Ted Williams: There was no remorse today from Chauvin, will be a target in jail
Fox News contributor reacts to ex-cop's sentencing for George Floyd's murder on 'Your World'
This is a rush transcript from "Your World with Neil Cavuto," June 25, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Two hundred and seventy months, 22.5 years. Derek Chauvin is looking at a long time in prison.
Welcome, everybody. I'm Neil Cavuto. And this is "Your World."
And minutes ago, you heard it with Martha, Derek Chauvin handed down a sentence from the judge that will keep him behind bars potentially until he's in at least his 60s. Now, there are a lot of complications and details to follow, and still more sentencing that could come down the road with new cases and other charges at the federal level.
Suffice it to say, while this range was roughly expected, now we're waiting to hear the reaction from various parties, including from the Floyd fan themselves, because Derek Chauvin speak today. We will give you the details of that.
First, I want to go to Matt Finn in Minneapolis, who has been chronicling this case from the very, very beginning, on how things are going right now.
Hey, Matt.
MATT FINN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.
Right now, peaceful in the streets. There is a semi-large crowd outside of the courthouse, dozens, if not hundreds of people. Moments ago, they were chanting "Black Lives Matter," but no protests or any rioting here in Minneapolis, as we have seen before.
Moments ago, inside of the courtroom, Judge Peter Cahill handed Derek Chauvin a 22.5-year sentence. The judge said that he did not make his ruling on emotions or on public demand. He said, instead, he based this on the rule of law. He said he's releasing a 22-page memo which will explain how he arrived at his sentencing.
The big question heading into today's hearing was whether Derek Chauvin was going to speak. In fact, he did for the first time since George Floyd's death. He never gave an interview. He did not speak during the trial. He did not testify. In fact, he was masked the entire time during the trial.
Also, perhaps one of the most profound moments in all of the proceedings, Derek Chauvin's mother gave the victim impact statement. Here is Derek Chauvin and his mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEREK CHAUVIN, CONVICTED FELON: At this time, due to some additional legal matters at hand, I'm not able to give a full formal statement at this time.
But, very briefly, though, I do want to give my condolences to the Floyd family. There's going to be some other information in the future that would be of interest, and I hope things will give you some -- some peace of mind.
Thank you.
CAROLYN PAWLENTY, MOTHER OF DEREK CHAUVIN: Derek, my happiest moment is when I gave birth to you. And my second is when I was honored to pin your police badge on you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINN: Derek Chauvin's mother also telling the judge that, based on his sentence, which is, we now, 22.5 years, that she and her husband will likely not be here if and when Derek Chauvin is released.
Chauvin's mother told the court that her son's identity has been reduced to being a racist, but her son is a good man, he's quiet, thoughtful and honorable, and the public will never know the loving and caring man that he is.
Derek Chauvin kind of giving a cryptic statement there, suggesting that or something else that might come out in the future that would give the judge some type of peace of mind.
But here in Minneapolis, Derek Chauvin now sentenced to 22.5 years. There were aggravating factors. The judge added 10 additional years to the recommended 12.5-half-year sentence, Neil.
CAVUTO: All right, Matt Finn, thank you very, very much.
Again, we're trying to figure out the comment that Chauvin was making:, there might be some information coming out eventually, but didn't really specify what that might be or how that might even change the process today or follow-up cases that could be developing, particular on the federal level.
Want to go to Ted Williams right now, FOX News contributor, former D.C. police detective, and a darn good one.
I might also add that Ted Williams -- I was listening to you earlier. You got this about right, in the range of the mid-20s to 22.5 years, which is the range this ended up being.
Explain how that would work. Would he have to -- is there any chance of early release here? Or what are the guidelines?
TED WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the guidelines normally are 10 to 15 years, Neil.
But because of the aggravating circumstances that the judge found here -- and when we use the word aggravating circumstances, we're talking about the manner in which George Floyd was murdered, to the fact that there were children around that actually saw the murder of George Floyd.
And so those were the aggravating circumstances that led to the 22.5-year sentence. But, as you have already said -- and I can tell you that Chauvin certainly with good behavior can certainly be out well before those 22.5 years.
CAVUTO: And there could be other court cases, right? I mean, he and his colleagues are also facing a number of them. Could you explain that and how that would affect what was just handed down here?
WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
The one case that Chauvin has to worry about right now is in the federal sector. Chauvin has been charged with not only violating the civil rights of George Floyd, but he's also -- there was another kid that, earlier in his police career, that he's charged with hitting with a flashlight.
And they are bringing charges in the federal system against Chauvin also. Also, as you have already represented, Chauvin's colleagues, other officers who were on the scene, who assisted or helped Chauvin to some degree, those officers are going to be on trial in about a year facing charges for helping Chauvin in this murder.
But I would expect that those defense lawyers are going to try to work out a deal. Neil, Minneapolis has suffered with this Chauvin matter for some time now. And I think all parties would be -- it would be in their best interests to work out a deal and to try to get this off the books and so people can move on with their lives.
