Who's the more serious candidate: Clinton or Fiorina?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 28, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Tom Shillue. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Two women running for president may dual appearances in South Carolina yesterday. Which one is the more serious candidate? Here was Carly Fiorina.


CARLY FIORINA, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think when 82 percent of the American people now believe that there is a professional political class, more interested in preserving its own power and privilege than it is this serving the American people, people expect basic questions to be asked of anyone running for president. What have you done? Are you trustworthy? Are you transparent? Will you answer questions?


GUILFOYLE: And here was Hillary. Notice her new accent.


HILLARY CLINTON, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Right here in South Carolina. I just came from Kiki's Chicken and Waffles, which I highly recommend.


GUILFOYLE: Oh, I may like the chicken and waffles, not the accent. Fiorina pointed out serious issues about Clinton's record.


FIORINA: But a secretary of state, she took women's right and human rights off the table for discussion with China. She called Bashar al-Assad a positive reformer. She said that Iraq was a free stable sovereign nation. She said that she could reset our Russia -- our relationship with Russia. I think all of those things I just named go fundamentally to what is her track record.


GUILFOYLE: Hillary pointed out her hair color.


CLINTON: Now, let me tell you, I'm aware I may not be the youngest candidate in this race, but I have one big advantage. I've been coloring my hair for years.


CLINTON: You're not gonna see me turn white in the White House.



GUILFOYLE: OK. Good job qualification, Dana? I mean, the accent --

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: It was kind of funny. I think it favors well with the crowd. The accent -- if you go back to 2008, remember all those clips depended on where she went in the country, she would adapt to that accent. President Obama is the same. A lot of candidates do that. It is -- (inaudible) and I think to see that way -- the dyed hair comment, pretty funny, right? I mean for the crowd, they went crazy for it. So she can maybe made fun it for it. Talk about Carly Fiorina for a second, I love the gumption and the PR tactic to figure out a way, the she wants to get her name ID up. She took the argument to Hillary Clinton's campaign and even draws out NBC's Andrea Mitchell to ask her questions because she's willing to answer questions from the media. I thought that was really, really smart.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I mean it looks like, Eric, she's come into play. She's like, listen, take me seriously. I'm a credible candidate. I will not shy away from questions.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hillary you mean.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, right -- Carly.


GUILFOYLE: Passionate, focused.

BOLLING: Right. Well, she has to.

GUILFOYLE: And she just went right in the Hillary's house. It was like, check me out.

BOLLING: Yeah, and she has to, and she did a really fine job doing it. Now that's something we've been talking about for a long time, who was, who was it gonna be. Do you want more of the same policies and Hillary would probably bring a lot of the same things that the Democrats and President Obama has brought? Or do you want someone who's actually led something? Carly Fiorina led a group, led an organization, a global organization. You like that. I'm not saying she has a chance. She's a great -- I love what she says. Look at what Hillary is doing, though. She finally gets and she starts talking and she gets in front of people and what is she talk about? She talks about hair color. She talks about the chicken and the waffles. She's brilliant. She's winning. She has scandal upon scandal, upon scandal, it's not affecting her polling, she still beating everyone including Rand Paul, who gives her the highest --


GUILFOYLE: But why are you contributing brilliance to her? --

BOLLING: No, because she's just --

GUILFOYLE: I just think she's just sort of like --

BOLLING: It's brilliant campaign.

GUILFOYLE: The lucky C-club, the lucky Clinton club.

BOLLING: K.G., if you're winning, if you're winning -- football, you're winning. You're up by 30 points and there is only five minutes left. You're not going to take chances and throw the ball in the end zone. Run the ball, get a first down, don't take any chances, she's playing prevent -- she's playing prevent offense and it's working.

TOM SHILLUE, GUEST CO-HOST: That's her slogan. Hillary, take a knee.


BOLLING: Wait, look. No, no. How is this? Hillary is winning. I'm right? Look, if she starts to falter, then you'll gonna see her starting looking to the end zone, looking for the wide receiver, trying to --

GUILFOYLE: Looking for the Hail Mary pass. We can do this all day, Bolling. I go started (ph) with you --

PERINO: Do you think she wants it for a safety?


BOLLING: I think she's winning and aiming smart politics.

GUILFOYLE: How many points is that, Dana?


SHILLUE: I'm gonna defend her on the (inaudible) --

GUILFOYLE: The intelligence on this show.

SHILLUE: I do that. When I travel around the country, I can't help it. You know, you go into a waffle house, you know, yeah, I just love -- I just love what you're doing here. Can I get some grapes you know? I go home to Boston one day, I'm like, everybody stop talking, I got to park my car. I mean it's like --

GUILFOYLE: Because you're a comedian --

SHILLUE: I know, but --

GUILFOYLE: And an actor.

SHILLUE: It work slip with. That's it. I think as a performer, I go around and try to relate to audiences. So it does slip in.

PERINO: There are all kind of -- yeah, that's what I'm saying, they're kind a performance.

SHILLUE: They're the same, yes.

GUILFOYLE: OK. But do you want a president that trying to earn a SAG card or be commander in chief, right? Because you can put on your little resume, it was like a dialect. Southern, southern charm, business warm, greets on the side. I mean, come on.

SHILLUE: People love it, though, right?

GUILFOYLE: Let's talk about some real qualifications to people.

SHILLUE: Isn't that what works in politics, though we know it's -- who people relate to.

GUILFOYLE: I get it.

SHILLUE: It's like a thing of who want a beer with. I mean, you can't change people's minds. That's the way they think, right?

