Former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia on Khashoggi case

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Former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia on Khashoggi case

Growing diplomatic crisis as Trump administration awaits results of Khashoggi investigation; Robert Jordan provides insight on 'The Story.'

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," October 18, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: All right, folks, we've got 18 days now until the midterm elections, and immigration and the question of our poorest southern border getting very hot right now.

Thousands of migrants are heading to the U.S. The president telling Mexico that they better stop them or turn them back, or else he will send in the National Guard, he says, to shut down the border.

Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum, and this is "The Story" tonight. Also this evening, Dianne Feinstein with a warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you then be in favor or opposed to your colleagues who would -- who would want to open up the investigation of allegations against Brett Kavanaugh?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN, D-CALIF., SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Oh, I'd be in favor of opening up the allegations, absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Here we go. So, Newt Gingrich says that these issues will fire voters up in his party. Is he right?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: I think two words are going to define the night of 2018 election in the next three weeks. One is Kavanaugh, and the other is caravan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, we begin with the mounting tension at the border tonight.  Trace Gallagher, following it live from our West Coast Newsroom for us tonight. Hi, Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Martha. The caravan is roughly 4,000 people. Mostly Honduran, some Salvadorans making the way through Guatemala. And at last check, they were about 150 miles from Mexico's Southern border.

But several hundred caravan members have broken away. Either getting on buses or hitching rides and have arrived at the Mexico border though it is unclear if they'll try to enter Mexico alone or wait for the mass crossing.

Mexican police and military are there waiting for the migrants, and the Mexican government has said anyone without a passport, visa or other documents will be turned away or detained. But those on the grounds say, few if any of these migrants have documents, which indicates it could be a standoff. Except, all that separates Guatemala from Mexico are two bridges and a river.

Mexico is not going to harm these people, and historically, Mexico has shown little ability to stop migrants from crossing. So, experts say, by Friday, a lot of this caravan could be in Mexico about 1,800 miles from the U.S. border.

Though, we should note that our chief White House correspondent John Roberts just put into urgent that Mexico and the United States have come to terms saying, that they will try to put more shelters along the Central American Mexico border. And that now, Mexico will allow people who actually make it into the United States to turn back and come into Mexico.  Those are both new.

Now, the president has issued a buck stops here tweet saying, and I'm quoting, "I must in the strongest of terms ask Mexico to stop this onslaught, and if unable to do so, I will call up the U.S. military and close our southern border."

The president, said another tweet blaming Democrats for what he calls an assault on our country. And clearly, this has become a hot political issue. With Congressman Mike McCaul, chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, saying, "We have to secure that border once and for all."

And while there's a huge focus on this 4,000 person caravan, the Border Patrol says, 4,000 migrants, cross into the U.S. every four days. And because of the current political climate, here is what happens to migrants with children. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN KALLINGER, SPOKESMAN, BORDER PATROL: We have to basically let them go outside our front door or we transport them to two places where they can get shelter and they can get help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: All right, these families are not sneaking across, they want to get caught because they know they will not be detained. So, even if President Trump sends the military to the border, history shows many of the people in this caravan are likely to be on U.S. soil very near the midterms. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes. In fact, there are 13,000 children who crossed the border basically on their own -- you know, pushed across, led in that direction by other people, and we're basically taking care of all of them. So, it is a huge problem.

Joining me now -- thank you to Trace. Joining me now, Charlie Hurt, opinion editor at The Washington Times, and a Fox News contributor. Adele Malpass, Real Clear Politics national reporter. And Robert Zimmerman, DNC committee chair member.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, COMMITTEE MEMBER, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE:  Good to see all of you tonight.

CHARLES HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you.

MACCALLUM: Charlie, let me start with you. You know, with regard to the bigger issue of the border, and what goes through voter's minds as they watch this caravan moving towards the United States, and they hear those numbers.

In fact, the numbers are increasing of people -- of adults now who bring a child with them, when they come across the border because they know that if they have a child with them, they will be allowed in.

HURT: Which, of course, leads to a whole another problem that nobody on any side of this debate wants, which is the trafficking of children. And there are many, many documented cases where that is happening.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely. Exactly for those reasons that you just said. You know, it's -- this is not -- this is not a good issue for -- I know that -- you know, earlier in the year with the so-called separations and all that kind of stuff, that was -- that was a boon for Democrats, they thought that was a rallying cry.

