:  No, not safe at all. I think I'm going to go get

tested after this.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORKE:  Go get tested after this. That is somebody who is obviously very

concerned about the idea of being outside, Neil, in these very long lines.

But I can tell you this. The Biden campaign is here today. They're using

this as a central point in their sale to voters, that they can handle the

COVID-19 crisis better than the White House. Of course, the president is

tied in the RealClearPolitics average, but he also leads in most other

polling here, Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, Kevin, thank you very, very much.

There was a bit of a dust-up yesterday, as you might recall, when there

were hints that the president would declare himself a victor tomorrow night

if the polls were looking good. His campaign manager said that was not

really what the president meant.

But what would be the reaction, per this Axios article that created a --

quite a bit of stir, if the president were to pounce on early results

coming in, which day of could look good for the president, since it

necessarily, by nature, wouldn't include all of the 93-94 million ballots

already cast.

Let's go to Reid Wilson, The Hill national correspondent.

Reid, good to have you.

What do you think of that? How -- what would be the impact of either

candidate? They could say anything they want, but it's not official until,

well, it's official.

REID WILSON, THE HILL:  Right.

CAVUTO:  And neither of them can decide that.

WILSON:  It's not official until state finish their canvass, which can take

weeks and even a month in a case like California.

What this would do, though, is, it would set expectations for one

candidate's supporters or the other. If a bunch of Trump fans think that he

has won, and then he starts losing votes and losing states as more and more

ballots are counted through the night or even into the next couple days,

then we can see some serious unrest, and the same thing if former Vice

President Biden is seen as leading, and then ends up watching his lead slip

away.

So, there's some potential here for some serious unrest. And it's putting a

lot of sort of pressure on us, the news media, to get this thing right.

Now, it's important to remember that it's not up to the media to call an

election and to declare the results final. It's up to the states and the

election administrators themselves. But, I mean, I know a lot of your

colleagues and a lot of mine, we're feeling the pressure these days.

CAVUTO:  Yes, I always tell people here, I mean, I'd rather be late and

right than early and wrong,

And I think -- and then you subscribe to the same philosophy, Reid

I am curious, though, how will all these ballots, these 93-94 million that

have already been registered, how quickly will some of them be counted? I

know, in Pennsylvania, it's problematic because some of them could go on as

long as three days after the election to fully count.

And other states, like Florida, I believe, do it day of. So, can you give

me an idea how reliably we can gauge how many of those ballots will enter

into the mix of results we get tomorrow night?

WILSON:  The vast majority of them are going to be counted before midnight

tomorrow.

And, remember, those votes that you mentioned, the 90 -- I think we're up

to 96.5 million that have already been cast.

CAVUTO:  Right.

WILSON:  Those are in. Those are not in the mail. We're not waiting for

those to come in. Election administrators have those.

Now, the rules vary by state. In some states, they can count them the

moment they come in, which might have been days or weeks ago. In some of

them, some states can begin counting early the morning of Election Day, at

7:00, 8:00 a.m., when they can start counting those ballots.

CAVUTO:  Do you know what they do in Pennsylvania, Reid?

I'm thinking battlegrounds. How do they do it in states like Michigan or

Pennsylvania, where, at least in the case of Michigan, they can, while I'm

not saying take their time, but they have a good three days after election

to keep them going?

WILSON:  Yes.

Well, they have -- those three days after the election, it's important

remember, that's for the ballots that are coming in with a postmark from

Election Day.

CAVUTO:  Exactly.

WILSON:  So, a state like Pennsylvania, they can only begin counting late,

when the polls close, I think it's 7:00 p.m. on Election Day. So, those

counts are going to be slower than some other states you mentioned, like

Florida, North Carolina, that can begin counting a lot earlier.

CAVUTO:  All right, Reid, thank you very, very much.

Before I get to our next story, which concerns a scary event overseas, I do

want to bring your attention to the corner of Wall and Broad today. We had

a comeback for the Dow of better than 423 points.