GUILFOYLE: I'm offered --

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Can we talk politics for just a second?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, let's do it. Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Because I think there is something really interesting going on here in two levels. One is --


WILLIAMS: Carly Fiorina wants to get on the Fox Debate stage, Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: She does. She wants to get her numbers up, she was --


GUILFOYLE: To play with the big boys and she deserves --


GUILFOYLE: A spot there, I think.

WILLIAMS: Well, I -- you know because she'd be the only woman. I think it's so important for the Republicans to do --

GUILFOYLE: No, not because she's the only woman.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think it is. I think that it's important for the party --

PERINO: What? You can't say that.

GUILFOYLE: That is just -- that is just really -- its (inaudible).

PERINO: That's not the only reason to have her at the debate.

GUILFOYLE: I would want to be on the stage, its gratuitous (ph).

PERINO: Because she's like earned her spot at the debate.


WILLIAMS: Yes. But I think that for the Republican Party to show --

PERINO: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: That there is a woman in the mix is a good thing for the party. And much away, and you gonna, you can smack me down again, but I think it's good to have Ben Carson, a person of color up there again representing a different --

GUILFOYLE: Whoa, whoa, whoa.

WILLIAMS: For the Republican Party.

GUILFOYLE: Flag on the play.


GUILFOYLE: This is not affirmative action policy.

WILLIAMS: I didn't say it was. I don't --

GUILFOYLE: Because the president of the United States of America.

WILLIAMS: Fine. What do you -- you know I throw it back at you. So you think only white men deserve to be on the stage for the Republican Party?

PERINO: I can't believe you're saying a white woman on the democratic stage.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's you --

WILLIAMS: All right. No, no --

PERINO: I can't believe that's how you --

WILLIAMS: That's one person. Anyway, my larger point is that there was a poll today that showed -- there were five Republicans, right now, tied for the lead, right? So you imagine those five on the stage, right Kimberly? So who are the other five? Right now sixth is Paul, seven is Cruz, eight is your friend, Mr. Trump, nine is Christie from New Jersey, and then it's a tie between John Kasich, the governor of Ohio and Carly Fiorina. So she needs to do things done by following Hillary and start mocking Hillary.

GUILFOYLE: Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about Carly Fiorina. She wouldn't want to be on the stage because they said let's check the gender box.

WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh.

GUILFOYLE: She wants to be on the stage because she earned it and she got the numbers and she qualified to be in the game.

WILLIAMS: What she got earned it?

GUILFOYLE: I don't want them to just put me on, even if I thought I was better than all those guys, I would - whoops and you know what, I would say, let me get out there, let me get in front of people. I would for sure go to all of Hillary's events that she wasn't taking questions. It's like kind of the equivalent of a photo bomb in politics and go there. And like you said, try and draw out somebody like Andrea Mitchell and engaged. Get the dialogues going and I bet you it will resonate.

PERINO: And she was very smart. When the debate rules were announced, instead of complaining like, well, this isn't fair --


PERINO: And you really need to have a woman up there, she said, "I look forward to working hard and seeing you on the stage." That's why she -- that's how --



PERINO: Somebody who actually has her heart in it and wants to win because she thinks she's the best person for the job.

GUILFOYLE: And by the way, she's acting like --


GUILFOYLE: Bolling, how would like her? You're a pro ballplayer. Why - would you like to say, hey, Bolling, we'll give you a spot, you know --

WILLIAMS: No. You misinterpret this.

GUILFOYLE: On the team because you're representing -- you know, Chicago?

BOLLING: So -- no, you wouldn't want it. And I'm thinking -- I'm pretty sure the RNC would never put Carly Fiorina or Ben Carson up because he was black and she was a female, if they didn't deserve it.


BOLLING: If Fox says 10 people, it's gonna be the top 10 --


BOLLING: That's gonna probably be the way they will go with it. I do think people are voting for the first female president.


BOLLING: I think there are a lot that are -- maybe in the middle who are not necessarily Republican or Democrat who say I want to see my -- the first female.


BOLLING: As they did the first black president. I can't wait for a day when we're done with all firsts and we finally get back to let's --

GUILFOYLE: Qualifications.

BOLLING: Let's have the best president for the United States.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I'm saying.

WILLIAMS: You know --

GUILFOYLE: So when you said brilliant, that's why I was taking issue with it because I think what is -- so brilliant about what Hillary has done except this --

BOLLING: When you're winning.

GUILFOYLE: You zip it.

BOLLING: When you -- when you don't take chances, right? You don't --


GUILFOYLE: Well, I understand that. What so, was sometimes you say don't run up the score, right? And for it's like you're winning. You sit on it, you take a knee. You don't go ahead and throw the ball recklessly down field -- whatever. Unless, you got somebody amazing as like we see.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Like we had in 49ers Dwight Clark. But other than that, I hear what you're saying.


BOLLING: Well --

GUILFOYLE: I know because you were --

BOLLING: (inaudible)

GUILFOYLE: You were saying -- OK. Well, he is not very well behave, so I'm not gonna say now.

BOLLING: Jerry Rice.

GUILFOYLE: Jerry Rice, I like him.

WILLIAMS: Let's talk about --


WILLIAMS: Republican women for a second. Because right now you've got in the Senate, Joni Ernst, right? And I think Joni Ernst had a veteran -- he really, I think he's coming on as a strong presence for Republican women in this country. You've got Susana Martinez down in New Mexico. I think you got people -- I'm thinking of Nikki Haley in South Carolina.

PERINO: Because anything gonna mention by Hillary Clinton yesterday, as the first Republican woman --


PERINO: To win in South Carolina. Hillary goes there, it's just like for like one magnanimous gestures wants to be able to say, right here in South Carolina, it's proven a woman can win. And she was the first governor. Like - there was like, there's no willingness to engage at all --

BOLLING: That, that would have been actually good idea for --

PERINO: It's like smart.