CAVUTO: Ted, do you think Derek Chauvin helped himself with his brief comments to the judge today?
WILLIAMS: Yes, the comments were convoluted. I do not think that Derek Chauvin helped himself with the comments.
Primarily, what the judge was looking for, Neil, and he did not get, was the word remorse. That's a word that we use, a legal term, but it means getting up, taking all responsibility for your actions, and saying that you're sorry for your actions.
He showed no empathy whatsoever towards George Floyd. I heard his mother. It's heartbreaking when a mother has to get up and testify and give the testimony that his mother gave, Neil.
But the other side of this is, she will be able to go and visit her son in prison. George Floyd is not coming back. And it's all as a result of Chauvin taking his knee and putting it on this man's neck for nine-and-a- half minutes, just about.
CAVUTO: You know, Ted, I wonder, when you're talking about his mother being able to visit him in prison, he obviously won't be just any other prisoner, as he hasn't been for all the time he's been in jail.
He's been in essentially solitary confinement. I think he's only allowed out an hour every day to exercise, always by himself, always separated from other inmates. Will that likely continue?
WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely.
They have to protect George Chauvin -- or Derek Chauvin -- I stand to be corrected -- in prison. And so it's likely -- the likelihood of him remaining in solitary confinement or perhaps throughout most of his sentence is certainly going to happen, I believe, Neil.
But what is so sad about this is that a man is dead. And I think, yes, they had to look at those aggravating circumstances that the judge looked at. The mitigating circumstances here is that Chauvin is around 45 years of age. He has some heart condition. He has no criminal record.
But when you are a police officer, and you go to jail, you're definitely a target in that jail. And I think you're going to find, unfortunately, that Chauvin will be on target, even though he may very well be in solitary confinement.
CAVUTO: You know, you touched on this before, Ted, but the prosecutors wanted a much stiffer prison sentence. I believe they were looking for at least 30 years.
His own attorney, Eric Nelson, had argued that it would be best for time served or at least less than the law guidelines. So, it sounds to me that this was the middle ground struck. What do you make of that?
WILLIAMS: Yes, it was somewhat of middle ground.
I think the defense did not do themselves any good by suggesting that the judge let Chauvin walk. There was no way under the circumstances of this case that the judge was going to let Chauvin walk out of that -- out of his courtroom here today.
I think also that the defense should have found a way to put Chauvin on the stand to show some remorse. Now, Neil, what is going on here is, there's appellate issues that Chauvin have, and, by the way, some good appellate issues. And one of them may very well lead to a reversal and even a new trial.
And that is where one of the jurors went to a Black Lives Matter rally and had a T-shirt on that said, "Get off of my neck."
CAVUTO: Right.
WILLIAMS: And, as a result of, that's an excellent appeal -- or issue, I believe, for appeal.
CAVUTO: Let me ask you, finally -- I appreciate your patience, Ted, about -- you're a former detective. You're a law and order guy.
We all know what transpired after George Floyd's tragic death, but it ignited a nationwide movement toward defunding police and taking a look at how police conduct their jobs and whether they're fair to African- Americans, minorities in general.
Has this trial, and now this sentencing, 22.5 years, isolated the incident enough to say, we move on, this defunding the police movement went too far? The president himself seemed to indicate with his own crime legislation or push that we have got to find a better balance.
Where do you think this goes from here?
WILLIAMS: It's scary as to where I believe it's going from here, Neil.
I think that there are individuals out there who are going to continue to cry out for defunding a police department. There are going to be individuals who are going to be very disrespectful, unfortunately, to law enforcement officers.
And we need to understand, Neil, the broad amount of law enforcement officers in this country, they serve and protect honorably. Derek Chauvin is the exception. He is not the norm.
But defunding of the police department, that's going nowhere fast. Crime is up in this country. The crooks are standing on the side, and they're cheering. They're cheerleaders to what's going on in this country. And so, when you talk about defunding police departments, all you're doing is hurting yourself, the citizens, in these various communities.
CAVUTO: Chief and foremost was New York City last week, right, with the mayoral race going on, and the winning candidate was a 20-year police department veteran, of course, who favored cracking down on crime.
That turned out to be the number one issue for voters, Democratic voters, presumably the base, the president's party's base, who said, enough is enough.
And I'm just wondering whether we now find a happy medium.
WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know if we find a happy medium, but I can tell you the one thing we all want in our society, and that is to feel safe.
And when you don't feel safe in the society, like all with this so-called defunding the police movement, it's bad, it makes people nervous. And you're absolutely right. New York is an excellent indicator. The guy who is leading in New York, Adams, right now is talking about giving more to police officers, supporting the police officers, so police officers can support the community.
The person in second place is talking about defunding. And I don't believe anybody, anybody who's talking about defunding the police department, when crime is rising, should be the mayor of any city. So that's my own subjective feelings about it.
But I got to tell you, Derek Chauvin, a rogue police officer, a police officer who did not and does not represent the good men and women who put that uniform on every day and serve and protect us, was given 22 years. I think that justice was done in this case.