Do not necessarily overread into this, just like we shouldn't have read

last week and overreading what was the worst week for the markets certainly

going back to March and near the height of the pandemic. This was a bit of

a comeback rally here. It did not, and I stress, did not include technology

stocks.

They were taking it on the chin again today. Many of them have entered

correction territory. More on that in a minute.

But now I want to bring you up to date on a development in Vienna that

Austrian police are already calling an apparent terror attack that was

focused, we are told, at a Jewish house of worship.

We know of a number injured. We're just going with the scant details we

have, but it's obviously put Vienna on high alert and elsewhere in the

greater European community.

Benjamin Hall has more now from London.

Benjamin, what can you tell us?

BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, Neil, this is a developing,

very fluid situation.

We're getting conflicting reports out of Vienna. But what we do know,

according to the interior minister, who spoke about 10 or 15 minutes ago on

air, this is a terrorist incident and there are a number of people

involved.

It started about two hours ago outside a synagogue in the center of Vienna,

the capital of Austria, around 8:00 p.m. local time. The chief Jewish

leader of the area says that the synagogue itself is now closed up and

safe.

He's not sure if that itself was the target. But what we can see from

social media videos is a quite extreme exchange of gunfire going on. And

the police are now reporting that at least one person has been dead and one

person has been injured.

But there are reports that say as many as seven people may be dead and that

the manhunt is still ongoing. Armed police have fanned out around the city.

And it does appear to be a manhunt on for whoever is still left.

Police are urging everyone to stay away, stay indoors, stay off public

transport, while they try to get this under control. As I said, it's a very

fluid situation, and we don't know exactly whether this is ongoing or not.

But there's a major police operation in the city of Vienna right in the

center at the moment.

One person certainly is dead and perhaps one more. And they are now calling

this a terrorist incident. As you say, it comes during a period of

heightened tension in Europe. We have had a number of attacks in France

over the last few weeks. And so this certainly is something that people are

taking very seriously.

And we will bring you all the details as we get them -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  Do you know, Benjamin, whether any of these, this latest attack in

Vienna is linked to any of the other ones, for example, in Paris and Lyon

and elsewhere?

HALL:  We don't know that at this moment. We don't know how many people

were involved.

We know that one person is dead and one person has been arrested. Of

course, chills that this happened near a synagogue. There were early

reports that it was targeting the synagogue directly. That's no longer

confirmed, but no connection yet to the attacks that we have seen in France

over the last few weeks -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  Benjamin Hall, thank you very much.

All right, as we focus on our elections here, reminders just how scary the

world remains, no matter who is on the ballot or what is coming next.

Stay with us. You're watching "Your World."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, right now, a warning

from the mayor to his residents:  Look, it could take several days to count

all these mail-in ballots.

That could be the state of the Keystone State in general. It has until

November 6 to get all our ballots counted, as long as they're postmarked by

November 3, the date of the election itself, tomorrow, in other words.

Let's get to read from Bryan Llenas. He's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, with

more.

Bryan, what are we learning?

BRYAN LLENAS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Yes, Neil, good afternoon.

By law in Pennsylvania, all 67 counties can only begin to open and count

mail-in ballots on Election Day morning 7:00 a.m. Philadelphia is dealing

with the most mail-in ballots. They have some 400,000 to sort through.

Here's the mayor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM KENNEY (D), MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA:  Never in the history of this city

have so many people voted by mail. That means getting a tally of mail-in

ballots will easily take a few days.

So, again, please be patient.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LLENAS:  A new ad featuring Governor Tom Wolf is playing in Pennsylvania

ensuring voters that all the ballots will be counted. Some three million

mail-in ballots have been sent.

That's about 33 percent of the state's registered voters; 2.4 million mail-

in ballots have been returned so far. Two-thirds of the mail-in ballots

were requested by registered Democrats.

Now, seven counties in Pennsylvania say they won't count mail-in ballots

until the morning after Election Day. The state's overwhelming majority of

ballots will be counted by Friday.

