Dr. Siegel tells Pelosi to 'stop pontificating' on Trump's condition

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Dr. Siegel tells Pelosi to 'stop pontificating' on Trump's condition

Fox News medical contributor shares his thoughts about president's recovery on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'

This is a rush transcript from “Tucker Carlson Tonight" October 7, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST:  Good evening, and welcome to TUCKER CARLSON 
TONIGHT.  

An hour from right now, the vice presidential debate begins in Salt Lake 
City, Utah. It is a legitimate news event, obviously, we're going to be 
honest with you.  

Under normal circumstances, we wouldn't give it exactly breathless 
coverage. It is not that interesting. Nothing about the vice presidency is 
very interesting. Quick, who did Hillary Clinton run with four years ago? 
If you guessed some guy, you're squarely in the majority of most Americans, 
but don't feel bad about it. History barely records the names of winning VP 
candidates.  

It's fair to say that Abraham Lincoln was a pretty big deal. He ended 
slavery and won the Civil War. But how many people remember Lincoln's first 
Vice President? Hannibal Hamlin of Parasail, Maine. Even in Parasail, Maine 
there are some who have never heard of him.  

Nelson Rockefeller became Vice President of the United States under Gerald 
Ford. What do you do all day, someone once asked him. "I go to funerals," 
Rockefeller said, "I go to earthquakes." And that was a fair description.  

With the exception of Dick Cheney, every modern vice president has been 
utterly subordinate to the leader he has served. Most vice presidents or 
afterthoughts in this country, and that was especially true of Joe Biden. 
Barack Obama had such a low opinion of Joe Biden's intelligence and his 
abilities that he openly mocked him to his staff. Twice, Obama refused to 
endorse Joe Biden for President presumably for the good of the country.  

What's interesting, and what's sad in a way is that years later, Joe Biden 
is still in the same role. If he is elected President, Joe Biden would 
remain the junior partner in the White House. Biden will be 78 on 
Inauguration Day. It's hard to imagine he would finish a full term.  

But even if he does, Kamala Harris is more than 20 years younger. She is 
sharper, more aggressive and far more in tune with the radical spirit of 
the modern Democratic Party. Kamala Harris knows what she wants. There's no 
question, she would bulldoze her elderly sentimental boss.  

So tonight we'll be airing the vice presidential debate. But what we will 
actually be looking at is Kamala Harris's audition for the presidency. 
That's the office she is running for no matter what they tell you.  

The debate itself will look weirder than most of them do. Harris and Mike 
Pence will be separated on stage by sheets of Plexiglas like the checkout 
counter in an inner city liquor store. The Biden campaign demanded this. 
Actual scientists laughed at it. There's no measurable health benefits to 
doing it. But whatever.  

These are the same people who wear their masks when they ride their 
bicycles. They're not interested in what science says. They want to look 
serious.  

One thing they are really serious about though, is ideology. They're not 
kidding. Kamala Harris has an agenda, a real one. Over this hour, we'll 
take a closer look at what she would do as our functional President. Those 
details haven't been much discussed in the media you may have noticed, most 
of the coverage is centered on questions like, how do you say your name?  

By the way, Joe Biden still doesn't know. He regularly mispronounces it.  

Most of the rest of the coverage of Harris has consisted of warnings that 
we had better go easy on her. Kamala Harris is a woman, any criticism will 
be regarded as sexist. To be clear, not as sexy, but as sexist, which is 
bad. Watch MSNBC issue the orders today.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Her team is also aware of the unfair gendered 
stereotypes that she might be up against. Secretary Hillary Clinton 
advising Senator Harris to be assertive, to be firm, but also to not do so 
too strongly as to be seen as aggressive.  

Unfair to be sure, but that's the advice coming from the first female 
nominated to be a presidential candidate four years ago.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  Oh, gender stereotypes. What MSNBC didn't bother to explain is 
how in a world where we're required to pretend that gender categories 
aren't real, how in that world can gender stereotypes even exist? What 
exactly does that mean? Well, it doesn't mean anything, obviously, it's not 
a description. It's a threat.  

Leave Kamala Harris alone or we will hurt you. We will smear you as a bigot 
if you attack her. Good luck getting a job after we're done.  

Harris herself has done this many times. She is a seasoned pro at hiding 
behind her own identity. Last fall, for example, poll showed her losing her 
home state in the Democratic primary. That's pretty embarrassing. But 
Harris had an explanation for it. Californians are racists. Americans in 
general are racist. That's why they don't love me.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), THEN DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  But I 
describe and what I believe to be the elephant in the room about my 
campaign.  

QUESTION:  What is that?  

HARRIS:  Electability.  

QUESTION:  What do you mean?  

HARRIS:  Electability. You know, essentially, is America ready for a woman 
and a woman of color to be President of the United States of America?  

QUESTION:  America was ready for a black man to be President of the United 
States.  

HARRIS:  And this conversation happened for him. There is a lack of ability 
or a difficulty in imagining that someone who we have never seen can do a 
job that has been done, you know, 45 times by someone who is not that 
person.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  Yes, a lot of racist Democratic primary voters out there. The 
weird thing is, all of these secret racist Democrats voted for Barack Obama 
twice in a row. That's pretty strange behavior for racists. Maybe its 
Harris's Indian side they object to, or maybe the whole explanation is a 
ludicrous crock of nonsense that doesn't even make sense.  

More likely, voters don't like Kamala Harris because she is a transparent 
fraud from her phony inflected accent or synthetic bio to her featherweight 
work history. Joe Biden's Corn Pop story is more real than anything about 
Kamala Harris, and it's not even true.  

Democratic pollsters know all of this. They've seen the numbers and that's 
why they've told Harris to start using the phrase "speaking the truth." 
Maybe voters will think she is.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

HARRIS:  One of the most important values that I think we must fight for is 
to speak truth. To speak truth.  

We have to speak truth about it.  

We speak truth, and we are loyal.  

Yes, we speak truth.  

Let's speak truth.  

Let's speak another truth.  

Let's speak truth.  

We must all speak truth.  

So let's speak some truth.  

And we need to speak that truth so we can deal with it.  

Let's speak another truth.  

Let's speak truth about our economy.  

And let's speak the biggest truth, the biggest truth of all.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  Let's speak truth. Yes, let's do that.  

To begin tonight, we're happy to have Newt Gingrich here. He is the former 
Speaker of the House, author of the book, "Trump and the American Future: 
Solving the Great Problems of our Time." Speaker, thanks so much for 
joining us.  

Is it my imagination? Or is this a more significant vice presidential 
debate/vice presidential race than we get in a normal year?  