And I just would love to see Neil, one thing, the community married with the police officers against the crooks, and get them out of those various communities.
CAVUTO: Well put, Ted.
Thank you for joining us and giving us your sense of where especially this goes from here, Ted Williams, a FOX News contributor, former D.C. decorated police detective, and much, much more than that.
We are getting a statement from the Floyd family and their attorney, Ben Crump, saying: "The historic sentence brings the Floyd family and our nation a step closer to healing by delivering closure and accountability. For once, a police officer who wrongly took the life of a black man was held to account. While this shouldn't be exceptional, tragically, it is. Day after day, year after year, police kill black people without consequence. But, today, with Chauvin's sentence, we take a significant step forward, something that was unimaginable -- unimaginable a very short time ago."
One of the other things -- I'm just looking at this final part: "To achieve all of this, real lasting change in police departments from coast to coast, we need the U.S. Senate to pass the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act without further delay."
I just had to get the rest of that statement. I apologize for that.
Jonathan Turley with us right now.
Jonathan, your thoughts on that 22.5 years and where this goes.
JONATHAN TURLEY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: This was pretty much within the zone that most of us were discussing in the days preceding the sentencing. Many people wanted to see a 30-year sentence.
The baseline for this type of offense is about 150 months. And that's about 18 -- I'm sorry -- that's about 12.5. He got 22.5. So, he had 10 years tacked on, because the court had found for aggravating circumstances. Obviously, the most important is that he held this position of authority in commission of this crime.
It's important for people that realize that this is not the end of sentencing for Chauvin, because he is charged with a federal offense, as are his colleagues. Those colleagues have not been convicted. They will be tried in March. Their case is going to be more challenging for the prosecution.
But as for Chauvin himself, this may not be the full extent of his time to be served.
CAVUTO: Yes, he did seem -- that is, Chauvin -- to telegraph particular situations that will come to light.
I don't know whether he's referring to this juror who supposedly was seen in the T-shirt, get your foot off our neck -- I'm paraphrasing here -- which might be a way to just throw out the whole trial, start a new one.
What is the likelihood of something like that?
TURLEY: Well, the statement he made to the court was a bit of a head- scratcher, to say: I have something coming. It's a bit late. This is in your sentencing.
So whatever's coming is going to come after sentencing. And I can't imagine how it would bring closure to this grieving family.
There are issues in trial that are concerning, including possible juror misconduct, including whether this was the right forum, whether they should have taken this case out of the city. But none of those issues are likely to result in a reversal. Those are some of the toughest types of appeals to take.
CAVUTO: So, looking at what life will be like Derek Chauvin now -- I was just mentioning with Ted Williams, Jonathan, this idea already, for all this time in jail, he has been under -- under watch 23 hours of each day in a solitary cell. He's kept away from other inmates.
He's allowed, I believe, an hour for exercise every day. That's it. Now, will that continue?
TURLEY: It may have to continue in some form, yes.
As you know, I run a prison project for older prisoners. I spent a lot of time in federal and state prisons, unfortunately. I -- but it's very difficult for a former officer. They tend to be put under special conditions, because their lives are continually at risk, particularly for a prisoner like Chauvin. That is going to remain the case for the rest of his years.
People age faster in prison. And the fastest are ex-officer -- ex-police officers. The level of tension, the threats that they have to deal with are continual, and they're grinding. And that takes an impact on health and your mental status.
Also, the seclusion used to protect these officers is itself punishing. I have had clients that have been put into segregation for long periods of time. Only two of those clients in my entire career came out the way they went in.
Human beings need interaction. And when you're in segregation, I got to tell you, people have no idea how quickly segregation begins to impact your mental health.
CAVUTO: Did Derek Chauvin help his case at all with his brief remarks?
TURLEY: No, I -- it was one of those -- those rather odd statements that were too clever by half.
I understand if he doesn't want to make a statement to the court, but to say there's something coming that's going to be really important to you, it was almost insulting for the family. The important thing for them was the loss of their loved one. Whatever may happen with regard to Chauvin's status is -- sort of pales in comparison.
But, also, for the court, it was a head...
CAVUTO: What do you think he meant? What do you think he meant, though, Jonathan?
I'm sorry to jump on you, my friend, but what do you think he meant by that? At first, I thought this juror in question. But he seemed to have intimated something there the Floyd family is unaware of.
So, it -- he left a lot of folks scratching their head, right?
TURLEY: Yes. Yes.
Unless he's going to come up with an evil twin defense, I can't imagine what would materially change their view of him or the sentence or the case. Now, sometimes, the defense does get information after a trial that is material. But I'm not too sure why that would have a healing effect upon the family. Those are things like juror misconduct that might be grounds for an appeal.
So, I have to tell you, I'm completely at sea on this one. I don't know what he's referring to, because he said that whatever it may be will bring some solace to the family.
