Anthony Fauci claims attacks on him are attacks on science
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, reacts to latest news on NIAID director, on 'Your World'.
This is a rush transcript of "Your World with Neil Cavuto" on June 10, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: All right, take a look at inflation. It is back, and with a vengeance. The question is how long it lasts, in the latest month, shooting up 5 percent. We have not seen a pace like that since 2008, when George W. Bush was president of the United States.
Take away food and energy prices, which are volatile, and if you want to just take them out of the equation, the run-up was the strongest we'd seen in inflation, minus food and energy, since Bill Clinton was president. You seeing a theme here?
Well, you're probably noticing it at stores. You probably notice when you shop for a car new or used. You're probably noticing it when you shop for almost anything or hop into a restaurant and try to order anything. Prices are up, government spending is up even more, and some are worried that is a bad one-two combination.
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto, and this is "Your World."
And what is going on in this world with prices that aren't only going up here; they're going up everywhere? We're going to get into that in a second with Senator Chuck Grassley, what he makes of this, and whether Washington has anything to do about it.
But, first, let's get the read from Susan Li about how far and widespread these price hikes are.
Hey, Susan.
SUSAN LI, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Neil.
Yes, we're paying a lot more these days, numbers confirming it this morning, with consumer prices rising at the fastest pace in 13 years.
Consumers are spending, because they're armed with stimulus checks, while shortages of labor and materials made goods even more expensive.
So, in May, the Consumer Price Index jumping 5 percent. That's the fastest increase since August 2008. And, as you mentioned, if you strip out volatile energy and food, still the biggest jump since 1992. Gas prices were up by more than 50 percent from last year. Prices for used cars and trucks driving a third of the rise in the overall index.
Car and truck rental prices doubling from 2020, while plane tickets are 25 percent more expensive. More vaccinations, relaxed business restrictions, stimulus and record household savings accelerating the price trends. And you also have outside factors, like shortages for workers, chips, and raw materials, exaggerating the price increases.
And companies are also complaining about higher costs and, yes, they're passing them on to the consumer, Chipotle raising menu prices by at least 4 percent. General Mills, Campbell's Soup, Unilever, J.M. Smucker all say that they will hike their prices.
Now, the positive here is that higher prices are usually reflective of a stronger economy, with economists forecasting the best year for the U.S.
since the early 1980s. And with higher demand, that means companies are hiring. And we saw a record nine million-plus job openings in the month of April.
But for the White House, the Fed and other policy-makers, Neil, you can bet that they will be closely watching these trends the next few months to see if they're really just temporary, or transitory is the preferred word these days.
CAVUTO: I like that, transitory.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: Susan Li, thank you very, very much.
Maybe because the markets might believe what Susan was saying, that this is transitory, could explain why they're running up, up, up, up today. The S&P, by the way, hit a record. Now, a lot of this is based on confidence that all of this inflation stuff is short-lived, we have really nothing to worry about.
But people do worry about it, the ongoing spending in Washington and eventually the deeper we go into deficits and debt, the more problematic this could be.
Blake Burman on why the White House is not really worried, in fact, says more spending is what we need to keep things going.
Hey, Blake.
BLAKE BURMAN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.
And here in Washington, D.C., progressives are actually pushing congressional Democrats to cut off negotiations with Republicans on a potential bipartisan infrastructure deal.
For example, Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal tweeting the following just a little while ago earlier today, saying -- quote -- "Mitch '100 percent of my focus is on stopping this new administration' McConnell has zero interest in working with us. No more negotiating. Let's deliver. Time to go big, bold, fast and alone."
Now, progressive groups have also posted an open letter to congressional Democrats, which ends with the following, saying -- quote -- "A big, bold infrastructure bill that will create jobs and deliver for working families can't wait any longer. And congressional Democrats must use the reconciliation process to pass it."
However, a bipartisan group of senators negotiating amongst themselves, Neil, is signaling today that they just might, they just might have a deal on an infrastructure package. For example, here's how Republican Senator Bill Cassidy framed it earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): We're just trying to popularize it, take the temperature of people. Let's see what they're interested in. It's paid for.
And so that's, I think, a real threshold issue for a lot of people. But it's going to build a lot of bridges and a lot of roads, which, of course, every state needs some.
