Jeff Sessions questions why Democrats voted for impeachment only to lose their nerve

This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," December 19, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Tucker Carlson, host: Good evening and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." You know the feeling you have after some momentous life-changing event, the birth of a child or a funeral or some unexpected medical diagnosis. Those are the moments that define your life, of course.

And so, you wake up the next morning and you realize nothing will ever be the same. Well, that was definitely not the feeling you had this morning. They impeached the president last night. And if we’re being honest, didn’t really make any difference. Despite weeks of loud and urgent noises gleefully amplified by the mouth breathers on cable television, the votes last night came and went and then drumroll please, nothing changed. We didn’t learn anything. Nobody grew. Democrats seemed almost theatrically insincere when they began this process some weeks ago. And then by yesterday, they were every bit as fraudulent.


Nancy Pelosi: So, I soundly and sadly open the debate on the impeachment of the president of the United States.

Female Speaker: It’s with profound sadness that I stand here today in support of these articles of impeachment.

Male Speaker: I’m saddened we’re here today.

Female Speaker: I come to impeachment with deep sadness.

Male Speaker: I rise on a sad day for America, a sad day for Texas, and a very sad day for the people I represent.

Male Speaker: This is a sad day for our country and for our democracy.

Male Speaker: This is indeed a sad day for our country.

Male Speaker: This is a very sad day.

Female Speaker: Member Speaker, this is a sad day in U.S. history.

Male Speaker: I have to say that this is a sad day.

Male Speaker: This is a sad day. It is not a day of joy.


Tucker Carlson: [LAUGHS] Now, you can mock the mindless conformity of what you just saw. But honestly, you’ve got to admire the discipline that a moment like that must have required. These are people by and large, with disorganized and chaotic personal lives. That’s why their leftists in the first place, because they’re deeply unhappy. They don’t make their beds. They hate their dads. But when it comes to political talking points, suddenly, they’re Germanic in their efficiency. For a moment last night, though, the masked slipped. When the impeachment resolution finally passed, onlookers began to cheer. Pelosi had to remind them to shut up.


Nancy Pelosi: The yays are 230. The nays are 197. Present is one. Article one is adopted.


Tucker Carlson: Yeah. Shh. Ixnay on the eering-chay. [LAUGHS] The Washington Post had trouble with hat message, too. They just couldn’t keep a straight face after last night’s vote went through. The newspaper’s congressional reporting team, air quotes around all of that, went out to dinner to celebrate what they called, “Merry Impeachmas.” That’s the one holiday they celebrate. The Post tweeted about it, but later deleted the tweet. Apparently, it wasn’t solemn enough, Pelosi’s orders. By this morning, though, the embargo on authentic emotion had finally ended. The mission had been accomplished and Democrats were finally allowed to break character and be themselves, if only briefly. So, they were. Actually, they conceded impeachment was awesome. Pelosi herself set the new tone. Watch.


Nancy Pelosi: We’ve been hearing from people all over the country in the last -- since last night and this morning. Seems like people have a spring in their step.


Tucker Carlson: Wow. So, that’s not what we were told. But, you know, things change. It turns out impeachment isn’t a sad event. It’s not solemn. No. It’s a piñata party. It’s a cause for celebration. And by the way, don’t worry, it was never about saving the republic or preserving the constitution or any of that heavy stuff we told you before. Those long speeches about the framers? “Just kidding,” say Democrats. Impeachment was never about removing the president. No. It was always just a prank. It was the political equivalent of a flaming bag of dog bombs on the country’s front steps. “We made our point,” Democrats are saying. “We don’t need to continue.” Seriously, that’s what they’re saying. That’s the new talking point. It’s hard to believe. But the tape doesn’t lie. Senior Democrats are now telling us they may not even pass articles of impeachment onto the Senate. In fact, no less a figure than House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn is urging Democrats, brace yourselves, to let impeachment die. Watch this.


The Press: Are you suggesting it’s possible you will never transmit the articles of impeachment?

Jim Clyburn: If it were me, yes, that’s what I’m saying. I have no idea what the speaker would do. But if you have a pre-ordained outcome that’s negative to your actions, why walk into it? I’d much rather not take a chance.


Tucker Carlson: Huh. So, after three years of nonstop screeching about the moral necessity of impeachment -- and by the way, the left specializes in screeching about moral necessities -- but now they’re telling us they don’t really want impeachment. Are you confused? Well, that’s only because you don’t think like a leftist. To interpret what’s actually happening in Washington, we’re joined by a legitimate expert on the ways of the city, someone who has learned this through suffering. Jeff Sessions spent decades in the United States Senate before becoming the country’s attorney general. He’s now running for Senate once again from the state of Alabama, from which he joins us tonight. Senator, thanks so much for coming on. What do make of this -- why are Democrats suddenly telling us after all these years that they don’t want to pass the articles on to the senate?