But this issue, the one thing that unites everybody on this issue is that we have to stop the problem. And there are complex parts of it, and there are -- and it's not -- obviously, it's not easy because these people in Congress haven't been able to do it in decades, neither party has done it.

But, the idea -- you know, the issue of do we have a secure border or do we leave it wide open?

MACCALLUM: Right.

HURT: So, that the problem continues. That's a no-brainer and that's like an 80-20 issue.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It -- and it is an 80-20 issue. And you know what, we have some of the places where it's a very hot issue. Robert Zimmerman are in the suburbs across America.

ZIMMERMAN: Sure.

MACCALLUM: Where even -- you know, people who may not be thrilled with President Trump -- you know, when they -- when they're asked, do you believe we need to have a secure border? They say, yes.

So, when they walk into the voting booth, these issues are going to be on their mind. And Democrats may lose some of them with this kind of images.

ZIMMERMAN: Actually, actually, not. Because Democrats have been advocating border security for decades. In fact, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are advocating increased fund for border security.

MACCALLUM: But no wall.

ZIMMERMAN: But with this -- but frankly, Republicans are not advocating a war, Martha -- a wall Martha. And the reason for that, and the reason you don't see Republicans defending Trump's policy of separating children from their families, and the reason you see this caravan take place is because the Trump immigration policies and border security policy have been abject failure.

Republicans don't want to support this wall because they know it's a waste of money and that's not going to work. The Republicans aren't campaigning, supporting the Trump policy of separating children from their families because it's immoral, international -- this national tragedy for us to be part of that.

MACCALLUM: All right.

ZIMMERMAN: And so, that's why this issue of border security is going to work for Democrats advantage.

MACCALLUM: Well, we'll see.

ZIMMERMAN: Because, because the Trump administration has failed in their effort.

MACCALLUM: Take a look at this Fox News poll. You heard Newt Gingrich talk about Kavanaugh and the caravan. People are very split on the -- on the question of Kavanaugh and the SCOTUS confirmation. 47 approve it, 48 disapprove it, and Dianne Feinstein as we showed a moment ago in a debate says she would absolutely favor reopening the Kavanaugh investigation next year.

Adele, your thoughts on that as we take a look at the possibility of a lot of new investigations around the pipeline if indeed Democrats take the House.

ADELE MALPASS, NATIONAL REPORTER, REAL CLEAR POLITICS: One of the things we've seen with the post-Kavanaugh hearing is that independent voters are starting to decide and they are -- men are start -- particularly, independent men are starting to fall towards the GOP. And they overplayed their hand. And so, you're seen as people are deciding.

And one thing with independent voters is that's often on you don't hear about is that Donald Trump won independent voters, 46 to 42 percent. And they are essential for swing -- in swing districts for -- to capture independent vote.

MACCALLUM: Absolutely.

MALPASS: And so, when you look at the battleground states where Donald Trump won, if he would overwhelmingly won the independent vote in Michigan, it was by 16 points, Wisconsin 13 points.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

MALPASS: So, independent voters are very important. And both of these issues play into that.

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: And where are they today? Where are they today, Adele?

MACCALLUM: Well, that's the question.

ZIMMERMAN: Where are they today?

MACCALLUM: Where -- I don't think we know where they are.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, according to The Post, the gender gap is 2-1 in favor of Democrats.

MALPASS: All right, you know, one of the untold things is that when it comes to the gender gap is that, really, 52 percent of white women voted for Donald Trump, it was 52 to 43. And so, the Democrat narrative it likes to be that -- you know, women don't support Donald Trump, which is particularly suburban women supported Donald Trump, as well. And so --

(CROSSTALK)

ZIMMERMAN: That's right. But now we're in the midterm, it's a very different dynamic and the polls reflect one issue. But the other point is this, I'm very proud of Dianne Feinstein for advocating reopening that investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

MALPASS: And independent voters --

ZIMMERMAN: And I think she speaks to many Americans who want to see an accountability here around whether in fact, sexual harassment, sexual abuse took place and the idea of respecting survivors.

MACCALLUM: All right, I want to just play --

(CROSSTALK)

MALPASS: I don't -- I don't think voter --

MACCALLUM: I want to get in one more topic before I let you guys go because there's a lot here. Wall Street Journal editorial today, I thought made a really interesting point about the fact that the World Economic Forum has named the United States the number one most competitive country as far as positive environment for business. You've got 7 million jobs open in this country.