So I think it's good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURMAN: However, Neil, keep in mind, even if this group is somehow able to strike a deal, it would need to be received favorably on both sides of the aisle and both chambers up on Capitol Hill, and, of course, over here at the White House.
Remember, the plan that the president had first put out, north of $2 trillion, any sort of bipartisan deal would be roughly half -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Got it.
Blake Burman at the White House.
Thank you, Blake.
All right, so you know the fear, that the more the government spends, the more inflation could be a worry. Now, I'm not quite sure about that one, because we have been seeing a lot of spending on a lot of presidents of both parties here, and inflation has not been a huge concern.
Now the question is, is it suddenly going to be a big concern, because now, now it is out of control, as if before it wasn't out of control? Be that as it may, Charlie Gasparino here to weigh in on that. We have also got Sarah Westwood, The Washington Examiner superstar, Kristal Knight, Democratic strategist.
Kristal, you have heard the worries before, the biggest being that, if this spending keeps up, inflation is going to be a problem. Are you worried that, the more this spending goes on, the bigger problem it could be?
KRISTAL KNIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, no, I'm not worried, because this won't last forever. This is happening right now.
We have to remember that businesses are attempting to recoup historic losses from 2020. And so what we will see over the next few months, particularly at the height of the travel season, is prices will continue to remain where they are, really high.
But they will fall off towards the fall, and people will get back to normal and things will level off. What we want is more Americans spending money to pump money back into the economy. And that's absolutely what will happen.
CAVUTO: Well, that is the hope, at least.
But I got to ask you, Sarah Westwood, about the fallout from all of this, because a lot of people sort of dismiss budget deficits and the growing debt under multiple parties and say, well, it hasn't really hurt us, and inflation isn't really that big a deal, and this might be short-lived.
But, eventually, it will be a big deal. I'm wondering if this is that time.
SARAH WESTWOOD, THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER: Well, certainly, it gives Republicans the ability to make that argument more effectively. They were sort of struggling before to counter, come up with an effective messaging counter to the proposals that Biden had put forward on infrastructure and other things on things that are broadly popular.
It was harder for them to tie the everyday effects of, say, a corporate tax hike to how that would affect an everyday American. It's much easier for them to point to a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk and say the price of this is going up because of big government spending.
It also hurts Biden's ability to, as progressives are pushing him -- to go fast. When Democrats are making the argument that this is temporary, we need to wait it out, that takes away a lot of the urgency that Biden had been using to try to sell these big plans, because raising taxes on businesses that are trying to claw their way out of the pandemic -- and that's what Democrats are attributing this to -- would only make the problem worse.
CAVUTO: Charlie Gasparino, you're one of the best market reads I know. And so the markets are not behaving the way you would think, in light of inflation or the threat of that or all this spending or any of it.
Why?
CHARLIE GASPARINO, FOX NEWS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Right.
I mean, because it remains to be seen whether it's really going to happen.
I mean, here's the problem, though, I think. Yes, if you look at bond prices, they're not pricing in massive inflation, although we are seeing inflation in commodities prices. We are seeing it clearly in the CPI report.
You have to ask yourself this. And this is where I think the Biden administration is playing with real fire here, that we're coming out of -- first of all, the recession of the pandemic was not -- was not the Great Depression, OK? It was bad in certain sectors, leisure, restaurants, but the economy didn't shut down. We know that just based on GDP in the last quarter of 2020.
As we came out of 2020, we had a huge stimulus package known as the vaccine. And things are opening up greatly right now. The question of the Biden administration is whether they are playing with fire throwing all this additional spending, and the Fed keeping interest rates at zero, playing with inflationary fire, because let me tell you something.
Once it starts, it's hard to stop. The only way you stop it is to cause a recession, as Paul Volcker did. And it isn't necessary. It really isn't necessary right now. Businesses are opening up. Small businesses, restaurants were destroyed during the pandemic because rocket scientists like Andrew Cuomo shut down New York City, right, and Bill de Blasio.
They are begging for workers. They can't pay them enough money. And they operate on thin margins. That's inflation. And they were calling for inflation very early.
So, I think the Biden administration is playing with fire. They -- there is no -- they have no -- there's no statistics or no data that shows this is going to be temporary. They don't know that. We hope that.