GUILFOYLE: It would have been brilliant.


GUILFOYLE: Then could you could call her brilliant.

PERINO: It's not in her nature to do it. It wasn't like --


PERINO: It wasn't a national idea.


WILLIAMS: It's a hard ball politics, you know.

BOLLING: That's the risk.

WILLIAMS: Because I know --

SHILLUE: They don't come --

GUILFOYLE: Well, it is --



SHILLUE: They don't --

GUILFOYLE: They compliment across the partisan line.

SHILLUE: Republican women, they don't count to Democrats. They don't count as real women.

PERINO: That's right.

SHILLUE: Because they --

PERINO: It's the last thing you're allowed to be in America.

SHILLUE: Yes. And that's why I can't -- I think Carly Fiorina is going to rise in the polls and she probably will be in that debate because she's the best communicator out of all the Republicans.


SHILLUE: The best.

BOLLING: So which one is the --

PERINO: She's relentlessly on message.

BOLLING: What's wrong with (inaudible)

GUILFOYLE: Yes. She's --

BOLLING: I mean, you're talking about some --

SHILLUE: She looks --

PERINO: Whoever it is.

SHILLUE: I know.

GUILFOYLE: Who cares, it's about that. It's about who doesn't make the numbers.

BOLLING: You lose, do you lose Kasich? Do you lose --


BOLLING: Carson --

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

BOLLING: That's -- tall order.

SHILLUE: You know what the problem is? The Nexus Press is the problem.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. But Bolling --

SHILLUE: Carly Fiorina can't get in the news, unless she attacks Hillary. When she talks about anything else, they ignore her.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no. See, I think, I disagree. Why -- she never talks about the other Republicans and she better start talking about those other Republicans. That's who she's running against right now.

PERINO: No, I disagree. I think --

GUILFOYLE: I disagree with him too.

PERINO: That right now, her strategy -- Carly strategy -- I agree Hillary's strategy is winning for her. Carly Fiorina's strategy to focus on her is smart because Republicans with at large are looking at a field of possibly 20 candidates. What they really want is somebody who can win. OK? So they want someone who is willing to throw a punch.

GUILFOYLE: Open up the (inaudible).

PERINO: You know what Carly Fiorina now -- she actually is willing to do it. She'll take it right to the fight, so the right into the middle of it.

BOLLING: Can she, can she proceed if she doesn't make that top 10? And hit the --

PERINO: Maybe. I don't think that's the end all be all. I don't -- I really don't think that --

WILLIAMS: Well, not for her because she can --

PERINO: If you don't --

WILLIAMS: She can sell finances because she's rich.

PERINO: It doesn't matter, like if any, if of them don't make that top 10 - -

GUILFOYLE: It's not that.

PERINO: It doesn't mean their candidates --

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's tough, Dana.

PERINO: Candidacies are over. It's tougher --

WILLIAMS: It's toughing.

PERINO: But it's not over.

WILLIAMS: No. But let's just say this, she does. You guys are talking about Hillary one liners, I think she's had some very good one liners coming to the point of she's a good communicator. Her line about Hillary -- you know all that travel as secretary of state, that's not an accomplishment, that's not to be right, and then her one liner about men being impacted by their hormones as even in the oval office. I think these are memorable lines for Carly Fiorina.


WILLIAMS: Oh, you like that Tom.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you like her. So listen --

SHILLUE: Yes. I was impacted by hormones.


GUILFOYLE: I like her energy and her enthusiasm. To me, she is showing and I think she really wants to be president of the United States and she wants people to like, wake up, take notice. She wants to be in the game. I love that kind of enthusiasm.

PERINO: It's an interesting thing, though, about the media. So -- you guys see that New Yorker cover from earlier this week? So the New Yorker does illustrated covers, they have all these different guys running for president on the cover and it's -- in a locker room, and it's all -- you know, the usual suspects, people you might see on the top five. But Ben Carson and Carly Fiorina don't even get -- they don't even get drawn in, it's not even like a little pencil sketch in the back. And I think that it will be hard for her to be able to make a presence -- her presence known unless she does things like she did yesterday. I thought that was very smart. And I know she has very good people surrounding her.

GUILFOYLE: Well, guess what? We're talking about her right now in the A- block of the show and the point is what she's doing is she's making some good political noise with some facts and specifics to back it up. So I think her strategy is brilliant.

BOLLING: Can I just add something in that --


BOLLING: And Hillary has been low key and she's -- like, you know slow balling it, run the ball. But Saturday, Martin O'Malley is gonna announce. So maybe she starts hitting some of the issues a little bit harder, some of the important issues. Who's maybe --

PERINO: I doubt it.

BOLLING: But maybe -- if it -- remember, you do all these polls and his -- and Hillary is beating Rand Paul. Hillary is beating Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, if you put -- if you introduce Martin O'Malley in the mix, does that skew the -- you know all of a sudden do Republicans start giving her --

WILLIAMS: You know what is interesting about that poll?

BOLLING: Just the step the game of.

WILLIAMS: You know I was curious about this. In fact, the number two now on the democratic side is Bernie Sanders.

BOLLING: But it's only that one.

PERINO: Well, that's the only other one.

WILLIAMS: No, no, they put everybody in there. So it was Bernie Sanders and then Vice President Biden. O'Malley didn't even really register.

BOLLING: It was next week.

WILLIAMS: Do you think so?

BOLLING: Yeah. I think Saturday is gonna be interesting.

WILLIAMS: Let me add this. You know who Martin O'Malley was before we started?


