Why John Kerry failed to broker a Mideast cease-fire

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 28, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York city and this is "The Five."


PERINO: Secretary of State John Kerry arrived back in Washington yesterday after a week of negotiations that failed to result in a permanent cease-fire between Israel and Hamas.

Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says brokering peace will be impossible if Hamas continues on its current path.


CHARLIE ROSE, TV HOST: Do you want to close this with the state of Israel? Do you want to represent -- do you want to recognize Israel as a Jewish state

HAMAS LEADER (through translator): No. I said I do not want to live with a state of occupiers.


PERINO: Sorry. That was Hamas leader who was rejecting the idea of an Israeli-Jewish state.

Listen now to Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel.


BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Hamas has broken five cease-fires that we accepted and we actually implemented. They rejected all of them, violated all of them, including two humanitarian cease-fires in the last 24 hours. Now they come with their own cease-fire proposal and believe it or not they violated even their own cease-fire proposal. They are shooting at us as we speak.

So, Israel is not obliged and is not going to let a terrorist organization determine when it's convenient for them to fire at our cities, at our people. We'll take the necessary action to protect our people, including, by the way, continue to dismantle the tunnels. That's my policy.


PERINO: Hamas has another weakness. The fledgling support of the Palestinian people who are war-weary after Hamas' provocations caused Israel to respond. And I just want to play one more sound bite for you from Representative Mike Rogers who this morning talked about how Israel feels like they are going at this alone.


REP. MIKE ROGERS (R), MICHIGAN: I think there's always been a little bit of friction between Netanyahu and this administration, and I think early on, some of the, some of the early cease-fire requirements didn't recognize at least in Israel's perspective didn't recognize their security concerns about them continuing anti-tunneling operations. With that lack of consideration, I think they believe they were going this alone.


PERINO: Eric, let me start with you. I want to ask about the idea that Israel who said it was willing to do a cease-fire but then Hamas broke its own cease-fire, how are they supposed to negotiate and work what is a terrorist organization that doesn't think that they have a right to exist?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I -- it's baffling. The only way I can see anything coming out of that as far as a cease-fire and resolution would probably be through someone else, through Egypt, through another country.

The United States -- what John Kerry did was laughable. On one hand, we have a recognized terrorist organization in conflict with one of our greatest allies if not our greatest ally and the deal that Kerry put together Friday night that came out number one, Israel lift its Gaza blockade. Number two, we supply billions of foreign aid to the Palestinian Authority. Number three, Hamas is not required to dismantle their tunnel system or their missile set ups.

I mean, it was all -- everything Hamas wanted so, of course, Saturday morning Israel says, you know, we're not playing this game. Hamas fires the first shot, Israel continues.

If -- I'm just trying to figure out, the Obama administration thinks this is where the American people are, I don't. I think the American people recognize, don't forget there's 1300 or 1,200 Palestinians who are dead now. How many thousands of people have Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda, Iranian terrorists killed? I mean, compare that to the Israeli numbers, not 1,300.

PERINO: That's a good transition for my question for Bob about the clarity of war for the Gaza people. Regardless of what the Israelis want and the Americans want, the Gazans themselves are starting to realize maybe Hamas is not the savior they were hoping to it be and that they are actually using Gaza civilians as targets in its war with Israel.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You know, that's what happened when the PLO sort of broke off from Hamas and established themselves in the West Bank area. So, I'm not surprised. I mean, at a certain point these people are the once suffering because Hamas is using them for their own shield, if you will.

But let me go back to Kerry for a second. There's not been a successful U.S. negotiation trying to get cease-fires in the Middle East, as far as I know, since Jimmy Carter at Camp David. The United States has a miserable track record of doing this because the United States is part of, or at least perceived to be, by the Arabs as part of the problem.

And so, I'm not so sure that it ought to be done that way. Eric might be right. Egypt tried to do a cease-fire. It didn't work. I see that the U.N. Security Council gave a unanimous resolution to cease and desist. It wasn't binding.

And so, I'm not so sure. It's time for the United States to make it clear that they -- as I said on Friday, I think they have to make it clear that Israel is getting the bad end of this. But put it in someone else's hand because I also don't think it's a successful thing for us to do.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Can I follow up on that if I may?


GUILFOYLE: How is this going to work? Because I hear what you're saying. I don't think it's the person doing the ask or trying to meet in the middle. I don't even think it's not a problem because it's the United States that might be behind it and see us as more pro-Israel or sympathizers for Israel.