Jeff Sessions, former attorney general: One reason may well be, Tucker, that they can imagine what it’s going to be like on the floor of the Senate. I remember when the Clinton impeachment went forward. And I was in the Senate. Lindsey Graham was a congressman and one of the presenters, the managers of the case. They laid out, based on a record in the House, a detailed prosecution, basically, of three separate felonies that Clinton had committed. And I believe they proved it beyond a reasonable doubt, to a moral certainty. And I just can’t imagine what would happen when you end up with one of these vague charges like abuse of power or obstruction of justice. This all could even be laughable. If they were going to back off, it would have been so much better for America had they done it before they voted this impeachment. That does damage to our country to weaken the moral authority and the constitutional requirements of impeachment.

Tucker Carlson: Well, and it’s also confusing as heck, if I can say, and bizarre. So, they spend three years shouting about this. We go through the whole rigmarole of passing these charges, in effect, and now they’re telling us that they don’t want to press them. So, why did they do that? Wouldn’t it have just been easier just to keep screeching and not go through the process of impeachment?

Jeff Sessions: Absolutely. I thought they might even do that. They -- it became clear to me and the articles of impeachment themselves prove there’s not a basis for an impeachment here. It’s just an absolute abuse. And why they didn’t stop before they voted this way, I cannot imagine. now it may -- they made it even worse by voting impeachment and now losing their nerve when they have to present the weak case.

Tucker Carlson: So, you are running for Senate in Alabama. But as noted, you spent literally decades in the Senate. You know virtually everyone in it. So, with the deep knowledge you have of t he body, tell us how likely you think it is that if these charges make it to the Senate, the president will be convicted and removed.

Jeff Sessions: I think it’s zero chance. It’s so easy for Republicans to prove and establish, and they will in their speeches and in the record they produce that this is not a justifiable impeachment. The American people need to fully understand this is not a justifiable impeachment.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Jeff Sessions: Abuse of power because the president made me angry is not a basis for impeachment.

Tucker Carlson: [LAUGHS] No, it’s not. Being angry is not a high crime or misdemeanor. So, I have to ask you, since you’ve been -- you were one of the early and persistent voices on trade in the Republican Party, a lone voice a lot of the time. The USMCA passes the House., the trade deal with Canada and Mexico. Is it a good deal for the United States?

Jeff Sessions: It’s so much better than NAFTA. And I travel with President Trump all over this country and I saw him hammering NAFTA. You remember he said it was the worst trade deal in history.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Jeff Sessions: He can’t believe that they negotiated such an abomination. And now, he, alone, had the courage to take it on. Nobody else was saying that. And he’s pushed it through Congress. It’s a great victory for him. He did the right thing for America. It wouldn’t have happened had he not led -- and the Democrats trying to claim some credit. Okay. But he got it done. And it’s clearly better for America than the old NAFTA agreement.

Tucker Carlson: Well, that assessment carries some weight coming from you. Senator Sessions, thanks so much for coming on tonight. I appreciate it.

Jeff Sessions: Thank you. Merry Christmas.

Tucker Carlson: Merry Christmas. Thank you. Congressman Mike Johnson represents Shreveport, Louisiana, north Louisiana. He joins us tonight. Congressman, thanks so much for coming on.

Rep. Mike Johnson: Delighted to be with you.

Tucker Carlson: So, you’re right in the middle of it as a serving member of the House of Representatives. Now Democrats are telling us, “Just kidding.” What was this about?

Mike Johnson: Unbelievable. I mean, they were breathless with the sense of urgency --

Tucker Carlson: Yes.

Mike Johnson: -- remember? The reason that they brought article two of the impeachment article was they said he was obstructing Congress. Well, what did that mean? He didn’t willingly give you all of the direct communications he had with high-ranking consultants in the White House? That’s what every administration’s done. They said --

Tucker Carlson: Right.

Mike Johnson: -- “Oh, but we can’t go to a court like everyone’s done before because we have to get this done right now. Donald Trump is an existential threat to the republic. He’s a threat to the Constitution.“ They were just saying this, like, 48 hours ago. And now, suddenly, oh, well, we're just going to hold it in abeyance now we'll just see what happens we'll see what develops. I mean, it's comedy.

Tucker Carlson: So, do they have a plan? I mean, it's confusing for those of us on the outside looking in. You're thinking maybe we're giving them too much credit for it. I mean, are they are they dumb? Is there must be some plan, right?

Mike Johnson: Can I tell you the insider view? No, they have no plan. They've been making this up as they've gone along. It began with the engineered special secret top secret hearings that Adam Schiff had in the basement and they changed their theory of impeachment about six times. They're literally making this up as they go, and I think Pelosi someone's gave the analogy today she's pulled the pin out of a grenade she's holding it in her hand. She doesn't know what to do with it right now. She lobs it over the wall. McConnell's is ready for that. The president's ready he wants to go to trial. They just they've created for themselves a real mess. And I think it's political malpractice.

Tucker Carlson: Which sounds like they've hit a brick. I think, by the way, it couldn't happen to better people or be more deserved in my view, what do you think's likely to happen?