President Trump and Pennsylvania's Democratic Attorney General Josh Shapiro

are gearing up for a legal fight post-election potentially over the

validity of these mail-in ballots. Pennsylvania's 20 electoral votes could

hang in the ballots, as well as the presidency -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, thank you, Bryan, very, very much, Bryan Llenas

following all of that.

Let's go to Charlie Gasparino.

I was mentioning a little bit earlier on we had a big pickup at the corner

of Wall and Broad, particularly in the Dow.

But don't let that sort of gloss over how the markets and the guys who run

them are trying to gauge this election and how to play it. Charlie's been

talking to a lot of them who have some interesting insights.

Charlie, what can you tell us?

CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT:  Coming off of what Bryan

just said is fascinating, because there are several election scenarios

floating around Wall Street. Obviously, one of them is that Biden could win

easily. That's one. I'm not endorsing it. I'm just saying it's out there.

The other one, -- and I'm hearing this a lot, particularly as we get really

close to, as we get closer to tomorrow -- is the notion that, Neil, that it

all comes down to Pennsylvania, that Michigan, Wisconsin, that probably

goes to Biden, Trump picks up everything he picked up last time, Florida,

North Carolina, maybe adds Nevada, he keeps Arizona, but it all comes down

to Pennsylvania.

And if that's the case, well, then it's going to be a couple days. It could

be a couple days. And that's where the market volatility gets really

interesting. And that's where stocks could trade off dramatically.

And I think that's a -- that's a real issue here. And Wall Street is

definitely game-planning that. If you talk to anybody at a major trading

desk, be it a hedge fund or a major bank, that's what their traders are

going to be looking for, whether this is elongated, whether Pennsylvania

comes in late, because Pennsylvania is likely -- unlikely to know.

And if it's hinging on them, markets hate uncertainty, and it will trade

off. So that's the election scenario that people are worried about in terms

of volatility.

Obviously, if we all know what's happening, if it's done, if it's an early

night, well, then you don't have to worry about it too much the next day.

Markets today are up. I just -- it's hard to say like why the markets are

up today. I mean, it could have been some bounce-back from last week. We

had a horrible week last week. But that's a scenario, this whole thing

about Pennsylvania, I keep hearing a lot, and because polls are tightening.

There's no doubt about that. And it could come down to that one state. And,

if it does, wow, it's going to be an interesting couple days -- Neil, back

to you.

CAVUTO:  All right, and especially if it goes more than a couple of days.

Charlie Gasparino, thank you very much.

GASPARINO:  Yes.

CAVUTO:  Enter Leland Vittert on all of this. He's in Washington right now.

And I told you a little bit about how they're right now trying to adjust to

the possibility that this sort of drags on a while. I told you about stores

and banks and like that are sort of boarding up, and the possibility

tomorrow that we could see some disturbance.

Leland now with more on that -- Leland.

LELAND VITTERT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT:  Well, it's not only stores and

banks, Neil, but also the United States Secret Service, which is pushing

the perimeter of the White House out a couple of blocks from where

pedestrians are normally allowed, and building 15-foot no-scale fencing to

give them a larger defensive perimeter around the White House.

And there's also fencing outside of that perimeter around a number of

businesses. Restaurants, banks, office buildings have all boarded up here

in D.C.

Police across the country have canceled their days off and vacation for

officers, in expectation of possible unrest. In Beverly Hills, they're

talking about shutting down Rodeo Drive to not only vehicular traffic, but

also to any pedestrians, trying to prevent that repeat of June looting that

they saw.

And it's very clear that the cost of boarding up and lost business for a

couple of days pales in comparison to the cost of a full-blown riot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  It's cheaper to put up a piece of plywood than it is to

lose a window that can cost thousands and thousands of dollars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VITTERT:  And I talked to the head of one of the major security firms here

in D.C. that tracks social media among these protest groups, and says that,

if President Trump wins reelection, they believe it is a very real

possibility that things could get -- quote -- "extremely ugly" -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, Leland Vittert, thank you very much, my friend.

To Leon Panetta, the former defense secretary, former CIA director, former

Bill Clinton chief of staff, who was with me just a couple of weeks ago

talking about how we all have to stay calm, no matter our politics,

Election Day, especially if it doesn't look like we could get an answer

right away on Election Day.