BOLLING: I did. But I did --

PERINO: That was a weird to it now --


BOLLING: But I also like what he is.


BOLLING: I actually like Martin O'Malley.


BOLLING: I do. I -- I just think he's (inaudible). He has that likability factor --

GUILFOYLE: And he's got some good ideas.

BOLLING: You pointed out.

GUILFOYLE: He's actually been well liked by Democrats for a long time.

PERINO: I would, I would think -- I'm so surprised by that. You can't possibly like his economic policies in Maryland.

BOLLING: No. no, his likability.


BOLLING: His personal likeability.

SHILLUE: For someone who doesn't know about politics, they look at the guy and they're gonna think he's kind -- and he seems like a guy's guy.


PERINO: But he does know about politics.


WILLIAMS: And he's a rock and roller, Tom.


SHILLUE: Yeah. He's a rock roller.

WILLIAMS: He's a rock and roller. You bet.

GUILFOYLE: Best part of Hillary's comment was that shout out for Kiki's, right? Waffles?

SHILLUE: Oh, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Chickens.

WILLIAMS: Chicken and waffles.

GUILFOYLE: I want, I want to go there.

SHILLUE: I think I've been there.

GUILFOYLE: All right, coming up, the soccer shocker. Eric has the latest on the FIFA corruption scandal including reaction to the arrest from Vladimir Putin. Guess what, he isn't happy with America, next on The Five.


BOLLING: Shame and humiliation as fallen on world cup soccer. The United States Department of Justice has charged nine FIFA officials with 47 counts of racketeering, fraud, bribery and money laundering of up to $150 million. That's huge. Sepp Blatter, the president of FIFA earlier today.


SEPP BLATTER, FIFA PRESIDENT: Many people hold me ultimately responsible toward the actions and reputation of the global football community. I cannot monitor everyone all of the time. We will cooperate with all the authorities to make sure anyone involved in wrongdoing from top to bottom is discovered and punished.


BOLLING: Well, he's not falling on sword after all he's up for re-election tomorrow. And this happened today, too. Vladimir Putin declared the U.S. to be, quote, "meddling in FIFA business" well that's rich considering Russia is hosting the world cup in 2018. But what's got me up at night is this. Now granting (ph), good for the DOJ for taking down the Clinton's involve with FIFA but, isn't it time for our justice department to look into what some might call, similar accusations of bribery and greed levied against the Clinton Foundation? Now I'll go to Juan, my liberal and my soccer fan.


BOLLING: Some of the same types of accusations --

WILLIAMS: Well, in fact, two, two leads --

BOLLING: Influence --

WILLIAMS: Yeah, in fact --

BOLLING: And bribery.

WILLIAMS: But from FIFA to the Clinton Foundation --

BOLLING: As well.

WILLIAMS: And from people who are getting contributions. You know, making contributions are the same people that were selling bribes to FIFA in order to get --


WILLIAMS: Yeah, Qatar in specific, in order to get the world cup. I think Qatar gets it in 2022 right after the Russians.

BOLLING: Who and it's about 110 degrees in the shade in Qatar in August when they are playing soccer. When it's not --

WILLIAMS: When (inaudible) are not.

BOLLING: Crazy, right?

WILLIAMS: Unless you're getting paid, they make some kind of crazy. Who would pay soccer in the crazy heat? I don't.

BOLLING: He gave us a lot of facts now, the question was, should the DOJ open an investigation into the Clinton Foundation, given the --

WILLIAMS: Well, you got to find -- you got to have proof of something illegal. That's the hang-up there. I mean, it's like saying the FBI, O'Reilly says, "Send the FBI in." FBI says if you give us something that -- actually, you can't just go picking around and say, I don't like these people, they're political.


BOLLING: OK, legal or illegal?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know.

BOLLING: Do we need something --

GUILFOYLE: Here we go. Here we go again, Juan. Here we go. The problem is - - you just, he wants proof. That you always want like the body with the knife this it or like the gun in the hand with like the full confession, all the package, you don't get -- you don't have that. But you have to do is do an investigation. Do an investigation to find conclusive proof, and then you present it in the case and then you let them decide. You don't just sit there and go -- give me all of it, like Clinton. Come in right now. Listen to me, (inaudible). I know you do a (inaudible) --

WILLIAMS: I don't --

GUILFOYLE: You're not going to do it.

WILLIAMS: Like (inaudible) --


GUILFOYLE: They will do a southern accent and say, hey (inaudible).

BOLLING: So, Dana. Is it strange to you that the DOJ is investigating -- FIFA is I believe in Zurich, it's that where they domicile. In Zurich, they will open up this big investigation, four year investigation, I understand, yet Clinton some of the same accusations, nothing with the Clinton Foundation, as far as we know.

PERINO: Well -- or the other is that, let's just say -- there could be at the justice department right now, there could an investigation that is under way. And it's quiet and it's sealed. And we won't know until she's in the White House.


PERINO: That they actually had an investigation open. So that it is possible and it's a fair point. I do think it's interesting that the first thing that Putin did was come out and defend Blatter, and -- you know this is -- it's such a political situation. The other thing I'm glad about, that I hope this does is --

GUILFOYLE: Hope it does.

PERINO: Palestinians were attempting to get Israel kicked out of the world cup. I hope that these will hopefully, to slow that train down and get it off -- maybe even get it off the tracks completely.

BOLLING: Tommy, Qatar has never qualified for a world cup tournament, yet they will gonna host it in '22.


BOLLING: Russia, as Dana point out, in 2018, they're gonna host the World Cup. Remember what happened in Sochi Olympics? Remember the disaster there?

GUILFOYLE: Remember the toilets?

