Who originated the politics of personal destruction?

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This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 15, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I am Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and a gum wrapper is her beach towel, Dana Perino -- "The Five."

Yesterday, a left-wing creep open fire on GOP lawmakers practicing for tonight's game.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know where is that? Do you know where is that?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I assume people calling 911 already.


GUTFELD: Now, despite the attack, the lawmakers took the field tonight at Nationals Stadium in D.C.

More on that as well as an update on Congressman Scalise later. So, since the shooting, we have seen a lot of finger-pointing. After preaching unity, Nancy pants blames the Republicans:


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you see this as equally afflicting the left and the right --

HOUSE MINORITY LEADER NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: No, I do not. Somewhere in the '90s, Republicans decided on the politics of personal destruction as they went after the Clintons. And that is the covenant of it. And that's what has continued.


GUTFELD: Sorry lady, the politics of destruction started way before that. And it's back for one reason: The attacks on discourse. If you shut down discourse then there's no stopgap between rage and violence. Discourse keeps us from killing each other.

So knowing this, let's ask these questions. Are conservatives the ones shouting people down on campus? Are conservatives blockading offices and physically attacking speakers? Are conservatives rioting after elections? Are conservatives harassing professors for calling out racism? Are conservatives stabbing police horses? Are they throwing urine on young women?

This attack on discourse is not a right wing thing, it's a left-wing thing who perfected it for decades, seeking to subvert the West. I don't know one righty who wears a Che shirt. But I remember Bill Ayers. He set off bombs. Whose side is he on again? It's the same side targeting descent with violence now. The premise is simple: If they think you are evil, not just wrong, then there can be no dialogue and only violence.

So, there's the rub: If a person agrees with you that it's time for calmness, then they aren't the problem. It's the people who embrace violence who are. I'd ask them to stop right now but I don't think they watch "The Five."

Juan, Nancy said it. I will start with the Clintons. Do you think that's accurate? I mean, don't you think the '70s -- it started before that with the Vietnam War in demonizing -- I would say, my theory is it started with Nixon and blaming him for the Vietnam War and calling all those soldiers baby killers. I think that's where it came.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, no, no. I think in this modern era, our politics really have roots in that Clinton impeachment and the very personal kind of attacks that came forth during that period. I would go forward Greg from there to the 2,000 election and the kind of acrimony and accusations about cheating in the election and the Supreme Court decision. And then we've had a moment of unity around 9/11 but then you go to 2004, and the Swift voting charges against John Kerry and the charges for blood and money against President Bush.

It got so personal. So, I think she's right about that. But I just think it's also important to say that Pelosi didn't invite this conversation. She said we shouldn't be having this conversation today. She wanted to celebrate the idea that we are family. That the Congress people across political lines are playing in the game.

GUTFELD: You know, Jesse, I remember the Burke hearings, on that old, I remember how Ronald Reagan was portrayed as Hitler.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: I wasn't going to say it.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I mean, this stuff is been -- the radical left has always traffic in violence because they romanticized it as part of a revolutionary ideology. So, it's natural I would think that it comes from there.

WATTERS: You made that great point last night, this is just in their bloodstream, it's what they do. So, Juan's point about the personal destruction of the 90s. I think it was Bill Clinton who destroyed his own presidency by making a dumb personal decision. So, let's just make sure we have that clear. Nancy Pelosi is politicizing an assassination attempt against her own colleague. She didn't even wait 24 hours. The guy is still in the hospital. She's pointing fingers at Republicans after a Democrat pointed a gun at Republicans and squeezed the trigger?

I think right now what you're seeing is, the media and the Democrats have almost accepted death and violence in the political discourse. And when celebrities go out there and they talk about killing and assassination and blowing up the White House, no one in the media draws the line for them. They don't say stop. So, they don't know where the line is. And, you know, you didn't have a thousand newspaper reporters, thousands of TV personalities, five networks and all this mainstream media constantly trying to destroy President Obama and trying to impeach President Obama.