Hamas in its charter calls for the destruction of Israel. They refuse to recognize Israel. They don't want Israel to exist. That's like a deal- breaker right out from the get go. So, how is Israel who is trying to negotiate in good faith but as you see Netanyahu pointing out Hamas violates the cease-fires that they propose this is a very difficult situation, no matter who's at the table. I don't think they are doing it because it's us, is my point.

BECKEL: I think part of it is that. But I think the answer to that is that Israel needs to do a two-state resolution with the PLO in the West Bank territories. That's where -- and let Gaza continue to fight. Eventually, they're going to be war weary and they're not going to be able to get enough missiles.

But we have to accept the fact that Gaza should not be part of a new Palestinian state.

PERINO: OK. Let me get Greg in here.

You can probably -- I like it when you go last in the first-round because --


PERINO: --you can clarify everything for us. I just want to get your take because maybe you want to talk about this. The media's perception of how the war is going. I've watched network news last night. I was really surprised because what was being reported online didn't seem to match what was being said on television and in some ways, the media is saying that Israel is actually losing the longer war and so, they are trying to say that they are not in a strong position.

GUTFELD: Yesterday, I think Candy Crowley said Israel is losing the media war.

PERINO: Right, exactly.

GUTFELD: She's in the media. She's essentially self-fulfilling. She's saying it and she's in the media.

John Kerry doesn't inspire confidence. He inspires sleep apnea. I don't understand why as we have radicals rampaging -- running around the world killing innocent people we have decided to broker a deal which actually hog-ties Israel. I believe Israel should go it alone in the sense they should be allowed to win.

Cease-fire only helps a weak aggressor. It's like a referee separating two brawlers when one is losing when in fact you should stay out of it and let the fight end quickly. That's more merciful, because right now a cease-fire is just a speed bump -- a speed bump that slows and lengthens the suffering.

You cannot trust the untrustable. These are people violating their own cease-fires. They call a time-out and then they punch you in the face. You can't trust that. These are not mouse-keteers (ph). They're musketeers.

PERINO: That's actually an interesting thing, Eric. I want your take on this, because there have been flare ups like this before. But we've talked about them. But Israel says this is somewhat different in that even their intel which is very good and ours, did not understand the extent to the sophistication of the tunnels that Hamas has been able to build and they were planning a major disruption, major terrorist attack with the aim of killing thousands of Israelis on Rosh Hashanah.

Does not Israel have an obligation to its people then to destroy those tunnels?

BOLLING: Absolutely they do. They now have an obligation. They have the right to do it.

So, the media war that you talked about -- this afternoon on MSNBC, I couldn't believe they started using a new term called proportionately. In other words --

PERINO: Yes, disproportionate.

BOLLING: Right, disproportional deaths on one side and attacks. Israel is too strong for the opposite, the aggressor. And what they are trying to do is they're trying to spin the debate against Israel which is absolutely, absolutely foolish. There's no reason that Israel shouldn't go in there and destroy all these tunnel structures.

Here's what really needs to happen. On one side, you have Egypt. On the other side you have Jordan.

So, what allegedly was going on is in the Gaza Strip the Palestinians or Hamas was bringing terrorists, whatever, guns, kidnappings through the tunnels from Jordan. You need to stop it.

BECKEL: No, no, no.

BOLLING: Through Egypt and Jordan, sure, Bob. There's only two other sides. One is water, the other is Israel.

BECKEL: I don't want to correct you but Jordan is --

BOLLING: Yes. But they were saying they were bringing people -- tunnels under the border and getting people from Jordan --

BECKEL: All the way --

BOLLING: Absolutely, Iran and Syria are supplying missiles. Laugh all you want.

BECKEL: I'm not laughing.

BOLLING: After the show, you can Google it or call the brain room and find out. Iran and Syria were providing military weaponry, including missiles through Jordan, through the tunnels.

BECKEL: OK, this was the question I was going to raise, is really where do these missiles come from. We know they come from the Iranians.

BOLLING: Iranians and Syrians.

BECKEL: And perhaps the Syrians. I just don't know how they get in. I mean, you can't tunnel under Israel to do that.

PERINO: Well, we know there are tunnels.

BECKEL: But there are tunnels in Gaza. That's right.

PERINO: Let me ask you, Kimberly, as a negotiator. So, the United States is somewhat of a third-party but an active one in this.


PERINO: John Kerry as a senator wasn't really known as a great negotiator. He's trying to establish some sort of a peace deal. That was recognized as a major failure across the board. So, then, we're back to the drawing board and now, the war started.

If you're John Kerry's team what's the best negotiating position for him at the moment? Is that to stay quiet for a while, or to work more behind the scenes? Because he has made everybody in the region mad.