BOLLING: The toilets -- the yellow water, the cockroaches.

SHILLUE: Well I remember --

GUILFOYLE: No toilet paper.

SHILLUE: The rumor was Clinton was so angry that, we didn't get the world cup that he --


SHILLUE: Threw a glass or something happened.

PERINO: Yeah. She broke a mirror.

SHILLUE: Yeah, and that's when -- that's right. He punched a mirror or something like that. That was the rumor. But -- are we surprised that FIFA has some connection to the Clinton Foundation? We should start with a list of people who haven't given money to the Clinton Foundation. It's only like four people so far. But --


PERINO: I'm in.

GUILFOYLE: They're at this table. Yeah.

SHILLUE: I've mean, he's got Blatter. He's gonna get reelected.

GUILFOYLE: Juan did.


SHILLUE: And he's the closest thing we have to a Bond villain. Have you seen, he's always -- we got to get him like --


SHILLUE: A nice Persian cat. Look at him, his --


SHILLUE: He is Dr. Evil.

BOLLING: So shouldn't he step down, should he -- I mean, clearly he's gonna run tomorrow. I mean, he's --

PERINO: I would (inaudible)

BOLLING: At least nine officials who are -- or arrest public perp walk, handcuffs, we would allow it, didn't we?

GUILFOYLE: I mean, I love it and I love his name, right. Like Sepp --

WILLIAMS: Blatter.

PERINO: What is like a disease? GUILFOYLE: It's like Septic Blatter.

SHILLUE: Yeah. No I accept on matter for that, it clear, clear right up.


SHILLUE: But they, they didn't get to Sepp, though. They got his lieutenants, the vice president -- the guys just under him. So he's gonna come up (inaudible) free.

PERINO: So what kind of bad things like, I have no idea what my organization is doing?

SHILLUE: (inaudible) that's what they did in Enron. The top guy, they never, they never catch him but it's all --

GUILFOYLE: You know -- you know you're really guilty when like Vladimir cat -- Vladimir Putin is like, vouching for you and he's your character witness. I mean, I would fall over laughing in the courtroom -- people call.

WILLIAMS: You know, at just to --

GUILFOYLE: Vladimir Putin.


WILLIAMS: You know that the United States is the one that is doing this.


WILLIAMS: Because the Europeans are crazy for soccer, not us.

PERINO: But that was I was actually --

GUILFOYLE: No, we're getting (inaudible).

PERINO: I was actually interested because -- you love this story and you knew it immediately that it was a huge story, but you hate soccer.

BOLLING: I don't hate soccer. I prefer other sports. I can't watch a full soccer game.


BOLLING: I can watch any football game on the planet.

PERINO: I have three members sitting here during the world cup and you hated it.

BOLLING: Well because -- for 20 years at least --

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

BOLLING: You've been hearing the accusations of FIFA --

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

BOLLING: Just giving --


BOLLING: For 20 years, finally someone did it. The really interesting point of this whole thing is Europeans have said, good job, U.S.A, good job going after them. We've known it for a long time.

WILLIAMS: Yeah because --

BOLLING: Where are they, though?

WILLIAMS: It's yeah -- and where are they and you know they've said, oh Blatter should step down" and he said, oh, no I can't be there right now because we have an election tomorrow. How incredible. They are so weak and ineffectual, and that's the biggest for - I mean, imagine if this was the NFL?


WILLIAMS: I mean -- there would be riots in the streets.

BOLLING: Yup. Would Goodell step down?



BOLLING: All right. Up next, Baltimore is breaking records for violent crime after the Freddie Gray riots. How does the mayor explain the surge in violence? We will invite (ph) her, that's next.


WILLIAMS: Now to Baltimore's crime crisis. It's he been the deadliest month for the city this century, 38 people have been murdered so far, the highest monthly total since 1996. Arrest to plummeted, since the rioting and crimes gotten so bad, some residents say, they are afraid to go outside. Noting police aren't patrolling like they used to before the Freddie Gray riots. Leland Vittert asked Baltimore's Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake about the spike in violence.


LELAND VITERT, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: How this is the deadliest month in 15 years. How is that anything other than a failure of your policies?

STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE MAYOR: There are a lot of reasons why that we -- that we're having a surge in violence and other cities have experienced police officers who have been accused or indicted for crimes. And there is a lot of distrust and, you know, the community breakdown. The result is routinely increased violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that mean the police are doing less? Arrests are down 50 percent.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: I'm not 100 percent sure what you're doing.


GUILFOYLE: Craziness.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me suggest that what he's doing is pointing out that, you know what? This murder thing is out of control, and it's black people killing black people. And it's mostly young black people, the very people involved in the riots. So I guess he's holding you to account. Eric, am I off?

BOLLING: No, you're 100 percent right. And we've said it before. I've said it before. What did you expect was going to happen when you point the finger at law enforcement. Think of anything, think of a sports team. Think of a business, a position of military or law enforcement. Put them together.

In a sports team, if the quarterback goes back and is about to throw the football, and he looks over and the coach is going "no" or "stop" every time, you're going to lose the game. In a business, if the boss says every time you think something, you're about to say something, and they say, don't say that, you're going to lose the ratings; you're going to lose the product.

But in military and law enforcement, when the boss, the mayor, the police chief starts pointing the finger at the cops, you're going to -- you're going to question what you do. It's going to be demoralizing, and it's a matter of life and death.

WILLIAMS: I think you and I disagree on this, because I think you can't have abusive police. Nobody is saying bad police is good and you're just making excuses and let it go away.

BOLLING: Did I say that?

WILLIAMS: No. But I just want to make that point. Because it's critical.

