More Border Disorder! Is Pat Buchanan's Worst Nightmare Coming True?

This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," August 30, 2006, that has been edited for clarity.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Our top story tonight, last week, Pat Buchanan was here — I wasn't — to launch his brand-new book "State of Emergency" that makes some alarming claims about illegal immigration, but are his worst nightmares coming true?

And take a look what's happened along in the border in the eight days since Pat has appeared on "Hannity & Colmes." In just the area near Yuma, Arizona, Border Patrol agents have been attacked seven times, including having been shot at twice.

Over the weekend in California, pro-immigration protestors raised the Mexican flag over a U.S. post office and shouted obscenities at police officers.

In Arizona last week, a man was arrested after having crossed the border illegally four times in a period of just 10 days.

And in Pennsylvania, an illegal immigrant died at a hospital. The cost to the American taxpayer: more than $50,000.

So does that mean Pat Buchanan is right -- politically or otherwise? We joins us once again in our New York studio.

Thank you for being here.

COLMES: You know, we were just talking. Were it not for you, Sean and I would not be here today.

PAT BUCHANAN, AUTHOR, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You modeled this great, successful show on FOX on "Crossfire," Buchanan and Braden, CNN, right?

COLMES: Something like that. We were once called "Crossfire" on methamphetamines when we first got started!


BUCHANAN: We're morally responsible for...



COLMES: You're responsible for me. Thank you.

BUCHANAN: We're answerable on Judgment Day, all right.

COLMES: All those things we just went through, is that — one could say they're just anecdotal, that that doesn't necessarily mean that all of your premises are correct, those are anecdotes.

BUCHANAN: Those are anecdotes, but the truth is that, look, crime is a hellish problem among the illegal aliens. I think they're 30 percent of federal prisoners and about 4 or 5 percent of the population. There's no doubt about it.

They're here illegally. A lot of Americans are being killed, and robbed, and raped. The president of the United States says one in every 12 illegals has a criminal record. That means, if we've got 12 million, Alan, there are a million criminals in this country because presidents of the United States, going back 15 years, have refused or failed to defend our borders.

COLMES: All right. You say in your book, "State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America," if we don't get control of our borders by 2050, Americans of European descent will be a minority in the nation their ancestors created. You say Americans have to keep Americans of European descent from becoming the minority in order to survive.

BUCHANAN: I don't know that I said that.

COLMES: Would you prefer only white immigrants?

BUCHANAN: No. What I would like is — I'd like the country I grew up in. It was a good country. I lived in Washington, D.C., -- 400,000 black folks, 400,000 white folks, in a country 89 or 90 percent white. I like that country.

We didn't vote to change it. In 1965, in the Immigration Act, Teddy Kennedy said we're going to maintain immigration at about present levels and numbers, and we will not consciously alter the character...

COLMES: All right, but are you saying we should work to keep an 89 percent white country? Is that what you believe we should do?

BUCHANAN: No, no. What I believe is that people should not deliberately alter the character and composition of the country without consulting the American people. If you adopt two children, Alan, you're going to go in and you're going to decide who comes. Who should decide who comes and who doesn't? First, illegals should not come. Secondarily, the American people should be consulted about how many immigrants come, what are the criteria. -- And we haven't been consulted.

COLMES: But it sounds like what you're saying, though, that we should keep the status as it was back then, with the certain percentages of different ethnic groups, meaning 89 percent white, not changing that to any great extent. Is that pretty much what you're saying?

BUCHANAN: That is what — 1964, John F. Kennedy's book was reprinted. You know what he said? He said we should change — no higher immigration, and what we should do is — the quotas given to Germans, and Irish, and English, and others that are not used should be given to folks from Eastern Europe and Southern Europe. That's what Kennedy said. I would go along with that. I supported that in a book.

Now, other folks from other countries, anybody can be a good American. But I do believe this: People who come in the tens of millions from different cultures, countries, continents and all of that are tougher to assimilate. The melting pot is broken, and we need a timeout, as we had from 1924 to 1965 to assimilate them.

HANNITY: Pat, I want to go to the solution, because I didn't get time to get into this in detail with you last week, because you talk about solutions to the illegal immigration problem. You supported Democrat John F. Kennedy's plan then, and you support the same plan today.


HANNITY: But the world has changed. Pat Buchanan didn't change. Isn't that what you're saying?

BUCHANAN: Well, yes. I mean, what Jack Kennedy was saying is, look, look, we need to change the mix of immigration. Some of these quotas are not being used by English and Germans anymore, and so let's give them to the folks who came [here in the] 1890s and 1920s, Italians and others in Europe. That's what I supported then.