GUILFOYLE: He certainly has. He's poking the cage a lot and not getting a good result. I think he's in a very difficult position as we talked about earlier to try to broker some kind of negotiation or peace between two sections that don't want peace. They both feel they are in the right.

And then the problem I think is you've got to go behind-the-scenes, like you said, to put some support and pressure in that area, in a way that he thinks would be meaningful because Khaled Meshaal is a $2.5 billion estimated net worth. This is a guy who is sitting in a luxury hotel in Qatar, completely removed and profited off the misery and suffering of Gazans. He has no motivation to even try to broker peace because he doesn't have to. So, get to that guy.

PERINO: We're going to have to tease.

I just want you to know that there's an intricate map being drawn at the table, a collaborative effort between Beckel and Bolling.

BOLLING: We're going to have a bet.

PERINO: I don't know if we can bring you the results before the end of the show.

But when we come back, Islamic militants have Christians terrified for their lives in Iraq and pressure is mounting on President Obama to address the deepening crisis. Iraqi Christians were at the White House protesting, and we've got the video, next on "The Five."


GUILFOYLE: On "The Five," we've been highlighting the persecution of Christians in Iraq and other parts of the world at the hands of radical Islamic militants. The calls are coming to the guess of the White House as pressure continues to grow for the Obama administration to address this dire issue.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help the Christians in Iraq.

CROWD: Help the Christians in Iraq!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help them before it's too late.

CROWD: Help them before it's too late!


GUILFOYLE: This message also reached Capitol Hill where Republican Virginia Congressman Frank Wolf this had message for President Obama about what he sees as the ethnic cleansing of Christians.


REP. FRANK WOLF (R), VIRGINIA: There's no doubt about it, religious cleansing is continuing to occur in Iraq. The Christian property has been seized, looted and given to others.

The president of the United States needs to speak out. Time is of the essence. We cannot afford to wait any longer. Christianity as we now know it is being wiped out before our very eyes in Iraq.


GUILFOYLE: Very impassioned statement there and one that I think has been a long time coming, somebody taking this issue out on the forefront, Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, murderous behavior is exacerbated by our passivity. If you look around the world, you look at ISIS, you look at Boko Haram, the anti-Semitism which is now being expressed here in our own country and abroad.

As long as you keep saying it's not our fight, that's music to madmen's ears. And you're going to be left with basically two worlds. One is going to be Islamic conquest, and expansion, which is incredibly patient and willing to take centuries. And the other world is inevitable but highly fortified United States, we'll be living in a dome because as long as we don't take the fight to terror the terror will inevitably come to our shores.

So, if you want to sacrifice world travel and your spring breaks abroad, you better learn -- you're going to have to build your defenses here if you're not going to go out and fight what's out there in the world.

GUILFOYLE: Like Israel. They have to build their defenses and now they are in a tenable position.


PERINO: Well, one of the articles here from "The Washington Times" is the lead says that hundreds of outraged Iraqi Christians staged a really outside the White House.

Christians are slow to anger, I think, and this is my perception. I'm sure that there are others who would disagree. I think they are slow to anger but I think they are alarmed. That's why you don't see a lot of Christians necessarily going protests a lot. But I think this is a cry for help.

Interesting to me the reports out today that about over a year ago, the Iraqi government was asking for help to try to do these air strikes against ISIS before it got a foothold. Now we're at a point where they have such a foothold there might not be anything more we can do. I would still do the airstrikes but I'm not calling the shots.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Eric, how do you see it? How serious is this situation and what should we do in the U.S. about it?

BOLLING: Here's the thing about radical Islam. If you don't believe in their God, you don't worship the way they worship, you get either persecuted, exiled or murdered, whether you're a Christian in Iraq or you're a Jew in Israel. It's the same thing. They treat you the same way.

If you don't believe in the Koran you're an infidel. Think about this for one second -- there's 1.3 billion Muslims in the world. The estimates are somewhere between 15 percent and 25 percent of them could be radicalized. If it's only 10 percent, 10 percent that's 130 million people who want to wipe out western civilization.

Here's why Israel is so important. In Israel's constitution they are required to protect Christians from persecution. That's why that little country of Israel is so important in the Middle East where everybody else is trying to wipe out Christians.

GUILFOYLE: Which begs the question, you know, what else can we do to support them given this is in their Constitution? Given that they are --

BOLLING: Certainly not come up with an idea that helps Hamas only and nothing for Israel.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Bob, you've been very vocal about this issue.

BECKEL: I agree with Eric. I mean, the definition for them is that if you don't believe in the Koran then you really don't have a faith.

Now, let's keep in mind that the three great religions, I use that in quotes occur, within 100 square miles of each other. Israelis, Jewish religion, the Christian religion --

GUTFELD: Scientology.