But I do think at the same time, you know who needs police the most? The poor minority neighborhoods that otherwise become the wild, wild west. That's why you need police, and that's why you need confidence in the police.

BOLLING: Or black police is what you need.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think you need cops of any kind. But otherwise -- I mean, look, let me just say personally, who do you think is a bigger threat to me: the police in New York or Washington, D.C., or some kid who's doing a drive-by and stops in front of my house? Answer, B.

SHILLUE: So why is it, Juan, a right-wing thing. Why is it that we have this kind of, like, the left in the country is always coming down on the police.

And we have these demonstrations -- the demonstrators, we know that policy -- aggressive policing or, you know, the way that Rudy Giuliani, who was no friend of the black community, even though he was saving black lives because of his policies, right? Why is it that we can't have that logic?

The idea that most of the protesters -- or maybe not -- that many of the protesters, they're alive because of the police. When you don't have aggressive police, people die.

WILLIAMS: Well, again, you don't want to be a situation where you feel as if the police are an oppressive force in your community every time you show up just because you're black they know you're a bad guy. People don't like that.

SHILLUE: So how did we get into that...

GUILFOYLE: I think you mean proactive. You mean aggressive, like, working outside of their bounds. Like proactive...

SHILLUE: Of course. I mean, aggressive to me is a good word. When I say it, I think I'm saying proactive policing. And that's what -- it never -- never rubbed off on Rudy Giuliani. The -- his relations with the inner- city communities got worse while there were fewer deaths. It always amazed me.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Because people felt that they were being ignored and abused. I mean, it's just like stop and frisk here in New York. You could say stop and frisk has some positive impact, but it also means that if you're young and black in the city, you feel like every time a cop -- you see a cop he's going to harass you for no reason.

GUILFOYLE: You want to be alive or do you want to have...

WILLIAMS: No, you can't -- who wants to live in that kind of society?

GUILFOYLE: But the point is it's legal. The United States of America, stop and frisk is legal. Just ask the Supreme Court. So this whole thing we're like worried about somebody's one part might be hurt feelings? There's always room for improvement, but don't take away the tools of what you enforcement otherwise you will see the aftermath and the result of these PC, foolish, reckless policies. And it's body bags now in Baltimore, thanks to that.

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know that it's all thanks to that.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it is.

WILLIAMS: But I will say this: that you're right when you say that there's less aggressive, not abusive, but aggressive policing. What they're reporting is that, if a cop stops somebody now in Baltimore, a crowd gathers. They've got the video cameras out. The police feel absolutely like "If I make a mistake, if I say the wrong thing, if I come upon the scene and somebody else is -- I'm going to get indicted here. So the police feel as if they are hand strung in simply try doing their jobs.

About the line, now the cops are the ones with the cuffs on. They have the hands behind the back, they can't do the stop and frisk and then she just bucketed, you know, Mosby did, six cops. So do you think the rest of them want to put it on the line, lose their job, lose their family without any resources?

Be like, "I'm going to throttle back and sit this out a bit. I'll do what I need to, but I'm not going to get after it every day and go hunt it down. I'm going to respond if I need to, to calls."

WILLIAMS: What kind of language is that, "hunt it down"? I don't know about that -- Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Hunt it down as in go after it, try and go after leads. Do proactive policing, do the whole...

WILLIAMS: No, we've got -- we should do...

PERINO: I have a quick comment. That the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness actually requires structure, order and police. So when she is asked this question -- she's going to be asked more, if she does press conferences -- instead of saying, going back over cause and effect, which seems to not have any answer, I would recommend that they start focusing on "Here's what we're doing about it." OK. So rather than wallowing in that -- you know, she, when she ran, she said her goal was to get 10,000 more families to move into Baltimore. That is not going to happen.

WILLIAMS: No, in fact they're talking about all the empty houses. Who -- let me ask you: Would you live there?

BOLLING: And the exact same thing, that the people aren't moving in, moving out, same thing happened in Ferguson. The same. All these numbers, these crime rates, violent crime rates going up, where cops have said, "Wow, you're going to point the finger at me for being proactive in my policing. Well, I've got to scale it back."

GUILFOYLE: That's what I just said. He's...

WILLIAMS: All right. Unions helped fight for a minimum-wage hike in Los Angeles. But guess what? Now they're hoping they don't have to ante up. Ms. Perino explains when "The Five" returns.


PERINO: Last week, the Los Angeles City Council voted to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020. Union leaders helped lobby for the hike, throwing their full support behind it. But what's good for the goose is apparently not good for the gander.

This week the unions are asking for an exemption. Rusty Hicks, head of the Federation of Labor in L.A. County, argues that companies with unionized workforces should have leeway to negotiate a wage lower than the one mandated.

Eric, I want to ask you about this. This is like saying, "Mr. Business Owner, I know that you don't want to unionize, but if you do, then you'll be exempt from this requirement and can pay your lowest skilled workers less; and we get more union members."

BOLLING: It's insane the hypocrisy of this. The unions, who paid people to protest to get their $15 wage law pushed -- pushed through city council in L.A., left a loophole in the -- whoever wrote the law left a loophole for unionized businesses to not have to abide by the union -- abide by the law that they pushed themselves.

Only has -- this is exceeded by Obamacare. Remember that one?


BOLLING: Unions pushed -- SEIU paid people to protest. They made sure that Obamacare got pushed through. And then they asked -- union after union, there were hundreds of unions who asked for Obamacare waivers once the law was pushed through. Hypocrisy.

PERINO: If it weren't so serious, it would be funny, right?

SHILLUE: Yes. You know what? It is -- at first you look at it and you can't even believe it. But it is a crafty move by labor. Because they're saying, "Hey, you know, you don't want to pay the $13" -- what is it, $15?