You didn't have that. And right now you just have an avalanche of negativity. You don't have Republican politicians going out there and saying that, you know, President Obama kills people and he's a killer. You have that right now against President Trump. So, I think one of the real reasons the left is so bloodthirsty is because Trump threatens their existence. If he succeeds and America first succeeds, their credibility and their coalitions, they're done. So, this is life and death for the Left. And I think the more Trump does succeed, I think the more violent it's going to get.

GUTFELD: You know, Kimberly, Jesse brings up what the right is always being accused of. And I can't blame people for not liking the right. Because we are being told that they've rolled back civil rights. They are secret white supremacist.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yes. Don't forget women.

GUTFELD: Yes. They're sexist. The guilty of treason. They sent people to death if they ever try to change Medicaid in the Paris accords. That's going to cause mass extension. So, if you read what the Democrats or the Left say about us, I would hate us too.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes. As a D.A., we have the charging sheet. Anything else we can blame them on? We're careless, reckless with climate. Everything. So, basically, all evils or things that are wrong in the world, they pointed and say, okay. If the Republicans, you have to think, when you think back about the time about the Democrats and all the names that they have called, conservatives or Republicans or people that voted. You know, for President Trump, you are racist, you're sexist, anything that you can think of they have said.

But how did the Democrats explain all the middle-class and working men and women that came out and voted for President Trump? Are all of those people bad too? I think they forget. Because they're in the sort of like, very vocal minority bubble of extremist language and alt-left, that they might be actually offending a large number of hard-working voting Americans out there who aren't spewing stuff but they are listening and hearing what's been going on. And then you see this. And then the poor taste of judgment to not cancel the play in Central Park. The assassination with what happened, with the attempted assassination of Congressman Scalise and the others there. It's just, you know, how did it get this bad?


GUTFELD: You know, Dana, what I am trying to get is, is like, whether it's Pelosi talking to a Republican like about lowering the tenure, the discourse, those aren't the people you need to reach.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: I fear that it's the people that you want to reach, you've lost them. Nobody in anti-fa is going to listen to any of us.

PERINO: It's what actually Jesse and I are talking in agreement before the show and I was saying something that all these conversations about softening the rhetoric are like having amongst ourselves. Basically none of us are about to go out and shoot somebody because of their views might be opposing to ours. On the Ben Shapiro show today, he was talking about that the roots of this actually go all the way back with the Left demonizing the right during the JFK assassination.

And basically, if you look at what happened then from the media standpoint, once talk radio sort of comes into play and FOX News is susceptible, you saw the left gets really resentful that there were successful media outlets that were providing this counterweight to what had been out there for so long and never been challenged. Now, with social media, you actually are taking a lot of the networks in the newspapers out of the equation. Most people get their news online.

And a lot of this, I think one thing is very sad, and we haven't had a lot of reporting about this yet. But a lot of these people like Hodgkinson, the shooter, when he's on those websites, you know, wanting to destroy the Republican Party or whatever that was that he was part of a Facebook group, a lot of that content is fueled by fake newser, that actual fake news coming from Russia and Macedonia. People that are actually wholesale making up stories and trying to stoke anger and trying to figure out a way that they can actually make money because of the clicks. So, there's a whole different sort of media thing that it's happening, that wasn't there 60 years ago but that it's building. And now it's like basically throwing fuel on the fire.

GUTFELD: Juan, can I ask you I just read today about the Golden State Warriors not going to the White House. In terms of discourse, couldn't they go and talk to the guy and say, here is why we are mad at you? Sometimes people avoid that because what if they are wrong or what if they find out he's not so bad?

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: I think people have a legitimate right to say, I don't like your politics, I don't like your fear mongering. I don't like your anger.

GUTFELD: Then go and say it.

WILLIAMS: You don't have to go and say it. I think by their absence, it's being said very loudly. I mean, you know, you look at, by the way, when I listen to this, I think to myself I just look at daily politics. And I see tens of millions of dollars being spent down in Georgia to demonize Nancy Pelosi. She has become, you know, what's the opposite of a whipping boy, a whipping girl, she has become a pinata for the right. And I just think, well, what's the basis of this? But you know, what? It doesn't matter anymore. Because in the mind of the right wing, she is bad. And they find that they can raise money, generate votes and anger.

PERINO: You're talking about the special election in Georgia?