BECKEL: No, that was way over here -- and the Muslims. They all, believe it or not, all worship the same God. The difference is that the Jews are waiting for the messiah to come, we believe -- those of us who are Christians believe that Christ came, and they believe that Mohammed was the one who is the messenger to God.

Now, it seems to me that -- it's not just Obama and I couldn't agree more. They should be saying where they should be doing. I'm not sure what they can do. But let's assume that at a minimum they could say something. But they're not alone.

You know, when Cameron came out and talked about Christianity and doing away with Christians in Muslim territory, he was besieged by people by the press and others because of that. And I give him a lot of credit for doing that.

Where are the rest of the European allies? Where is the Catholic Church? Where is the Christian church -- where are the Protestant churches? I don't still hear anybody speaking out.

It's outrageous to me. These people are being absolutely -- it's not genocide. It's -- you might as well be taken to the death chambers in World War II.

GUTFELD: You are seeing believe it or not Muslims finally getting upset over ISIS because basically they are hijacking that religion. But your question is if no one ends this, then where does it end?

GUILFOYLE: Where does it go?

GUTFELD: Where does it end? It ends at your door step.

You know, radical Islam to me is like the Yul Brynner character in "West World." He was a cowboy that continued to follow you relentlessly until he killed you. That's what radical Islam is. They are in no rush. They have a singular purpose in basically taking control of everything. If we don't address that goal, we will address it down the road.

GUILFOYLE: But it's true. That's why this policy -- if you can kind of call it one -- of disengagement is not one that is smart in terms of a world view in going forward.

All right. Coming up, are American voters feeling buyer's remorse? Find out what would happen if the 2012 elections were held today, and what that says about President Obama's leadership in the wake of all these crises? When "The Five" returns.


GUTFELD: According to a CNN poll, Romney would beat Obama in a rematch. That's no surprise. An empty tube of poly grip could beat Obama.

Call it nationwide buyer remorse. We bought a lemon and when we drove it off the lot, it fell apart. I bet even Obama is having second thoughts about Obama. But now, his defenders are whining. What would you guys have done instead?


BILL MAHER: But what should Obama be doing that would make Putin respect him because he's slapped all these sanctions on him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's called leadership.

MAHER: It's called leadership. Remember what I said be specific.


MAHER: See it's called leadership.


MAHER: Excuse my French, but what the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) does that mean? It's called leadership.


GUTFELD: So you're asking for our help now? Too late. He's your mess now.

Fan boys like Maher demand answers, something never demanded from Obama, hope and change was always enough.

But solutions actually abound. Energy independence, increased defense, tax reform. But if you like that stuff, you wouldn't have voted for captain happy pants golf pro to begin with.

It's fun to see Obama nuts writhe as the dream dies. It's like a 10- year-old realizing Santa Claus is really his drunk uncle, the hard way.

They claimed it's not Obama's fault, but each crisis demanded presence, which the president delivered at fundraisers. And so, one looks at Putin, a stoic, oblivious to world opinion while pursuing national popularity. Then, there's Obama, oblivious to national opinion, pursuing world popularity.

It's time for a freaky Friday switch. The soul of one inhabits the other and everything from borders to pipeline to external threats fall in line. Think nationally and not globally, and it all makes sense -- which is why Obama doesn't get it.

GUILFOYLE: Could you imagine if Putin was in charge? Pipeline, stat, but --

GUTFELD: 2016 is about return to nationalism. It's about thinking about America first and not globally.

But, K.G., what do you think about this rematch? That's not much of a surprise, right?

GUILFOYLE: I've been dreaming about this. At night before I go to bed, I light a candle and think what my life would be like with Romney. It looks pretty good.

BOLLING: As president.


GUILFOYLE: As commander-in-chief.

Listen, this is not surprising to me. This reflects the polls and what we've seen coming along people have a growing disillusionment with President Obama. Make fun of it if you want but people do want leadership. It's really true.

Leadership does mean something. I think it's a word that has value attached to it. Someone who is going take charge. Not operate from behind. Get behind the wheel of the car, not sit in the back seat -- so that not only your allies but enemies show a healthy amount of fear and respect.

Could Romney have done that? Perhaps. I think he would have been very helpful with the economy and I would have hoped he would have had a firmer hand with respect to foreign policy and had some kind of a world view about it that would be helpful.

GUTFELD: But, Dana, Hillary would still cream him. According to the same poll, I think Hillary would beat Romney in double digits. Is that because they haven't seen enough of Hillary?

