This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 4, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Greg Gutfeld, Juan Williams, Lawrence Jones, and Katie Pavlich. It is 5:00 in New York City, and this is The Five. All right, right now, you are looking live at more mass protests underway over the death of George Floyd. And it was an emotional day for George Floyd's family with two memorial services being held, one in Minneapolis, the other in New York City.
Family, friends, political leaders, community members, all gathering to pay their respects, Steve Harrigan is on the ground in Minneapolis with the latest. Steve?
STEVE HARRIGAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Dana, there were about 1,000 people inside the hall here, many of them invited guests, friends and family, but several thousand more outside, and media really from around the world lining the sidewalks out in front. This has become an international story over the past 10 days. It was a real mix two (ph) of emotions.
At one point, it seemed like a funeral, at other points, it seemed like a political rally here. Probably the emotional high point came from the eulogy given by Reverend Al Sharpton who reminded the crowd that the last dying words of George Floyd was a call out to his mother. Reverend Sharpton said he was stunned to learn that George Floyd's mother had already passed away. Here is Reverend Sharpton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REVEREND AL SHARPTON: Quincy (ph) said, you know, I was thinking, maybe he was calling his mother, because at the point that he was dying his mother was stretching her hands out. Saying come on, George. I'll welcome you where the wicked will cease from traveling, where the weary will be at rest. There's a place where police don't put knees on you, George.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIGAN: The mood here in Minneapolis, too, has swung up and down. We saw four to five days of some heavy violence and fires. We saw the National Guard come in. And then recently, over the past 48 hours a real shift, a real calming, especially with the arrest of the other three officers who were involved in the arrest of George Floyd who made their first court appearance today.
And also the increase of the charge to second-degree murder, all four could face maximum prison terms now at this point of up to 40 years. This memorial, this funeral isn't over yet. It goes from here to North Carolina and then on to Houston for a burial on Monday, Dana, back to you.
PERINO: Steve Harrigan, thank you. And Laura Ingle joins us from Brooklyn, New York with the latest on the memorial and the protests there. Laura?
LAURA INGLE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Dana. Well, it was certainly a massive turn out here in Brooklyn to honor George Floyd. And, you know, this field here behind me was absolutely packed. Right now, we are hearing estimates of about 5,000 people who were here. There were people as far as you could see. I want you to take a look at some of that video that we shot earlier today.
It was here at Cadman Plaza Park. And again, city leaders, clergy, and family members spoke in front of this huge crowd. A somewhat awkward moment came, though, when New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio took the podium and was loudly booed. This after his wife, the city's first lady, asked the crowd to give him the same respect they gave her.
Instead, they continued to boo and chanted the word, resign. The crowd paid close attention, though, once George Floyd's brother, Terrence, took the stage, telling the gathering that he is proud of the protests he has seen, but he is not proud of the destruction. And he said that message twice to make his point. And he said it slow, adding that his brother was, quote, "not about that."
Once the service was over, the crowd moved together as one and marched across the Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan's Foley Square. Then, of course, what we are going to see her tonight are the protesters marching through the streets as we've seen go on all week. The curfew remains at 8:00 p.m. Last night, there were over 180 arrests, mostly people breaking curfew.
But we will have to see what happens again tonight. Last night, it was pouring, so there were maybe less people out on the street. There were some problems with the NYPD, mainly in the city. And of course, the incident we had here in Brooklyn where two police officers were shot, one stabbed but they're not sure. The NYPD is not sure if that was related to the George Floyd protests. So on we go, waiting for nightfall and what happens after 8:00 p.m. Dana?
PERINO: All right. Thank you, Laura. We appreciate it. We will take it around the virtual table here that we have during this Coronavirus time. Juan Williams, maybe get some first thoughts from you after the two memorials today.
JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, you know, Dana, I think that -- just picking up on what we heard from Steve Harrigan. I think there's been a shift towards an emphasis on the peaceful protests and a show that I took from the memorial service in Minneapolis of family values on two levels. On the first level, when you heard the family members speak, they spoke about a real human being, George Floyd, who died that horrible and cruel death.