Mike Johnson: It's a very good question. I know what will happen in the meantime is the country will be further divided. I mean, this is why the founding fathers warned us they feared a single party impeachment. They said don't go down that road because you're going to divide the public perhaps irreparably. And that's what we have right now, and they should have never done this. It's a a single party impeachment, and it is completely evidence free. I mean, there is no merit whatsoever to either of these two articles and it's going to be so easy for the Senate to bat it down. I think they should have some trial, but we may not get the chance because Pelosi may never send it over.

Tucker Carlson: So, you think that's a possibility?

Mike Johnson: I really do.

Tucker Carlson: That this might be the end of impeachment. It would be kind of half an impeachment.

Mike Johnson: I think anything's possible at this point. We've learned not to be surprised anymore with the Democrats in charge. It does say in the resolution, importantly, it charges the Democrats in Congress of exhibiting the articles in the Senate. Now, it doesn't say a time limit it doesn't say when, but their presumption would be that they'd run it right over there remember, there is so urgent about this. That's not happening so we'll see what develops.

Tucker Carlson: It is just the weirdest thing I think I've ever seen.

Mike Johnson: It is.

Tucker Carlson: Congressman Mike Johnson, great to see you. Thank you for that.

Mike Johnson: Thanks, Tucker.

Tucker Carlson: You just you confirmed a lot of our suspicions.

Mike Johnson: Sadly.

Tucker Carlson: Hard to believe they're true. Well, throughout the impeachment process, the party that pushes to keep abortion legal until the moment of birth said it was necessary all of this was being done on behalf of wait for it the children.


Male Speaker: I could not look my granddaughter or any member of future generations in the eye having condone actions that undermine our democratic system.

Male Speaker: I have two grandchildren and they'll want to know what I did to stop him.

Female Speaker: And our grandchildren will be left with what we did here today.

Female Speaker: I will tell my grandson that I stood up for our democracy.

Female Speaker: That is my duty as a mother.

Female Speaker: When her future children learn about President Trump's impeachment. They may ask Mommy, what did grandma do? I want my daughter to be able to tell her children grandma did the right thing because in America, no one is above the law.


Tucker Carlson: Yea that's a really good point. When Sean Davis co-founded The Federalist of course, he did it for his children and his grandchildren because nobody is above the law and that's why he's joining us tonight. Sean Davis drowning in a torrent of clichés it is great to see you tonight. So this was done for the children. If you were to rank the various explanations we've heard for impeachment, founding fathers, bribery, for the children, which is the most compelling, would you say?

Sean Davis, The Federalist: Oh, gosh, I don't think there has been a compelling one.

Tucker Carlson: No.

Sean Davis: The whole do it for the kids nonsense. You know, it didn't work out oh, Trump's a traitor. He committed treason. He bribed. He extorted. None of that works so they just ended up with oh, yeah he was mean to future generations of kids, which is a laugh riot. Coming from a party that believes in unlimited taxpayer funded abortion up to the moment of birth and a party that has been a big part of building up 23 trillion in our national debt. That those kids are going to have to pay so you'll have to forgive me if I don't buy it.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah, well, exactly. So apparently just moments ago, Amy Klobuchar, senator running for president, kind of nice person I think maybe not the brightest, but she described this as a, quote, global Watergate. I think that's the phrase global Watergate. Without the context to pick any clue, would you dare to guess what that means?

Sean Davis: I have no idea. I'm a little worried for the staffer that probably wrote that for her. She's going to get brutalized afterward because it doesn't make any sense to me.

Tucker Carlson: And apologies if I'm getting a second and through an earpiece, but apologies if I have that wrong. I mean, look, it's no dumber about I'm hearing it’s definitely right a global Watergate it's no dumber than any other explanation. So, my instinct is that the Democrats have walked into a kind of man trap of their own making. This is going to hurt them is that wishful thinking?

Sean Davis: No, it's been it's been such a debacle. It's like watching a bunch of monkeys try to hump a doorknob. I have no clue what they're doing right now. They have said it was an urgent threat to remove this president. We have to get rid of him. And then all of a sudden.

Tucker Carlson: Wait stop I'm trying to get that please take back I want that image out of my head. Sorry, excuse. I want to say I'm sorry to our viewers because that will haunt a lot of them, including me anyway. I beg your pardon. Keep going.

Sean Davis: This whole thing culminated after we were told that there's this urgent threat in them doing exactly nothing in holding the impeachment articles over through the new year. So, all their rhetoric has been absolute nonsense. It's been bad faith from the beginning, and they're in such a mess that I don't know how they get themselves out of it at this point.

Tucker Carlson: Well, I kind of agree and maybe it seems like the problem is nobody's in charge. I mean, you have Pelosi, who's clearly no genius, but she does understand politics and I think, you know, she she does have grandchildren in real life, and she wants the country to continue. She's on the one side. Then you have people like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who's like an open bigot, nihilists who's got no kids and doesn't care at all about the country and she's pushing in another direction. So maybe that, like, nobody's running the thing.