He rejoins us right now.

Leon, at the time, your biggest concern was that protesters will come out,

people are passionate on both sides, could get extreme. So, what do you see

happening now, especially when people are boarding up windows, locking off

their stores, just in case?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE:  Well, obviously, the

concerns are out there.

But, at the same time, Neil, I really do think that all of these state

officials across our country are going to do their job and count the votes.

And that's the most basic thing we need to know is, do we have a fair and

free election, and have we counted all of the votes?

So, I think the most important thing to urge all Americans is patience.

Please be patient. Allow these state officials to count all the votes and

allow all the votes to be counted. That's the most important thing we all

could do at this point.

CAVUTO:  What if it's a landslide for one or the other candidate? And then

you could feel, all right, now this is beyond just a close one here.

Joe Biden, if it's him, Donald Trump, if it's him, can go ahead and

declare, especially if the other guy concedes. But how likely is that? In

other words, does a landslide for either one change the dynamic here and

take the pressure off?

PANETTA:  Well, I don't think there's any question, if you have a -- if you

have a big landslide for either candidate, that it would take a lot of the

pressure off, because it would be very clear who the next president of the

United States is going to be.

I don't -- I don't know that that's going to be the case. I think we could

have a situation where some of the early states indicate a trend, but it

still depends on a final vote count in all of those key states that

represent the electoral -- the key electoral votes.

So, I suspect that, under any circumstances, we're looking at a number of

days for these final ballots to be counted in order to really know who the

ultimate winner is.

CAVUTO:  I have a number of friends abroad, as I'm sure you do, Leon, who

are always intrigued. Every four years, I must get these calls:  What the

hell is the Electoral College?

And they never understand it. And, also, now I just get the idea that, if

things are compounded, we don't know the results, it's another 2000, where

it went on and on and on, the issue how we look to the rest of the world,

what is -- what was your fear about that?

PANETTA:  Well, I have always felt that our democracy and the ability of

the American people to be able to cast their votes for our elected

leadership is one of the most basic ingredients of our democracy.

And I think that, as long as all of us here in this country allow that

process to go forward, I think we're going to have a huge vote. Between the

mail-in ballots and the votes tomorrow, I think we're going to have a big

vote. I think those votes are going to be counted. I have tremendous

confidence in the states and their election systems to do an accurate

count.

And I think, ultimately, we will come to a winner. And that's going to be

the most important message we send the world, is that the American people

have exercised their right to vote, and that we're patient in allowing the

final votes to be counted. Hopefully, that's the message that goes out.

CAVUTO:  President Trump has gotten a lot of criticism on this Axios

report, by the way, that the White House sort of dismissed, that he would

declare victory if things are looking good for him tomorrow night. They

have never said that he said that or that he would endorse that.

But there really wasn't much of a hullabaloo about Hillary Clinton advising

Joe Biden some weeks back not to concede anything, no matter how it looks.

So, isn't there a call on both sides then to act like adults?

PANETTA:  I absolutely think that is critical.

I think both President Trump and Vice President Biden have to exercise

patience as well and allow these -- allow these votes to be counted. And we

will know within a few days, I think, based on these counts, what direction

this election is going in.

And when those final votes...

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  But ahead of all of that, Leon -- but ahead of all of that, Leon -

- and I know you're Democrat, and I know you served with Bill Clinton. I'm

not trying to trap you here.

I'm just trying to say, do you think that was wise advice on the part of

Hillary Clinton, do not concede, don't even think about conceding?

PANETTA:  Yes. No, look, I don't think that's good advice.

And I also don't think that the president should announce that he's a

winner without really knowing if he's a winner. So, it goes for both sides

here.

Let's just wait and get a final count before we have presidents or the

candidates declare their victory.

CAVUTO:  If it were a Biden administration, your name comes up for a

variety of positions. Are you interested in that? I don't want to get ahead

of ourselves.

But I think you're tired because you have done a number of media

interviews, so you might say something stupid. So, what about that?