They write that we've likely avoided the recession that would have happened. They believed at The Wall Street Journal editorial page that if Hillary Clinton had won, U.S. growth is driving the world economy.

And they say, "The question that is too much below the surface for next month's election is whether Americans want to continue this prosperity."  And they point out, Robert, that it won't -- it's not necessarily guaranteed, because -- you know, we've seen in the past that Democrats Nancy Pelosi -- you know, put through a short-term stimulus program under George Bush.

That you can have a Republican president and Democratic economic policies that may not work as well as the ones that we have in place now. It is not top of mind, and top of discussion for a lot of people who are looking at these issues.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, you know, it's very -- it's very revealing that, in fact, despite the fact, we have a strong economy, and President Trump has continued the Obama economic recovery. The reality is, President Obama's approval ratings are a record low for a midterm president. So I think it's --

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: President Trump, you mean, I see.

ZIMMERMAN: President Trump, rather is a record low for midterm President, Obama didn't do so well either. But the point simply is here, you don't see Republicans campaigning on the tax cut because they know it's a known - - it's a non-starter with the voters, and the deficit, of course, is the highest since World War II.

MACCALLUM: Quick thought, Charlie. (INAUDIBLE) going to go.

(CROSSTALK)

MALPASS: You can't -- you cannot --

MACCALLUM: So, sorry.

HURT: Yet, no. It just kind of all that is sort of amazing. You know, when you take a look at the -- for example, the confirm or none confirm, a poll for Brett for Brett Kavanaugh, anybody who's had this much thrown at the guy, of course, there's going to be a high disapproval rate for a nominee to the Supreme Court.

The second thing is -- you know, for you to catch -- for you to claim that Democrats are all in favor of border security, Democrats are the party of sanctuary cities. So, if you're the party of sanctuary cities, you can't be in favor of a border.

MACCALLUM: All right. I'm going to give Adele the last word here. Go ahead, Adele. Real quick.

ZIMMERMAN: How many seconds? OK.

MALPASS: We need to stay, it cannot be called -- it cannot be called the Obama recovery because he was trying to convince voters that it was the new normal to have only two percent growth. Come October 26, next Friday, 12 days before the election, third quarter GDP is expected out.

Many think it will be again, of the second quarter in a row where we have four percent or higher growth, people want this. It is results and President Trump should do a victory lap on that comes out.

MACCALLUM: Thank, we will see. Thank you, guys.

ZIMMERMAN: But don't -- OK.

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

ZIMMERMAN: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: We will have you all back. Thank you very much. Good to see you tonight. So coming up next, breaking news from the White House on the disappearance of the journalists in Turkey.

And later, are Democrats about to stage an intervention on Hillary Clinton?  New York Times piece tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe Jamal Khashoggi is dead?

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It certainly looks that way to me. We're waiting for the results of about three different investigations that we should be able to get to the bottom fairly soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you considering for possible consequences for Saudi?

TRUMP: Well, it'll have to be very severe. I mean, it's bad, bad stuff, but we'll see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We'll see what happens. That seems to be the Trump administration's mantra tonight despite mounting pressure to take action in the disappearance and presumed murder of journalist Jamaal Khashoggi.  Former U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Robert Jordan says the President is "walking a tightrope on the world stage with these comments. He joins me in just a moment. But first Benjamin Hall live in Istanbul with the late- breaking developments tonight. Good evening, Ben.

BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Martha. For a couple of days now, the White House has been saying wait until we hear this out the investigation, the results of that. Well, finally that Saudi investigation seems to be picking up speed after two weeks in which the Turkish authorities have controlled the narrative.  Well, today Secretary Pompeo referenced that investigation and he urged patience again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE POMPEO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: They also assured me that they will conduct a complete, thorough investigation of all of the facts surrounding Mr. Khashoggi and that they will do so in a timely fashion.  And the best-reported side will be transparent for everyone to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALL: But evidence continues to mount against the Saudis. There is now growing focus on one man claimed to be Saudi intelligence. His name is (INAUDIBLE) and he has been pictured in the entourage of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. And new CCTV stills released by Turkey put him at the consulate the day of Khashoggi disappearance apparently entering shortly before Khashoggi leaving soon after. This mounting evidence has led Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to finally announce that he will skip a major investment conference in Saudi Arabia later this week following other prominent politicians and business leaders who have also pulled out. It is being seen as the first rebuke of the Kingdom by the Trump administration.

