Former county clerk quits job after same-sex marriage ruling
Linda Barnette explains her decision on 'Hannity'
This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," July 1, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
SEAN HANNITY, HOST: Welcome to "Hannity." A Ten Commandments statue on the grounds of the Oklahoma state capitol must now be taken down. In a 7-2 decision on Tuesday, the Oklahoma Supreme Court ruled that the 10 Commandments on the monument are, quote, "obviously religious in nature and an integral part of the Jewish and Christian faiths."
Now, many Oklahoma legislators have expressed regret at the ruling, and some are even calling for the Oklahoma Supreme Court justices to be impeached.
Joining me now is the Oklahoma attorney general, who vehemently disagrees with the court's decision, Scott Pruitt, as well as state representative Mike Ritze, whose family funded the development of the monument in question. Welcome, both of you.
Mr. Attorney General, let me begin with you. What recourse do you have? I know you've called on them to reexamine the issue, but I would doubt, based on that ruling, that they're coming down on your side.
SCOTT PRUITT, R-OKLAHOMA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, it happens at times, Sean. We've actually filed something called a petition for rehearing. And in encouraging news today, actually, the court has requested briefs from the other sides. That shows that they're actually considering this, and they should because it was a wrong decision.
Now, when you look at the precedent of the court itself, they have cases that stand for the proposition that this monument is constitutional. We had examples of this nationally. This monument was modeled after something in Texas. The federal courts have said that it's constitutional.
And so what the state supreme court did in Oklahoma yesterday is say that the 1st Amendment protections provided by the U.S. Constitution are insufficient and that the state of Oklahoma should take a different approach. That's wrong, and that's the reason they should rehear it.
HANNITY: Yes, and the suit was brought by the ACLU of Oklahoma on behalf of the plaintiffs in this case, sir?
PRUITT: That's correct.
HANNITY: OK. Now, Mike, you have a -- you're a representative. And your family actually donated this. And apparently, you had to reinvest in this because I guess there was some accident and it was destroyed in some way?
STATE REP. MIKE RITZE, R-OKLA.: Yes, a Satanist ran over it early October and destroyed the monument. But we replaced that within six weeks.
HANNITY: Yes. And so what's your take on it? What are your constituents saying?
RITZE: Well, historically, Sean, my wife and I are lovers of history. And we -- about 30 years ago, we saw a trend that was happening kind of in our educational system in the government schools, and we decided to home school our children and emphasize to them what the real basics were.
But the trend was not only were they not teaching the basics, they were erasing our history, our heritage. And I love history. I have two -- interestingly enough, in this month and year of our heritage, in our 4th of July week, we're seeing two great- grandfathers who were in the revolution. And fast-forward, we saw intertwined in that history the decalogues, the 10 Commandments that were being taken out of it.
So we wanted to erect a monument. We went through the legislative process, passed overwhelmingly, a super-majority in the Oklahoma legislature and signed by a Democrat governor. And we felt like that with the attorney general's assistance and the Liberty Legal Institute, if it needed to be defended...
HANNITY: All right...
RITZE: ... that it wouldn't cost the taxpayers a penny.
HANNITY: Mr. Attorney General, as I look at what the Oklahoma constitution says and the opinion says, "No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated or used directly or indirectly for the use, benefit or support of any sect, church, denomination, system of religion," et cetera, et cetera, "for use, benefit, support of any priest, preacher or minister" -- what is your argument going to be on your petition for a rehearing?
PRUITT: Well, look, I mean, what they've disregarded entirely is the connection of the 10 Commandments to our codes of law. I mean, in the Supreme Court itself, in the southern (ph) frieze (ph) of the U.S. Supreme Court, you have the law givers, Moses being one with the 10 Commandments. Clearly, there is a purpose here that's different than establishing a particular religion.
But this is part of a larger debate, Sean. You know, what we're facing here in Oklahoma is not something that's lost (ph) across the country right now. There is a debate going on about what did the 1st Amendment truly protect? What does it mean to have a right of free exercise?
And you see this movement nationally of folks trying to eradicate all forms of religion in the marketplace, and that's not what our 1st Amendment's about. That's not what this provision in the Oklahoma constitution was intended to address. We're going to emphasize that with the court, and hopefully, they'll take a different approach.
HANNITY: All right, Attorney General Pruitt, thank you. Representative Ritze, thank you for being with us.
Now, while the Oklahoma supreme court is spurring controversy all across the state, a recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling surrounding the legalization of gay marriage is leading to serious ramifications all across the country, including in Mississippi, where a local county clerk has stepped down from her job because issuing a gay marriage license is against her religion.
Joining us now is that former county circuit clerk. Linda Barnette (sic) is with us. How are you, Linda?