Now, the only thing that will bring solace to them is if he drops his appeal. I mean, that, I suppose, could bring some solace. But, otherwise, I can't imagine what he's referencing.
CAVUTO: Jonathan Turley, thank you very, very much.
We are following this story, but also following another big story right now north of Miami, that collapsed condominium development, we're keeping a very, very close eye on that.
We do know of now four dead and 159 unaccounted for there. And they're battling torrential rainstorms there.
Jonathan Serrie is in Surfside with more -- Jonathan.
JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Neil.
Yes, we just heard some thunder, another one of many storms that have -- that firefighters have been having to deal with. In addition to that, you can see the smoke behind me because of the spotty fires that crop up whenever there's any movement of the debris causing sparks.
So, firefighters really face a difficult task. But they are some of the best in the world and are certainly up to the task, as long as there is any hope of survivors.
The medical examiner's office has confirmed the identity of the first victim they recovered; 54-year-old Stacie Fang died from blunt-force injury due to the building collapse. Firefighters searching the rubble have discovered three additional bodies, bringing the death toll to four.
Authorities have confirmed that 120 residents are safe, but 159 remain unaccounted for. So, firefighters continue the dangerous task of searching the rubble.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAY JADALLAH, MIAMI-DADE FIRE RESCUE ASSISTANT CHIEF: We are listening for sounds. It's not specifically human sounds. It could be tapping. It could be steel kind of twisting.
It could be some of the debris kind of raining down. So we concentrate in those areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERRIE: Once firefighters finish the dangerous search-and-rescue process, police will conduct an on-site investigation into the cause of the collapse.
Miami FOX affiliate WSVN reports the Champlain Towers' homeowners association had recently hired an engineer for the building's 40-year recertification, but the process flagged no grave danger.
The property owner has filed a class-action lawsuit against the homeowners association, seeking more than $5 million in alleged damages to himself and other victims. His lawyer explains: "Our investigation continues, but we strongly believe this was preventable."
And, Neil, because this building that collapsed is so similar to other condominiums, not only in this city, but also neighboring communities, the mayor of neighboring Miami Beach has announced that his city will be conducting an assessment, an inventory of buildings there to see if there are any safety aspects they need to investigate -- Neil.
CAVUTO: Jonathan, do we know whether neighboring buildings have been cleared or anything like that, in light of what happened to this one, that, structurally, there might be worries there?
SERRIE: Yes, we know that the building -- the remaining portion of the building that did not fall as part of this condominium unit, they evacuated all of the residents from there as a safety precaution.
Residents in some of the nearby buildings reported that, when this building fall (sic), they actually could hear debris hitting their windows. They thought at first that it was from a storm.
And so, obviously, assessments of neighboring buildings will be part of the survey, not only looking at potential damage from this building collapse, but also looking at the structures themselves.
Were buildings built during this era, if they use common construction techniques, are they also at risk?
CAVUTO: Jonathan Serrie at Surfside, thank you.
With us now, a person you're getting very familiar with seeing. Tragically, he has updated us on all these developments over the last 36, 38 hours now, Jose "Pepe" Diaz, the Miami-Dade Board of County Commissioners chairman.
Chairman, very good to have you. And thank you for taking the time.
I'm wondering if you can update us any. I mean, I know the unaccounted-for individuals has shot up to 159. Any updates on that, sir?
JOSE DIAZ, MIAMI-DADE COUNTY COMMISSION CHAIR: Neil, first of all, thank you for having me.
The updates are coming slowly, as the progress happens on the searching. As soon as we know anything, it is immediately passed to the families as soon as we could get that information.
But, right now, this is the hard part. This is the part where we still have a lot of hope. We're praying a lot. Our guys -- as was said earlier by a reporter, that these are the very best in the world. And we're blessed that they happen to be part of our community, part of us.
So, this is -- this is not fast work. This is very slow work. You have to listen. You have to work to try to get through. And we're going from both directions, from the top down and from the bottom up. And this is something that we never thought we would see in our community. And, unfortunately, here we are.
And, again, this is the same team that goes around the world. It is well- renowned for the work they do, for the volcanoes, earthquakes, and all kinds of disasters. And we're blessed to have them working on this situation with us.
CAVUTO: So, Commissioner, when we heard reports of sound coming from the rubble, that didn't necessarily mean it was human noise.
Could you clarify that?
DIAZ: Yes. It's like a building settling. Sometimes, there's noises that happen, or a house settling. There's noises.
And the pile of debris, maybe as it settles, with all this water, all this rain -- as you see, I'm soaking wet from being out there -- it does -- some sound could come. But it could also be somebody tapping.
So, this is why we have different methods. We have our canines that are looking and are activated, are trained specially for different scents and so on. And when they hit on an area, and then we have the sonar, we have video cameras, we have every type of modern equipment to be able to perform these rescues.
And that's what they're doing. So, when they see something -- or hear something -- I'm sorry -- in an area, they try to work in that area. And as we see right now, they're working hard on the top part of the hill, what they call there, the debris mountain of all the building that fell.