PERINO: I think that is further proof in year six of any presidency, pretty much anybody could beat you because you just become unpopular and you wear on people's nerves. They are tired of seeing you in their living room.

And then, I happen to disagree with you. I think that the next election could be about nationalism except, of course, it's not. If there are reasons around the world for it not to be, and then you have a whole different election on your hands.

GUILFOYLE: Like what? What do you mean by that?

PERINO: Well, I mean, if it -- if concerns across the Middle East and northern Africa or even in Asia escalate to a point where you need to have a different kind of president in office, then your domestic -- what you just said, though, is that if you don't act globally...


PERINO: ... things are going to happen to you locally.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: And so you have to think locally so that you don't have the global problems. Like am I following you?

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And terrorists take the path of least resistance. They will come to our door.

GUTFELD: Eric, is it still amazing, though, that 44 percent still would have voted for Obama, even though -- I mean, that's...?

BOLLING: And his approval rating is, like, in the tank right now, and his disapproval is off the charts.

So Bill Maher asked Matt Kibbe. He's a great guy. FreedomWorks is a fantastic group, but he wasn't ready. Matt wasn't ready. He wasn't ready with the answer. So here's what you do. You go -- next time he invites you on, here's your ideas. Start some sanctions on Russia. You've got oil sector. You have a capital sector, where they need to borrow money to build out their infrastructure. And you have a defense sector. Put clamps on all three of those sectors. Sanctions work. Ask Iran. And that's how you do it without putting (ph) any -- everyone hates boots on the ground. You get that. That's how you send a message to not only Putin but the rest of the world. America means business, and we will take your oil -- oil revenues away from you if we need to.

GUILFOYLE: You don't think anybody thinks that now, though? I mean, there are...

BOLLING: The Obama administration are going to -- they're trying to make nice everywhere. They don't -- no, they don't want to pick a fight.

GUILFOYLE: This hasn't even slowed down.

BECKEL: Every president. Go on back from Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton, every one of them were beaten in polls by the people that they beat.

PERINO: Is that true with Reagan?

BECKEL: In Reagan's case, it was, yes. Because no, not in '84. Hell no. We couldn't have -- we couldn't have beaten him, just the same. I was talking the last three presidents had...


BECKEL: ... two terms. They all were beaten in polls worse than this, by the way, by the person who ran against him. So that's a bull-"S" poll. The thing that I would say is...

GUTFELD: You invented a new word.

GUILFOYLE: What was that word?


BECKEL: Something that can keep me out of trouble.

GUTFELD: I know.

BECKEL: But...

GUILFOYLE: Bob-speak.

BECKEL: ... the issue about leadership. You're right. There's something to be said about the word "leadership" and how people -- how people define you as a leader, and Obama does not get that definition.

However, what Maher raised, and despite what Eric said, the United States was the first and only country to throw any kind of sanctions on Russia. The Europeans wussed out. It has been a problem here. It is very difficult in this new world of ours, minus the Cold War, to try to get allies who have an interest in developing their own countries to go against the Soviet Union or the Christians -- I mean, for other countries in the Middle East to go against the Muslims. It is not something one president can do.

GUTFELD: All right. We've got to go. Directly ahead, what do legalizing pot, Steven Colbert and Spider-Man have in common? They're all back in my apartment. No, they're all in Eric's "Fastest Seven" when "The Five" returns.


BOLLING: Welcome back to the fastest seven minutes in news. Three seductive stories, seven spirited minutes, one (UNINTELLIGIBLE) happy host.

First up, the old gray lady is going senile. The New York Times shocked many this weekend with an editorial that was pro-pot legalization. That I would agree with, but wasn't it the same New York Times editorial page that was against smoking tobacco? So which is it, New York Times? You're for pot smoking but against cigarette smoking? I'm confused. So is John Karl.


JON KARL: Your editorial page has been on the forefront of limiting tobacco use. I mean, you praised Michael Bloomberg over and over again for his efforts in New York City. Why are you so tough on tobacco and so easy on cannabis?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a local decision; it wasn't made by Congress, which is really important. And the other is that tobacco use kills you. The medical evidence on marijuana is completely different.


BOLLING: Greg, can you tell us what he said?

GUTFELD: I have no idea. That was New York Times speak. But in the -- we have this crisis atmosphere. This is the stance the New York Times throws all their weight behind. It just -- you know what they are? They're like a divorced dad, showing up at his son's beach party with a bong going, "Hey, guys." It's so irrelevant. It's so behind the times. We've moved on from this. There's so many problems in the world, and this is what the New York Times is focusing on. What a bunch of losers.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on the hypocrisy?