Sean Davis: Well, I almost feel bad for Pelosi because I don't.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Sean Davis: think she's an idiot. I think politically, she knows what she's doing, and she basically got bullied into this by her own caucus. She was trying to avoid it for years, even though Dems wanted this from the beginning. And I think she finally lost control and I think it's the squad and the most deranged and delusional of the left-wing base that's calling the shots here and it's why it's become such a mess for them.

Tucker Carlson: Man, so the president last question is saying that he would like a trial A.S.A.P. as just a pure political matter and that seems like a fair thing to ask for. But as a political matter, what you think helps the president more.

Sean Davis: You know, that's a tough question. If I were the one being charged, I would want a full trial. I would want the facts to come out and I'd want it to be shown that I didn't do anything wrong but I get that the Senate doesn't want to go down that road. They don't want to repeat what the House has done and waste all this time on something that nobody cares about and isn't going to happen. So it's I get his frustration, but I see why the Senate is doing what it's doing.

Tucker Carlson: And it’s just, you know, it's not like there's nothing else going on in the world, like we're in trouble and we need to address it. Sean, great to see you tonight and thank you on behalf of the children for what you've said.

Sean Davis: Thank you, Tucker.

Tucker Carlson: Well, the FBI, it turns out, lied to a federal court in order to spy on the U.S citizens no big deal say, our allies on cable news its totally fine don't worry about it. And then the leaders of our law enforcement community, the intel community, lied to the public as well. That's not speculation, the IG report confirmed this, but it also stopped short of saying any of this was done for political reasons. OK. Now, the inspector general himself is saying that does nothing to exonerate the FBI. Another twist and turn in this sordid tale of America's law enforcement agencies after the break.


Tucker Carlson: Well, the DOJ’s inspector general’s report that came out last week exposed more than a dozen abuses of the FISA process, 17, I think, by the FBI, all for the sake of spying on a U.S. citizen who, not incidentally, happened to be working for the Trump campaign. Really no precedent for what happened. The only upside of all of this, the point that the FBI’s many defenders on cable news are trumpeting, is that according to that report, these abuses were not driven by political bias to the extent they could know that. But this week, Inspector General Michael Horowitz pushed back somewhat on that interpretation. While the investigation didn’t cover any documentary evidence of bias, it’s not like FBI agents were attacking Trump voters as Wal-Mart -- oh, I’m sorry. They were doing that. Whatever. There wasn’t, I guess, a lot of documentary evidence. That’s not the same as proving that the Russia investigation was free of partisanship. Senator Josh Hawley has been watching this very carefully. He represents, of course, the state of Missouri. And we’re always happy to have him on the show. Senator, thanks so much for coming on. So, there’s a distinction, a difference, meaningful one between saying, “We didn’t find written evidence that this was motivated by political animus,” and that there was no bias correct?

Sen. Josh Hawley: That’s exactly right. And in fact, what the inspector general said to me, Tucker, was that there may well have been political bias when it came time for the FBI to go get surveillance warrants on Carter Page. That’s the Trump campaign aide who they surveilled, who they eavesdropped on during the presidential campaign. we need to be really clear here. All the inspector general said in his report was that when they opened the case file, that he couldn’t find any evidence of bias. But opening a case file is one thing, actually going out and getting warrants, actually eavesdropping, that’s something totally different. And the inspector general told me there very well could have been bias in that -- in those circumstances.

Tucker Carlson: What’s -- I mean, there’s so many layers of irony here.

But maybe the most obvious is the president was impeached yesterday because he talked to the president of Ukraine and mentioned potential malfeasance by the son of his potential political opponent in the next campaign. And that’s impeachable. The last administration literally pulled a FISA warrant on its political enemies, but that’s no big deal? How does this work?

Josh Hawley: Yeah. Oh, you're absolutely right, Tucker. I mean, this is unprecedented in our history. The DNC, Democratic Party, paid for this dossier that we now know is totally fake. They fed it to the FBI and the FBI used it and lied to a court, not once, not twice, not three times, four times in order to intervene, effectively, in a presidential election, to get a warrant to eavesdrop on a presidential campaign. And the Democrats knew this. During the campaign they knew it. And so, they got news stories written during the campaign that the FBI and other agencies were investigating Trump trying to influence the election. It’s absolutely extraordinary. And the FBI, there’s got to be major reform, Tucker. We cannot allow this to keep happening.

Tucker Carlson: Really quick, would it be really cool for the Trump DOJ to get FISA warrants on aides to Bernie Sanders for their ties to Venezuela, for example? Would that be all right, do you think?

Josh Hawley: Can you imagine what would happen if that were actually the case? Of course it wouldn’t --

Tucker Carlson: I wouldn’t defend it.

Josh Hawley: -- be all right. It would be -- absolutely, it would be an abuse of power.

Tucker Carlson: Right. That’s right.

Josh Hawley: It would be an abuse of power. And that’s what happened when the FBI lied to the FISA court and used paid political opposition to go out and get surveillance warrants on a presidential campaign.