But they're also working just as hard from underneath. So, sound is very important. But as you're working, and anyone's (INAUDIBLE) you're taking away from that sound that you could possibly hear.
So, it's very hard work. It's very slow. But it's very concise. And we have the very best working on it.
CAVUTO: You certainly do. And they're engaging themselves to do it. And it says a lot about them. It says a lot about you.
Commissioner, I know you're quite properly focused on this rescue effort. But I'm sure you're familiar with some of the reports that this particular building had been a concern going back years, that one Florida professor was reporting, part of an engineering group, that it was sinking two millimeters a year for a time in the 1990s. I don't know how current that is.
But have any of these issues come up, that this might have been a long-term issue?
DIAZ: You know, exactly right now, we have been so focused on trying to rescue people.
But all that is being generated, all these reports, everything. We have -- we have engineers that are well-renowned in this type of situation of buildings and especially collapsed-type buildings. We have federal from OSHA. We have state. We have our county people. We also have local for the municipalities.
All these people are working together to determine what actually took place, because, until then, we don't want to rush and say and do this, especially when we're trying to rescue people. But, at the same time, a lot of people are saying, wait a minute, what about my building? Is this going to happen to two buildings down or four buildings down or whatever by the beach and all parts of Florida and everywhere you go?
So, this is something -- I guarantee, I give you my word, this is something that's going to be investigated to the maximum level. Our homicide unit is on site working with their people and their counterparts, and engineers too also.
So, everything that we could do as far as finding out what took place...
CAVUTO: All right.
DIAZ: ... that's what we're going to do. And there will be ramifications to whatever...
CAVUTO: All right, Commissioner..
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: All right, you hang in there, sir. And try to get some sleep.
The president of the United States now wrapping up a meeting with the leader of Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have not been able to hear anything about what's happened.
How long has he been sentenced?
QUESTION: Twenty-two-and-a-half years.
BIDEN: Well, I don't know all the circumstances that were considered.
But it seems to me, under the guidelines, that seems to be appropriate.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: All right, we didn't get much out of that.
But he is meeting with the leader of Afghanistan, of course. So we are moving ahead of schedule to get our troops out of there well before 9/11, the 20th anniversary, of course, of the attacks on this country.
There have been many military critics saying that this was a precarious move and could mean, within just months, the present government being overrun by terrorist forces, the Taliban, and some of these others that you have heard so much about.
I don't know if that was addressed there with the Afghan leader. But we do know that the former Afghan leader was on the wires today on various news interviews, saying that this will be a perilous move on the part of the U.S. and one that both countries will severely regret, so keeping track of that.
Also keeping track, of course, of the Derek Chauvin sentencing today. We told you about this a little while ago, 22.5 years in prison right now for -- conceivably taking him into his 60s before he has even the remote chance of getting out of jail.
As you have heard from a number of legal experts and, of course, some of the people gathering around microphones in Minneapolis to air their reaction, most seem satisfied that this is a fair and adequate sentencing, and the country can try to move on.
But, as a number of speakers have been saying -- I have been catching their comments on the wire -- this is not a situation that is over.
So, we're following all of that and following the vice president earlier today finally going to the border. A lot of people say a lot too little and way too late, but she was there in El Paso. Many had recommended that you go really to the epicenter of all of this. And that is not El Paso.
That being said, Peter Doocy at the White House on how all of this transpired and went down today -- Peter.
PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Neil, the closest the vice president got to the actual physical U.S.-Mexico border was the inside of an administrative office at a port of entry.
It felt kind of like being at the DMV. It is where people go out if they are trying to apply for asylum legally. And that kept a lot of the focus of her trip today on people who are trying to do things the right way, as opposed to people who are not.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hope this does not sound trite or corny, that we have the capacity to give people hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOOCY: The vice president also met with a handful of young girls who are detained by Border Patrol right now. And she met with community faith leaders, including some who run shelters.
She insists this trip is -- to the border is supposed to inform her main focus, which is determining the root causes of migration, claiming that, even though it's been months since she was put in charge of fixing the immigration system, this was all part of the plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: How did you decide that right now was the right time to make your first trip to the border?
HARRIS: Well, it's not my first trip. I have been to the border many times.
QUESTION: As vice president, as the person in charge of the response.
HARRIS: So, the important aspect of this visit is leading this visit, after the work that we did in Guatemala and Mexico, because, as I have long said -- I said back in March I was going to come to the border, so this is not a new plan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOOCY: And, Neil, you mentioned it off the top. There are critics, mostly in the Republican Party, who are charging that El Paso is not where she should have come because most of the busy border crossings, the illegal crossings, are happening hundreds of miles away from here.
Democratic Congresswoman Escobar, though, who represents this area, counters. She says that busy is good, because people are coming in seeking asylum legally, and she compared El Paso to the new Ellis Island -- Neil.
CAVUTO: To the new Ellis Island, that that's become the new Ellis Island. OK.
Peter Doocy in El Paso, thank you.