PERINO: Fifteen.

SHILLUE: "You don't want to pay the 15? Maybe we can make a deal." So that's what they want to do. You don't have to...

GUILFOYLE: That was an accent.

SHILLUE: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: He was doing a Hillary.

SHILLUE: But they -- it's crafty, because they go to businesses and they say, "We'll give you a break on the wage if you unionize, if you join us." And then, once they're unionized, then they can -- you know, obviously, then they have a lot of power.

But it's a great back door of getting unions in there. It's a good trick.

PERINO: So cynical. They're telling these low-wage workers, "We want to help you, so you pay us a fee to help you," and then they undercut the workers.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. They're like, "Do that. Come with us, and then we're going to have you get an exemption or exception, and you're going to work for less, but you're going to also pay us dues and it's going to be amazing." Yes.

WILLIAMS: Well, no. But it's totally self-serving and, you know, it just pains me to say, it's just totally hypocritical. I mean, and it's not just L.A. This is also true in Oakland. It's true in San Francisco. It's true in Chicago. I just don't understand how people can think we're just going to do this and no one's going to notice. Because it's an outrage. It's all about getting more union members.

Now this extends, not so much in my mind to Obamacare but what's going on now with the whole deal about trade, the trade deal that President Obama is trying to do. The unions and the Democrats, they were opposed to it.

When you look at it, you say, wait a second. This actually improves America's economic chances in the future. Overwhelming support from the American people, but somehow it's now politically required for Democrats to oppose it. I don't get it.

BOLLING: But it's a tactic. It's a tactic to get unions, have more unions.

PERINO: It's about more union memberships, not helping poor people.

BOLLING: More union membership. It's a shakedown. It's a pure and simple shakedown of the businesses in L.A.

GUILFOYLE: It's about reversing the decline of unions and their influence in this country. And they will do anything to still stay in the game and use people and make them work for less and promise them more. But it's just not true. There's no real good bargain there.

WILLIAMS: But doesn't that undermine...

GUILFOYLE: And by the way, the courts will overturn this, because the unions will be having an unfair advantage legally.


WILLIAMS: But OK. So just for a second, just look at it from my perspective. Doesn't this undermine the authority, the credibility of unions when they do things that are just so patently hypocritical?

BOLLING: Further undermine?


BOLLING: So why would they do that?

PERINO: But it also, the other thing that it does is it gives unions a lot more money to play with so that they can get involved in elections.

WILLIAMS: It worked.

PERINO: And gives the Clintons cash.

PERINO: ... Democrats. Voters, beware.

OK. She spends her Saturday nights mocking a certain presidential candidate on "SNL." Take a look.




PERINO: But Kate McKinnon reveals her true feelings about Hillary Clinton ahead.


SHILLUE: "SNL's" Kate McKinnon does a pretty spot-on impersonation of Hillary Clinton.


VANESSA BAYER, CAST MEMBER, NBC'S "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": You're finally going to announce that you're running for president.

MCKINNON: Oh, my gosh, I don't know if I have it in me. I'm scared. I'm kidding. Let's do this.

BAYER: That's much better.

Want to do some vocal warm-ups? And then we'll get started.

MCKINNON: OK. Love to. Hillary is a granny with a twinkle in her eye. Hillary is a granny and she makes an apple pie. First female president. First female president. Mi-mi-mi mi-mi-mi-mi.


SHILLUE: And it turns out she is a supporter, as well, and as a result, feels pressure to get the candidate's character just right.


MCKINNON: I do feel immense pressure. I'm rooting for her, obviously.

I just wanted to play on the inherent contrast between a woman who is so driven and so hardened by her experiences and needs this; and the country needs this. And also a little sweetie granny from the Midwest.


SHILLUE: "Obviously, I'm a supporter." Obviously. Kimberly, you were shaking your head. But shouldn't she be honest? We all know everyone over there at "SNL" is a Democrat, so why not they just come out and say it? Stop hiding.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, it is so obvious. I hate when people are just like, "Oh, well, you know." It's like come on, we all know. Just, like, come out with it.

But when I see stuff like this, I just feel like I'm going to have to get used to seeing a lot of it. A lot.

SHILLUE: I say if we know how they feel...

GUILFOYLE: No, I'm saying it looks like -- this whole thing seems like she's going to be president, doesn't it?

SHILLUE: Well, I mean, exactly. They think it's a foregone conclusion. But they're all excited. I mean, that was a women's round table in comedy.

Dana, why are women taking off in comedy? Is this the year of the woman comedian? We've got Amy Schumer, Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Lena Dunham...

PERINO: Finally getting their due.

SHILLUE: They really are. They're taking -- what happened? White males, we used to run this thing.

PERINO: You're going to need reverse affirmative action in the comedy world.

SHILLUE: We do. I'm not kidding. It's like they're all...

PERINO: It's just that it used to be -- I think that being professional and being coy and saying, "Look, I couldn't tell you who I support. I'm a comedian." Just like leaving it there. That was the way to advance your career. But now the way to advance your career is to say you're for Hillary.

SHILLUE: Well, of course. I mean, everyone out there. Who do we got, Bolling? We've got Vince Vaughn? Is there anyone else in comedy, besides Shillue over here?

BOLLING: Gutfeld.

SHILLUE: OK, Gutfeld.

BOLLING: Also Louis C.K. Can I do a conspiracy theory?


BOLLING: I see this coming. I see what this is all about. They've got a Hillary character up there; they have fun. They have some fun; she does a good job. They're all Democrats. Anyway, they're setting this up for right in the middle of the campaign, when it's counting the most, Hillary Clinton is going to show up and host "SNL."