Tucker Carlson: Exactly. It seems very clearly and you certainly have expressed it clearly. We’re thankful for that. Senator, thanks so much for coming on tonight.

Josh Hawley: Thank you.

Tucker Carlson: Well the ongoing decline of our political culture has tracked closely with the decline in standards at CNN, which has been precipitous. Just yesterday, the network spent the entire day working unpaid, we assume, for Nancy Pelosi, parroting her talking points to the letter about how solemn and prayerful impeachment is.


Female Speaker: You can feel it in the air here. It feels different. It is palpable that this is momentous that this is grave, and again, it is, despite the Democrats talking points, not something that this speaker wanted to do.

Male Speaker: I mean, it’s a somber, somber mood up on Capitol Hill.

Male Speaker: She says it’s a sad day and a sober day. But this has been a hard one for Speaker Pelosi. She was initially against this.

Male Speaker: And this is certainly a very solemn and weighty moment.

Male Speaker: It’s a very solemn moment, but it’s a reminder of how our system was supposed to work.

Male Speaker: I think the far left is definitely fired up about this. But this is a solemn moment.

Male Speaker: I know Trump makes fun of the fact that Nancy Pelosi says she’s prayerful and that it’s a somber moment. It is. It really is.


Tucker Carlson: You know, if you have any self-respect at all, you don’t read other people’s talking points unless they’re paying you in cash ahead of time. I think those people are doing it for free, which tells you a lot. But the embarrassment at CNN is not just on the air, it’s also digital. Just this morning, CNN’s reporter Marshall Cowen tweeted this, “It’s impossible not to notice how Trump and Putin are on the same page. Here’s what Putin just said,” bullet point, “Trump is being impeached for made up reasons. There was no pressure on Ukraine. This is happening because one party lost the elections. There was no collusion.” [LAUGHS] You get that? Following the reasoning here from CNN’s reporter? Because Donald Trump is annoyed that he was impeached based on a hoax, he’s colluding with Vladimir Putin. And by the way, doesn’t this mean that Putin is doing the bidding of Trump and not the other way around? Whatever. It’s just more mindless crap from CNN. And another reason not to watch that channel. But if you’re stuck in an airport, as you well know, you have no choice. As we first reported exclusively on this program, because it was news you could use, CNN is paying millions of dollars to pump propaganda into America’s airports, holding its hapless travelers hostage. CNN has contracts with 58 airports across this country. It pays them more than $100,000 each, on average, to play CNN at their gates. It’s not something they would do willingly. Who would? Nobody watches it. It’s garbage. This service is likely costing CNN at least $6 million a year, but they do it anyway because what’s the value of propaganda [LAUGHS]? Author and columnist Mark Steyn joins us to assess all of this. So, CNN pays --

Mark Steyn, author and columnist: Yeah.

Tucker Carlson: -- to assault you in airports? I mean, I’m not saying this should be a crime. But I’m kind of thinking it sounds like one.

Mark Steyn: Yeah. They pay over $6 million to bother people, to hector people in airports. You know, for $6 million, they could actually afford to buy Murder, She Wrote reruns with Angela Lansbury and they might have dubbed into [unintelligible]. And they might actually have a sporting chance at some ratings. Instead, if you go -- I was at LAX yesterday while the anchors were talking about what a sad, somber, solemn, sorrowful day it is. And people did look sad, somber, sorrowful, and solemn, but that was because they’d been stuck at gate 59 watching Wolf Blitzer for four hours. I don’t -- I think -- what’s going on here, actually, Tucker, is a portent of the future. Because contemporary American air travel is the most advanced form of the progressive state. It’s everything the progressives want. There’s, you know, no smoking. There’s no probable cause. If the TSA guy gets out the latex glove and wants to give you an enhanced pat down, you got no say in it.

Tucker Carlson: [LAUGHS]

Mark Steyn: If you if you disrespect the process, the flight attendant kind have you thrown off the plane and all the rest of it. And the perfect complement for that kind of coerced safe space is to have Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper along for the ride. I mean, that front, quite frankly, when they when they say to me, we might have to give you an enhanced pat down. I say sure, take your time there's nothing on the other side of the TSA except Anderson Cooper interviewing Greta Thunberg for the full hour. Take it get out as many latex gloves as you want and take your time.

Tucker Carlson: So, you're saying that Don Lemon is the soundtrack of the authoritarianism of tomorrow of the brave new world we're entering?

Mark Stein: Absolutely. I think CNN is the perfect soundtrack for the coerced, safe space. You know, they claim to reach three hundred and twenty nine million people through airports, which is three hundred and twenty eight million nine hundred and ninety thousand more than they reach without airports and even if most of that three hundred and twenty nine million people is one oversold United flight at gate 22 at LaGuardia, it still means that people are being forced to watch CNN without any choice in the matter. That's the future. These guys are planning for you folks and in the end, the new America will be like the airport.