And I support right now basically a halt to immigration, go back to Kennedy's numbers, and let the American people decide. If we're going to do 150,000, how do we decide who comes? Turn it over to the American people.

HANNITY: Whatever we decide is fine, too, and I agree the American people should have an input on this. But the bottom line is: A lot of the change is occurring without any respect for our sovereignty, our laws. We have a terrorist problem, and we have open borders. Here's a guy arrested, he crossed the border four times in 10 days!

BUCHANAN: Listen, what you got is you've a hellish situation in the American Southwest, more and more of that. Recendez (ph) crossed the border 23 times and raped and killed nine women. John Lee Malvo, the sniper on the Beltway, 17-year-old stowaway on a ship. He was picked up, ordered deported. They paid a little bit of money. They weren't deported. He killed 13 people in D.C.

All of these cases — Colin Ferguson, 25 people on the Long Island Railroad.

Look, the safety of the people is the highest law. You've got 12 million illegals. The president of the United States says one in 12 is a criminal. Twelve million criminals, he's not doing his job. The Congress isn't doing its job.

HANNITY: I agree with that. Let's look at the politics of this. Neither party wants to solve the problem.

I mean, here we are. We're at the fifth anniversary of 9/11. The biggest area of susceptibility we have is at our borders for our enemies coming across, still wide open. If Al Qaeda members want to cross our border, they're free to do so, aren't they?

BUCHANAN: They said they're going to do it. And we're catching more and more folks who are not from Mexico at all but from the Middle East and Asia. We don't know who they are. Under the "catch-and-release" policy the president had, three in four are turned loose in our society and never turn up in court.

HANNITY: Let's talk about the politics of this. Isn't it a winning issue for whatever party says — or let's say the party that were to advocate the Buchanan-JFK plan...


HANNITY: ... wouldn't that be a winning political issue?

BUCHANAN: Exactly. And, frankly, let me say this on behalf of the Republican Party. They finally got it last December. That was a good bill they passed in the House. And a lot of them are sticking with that.

But if the president of the United States got up tomorrow, Sean, and he said, "Look, I happen to believe in basically a path to citizenship for these folks. And I happen to believe in a guest worker [program]. But the key thing now is, we've got a national security crisis, and we got to make the border secure, and we got to start enforcing the laws of the United States. And I ask both houses to help me out, and let's build that security fence." If he threw that to the Democrats, I think he would save both houses.

HANNITY: I've been saying this for the longest period of time: Control the borders first. Then, whatever other issues we want to debate, let's have a long public debate on what we should do about the 12 million people here and what numbers we should have in the future...

BUCHANAN: It's just like New Orleans.

HANNITY: ... but control it first.

BUCHANAN: It's just like New Orleans. What's the first thing you do? Fix the 17th Street levee. Stop the flood. Then we start pumping the water out. Then we bring the folks back.

If the president will secure the border, if he would just do it even now, with 60 days, and made that the key issue, I think he'd save both houses.

HANNITY: That's right.

COLMES: All right, we're going to pick it up right in a moment with Pat Buchanan.



HANNITY: As we continue on "Hannity & Colmes," we continue now with the author of "State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America," Patrick J. Buchanan.

By the way, congratulations. This book will debut next week on The New York Times list number three?

BUCHANAN: Number three the week after this, yes.

HANNITY: Congratulations.

BUCHANAN: Thank you...


HANNITY: I'm not surprised. I predicted it...


HANNITY: ... when you were here last week.

BUCHANAN: I want to thank you fellows for helping out.

HANNITY: Well, it's a great book. And it's one — I don't care if they agree or disagree. You cannot deny this is one of the top issues of our country.

Let's talk about it in the context of this election. Here we are, what, 69 days out of an election. A lot of smart people are thinking Republicans will lose the House and that the Senate is in jeopardy. Your thoughts? And what could the Republicans do to save it?

BUCHANAN: I work with a very Democratic strategist, and I do television with him on the weekends. And he told me the one thing that can save Republicans is the immigration issue out there, that the Republicans are hammering the Democrats that they're pro-amnesty. Smartest thing the Republicans did was take that tough role, frankly, last December. And, frankly, the best thing they could do, Sean, is stand up and say, "Look, we love President Bush. He's wrong on immigration. We're going to stand for security. We're not going to give any amnesty and no guest-worker program."