PERINO: Of course she is.

BOLLING: Them both side by side.

GUILFOYLE: It's not even a conspiracy. That's just a strategy.

BOLLING: How -- she will get so much upside. And she's just going to take the joke. She's not going to be offended by it.

PERINO: And you know what?

SHILLUE: Why not?

PERINO: If a Republican goes and does it and hits the ball out of the park, that would be huge.

SHILLUE: Well, I mean, Sarah Palin showed up and she did fine on there, right? She took the joke.

One, the narrative of the last election or the one before that was the -- was that Palin was destroyed by Tina Fey. But did that -- was that really true?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so at all.

PERINO: Tom. Yes.

SHILLUE: You do?

PERINO: If you are a candidate for president or vice president, and you have an entire primetime special devoted to making fun of your intellect, yes, that's a problem.

SHILLUE: But they -- the people who didn't like Sarah Palin laughed at it, but the people who did, they thought it was fun.

PERINO: It reinforced stereotypes and myths about her, absolutely.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so. I think it made her more of a star than ever. But I can tell you're sensitive on this point. I will say...

PERINO: Excuse me?

WILLIAMS: You're being sensitive.

GUILFOYLE: Ay, yi, yi.

WILLIAMS: But I must say, I'm amused by the fact that Kid Rock for the Republicans...

GUILFOYLE: Look at the face.

WILLIAMS: ... he's a celebrity. He's backing Ben Carson. And what about Mike Huckabee?


WILLIAMS: He's in trouble, because we've got the Duggars backing Mike Huckabee.

GUILFOYLE: What are you doing? Relaxing over there?

SHILLUE: Well, they're after me. OK.

GUILFOYLE: Is that a filibuster or something that happened?

SHILLUE: They say we've got to go. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: What is this?


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." Eric, what do you have?

BOLLING: OK. So if you're squeamish, please look away. You know, cops making traffic stops, sometimes it gets a little testy and it gets a little -- you know, the people who are being stopped get a little -- just watch. This one was caught on tape. Watch.


KENNY BOWMAN, POLICE OFFICER (TALKING TO TWO KIDS IN A PLAY CAR): You guys know why I pulled you over today?

RYLEE BOWMAN, DAUGHTER: Because we're too cute.

K. BOWMAN: What, are you a bunch of wise guys? Why aren't you all buckled up?

R. BOWMAN: Mind your business.

K. BOWMAN: Let me see you all's driver's license.

R. BOWMAN: He has no backup, floor it.



GUILFOYLE: That's very cute. I liked that.

BOLLING: That's Officer Kenny Bowman of the Roanoke, Virginia, Police Department and his two kids.

SHILLUE: Escalates very quickly.

GUILFOYLE: Super cute.

BOLLING: Very quickly.

GUILFOYLE: Super cute.

Tom, hi.

SHILLUE: Oh, my "One More Thing." OK. 1984, I had to cancel barbershop quartet rehearsals so I could go see The Police...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

SHILLUE: ... at Boston Garden. Cut to Friday night.


BARBERSHOP QUARTET (singing): You don't have to put on that red, red light.

STING, MUSICIAN (singing): Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red lights.

BARBERSHOP QUARTET (singing): Put on the red lights. Don't put on the red lights. Don't put on the red lights. Don't put on that red, red light.


SHILLUE: Yes, in case you didn't recognize him with the beard, that is Sting. He grew it for his Broadway show. But it was amazing to be able to sing -- I mean, I never would have thought I would be singing barbershop with Sting.

BOLLING: I watched that live. That was fantastic. And I think Fallon said he wants to bring Sting back to do more -- more Police songs.

SHILLUE: Yes. We're ready to go.

BOLLING: Oh, that's great.

GUILFOYLE: Dana. Dana.

PERINO: I'm next. OK, because Greg's not here, I'm going to steal this next.


GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Greg's Sports Corner!


PERINO: OK. You wouldn't expect this from me. But I know something is happening in the hockey world. OK. This is the first time since 2000 that both NHL conference final series will be decided in a game seven.

The New York Rangers are playing the Tampa Bay Lightning. That's Friday night. And then Chicago Blackhawks and the Anaheim Ducks. That's what they're called?


PERINO: OK. So I want to thank @jtm1964. He was my Twitter follower who gave me that suggestion today when I was in a "One More Thing" drought.

SHILLUE: Oh, my God.

GUILFOYLE: Pretty good, though.

PERINO: That's pretty impressive.

GUILFOYLE: And I want to do a special congratulations from your buddies here at "The Five" to FOX News's Greta Van Susteren. Fantastic. Once again, Greta is making the "Forbes" 12th annual 100 most powerful women's list. We are very proud of her. It's pretty incredible. She's in the company of Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Melinda Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Sheryl Sandberg, and Michelle Obama.

PERINO: And Taylor Swift.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I left that out. Greta, you go!

WILLIAMS: All right. Well, you know what? It's getting hot out there, so get your grill smoking, because it's National Hamburger Day. Yes, that's right. And the big news today is McDonald's. This is unbelievable to me. McDonald's is changing the way it makes hamburgers. They want to make the buns hotter, so they're going to heat them up for five more seconds. They're also going to do something different with the meat so it's juicier.

I don't know. This could be New Coke.

GUILFOYLE: Is that it? Are you going to eat it?

WILLIAMS: This is McDonald's, buddy. I'm telling you.

GUILFOYLE: Are you going to eat it?

WILLIAMS: No, I don't -- you know.


WILLIAMS: She took my -- Mom, she took my burger. Oh, Mom. She took my...

PERINO: That's it for us. Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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