PANETTA:  Neil, I think my wife would say, only if they moved Washington to

the Monterey Peninsula would I consider any...

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  I think you got your priorities right. That's a beautiful neck of

the woods.

Leon, thank you very, very much.

PANETTA:  Thank you.

CAVUTO:  You're right. We do have to be calm. We do have to look at this

and just say, you know, as a country, we have been through a whole lot

worse.

A lot of people talk about how consequential this election is. I'm not

trying to counter our marketing people. This is the most consequential of

all time. I do quibble with that sometimes when I look at 1860, Abraham

Lincoln coming in. They had to hide that guy because there were attempts on

his life.

The nation was fracturing and falling apart. We got through that. Fast-

forward to 1932. It seemed like the country was falling apart. And all of a

sudden, this Depression looked like it would change America as we knew it.

I think we got through that.

Fast-forward to today. I think we get through this.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, you know by now there is an election tomorrow. I think

you know. And, in fact, gosh, close to 100 million of you have already

voted.

But there is another battle at stake. And that is for control of the United

States Senate. And therein lies the rub, and a close rub, depending on how

a number of key races go.

Jackie DeAngelis has been following that from the FOX Business Network

touch screen -- Jackie.

JACKIE DEANGELIS, FOX BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT:  Good afternoon to you, Neil.

Well, yes, you have to watch who wins the White House tomorrow night. But

these Senate races are really important too, that balance of power that you

mentioned, 53 seats Republican right now, 47 seats for the Democrats.

A lot of different things could happen. For example, Colorado, Arizona,

they're a little bit favored by the Democrats right now. The Republicans,

they could flip a state like Alabama. But you have got Maine, you have got

Iowa, you have got North Carolina.

These are very, very competitive races. And, in fact, let's start in North

Carolina, because I know that that's one of your favorite ones. You have

got Republican Thom Tillis. He is the incumbent. You have got Cal

Cunningham. They have both had their issues, right? Thom Tillis had COVID-

19. He was sidelined. And Cunningham had that extramarital affair.

But they have both been working hard on the campaign trail. Actually, it's

the costliest U.S. Senate race in history, $250 million. One of the recent

polls that we're watching shows that Cunningham is in the lead by three

points, at least for right now.

We're also watching South Carolina, because incumbent Lindsey Graham, some

folks are saying that he is not necessarily a slam dunk to win here. He's

shown some malleability. And Harrison is attacking him, as a matter of

fact, for being an attack dog for President Trump.

One of the -- a little bit older poll that we're watching right now shows

them neck and neck. The numbers are really wide across the board. But this

one could be quite contentious as well.

Finally, I have got my eye on Arizona. You have got the incumbent, Martha

McSally, and you have got the Democratic nominee here, Mike -- Mark Kelly -

- pardon me. They both have really interesting backgrounds. He is a former

astronaut. She's a former Air Force combat pilot.

And you can look at this poll here from NBC News and Marist. And, as a

matter of fact, Mr. Kelly has the lead by six points here. Remember, this

one is John McCain's seat. That's what they're vying for -- Neil, back to

you.

CAVUTO:  All right, Jackie, thank you very much.

I look forward to working with you tomorrow.

DEANGELIS:  Me too.

CAVUTO:  It's going to be a long night, Jackie. We just got to get ready.

Get ready.

All right, Senator Rand Paul joins us right now, the Kentucky senator, on

what he makes of that possibility of a Senate flip.

What do you think, Senator?

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY):  You know, I think there's a real good chance that

Kentucky goes for Trump. I think it's a real good chance that McConnell

wins Kentucky.

Some of the others are up in the air. I think North Carolina and Iowa

definitely go the way the president goes. If President Trump wins North

Carolina, I think Tillis wins also. Same way with Iowa. And I think it's

now looking like he's ahead.

But I think it's really impossible to make predictions since the polling

has been so bad. I know of no one who's ever taken a poll. I don't answer

my phone to anybody who I don't know who's calling. Most of my friends

would tell you the same.

I don't know how you do polling in this day and age. Who takes a call from

a random phone number?