LINDA BARNETTE, FORMER MISSISSIPPI COUNTY CLERK: I'm fine, Sean. Thank you.
HANNITY: All right, so this goes against your deeply held religious views and conviction.
BARNETTE: That's right.
HANNITY: All right. So tell us the process by which you realized that you felt you wanted to resign here.
BARNETTE: Well, I was waiting for the decision from the U.S. Supreme Court. And when that came down, I knew I could no longer fulfill my duties as circuit clerk and issue marriage to same-sex couples.
HANNITY: Yes, and you were willing to accept the consequence. As I understand it, though, Mississippi is considering getting out of the marriage license business altogether now. Would you be able to get your job back if they did?
BARNETTE: Well, no. I've already resigned my position, and they've appointed one of my deputies that's been with me for 22 years. And so I probably would not.
HANNITY: Yes. Why is this so important to you inasmuch as -- do you feel that you are aiding and abetting something that goes against your conscience?
BARNETTE: Yes, it is. I strongly believe in the bible and that God is the final authority. And just because man chooses to live this way or say we have to do this and follow the laws, make the laws -- and it just goes against everything I believe, my core values, everything I believe in.
HANNITY: All right...
BARNETTE: I think it teaches that, you know, it's a man and woman, and that constitutes marriage.
HANNITY: All right, Linda. Thank you for sharing your story.
Here now with more reaction, the co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation -- Annie Laurie Gaylor is with us, Catholic League president Bill Donohue, FOX News contributor Father Jonathan Morris, and from Fox News Radio, it's Todd Starnes.
Annie, you see what the ramifications to all of this. Can you name a society before that has established a new definition of marriage? And do you not see this come in conflict between religious institutions and those that are going to claim, Oh, these religious institutions must now change their value system, or else they're not going to be allowed to operate, as Clarence Thomas warned in his dissent?
ANNIE LAURIE GAYLOR, FREEDOM FROM RELIGION FOUNDATION: What the Supreme Court has done is say that individuals have a right to marry, regardless of their sexual orientation.
HANNITY: But do churches have the right...
GAYLOR: Religion cannot...
HANNITY: Should churches...
GAYLOR: ... dictate to government.
HANNITY: You're not answering my question! I know what the court decision said. I read it. But should churches now be forced to marry, or do you believe in the 1st Amendment, the free exercise thereof?
GAYLOR: Churches have never been compelled to marry anybody. And nobody is going to force churches to have...
HANNITY: Justice Thomas in his dissent warns of this coming battle. I'm asking where you stand. Would you support the idea that churches must -- must go about supporting gay marriage?
GAYLOR: Churches do not have to support gay marriage. But the government must allow it. And...
HANNITY: OK, but if somebody wants to marry...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: But if somebody wants to marry in a church, and the church says, No, that goes against our value system, you accept the church's right to their 1st Amendment values, is that true?
GAYLOR: Yes.
FATHER JONATHAN MORRIS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Even if (INAUDIBLE)
HANNITY: All right, what are you saying, Father?
MORRIS: Well, you -- how about Annie -- is it Laurie? Annie Laurie Gaylor.
GAYLOR: Annie Laurie.
MORRIS: OK. What if the church is tax-exempt? Would you also suggest that they should keep their tax-exempt status and still be able to say, You know what? Actually, we're not going to do that because it goes against our values.
GAYLOR: I think that if the church is getting money from the government, which many of them are...
MORRIS: OK, so in other words, you don't.
GAYLOR: ... they should not be permitted to discriminate in employment.
MORRIS: Yes, there we go. OK. Yes. That's where it's going! Sean, that's where it's going!
GAYLOR: Well, churches should not be getting money...
MORRIS: That's exactly...
GAYLOR: ... government money.
MORRIS: That's exactly where it's going!
HANNITY: That was my point. Todd?
TODD STARNES, FOX NEWS RADIO: Yes, Sean, look, I mean, what's happening to this dear lady, who I interviewed in my FOXnews.com column, is happening all across the country. We're -- you know, we've been talking about the churches, but what about the Christians when they leave the walls of the church and they want to practice their faith in the public marketplace?
And it seems as though the humanists have declared some sort of a secular fatwa and they want to get rid of all the religious icons. They want to purge Christian thought and Christian speech and Christian beliefs from the public marketplace. And that is just simply -- not only is it wrong, it's unconstitutional!
HANNITY: Let me bring in Bill Donohue here. I saw you put out earlier today, Bill, in your newsletter that there's a case -- a Milwaukee Art Museum is hosting an offensive exhibit. What, 17,000 colored condoms are used to portray Pope Benedict?