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE:  Well, first of all, I just want 
to congratulate you on that perfect explanation of Kamala Harris's 
brilliant narcissism and her belief that if she says, speak truth long 
enough, people will forget that she's a radical from San Francisco, which 
is her big problem.  

I think this is a very important debate for a couple of reasons. One is 
that you have this huge contrast between the San Francisco radical and sort 
of a heartland conservative from Indiana. And the gap on values and on 
issues is going to be enormous.  

Second, since she has talked about the Harris administration, even Biden 
has talked about the Harris-Biden ticket. I think your instinct is right. 
She is the dynamic force on their ticket.  

CARLSON:  That's right.  

HARRIS:  And she represents a radicalism which, frankly, I hope every 
American gets to see up close and personal and I hope tonight, Vice 
President Pence gives her plenty of opportunity to explain, you know why 
she would seize guns, why she is for paying for abortion in the ninth 
month, why she is for totally open borders.  

At one point, she even talked about allowing the Boston bomber to vote from 
jail while he is waiting on death row.  

I mean, it's hard to imagine, again, if you're from San Francisco, and 
you're a genuine radical, you come up with all sorts of things you can't 
explain to normal Americans.  

CARLSON:  I think I've missed a lot of the dynamic between Joe Biden and 
voters early on. My new view is that because he has slowed down, a non-
attack, just an observation, he seems less threatening to a lot of people. 
And I wonder if you're running against the Harris-Biden ticket, if it 
wouldn't be wiser to highlight more of Kamala Harris's positions?  

GINGRICH:  Well, I think that the more they can make this a race between 
San Francisco radicalism and sort of mainstream American values, you know, 
the perfect example is this question about Supreme Court Justices.  

CARLSON:  Yes.  

GINGRICH:  Donald Trump runs for office, he gives you a list of who he 
would nominate. Biden can't do that. I mean, he can't do it for a simple 
reason.  

If he gives you a list the American people will accept, his radical base 
will go crazy. If he gives you a list that the base will accept, the 
country will repudiated. So he just hides and blatantly refuses to tell you 
what he is going to do, and they do this over and over.  

And because 93 percent of the media is determined to destroy Trump, they 
protect him. They cover up Biden. They cover up Harris. There's no serious 
reporting about the true radicalism of the Biden-Harris ticket or what it 
would be like as you pointed out, and you're exactly right, with Harris 
dominating the next administration.  

You know, Joe, if he got to the President will be sleeping through half the 
day, and she would be working overtime putting her radical allies in charge 
of virtually everything.  

CARLSON:  Very quickly. I can't resist ask you, an MSNBC anchor tweeted the 
other day. At some point we need Truth and Reconciliation Commissions, 
presumably to harass and maybe prosecute Trump's supporters.  

If Biden and Harris win, are Trump supporters in trouble? Sincere question.  

GINGRICH:  Yes and they are in trouble because the full power of the state 
-- look at Governor Cuomo explaining to the Jewish community that if they 
don't obey him, he is going to close the synagogues. Look at Governor 
Whitmer being slapped down by the Michigan Supreme Court because she is a 
petty dictator.  

These are people who love power. If they get enough power, they're going to 
tell you won't be on the air anymore. FOX will probably become the 
equivalent of PBS, and they simply won't tolerate. These are people, if 
they get full power will do everything they can in the first two years to 
make the entire country like California and to ensure that nobody can ever 
defeat them for office again. I think it's a very dangerous foreboding 
election.  

CARLSON:  I'm glad I asked you that question. Mr. Speaker, thank you very 
much.  

GINGRICH:  Thank you.  

CARLSON:  Well, the coronavirus of course hovers over tonight's debate and 
we will play a role in the debate on stage. Today, the President was back 
in the Oval Office. Democrats are still losing their mind over the fact 
that he recovered. He is still alive.  

We'll show you examples tonight. They are funny. We will show examples just 
ahead.  

But starting now and continuing through tonight's debate airing here on 
FOX, you can access live blogs and analysis from the FOX News Democracy 
2020 Live Experience. Think of it as a companion to tonight's debate. Log 
in and head over to foxnews.com/2020live or open the camera app on your 
iPhone and scan the QR code you see on your screen.  

We'll be right back.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  

CARLSON:  We're about 45 minutes away from the vice presidential debate in 
Salt Lake City, a big deal for the first time in a long time.  

One of Joe Biden's surrogates posted a remarkable video on the internet 
that you're going to want to know about. Rick Leventhal has all the details 
from it. He joins us now. Hey, Rick.  

RICK LEVENTHAL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL SENIOR CORRESPONDENT:  Hey, Tucker. Forty 
eight short years ago, Jane Fonda posed for pictures on a North Vietnamese 
antiaircraft gun used to shoot down American pilots. At the time, the North 
Vietnamese were blamed for the deaths of 60,000 U.S. troops.  

Fraternizing with the enemy earned Fonda the nickname "Hanoi Jane" and now 
the 82-year-old actress and activist and former Bernie Sanders supporter is 
a surrogate for Joe Biden using a workout video to try and encourage 
Democrats to cast ballots.  

Fonda has been critical of Donald Trump for years, arrested multiple times 
at protests on Capitol Hill during his presidency, trying to draw attention 
to climate change.  

And now, in a video posted online, Fonda calls coronavirus, God's gift to 
the left suggesting it somehow shows the President isn't helping America's 
working class.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

JANE FONDA, ACTRESS AND ACTIVIST:  I just think, COVID is God's gift to the 
left.  

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Yes, this is --  

FONDA:  It's just a terrible thing to say. I mean, I think it was a very 
difficult thing to send down to us, but it has ripped the Band-Aid off who 
he is and what he stands for, and what is being done to average people and 
working people in this country.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

LEVENTHAL:  Fonda says this election is the people's chance to harness 
their anger against the President calling it an existential crossroads as 
Mike Pence apparently is arriving at the Debate Hall -- Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Rick Leventhal joining us live. Thanks, Rick.  

LEVENTHAL:  Sure.  

CARLSON:  Well, she is honest anyway. And of course, she is right. 
Unfortunately, today, Donald Trump was back in the Oval Office. He 
contracted the coronavirus, as you know, on Friday, all signs tonight are 
that he is healthy and recovering.  

The Democratic Party's foremost expert on chemical injections has 
determined that something is still very wrong with Donald Trump.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA):  The last time I had an interaction with the 
President was the State of the Union address. And after that, you know, I 
tore up the speech and all, but after that, I said to my staff, I said, I 
think he was medicated. There's something wrong with how he came on and 
presented.  