But they emphasized his humanity that he was a kid who grew up in poverty. They said he used to wash clothes in the sink. Sometimes they didn't have detergent. They just used soap. They didn't have a dryer. Sometimes, they use the oven. They go over to grandma's if they needed something to eat. It was a human being. Another brother there spoke about, you know, the whole idea of now the world knows George Floyd.
And they know him as someone who is so real that they are increasingly showing love for him and the family. That family, the Floyd family is so grateful. He said for the love from the world family, the American family, the Minneapolis family. So, to me, it was on those levels, such an inspiring moment, I think, and such a -- I'm so grateful that we have moved back to the real reason that has spurred these protests.
Which is George Floyd and his terrible death, you know, Benjamin Crump put a point on it when he said what they're after, what they'd like to see come out of this in terms of, again, reaching out to the American family is just policing, just law enforcement from prosecutors, from judges. And I guess most of all, a sense, and this has really touched me.
That Ben Crump said this, the family lawyer that a poor black kid born to the least articulate mom would have an equal chance with a -- child born to the richest white mom, and that's the American creed, you know, equal opportunity.
PERINO: It's one that I would think, you know, 99.999 percent of Americans agree with, of course that is the ideals of our country. Lawrence Jones, you were there with us during the coverage of memorials. May be some reflections after you've had a chance to think about it for a little bit?
LAWRENCE JONES, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, you know, it was great witnessing the home-going ceremony because it kind of put my spirit at peace, you know? There's been a lot of chaos with this because this has become a national -- international story. And to see the family that was able to grieve and be respectful as well and say, you know, we want justice for our brother, our son, our brother, but we also want -- don't want our city to be destroyed as well.
This family, you know, typically when we have funerals or home-going ceremonies, it's not public. And they have to do it publicly. And we got to see his humanity, all the childhood stories, as Juan pointed to. But I'm glad that they've remained focused on the vision. And that's justice for Floyd, and other people that have similar experiences just like him.
PERINO: And Katie, I think that was one of the parts that I enjoyed listening to the most was the stories about him as a brother or as an uncle, as his young nephew said that he was -- you know, needed somebody like George Floyd in his life.
KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes. And to listen to his brother say how grateful he was that so many people wanted to be a part of his memorial service was, you know, something that everybody can relate to. Of course, you want people to remember the ones that you love so much, especially under these circumstances. The announcement of the scholarship fund was also a good thing for moving forward.
But I have to say if we're going to talk about unity and trying to build bridges. I'm not sure that Al Sharpton was the best choice, considering his long career of sowing division in this country and burning bridges down rather than building them up. And so, he's the one who made it political, unfortunately. He attacked the president, even though the president is the one who called for the FBI and DOJ to look into this.
He has from the beginning said that we don't want these communities to be burned down by rioters. We want people to protest. And we want the family to have justice. So it was great to listen to the family members talk about who George Floyd was. But if we're going to talk about unity moving forward and how to heal from this situation, I'm not sure that Al Sharpton is the one to lead the way.
PERINO: Let's talk about moving forward indeed, Greg, maybe some final thoughts here.
GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, I don't want to take anything away from this. What is a very touching and meaningful and emotional event, but it was weird. I was watching the thousands and thousands of people, and a thought of contrast popped into my head, which is I started remembering all the black people and the white people, all the people who haven't had any funerals because of the Coronavirus, right?
So there've been thousands of families that have not been able to put their loved ones to death. And we have this amazing kind of event for one man. And I want to make two other points. You know, God bless George Floyd, his brother, for making that very important distinction between protests and violence. You can't say that enough.
And good for him to get up there and say that. But I do think for the open- minded, you've got to take this memorial service in good faith as a reflection of a society, in which everyone is in agreement on the human condition, right? Does the racist society that devotes this kind of reverence and attention to the death of a previously unknown black man?
Does a racist society spend 10 days in rage over the death of an unknown black man? Does a racist society encourage more protests all over the country, even though we know there might be violence? Does a racist society involve millions of people asking the angry what can we do better? And the answer is that is not a racist society, not even close.
PERINO: Indeed. Not a racist society at all, coming up, are Democratic leaders making excuses for looting? Greg will explain all of that next.
GUTFELD: All right. Here I am. As New York City burn, here's what Governor Andy Cuomo said on Tuesday on Twitter. There are those who want to intentionally blur the lines between peaceful, legitimate protesters and looters. The president is among them. They want you to watch the videos of the looting, not the video of Mr. Floyd being murdered. Don't fall for it.