DOOCY: That's the line. That's the line from the trip, yes.
CAVUTO: Yes. I understand. I apologize.
I'm so instantly thinking you're at the White House. Of course, you're there in El Paso. Thank you, Peter, very, very much.
All right, so the new Ellis Island? I wonder what Hector Garza thinks of that, the Border Patrol Union vice president.
Hector, what do you think of that, that this area is that now like Ellis Island?
(CROSSTALK)
HECTOR GARZA, VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: Yes.
Well, the U.S.-Mexico border is definitely not Ellis Island. The U.S.- Mexico border is an area that is run by cartels, abusing children, abusing women, where those single males are sneaking across the border, where cartels are bringing across dangerous drugs.
So, definitely, the U.S.-Mexico border is no Ellis Island.
CAVUTO: So, the vice president's visit today, Hector, did it change anything? Did it alter the equation a little bit?
She went there. She took it all in. What do you think she learned?
GARZA: Well, what I think, Neil, is that the equation has not changed. I think the only part of the equation that changes that -- is that Kamala Harris actually visited the border before President Trump's anticipated visit to the Rio Grande Valley, where the real problems are at.
Now, we know that, in the border in McAllen, we are seeing the epicenter of the border crisis. We just hope that Kamala Harris could have visited the Donna tent facility, where all these kids, unaccompanied alien children are being detained, where women and families units are coming across, and also for her to see the real challenges that Border Patrol agents are facing along the U.S.-Mexico border, the fact that we do not have facilities, the fact that we don't even have roads, as you know, on the border, the proper technology or the proper resources to do our job.
CAVUTO: She said several times, as she has really since given this job to address what's happening, that they want a full solution that traces the roots of the problem, hence her visit to Guatemala and Mexico and now the border.
But part of the visit to those countries involved American financial support that would presumably go to the very people who we see crossing the Rio Grande and these other positions, so that they don't have to do, that there's enough financial security at home that they don't have to come here. What do you think of that?
GARZA: Well, Neil, the -- I want say that the situation in the Northern Triangle countries like Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras, the situation -- the economic situation and the crime situation in those countries have not really changed in the past decade or the past 20 years.
Things have stayed consistent and maybe has somewhat improved. The reason people continue to come to the U.S.-Mexico border illegally is because of the changes in administration. This illegal immigration problem was solved under President Trump. And it started all over again as soon as President Biden took office.
And this is all because of the changes to immigration policies. We saw that President Biden immediately got rid of the migrant protection protocols. He made changes to the Title 42 authority that Border Patrol agents had.
So all these changes in policies is what's driving this crisis on the U.S.- Mexico border. I want to say that the root causes of immigration are actually in Washington, D.C., within the Biden administration.
CAVUTO: You know, Hector, I can't something about the Ellis Island comparison.
Say what you will. So many descendants of Americans living today, it's through Ellis Island. But there was a process for that. In fact, it was a pretty organized process, an overwhelming one, but an organized one.
So that comparison, that this is now a modern-day Ellis Island, it kind of signals how maybe this administration might want to proceed here, not a migrant swarm that's overwhelming officials, but a way eventually for them to very much get to America. What do you think?
GARZA: Yes, so it's -- again, it's not an Ellis Island.
What we're seeing on the U.S.-Mexico border is that it is people that are violating the laws of the United States, the immigration laws of the United States that were passed by Congress.
Unfortunately, in places like in the Laredo sector, we're seeing people that are coming across with very serious criminal records. Just in the Laredo sector, which is about a hundred miles north of the Rio Grande Valley, we have seen an over 1000 percent increase in the arrest of criminal illegal aliens.
Those are criminal aliens that have serious criminal records, murderers, rapists, kidnappers. That -- those are facts .We're also seeing, for example, in the Laredo sector, the increase in the apprehension of adult males.
These people are not presenting themselves for lawful immigration. They are sneaking across our borders. They're violating our laws. And, unfortunately, when we compare it to Ellis Island, it is not a fair comparison.
CAVUTO: All right, yes, I did want to pick your brain on that, Hector.
Hector Garza, thank you very much, Border Patrol Union V.P.
Very, very busy news day, as you might have surmised, but, again, the president is meeting with the leader of Afghanistan.
And our eventual plan to get all troops out of the region within a matter of weeks, well before the 9/11 White House-imposed deadline, has my next guest pretty worried, in fact, very worried -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The partnership between Afghanistan and the United States is not ending. It's going to be sustained.
And our troops may be leaving, but the support for Afghanistan is not ending.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAVUTO: Well, that's not the way a lot of U.S. military types see it, including my next guest, General Keith Kellogg, the former vice president - - Vice President Mike Pence's national security adviser, who fears that getting our troops out of there even well before the president's earlier 9/11 deadline commitment will hasten the country's problems.
General, very good to see you.
That's, in a nutshell, your worry, right, that this is speeding that process, where Afghanistan could be essentially overrun?