PERINO: But the Democrats have spent just as much money if not more and they're actually, you know, their polling shows that he is in stronger position to beat Karen Handle on Tuesday. There's a long way to go. Maybe that's not going to happen. But they basically have spent all their money demonizing President Trump.

WILLIAMS: Well, no, they go after Trump on the basis of his policies. I am saying --

GUILFOYLE: What about her policies?

WILLIAMS: Well, that's not what they do, Kimberly. They go after her in terms of she's the leader and she is this bad, she's a witch. It's like they're having --

WATTERS: Can I say one thing about Pelosi -- Pelosi was given the opportunity when she was asked that question. You know, which side is going to take any responsibility for some of this violence? And instead of saying -- she could have said, you know, the left sometimes gets out of control and we need to talk to them and make sure that they don't do that. Or she could have said, even, you know, it's both sides. Both sides are wrong. We contribute it. No, she pointed the finger at Republicans a day after a Republican but it was shot by a hard-core Democrat activist.

WILLIAMS: In response, she said this is not the day for this conversation.

WATTERS: She answered the question and had the conversation.

WILLIAMS: No. Because she answered a question, she was pushed on --

WATTERS: She didn't have to answer like that.

WILLIAMS: The question is, if you live in an age where you see immigrants demonized. Where you see Black Lives Matter called out as evil and terrible and antipolice and then someone will say, well, who is saying these things? Why is that there is violence coming from the Trump rallies and the President, the man elected president says, I'll pay your legal bills, Ted Nugent insulting the President, talking about, oh, you know --

WATTERS: Some of these illegal immigrants are crossing the border illegally and then committing crimes.

WILLIAMS: Oh, let me just say.

WATTERS: And stealing jobs. And some of the Black Lives Matter people are chanting about killing cops.

WILLIAMS: Well, President Obama is not a monkey. How about that?

WATTERS: What is that have to do with anything?

WILLIAMS: Oh, because the images that came from the far right from Ted Nugent, Carl Paladino, I could go on but I'm not --

WATTERS: Okay. You don't point to a random sign of the Tea Party, Juan. I'm talking about elected officials and the people in the media.

GUTFELD: The interesting thing is, Juan, you are suggesting that what Trump says or does incites violence but the problem is, it's inciting violence from the other side. So, think about that.

WILLIAMS: The guy who got punched in the face of the Trump rally?

GUTFELD: That was one thing. You find once exception proves that.


GUTFELD: Coming up. A live report from the Congressional baseball underway after yesterday's political assassination attempt, an update on Congressman Scalise's condition. That's next.



PRES. DONALD TRUMP (R), UNITED STATES: I want to thank members of Congress, their staffs and baseball fans across the country for supporting tonight's Congressional baseball game. By playing tonight, you are showing the world that we will not be intimidated by threats, acts of violence, or assaults on our democracy. On a special night, I leave you with three great American words that for generations have torn down barriers, build bridges of unity and defied those who have sought to pull us apart. Ladies and gentlemen, let's play ball.


PERINO: That's President Trump delivering a very special message on a very special night. The annual Congressional baseball game for charity is underway as planned despite yesterday's attempted assassination of GOP lawmakers practicing for the big event.

Peter Doocy is live at Nationals Park in Washington, DC with an update on the game and on Congressman Scalise's condition -- Peter.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Dana, just as most of the 20,000 plus people that are here at Nationals Park tonight were settling into their seats but before the game started, the entire stadium fell silent and everyone watched as the Democratic team and the Republican team all headed out to second base to take a knee and pray with the House chaplain on the spot where Congressman Steve Scalise would have been standing tonight if he hadn't been targeted by a gunman while practicing for tonight's game.

A photo of Scalise then appeared on the jumbotron as a member of the Republican team. And Democrats and Republicans alike all rose in 42 seconds of a standing ovation. A few minutes later, an email update came from the hospital where doctors say that Scalise is going to be there for some time that he has improved in the last 24 hours. MedStar Hospital which is about five miles from Nationals Park also announced tonight, the House Majority Whip had a second surgery today for internal injuries and for the broken bone in his leg.