So a governor whose citizens and taxpayers are under attack claims the biggest problem is witnessing the attack, the mayhem, the looting, attacks on cops, because that blurs the lines between peaceful protests and looters. I suppose he would prefer you watch this over and over again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was the actual swab that was being used to fit up that double barrel shotgun that you have mounted on the front of your pretty face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: I will never get tired of that. So who is blurring the lines between protesters and looters? It's not me. It's people like him. Because every time you mention the rioters, they accuse you of smearing protesters. We do understand the difference. Does he? Do you remember when you condemned the actions of Jihadists and suddenly they accuse you of Islamophobia?
That when you criticize beheadings that was the same as calling all Muslims extremists. That idiotic response revealed who does the blurring. And it's that blurring that hurts the protest movement. But by exposing the violent mob, you protect the future of legitimate protest. Not doing it forever links into destruction and death, while saying or implying that black grievance only matters if it's expressed violently. That's nuts.
If that's what you're saying, Andy, you're the one sowing discord. You're the one who left us hanging, sacrificing citizens to the mob just so we don't blur any of your precious lines. Lawrence, go back to the -- I didn't -- in the A-block. I wasn't aware the victim's brother coming out and basically saying exactly the point.
And the thing is I think both sides of this debate agree that conflating protests in rioting is wrong. We just want both sides to identify them as different, and then we'd be happy.
JONES: Or just go and pick up the bad guys so we can have a peaceful protest. Like, just go pick them up. I mean, as I'm walking home from the studio, I see them just lollygagging in my neighborhood. And I just don't understand. Why didn't they pick them up? I mean, Antifa just lurking in the street. But I do have a message, because, you know today is the day we are reflecting on George Floyd and the memory that he had.
And there's been a lot of talk about his past. And you know, George Floyd was -- he had a past, but guess what? In America, and as a believer, this is a place for redemption. And he turned his life around. And he worked hard. And he decided that he was going to do community groups with people and bible studies. That's what we want to remember.
And so I said that all to say -- the protesters and the looters, the protesters are doing it the right way. But the looters, you've got to ultimately pick a side. George Floyd picked a side. And he decided to turn his life around. You can do the same. Like, there is no reason to destroy your entire community. There is no reason to do that.
That doesn't bring him honor. The family has said it does not bring him honor. Look at his past videos. He doesn't like that. So at this point, you're doing it for yourself.
GUTFELD: Yes. You know Juan, one thing that I noticed that I find funny is that the black members of the protest movement are sickened by the rioters and the agitators. But it's the white liberals in the activist groups who are careful to virtue signal and not actually say anything about the rioting and looting. It's the blacks in the protest movie -- movement who understand the danger of the rioting more than anybody else, like Mr. Floyd's brother.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, look. I don't think it is -- you know, I think you often talk about the prison of two ideas. So let's get out of the two ideas because to me it's not a zero-sum game, right? To me, you can condemn the looting as criminal activity. But you can also condemn what happened in terms of that awful, torturous murder of George Floyd.
So looting and rioting, you say, it's just black people. Let me just say the facts -- I say this as someone who studied the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, which provided such tremendous social change for our country that it was a non-violent social protest movement. A lot of times, the violence came from the government or from white supremacists.
It didn't come from the protesters. And they achieved real, solid change. And so I would say to all of the country at this moment that building coalitions for change, persuading people of the goodness of your cause is about peaceful protests. That's why I'm so pleased to see that we have had so much more peaceful protests in the last few days.
One last thing, Greg, I just wanted to disagree with you what you have said about this society. I wanted to just quote something I read today from Condi Rice, a strong Republican, someone we all know, who said this society is not color-blind and probably never will be. And until we are honest that race is an anchor around our country's neck, that shadow will never be lifted.
GUTFELD: Well, thank you for that, Juan. And you're dead wrong about what I said. I didn't say it was just black people. You took what I said incorrectly, and that was really bad. I said it is black people who are upset at the rioting. I didn't say it was just black people rioting. And I wish you wouldn't have said that.
WILLIAMS: I didn't say that.