CAVUTO:  Yes, that would be cool if they just stumbled upon you, though.

And it's like, hey, Senator.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  But let me ask you, though, are you surprised that -- and, again,

you're quite right, with some of these battleground polls in particular all

over the map.

The president's people have been arguing, Senator, that they're all within

the margin of error, most of them, and that means, if it's within two,

three, even four points, that's a Trump state, because, even to this day,

four years later, the polls and the pollsters have a tough time really

discerning and accounting for the quiet Trump voter.

Do you agree with that?

PAUL:  You know, they talk about the shy voter. And there's probably some

of that. And I think it may be overstating.

But I think what there really is, is, there's the working voter. If you're

working, you don't have time to be taking polls. So, I think the polls tend

to emphasize non-workers and people who are willing to sit and chitchat on

the phone.

I think busy people, working people, may skew more towards the Republican

side, and may not have time to do this polling. So, I think it's difficult.

And they were so wrong in 2016 that I question the polls.

I will tell you, I was with the president in Arizona. We had 20,000 people

at an airport. Senator Lee and I did several surrogate rallies for him

also. There's incredible enthusiasm. It's just hard to believe that that's

all discounted, and that the polls are right and he's being swamped in

Arizona, when you see that degree of enthusiasm.

So, I don't know. It's just hard to believe that -- I mean, even former

President Obama had like 25 people in a car listening to him, you know?

So, I just don't know how these polls can be correct. We will see how it

turns out when we start counting the election. And I hope that the election

count will be accurate, and hope we don't have sort of -- remember the LBJ

routine.

LBJ in 1948 was so mad, he turned in his illegal votes at midnight and

said, oh, we're going to win, and he's having his scotch. And then he loses

by a couple hundred votes. And he comes back in 1952. And he says, never

again. We're never turning our boxes of votes in until everybody else has

turned in their illegal votes. We're going to be the last one to turn in

their illegal votes.

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL:  But I hope it's not that way anymore.

But we have had illegality in our election.

CAVUTO:  Yes, I don't know whether that was just political lore.

But I do know Democrats' counter to what you were saying about the small

rallies, that's by design, that they're trying to play it safe in the

pandemic.

And they actually think, Senator, that the president's crowded rallies,

two-thirds of Americans polled on the subject don't think it's safe.

Now, it might be perfectly safe. You're the doctor.

But I'm just wondering that it might not affect at all the Biden vote. In

fact, whatever strategy he is using, again, if you buy these polls -- and

you're quite right to question them -- many do -- it could be working

perfectly for them.

PAUL:  Yes, I think the one thing that's unknown is, are enough people fed

up with the lockdowns?

There's a lot of evidence now that the lockdowns don't work. Sweden largely

didn't lock down. They don't wear masks. They pretty much...

CAVUTO:  Well, you might tell that to Boris Johnson, Senator. As you know,

England's going to reimpose a nationwide one. And Boris Johnson is about as

joined as the hip...

PAUL:  It's a huge mistake.

CAVUTO:  ... politically as -- as Donald Trump.

What did you think of that?

PAUL:  Yes, a huge mistake.

And here's what the media is missing on the Johns Hopkins data. Spain has

twice as many cases, but half as many deaths. That comes out to about a 75

percent reduction in deaths. It's been the same throughout any of the

countries.

In the U.S., when we had the spike in the summer, we're now well past the

month of the spike in August, and the lag time for death being accounted

for still shows twice as many infections, half as many deaths.

So, the president saying 75, 80 percent reduction in mortality is

absolutely true. So, people obsessing over numbers really are missing the

boat here. What's happening is, younger people, by and large, are getting

infected, by and large, not dying, largely not being hospitalized.

And we are gaining on immunity. Nobody wants to go that way. It's not by

choice. We'd rather have a vaccine. But, until we have a vaccine, really,

we should not be lamenting and gnashing our teeth that people get infected,

and the death rate is plummeting.

CAVUTO:  But more cases are appearing, and more positive cases, at that,

than we were seeing. And in at least 30 states, Senator, they're seeing an

uptick in hospitalizations.