As for the Saudi investigation, well, details still remain slim but it's claimed by Saudi Arabia that all of the suspects in the case have now been interrogated in Saudi Arabia. And sources say that one suspect was actually visiting New York the day Khashoggi disappeared while the other claims that he -- that one of them died a couple of years ago. So holes apparently in the story. And one other name now cropping up is General Ahmed al-Assiri. He's a two-star general who's a vice president of Saudi intelligence. There are now reports that he may have been the man who ordered the interrogation of Khashoggi. And of course that would fit into the narrative of Saudi Arabia that we've been expecting for a while that this was an interrogation got wrong, may have been sanctioned by Mohammed bin Salman but it wasn't intended to end in murder.

And of course, we heard President Trump earlier today saying that anyone found responsible would face severe consequences. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Ben Hall, thank you very much. My next guest served as the United States Ambassador to Saudi Arabia under President George W Bush taking that post in the months that followed September 11. Ambassador Robert Jordan joins me now. Sir, thank you very much for being here. You dealt with King Salman directly right after 9/11 and he was not all that forthcoming back then was he?

ROBERT JORDAN, FORMER UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO SAUDI ARABIA: No that's exactly right, Martha. Right after I arrived I went to see him when he was Governor of Riyadh and I asked him how could it be the 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis? And his response was there were no Saudis involved in 9/11 at all. This was an Israeli plot, the Mossad did this. And I really couldn't believe what I was hearing. I got the same response from the Minister of Interior and it really wasn't until I talked with Prince Saud, the Foreign Minister that I got someone who was willing to admit that there were Saud is involved.

So this is the same print Salman who is now the king and I think we've got to be very careful about taking at face about you anything he says.

MACCALLUM: What do you think of the man, his son known as MBS? Should he be in power there and will -- do we really have any say over any of it? I don't think we do.

JORDAN: I think we have opinions that can be expressed but it's certainly a matter of Saudi sovereignty which we have to respect. I would say this though. During his last two years, he has presided over one disaster after another. We've seen this terrible war in Yemen that has been a humanitarian catastrophe with no real success on the part of the Saudis and Emiratis. We have seen the kidnapping of the prime minister of Lebanon.  We have seen detention of peaceful protesters. We have seen this blockade of Qatar which appears to have completely fractured the Gulf Cooperation Council.

And now we have this horrible murder of Jamal Khashoggi. So a person with that track record couldn't get a job in most administration's and I would think a promotion for him right now would not be warranted.

MACCALLUM: Jeff Bezos -- you know this is a Washington Post Columnist that this horrific murder is believed to have been carried out on. He has not said a public word about this. He, as well as a lot of people in Silicon Valley, have deep business ties to the Middle East that complicate all of this. What do you make of his silence on this issue?

JORDAN: You know, it's really hard to figure that one out. I know he has made a point of saying that he is not going to be involved in the news business of the newspaper and so perhaps it's from that angle. But this was one of his employees and I would think at a minimum I'd be expressing condolences to the family, perhaps he has done so privately, I don't know.  But it is a real mystery I think that's a very good question.

MACCALLUM: Yes, obviously the stakes are very high here this is a man who was a resident of Virginia. He's not an American citizen. He has children living in Virginia but what do you think about how it's being handled by Mike Pompeo? There were images that were put out and they're sort of smiling and talking as you know in the way that people do. There was some backlash for that on some media outlets. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Smiling together seemingly relaxed and in good spirits. One has to ask if this is the appropriate tone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are these two men smiling? Isn't someone presumed murdered?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is Mike Pompeo sitting smiling next to the Crown Prince? What do you think they know that we don't?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: What do you want to say about that Ambassador Jordan?

JORDAN: I think they're drawing too much into those smiles. I can guarantee you that many of us have had to smile at photo opportunities with individuals with whom we have had very testy and difficult conversations behind the scenes. The relationship with the Saudis has always been one that has been carried out in private when we had tough talk. Certainly, after 9/11, I participated in some very tough conversations with the Saudis along with George Tenet, Colin Powell, Vice President Cheney and others and you do that behind closed doors and then you come out and do what you have to do in front of the cameras.

MACCALLUM: Just as we've been talking, ABC is reporting that Turkey is claiming that Khashoggi died of strangulation. What do you read into that if anything at this point?