GUTFELD: You said --
WILLIAMS: That's not what I said.
GUTFELD: All right, well, I heard I it.
WILLIAMS: I said it's not just black people who are upset at the rioting, Greg.
GUTFELD: No. I didn't hear it that way. Well, if you said it that way, I apologize. But this is a show in which people can get things right most of the time and sometimes I get things wrong, which is rare, Juan. It is rare that I get things wrong.
PERINO: Very rare, very rare.
WILLIAMS: Very rare, very rare.
GUTFELD: Dana? So Juan brings up the Condi Rice quote, which I find interesting, because no one is denying that racist exists. I am denying that it's a racist society. That can exist simultaneously.
PERINO: Yes. And I think one of the things that Condi Rice also has said in the past that always stuck with me is that America was born with a birth defect. And we've been dealing with that birth defect for a long time. And obviously, we've -- there was a nation that fought -- our nation fought a war over it. And I think what you're saying is also you -- there is opportunity here for all of us to believe in the American ideal, because America is not a country where we are just sharing bloodlines.
We came together because of ideas. And that's what holds us together, right? That's the fabric. That's the glue. So you can't let anybody try to take that away from us as a nation. So when foreign nations -- like Bill Barr said today, the foreign nations have been trying to use this to create more tension within our country. Ignore them.
Do not worry about what other nations are thinking. And when it comes to Antifa, for example, you know, Henry Rogers over at the Daily Caller called every single Democratic senator's office today asked for some sort of condemnation, got none. There is none. So maybe they aren't blurring the lines. Maybe have -- they maybe have drawn a very clear line.
GUTFELD: Yes. Katie, what are your thoughts?
PAVLICH: Yes. Well, Greg, I want to get back to your point about blurring the lines between the protesters and the rioters. And a lot of it has to do with these Democrats who are in charge, not wanting to take responsibility for what has gone on, whether it's Bill De Blasio, Governor Cuomo, the mayor of D.C. And also, when you blur those two lines, you actually do a disservice to the very people you say and claim you are standing up for and protecting.
So for example, the black woman in the Bronx who lost her store to looters, who said I am black. My black life matters. And now my store, which I partially own and work for, has been destroyed. And the jobs of the people who work here have been destroyed. What about the black officers who have been killed as a result of these riots?
And so there needs to be a distinction between the two for the sake of accountability and preventing the very communities that are impacted the most by this from being hurt further by a group that has completely hijacked the narrative and the cause on this. And if you want people to take this seriously, you want people to move forward with unity.
You have to make the distinctions, so people know that the two groups are not mixed, or they are going to see them as one. And according to a lot of people on the ground, that's not what's happening here.
GUTFELD: All right. Before we come back, I'm going to look at the tape of me. And Juan, and if he's wrong, I am t-ping is a house. I'm very good at t-ping houses, Juan. Trust me. I have a lot of toilet paper.
PERINO: Do not waste TP. There's a shortage. There's a shortage.
GUTFELD: I know. I know. But I'm -- I've been saving it up for his house, yes. All right, up next, the left ramping up calls to de-fund the police as they come under attack.
PAVLICH: Well, the left not just calling for criminal justice reform, they now want to defund the police. It comes after two NYPD officers were shot and another was stabbed last night while protecting against looting. This new push gaining support across the country, including from former Hillary Clinton campaign press secretary Brian Fallon. But is it warranted? Tucker Carlson challenging the narrative. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: Is our nation being ripped apart by a total and complete lie, a provable lie? Last year, the Post logged a total of 1,004 killings. Of the 802 shootings in which the race of the police officer and the suspect was noted, 371 of those killed were white, 236 were black. The vast majority were armed.
Overall, there were a total of precisely 10 cases in the United States last year, according to The Washington Post, in which unarmed African Americans were fatally shot by the police. In two of those cases, in fully half, the officer was criminally charged. Is it possible that more of these officers should have been charged?
Of course, it's possible. Justice is not always served. That's for sure. But either way, this is a very small number in a country of 325 million people. This is not genocide. It's not even close to genocide. It is laughable to suggest it is. In fact, the number of police killings is dropping. No American should ever be mistreated by those in authority, much less killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLICH: So Lawrence, is there a danger here in this narrative that all police should be defunded because as we know, when policing stops in crime- ridden communities, the people who suffer the most are those who have no defense against the criminals?