So, I'm just...

(CROSSTALK)

PAUL:  Yes, but that -- what that shows is -- but that also shows that the

masks and the lockdown and the mitigation aren't working.

So, we have twice as many infections, and we're doing twice as much.

Everybody's being shamed into wearing a mask. Everybody's being told,

you're infecting people and you're going to kill your grandmother and all

this jazz.

But guess what? The infections are going through the roof. The mask

mandates in Europe, when they instituted the mask mandates, the infections

went through the roof.

Now, that didn't cause it. It just shows that these mitigating strategies

really aren't working. The lockdowns aren't working. And I think The Wall

Street Journal had it the best when it said, this virus is insidious. It's

doing what it wants to do, largely or irregardless of man's behavior.

In the end, until we get a vaccine, it's not any politician's fault,

Trump's fault or Cuomo's fault or anybody. The virus is insidious, and it's

going to do what it's going to do.

But we shouldn't cripple or kill the economy, because the lockdown has not

lessened the rate of infection.

CAVUTO:  All right, Dr. -- Dr. -- Senator Rand Paul, very good seeing you

again. Be safe and healthy yourself.

You had a scare with this as well.

All right, we have a lot more coming up on this, including the president no

doubt eager to talk about these pandemic statistics he said are way

overblown, that we are making progress, and, to the senator's point just

now, that it's a media fixation that will disappear after Election Day.

As he travels to Kenosha, Wisconsin, to pound just that, we will look at

those remarks and the significance of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, Kenosha, Wisconsin, right now, the president of the

United States holding yet another rally.

This guy's perseverance and strength, I don't know. I don't think I could

keep up a travel schedule like that.

Jeff Flock in the middle of all of that -- Jeff, to you.

JEFF FLOCK, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK CORRESPONDENT:  This could be, Neil, the

next-to-last rally of the 2020 campaign.

And I will tell you, if enthusiasm is any indication, maybe you see -- look

at these folks.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

FLOCK:  I don't think if you're going to vote for Trump or not, but there's

more fun in the Trump rally than anybody else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Oh, I'm voting for Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We voted for Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  We voted already. Trump 2020.

FLOCK:  You did vote?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes, I did.

FLOCK:  Gotcha.

Look at all the -- look at -- look at all the cars out there.

This is a place, Neil, where they're parking, and then getting on buses

headed over to Kenosha Airport. The president will be here. I think it's

the next-to-last rally, one more in Grand Rapids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes.

FLOCK:  And I don't know. What brings you out in the midst of all of this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  The emotion behind it, the history behind it.

I mean, this is a lifetime event. We brought our kids with us. We want them

to see your vote matters.

FLOCK:  You have got a "Fake News" cap on there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Yes.

FLOCK:  Is that me? Is that...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  That's not you, no way, not you.

No, it's those that don't report the news.

FLOCK:  Yes. Well, we all try. We try to give all sides here.

But, at the moment, it's the Trump side. And, as perhaps you see, well, I

think the Space Force, Neil, is coming in down there. If you think there

are no masks at a Trump rally, well, you haven't seen these folks. They're

well-prepared against COVID-19.

There you go, the latest from Kenosha, Wisconsin. We will be here -- Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right, my friend.

Yes, I liked the one guy's outfit. That will come in handy in New York for

our coverage on FBN.

Thank you, Jeff Flock, on all of that.

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  People will find all ways, won't they?

All right, Joe Biden, of course, realizing:  I have got the unions behind

me. How can I lose?

Now, he doesn't have all unions behind him, but he has the big one, the

AFL-CIO.

That one's president, Richard Trumka, is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:  All right, Joe Biden likes to talk about his army of union workers

and volunteers who are getting out the vote on his behalf. That will be

crucial in states like Pennsylvania.

Richard Trumka, the AFL-CIO president, joining me right now.

Richard, good to have you back.

RICHARD TRUMKA, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO:  Thanks for having me.

CAVUTO:  Of course, your union has endorsed Joe Biden for president. And he

is relying on a lot of your men and women to get out the vote. How has that

been going?