PERINO: However, I do think that the prison reform issue and the question of who should be -- should people be arrested for having medical marijuana, and the federal -- the federal and state relationships need be more in line with one another.

Count me as a skeptic when it comes to legalizing marijuana. But I do think that their editorial was fairly well-thought-out. I just thought it was interesting on "NBC Nightly News" last night, they interviewed two young women -- not a representative example, I realize -- two young women who said they're not for it. They don't think it's a good idea. So I think it's going to take a little while for people to catch up.

But in Alaska and Oregon, they will have referendums this year, and it will be a huge turnout motivator for the Democrats.

BECKEL: Bob, can they be pro-pot and anti-tobacco?

BECKEL: Yes. Because they think that tobacco kills you, which you know, there's a lot of scientific studies that does. Marijuana we know does not. But the only question I have about marijuana is, given the strength of it now, is it and does it lead to the use of other drugs? That...

GUILFOYLE: You think yes?

BECKEL: I think it does.


BECKEL: I don't think that you can compare the two. I think it's just -- one is a known carcinogenic. And the other one is not.

GUILFOYLE: If you're not into brain cells, I guess it's fine. I mean, you know, look, let people do what they want. Make their individual choices in life. I come from a perspective -- from a different perspective. But we kind of arrive at the same conclusion. I saw a tremendous amount of people start out with marijuana escalate into other drugs, and I don't like that progression.

BOLLING: Quick round on this one. Next up, Steven Colbert will take over for Letterman at "The Late Show" next year. Today CBS announced "The Late Show" will stay right here in New York City. That decision earned Colbert's program $11 million in tax credits and another 5 million in grants. Look, I'm all for the tax credits. I get it. But here's the thing: Do we really need to incentivize a show with grants that was never really considering leaving? K.G., what about it?

GUILFOYLE: Snookered. Yes, yes. I mean, I don't know. Like, their motivation, I guess. Do you think he really wanted to leave New York City and go to...? I don't think so. And is it that big of an incentive to keep a show like that here, I mean, in terms of dollars and cents?

BECKEL: No, no, no. They weren't going anywhere. They were going to refurbish the Sullivan theater, the old Sullivan theater, because everybody who's artsy in this city wants to see it refurbished. They used this as an excuse. And the other thing was that Jay Leno's old show was coming here anyway. Because that's what that guy was.

BOLLING: Yes, I think Kimmel got 20 million in incentives. Tax incentives.

PERINO: The Democrats lately have been talking a lot about economic patriotism, but I see it as let every city try to fight for it, and may the best city win. And if New York City has the best deal, then they get to win. Free market.

BOLLING: The difference being the tax. All the tax incentives you want to give. I'm all for that.

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem right there.

GUTFELD: I love seeing rich white guys subsidized in Manhattan, pricing out all the little guys. God bless the .0001 percent.

You know, each of us here, if you look at the 12 million, gave him a couple of dollars. And I'm glad it went to Colbert, somebody who really, really needs it and not some bum on the street, begging.

BOLLING: Speaking of that, I can't tell you how man Elmos, Homer Simpson, naked cowboys, naked cowgirls, naked black cowboys and naked cow grandmas I've been exposed to in Times Square. Too many. That's for sure.

But they're usually smelly, tattered, annoying, and never sanctioned by the Disneys and FOXs of the world. Sometimes they even behave badly. Check out this Times Square Spider-Man. Took a swing at a cop. Bad idea. Let's just say this spider got squashed.

Greg, your thoughts on this -- I mean, a swing right there.

GUTFELD: You know what's incredible about this? Panhandling is bad. Unless they're in a costume, and then you can let them hug your kids.

The issue here is it's a great gig. You can intimidate tourists into giving you lots of money, because you're in a costume. It's partially the tourists' fault, because they put up with this, because they have a story now. They get to go home, and they say, "Spider-Man just grabbed my butt." And that's a story. But this is awful. If you walk through Times Square, it's the wild west in costume.

BOLLING: K.G., can I bring you in here?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Are those rubber pants or some kind of thing?

BOLLING: Regulate these guys in Times Square.

GUILFOYLE: Should we regulate them? Look, you have a lot of children that want to see -- look, when I went down there with Ronan, he wants to take a picture, you know, with the Spider-Man. Then you feel bad, like, "No, no, let's not do it." And then you give in.

So that I have a concern about, because now it's become quite popular. It's overrun. Kind of crazy. And you have people that God knows what they're up to that are doing that and assaulting cops. So it's -- we may be getting to that point.

BOLLING: Plus all these comments...

GUILFOYLE: And forget the petty cash.

BOLLING: ... and Disneys. They're violating a lot of copyright laws.