But it's -- they are really rolling the dice here.
CAVUTO: No, they are.
And then, Kristal, to earlier point, you hope it's short-lived. Most people do. A lot of people, including Janet Yellen, the Treasury secretary, welcome the higher prices, think it would be good for everybody, just doesn't get too out of control.
I could bore you and telling you what my wife and I paid for our first mortgage, and that rates are still a lot lower than they were. But why should I do that, when I do that every other day?
So, I'm wondering, from your vantage point, Kristal, that, is that a worry, a quiet little whisper worry, that it could get out of control, that you don't see it happening, but, if it does, all bets are off?
KNIGHT: Well, it's always a worry. But we also have history to show us that the economy will always recoup, it will always come back to -- go back to normal.
We can look at the spending plans when FDR was in office. We can look at the economic plans when Clinton was in office.
GASPARINO: Actually, we don't have that. We don't have -- we don't...
KNIGHT: Well, we actually can look at those -- well, wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARINO: No, I mean, it -- go ahead.
KNIGHT: We can show -- we can look at those -- we can look at the history and show that, when those presidents were in office...
GASPARINO: Look at the history of inflation. Look at the history of inflation. It does matter.
(CROSSTALK)
KNIGHT: It doesn't matter, because it always resettles down.
GASPARINO: Right, it resettles after you...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: Sometimes, it does. But, sometimes, it takes a while, right?
Sometimes, Charles, it takes a while.
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARINO: It just doesn't take a while sometimes.
The Fed has to induce a recession, a steep recession, if prices get out of hand. By the way, remember the 1970s? You guys are...
CAVUTO: We should just explain, Charlie...
GASPARINO: Right.
CAVUTO: ... the Federal Reserve could do that by hiking interest rates to respond to this.
GASPARINO: Right. That's how you do that.
CAVUTO: And that's what Paul Volcker early in the Carter years.
GASPARINO: Right.
CAVUTO: And, of course, we remember what happened.
GASPARINO: Right.
CAVUTO: So, I get what you're saying. But that is probably unlikely, don't you think?
GASPARINO: I don't know. I don't know.
If this CPI number...
KNIGHT: If you don't know...
(CROSSTALK)
GASPARINO: No. No. Wait a minute.
If this CPI number keeps repeating itself, the Fed will raise interest rates. It will cause an economic slowdown. They will do that because their mandate is low inflation.
CAVUTO: So, Sarah, let's say the Federal Reserve does that.
(CROSSTALK)
KNIGHT: But these are all hypotheticals. We don't know.
CAVUTO: No, I get you. But I do want to get Sarah's views on this.
Sarah, if you just pipe down in the future, but your point on this is what?
Does it worry you if the Federal Reserve responds by aggressively raising rates in this environment?
WESTWOOD: Well, right now, the Biden administration is sort of arguing that none of that intervention is going to be necessary, it's going to go away. And, obviously ,the only true test of whether this is, in fact, a blip, it's just a result of pandemic-related supply chain disruptions and things like that will work itself out quickly, or whether this is a longer- term problem that was induced in part by Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus plan remains to be seen.
But it takes away all of the urgency for him to get the rest of his spending packages through Congress in -- at a time when he was already running out of minutes on the clock to do that. The argument that he had made the entire time since he took office is this sort of slogan build back better.
If there are signs that the economy is building back on its own, the justification for those policies go away.
GASPARINO: Right. That's -- is it worth it? Is it worth rolling the dice?
But is it worth rolling the dice on Hamburger Helper? Remember that?
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
GASPARINO: You remember that, Neil.
CAVUTO: There's nothing wrong with Hamburger Helper.
GASPARINO: That's an inflationary food.
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: All right, guys.
I hear you. I hear you.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: All right, guys, I want to thank you all, a very respectable argument here.
So, we're going to be focusing on that, also focusing on how all this is falling out of the G7 meeting going on right now, well, across the pond in merry old England.
One thing that's very interesting -- again, it's early -- the way leaders are responding to Joe Biden vs. how they used to respond to Donald Trump.
Remember that NATO summit where they snickered at him?