I said yesterday to my colleagues, I said there are those who say that 
steroids had an impact on people's thinking. I don't know, but there are 
those healthcare providers who say that.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  I tore up his speech and all. He is the one with impulse control 
problems. He is crazy.  

Meanwhile, the President has attributed his swift recovery to an antibody 
treatment from Regeneron Pharmaceuticals. He got those antibodies quickly 
after he was diagnosed. He says it may have saved his life.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  I wasn't feeling so hot, 
and within a very short period of time, they gave me Regeneron. It's called 
Regeneron. And other things, too, but I think this was the key, but they 
gave me Regeneron. And it was like, unbelievable. I felt good immediately. 
I felt as good three days ago as I do now.  

So I just want to say we have Regeneron. We have a very similar drug from 
Eli Lilly. And they're coming out and we're trying to get them on an 
emergency basis. We've authorized it, I've authorized it.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  You think of all the things the President could have said he 
could have said, he could have said, I recovered quickly because I'm 
strong. God is on my side. No, he gave credit to a specific medicine called 
Regeneron. We should take that seriously. And so we are.  

So we've have asked Dr. Marc Siegel to join us tonight to assess. He is of 
course our medical correspondent here at FOX. And he is here now. Doctor, 
good to see you. What do you make of this?  

DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, Tucker, I 
want to start with one thing, which is during the last debate, former Vice 
President Biden said that the President wasn't appealing to scientists 
enough.  

So I have a message for the former vice President, scientists at the C.D.C. 
have determined that it takes approximately 10 days from the onset of 
symptoms to where you're no longer infectious, and you can go back to being 
with other people.  

So former Vice President, the debate is on, right. The debate is on by 
science.  

Secondly, to Speaker Pelosi who is not a physician, I wish she would stop 
pontificating on the President's health given that not only isn't she a 
physician, but she hasn't seen his chart. Now, I haven't seen his chart, 
Tucker. So I'm not going to say what the impact of steroids or anything 
else is other than what you said.  

He looks healthy. He is breathing comfortably. He is not short of breath. 
He doesn't have oxygen.  

And he's going back to work in the Oval now, that to physicians is a very 
positive sign, someone who wants to go back to work. And a former White 
House official told me that the ventilation system and the air purification 
system in the Oval Office is excellent.  

Also, I'm sure people will be wearing N95 masks. There will be social 
distancing. There will be disinfecting.  

In terms of the Regeneron. I want to end on the Regeneron. It looks very, 
very effective in multiple trials. Regeneron-Lilly-Genentech, and they've 
been testing it in poor people and people in minority community.  

So the President says he is going to offer it for free to those 
communities. Hooray. That's so charitable.  

But he also, at the end of his talk tonight, appealed to a higher force, 
Tucker that we all must appeal to, which is God -- Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Dr. Marc Siegel, thank you so much for that.  

We've heard a lot from the media about how you can criticize Kamala Harris 
because she is a woman, only the majority of Americans are. No criticizing 
her.  

We've heard almost nothing about what she believes. Her record on illegal 
immigration, for example, her stated positions on the topic.  

Ahead of tonight's debate, we will tell you where she stands on that and a 
bunch of other issues.  

We'll be right back.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)  

CARLSON:  So the VP debate is about to begin tonight in Salt Lake City, 
Utah. You're looking at the debate stage right now. I can't see the 
pictures but there should be a Plexiglas divider between the two candidates 
for safety.  

So what should we be looking for tonight? Other than Plexiglas? Well, Dana 
Perino knows. She is host of "The Daily Briefing" on FOX. She is a co-host 
to "The Five" of course, and we're happy to have her on tonight.  

Dana, what do you expect?  

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST:  Well, I think that America has been 
wanting this debate because last week, they did not like the debate in 
Cleveland. They thought it was just too disruptive, not respectful of each 
other. They felt like they didn't learn anything. And I don't think either 
candidate really came out with any great compliments of that debate.  

Well, I think tonight what you're looking for is, who can bring the heat 
while also killing the audience with kindness? And both of these debaters, 
Vice President Pence and Senator Kamala Harris are very competent people. 
They have debated in the past, I think Mike Pence arguably has a lot more 
experience than Kamala Harris. This is the biggest political stage she has 
ever had.  

Both of them need to show authenticity. That's been something that Kamala 
Harris has been accused of not being able to show when she is on a big 
stage like this, but she has been on the ground here, Tucker for several 
days, getting ready as if this was like a boxing match.  

So she is going to definitely try to prosecute the case against the Trump 
administration on coronavirus. I expect she will bring up the death toll no 
fewer than 10 times, and she will say it did not have to be this bad.  

Pence, on the other hand has to recast the Trump administration's handling 
of COVID-19. He has to say that they're on top of it. But I also think 
Tucker, he absolutely must continue to talk about the economy and to try to 
draw a contrast to show that Kamala Harris is way to the left of Joe Biden, 
and that that could be a disaster for the United States.  

If he is able to do that, I think he will walk away the winner.  

CARLSON:  It's frustrating. It has been frustrating to watch the coverage 
of the Harris-Biden ticket in that almost none of their policies are ever 
discussed. Do you think that the Vice President Mike Pence has it in him to 
force a discussion of what they've said on the record about the issue?  

PERINO:  Absolutely.  

CARLSON:  Okay. Good.  

PERINO:  I absolutely do. And I think that he has to and he is chomping at 
the bit in order to do so. You have things, Tucker, you're going to talk 
about them tonight: immigration, energy, healthcare, in fact, it is not 
only that there are differences between Harris and Biden when it comes to 
the issues.  

There are differences between Harris and Harris on the issues. She is very 
famously flexible on her positions, and he will try to nail her down on 
that. However, I do think that she will try to say, I am running on the 
Biden ticket and she will be a very good partner for Joe Biden in this, I 
believe.  

The other thing, Tucker, I'm watching for is tonight's debate is actually 
the first event in the 2024 presidential election. Both of these people are 
potential candidates when we come to that presidential election, four years 
from now.  

CARLSON:  That's right. You are the most farsighted person I have met, that 
haven't even occurred to me, but I think that's absolutely right.  

Dana Perino, thank you.  

PERINO:  Okay, see you later.  

CARLSON:  Well, "The New York Times" at one point described in fact, the 
day that she was chosen Kamala Harris as a quote, "pragmatic moderate." 
They are able to do that by ignoring pretty much everything she has ever 
said in public.  

She only looked radical last year because she was trying to win the 
Democratic primary. That's what they told us. But once she is Vice 
President, she'll be so moderate that even Republicans will want her to 
take over from Joe Biden.  