LAWRENCE JONES, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: So, let me push back a little bit because I think this so often happens when we're having these debates. And this is all centered around the one-term systematic racism, so let's talk about this a little bit. Because we aren't on the ground, and I mean, Republicans on the ground, we talked about this a little bit on the show, we are always on defense when it comes to the issues that the left talks about the black community.
So, for example, the issue is not just police shooting, it's about, you know, what happens on the ground in the police department. So, with the Ferguson report, you saw that it was government in there, and they were literally policing for profit. When you look at Minneapolis, you see in the police department where there -- the stops in the use of force, that when it comes to black Americans, it's a big problem there.
So instead of people on the right say, you know what, this is our plan. Like for example, get rid of the unions and put our policies in there. When people say systematic racism, when it comes to the education system, instead of being on the ground and say, you know what, here school choice, people should not have to go to failing schools just because they live in the zip code.
When people say that it's not safe in our community, instead of going into the community, like my story does, a Republican and says, you know what, this is how you defend yourself. These are your rights. There's an answer for every single thing. But because conservatives on a local level -- I'm not talking about the President's national policy, all right -- local levels, how you get things done, we never have a response. So, we go back and forth on who's a bigger racist and who's not.
PAVLICH: Yes. Greg, your thoughts on the defund the police movement?
GUTFELD: There's -- obviously that's bigger than it being about structural racism. It's a radical agenda meant to dismantle society because once you remove the police, there are no protections at all, even for minority neighborhoods. And the police exist to protect us from ourselves, right? Without them, you have Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.
But you got -- the thing that damages a lot of these arguments is statistics. You know, white officers, according to one study are less likely to shoot non-white people than non-white officers shooting non-white suspects. I hope I got that right. White officers are less likely to shoot non-white than non-white shoot non-white.
So, if the police is structurally racist, it's intramurally racist. So that's not a black problem, it's our problem, right? It is a small number, but the fact that like non-white officers are more likely to shoot non- white suspects than white suspect, that that kind of destroys the racial narrative.
Meanwhile, a police officer was what 18 1/2 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a cop. And that is not saying that the latter is just -- is like not a big deal because it is. But there's a lot of -- once you get into these statistics, if I could pronounce that word, what you find is that the emotions are real but untethered to some very -- some very uncomfortable facts that we wish to ignore.
PAVLICH: You know -- yes. You know, Dana, I went down to Washington D.C. downtown yesterday just to take a look at what was going on and see with my own eyes what was happening. There were lots of protesters there laying in the streets, and there were lots of police there who were black police officers. So, the question is, well, does defunding the police also apply to them?
PERINO: Well, apparently. I mean, he didn't leave any room for nuance. It just says defund the police. And Republicans should be so lucky if the Progressives and the Democrats want to pick this up as their mantle and make hashtag defund the police their election motto going into 2020.
But I do think there is a room here for some compromise and maybe even some bipartisan agreement. Because I've been learning a little bit more about concerns from both sides of the aisle about police unions. So that might be something that -- where you could find some agreement and you could look like -- you know, when you -- when you say you want to do something specific and justice for George Floyd for his death to have meant something for change, that might be it.
The other thing I would point out to everybody, but maybe specifically to the left, is if you really care about refugees who are desperate to come into America, what's the number one reason they want to come to America? It's not just because they think they'll get a job. It's because they are fleeing the violence in their own countries where the police and the government cannot protect them.
That's why they want to come here because if you have safety and opportunity, then you can achieve something.
PAVLICH: Yes. Juan, doesn't there have to be some kind of balance between police accountability, police are armed agents of the government, they should be held accountable for bad behavior, but also not going so far as to put communities that need policing in jeopardy for future crime?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I think this is a bad idea, defund the police. I don't know exactly. You know, to me, it's poor communities that need higher levels of attention, engagement from the police to produce good policing to make people feel safe in their homes and in terms of their stores, property and the rest. So I think that in fact, you just need good police.