GEN. KEITH KELLOGG (RET.), FORMER PENCE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Yes, Neil, first of all, thanks for having me today.
Look, I kind of wish I was in that meeting today with -- fly on the wall, listened with Ghani and Abdullah Abdullah talking to the president.
But, look, to get today's meeting in context, you have to go back a little bit in time on history to get to where today, so people really understand it.
When President Trump came into office, he determined that we were going to leave Afghanistan for a lot of reasons. One, it was a never-ending war. It seemed like it was -- we had no intention of winning it. So there's no reason to be there. It was actually a civil war, with factions fighting among themselves that were there. We'd spent $30 billion a year, trillions over the last decade in there. We'd lost 2,500 great Americans there in combat, but we could see no end to it.
In fact, the previous commander there, Nicholson, before Scotty Miller was there, said it was in a stalemate, and the president didn't see a reason to stay there. So we turned to Secretary Mattis and Secretary Tillerson and McMaster and then, following that, Bolton. And he said, come up with a plan to have a negotiated settlement to come out of Afghanistan.
Well, very frankly, they kind of slow-rolled them. And it wasn't until Secretary Pompeo came in, and we put a special representative for Afghan reconstruction, Zal Khalilzad, that we actually started to work with the Taliban and have an agreement with them. And we had that agreement come together in January and February of 2020.
And the agreement was, they would not attack Americans as we had this negotiating process going on. And they kept their word. There has not been an American killed by the Taliban since February of 2020, a year ago, well over a year ago, about 16 months now.
And so we also decided in April to come up with a determination in April 2020 on how to get out of there militarily. And we bought our team into the Situation Room. Secretary Esper was there, the vice president where. I was there. Pompeo was there. O'Brien was there.
And we discussed ways to do this. We came up with three options, come out by Election Day, come out by inauguration, or come out by 1 May. And the determination by the president, President Trump at the time, was to come out by 1 May.
So we started working with the military to downsize that and to work that. That gave all of us one year to work it, one year for the military withdrawal and one year for reconciliation between Ghani and the Taliban.
To make that work, we actually went to the Pakistanis and got...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: But, by that rationing, General -- I'm sorry for our tight time.
But, by that rationing, you would have been out of there...
KELLOGG: No.
CAVUTO: ... earlier than Joe Biden.
But the difference would have been that you would have been more prepared? Is that what you're saying?
KELLOGG: No, the difference would have been is, we would have had a negotiated settlement to have a conciliation of the government -- a reconciliation of the government between the Taliban and Ghani's government out there.
Neil, the Taliban had been winning that fight for the last nine years. They have been on the offense the entire time. We have 260,000 well-trained Afghan troops there that we trained to fight in Afghanistan in their country.
And we wanted to have a reconciliation of the governments coming together to have a peaceful settlement out there. And we thought we had that worked fairly well.
And then, when we passed that to the Biden administration -- and, by the way, Neil, I think both the Trump administration and the Biden administration have this right. This is on Ghani, because Ghani has pushed back on having a negotiated settlement.
CAVUTO: Right.
KELLOGG: And the Taliban, when we talk to them, they have kind of said, look, we want to have this negotiated settlement getting out of there.
And I think we have to sit back and think hard about that as we do it. I don't know what the president was talking about...
CAVUTO: All right.
KELLOGG: ... when he was talking about having troops there and forces there, when it's going to happen.
CAVUTO: Got it.
KELLOGG: But we laid out clear marker to the Taliban, and in discussions with Baradar and President Trump, on what would happen if they didn't follow through with a good peace agreement.
CAVUTO: General, while I have you, an interesting news item from your old boss, Vice President Pence, who was saying of his effort to certify Joe Biden's victory, that: "I will always be proud of playing that part," that there was "nothing I could have done alone, as the president wished."
But, obviously, it's caused a great deal of enmity between the two men, maybe more on the president's part toward the vice president.
What did you think of what the vice president said on that, that he wants to move on, but that is still something he says he did the right thing?
KELLOGG: Yes, Neil, the Trump administration was an administration of 1,461 days. We did great things for 1,460 days. We had one bad day, and when the vice president went onto Capitol Hill and what he was -- what he did under the Constitution, and what was happening there in Washington, D.C.
And I think they have started to come together. They're talking again. They're working together again. I have seen the vice president recently, about three weeks ago. I have spoken to the president -- the former president as well out there.
I think they're coming together and working together going forward. And, hopefully, that can -- that relationship will continue. They were -- there was a great team together.
CAVUTO: When you say going together and working together, are you referring, General, to -- I'm sorry.
Are you referring to the president and the vice president, that...
KELLOGG: Yes.
CAVUTO: Because they're definitely not on the same page on that whole January 6 thing, right?
KELLOGG: But -- well, that's what I said.
CAVUTO: Yes.
KELLOGG: For 1,460 days, they were on the same page. They were working well together. And a lot of things went very, very well together. And there was a lot of great things...
CAVUTO: Understood.