Is it me, or is no one snickering at Joe Biden? Hmm.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: All right, well, so much for talk that there would be tensions between Boris Johnson and Joe Biden, the British leader saying of Joe Biden that he's a breath of fresh air.
I don't know if that was an intended slap at his predecessor, but again, very close eyes being kept on both of these gentlemen.
Peter Doocy in Cornwall, England, with more.
Hey, Peter.
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Neil, good evening from Cornwall.
And President Biden is trying to talk like the locals, as he explains why it is that he wants to spend four billion U.S. taxpayer dollars, some of it from the American Rescue Plan already passed, vaccinating the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to keep manufacturing doses, donating doses, getting jabs, as they say here in the U.K., in arms, until the world has beaten this virus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOOCY: Biden spoke proudly of the special relationship between the U.S.
and U.K., even though that is a phrase, special relationship, Boris Johnson previously said he thought made the Brits sound weak.
But it didn't seem to cause any friction. The U.S. president and the U.K.
P.M. visited an exhibit showing the Atlantic Charter signed by Roosevelt and Churchill at the start of World War II. And then they signed on to a new Atlantic Charter, with a new emphasis on stopping election interference, stopping cyberattacks, and stopping climate change.
The new charter includes this line: "The world has reached a critical point where it must act urgently and ambitiously to tackle the climate crisis, protect biodiversity and sustain nature. Our countries will prioritize these issues in all our international action."
And that fits with Biden's rollout of the Biden foreign policy doctrine in his first trip overseas, just break with Trump every chance you get -- Neil.
CAVUTO: All right, Peter Doocy in Cornwall, England, thank you.
If you look at the media treatment and coverage that Joe Biden has been enjoying vs., let's say, Donald Trump used to get when he'd go on foreign trips, it's a little bit different. I don't think I'm taking a leap here to say that most European leaders tend to prefer Democratic presidents to Republican ones, just the treatment that Ronald Reagan got, and even George W. Bush got.
Sometimes, it changed over the years, certainly in the case of George W.
Bush after 9/11. But the fact of the matter is, it's a constant.
But who can forget the snickering among world leaders when Donald Trump was addressing the NATO summit there in 2017? Very, very different reaction today.
Jonathan Hunt following all of this from L.A. And he has his substantial British connections, including his mom.
And I was thinking to you, Jonathan, because this president will be meeting with the queen, I think on Sunday. For the queen, it's the 14th U.S.
president she will be meeting.
What is your mom saying about all this?
(LAUGHTER)
JONATHAN HUNT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
Well, she's delighted that he's there. She's delighted that he's meeting the queen. The president, by the way, paying tribute to Prince Philip just today. Of course, Prince Philip died recently. Today would have been his 100th birthday.
And so the president and Jill Biden will -- the first lady will be having tea with the queen at Windsor Castle on Sunday. And I think they will probably get on very well. They're two people, I think the president and the queen, who seem to have a similar approach to the world.
The queen will enjoy having them there, as she has done. She was very polite, remember, had a very good meeting, at least according to President Trump, with him. I'm sure this one will go equally well.
She may also privately be thinking, as Boris Johnson said openly today, that President Biden is a breath of fresh air after President Trump, but very difficult to get in the queen's head. She keeps those kind of thoughts very private, Neil.
CAVUTO: Yes.
I hear she has a great sense of humor. And she did like that aspect of Donald Trump, said he had a great sense of humor, and they laugh a great deal. But you never know what's really going on.
I'm just wondering, too, with the fact that Joe Biden is really kind of on the same page with most of his G7 counterparts when it comes to getting back to the climate accord, doing some of these things to expand more aid to poor countries, sort of dismissing for the time being this NATO country- by-country spending contribution, at least publicly.
I wonder if that's why Joe Biden gets the kind of at least official reactions he's getting.
HUNT: Yes.
And I think, policy-wise, he is certainly more in step absolutely, with most of the European leaders that you see at these G7 summits. So, yes, they will be relieved about that to some extent. But I also think it's a relief because of the change in tone. President Trump did not abide by the norms of international diplomacy, rightly or wrongly. That made a lot of those other world leaders nervous in some cases, outright offended in others.
And they -- I think they are actually pleased to see that they will have be facing a president here who is not going to be, shall we say, as unpredictable as President Trump. They're also reflecting the feelings of their populations, Neil.