Tucker Carlson: Compulsory cable news, the governor's brother, whether you want him or not. Mark Stein.

Mark Stein: Absolutely.

Tucker Carlson: Genius. Thank you. Great to see you tonight.

Mark Stein: Thanks a lot, Tucker.

Tucker Carlson: Well, here's a sentence we've read before, and it's true every time. Bizarre new developments in the Jeffrey Epstein case for you this evening we'll tell you what they are next.


Tucker Carlson: Well, as you well know, there are plenty of reasons to be at least skeptical about the way Jeffrey Epstein died, the overworked guards working for free, apparently the botched suicide protocol, the autopsy, which apparently showed the injuries that are more common in homicides than in suicides. And then this week there was another development that's surprising, if not more than that. Officials said that the video footage of Epstein's first attempted suicide at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan are missing apparently had been destroyed just a short time before this show started. Officials said they recovered the footage, though, remains to be seen if there's anything suspicious about it or what's on it. In fact, we've no to tell whatsoever. That's what we're happy to be talking to Ed Gavin, a retired deputy warden for the New York City Department of Corrections, and he joins us tonight. Ed thanks so much for coming on what do you make of this?

Ed Gavin, retired deputy warden for the New York City Department of Corrections: Well, the fact that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing is certainly suspect. Yeah. Another thing that I would say I would add to it is that when the probe team initially responded to the attempted suicide, they should have responded to the area with a handheld camera. So, in addition to the cameras that are fixed in stationary positions on the walls, the officers should have been recording everything going on during the response. So really, they should've had two sets of tapes. So, something is not right the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

Tucker Carlson: Well, especially in this case. I mean, this wasn't some guy awaiting a DUI hearing this was the most famous prisoner in the United States about him there were all kinds of conspiracy theories. There was daily press coverage of his imprisonment. I mean, there was a ton of attention and so given that, these lapses seem even weirder.

Ed Gavin: Well yea in addition to that, the fact that they placed Jeffrey Epstein in a cell with Nicholas Tartaglione.

Tucker Carlson: Yea.

Ed Gavin: Who is a former Briarcliff man and New York police officer, I mean, Tartaglione is a suicide risk and an escape risk. I mean, I have a letter from Maureen Komi, the United States attorney in my hand here and I was doing some research and I learned that on July 3 in this letter states this, that 20 days before Tartaglione became a cellmate with Epstein, he was found to be in possession of a cell phone. How does a maximum-security prisoner like Tartaglione, who allegedly killed four people, one who has ties to a Mexican drug cartel, get a cell phone into his cell? Now, that's contraband. Now, his attorney is now trying to stop the government from getting a search warrant to check the phone out. So, I mean, I don't know what's going on at this place, but it's just it gets crazier by the minute. And then I have another letter from Tartaglione's attorney, and he basically states in some substance that Tartaglione is suffering from depression he was assaulted. He received a wanton, gratuitous beating when he was taken out of protective custody and he's got a metal plate in his head. So why would you put these guys in the same cell? This whole thing doesn't make any sense.

Tucker Carlson: So, what you're saying is the guy who was put for reasons that are not at all clear into the same cell as Jeffrey Epstein was communicating with unknown people on the outside unauthorized.

Ed Gavin: Well, we don't know. I mean, the fact that he was able to get a cell phone into a federal jail and he's a maximum security prisoner and he's now he's an escape risk and a suicide risk and then you take Jeffrey Epstein, who's also an escape risk and the reason he's an escape route is he's got 557 million dollars in the bank and he could pay people to facilitate an escape. I don't know if you're aware this, Tucker, but since 1978, there have been six attempts in federal prisons where people have flown in helicopters.

Tucker Carlson: Yes.

Ed Gavin: To remove inmates from custody. So, anything is possible. So, I don’t know what this warden is thinking about over there. But security is basically thrown out the, you know, with the bathwater. I just don’t get it, you know? It doesn’t make any sense.

Tucker Carlson: Well and Epstein, I mean, maybe more to the point, was in the possession of a lot of incriminating information that might destroy the lives and reputations of famous and affluent people.

Ed Gavin: Well, let me say one more thing, Tucker.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Ed Gavin: Our government has failed us. When the federal government first had to prosecute Jeffrey Epstein in 2008 --

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Ed Gavin: -- okay? He should have gone to jail under the federal charges. And he didn’t.

Tucker Carlson: Oh, I know.

Ed Gavin: And you know what the biggest failure there was, in my investigation -- in that I believe in that investigation that no one is talking about? And it’s this -- Child Protective Services was never notified.

Tucker Carlson: [unintelligible]

Ed Gavin: There were never any CPS involved. And these children should have been taken to a child advocacy center.

Tucker Carlson: And -- but you know who was notified, an entire legion of lawyers, some of whom I know --

Ed Gavin: Exactly.

Tucker Carlson: -- here in D.C., both Democrat and Republican who got him off.

Ed Gavin: Exactly.

Tucker Carlson: Tells you everything.

Ed Gavin: Exactly.