HANNITY: I agree with you. I think the two big issues that could turn this, immigration and be the party of securing our borders, and number two, portray Alan's friends for what they are.

COLMES: Who are my friends?

HANNITY: Weak on defense. They don't want the Patriot Act, the surveillance Act, the NSA program, the data-mining program. They have been consistently wrong with a pre-9/11 mentality. That's a powerful message five years after 9/11.

BUCHANAN: Well, I think you're right. Look, I mean, Iraq is a very tough situation, and people are very anguished over it, and understandably so.

HANNITY: You and I have had big fights over it.

BUCHANAN: We've had big fights over it, but I do think this: If you say, look, we're not going to cut and run, and we are tough on national security, and these guys are all over the lot, I think they've got to do that because, a, that's what the president believes, and I think a lot of the guys in the party believe, so I've got — I think we've got to do it. But that's the issue.

HANNITY: All right, let me ask you this. You have been — look, I have been outspoken in my criticism when Republicans are wrong, and immigration has been at the forefront of that.


HANNITY: I think conservatives have intellectual honesty, unlike a lot of the Democrats.

I'm going to tell you something: I really believe, though, when you compare the two parties now, Democrats are weak on this issue. I believe we'd be more vulnerable, more susceptible. We'll be weak. I think we'll tell the world we're cut, running, and surrendering. Is that the issue of our time?

BUCHANAN: Let me tell you: If you had a referendum on the Democratic Party and put all the folks up who are going to be running the committees and everything else, and the referendum to the American people was yes or no on putting these guys in power, the American people would vote no.

COLMES: Well, we'll find out.

BUCHANAN: Your problem — what you've got going for you is — I mean, in the Republican Party, among conservatives, they're down, they're angry about the spending, they're angry about immigration, they're angry about lost jobs. The Reagan Democrats are angry about industrial jobs going. That's what the Democrats got going for them. We ought to keep the camera on the Republicans, because don't let them turn it around on them, Alan.

COLMES: You know, first of all, Democrats want security.


Democrats want the NSA. They want to do it constitutionally with warrants, like the FISA law calls for.

BUCHANAN: Like that judge out there in Michigan, right?



COLMES: I keep hearing Republicans say we want constitutionalists on the courts, and then when Democrats say, "OK, let's enforce the Constitution," you guy say, "We don't need warrants. We don't need to obey the Constitution." You just had a judge declare Bush broke the law.

BUCHANAN: Well, look, even what's his name, Conyers said, look, you know, what the president's doing, wiretapping phone calls overseas is right. That judge — that was an ACLU-shopped judge.

COLMES: That's an ACLU-shopped judge.

BUCHANAN: It was Diggs' — Diggs' widow.


COLMES: This was the first African-American woman to have gone this far in the court.

BUCHANAN: That's Diggs' widow!

COLMES: You know, you want to attack the judge when you don't like the decision of the court. You want to attack the judge.

BUCHANAN: Look, even Democrats said the decision was appalling. That was...

COLMES: What Democrat said that?

BUCHANAN: I mean, everything I heard was Democrats were saying, "Look that decision, that's not going to stand and we'll correct that immediately." Look, Democrats are scared to death for that decision to stand...


COLMES: This idea of Democrats being soft on security, we're still not protecting our ports, we're not protecting our borders. Do you think this administration has done a great job on security, when our ports are wide open? We're letting ships come in with open containers that's not inspected containers.

BUCHANAN: I think...

COLMES: We have borders that are not being protected.

BUCHANAN: I think Bush has done a weak job on the borders, no doubt about it.

COLMES: So how has he been on security?

BUCHANAN: Do you think, really, if the Democrats controlled the White House and both houses of Congress, they'd have a security fence on the border or would they grant amnesty...

COLMES: I don't think we need a fence.

BUCHANAN: ... and get these guys — you'd grant amnesty and get these guys registered the way Clinton was doing. You know, in '96, he registered one million people, 80,000 of them had criminal records, 6,000 for serious felonies.

COLMES: A fence is not going to solve the immigration problem.

HANNITY: It's going to help.

BUCHANAN: It's going to help.

COLMES: Then you're going to have guard the fence.

HANNITY: All right, Brother Buchanan...

BUCHANAN: Make it tall enough.

HANNITY: ... don't be a stranger. It's good to see you. Congratulations on the book. It's a great book, "State of Emergency."

COLMES: Are you going to run again for office?

BUCHANAN: We're looking at it, Alan.



HANNITY: You're going to vote for him?

COLMES: I don't think so.


HANNITY: All right, Pat, thanks for being with us.

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