And for the first time since yesterday's ambush in Alexandria, one of the men who helped stop the gunmen, Capitol police officer David Bailey appeared here using crutches to get to the mound at the center of the diamond before dropping one of his crutches and tossing a first pitch straight to the catcher, Roberto Clemente, Jr. The entire crowd erupted in some of the loudest applause that you would hear. A few minutes after that, President Trump did go on the video board with the somber message about the importance of playing tonight's game. His daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner are here in attendance.

And I can tell you from my spot here, in center field in the outfield that when President Trump was done talking, there was loud applause on the Democratic side over on the Left field bleachers and on the Republican side or on the right side bleachers -- Dana.

PERINO: And for good reason. All right. Thanks, Peter for that update. We appreciate it.

Jesse, one of the things that we showed in the video there was the prayer, the huddle of both teams. And you said that that was very moving when you saw it.

WATTERS: It was very moving and I think symbolism like that in politics and in sports is very powerful especially that first pitch we just saw for now. I mean, you get chills when you watch that and you get chills when you watch this. You know, it's reminiscent of George W. Bush throwing out the first pitch right after 9/11 at Yankee Stadium. Not to that level but I mean those moments where you grip the nation. Jesse Owens of the Olympics. And when they have the F-16s, the football games, I think everybody, Republican or Democrat can appreciate those moments that bind us together as Americans.

PERINO: And it sounds Kimberly like Congressman Scalise is doing, possibly a little better after that surgery today.

GUILFOYLE: You know, thanks be to God because everybody was very, you know, worried publicly but also privately in terms of his condition and how he was doing. And so, I think all the amazing prayers for him I believe are helping. I'm happy for his family. And I hope he continues to fight through, it is very difficult when you have an injury like that and just in terms of the bullet not exiting the body, and they're none of damage to internal organs, and they tried to stabilized so that then they could do some follow-up surgeries to help them and pick his lay again. You know?

So, you know, he's got a long road ahead of him. But obviously a tremendous amount of support which is fantastic. And this was very moving. I thought the President making the comments and doing this. I know he would have like to go but he couldn't because of the security issue, not enough timing, that that was nice that Jared and Ivanka went and his comments yesterday as well. So, let's really take this and make something incredible out of horrible, you know, violence and tragedy and take an opportunity to treat each other well. And not go back.

PERINO: Juan, you still live in Washington, D.C. I am wondering what you're hearing from people there about the mood of the city? Anything else that you heard from colleagues down there?

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, I think everybody is, I'm not sure everybody in the country is aware of it but Cedric Richmond is the star pitcher from the Democrats and he's a congressman from Louisiana. And chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus. Cedric Richmond was also star baseball player at Morehouse and so, he's like a real baseball player.


PERINO: I think he had it triple earlier.

WILLIAMS: But he wins a lot. But last year he lost. And so, he and Scalise, they know each other from the Louisiana legislature. Last night, and this is kind of, you know, the inside Capitol Hill Tucker today, Richmond spent time with Scalise and Scalise's family. And I don't think most people would appreciate or understand that this strong Democrat from New Orleans is pals with Scalise, who was a strong Republican from --

PERINO: And didn't Congressman Richmond come to defend Scalise who was attacked --

WILLIAMS: On racial ground.

PERINO: Unfairly on racial ground.

WILLIAMS: Right. And something strongly touted to me by my son.

PERINO: That's true. Greg, are you enjoying the game so far?

GUTFELD: I was thinking, how ironic it would if there was a brawl?


They were like, we are talking about unity, we're talking about unity, now all of a sudden, there's a brush back pitch. Somebody -- but anyway, one thing I find like refreshing is that people are talking about, I'm glad that Scalise is hopefully getting better but the two other victims, Matt Mika, who was still in critical condition. And he's suffered massive trauma, who was shot in the chest. He can't breathe on his own. He has got to have more surgery. So, you know, and then there's this guy, Zach Barth who was shot in the leg and then shows up for work the next day. And like, it makes me think, you know, think about --

GUILFOYLE: How amazing is that?

GUTFELD: The next time, you know, I am debating about going to work because I have an ocular migraine or stuffy nose, I got to think of this guy, Zach Barth who limp in after being shot. It's like I got no excuses.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. I'm going to remind you that.