Now, if they're talking about doing away with like, you know, some of the delivery of tanks and military equipment after wars, that I think they could definitely do away with. I just wanted to speak for a second to the idea of these statistics, because it's clear from the statistics that I see that half of the people who die from police shootings are white. But remember, blacks are only 13 percent of the population. And according to these numbers, black people are killed at twice a rate of white people by police. And in fact, it's not only that, it's they're twice as likely to be unarmed.
So again, to come back to Lawrence's point, I think there's more engagement, and it's not always of a positive nature. It leaves people feeling like the police might be an occupying force, and we don't want that.
GUTFELD: You know, I just want to tack on to Juan's statistic which is if people could go and check this, I believe you're looking at population and you're not looking at police encounters. And there might be a change in the statistics on that, but that's for later.
PAVLICH: That is -- I believe Greg is correct, but we will look it up. All right, moving along. Joe Biden's search for a running mate getting derailed. We'll tell you why up next.
WILLIAMS: Joe Biden's search for a running mate is well underway but it's running into some roadblocks. Top contenders Amy Klobuchar, Val Demings and Kamala Harris facing new scrutiny over their backgrounds in law enforcement.
Dana, a lot of this comes down to criminal justice, even the criminal justice bill that Joe Biden was involved with in the mid-90s. But, again, if you look back, the Congressional Black Caucus, black mayors, members of city count, they all supported it. So, what do you make of this?
PERINO: Yes. Well, I think that the black community is probably less worried about the crime bill than some people like the progressive left seem to be much more exercised about it. But this is -- what's interesting is that Joe Biden's vice-presidential choice is going to have to go through a purity test that he actually didn't have to go through in the primary.
So that is probably true before Floyd's murder, but it's definitely true now. And I think that somebody like Amy Klobuchar, the Senator from Minnesota, she tried to get out ahead yesterday, and to make that announcement before the Attorney General of Minnesota about the additional charges against the officers.
But I think when you have James Clyburn saying that he thinks her chances are toast, she's dunzo. Kamala Harris again, that was -- that was even a problem for her going back to her primary. I'm going to submit to you that there might be another woman in play. I think that Tammy Duckworth, the senator, is a real possibility for the vice-presidential pick.
WILLIAMS: Lawrence, the unintended consequences of having been in law enforcement, three strikes and your out penalties for nonviolent drug crimes. What do you make of this?
JONES: No, they knew what they were doing. I mean, I went after the Republicans for not showing up in the community, but the people that are currently in leadership don't care. I mean, they were following these laws and aggressive measures while they were elected, and all of a sudden now that they want to be on the national stage, they forgotten the policies that they stand for.
I'm glad everybody's talking about are getting rid of the police unions, but do you know who they endorsed in these local races and in these attorney general races, a lot of Democrats. So again, they got to decide what candidate they want. But all of this shifting the blame and saying that they were once for the community is not going to work, especially for those Bernie Sanders, young Democrats.
WILLIAMS: That's a good point. Greg, I'm going to flip on you here and say I think they did a good job as prosecutors and as a police chief.
JONES: Oh, please.
GUTFELD: Who did -- I'm sorry, somebody went into my ear. I missed your question. I'm not joking.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no, I said --
GUTFELD: I missed the question.
WILLIAMS: OK. I said, I thought -- I said, in fact, you could argue that Val Demings as a police chief, Klobuchar, Harris as prosecutors did a good job for their communities in terms of protecting them.
GUTFELD: I don't know though. I think they're bad choices. I think that you know, because Joe is trying to do a progressive makeover, I have three suggestions, OK. Number one, Bill Ayers. He's available he tried to bomb a military installation. You know, you could get some real street cred with that. Mumia Abu-Jamal is still in jail for the murder of an officer Daniel Faulkner. That's going to get your street cred if you pick him. Then there's Joanne Chesimard. She killed a New Jersey State Trooper named Werner Foerster. She's -- it is claimed that she is dead in Cuba, but I doubt that. I think that's a -- that's a false front.
I'm just saying that if Joe really wants the job and wants to get the progressives to drop on their knees for him, he'll say anything. He has no spine.
WILLIAMS: Katie, you're a political pro. Who's your pick for the vice- presidential slot?