PERINO: Maybe what they should do is say you're welcome to be in this area from "X" block to "Y" block. So you can be there. And then, as a tourist or a resident, you don't want to see them, you can avoid those areas. But I -- I work very hard at not looking like a tourist. Doesn't always work, but I try.

BOLLING: You actually like these Elmos.

BECKEL: Not at all. Not at all. I think most of them are drug addicts and drunks. But...

PERINO: How do you know? That's not true. A lot of them are just trying to feed their families.

BECKEL: That's not so. A lot of these people have records. That guy that they knocked down has records; he's has been in jail before.

And I know that -- that naked cowboy guy is just a pain in the butt. And the other thing is that the naked cowgirls are the ugliest broads I've ever seen. And I think what they ought to do is they ought to have -- like everybody else, they ought to have to get city licenses in order to practice. Do you not forget it was only a month ago when someone beat up a woman or hit a woman because she wouldn't give him money?

BOLLING: I've got to tell you, sometimes in the subway when Elmo takes the top off it's a scary sight. You don't want the kids to see that one.

All right. Up next, conservative columnist George Will gets some backlash after offering a surprising solution to the border crisis. Is the criticism fair or does he have a point? Details coming up.


BECKEL: No surprise, I usually disagree with those on the right side of the aisle, but here's a refreshing example of common sense from conservative columnist George Will on how we should hand tell thousands of unaccompanied children at the border.


GEORGE WILL, CONSERVATIVE COLUMNIST: We ought to say to these children, "Welcome to America. You're going to go to school and get a job and become Americans." We have 3,141 counties in this country. That would be 20 per county. The idea that we can't assimilate these 8-year-old criminals with their teddy bears is preposterous.


BECKEL: I want to just -- let me just start here. I couldn't agree with George Will more. The problem, of course, is if you do that is it invites more people to come into the country. I know more children; I understand.

But if you do secure the border in a way that we find that acceptable, he's absolutely right. The idea of sending children back. We can take these kids in. For the most part if you find a criminal or two there, send them back home. Most of these are kids. We can take them in. We've been doing it for -- since the founding of this country. And the idea that we would turn them away is almost -- it's hatred. Disgusting.

GUTFELD: Bob, that's not what he said. He implemented some simple math that made it sound like it was not a big deal. But he missed the primary point. It's illegal. You have to get in line.

What he said is insulting to everybody who legally immigrated, including my wife, who had to fill out a lot of paperwork and wait a long time to get in line.

So, George, George loves baseball. He writes books about baseball. You see him in the stands. I think he's a Chicago Cubs fan. Not sure.

What if I bring a family to your luxury box and demand that they sit there in front of you, and they haven't paid? No big deal. Right? It's only 162 games. There are plenty of seats. No, you would have me escorted out. People wait in line, George.

And he implies that being against this is against immigration. No, it's against illegal immigration. He was trying to score not common sense points but points of compassion. And it failed.

BECKEL: Everybody who's for bringing undocumented workers here, they want them behind the line. That would be -- the last person...

GUTFELD: That's not what he said.

BECKEL: Well, that's how he says, what I say. Go ahead, what do you think?

BOLLING: I'm trying to figure why George Will went there. I mean, he calls himself a conservative columnist. It's just kind of shocking when I heard him say it. I disagree with him vehemently. I agree with Greg. They break the law when they come across, they've got to go back, get in the back of the line. If you want to make it a bigger line, then make it a bigger line. You want more booths.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: You know, to wait your turn in, more tellers to take your information and make you a legal immigrant. Fantastic. I get beat up for saying this. I'm for quadrupling the legal immigration into the country.

I mean, it's one to four million, one to four. But so what? You let four million people in, it's good for the economy. It's good for things. But do it legally so you can...

BECKEL: There's not a bill on Capitol Hill or anybody that's come up that does not put them at the back of the line and make them pay.

PERINO: That's not what he said.

BECKEL: That's not what he said.

PERINO: I think the reason that I followed George Will for so long is that he is a conservative columnist who speaks his mind. And so I think he was speaking from the heart; I think he believed this. I do -- of course we could pick apart the feasibility of it, but what if other parents send their kids here. And then what are we going to do?

But at the core that he is saying we're a compassionate nation. I think we can absorb these kids. I don't think it's inconsistent with his conservative views. It might be out of step with, if you were going to run for office in certain districts. But I think he's just speaking his mind.

And he doesn't have to do the governing part. Right? It's easy to make statements like that, but then putting it in practice is much more difficult.