JORDAN: Well it's hard to see from this drip, drip from Turkey exactly what the common theme is. We've heard a number of different stories about beheadings, fingers being cut off, limbs being cut off, and so it's very hard to know exactly what there's narrative is and I think it's really important for the Turks now to come forward with a clear narrative backed up by cold hard facts.

MACCALLUM: Well, they now say an eight-minute struggle of that led to his strangulation and we'll have more coming as we get it. Ambassador Jordan thank you. Great to have you with us tonight.

JORDAN: Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: When we come back, a race that Democrats all would abandon until now. The desperate safe race to save New Jersey, 18 days left.  Let's take a closer look at that race when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: So as 18 days to go, another showdown for the Senate seat in New Jersey. A race where there has been $11 million in outside money spent so far. Brad new polling shows Democrat Senator Bob Menendez with a health lead in the Garden State up by nine points but his Republican opponent Bob Hugin insist that his campaign's polling shows him with a two. And the battle is more vicious by the day first with this ad by Bob Hugin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For several years, Menendez had been traveling to the Dominican Republic to engage in sexual activity with prostitutes, some of whom were minors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: And now this fiery defense from Menendez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB MENENDEZ, D-N.J.: This deceitful, despicable attack ad tells you everything you need to know about Republican Bob Hugin, that he's a slimeball, he's a misogynist, and he's a liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Ouch. Bob Hugin, a Republican Nominee for U.S. Senate in New Jersey, good to see you. Mr. Hugin, thank you for being here. He said you're the slimiest of slimeballs. Why did you go after him with that?  That that charge was not proven by the FBI. It was in the affidavit -- it was an allegation but it was not proven.

BOB HUGIN, R-SENATORIAL CANDIDATE, NEW JERSEY: Let's be very clear, Martha. Very specific allegations with corroborating evidence by the FBI affidavit. When I started this race, less than a third of New Jerseyans knew that he's never been indicted by the Obama Justice Department. Only about 10 percent of New Jerseyans even know today all of the things put in this FBI affidavit, sworn affidavit with these allegations

MACCALLUM: I mean, what we know is true. There were 14 federal counts of corruption including bribery, conspiracy, making false statements. That was -- they basically had a standstill that it was never proven but the Senate Ethics Committee severely admonished him for all of these same charges.

HUGIN: But think about the hypocrisy here, Martha. Here this man pontificating on the floor of the Senate, when is America going to believe women? When are we going to listen to women? And here's FBI sworn affidavit with very specific allegations and corroborating evidence and then when he's confronted with it, what does he do, he lies about it.  Justice Department step puts back to and says no, no, buddy. What you're saying is demonstrably false. That's legalese for lying. What kind of guy when he's confronted allegation lies about them? So he's desperate.

MACCALLUM: But it's interesting that Chuck Schumer's PAC has put $3 million just in recent days into Menendez's race so that's their concern despite the numbers that we see here.

But in the Monmouth poll it says that a lot of the people who are for Menendez are doing it because of their views about Donald Trump. Fifty six percent say that. And you are right, that a lot of them are aware of these charges.

Well, they are not aware of the allegations and also let's think about it, here it is the irony of this whole situation. Senator Schumer who is buying and selling Senator Menendez, he is bought and sold here. His future is going to be so partisan as he is already been.

But think about it, it was Dr. Sal Melgen, Menendez's self-proclaimed best friend, 67 felony convictions for defrauding Medicare. He is one who gave into Schumer's PAC in the first place. Now the money is coming to New Jersey.

If the polls weren't in the dead heat that we see in our numbers, why would Schumer put three million in television ads this week? Eleven -- eight million in total I think an outside money against me. The momentum is so clear.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: It's an excellent question.

HUGIN: A hypocrite, corrupt ineffective.

MACCALLUM: And just to make clear, we have invited, we invited Senator Menendez on the show tonight and that invitation is open. We hope that he will join us in the coming couple of weeks that are left here.

One more poll shows that 48 percent of people in New Jersey have no opinion of you. So, you've got your work cut out for you over the next couple of days. Do you see that as a number where you can grow or you're thinking they don't know enough about me, we're just close?

HUGIN: Look, Martha, this is going so well for us. The momentum is palpable. Everywhere I go more Democratic endorsements, independents. They recognize, New Jersey deserves better and they are going to get better on November 6th. The momentum is so clear. We're going to win on November 6th.