BILL DONOHUE, CATHOLIC LEAGUE PRESIDENT: Right. And they take public money. You see, this is the way the game is being played. I don't believe this Annie one bit, by the way. I've followed her organization for years. They do want to take away the tax-exempt status. I like people when they're honest. Don't play games with me, Miss.
Now, this -- what's going on here, they are taking public moneys, the Milwaukee Art Museum, and they're saying it's OK to bash Catholics! Catholics helped fund that. I can't put a nativity set on public grounds! I can't have a 10 Commandments, which is the edifice of the -- of the...
(CROSSTALK)
DONOHUE: ... of Western civilization! They're playing a game here! They're lying when it comes to the separation of church and state.
HANNITY: But you also had elephant dung...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Hang on a second!
GAYLOR: We do not have blasphemy laws in the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Annie, hang on. We also had the Brooklyn Museum of Art, elephant dung on a picture of the Virgin Mary, again, publicly funded.
DONOHUE: Exactly. And I led the demonstration in the street against that. And I'm not saying I want censorship. What I want is an honest debate. These people want to impose their militant secular values down our throats! And we're in for a fight! And unless religious leaders...
HANNITY: So Clarence Thomas is right. You agree.
DONOHUE: Of course Clarence Thomas was right!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was absolutely right. And I think here's the ugly fact people don't want to talk about. They actually believe that that sweet grandmother you just had on there, Linda Barnette, is a bigot because she holds to biblical values. That's what they believe. They believe people like Billy Graham and Franklin Graham are bigots. That's what we're dealing with here, Sean. This is a very, very dangerous...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, ma'am. We're having a conversation here. Hold on just a second. Again, Sean, you've got these organizations like the Freedom From Religion Foundation that come in and bully these small towns, these small communities. It is just not right.
HANNITY: Father?
MORRIS: You know, I would love to hear what Annie thinks about this. In Oklahoma, that that statue of the 10 Commandments -- it was run down by Satanists, OK? Now, I would never want a statue, for example, of who knows, of Pope Benedict, right, up in front of a state building. But the 10 Commandments have to do with history! And they have to do with the history of the foundation of our Western civilization!
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: The evolution of our Judeo-Christian value system is rooted in the 10 Commandments. It's just a fact.
MORRIS: But the problem with...
(CROSSTALK)
MORRIS: Annie, let's be honest here. What the problem you have...
(CROSSTALK)
MORRIS: Let me just let you talk -- just answer my question. The problem here with this part of history that you don't want to be seen is that it has a religious element to it. Is that true?
GAYLOR: There is no 10 Commandments in our secular and godless Constitution. The 10 Commandments are not...
HANNITY: All right...
GAYLOR: ... the underpinning of our civil government. They are religious in nature. And it is totally appropriate that they...
HANNITY: Hey, Annie...
GAYLOR: ... the Oklahoma Supreme Court...
HANNITY: All right, Annie --
GAYLOR: ... has ruled that they do not belong at the seat of our...
HANNITY: Annie...
GAYLOR: ... state government in Oklahoma.
HANNITY: Our founding document, our declaration says we're endowed by our creator. Does it not?
GAYLOR: Yes, and that is not the foundation of our law. That is the declaration of our independence...
HANNITY: That is our founding document!
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: That is it. That's our declaration. That's our founding document.
GAYLOR: ... Thomas Jefferson, who was anti-biblical.
HANNITY: And when you look at the history of the 1st Amendment, you will see that what -- government didn't say, you know, separation from religion when they talked about separation...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: Last word. Real quick.
MORRIS: Annie doesn't represent -- the good news is that Annie doesn't represent most atheists in our country, who are so much more rational and compassionate and tolerant.
HANNITY: All right...
MORRIS: And she...
(CROSSTALK)
GAYLOR: Actually, I do, because...
MORRIS: ... but that's not tolerance and compassion.
HANNITY: All right, I got to end it there.
GAYLOR: Secular support...
HANNITY: Thank you for being with us.
GAYLOR: ... separation of...
HANNITY: Coming up -- Donald Trump, Macy's -- they go their separate ways over his comments that he made about illegal immigration. You're going to hear from Mr. Trump coming up next. Plus, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani is here tonight to respond to that controversy.
Later -- a new report about Baltimore police commanders is now they're admitting that a stand down order was, in fact, given at the height of the rioting. We'll check in with Geraldo Rivera, who was in the thick of that. He'll join us, and more straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." Donald Trump and Macy's went their separate ways earlier today over comments that he made about illegal immigrants. Now, the retail giant issued a statement which reads, in part, "In light of statements made by Donald Trump which are inconsistent with Macy's values, we have decided to discontinue our business relationship with Mr. Trump."