That's how they explained what happened last summer when Kamala Harris and 
Joe Biden raised their hands at the debate stage, both in support of 
providing taxpayer funded healthcare to illegal aliens, people who have no 
legal right to be here, you get to pay for their medical treatment.  

No country does that. It's insane. Barack Obama didn't support it. Until 
very recently, no mainstream Democrats support it. There many Americans who 
are going broke paying for their own healthcare. Now, we have to pay for 
healthcare for the rest of the world.  

No, no normal person is for that, and yet when prompted by a moderator, 
Kamala Harris embraced it without pausing.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

QUESTION:  This is a show of hands question and hold them up for a moment, 
so people can see. Raise your hand if your government plan would provide 
coverage for undocumented immigrants.  

[CHEERING AND APPLAUSE]  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  So in a normal year, that would be at the very center of our 
national conversation. That is such a big deal. It's such a boundary 
shattering position to take that we'd be talking about it or not. Instead, 
the media class allied over it. Oh, that's the old Kamala Harris. She was 
just trying to win an election.  

It's like when she called Joe Biden a racist, she didn't really mean it.  

Partisans in the media know the only way to maintain that lie is by 
ignoring what Kamala Harris has been doing since she dropped out of the 
presidential primaries. So they just didn't report on it. If they had done 
their job, you'd know that in June, Kamala Harris backed legislation that 
would halt deportations and Federal immigration enforcement in this country 
indefinitely.  

We're not exaggerating, by the way. We're a lot less partisan than other 
people on TV.  

That was her plan, flat out. It doesn't take a lot of data to show what 
would have happened and what will happen if that plan is ever enacted.  

Today, we learned that in the past three weeks, I.C.E. has apprehended 125 
at-large illegal immigrants in the State of California alone, Kamala 
Harris's state.  

According to Federal law enforcement, quote, "More than 95 percent of those 
aliens had criminal convictions or pending criminal charges for crimes 
including homicide, sexual assault, sexual offenses against children, 
aggravated assault, battery, domestic violence, and weapons offenses."  

If Kamala Harris had gotten what she voted for, all of them would be free 
tonight. Democrats claimed the coronavirus made this legislation necessary. 
Of course, everything they want is now necessary because of the pandemic.  

In a press release, Democrats argued that deportation, quote, "Risk 
spreading coronavirus to neighboring countries." In other words, it's a 
threat to other countries, so we have to bear the threat. Child molesters 
have to go free so that Guatemala doesn't have a higher caseload. For real. 
That's their position.  

The legislation even stipulates that after a conviction or a charge for a 
violent crime, like rape or murder, it is still not enough to deport 
someone. In other words, we need to keep violent criminals here, because 
it's too dangerous to other nations to send them home. They're literally 
saying that.  

So who are these people, these undocumented immigrants that Kamala Harris 
thinks we cannot kick out of the country we have to live with. Let's be 
specific.  

The people like Roberto Montes-Lopez, he was convicted for sexually abusing 
a child. Kamala Harris also went to bat for Salenviedo Orianna (ph) even 
though authorities say he sexually abused a child as well. Incidentally, 
that same man evaded deportation 2018 because he said he had a child with 
him as part of his family unit. Immigration authorities now say that 
relationship was fraudulent. How creepy is that?  

But it's not just child abusers Kamala Harris would like to see remain in 
the U.S., so that other countries don't have to deal with them. She also 
tried to retain suspected murderers, like convicted human smuggler Israel 
Calderon Morales and kidnapping suspects like Pedro Antonio Escobal. Kamala 
Harris was even fighting for Jose Luis Rodriguez Vasquez. He was suspected 
of quote, "raping a minor or disabled person."  

There are many more cases like that. By our count, dozens of illegal aliens 
convicted of sexual assault and at least 14 migrants convicted of homicide, 
of murder, would still be in this country under legislation that Kamala 
Harris supported. That's not a small thing. It's not catching someone in a 
fib or digging up some scary high school yearbook quote or picture. That's 
a big deal.  

Presumably illegal immigration will come up in tonight's debate, we hope. 
What will she say?  

Andrew Arthur is a former immigration judge. He is now a Resident Fellow 
with the Center for Immigration Studies. We're happy to have him on 
tonight. Judge, thanks so much for coming on.  

So are we overstating -- even as I'm reading the script, I'm thinking this 
is almost beyond belief. And be honest, did I overstate any of that?  

ANDREW ARTHUR, FORMER IMMIGRATION JUDGE:  No, you didn't. Under the 
legislation that Senator Harris cosponsored I.C.E. and C.B.P. would be 
prevented from apprehending, arresting or removing any alien in the United 
States unless they had clear and convincing evidence that's more likely 
than not that that individual poses a danger to an individual or the 
community.  

But -- and here's the but -- the government can't rely solely on the 
criminal conviction itself as proof that the individual poses a danger. I 
counted up in the last week, C.B.P. apprehended five individuals who had 
very serious crimes. Three of them had child sex crimes. One of them had a 
conviction for cruelty to a child and aggravated assault. And the other one 
got 25 years for murder. Each one of those individuals would have been 
allowed into the United States.  

In fact, every alien who entered the United States who made it onto dry 
land would be able to remain in the United States and couldn't be 
apprehended by Border Patrol unless Border Patrol already knew they posed 
the danger. But the problem is, Border Patrol doesn't know who is entering 
illegally until after they actually apprehend those people.  

So the bill itself is utterly ridiculous. For what it's worth, it is 
inconsistent internally, too, because it allows Border Patrol to parole 
those individuals in the United States after they're apprehended, but it 
prevents them from ever apprehending them to begin with.  

So it's, you know, serious, significant legislation I can't believe that 
anybody co-sponsored. I think the bill has five co-sponsors and Senator 
Harris is one of them.  

CARLSON:  I just have got to ask about the motive. I mean, if you cared 
about yourself and your children, your country, if you really cared about 
the country, you'd be horrified by this. Why would anybody support 
something like this?  

ARTHUR:  Well, you know, generally, individual Members of Congress support 
bills like this because they protect the immigrant community from the 
dangers of I.C.E. But the problem is that most alien criminals prey upon 
immigrant communities.  

I mean, we could talk about how many MS-13 killings we've seen, in which 
the victim has been an alien, and the actors have been aliens. We see it 
all over the National Capital Area.  

CARLSON:  It's remarkable. Judge, thanks so much for joining us tonight. I 
appreciate it.  

ARTHUR:  Thank you for having me.  

CARLSON:  So Kamala Harris has supported keeping violent alien felons in 
this country. What would happen if that ever became law? And it might. 
Democrats could take total control of everything in like a month.  