We're very excited about what's happening. You got somebody who is under serve the people of New Jersey for 25 years. New Jersey is dead last. We get the least back from Washington corrupt, ineffective and hypocritical. That's the story. People of New Jersey know better and they are going to get better.

MACCALLUM: Thank you very much, Bob Hugin. Good to see you tonight. We'll be watching the race very closely as we are always big Senate races as we head towards the big day. Thank you, sir.

So as Hillary Clinton losing the Democrats, the new column that just came out tonight in the New York Times says that it might be time for a Hillary Clinton intervention. The host of Benson and Harf is coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A member of the New York Times editorial board is going after Hillary Clinton tonight, suggesting that it might be time for Democrats, she writes, to stage an intervention. Quote, "Hillary Clinton has been on a bit of a media tear in the past few weeks holding forth on both the personal and the political and making it clear that someone needs to perform an intervention before she further complicates life for her fellow Democrats."

Here now the hosts of "Benson and Harf" on Fox News Radio, Guy Benson and Marie Harf. Good to see you guys.

(CROSSTALK)

GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS RADIO CO-HOST: Hey, Martha.

MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS RADIO CO-HOST: Hey.

MACCALLUM: Marie, let me start with you.

HARF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Does the Democrat party need to stage an intervention to get Hilary Clinton off of every front page?

HARF: Martha, I take no happiness in saying this, but yes. I think so. I think that she has become a distraction. I have immense respect for many of the things that she has done in her life and her career.

But if her goal is to help the Democratic Party, the media tour, the comments particularly about Me Too and sexual assault, it's not helping. It is a distraction at a time, what, 19 days out from the midterms where Democratic candidates are looking to the future not the past and she is the past.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It's very interesting because you're right. I mean, she was asked about Bill Clinton, her husband, and she said that it was -- you know, not OK, but she said that it wasn't a Me Too because Monica was an adult. When most of the people or many of them involved in the situation are of course adults as well.

Here's a quote that she says in her first interview after she lost the election. This was to the New York Times. She said, "I just have to make up my mind that yes, I was going to get out of bed, and yes, I was going to go for a lot of long walks in the woods."

And she goes on to say, "I was going to see my grandchildren and spent a lot of time with my family and my friends." And I think a lot of people, you know, believe that maybe that was the case, Guy, that she was going to leave politics. But she clearly hasn't.

BENSON: No.

MACCALLUM: And she may indeed be considering another run.

BENSON: Yes. And I dearly hope that she is. I think Hillary Clinton does not need any intervention. Hillary, if you're watching, I know you probably are. Stick with what you're doing. It is terrific. You've been amazing.

Your comments about civility were spot on, you are totally helping your party and what America is craving is a third Hillary Clinton presidential run. Go for it. Don't let these negative nellies like Marie Harf tell you that you're the past. Girl power, you got this.

MACCALLUM: Well, you know, her approval rating is at 36. I think the president is like 45, 46, something like that, Marie.

HARF: Yes.

MACCALLUM: And when you look at, you know, who people seem to want to tun for the Democrat nomination, Joe Biden is way up there. Bernie Sanders is way up there. Elizabeth Warren is not. She's had a tough week. And Hillary Clinton certainly is not.

HARF: Yes. And I think the focus, I mean, all joking aside, what Guy said is very instructive. Because Republicans are the ones who think she helps them by being out there and then you hear from Democrats particularly these Democrats running in this election.

Many of whom are first-time candidates, they are looking to create and build a Democratic Party of the future that is looking at how to be President Trump in 2020 that it's formulating an economic message that can work. That it's not trying to replicate, quite frankly the mistakes that Hillary Clinton and her campaign made.

And so, again, I hate to say this, I don't like dumping all over her because I think she has been a historical figure in many ways, the first female major party candidate, that is amazing.

But part of being a public servant is knowing when it's time to move on for the good of the causes that you support and I think that's where we are with Hillary.

MACCALLUM: Wise words. Thank you, Guy. Thank you, Marie. Good to see you both.

BENSON Sure thing.

HARF: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So next, are the same people who try to prevent Brett Kavanaugh from becoming a Supreme Court justice behind an effort to silence a movie about abortion Dr. Kermit Gosnell? Michelle Malkin weighs in next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kermit Gosnell is perhaps the most prolific serial killers in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHELIM MCALEER, FILMMAKER: This film has been within the top 10 over the weekend. It's had two reviews in the mainstream media. This is the film that the mainstream media don't want to cover this topic, and you know, because they don't to write anything negative about abortion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Just days after our interview with the producer of "Gosnell:  The Trial of America's Biggest Serial Killer," there are growing questions about what the outcome of all this will be and why some have tried to prevent this pro-life movie from becoming a hit."