Donald Trump -- he released a statement of his own, and he wrote on Twitter, quote, "For all those who want to make America great again, boycott Macy's. They are weak on border security and stop illegal immigration."
Earlier this evening, the Donald spoke with Greta Van Susteren.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm very, very strong on border control and border security. And they probably aren't. I'm also strong on making great trade deals with other countries, and I guess Macy's probably isn't.
And they were folding like a bunch of bandits. And frankly, I said, Let's just sort of end it. I said that to them last night. So I think it's sort of a mutual thing, but maybe I sort of gave them the out.
There's pressure being put on them by certain groups that -- you know, these groups that go around. I guess they -- I don't know, maybe they make a living doing this stuff. But you know, I'm OK with it. I have nothing against Macy's. I don't like the fact that people are trying to be so politically correct that they don't do the right thing, however, Greta.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
HANNITY: Here now with reaction, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani. As we're talking, I feel a little bit like an expert here because I've been all the way from the Rio Grande, all across the border, through Texas and Arizona, horseback, all-terrain vehicles, helicopters, boats. I've seen drug warehouses floor to ceiling. I've been there with arrests of criminals. I've seen tunnels dug from up close and personal. And we're going to show it as we talk.
What do you think first about his statement?
RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Well, first of all, I've been involved in border security since 1981, when I was in charge of the Immigration Service in the Reagan administration. They were one of my agencies that I was in charge of. And I've been on the border many, many times. And...
HANNITY: Yes. And by the way, those are guys that I saw arrested.
GIULIANI: And here's the reality. Donald, who I love -- and I really mean it. I think he's a great man. I think he's a wonderful father. And he's been terrific for America. Just think he got it reversed.
HANNITY: What do you mean?
GIULIANI: Well, here's what I mean. Most of the people coming over the border -- most of them -- are coming over to work. They're working in California. They're working in Texas. They're working in New York. They're working in the restaurants and most of the places around here.
They're coming over illegally. They shouldn't. Now, when you allow that to happen, you create a nice crowd in which drug dealers can come over, rapists can come over, terrorists can come over. So...
HANNITY: And it's happening!
GIULIANI: Right. It is happening and it has happened. And here's where I end up agreeing completely with Donald Trump. We have to seal the border. We got to stop the -- even the good people...
HANNITY: You wish he said it the other way.
GIULIANI: Yes. We got to stop the good people from coming in so the bad people don't come in with them because if good people can come in illegally, bad people can come in illegally.
HANNITY: Including ISIS.
GIULIANI: And now including ISIS. So his end results, which is to seal the border and then let's let the good people come in legitimately -- get a picture of them, let them go work on the farms, let them go work in the restaurants -- fine. I love that.
HANNITY: But you know what...
GIULIANI: But they've got to come in legally.
HANNITY: Legally. But...
GIULIANI: It can be done.
HANNITY: ... when we have 93 million Americans, Mr. Mayor...
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: That's a tunnel.
GIULIANI: If you...
HANNITY: Dug from -- in a -- in an office building, goes right to Mexico. We went down in the tunnel.
GIULIANI: OK. If you -- if you -- some night, if you got some time this summer, we'll spend 15 minutes. I'll bring you my map that I did in 19 -- sorry, in 2007, when I was running for president -- and I've shown it to three candidates -- as to how to seal the border. I have exactly the way to do it.
HANNITY: I actually was up in New Hampshire when you gave that speech.
GIULIANI: OK. So you do anywhere from 20 to 40, let's call them police precincts, border stations on the border. In there, you put 200 to 300 border patrol agents. Those precincts are no more than 20 miles away from every point on the border. You then utilize camera equipment, you utilize sensor equipment...
HANNITY: Motion detectors.
GIULIANI: ... and the minute you see people approaching the border, within minutes, you can have 200 or 300 border patrol agents there. You stop them. You send them back.
HANNITY: So we can control the border completely.
GIULIANI: It's going to cost money, a lot less money than how we're getting hurt (ph). That'll keep the bad people out. And then here's the second thing we do. We make it easy for the good people to come in. If a guy wants workers from Mexico to work on his farm, he should be allowed to have them come in because, frankly, people in America aren't doing the work.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger put the National Guard on the border of California, within three weeks, all the farmers from the middle of California, which is a Republican Party California...
HANNITY: Sure.
GIULIANI: ... the only Republican Party of California -- came and complained and said, If you don't let them in, we're going to go broke.
Well, those are the people we want to come in legally. But they should come in, they should be identified, they should pay taxes. They should be allowed to go home. When they come back, they should come...
HANNITY: We got to keep track of them.
GIULIANI: So we keep track of them.
HANNITY: I don't think we should give any citizenship to anybody that didn't respect our laws. You agree?
GIULIANI: I agree -- no, not completely. No.