Well, you need to defend yourself. Of course, you do now.  

But Kamala Harris is also dead set on preventing you from defending 
yourself. That's why she is advocating for gun confiscation. She calls it a 
buyback. It's confiscation.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

QUESTION:  Do you believe in the mandatory buyback of quote-unquote, 
"assault weapons"?  

HARRIS:  I do believe that we need to do buybacks, and I'll tell you why. 
They are weapons of war with no place on the streets of a civil society.  

I will give the United States Congress 100 days to get their act together 
and have the courage to pass reasonable gun safety laws. And if they fail 
to do it, then I will take executive action.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  What's an assault weapon exactly? No one can define it. So let's 
just put a very fine point on it. It's the gun in your closet. It's what 
you use to shoot targets or deer. It's the gun that rural America buys more 
than any other.  

This will do nothing to lower the murder rate. It will do everything to 
disarm people who don't vote for Joe Biden.  

Let's get specific. If you have a handgun with a 15-round magazine, that's 
the most popular handgun in America has. It comes stocked, it's called the 
Glock, then Kamala Harris will force you to register it with the 
government. If you don't, you're committing a felony. You're going to need 
to pay 200 bucks to do that for every magazine.  

She wants to totally ban the online sales of guns, ammunition and gun 
parts. Most ammo in this country is sold over the internet. By the way, to 
law enforcement as well. The list goes on and on and on.  

Where's the NRA? Where are Republicans? Who is going to stop the Harris-
Biden administration from doing this by Executive Order?  

Colion Noir has thought a lot about this. He's a Second Amendment activist. 
He joins us tonight. Colion Noir, thanks so much for coming on.  

COLION NOIR, AMERICAN GUN RIGHTS ACTIVIST AND LAWYER:  Thanks for having 
me, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  I mean, this has received almost no attention, but at a time when 
the crime rate is spiking and the trajectory seems, you know, like it's 
just getting steeper. This will mean that people who don't commit crimes 
who are law-abiding, many of them veterans won't be able to defend 
themselves. Why is nobody talking about this?  

NOIR:  Well, that's because Kamala is a master at euphemisms. She really 
doesn't stand for much of anything, which actually makes her more dangerous 
than somebody who is actually anti-gun, because she is willing to do any 
and everything to maintain power.  

But what she likes to do is say little soft words, like buyback programs, 
or say things like -- euphemistic words like, especially online, buying 
guns online, for instance. She likes to talk about it in such a way where 
it seems like I can just order a gun online the same way I can order toilet 
paper on Amazon, and it'll just show up at my door.  

And she uses the ignorance of the masses to push this agenda, but she does 
it very softly. Because again, she doesn't really stand for anything. And 
so what ends up happening is it kind of flies under the radar, nobody 
really notices it.  

And then of course, the mainstream media doesn't really pick up on it and 
talk about it either, and so then she just can skate on by and nobody holds 
her to the fire.  

CARLSON:  What she stands for is doing the bidding of the billionaire 
class, like one of the richest people in the world, Mike Bloomberg has 
decided that he can have bodyguards and you can't. You can't defend 
yourself.  

Why does no one point out that one guy, a billionaire is nullifying the 
second amendment to the Bill of Rights?  

NOIR:  You know, the question has been baffling me for a couple years now, 
because he is pretty blatant about it. He even said it with his own mouth 
how he pretty much buys politicians to do his bidding. He had said it 
during the last debates when he was running for President.  

But for some reason, we all just seemingly tend to ignore it. And he has 
actually put more money behind pushing to undermine the Second Amendment 
than all of the gun groups collectively combined. So that's to tell people 
everything they need to know about what this man's intentions are, but for 
some reason, we just kind of let him do it.  

CARLSON:  Yes, a country ruled by an oligarchy doesn't care about the 
population. This is what we're getting. Colion Noir, great to see tonight. 
Thank you.  

NOIR:  Absolutely. Thanks for having me, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Twenty one minutes left until the start of probably the most 
important VP debate ever. Joe Biden, Kamala Harris had not ruled out 
packing the Supreme Court. That's how mad they are about the nomination of 
Amy Coney Barrett.  

In fact, in the last debate, Joe Biden argued it's not important for you to 
know whether or not he would destroy an entire branch of government, so 
settle down.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR:  Are you willing to tell the 
American people tonight whether or not you will support either ending the 
filibuster or packing the court --  

JOE BIDEN (D), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  Whatever position I take 
on that, that'll become the issue. The issue is, the American people should 
speak. You should go out and vote.  

You're in voting now. Vote and let your senators know how strongly you 
feel.  

Vote now.  

Make sure you in fact, let people know -- your senators.  

I'm not going to answer the question because --  

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  Why wouldn't you answer 
that question?  

BIDEN:  Because the question is -- the question is --   

TRUMP:  Because there's a lot of --  

BIDEN:  Will you shut up, man?  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  Shut up, man. Just vote. You don't need details. Just vote. Go on 
Instagram. Everything you need is on that.  

With that in mind, what can we expect at the debate tonight? Saagar Enjeti 
is an opinion host with "The Hill." Always happy to have him on the show. 
Saagar, thanks so much for coming on.  

So this is yet another one of these issues that we've paid too little 
attention to as we debate whether you need to wear a mask when you're alone 
in the woods. But packing the Supreme Court, making the one sort of 
nonpolitical branch of government explicitly political is a big change, 
like revolution style change.  

SAAGAR ENJETI, OPINION HOST, "THE HILL":  Tucker, it is absolutely 
imperative that Mike Pence get Kamala Harris on the record tonight about 
this issue.  

Now, this is a straight up media conspiracy at this point, because Joe 
Biden says I don't want to tell you what my answer is on that. Then his 
vice presidential nominee Kamala Harris is asked about that, and then she 
goes, oh, well, you know, I don't want to clarify that at this time. We 
just want to move on and talk about the things that really matter.  

As you just said, I mean, packing the Supreme Court is one of the most -- 
it could be one of the important -- it could be one of the most important 
issues of our time. Remember, President Obama said to nuke the filibuster 
in the Senate. Joe Biden has said that he is open to it.  

So if they take the filibuster away, if they pack the Supreme Court away, 
the ability for a minority to express and have any power in this country 
whatsoever, could literally be extinguished within the next administration.  

That is not an exaggeration if they are not going to clarify this.  

And remember, she said, March 2019, that she was quote, "open to packing 
the court." Does she still hold that position? Does the Biden-Harris ticket 
hold that position?  