Pew Research just did a survey of the view of the U.S. now compared to the view of the U.S. at the end of the Trump presidency. It is almost double in terms of its favorability. So, there has been an absolute sea change from President Trump to President Biden in terms of the view of the presidency and the view of the United States.
Now, that may be right, it may be wrong in the eyes of a lot of American voters. But that is the fact on the ground. People are relieved to see President Biden there, rather than President Trump, rightly or wrongly.
CAVUTO: Got it.
I do want an update from your mom when she finally gets to see how the queen reacted to Joe Biden, her 14th U.S. president.
(LAUGHTER)
HUNT: I promise you will get it.
CAVUTO: So, I'm waiting for that, Jonathan, please. Thank you, my friend.
Jonathan Hunt, great job looking at how this all translates. It's fascinating when you look at presidents at different times at different foreign venues. But this one is still early on. We have a lot to go.
Meanwhile, the fuss over Dr. Fauci saying, you go rip him, you're ripping science. A former Trump top administration official who I think just said, say what?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: A real hullabaloo over what happens now in Washington if it looks like the infrastructure deal is done, finis.
Does Chuck Grassley agree? We will ask him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: So, if you are trying to get at me, as a public health official and a scientist, you're really attacking not only Dr. Anthony Fauci; you're attacking science.
And anybody that looks at what's going on clearly sees that. You have to be asleep not to see that. That is what's going on. Science and the truth are being attacked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: All right, but truth is in the eye of the beholder, right?
But Dr. Fauci's remarks that attacking him is equivalent to attacking science, we thought we'd go to a fellow who served with him. You, of course, remember this next gentlemen, Admiral Brett Giroir, the former assistant health and human services secretary.
Admiral, very good to have you.
ADM. BRETT GIROIR, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES: Great to be with you.
CAVUTO: What did you make of what Dr. Fauci said there?
GIROIR: So, the American people are not attacking or arguing with science.
The American people are arguing with and are frustrated by unsubstantiated opinions that masquerade as scientific fact. And when these supposed scientific facts change over time, there's a loss of trust. What do you expect?
Look back last year, when we were all told and Dr. Fauci said all the data point to COVID being of natural origin, it happened in a bat and just got transmitted to a human. We weren't even allowed to talk about alternative hypotheses, like a lab leak, on social media. But now we know that's the most likely event.
So, we're not arguing with science. People need to be careful about what they say is scientific fact. And if it's not fact, they ought to be straight with the American people and say, we don't know, but we're trying to find out.
CAVUTO: I just -- I didn't realize, Admiral. Is that now, that it came out of a lab, the likely event now? Has that been accepted as fact? I didn't think that we knew for sure.
GIROIR: So, we don't know for sure.
I made the assessment in March. Certainly, Dr. Redfield made it much earlier.
CAVUTO: Yes.
GIROIR: But I made it in March that it is most -- most likely that it came from a laboratory, because, number one, the WHO report clearly showed that, after 80,000, animal specimens, there was nothing related to COVID-19, and, more importantly, that the nearest virus were at least several decades of evolution away from COVID-19.
And now we know there was gain of function work on bat coronaviruses in the Wuhan laboratory, and, in all likelihood, three people got sick in November, the exact time when we know COVID hit the Wuhan area, so, circumstantial evidence, but becoming compelling.
CAVUTO: As well, Admiral, I go back and forth on these e-mails and the timing of funding for this Wuhan lab, at least the American component of that, and some of the research being done.
Who writes off on that?
GIROIR: So, these -- there's been a lot of funding to the organization.
But the specific grants came from NIH, and they came from an Institute called NIAID. That's Dr. Fauci's institute. So, he has to directly or indirectly approve all of those grants, because it is his institute. The buck stops with him.
CAVUTO: All right, so when you worked with Dr. Fauci, sir, and we always -
- we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but now some of these e- mails reveal, not across the board, some tension, as well as the message to put out on masks, whether they're necessary, on how long and how widespread restrictions should be.
Did the president, did President Trump at the time defer to Dr. Fauci and his wishes? Did his moves and recommendations carry the day?
GIROIR: I think that's incorrect.