TRUMKA:  Been going exceptional.

Working people are making our voices heard in this election. And we're

voting for a new direction and a better tomorrow. It's been easier to get

volunteers. We have had more people out, more enthusiasm than we had in the

last couple of elections.

So, I think it's going quite well.

CAVUTO:  You know, Republicans, the president likes to point out that your

union guys have done very well by him and, prior to the pandemic, were

looking at the lowest unemployment levels we had ever seen in this country,

and, in fact, they have been among the beneficiaries and gotten a good

chunk of the jobs, half of which have come back since the pandemic.

What do you say to that?

TRUMKA:  Well, first of all, we haven't done very well under him.

We tried working with him, but, with very few exceptions, Neil, he refused

to work with us. The jobs he promised us were coming back never came back.

We have got fewer mining jobs, fewer manufacturing jobs, and fewer

construction jobs, no infrastructure bill. He took overtime away from a

couple of million people. Most importantly, his appointments have done

nothing but attack the process of collective bargaining and make workers

weaker.

The problem with wages in this country, our corporations are too strong and

workers are too weak. And his entire administration has done nothing but

weaken the voice of workers. You can't say you support workers and we're

doing better when our wages went down.

Just last quarter, Neil, $637 billion reduction in disposable income.

That's not doing quite well for us.

CAVUTO:  But real wages -- if memory serves me right, Richard, real wages

have been going down under Barack Obama. They went down under George Bush.

They went down under Bill Clinton.

I mean, that's been going on a long, long time. And for unions in general,

it's been problematic, hasn't it?

TRUMKA:  Exactly.

And here's the reason. That's what I said. Corporations are too strong and

workers are too weak. And what's been his solution? To make corporations

stronger, and reward them for taking jobs off seas.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:  What about that -- what about the trade deal with Canada and

Mexico? I think many of your members liked the fact that there were more

job protections for them. Many of them were saying it was better than the

old NAFTA.

Joe Biden, in fact, has said. What do you think?

TRUMKA:  Wait a second. Wait a second. I was talking about the tax bill,

Neil. He helped accelerate and reward people for taking jobs offshore.

Now, let's talk about NAFTA. I give the president credit for taking it off

-- on. But the bill that he brought back, the one that he said was his

bill, was terrible. It was unenforceable, and it was NAFTA-lite.

We forced him, the working people of this country, along with Nancy Pelosi,

actually forced him to renegotiate that bill. It's much better now, but the

one he brought back, unfortunately, was weak and unenforceable, wasn't very

good at all, would have cost us more jobs, Neil.

CAVUTO:  All right.

All right, Richard, I will put you down as a maybe then on the president on

this. I'm not...

(LAUGHTER)

CAVUTO:  I can't quite predict who you're going for.

The AFL-CIO president, Richard Trumka, good seeing you. Good health. Please

be well. Stay well.

TRUMKA:  Thanks.

CAVUTO:  As Richard was wrapping up there, this is Joe Biden, and that's

Lady Gaga at a quick campaign event.

Is there sound coming out of this, guys? Can we dip into this?

BIDEN:  And, by the way (OFF-MIKE) You guys are in, but you're -- what is

it, rotation?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Mostly online.

BIDEN:  Mostly online?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Online. (OFF-MIKE)

BIDEN:  I have got my granddaughter. Where's (OFF-MIKE)

One of (OFF-MIKE) that's -- she's a junior in high school, a sophomore in

high school. That's one of (OFF-MIKE). He's a sophomore in high school.

This one in the middle here, she's a sophomore at the University of

Pennsylvania. And this just graduated from law school.

And so I'll tell you what. Anyway, great to you see all. Great to you see

all.

CAVUTO:  All right, Joe Biden with Lady Gaga.

Much is made of the fact that he can't draw a crowd, he says deliberately,

because he wants to keep everyone safe. So, Donald Trump can have his tens

of thousands at rallies. He has Lady Gaga.

So, if you like Lady Gaga, there is that, music to this candidate's ears.

Here comes "THE FIVE."

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