CARLSON:  Things seem like they're moving very, very fast, and I know a lot 
of Trump supporters don't believe the polls and I think it's fair. Clearly, 
they are undercounting Republicans in some places. But if you look at the 
polls today, and you look at the movement in the polls in the last week, we 
can be moving toward one party rule at very high speed. Do you think people 
understand that? The consequences of that?  

ENJETI:  People do not understand the consequences of that whatsoever, 
Tucker, and just because the last time we had one party rule, some people 
within that party wanted to undermine some of the things that were promised 
in 2016 does not mean the Democrats are like that whatsoever.  

They have no compunctions of pin passing some of the things that we've been 
discussing here tonight. That immigration legislation that you passed, Gang 
of Eight -- the Gang of Eight will look like a sweetheart deal compared to 
some of the things that are going to go through a unified Democratic 
government if that's what we're going to see in November. The stakes really 
could not be higher here.  

CARLSON:  That's such a smart point. I mean, they don't have a lot of Jim 
Jeffords and Mitt Romney's in the Democratic Party who kind of, you know, 
take a middle ground stand. I mean, they are all in. They are team players. 
They will move fast for real.  

ENJETI:  No, this cannot be overstated. I mean, Joe -- if people want you 
to -- if they want you to think the mainstream of the Democratic Party is 
Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema. But look, you think Joe Manchin or Kyrsten 
Sinema or somebody like Mitt Romney are actually going to stand up to the 
mainstream of their party? No way in hell, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Ever. Very insightful. Saagar Enjeti, thank you.  

ENJETI:  Thank you, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Well, as we've said, the coronavirus will of course play a role 
in tonight's debate. Is that virus still a major threat to this country?  

Neal Elattrache is a physician from Los Angeles. He joins us tonight to 
assess. Doctor, thanks so much for coming on. Where do you think we stand 
right now with the coronavirus in the United States?  

DR. NEAL ELATTRACHE, PHYSICIAN, LOS ANGELES:  Good evening, Tucker. Well, 
there's no question we're in a different place now this fall than we were 
last spring. The coronavirus is still a dangerous and deadly virus, but 
we're in a far different place.  

You know, epidemiologists here and around the world are starting to call 
for a risk based approach to moving forward. And we're in a much better 
position to assess what that risk is now than we were then.  

In the spring, we were under -- we were operating under a cloud of 
uncertainty and under the cloud of the unknown, and people were afraid to 
make a mistake. They were afraid to do something that would be wrong and 
with potentially horrible consequences. But we've learned a lot since then.  

We've learned a lot about how to identify who the vulnerable population is 
and who the relatively safe population is. You know, the student age kids 
have over a 99.99 percent chance of surviving an infection. The average age 
teacher, the average age athlete, the average age working person has over 
99.9 percent chance of surviving an infection.  

But in those small fractions, the 0.5 percent of people over the age of 70 
that would succumb to the virus, in those fractions lie our neighbors, our 
fathers, our mothers, our grandparents, so we need to invest in identifying 
the vulnerable who will succumb to this and protect them.  

We've also learned a lot about testing. You know, we are in the midst of 
the playoffs in baseball and in the midst of a football season. The 
protocols for surveillance and testing is very robust. Some say well, 
there's been infections so that this isn't working.  

Well on the contrary, it's working just perfectly because we never thought 
that we would have no positive results. But we always wanted to be able to 
identify them quickly, isolate them and stop the virus from spreading and 
we've learned how to use those tests. Those tests can tell us more than 
just a positive or a negative, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  Yes.  

ELATTRACHE:  It can tell us more qualitative results. It can tell you who 
actually has live virus that can infect somebody else. So depending on the 
sensitivity of a test, you can tell, is there live virus in this positive 
test or not? And so used properly, it can be very useful.  

We have learned a lot about our immune system. Yes, go ahead.  

CARLSON:  No, I just think you make a very smart point that the measure is 
not the infection, it is the outcome of those infections. And that seems to 
give us hope.  

Doctor, I appreciate that update on how we're doing. Good to see tonight.  

ELATTRACHE:  Thank you, Tucker. Good to see you.  

CARLSON:  Well, we're about to watch the vice presidential debate. That's 
what we are calling it. Kamala Harris suggests it might actually be a 
presidential debate.  

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)  

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE:  A Harris 
administration together with Joe Biden, as the President of the United 
States, the Biden-Harris administration.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)  

CARLSON:  So who exactly is running for President here? We're confused. 
Mark Steyn is never confused, which is why we're grateful to have him as we 
are tonight. Mark, who is running for President?  

MARK STEYN, AUTHOR AND COLUMNIST:  Well, I think that's a very telling 
quotation, Tucker. Senator Harris seems to be contemplating a situation in 
which Joe Biden might still be around as the ceremonial figurehead. He'll 
get to host the banquets when Angela Merkel or Monsieur Macron flies in, 
but he will be the equivalent of a constitutional monarch.  

And I think Senator Harris sees herself as being more of a Prime Minister. 
She will be setting most of the actual policies and running the ship. I 
think that somewhere deep down, I think that's how she sees it.  

CARLSON:  So does that mean that President Biden would effect the Royal 
wave where the hand rotates like that?  

STEYN:  Yes, that's actually trickier than it is.  

CARLSON:  Yes, it is. I couldn't pull it off as a commoner.  

STEYN:  He needs to spend a lot of time in his basement to master that 
Royal wave? I mean, you know, to be serious for a moment here, Tucker, 
nobody knows who Kamala Harris is, and actually that wasn't bad, Tucker. 
Well, we're going to make you Governor General of the Solomon Islands. I've 
just had a telegraph from Buckingham Palace.  

But, you know, nobody knows who Kamala Harris is. So Mike Pence actually 
has to make that clear to the American people. He has to get her to show 
who she is, and he certainly has to force the game on these issues like 
court packing and whether they're going to create two more states in Puerto 
Rico and the District of Columbia because as you said, things are moving 
very fast.  

You were talking about guns a minute ago. The First Amendment has been 
trashed in these last six months. We have accepted as an apparently 
permanent state of emergency that churches can't hold church services. 
Trump is the new Hitler. But Andrew Cuomo is the guy who threatens to shut 
down the synagogues.  

So if you look at what they've done to the First Amendment over the last 
six months, the idea that they won't use the permanent emergency to take 
away your guns and all kinds of other things, things are moving fast. This 
is an important debate.  

She sees herself as the President presumptive, the President-in-waiting, 
and so the American people are entitled to know who she is.  

CARLSON:  I couldn't agree more. And as long as you're adding D.C. and 
Puerto Rico, why not Haiti and Suriname, you know?  