I think the media and perhaps Dr. Fauci himself puts too much importance on him as a singular person. There was really a strong scientific group within the task force. And, almost uniformly, we came to a recommendation that was joint that we recommended to the president or to the vice president.
So I don't think there was any deference to him personally. The president and the vice president certainly took all the scientific evidence and the uncertainties around it into their decision-making. But they also looked at broader things, like employment and mental health and food shortages and everything, aside from just the narrow infection control that many people who are in that area with look at.
They had much broader responsibilities.
CAVUTO: Understood.
Admiral Brett Giroir, very good seeing you. Thank you. We appreciate that.
We're going to get a read on all of this with Senator Chuck Grassley on just what he makes of all of this, as well as, at this time, all of this spending going on, including what we're told will be a sort of a tamed-down and toned-down infrastructure measure, but not a guarantee on that either.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: All right, as you heard Dr. Anthony Fauci is not so sure, but it does seem pretty clear that Admiral Brett Giroir, the former Health and Human Services assistant secretary, with whom I was just chatting, does indeed think that the evidence points that -- to the COVID virus starting in that Wuhan lab.
I thought that would be a good way to kick things off with Senator Chuck Grassley, kind enough to join us, the Senate Budget Committee, Senate Finance Committee, Iowa Republican senator.
What do make of that? Are you of that mind, Senator, that this all started in a Wuhan lab?
SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R-IA): For a whole year, we have had people talking about it.
And there's some -- even some evidence that, in May of last year, there were some reports coming out that indicated that. And then there was all -- it looks like all this effort to cover up that point of view and everybody to protect their -- wipe out their tracks.
So, here's where I am today. Dr. Fauci, instead of just saying, whether it's personal about him or whether it's science, he's a person that ought to be in the middle of helping us get to the bottom of this, because scientists like him don't ever take yes or no for an answer. Everything is subject to peer review.
And all of this, whether it's science, or whether it's politics, or whether it's international relations, this is all subject to the laws of science.
We ought to get to the bottom of this, anything.
And you don't take the first answer you get. You go out there and get it.
And we have a responsibility here in the Congress, because we appropriate this money. We need to know what it was used for. And we need to know every hand that -- that an American had in whatever happened in that lab.
This is all public information. The public's business ought to be public.
CAVUTO: So, Senator, I'm curious.
If the Chinese are dead set against helping us find out about this, or learn about this, or even grant us access to that lab, we're never going to know.
GRASSLEY: Well, that -- you're probably right.
But here's what -- here's what the world community of nations ought to be thinking about, because the whole world is affected by this virus. And they're -- what they're saying to the rest of the world is that, if we have another pandemic, you know, it's no big deal.
They ought to be helping us get to the bottom of this for their -- the sake of their own people. But if they don't want to, then the power of the world community of nations ought to come down on them.
CAVUTO: You know, I did mention China, sir. And it might be a bit of an off-the-wall question. I'd be curious to get your views, though.
China's certainly agitating with Taiwan, a bigger, greater presence, flyovers, very intimidating actions. If they were to outright invade Taiwan, are we going to war? Do you think we should go to war with China?
GRASSLEY: Well, that's hypothetical thing.
But I think, if China decided they want to do it, and as close as it is, that they're -- that they can do it, and there wouldn't be much we could do to stand in the way. But they would be violating every law of -- every international law in the process of doing it.
I don't get this about China, being the second largest economy in the world, being one of the most -- one of the four biggest political -- military powers in the world. Why are they concerned about this little island of Taiwan with about 32 million people on it? What is that threat to China? I don't get it.
And I like to think of China, every time we ask a question about them, they say, well, you're interfering in our internal affairs.
They're a 5,000 -- old group of people. They have been around historically.
We have been around, the United States, about 400 years. So it just seems to me they ought to be a big player in the international community, instead of being worried about what other people think about them.
We criticize them. Let them criticize us. But we ought to be talking to each other all the time. And there's no reason why they have to be defensive on everything that we ask questions about, including this Wuhan thing.
CAVUTO: But if you were indeed president, even advising this one, and China were to invade Taiwan, that sounds to me like an act of war. To you -
- at least to you?
GRASSLEY: Yes, it is an act of war.