Tucker Carlson: So, Ed, great to see you tonight.

Ed Gavin: Thanks for having me.

Tucker Carlson: A member of the president’s cabinet has a new reason to build a border wall and he has a plan to actually build it. Why? Because he’s a sincere environmentalist. That’s why. He cares about the environment. You should do. Interesting segment, just ahead.


Tucker Carlson: President Obama’s former physician says he has major concerns about Joe Biden’s health. Kind of an amazing development. Chief Breaking News Correspondent Trace Gallagher has the details for us tonight. Hey, Trace.

Trace Gallagher, Fox News: Hey, Tucker. Joe Biden’s doctor led off his three-page letter saying that Biden is a, “healthy, vigorous 77 year old,” but then come the caveats, namely that Biden has an irregular heartbeat, high cholesterol, and a history of brain aneurisms. Back in 1988, he had two aneurysms and the first was nearly fatal. But Dr. David Shiner, who was Barack Obama’s personal physician for 22 years before he became president says, “Biden’s report has a red flag,” specifically, what Dr. Shiner believes is the former vice president’s potential for strokes, saying he would like to see an MRI or CT scan. In fact, Dr. Shiner finds it interesting that considering Biden’s past health problems, the new report does not mention an MRI, quoting here, “I had no idea Biden had such a history. My goodness gracious, he’s got a lot of history.” The report also says nothing about Biden’s vision, even though his eye filled with blood during a town hall. Biden blamed a contact lens mishap. Finally, the report does note that Joe Biden has an enlarged prostate and has undergone surgeries for orthopedic injuries. Tucker.

Tucker Carlson: His eyes filled with blood, not a big deal. People are so uptight. Trace Gallagher, great to see you.

Trace Gallagher: You, too.

Tucker Carlson: Well, thanks to America’s border crisis, every year, tens of thousands of people come illegally across our southern border, immigrants, human traffickers, drug smugglers, in some cases. And they come into the desert along the U.S./Mexico border. The fragile desert ecosystems there are damaged by that. That’s been known for a long time. If you cared about the environment, you would care about that. And yet, anyone who raises alarms is called names. We don’t care because we care about the environment and this country. A member of President Trump's cabinet is here tonight to tell us about what the administration is doing in the face of this crisis. David Bernhardt is the U.S. Secretary of the Interior and he joins us tonight. Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for coming on.

Secretary of the Interior David Bernhardt: Thanks for having me.

Tucker Carlson: So, this has been a problem acknowledged by Democrat and Republican administrations for a long time, for decades. And it’s a real problem. What is this administration doing to help fix it?

David Bernhardt: Well, the reality is that common sense says when you have tremendous trafficking, ad hoc trails, trash, debris, and fires, you have a lot of damage to native vegetation, wildlife, and to the ecosystem. And so --

Tucker Carlson: Trash, debris, and fires? So, we’re not allowed to be concerned about that. But if you cared about the environment, that would be a concern, correct?

David Bernhardt: You sure would think so. Indeed. I went down and personally inspected a number of sites on the border. And the reality was that where we put a wall, we have habitat restoration taking place, environmental flora and fauna begin to come back instead of it being trampled. And the reality is the wall will provide additional environmental benefits. And that is simply a fact.

Tucker Carlson: So, a huge percentage, I think at least half of the wildfires, the fires along that border, are caused by people here illegally.

David Bernhardt: That’s right.

Tucker Carlson: Environmental groups don’t say anything about that.

David Bernhardt: They don’t.

Tucker Carlson: Why don’t they?

David Bernhardt: Well, I think it doesn’t fit the narrative. I mean, the reality is those people that claim to be the most opposed to the wall also claim to be the most pro-environmental supporters out there. And this just doesn’t fit with our narrative. The reality is ad hoc trails, debris are extraordinary in the magnitude that they have on the public lands. And the public lands, we have wilderness areas that have essentially been destroyed by illegal activity. And --

Tucker Carlson: Including illegal marijuana farming.

David Bernhardt: Oh, absolutely.

Tucker Carlson: Dumping chemicals into streams.

David Bernhardt: Pesticides.

Tucker Carlson: The Sierra Club just sits there and says nothing --

David Bernhardt: Nothing.

Tucker Carlson: -- as it happens?

David Bernhardt: Radio silent. Radio silent.

Tucker Carlson: Well, I mean, can you imagine a greater betrayal of their stated charge to protect the environment, to ignore environmental degradation like that?

David Bernhardt: Well, and more importantly, it’s something we can actually do something about. I mean, there are a number of environmental issues where you look at it and say, “Well, that would be really hard to solve.” Here’s one that we can actually have a solution. Lower the number of people coming across, provide the ground some restoration and get on with it.

Tucker Carlson: What do you say to people who say that it's something that it's immoral to want to protect the natural landscape of the Southwest United States?

David Bernhardt: Yea the reality is I just think they've never been there. You know, they.

Tucker Carlson: So, people live in apartments in Brooklyn lecturing you about the environment doesn't affect you is that what you're saying.