HANNITY: Why? Why should they be rewarded with citizenship?
GIULIANI: It depends on how they disrespected our laws.
HANNITY: They came across illegally. They entered illegally, knowing -- breaking our -- not respecting our sovereignty.
GIULIANI: To get a job so they have a better life for their family. So you put them on the back of the line, make them wait a long time. Let them speak English. Let them pay all their taxes. I worked for President Reagan when he did amnesty.
HANNITY: He said it was one of his biggest mistakes, though.
GIULIANI: Well, it wasn't. And the reality is -- and there are -- some of these people that are extraordinarily good people...
HANNITY: Of course they are.
GIULIANI: ... and they make very good Americans. And in fact, some of them have a better work ethic than a lot of our -- our Americans.
HANNITY: I don't even disagree with that.
GIULIANI: And we have to separate them. So I say, coming over the border illegally is not like murdering somebody. It's not like raping somebody. It's not like robbing somebody. It's a -- almost -- if you were living in that condition, you might want to do it. So I would give you a hard road to becoming a citizen, but I am not one who's against possible citizenship for those people.
HANNITY: All right, Mr. Mayor, appreciate it. Good to see you, as always.
GIULIANI: Thank you.
HANNITY: Coming up, we'll have more on the Donald Trump controversy as Larry Elder and Juan Williams debate.
But first -- Baltimore police officials finally admit what we reported at the time, that they let the rioters destroy the city during those violent protests in April. Geraldo Rivera saw the destruction firsthand. He'll be here with reaction.
All of that and more as we continue tonight on "Hannity."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." A stunning admission from the Baltimore Police Department about officer conduct during the violent riots that took place in April. After denying it for months, The Baltimore Sun is, in fact, reporting that police officials now admit that they told their officers, quote, "to hold the line" and not engage rioters as they looted stores, set buildings and vehicles on fire and attacked the police. All told, these criminals destroyed almost 400 businesses. They injured over 100 cops and caused an estimated $20 million in damage.
We have been reporting this on "Hannity" for months. Now, that "stand down" order was given during the riots. Here now with more on this is the first person who told us about it, is Maryland sheriff Mike Lewis. Also with us, FOX News senior correspondent Geraldo Rivera.
Sheriff Lewis, you were on this program. You made that comment. You had talked to the officers. You were called a liar by people, and people said it wasn't true. Now you've been vindicated. Your reaction?
SHERIFF MIKE LEWIS, WICOMICO COUNTY, MARYLAND: Sean, I want to thank the mayor for finally allowing the Baltimore police to admit there was a stand down order, given that they were told to hold the line. As you well, know, I heard it repeatedly on my police radio, and I also heard it from the hundreds of police officers who came into my secure barrier between BPD headquarters and the trenches. I heard it repeatedly from them, and I heard it when I was out in the field.
So I'm glad to hear this news. We both know, Sean, there's no way you're going to have hundreds of police officers out there if you would be calling them liars, you would be calling them cowards, you'd be calling them derelicts for not doing their duty, and that is not only to protect lives but you protect businesses. And they were clearly told to stand down and hold the line and not engage.
HANNITY: All right, let me go to just this week, Geraldo. And you were there on the ground for us and you had some very combative interviews with people.
Just this week -- get this -- 14 shootings this week. Now, now that we know that the stand down order was given, we have the Baltimore police commissioner, Anthony Batts, saying that there was no stand down order given. Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: There was no one in my command who gave a stand down order. (INAUDIBLE) commander never gave a stand down order. Alyssa Hyatt (ph) was the assistant incident commander. She never gave a stand down order. Deputy commissioner Davis here, who was in a helicopter, never gave a stand down order. And as far as I know, Deputy Commissioner Paul Meer (ph), who was out in the field leading the troops, never gave a stand down order.
So as we go back and research that and try to figure out where that came from, we all have had a conversation that we never gave that direction at any given point in time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: The mayor, everybody lied!
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: As the blood continues to flow on the streets of Murder City, USA, Baltimore, now matching almost murder for murder New York City, a city vastly larger, 8.4 million compared to 600,000, you have now this controversy over the stand down order.
It seems to me, Sean, that what the authorities are doing -- Sheriff Lewis knows better than I. He was there a full day ahead of me. But what the authorities now are doing is saying -- they're hiding behind a rhetorical device. What is it?
They're saying, We never gave down a stand down order. What was literally the order -- and I think Sheriff Lewis can corroborate this. The order was not, quote, unquote, "stand down." The order was "hold the line."
HANNITY: Same thing!
RIVERA: So in hold the line, hold the line, hold the line, you lock shields, and the order was not to advance, not to stop any of the looting.