Michelle Malkin, host of Michelle Malkin Investigates on CRTV joins me now. Michelle, you've been very involved in promoting this movie and working towards the funding of this movie. And it is, you know, despite all of that, successful.

MICHELLE MALKIN, HOST, CRTV: It is. It has been. It's a remarkable achievement and it's a testament to the force of nature that Phelim McAleer who you just showed, and McElhinney their whole team and a lot of very brave people in Hollywood. Some of them are still underground. And a lot of them, of course, the cast and crew who bravely put their names and reputations and career on the line to tell the truth about what happens in Philadelphia.

It was an absolute horror. It was a massacre on the size and order in proportion and the barbaric nature of some of the worst serial killers in America. And of course, what's odd, Martha, is that most of the media and Hollywood often have this grotesque fascination with serial killers.

They are even deified in pop culture but nobody wanted to talk about Kermit Gosnell, in large part justice fail to mention, because they don't want to shed any negative exposure on abortion. Even though this man committed atrocities against minority women, poor women in inner city Philadelphia.

He murdered dozens, if not hundreds of born alive babies and there were casualties that included a Bhutanese refugee pregnant mother, Karnamaya Mongar. And there were multiple government agencies that sat by and did nothing even though they were aware for more than 15 years.

(CROSSTALK)

MACCALLUM: Aware because they were terrified to test an abortion clinic because they wanted to make sure that that right was protected. But this is such an important story. And to me, one of the most powerful facts is that all the jurors on the case had to be pro-choice in order to be put on the jury because they wanted them to have that perspective. And as I understand it, every single one of them became pro-life afterwards.

MALKIN: Yes. That is correct. I was at the premiere--

MACCALLUM: Incredible.

MALKIN: -- last Friday in Los Angeles. I got to meet the brave detective that is depicted by Dean Cain. And yes, there were a lot of pro-choice Democrats and pro-abortion liberals that were involved that refused to turn a blind eye to the horror here.

And you know, it is remarkable that this indie film was crowd funded with 30,000 donors, $2.3 million raised over a 45-day period after the producer has been kicked off of pro-abortion radical kick starter. You know, even in the lead up to the premiere, you had Facebook banning promotion of ads. You had NPR censoring the description, the clear and plain description of Kermit Gosnell as yes, an abortion doctor.

And you had this a code of silence by Hollywood film critics, and yet the word continues to spread as we enter the second weekend for this movie.

MACCALLUM: Yes. And we should point out that this movie is rated PG-13 so that it is -- you know, a lot of what is discussed is not seen in the movie but it is something that you can, you know, potentially take your older children to. And it's certainly a conversation starter.

(CROSSTALK)

MALKIN: I have (Inaudible).

MACCALLUM: There is doubt about it.

MALKIN: Yes.

MACCALLUM: Thank you.

MALKIN: As a mother I feel it's incredibly important, Martha. I really do.

MACCALLUM: Michelle, thank you very much. Michelle Malkin, good to see you tonight.

MALKIN: You bet.

MACCALLUM: So, she bravely fought cancer and won. Tonight, Gerri Willis shares the untold story of how she dealt with her diagnosis and how cancer has actually proven to be a blessing in her life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is a busy man, back from Saudi Arabia and Turkey, now he is heading Mexico City to meet with the president of Mexico about the caravan issue and other issues.

The word is that of that tape, the gruesome tape that we heard about of the killing of Khashoggi, the State Department will not confirm that he listened to the tape. Because we are trying to determine whether or not this tape exists. And they will -- they say he did not listen to the tape, he can't confirm whether or not he has a transcript of that.

This is an important issue because it would establish some of the facts involved in exactly what happened. ABC reporting tonight that the killing lasted eight minutes and that he died, Khashoggi, of strangulation.

Well she is a beloved member of the Fox family who bravely shared her breast cancer battle with the world. Tonight, we've got images that Gerri Willis has never shared before and the remarkable untold story of cancer and how it changed her forever.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERRI WILLIS, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK REPORTER: Two and half years ago I was diagnosed with lobular breast cancer. Now just before that, six months before that I had felt something strange in my right breast and I went and got a mammogram and it came out clean.