PERINO: Dedicated staff there on Capitol Hill.

GUILFOYLE: And Bobby Jindal went too to visit Scalise just tonight.

PERINO: Mr. Scalise, that's awesome. All right. Despite yesterday's political violence, a theater group here in New York City that still putting on a play that depicts an assassination of President Trump. Why doesn't the left wanted shut down? Analysis, up ahead


WATTERS: As we reported on Monday, the New York Public Theater putting on a production this week of Julius Caesar that features the assassination of a President Trump-like character. Despite yesterday's assassination attempt on Republicans, the play is still going on as scheduled. Why isn't the left helping to get this shut down now that they are all of a sudden calling for unity?

Time Warner see us as his company is proud sponsoring the theater that is putting on this trash. It's not the first example of anti-Trump entertainers promoting violence. Kathy Griffin just held that bloodied severed head, and who could forget the Snoop Dogg music video from March? Oh, boy!

So, Greg, would the theater pulling the performance on the heels of the Scalise assassination attempt be admitting to the left that may be some of the stuff does have an effect and that's why they don't want to do it?

GUTFELD: You know, it's weird, I differentiate between -- whether it's abysmal art or not and what I talked about before about decades of anti- West fervor. I don't want them to stop it. I mean, maybe if they took a day off, that's fine.

WATTERS: Symbolically.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I don't want them to stop it. I want people to go there and feel really weird and feel a bit of shame when they are there. Because they went there to look at the spectacle and to feel how funny this is. If they go and they feel a little bit of shame and maybe they feel a little stupid and that maybe this isn't that edgy, and this is just the way that scores coop point, you never become less cool making fun of Trump in this kind of arena.

WATTERS: Yes. Because the arena is populated by Democrats. I mean, it's a theater production. In Manhattan. And it's probably being I think seen by mostly Democrats, and it's a, you know, there is a Democratic media here. There's not calling this thing out. They're supportive of it. The mayors, Democrats, I think that's why they are kind of in a cocoon?

PERINO: Well, possibly, and I think that they believe that there is honor in defiance.


PERINO: So, that they feel like that makes them look courageous. But I'm also, again, as I said the other day, I am for the First Amendment for the polling as it is. I wouldn't attend it. And wouldn't support it. And I wouldn't sponsor it. I do think that the Time Warner is interesting because I think that it's almost like they're making a play to help bolster their brand by being defiant. So, they're making a choice.


PERINO: Whether or not that works for them, you know, and if they can sleep at night, or whatever. But if they think that it helps them with the bottom-line, you might see more of this. Yes. There is a real difference here, and if you look at something that, you know, Ariana Grande who has given the concert in Manchester, England that then there was the horrible terror attack, a week later she returns with several other stars basically to fight back against terrorism. And you think, well, gosh, couldn't we -- maybe we could also play for a night even.


PERINO: . as artists to try to help everybody. For all who supposed to improve our rhetoric, why cannot start with them?

WATTERS: Yeah, they could have done some sort of symbolic twist all through it or maybe take a night off. Kimberly, "The New York Times" materialized on this and said, the response that you are seeing in some places like Fox, maybe, it's exaggerated outrage to get back at liberals. What do you make of that interpretation of this analysis?

GUILFOYLE: Shortsighted and inaccurate. Not very responsible. Because I think what you see here, this has been a big progression coming for by the media, by academia, by elites. Wants to sit there and cast aspersions and destabilize I believe the government and a duly elected president of the united states with these comments, this vitriol which is inciting violence. And it's in such horribly poor taste that they are still going forward for this just to be sensational. There's no even contemplative thoughts for decency or civility to do this. Yes, it's their First Amendment, right?


GUILFOYLE: But it doesn't mean that it's okay or that it's good. For Time Warner to stake a claim, it seems like they are (inaudible) after the MSNBC people and trying to maybe get some of the -- their viewership by doing this. And they are grandstanding and at what cost to society and to people's lives? How many people have to be injured or, you know, attempted assassinations for them to wake up and realize that this is serious?