And what I can't tell you, from a legal standpoint, the obligations we have under the 1979 Taiwanese Act. We may have some obligations there that we would have to fulfill. And it's very necessary, if the United States makes a commitment to another nation, we keep that commitment.
Otherwise, we're just like the Obamas, drawing a red line in the sand, and then that's crossed, and they don't have any retribution. Then it just encourages more red lines being crossed. So, we have got to keep our credibility with other nations that we have obligations to.
CAVUTO: All right, Senator Grassley, thank you very much for joining us.
We do appreciate it.
All right, in the meantime here, talking about appreciating just good reporting on the border with our own Griff Jenkins. So many of you responded to or were mesmerized by this exchange. It was all in Spanish, a smuggler crossing the border for all the world to see, including Griff's cameras, and Griff talking to the guy, he says in clumsy Spanish.
I thought it was pretty impressive.
What we learned about a situation that will not go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFF JENKINS, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: ... is coming over towards us. I'm just going to take a moment and ask him a few questions.
(SPEAKING SPANISH)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: All right, if you were watching this show yesterday, you saw all of that unfold live. And our Griff Jenkins was the guy doing that.
Griff was making fun of his own Spanish, but it was pretty good to me. And what rudimentary knowledge I had of it, I mean, I was catching the gist of what the guy was saying.
But it's this kind of reporting and the fact that Griff was just listening, taking it all in, it really was that summarizing.
Griff, good to have you back with us.
That proved better than any story, print or otherwise, how real this issue is at the border, that it's not under control, that the problem isn't going away, that it's still a big problem. Your thoughts?
JENKINS: Well, Neil, thank you. You're very kind to say so.
And we are just trying to get this story by meeting it head on, in this case, in the middle of that river behind me, talking to a smuggler, who says his name was Juan.
And my Spanish isn't very good, but at least I have some grasp of the right words. And he was willing to engage me and try and communicate with me, telling me that he makes about $100 to $200 a day moving migrants across the Rio Grande, and that he is certainly doing it every day in a concerted effort, most of those migrants being Venezuelan.
When I asked him about the administration's assertion that the border is closed, or cerrado in Spanish, he says, "No, no, abierto," meaning it's open. And that is exactly what the smugglers tell us too.
If we go up to the sky drone cam, I will show you, Neil. We can see on the other side of the bank some activity, a car and a couple of migrants turned out here. We don't know whether they intend to cross or whether it's going to be ahead of a large crossing, which is what happened, obviously, you saw, yesterday about this exact same time.
Now, what's significant though, is that for those new CBP official May numbers came out, we now know that this sector alone in Del Rio is up 457 percent. Now, that's the number of migrants coming just this month in May.
That means that cartels' profits are up 457 percent as well.
This comes ahead, in just a few hours, Governor Greg Abbott will be here, Texas governor, meaning was sheriffs, judges and mayors about how to solve the problem. I asked the local Val Verde County sheriff, Joe Frank Martinez, what it is that the governor needs to know.
Here's what he told me. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE FRANK MARTINEZ, VAL VERDE COUNTY, TEXAS, SHERIFF: And I think he needs to know what the -- the strain that the counties are going through.
For example, our county, in the last eight to 10 weeks, we have lost probably $110,000 just in the jail itself, not counting any other associated expenses. So we need more resources. We -- the -- it can't be a burden on the taxpayers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: And that is so important, Neil, that last point the sheriff was making, because Governor Abbott told Sean Hannity last week that he intends to get this under control by arresting every single illegal crosser on site to prove an enforcement point.
However, on the local level, they can't sustain that sort of thing. Sheriff Martinez telling me, yesterday, there was about 450 arrests in this area.
That would mean for 450 arrests every single day here. His jails couldn't do it. And his taxpayers in Del Rio certainly couldn't pay to build new jails right now -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Griff, whatever happened to the smuggler, the guy you were talking to?
JENKINS: The smuggler went back on the other side of the river.
I asked the local authorities here why they don't engage the smuggler when he gets all the way to the U.S. side, because, as we saw from the video, they will often walk people, particularly the elderly and those who are struggling, all the way to the banks.
They said that, if they were to get in the water and arrest these smugglers, they would have a hard time prosecuting them, and it could cause a situation that could cause the migrants to drop babies or put other people in more precarious, dangerous situations, particularly when you saw the currents we were in yesterday -- Neil.