The effect is the same. If you stand down, the rioters then go and loot and commit their pillaging and their violence and arson, et cetera. If you hold the line, in other words, you're a static line, and everything is happening in front of you, essentially, the same thing happens. The police do not interrupt the violence, the looting and what's going on.
I think that what is -- we -- we -- our job is not to let them hide behind the rhetorical device. They have to admit and are admitting now that they gave the order to hold the line.
HANNITY: All right, what is the latest, Sheriff, that officers are telling you? Because you're in contact with them regularly. Are they still holding back for fear that they may, in fact, get indicted if they do their job?
LEWIS: They certainly are, Sean. And I listened to audiotapes just yesterday of the looting that was taking place on Saturday night, the first night we had the unrest unfolding. I heard audiotapes myself where police officers are being ordered out of the downtown area during the looting. They were ordered to return to BPD headquarters during the actual looting.
And one officer came on the air and said I've got about 150 people going into one store. He said I'm telling you for the third time, return to BPD headquarters, remove yourself from the downtown area where the chaos was erupting, where it was unfolding and the city was being enveloped in civil unrest and pure mayhem.
HANNITY: That's unbelievable. This means -- and that means a civil lawsuit is on the way, and I say the city is going to lose millions, do you agree from a legal standpoint?
LEWIS: I do agree 100 percent.
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: The city will be financially held responsible. But moreover you have a dysfunctional police department right now. And as a result you have this horrible epidemic of murder. I think it's a very, very serious situation. It is anarchy there.
HANNITY: Good to see you both, thank you. When we come back, Donald Trump, he's firing back at his critics hard about comments made about illegal immigrants. Juan Williams, Larry Elder, they'll debate next.
And later, former Obama advisor David Axelrod has a lot of explaining to do after more Hillary e-mails are released. Apparently he lied through his teeth. Ed Henry will a report straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity." And 2016 Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is facing a great deal of backlash just two weeks after announcing his 2016 presidential bid. And it all started after he made these remarks about Mexican immigrants. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems. And they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some I assume are good people. But I speak to border guards, and they tell us what we're getting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Last night as controversy continued to swirl around the comments, Donald Trump fired back at his critics and he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Eighty percent of Central American women and girls are raped coming into the United States crossing the border. So, you know, people say, oh, would you change it? Absolutely I can change it. I love Mexican people. I have a tremendous relationship. I also respect Mexico. But Mexico is doing a tremendous number against the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANNITY: Here now with reaction radio talk show host Larry Elder as well as FOX News political analyst Juan Williams. Juan, I went down to the border about 10 times. Helicopter, all-terrain vehicle, horseback, boats, sat through briefings, crime statistics. I've been -- I was sitting through that briefing with Governor Perry of Texas at the time.
JUAN WILLIAMS, SENIOR EDITOR, THE HILL: I think I saw you in a commando boat down there.
HANNITY: That was -- I've been all the way from the Rio Grande all the way to San Diego coming up a tunnel I went into that was built. And I was in the drug warehouses. There is huge crime associated with this illegal border situation. Tell me one thing that Donald Trump said that's not true?
WILLIAMS: Rapists?
HANNITY: Yes. Criminal members.
WILLIAMS: No, you asked and I answered you.
HANNITY: That's true.
WILLIAMS: The Mexican people, he said not only are you sending drug dealers, you're sending rapists.
HANNITY: Juan, there are people moving drugs. Let me finish. Human traffickers.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Do you think there are Americans who are involved in the drug trade? Answer, yes. Does that characterize us as an American people? That's absurd.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: No. Larry, let's help him out here.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: Donald Trump is saying there is a huge criminal element that is crossing that border. He said some people are fine, but there are a lot of criminals that are not fine. That's how I took it. How did you take it?
LARRY ELDER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: That's how I took it as well. What Donald Trump has done is tapped into a lot of anger that a lot of people have, not just Republicans, over these porous borders. I'm in California, a very liberal state, Juan and Sean. And in 1994, blacks, whites, Asians, and about a third of Hispanics voted for Proposition 187 to deny benefits to illegal aliens.
These borders are porous, and not only that, a lot of Republicans feel they're porous intentionally, that Democrats want to change the electorate to make it more pro-Democratic. And Donald Trump is unafraid of being called a bigot by saying these kinds of things.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, he should be afraid of it, because that's a fact. When you start characterizing an entire nation as sending people who are drug dealers and rapists, this is like Steve King's comment about cantaloupe cabs because they're carrying backpacks filled with drugs. Larry, this is offensive. And it's the kind of thing that is said against black people and Hispanic people in this country.
And again, who is involved with the drug trade? Things go both ways. And don't forget, don't forget, right now across that border there is no mass influx of immigrants. This is being set up in the air by Donald Trump to try to appeal to the very worst instincts in the Republican Party.