So, I was very excited about that. I went back to work. I was working on a book. The book came out which is on a four-letter word and I was promoting it and while I was promoting it, I felt this all over again.

So, being probably not very smart I promoted the book for a week and then I went to my doctor. And the doctor said to me, she looked at me for about 30 seconds and she said, you are going to go get tested. You need a biopsy. And I said OK, and I pulled up my calendar and I said, next Tuesday looks great.

And she said, no, no, you're doing it right now. Right now. So, I went and I got the test, four days later I'm in the office here at the 1211 Avenue in the Americas, my doctor calls me and she says your test results are positive. She doesn't say you have breast cancer, that was for me to ask. I asked her do you mean I have breast cancer? And she said, yes you do.

So, it took me a really long time to understand this and to accept it. And I actually went through, you know, the mastectomy, I went through several treatments of chemo before I actually embraced the diagnose.

It took me so long. I'm such a glass half full person and I thought I'm going to grin I'm going to bear it. And I'm just going to work my way, head down walk my way through this, and I hit a wall one day. And I had to change.

MACCALLUM: How did understanding what was happening to you change everything?

WILLIS: So, what happened when I was in the chemo chair, and for anybody who's been through chemo and I've got a management a lot of people who watch your show are familiar with this. After a while your vein is kind of collapse and they don't want to accept the chemo. The needle in the vein.

And so there I was, you know, four nurses come in, six needles, nothing is working, my veins are collapsing, I hate this. My shoulders are at my ears. I'm, you know, crying. I'm anxious. My fists are clenched. But I suddenly realized that's not working for you. You need the drug.

MACCALLUM: yes.

WILLIS: The one that's like a foot in front of your face. You have to relax. You have to be part of the solution. So, from there on out, I started working towards the goal. I started helping. I started getting to know everybody in the room. Previously I would have walked into the waiting room and said, there are a lot of sick people in here. Now I knew I was one of them.

MACCALLUM: At some point you talk about coming to terms with how cancer changed you as a person.

WILLIS: I have never felt more gratitude in my life that when I was facing a horrific disease. I just felt like, wow, this is great. Isn't this awesome? Life is a wonderful thing. And that just started a ball rolling that continues to this day. It makes me realize, the glass does not have full, it's filled to the brim and there are so many things to take advantage of. It just makes me misty-eyed to think about it. I just--

MACCALLUM: So, would you say that you're happier now because you had cancer?

WILLIS: I know it sounds really weird. I know it just sounds I know people think, she is such an odd ball. And but, it's really true. It's really, really -- it's so true. Because you realize what your priorities are and who is important to you and what relationships that you really want to maintain and to keep up with. Who is important and what's important. And you really pursue that. And so, everything in your life becomes clear.

MACCALLUM: Some people don't go through this the way you did. Some people really despair and get terrified. So, what's the difference? How do you choose the path that you chose?

WILLIS: Really make a conscious effort to say, this is going to be better. So, what I did was I really filled my life up with my job at that time which was getting better. And what did that mean? That meant exercise, eating right, doing everything the doctor said. Taking the meds. I mean, you know, there was a point when I was in that chemo chair when I realized, and I thought, what if this doesn't work? You have to realize that you have to move forward.

MACCALLUM: You have an approach that is so positive. You know, is that something -- I know you do the run, the common run, you are so involved in fund-raising for the cause.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Team Gerri! Go!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Team Gerri.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go team Gerri.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go team Gerri.

MACCALLUM: Do you feel like that's part of your future? Part of your life to help other people through this?

WILLIS: Absolutely. And I'll tell you why. Because so many people gave to me when I was in treatment. And it wasn't just my family, who they were terrific and my husband who was awesome and can me make me laugh at any time. It was also the Fox viewers who I would be on a down day and you know, social media, Gerri, how is it going? You know, what were you doing?

I mean, it would just lift me up. So, I owe to people. That's what I told my story in the first place. That's why I've been talking of that, because I owe it now. People have given me so much. I have to give back.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM: I mean, what an inspiration Gerri Willis is. I just adore her and I'm so grateful for her for sharing her story with me. OK. So, we are happy that her scans have all been clear. She's had great reports. And we wish her a continued good health. And we will see you back here for more "Story" tomorrow night at 7 o'clock.

In the meantime, stick around because our good friend Tucker Carlson is in D.C. and he's waiting to come right at you. See you tomorrow.
 
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