KELLOGG: ... the administration did, everything from creating a vaccine in a short period of time, to the Abraham Accords in the Middle East, to taking out Soleimani...
CAVUTO: No, you're right.
KELLOGG: ... the biggest terrorist in the world, all the way around. We did some really great things.
CAVUTO: But you agree with vice president that he had no other choice? He had no other choice -- no, you did -- that he had no other choice to do what he did, that's what he was saying, and he will not change his mind?
KELLOGG: Neil, he thought -- Neil...
(CROSSTALK)
CAVUTO: And you agree with that?
KELLOGG: Yes.
Neil, he thought what he did was -- Neil, he did what he thought was right.
CAVUTO: Understood.
General, thank you very, very much, General Keith Kellogg, the former Vice President Pence national security adviser, Center For American Security, America First Policy Institute.
All right, we have a lot more coming up, including now the Justice Department going after that Georgia law on voting -- after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAVUTO: Taking you to Minneapolis right now.
George Floyd's legal team is heralding the 22.5-year prison sentence just handed down this short while ago to Derek Chauvin, who -- they say, finally, justice prevails. Many wanted even a stiffer prison sentence. Prosecutors were going for something in the vicinity of 30 years.
Andy McCarthy joins us right now.
Andy, I do want to still talk about this Georgia voting thing, but I'd be remiss if I didn't -- if I ignored the news of the day here.
What do you make of this?
ANDY MCCARTHY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's an appropriate sentence, Neil.
His sentencing guidelines, which are the ones that personally apply to him, take into account his lack of criminal history and the cruelty of his conduct, were about 12.5-years. The judge found three exacerbating factors. I think most informed observers thought that would add about a decade to the sentence, and it did.
So I think it was an appropriate sentence.
CAVUTO: Obviously, he seemed to intimate in his brief remarks today of something that might be coming available that would put some things in perspective. I'm referring to Chauvin.
Do you know what he was speaking about? It wasn't clearly this juror who was seen wearing a Black Lives Matter shirt or, I don't know, "Get your foot off my neck."
So I'm just wondering what it was he was referring to.
MCCARTHY: It's hard to tell, Neil, because he's in this dilemma where anything he says can be used against him in the federal proceedings.
CAVUTO: Right.
MCCARTHY: So, he had to be careful about making admissions.
At the same time, if he didn't at least express some remorse, I think that would have cut against him. If he's talking about closure for the Floyd family, maybe he's going to try to plead guilty and dispose of the federal case. But that's sheer speculation on my part.
CAVUTO: Interesting.
Andy, I do want to switch gears to the story we were originally scheduled to talk about, and that is the Justice Department moving in on Georgia to sue it over that new voting law. What do you make of this?
MCCARTHY: I think it's a preposterous lawsuit.
But, again, it shows that this Justice Department is putting the might of the government, which is its awesome law enforcement power, in the service of woke progressive politics.
In federal law up until five minutes ago, the preference was that people show up at the polls to vote, and, if they had a legally cognizable excuse, they could vote absentee. That's what the federal requirement is.
The idea that the Georgia provision, which vastly expands voting beyond that, somehow offends federal law is just ludicrous.
CAVUTO: So where does this go?
MCCARTHY: Well, it goes to the court. And we will be in court for a long time. If they get a progressive judge, they may win the first round, but I think, ultimately, it probably ends up in the Supreme Court.
CAVUTO: Because the reason why I ask, as you know, more than a dozen other states have or plan to continue pushing for similar laws.
Would a successful legal challenge to this one abrupt theirs?
MCCARTHY: Well, that's a great point, Neil, because it's not -- it's not so much that it would just stop them in whatever laws they pass.
States that are considering whether to enact these kinds of laws similar to one Georgia did will now have to worry about the prohibitive expense of litigating with the Justice Department. The Justice Department has a $30 billion budget. There's not too many states and municipalities that can go toe to toe with them.
CAVUTO: All right, Andy, threw a lot at you there. I appreciate all your help and guidance.
(LAUGHTER)
CAVUTO: You're lucky I didn't want to get into the UFO thing that's just come out, but I will tell our viewers about that right now.
Andy McCarthy, FOX News legal eagle, much, much more.
But as I did say, there is a report out now that finds no evidence that unexplained aerial sightings -- you have heard a lot about them -- were of extraterrestrial origin. But the government doesn't rule it out. It's issued this report that focus on these aerial phenomena that you have seen so much, including those observed by American military pilots over these many years.
It says the UFO report is one that they really can't have firm answers on, that 144 Pentagon documented sightings since 2004 are still unexplained. They said that one was attributed to airborne clutter. As for the other 143, don't know.
So, it's still out there, unidentified flying objects, either those that we couldn't recognize that might be human-made or, at least according to the government, possibly from bodies far from ours.
That's a good point to end this show and one that we will pick up on my Saturday show, as we look at all the crazy back-and-forths going on in this country and in this world, and now growing talk by no less than the United States government that there are other worlds out there, maybe.
That will do it for here.
Here comes "The Five."
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