ELDER: Juan, there aren't mass numbers of UAC, unaccompanied children coming across the borders even as we speak?
WILLIAMS: No. In fact, that was last summer, if you will recall, Larry. And what happened --
ELDER: That was last summer and they're still here. And that are still here.
WILLIAMS: We have a net negative in terms of influx. And some people say it's not because of the government but because the American economy --
HANNITY: Let me correct this, because they're predicting more than double this year.
WILLIAMS: You asked me about reality. Larry asked me about reality. I give you the facts, and you say some things might change in the future.
HANNITY: I have the video and here's the reality.
WILLIAMS: Go right ahead.
HANNITY: OK, the reality is I've been to a drug warehouse where drugs from Mexico are brought in, floor to ceiling a massive warehouse. We have the video. I've been there when they arrested a gang criminal, known criminal member on the border with agents. There are criminals that are crossing the border. There are people that are human smugglers, drug smugglers. And, yes, some people happen to be murders and rapists. That's a fact. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my God. But you and Larry would not characterize most of the people crossing the border as criminals and rapists.
HANNITY: Did I say that people that Mexican people -- I said there are criminals that cross the border.
WILLIAMS: Yes, criminals.
HANNITY: Rapists, murderers, drug dealers.
HANNITY: You should ask the people --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: What is wrong with the liberal mind they hear something that is not said? I don't get it.
ELDER: Beyond all of this, beyond all of this, what about the economics of all this? I have a friend who was on the U.S. Civil Rights Commission and he said the liberals, the moderates, and the conservatives have all agreed that illegal immigration poses a threat to the jobs of blacks living in the inner city. He wrote a letter to Marsha Fudge in the Congressional Black Caucus. She hasn't even written him back. So we're concerned about not just crime but also about jobs. And Donald Trump has tapped into that anxiety, and that's why he's doing so well in the polls.
HANNITY: I want to put up the poll numbers here, because we have got one poll, there is only one poll out today, and this is an Iowa. Look at this, Walker, 18, Trump is in second place tied with Ben Carson at 10 percent. Nationally he's second behind Jeb Bush. I don't think what you are understanding is this country when you look at the costs, the economic costs to our criminal justice system, our healthcare system, our educational system, of the mass influx of illegal immigrants that come here I'm sure because they want opportunity, Juan, the vast majority of them, it is having a dramatic impact negatively on our economy. And people are fed up.
WILLIAMS: It's having a tremendous positive impact. That's why employers keep asking for more of those workers.
HANNITY: They want cheap labor.
WILLIAMS: You just hit it. They want cheap labor.
HANNITY: Wait a minute, there are 93 million Americans out of the labor force, 50 million Americans in poverty, Juan. They're now competing with all these people crossing the borders for limited jobs.
WILLIAMS: John McCain, senator from Arizona right there on the border, says that is in fact not true.
HANNITY: John McCain is not getting elected again.
WILLIAMS: OK, so in other words you acknowledge that all we're doing is pumping up Donald Trump's name recognition and saying Donald Trump is screaming about --
HANNITY: Donald Trump is telling a truth that you cannot stand, which is we have a huge problem with open borders. Final word, Larry.
WILLIAMS: Open borders? Asians are the biggest group coming in, not Mexicans.
HANNITY: Larry.
ELDER: It's been estimated that in California alone, $25 billion when you add in the educational costs of kids who are the children of people that came here and had kids -- $25 billion a year in California alone. And Donald Trump is tapped into that anxiety.
WILLIAMS: Larry, let me tell you, this is the kind of divisive kind of rhetoric that was once aimed at black people. Now you have black people concerned about Hispanics. And I think it is ill-serving us as an American people to engage in this kind of Donald Trump rhetoric. And the idea we would attack Mexicans? They're our neighbors. My goodness.
HANNITY: Who is talking about attacking them? They should be good neighbors.
WILLIAMS: They are good neighbors.
HANNITY: Excuse me. Look, I was on one side of the border -- poverty, shacks that people live in, kids playing in what we would describe is a junk yard. On the other side is half-million dollar homes in San Diego. I don't blame the people that want to come over. But there is so many criminal elements smuggling people, these coyotes that --
WILLIAMS: They come from all over the world. They take advantage --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: People are dying on the ranches of Americans. You have drugs being smuggled into our cities, into the veins of our kids. We need to control the border. Donald Trump is right.
WILLIAMS: Sean, paranoia --
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: I got to run. Larry, good to see you.
ELDER: Most Americans believe that --
HANNITY: I don't know about.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: All right, coming up. Why are you laughing so hard?