David Bernhardt: That's exactly right. That I think the reality is that they have not been on the ground and seen the tremendous devastation because anybody that has walks away with a recognition that we need to have common sense solutions, solutions that are real and solutions that will lead to results. And fortunately, we have a president who's willing to say, look, I want to bring the power of government to stop insanity and we're trying to.

Tucker Carlson: Yea build a wall for the environment.

David Bernhardt: Exactly.

Tucker Carlson: Secretary thanks so much for coming on.

David Bernhardt: Thanks a lot for having me.

Tucker Carlson: Nice to meet some who's actually doing something tangible to help the environment. Well, for years, the U.S. government quietly spent millions of dollars investigating UFOs and then they lied about it. Why have they lied about it? One reporter says he knows why. It's interesting. Stay tuned.


Tucker Carlson: Here's a story that, unlike impeachment, actually matters. UFOs for years were treated as the stuff of cranks and weirdos, but recently people who are interested in the topic have been joined by a formidable ally the American military. Turns out for years the Pentagon spent millions investigating UFO phenomenon they've lied about it. However, in a recent piece for The Washington Examiner, columnist Tom Rogan came out with a theory as to why they've been lying and it's worth hearing. Tom Rogan joins us tonight. Tom, thanks so much for coming in.

Tom Rogan, The Washington Examiner: Thanks for having me.

Tucker Carlson: So, one of the things you hear is, well, maybe these objects are Russian or Chinese, but your piece points out Russia and China have literally lost aircrafts chasing these things. So they're not Russian or Chinese.

Tom Rogan: So, we have a declassified British government document. A research document into UFOs that points out a couple of times, actually, that about four Soviet pilots, perhaps Russian pilots since were lost trying to engage these aircrafts.

Tucker Carlson: Were killed.

Tom Rogan: Were killed yea.

Tucker Carlson: Does that say?

Tom Rogan: It doesn't it say how, and I haven't been able to find out how. I did hear from someone, though engaged was an appropriate term to use. So, they were trying to shoot these things down was the implication.

Tucker Carlson: Okay. So, if Russia, China and the U.S. have all had this experience, then these are not.

Tom Rogan: These are not, and I think that's a pretty clear assessment on the part of the military.

Tucker Carlson: These are not made by human beings.

Tom Rogan: No. Well, yeah, I think that's a fair assessment based on the capabilities, especially with some of the aircraft that the Navy have seen in recent years about manifesting. Right. That you have things going hundreds of knots under the water, anti-gravity, instantaneous hypersonic acceleration that you have basically capability performance without jet propulsion. This stuff is not stuff that China or Russia have anywhere near the capability.

Tucker Carlson: Within physics can explain.

Tom Rogan: Exactly.

Tucker Carlson: So why is the Pentagon lying about this? Why they lied about it for so long?

Tom Rogan: I mean, you know, that's the golden question. I think one reason is that they a lot of people in the Pentagon fully don't understand what this is. I think they come to the conclusion it ain't from here.

Tucker Carlson: Yeah.

Tom Rogan: But beyond that, they're somewhat flummox and --

Tucker Carlson: At least they have come to that conclusion.

Tom Rogan: Yes, yes. Yes. Confidently.

Tucker Carlson: They think this is extraterrestrial just to be totally blunt.

Tom Rogan: Or extra dimensional, something extra. Let's put it that way.

Tucker Carlson: It's not from this world.

Tom Rogan: Not from not from this world and not from Elon Musk. You know, some people say maybe it's some secret billionaire somewhere.

Tucker Carlson: Right.

Tom Rogan: It's too advanced. It's also quite extraordinary the degree to which when these things happen. Right. When we've seen a lot of, you know, some coverage, not as much as we would want to see on the Navy in particular, but the nuclear synergy, the nuclear identified that a guy, Robert Hastings, wrote a book about this 10, 15 years ago, which is at some point probably going to become a bestseller because it talks about these things actually deactivating in a couple of cases U.S. and Soviet ICBM's in the Cold War. So, whatever these things are intelligent machines. They're not ghosts blips on the radar. Also, their ability to move, you know, both through space air and hundreds of knots underwater in terms of friction.

Tucker Carlson: Nothing can go hundreds of knots.

Tom Rogan: Exactly exactly.

Tucker Carlson: I mean the whole thing, I say so we're out of time, unfortunately. We should have led the show with this, we should lead the show with this tomorrow and so should every other newscast.

Tom Rogan: Well its great you're covering it.

Tucker Carlson: But they're not.

Tom Rogan: It's great you're covering no one else does.

Tucker Carlson: We should be covering it more it's unbelievable.

Tom Rogan: It is.

Tucker Carlson: Thank you.

Tom Rogan: Thank you.

Tucker Carlson: See you Tom Rogan. We're out of time tonight we'll be back tomorrow night, 8 p.m. The show that is the sworn enemy of lying, pomposity, smugness and groupthink. Good night from Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, whether you like it or not.

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