STEYN:  Yes, absolutely. There are pin pricks at the Pacific Atolls that 
you might as well make new states if it doesn't -- if that's what it takes 
to provide the permanent Democratic majority. They are serious about this 
because they don't want Trump to happen again, and the way for Trump not to 
happen again, is to change the rules.  

CARLSON:  I don't know what we can do about it at this point. But I do 
think and I do want our viewers to at least think through what might happen 
to be prepared in case it does.  

Mark Steyn, great to see you. Thank you.  

STEYN:  Thanks a lot, Tucker.  

CARLSON:  We're just 10 minutes out from the debate right here on FOX. 
We're going to head over to Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum for some scenes 
there.  

BAIER:  Thanks, Tucker. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to Salt Lake City 
where we are just minutes away from the start of the first and only 2020 
vice presidential debate. I am Bret Baier.  

MACCALLUM:  It's a big night. I'm Martha MacCallum. We are live inside the 
Kingsbury Hall at the University of Utah where tonight's debate stage is a 
stark reminder really of the times that we are living in.  

The candidates will sit in those chairs tonight, 12 feet of space and two 
layers of Plexiglas separating them and they won't shake hands in front of 
this small masked audience.  

BAIER:  Now we have been told by the Commission on Presidential Debates 
that when we are talking to you, we can do so without a mask and when we 
are not addressing the camera, we will put our masks back on as we have 
coming in here and on cameras.  

MACCALLUM:  That's right. And of course, we have both been tested multiple 
times by FOX and also by the CPD as part of this whole process, and that 
goes for our crews here as well.  

BAIER:  Well, the President's COVID diagnosis will likely loom large over a 
debate in which Vice President Mike Pence, the head of the Coronavirus 
Taskforce will defend the administration's response to the pandemic.  

MACCALLUM:  And Senator Kamala Harris will make the case that she is ready 
to be Commander-in-Chief in a time when even the leader of the free world 
is vulnerable to a health crisis.  

BAIER:  We're hearing from the President of this university as the 
candidates head backstage to hold their holding areas and get mic'ed up and 
ready to go. Let's get a final update from correspondent Jacqui Heinrich. 
Good evening, Jacqui.  

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT:  Good evening, Bret. As 
you mentioned, both the candidates are here. They've done their 
walkthroughs. The next time we'll see them will be on that stage in about 
15 minutes.  

Senator Harris has a couple of guests with her tonight, a full time teacher 
who is also a veteran and also a State Rep who works as a community 
organizer focusing on helping people affected by coronavirus.  

She is really going to focus on the virus tonight after President Trump put 
out that video saying he was cured by Regeneron, an experimental drug not 
available to most Americans. The D.N.C. slammed Pence saying that he 
peddles the President's lies and the Biden campaign also resumed their 
negative ads in part saying that they want to combat those lies.  

Now, Vice President Pence also has some guests with him. He brought the 
parents of a humanitarian aid worker who was killed by ISIS. Her parents 
thank President Trump for killing al Baghdadi. He also has the widow of a 
police captain who died after a violent night of protests and a black 
business owner whose shop was burned down even though it was spray painted 
with the words "black-owned." He is going to be pressing a law and order 
message.  

Now FOX News poll that came out just ahead of tonight's debate shows that 
these two have favorability ratings, Pence is viewed as more negative than 
positive by a single point, Harris is positive by 13. See how it changes -- 
Bret and Martha.  

BAIER:  All right, Jacqui, thank you.  

MACCALLUM:  So our all-star panel is here tonight. We've got Chris Wallace, 
Britt Hume, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, Donna Brazile, and Karl Rove.  

Chris, let's start with you as we get ready to begin this first and only 
vice presidential debate of 2020.  

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR:  Well, I have to tell you, Martha, 
I'm a whole lot more relaxed right now than I was exactly eight days ago, 
five minutes before the debate. You know, I feel for Susan Page, the very 
able, Washington Bureau Chief for "U.S.A. Today" who is going to be 
moderating this debate.  

But it's a tough chore when you know you've got tens of millions of people 
watching and you have to try to corral two candidates. And I wish Susan, a 
more orderly debate than I got.  

As far as tonight is concerned, I think that Mike Pence has to score a 
clean victory. When you look at the week that President Trump had last week 
with the debate, which according to the polls, he lost by a sizable 
majority to Joe Biden and then getting the coronavirus and the outbreak in 
the White House, he has got to stop -- Pence has got to stop the political 
bleeding.  

You now have multiple polls that show Biden leading Trump by double digits 
nationally, by double digits in swing states like Pennsylvania and Florida. 
And so I think, Pence has to win tonight. A tie isn't good enough. He has 
got to reverse the narrative of this race, which is all towards Biden and 
not very favorable to President Trump.  

BAIER:  Dana Perino, your thoughts?  

PERINO:  Well, I'm just wondering which debater comes tonight when it comes 
to Kamala Harris. I'm thinking about the primary debates where she had so 
thoroughly researched and choreographed the attack against Joe Biden when 
it came to busing that they had t-shirts ready to sell right after the 
debate.  

But the other was when Tulsi Gabbard really took her down in terms of her 
record as a prosecutor and Kamala Harris looked stunned. She was almost 
like a deer in the headlights and that really hastened her exit from the 
race.  

I think that both of these candidates are worthy opponents. They are 
combatants, and I think that it could be a tie tonight and that the 
contours of this race will not change too dramatically.  

MACCALLUM:  Brit, we understand that Vice President Pence wants to make an 
aggressive and emotional case for the White House's handling of this 
coronavirus, and as we all have seen quite clearly this week, they're under 
a lot of pressure to turn that narrative around.  

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS CHANNEL SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST:  Well, there is a 
case to be made. The problem with the ticket has now is it the President 
hasn't made it very well and when he's had opportunities to defend his 
record on this, he harps on the closing of the border to Chinese coming in 
here early in the game, something that he points out to Senator Biden or 
Vice President Biden opposed and criticized.  

But beyond that, there's a long record of things that the administration 
did, which I think are lost in the arguments that have been made. And it is 
-- and the idea that the President and his administration failed on this 
disease, I think is pretty well set, and it will take quite a performance 
by Mike Pence to try to undo that impression.  

He ought to know he was the head of the Taskforce, he ought to know 
everything they did and what we're going to find out is whether he can make 
the case and at least -- I don't think he's ever going to make that into a 
winning issue. But he may be able to reduce the negative impression that 
people have of how the administration has handled this issue, and now that 
the President himself caught the disease in the White House, he has got a 
bunch of other cases, it is front and center as never before.  