PAVLICH: Oh, I think Dana is spot on with Tammy Duckworth being a potential candidate. But Joe Biden is really backed himself into a corner here because he initially said off the cuff during that debate, I believe it was, that he was going to pick a woman. And now because he's had a few gaffes when it comes to race relations, he now has backed himself into another corner where he has to go even further left. But if he does that with the vice-presidential nominee, he again destroys this idea that he is someone that independence can depend on to be more moderate and not as far left as the Democratic Party has become. So that is an issue for him.
And when it comes to the law and order and the policing part of this, you could make a good point, Juan, about the groups that supported the 1994 crime bill, the prosecutors that were on board with this, but nobody has really explained why they supported it. They support it because murder was out of control, violent crime is out of control, and that's all been cut in half as a result of much of this. And are there parts that can be reformed, of course, but Joe Biden has an a very, very poor job of explaining why that was something that the majority of Democrats and the African American community supported at the time.
WILLIAMS: Well, Katie, I agree with you. Coming up, NFL star quarterback Drew Brees sparking outrage and apologizing after saying anthem protest disrespected the flag. Next on THE FIVE.
JONES: NFL star Drew Brees apologizing after facing intense backlash for saying he doesn't agree with players who chose to kneel during the national anthem. Watch. Oh, no time for it. OK, Dana. thoughts on this?
PERINO: I know that we don't have a lot of time. I would say -- here's the thing. I wish that he didn't apologize. I mean, he can do whatever he wants. He has the right to his opinion about not kneeling during the anthem. He has a right to apologize if he wants to.
I just think that his teammates doing this, you know, rather than going to him personally, doing it by video and social media -- social media, it just feels like it's ruined so much in terms of honesty. Like, we say that we want to respect our country. The First Amendment is first for a reason. It's the most important one. And he really put his money where his mouth was. He has donated millions after Hurricane Katrina. He has dedicated his time and energy to that community, and I think he deserved better than what he got.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think he has the right to his opinion, but he misses the power of sports to influence culture and society, Jesse Owens victory over the Nazis. You think about something like Jackie Robinson, he's a key player in our civil rights movement in this country. I wish more people would focus on the real issue, the cause for protests, rather than the manner of the protest.
JONES: Greg, is this council culture. Because when LeBron says something, then the right goes after him, Drew Brees says something then, you know, the left goes after him.
GUTFELD: Well, according to LeBron James, you can offend the United States and its citizens, but not China. Because it's about money, it's not about patriotism or loyalty. And according to CNN, you know, we always thought that the autocrat aim to take away our rights would come from the right or come from evil orange man, Trump. It's the left that is in -- that demands lockstep in speech. They're so insecure in their ideas that they demand no obstacles or no other opinions. Well, that'd be fun to try that in sports, where like, there's only one team.
PAVLICH: I like what Drew Brees said about respecting the American flag and I wish he wouldn't apologize for it.
JONES: All right. All right, "ONE MORE THING" is up next. More on THE FIVE.
PERINO: All right, it's time now for a mini "ONE MORE THING." Juan?
WILLIAMS: All right, a lot of people, Dana, are wondering how to make sense of this puzzling moment in race relations in America, so let me suggest some books. Beginning with fiction, I'd say take a look at Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison and Native Son by Richard Wright. Second, an essay, The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin.
In the same spirit, I'd suggest you take a look at Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In The Cafeteria by Beverly Tatum. Then I'd suggest some biographies Bearing The Cross, David Garrow, Party In The Waters, Taylor Branch. I throw in my Biography, Thurgood Marshall American Revolutionary. Americans knowing more about each other is the surest path to keeping America beautiful.
PERINO: A lot of reading assignments but those are all excellent books and good choices. Greg?
GUTFELD: He didn't even add Greg Gutfeld's The Joy Of Hate, and I am offended. All right. Minneapolis firefighter -- Minneapolis firefighter K.B. Balla had hoped to open a sports bar after the coronavirus restrictions lifted, but his life's work was destroyed during the looting and fires that swept through this city.
A GoFundMe was set up to raise the funds to build the black firefighters bar where goals were exceeded with over $1.1 million raised to help him rebuild. 55,000 donors from across this country have also given more than 4.6 million to help small businesses in Minneapolis as Lake Street rebuild.
JONES: Pretty good. Yes.
PERINO: Hey, maybe THE FIVE should take a road trip up there when it's all set up.
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