GUILFOYLE: Right. I mean, look, his heart is in the right place, and I applaud him for speaking his mind. However, we are a nation of laws, and we work for a good reason. We have this order, we have this structure so that the laws are respected, and people should come in and follow rules like others have before them. I'm a big believer in that.

And then also you have to be more realistic. It's not so simple as putting 20 kids in each of the counties that we have and it solves the problem.


GUILFOYLE: There's been a slight drop because it's the hot time of the year in the desert, everything there. So you're going to see the numbers drop-off. Wait until it gets a little bit cooler. I think you're going to see it rise again.

And you have to think about the long-term impact and the needs of these children, many of which have been reported to be special needs, developmental challenges. They're going to need special care and attention. And what about the parents?

BECKEL: All right. The only thing I would say is I wish we would spend so much time at Boston Logan, get the Irish that come in here illegally every week and never go home. And coming across the Canadian border, because they're all white.

GUILFOYLE: What's wrong with you?

GUTFELD: We're racists! We're racists, everybody!


PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing." I'm going to kick it off with a story about a kid named Sean Mendez. He's 26 years -- I'm sorry, a 15- year-old. He's from Canada. And all of a sudden over the weekend, his song that he played on social media ended up as No. 1. Take a listen to Sean Mendez.

I think we have it. We might have it. How could we not have it? This is the thing about music.

GUTFELD: I love it.

PERINO: OK. Anyway, I guess you can go online, because it's No. 1 iTunes. No, I can't sing it. I would be terrible. I'm sorry, Sean. I was going to help you retain that status. Now hopefully, everybody will go and see it just out of curiosity.

GUTFELD: He takes a nice picture.

PERINO: OK. Kimberly, save the segment.

GUILFOYLE: I shall. OK. Just when you thought you didn't have enough Peyton Manning in your life, and you wonder at night, before you go to bed, can the man dance, well, take a look at this. Tis is Peyton himself at training camp in Doug (ph) Valley, Colorado, doing the Tennessee fight song, "Rocky Top," and he's dancing it out. Thank God he can throw the ball.

PERINO: Kind of.

GUILFOYLE: His dancing is better than I thought it would be. I like his wide stance.

PERINO: OK, Greg, you're next.

GUTFELD: Take a look at this. No, I'm just kidding. I don't have anything.


GUTFELD: I hate these people!


GUTFELD: They had that set up. All right. New study finds that fist pumps are cleaner than handshakes and high fives; prevents the spreading of germs. It's 1/20 the amount of bacteria, knocking knuckles, as compared to a handshake.

I hate -- I don't hate people to fist bump. I just believe a strong hand shake is a great way to figure out strong character. And when you're eliminating the handshakes, you're eliminating one avenue to figure out what the person is like.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, so do they say that high fives aren't...

GUTFELD: I hate high fiving. I don't like fist bumps. You've got to have a strong handshake. Whenever there's a weak handshake, it's a weak person.

PERINO: Gross. Can't stand it. OK, Eric, you're up. No, no, no. I'm going to go Bob first. Bob, you go first.

BECKEL: This is the end of this week begins August, and August is the day that most kids who are going to college start off. And my daughter is leaving for Colorado. This is her graduation picture. It's going to be very, very difficult.

And I think every parent out there who's going through what I'm going through right now, which is not very easy, will agree with me. But let them go. They have -- they have a world in front of them. And I wish them all the luck.

GUILFOYLE: God bless her, and congratulations, Bob.

GUTFELD: That's great. She has friends.

PERINO: Maybe we can take a road trip and go see her.

GUILFOYLE: Can we go visit?

PERINO: Road trip.

GUTFELD: Where, in Boulder, right?

PERINO: No, no, no. Let's not do Boulder. An exit nearby.

GUTFELD: Why do you hate Boulder?

PERINO: I don't hate Boulder. I just don't think we'd be very welcome there.

GUTFELD: Dana hates Boulder.

PERINO: I'm right.

BOLLING: That's why we should go there, so we can enlighten the...

GUILFOYLE: Let's change hearts and minds, Dana.

BOLLING: Speaking of changing hearts and minds, good transition. A federal judge struck down a ban in D.C. for hand guns outside the house. That happened yesterday, believe it or not, on Sunday. That in conjunction with Chris Christie a couple of weeks ago struck down a ban on magazines from ten to -- from 15 down to ten. He said no, keep it at 15. The pendulum is swinging back to the Constitution and the Second Amendment. That's good news.

BECKEL: Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

PERINO: You know, next time I do a segment about a song, you could do the sound effects.

BECKEL: I could.

PERINO: And we don't have video. I' sorry about that. We'll try to bring it to you another time.

Don't forget to set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." We'll see you back here tomorrow.

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