WILLIAMS: You don't know if you're glad to see me. OK, no hug next time. That's what I'm going to do to you.
HANNITY: What's that?
WILLIAMS: No hugs.
HANNITY: Maybe you can show his face that he's actually laughing.
(LAUGHTER)
HANNITY: All right, coming up, the State Department released thousands of Hillary's e-mails late last night. And guess what, it is putting former Obama adviser David Axelrod on the defensive. Why? Because he lied through his teeth, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Welcome back to "Hannity. "
So last night during the State Department released more than 3,000 emails from Hillary Clinton and her tenure during her time as secretary of state. Here now with all of the details, our own Ed Henry. Ed, does she really have that hard of a time with a fax machine? And she doesn't know when cabinet meetings are? Very revealing?
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Some interesting moments. She heard on the radio there might be a cabinet meeting, wanted to get in on that. It turned out it wasn't a cabinet meeting after all, went back and forth, 15 minutes of emails back and forth with her adviser, Huma Abedin, as you suggest, about how to use the fax machine. Some lighter moments, perhaps. Serious moments, though, about Benghazi, as you've heard, also about Sidney Blumenthal's role as an outside adviser while she was secretary of state. It turns out he was involved much earlier in 2009, earlier than we ever knew even though the White House had banned him from working here at the State Department.
The other interesting issue is that David Axelrod said just a couple weeks ago, he suggested that like Bill Daley, the former chief of staff at the White House, he didn't know anything about Hillary Clinton's private email deal. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: It is unusual. He was a chief of staff. I confess I didn't. I was there. I was the senior adviser. I didn't know that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you did find out when you were there would you say, hey, whoa, wait a minute, guys, should we all talk about this?
AXELROD: I might have asked a few questions about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now it turns out in some of the emails that were released by the State Department that David Axelrod actually sent at least one email to Hillary Clinton's private account. So he did know about it. He's clarifying today and saying, look, he knew she had a private account. He didn't know that she was using it exclusively, and he did not know that she was using a private server. But as you can see, these emails raising new questions, Sean.
HANNITY: Where I come from, that might be called a lie by some people. It's going to be interesting to see the fallout from that.
All right, Ed Henry on the campaign trail. Ed, good to see you. Thank you.
Now with more reaction, author of "The Queen, The Epic Ambition of Hillary Clinton and the Coming of a Second Clinton Era" radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt. God forbid, that sounds like a lie to me. I think David Axelrod lied. "Rahm-bo dead fish" knew about it. Podesta knew about it. Lanny Davis apparently knew about the account. They all knew about it, right?
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, you know, Sean, I was the guy who asked Bill Daley on the meet the press if he knew about the server, he said no. I was on the set when David Axelrod was asked by me in response to my comments about the server. He said no.
I can believe they didn't know about the server because it is so reckless it endangered the national security.
HANNITY: But they knew about the email account and they denied knowing it.
HEWITT: They knew about the email. But Axelrod was asked specifically about the server that morning. So I don't want to turn way from the fact that Hillary's server is the issue. Mike Morell told me on my show, I'm sure he told you as well, Sean, the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, they all knew about Hillary's server, they all compromised it. They have all emails that we're getting in drips and drabs from the State Department, and they even have the ones that she erased, her Nixon Tapes emails.
HANNITY: I'd be willing to raise some money and go to the Chinese and Vladimir Putin. I'd be willing to buy all the emails.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNITY: What?
HEWITT: And Democrats have to worry about them being released in the middle of the campaign by other people that had previously given them to Gawker and by a foreign intelligence agency, because they're out there.
HANNITY: Do you really believe this is the beginning of a second Clinton era? You really feel confident she's going to win?
HEWITT: She is the prohibitive favorite right now, Sean. I write in "The Queen" that the Irish bookies right now have her as a 10 to 11 favorite, and the next closest is Jeb Bush as seven to one. But these emails and this server are a potentially campaign derailing event. And I think the more we focus on them. In fact, there was one story in there, I'll tell you about Goodwin Liu, an associate justice of the California Supreme Court, he gives us a look inside of Hillary's operation and her mindset. She'll say anything to anyone at any time to win. That makes her a pretty formidable foe. But now we're getting to see inside of the China closet. That's a good thing to know.
HANNITY: All right, the book is called "The Queen, The Epic Ambition of Hillary Clinton and the Coming of a Second Clinton Era." Thanks, Hugh.
Coming up, we need your help. Our "Question of the Day" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HANNITY: Time for tonight's "Question of the Day." Do you think the left is trying to take away Christian's rights to their religious liberty and freedom? Just go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, Twitter @SeanHannity, let us know what you think. That is all the time we have left this evening. As always, thank you for being with us. We'll see you back here tomorrow night.
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