CAVUTO: But he wasn't afraid of you or your cameras, was he?
JENKINS: He sure wasn't. And I asked him if he feared Border Patrol or U.S. officials. He said, no, he didn't, but that he does fear the Mexican law enforcement, saying the Mexican police are, in his words, corrupt, and they're a bigger threat to him, he says, than the U.S. officials.
CAVUTO: Griff, just amazing.
This is a reminder to all who think there's nothing really going on at the border, sometimes, you have to be there to see for yourself, just like Griff.
We will have more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: All right, Facebook has a smartwatch, two cameras, has a heart monitor, actually something that will be bothering you pretty much constantly here.
So, is it your watch or is someone watching you?
Gianno Caldwell joins us, Elizabeth Pipko, "Finding My Place" author, much more, with us.
Gianno, what do you think? I mean, this is a watch that is supposedly capable doing a lot of things simultaneously checking up on you. But is it really just checking up on everything you're doing?
What do you think?
GIANNO CALDWELL, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Listen, finding other additional revenue stream, so they can sell our data.
I honestly don't trust Facebook with much of anything, especially since I have seen what they have done with conservatives and my posts, unfortunately. I post on Facebook, and it doesn't get any legs, and it makes no sense, when I have thousands of people.
But, anyway, I think that watch, in and of itself, could be a seller, because they have a lot of users. So they have a lot of ad space to sell it. But, still and all, I don't know if it's going to be much of a competition with the Apple Watch, which has been a really good, strong seller for Apple.
CAVUTO: Yes, but Samsung has a good product as well.
Elizabeth, I'm just curious. I mean, they say young people in particular to these type of technologies. You're both young people. I have an abacus on my wrist right now.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But what do you make of this? I mean, does it sound intriguing to you that it can do more, or so Facebook says, than an Apple Watch?
ELIZABETH PIPKO, AUTHOR, "FINDING MY PLACE": I will be honest. I am not into technology. It is not my forte. It freaks me out. And it is exactly for reasons like this.
(LAUGHTER)
PIPKO: I remember reading about this a couple years ago, and, like, the tracking that these companies like Facebook could do on us, and reading about they're already tracking my location, they're tracking my purchases.
All that was left for them was my heart rate. So, I'm so glad they finally figured that out.
(LAUGHTER)
PIPKO: And now they have all the information they could possibly need on all of us.
CAVUTO: All right, so you kind of share the skepticism Gianno has.
Gianno, I was thinking of you, though, with this new Tesla Plaid model that's coming out, an S model, that is going to set for 130,000 bucks. It can go to zero to 60 in less than two seconds.
That sounds like a Gianno Caldwell Batmobile. Are you interested?
CALDWELL: Well, I will be honest, Neil. I would rather put that money in the binary option market or the future market and make more money off of it.
(LAUGHTER)
CALDWELL: I'm not really into Teslas. I prefer putting gas in my car and driving it. I'm not really interested in having to charge it for two, three hours, and then move. I want to get up and move whenever I can.
And, unfortunately, I don't have the private jet money that you have -- just yet, I should say.
CAVUTO: Oh, please.
CALDWELL: So, I will leave that to the big, big spenders like yourself.
CAVUTO: Yes, just yet. Listen to you.
Well, Elizabeth, what about you? I mean, obviously, that's a lot to pay for a car, but the whole electric thing seems real. Do you think it is, that it's here to stay?
PIPKO: Yes, look, I will tell you two things.
Number one, my deepest, darkest secret, I can't drive. And, I mean, when God made me, he made sure I did not have the ability to drive.
(LAUGHTER)
PIPKO: So, I'm not an expert on this at all.
However, we do own a Tesla. I can tell you, we went through hell and back trying to find the color and model that we wanted. So, I can assure you, with everything I saw, everything I went through, the number of sign-ups for things like the Cybertruck, which no one, I think, has even seen yet, Elon Musk is not going to have any trouble finding customers for this.
CAVUTO: All right. Well, I don't think he will either.
By the way, that's not just you who can't drive. My wife, she drives, but she really can't drive.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: But is she watching? Oh, boy.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: All right, guys, thank you both very, very much.
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