BAIER:  Moderator Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief of "U.S.A. Today" 
addressing the audience behind us before they get started here. Karl, there 
have been iconic moments and Vice Presidential debates before, but 
traditionally, they don't move the needle in the big race. Is this one 
different?  

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  Well, it could be simply because 
A, this has been one crazy election year and B, we have the two oldest men 
ever to run for President, and whoever takes the Oath of Office next year 
will be the oldest man ever to do so. So yes, this could be more important 
than the normal debate.  

I will say this, going into the night, I thought the Harris camp did an odd 
job of raising expectations for both her performance and the nature of her 
performance. One of her advisers told the press that she has got to -- that 
he expected her to nail him to the wall and leave blood on the floor as she 
leaves the hall.  

I think that's a rather aggressive approach to tonight's debate. We'll see 
if she actually carries that off.  

MACCALLUM:  Donna, she will be the first woman of color to take this stage 
in a vice presidential debate. Obviously, that carries a lot of weight. 
Your thoughts as we watch her about to come out tonight.  

DONNA BRAZILE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR:  Absolutely a historic night, 
the fourth time in American history that we've had a woman on a major party 
ticket. Look tonight, she ran -- back a couple of years ago, she ran for 
the people. So speak up for the 400,000 small businesses that have closed 
during this pandemic, the 12 million Americans who have lost their health 
insurance. Tell the American people how the Biden-Harris administration 
will do a better job in handling this virus.  

The most important thing she needs to do tonight is to be herself, and 
let's hope that it's a boring debate, a civil debate, and yet an inspiring 
moment for the American people.  

BAIER:  Donna, we don't have to go to boring. Juan, your thoughts?  

BRAZILE:  Boring is better.  

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST:  Well, I think this is going to be a 
cool breeze compared to the furnace that we saw last week with the 
President bringing the fire and the aggression and the domination.  

I think that this is going to be quite calm by contrast, not boring, but 
calm. Because I think it's going to be more substantive. Both sides want 
to, I think appeal to the American voter by saying I can tell you what's to 
come for the next four years. You may not have heard that from the other 
side, but I have a plan.  

And I think for Vice President Pence, the argument here is, can he in fact 
articulate that plan? Can he be more than the loyal supporter of President 
Trump? Can he be his own man? And he has got a political future to think of 
even beyond this moment.  

And for Senator Harris, I think it's her first time on the general election 
debate stage. She was a prosecutor. But I don't think being an aggressive 
prosecutorial type of approach here is going to benefit her. I think she 
has to be more direct.  

But you know how women get judged a little differently, and especially a 
woman of color, she has got to do it with some charm, some sense of humor 
about it because Vice President Pence was a radio talk show host. He knows 
how to be smooth.  

So she has got to do that as well as make the point substantively about 
what she thinks is in store for the next four years, and if she wins along 
with former Vice President Biden.  

MACCALLUM:  Thank you to all of you. We're just about a minute away from 
this getting started. I'm very hesitant to predict a calm evening, a boring 
evening or anything because every notion of every element of this year has 
turned upside down on its head.  

Both of these people can be feisty at times, and I expect we may see some 
pretty strong exchanges.  

BAIER:  And even though Chris may shudder at just the side of the debate 
stage, there are -- it's a different format completely. Nine different 
segments, 10 minutes each. Two minutes answers at the front and it should 
be an interesting night, getting ready to start in just 13 seconds here 
from Salt Lake City, complete coverage on FOX News Channel of the Vice 
Presidential Debate, the one and only of this cycle.  

MACCALLUM:  Good evening. Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the first and 
only Vice Presidential Debate of the 2020 campaign.  

We are live in Salt Lake City tonight. I'm Martha MacCallum.  

BAIER:  And I'm Bret Baier live inside the Debate Hall at the University of 
Utah. The candidates are at their marks backstage. We expect the debate 
moderator, Susan Page of "U.S.A. Today" to get things started in just 
moments.  

MACCALLUM:  So typically, the stakes of the vice presidential debate aren't 
particularly high, but this is 2020 and everything is different.  

BAIER:  It is 2020, a year rocked by a global pandemic, infecting Americans 
all the way up to the President of the United States, a crippling economic 
crisis as a result of that, and a Supreme Court vacancy that really could 
reshape the law of the land.  

MACCALLUM:  So let's get back to our panel and bring Chris Wallace back in. 
Chris, were in that hush moment before the debate begins. And as you said, 
it's nice to be on the side where you're watching this time around.  

You know your thoughts about what we're going to see tonight. Susan Page is 
getting ready to ask that first question. The first one out of the gate is 
always an important moment for these events.  

WALLACE:  Yes, I think you're going to see two very different styles. As 
has been mentioned, Mike Pence is a very smooth performer, political 
performer. He was a radio talk show host for a time. He reminds me a little 
bit in his demeanor of Ronald Reagan.  

He will pause sometimes as he will do a little bit of a head dip. You know, 
he'll be good tonight.  

Kamala Harris, it'll be more interesting. First time on the stage. We've 
seen her be very effective. Certainly she cut up a Joe Biden in one of the 
presidential debates talking about "that little girl is me." But I think 
she has got to temper it a little bit tonight. It's going to be very 
interesting to watch two very contrasting politicians, two very contrasting 
styles.  

BAIER:  You know, Brit, there are moments that a lot of these candidates 
make happen, they'd essentially murder board it like an attorney would in a 
courtroom. If he says this, she says this. But sometimes those are the 
iconic moments you remember from these debates?  

HUME:  They are, but there's not a lot of history of iconic moments that 
are remembered and played up in the media and then form the soundbites that 
are played endlessly on the air afterwards of having shaped a race.  

I remember I was one of the questioners in the debate between Dan Quayle 
and Lloyd Bentsen back in 1988. Quayle had a bad night and didn't make a 
particle of difference in the end. What Kamala Harris needs to do, it seems 
to me tonight more than anything else is not to make some big mistake.  

She and her partner on the ticket are ahead. No big mistakes would probably 
be the best outcome for her.  

MACCALLUM:  Dana, quickly, you know, both sides want to project I would 
imagine some gravitas and a little bit of professionalism that maybe we 
didn't see from both of these individuals on the first time around.  

PERINO:  Right, I think you'll get it. And also there's a saying, if you 
want to be her, you have to see her, and I think for tonight, young girls 
all across the country can see that yes, you too. You could be on that 
stage one day.  

BAIER:  This could make a difference. As we've seen the polls since the 
first debate, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have expanded their lead in 
national polls and in some of the battleground states, but we are still 27 
days from this election and a lot can change as we've seen in 2020, there 
are about a thousand new cycles left.  

Let's turn it over to Susan Page from "USA Today."  

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