WATTERS: That's actually the point. So, we showed the Kathy Griffin beheading, Juan. We have the Snoop Dog assassination. But I have a list of 15 examples of celebrities here saying they want to kill President Trump. Some of these things I can't even read, they are so disgusting. These are high-profile celebrities. At what point -- what has to happen for people to just calm down here? Is it going to take another situation like we had yesterday? I mean, where's the line?

WILLIAMS: Well, I hope this is the line. You know, I heard today people saying, you know, this is my breaking point. I just think we need to cool out a little bit. I appreciated that. I think that's a good idea. I think it's horrific. I mean, you can have differences with President Trump but you don't want violence in this country.

By the way, if you actually have ever read or viewed Julius Caesar, things don't turn out so great for the people who are involved in the assassination. The director of the play in defending it says this is an opportunity to chew over politics in a way that allows us to not be engaged in violence but to actually be thoughtful about it. That is what art is. That's why the First Amendment exists.

I don't think that people who are my conservative friends who always are objecting to folks who would shut down discussion and debate on a college campus, would say now I want to shut down the theater and it's a Shakespearean play, it's not even some new play. And of course, we have the example of it, it was done with Obama as Julius Caesar not long ago in Minneapolis.

WATTERS: I wonder if the people watching the play would see it as a pro- Trump performance, I'm not so sure.

WILLIAMS: No, just like the thing, you know, I mean, it's interesting with Snoop, you know.

WATTERS: Uh-hmm.

WILLIAMS: My objection is that Snoop have to do with pornography and celebration of violence and the image projects the black men which I think is tawdry. I wish people would get mad at that rather than (inaudible).

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and against women too.

GUTFELD: (inaudible).

WATTERS: All right. President Trump fired up on Twitter again today on the witch hunt and on obstruction of justice insanity when we return.


GUILFOYLE: Welcome back. We are still keeping a close eye on the congressional baseball game in Washington, D.C., and we will return to that in a moment. But first, President Trump firing back at the reports that he is now under investigation by the special counsel for a possible obstruction of justice, tweeting, you are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in American political history.

He also offered this reminder. Crooked Hillary destroyed phones with hammer, "bleached" emails, and had husband meet with AG days before she was cleared. And they talk about obstruction? Ken Starr famously investigated the Clinton administration and he is defending Mr. Trump.


KEN STARR, FORMER INDEPENDENT COUNSEL: It's too soon to tell. From what I have seen, and of course, we don't know a whole lot. But the answer is no. But it's going to be investigated. And so we will soon know. Obstruction of justice is really a very hard crime to make out. It's not just you want the investigation to go away, you suggested the investigation goes away, you have to take a really affirmative action.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana, Ken Starr there on that clip from this morning defending President Trump and saying essentially, you know, there isn't any evidence thus far of obstruction of justice.

PERINO: Well, he would know, he was one of the most famous special counsel in our lifetime for sure.


PERINO: I would point people to Karl Rove's column today in the Wall Street Journal in which he talks about having been in the site of the special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, who knew on the first day that the underlying issue -- okay, they are telling us that the game has ended in Washington, D.C. I believe the Democrats prevailed in this game.

GUILFOYLE: Democrats prevailed, yeah.

PERINO: But a wonderful event.

GUTFELD: Fake news.


GUTFELD: It's fake news.


PERINO: It does not have any bearing on the future of what will happen in congress.


PERINO: Yeah, a really great night. It was fun to be able to carry it tonight. I've never actually been an announcer for a baseball game, but I think I might keep this as a possibility.

GUTFELD: Do you know what this is?

PERINO: What? What is it called?

GUTFELD: This is the happy high line.

PERINO: Okay, the happy high line.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

PERINO: Good job, good game. If I can say -- I do think that people should look at -- back to the topic at hand. Karl Rove was a target of Patrick Fitzgerald for a long time even do, and so was Scooter Libby, even though Patrick Fitzgerald knew on the first day that the underlying issue of who has (inaudible) Valerie Plame's name (ph) was done by Dick Armitage, the deputy secretary of state.

And there were other people in Washington including people senior at the state department who knew about this and still said nothing and let people twist in the wind like that. I can understand the concern. However, I don't think "The Washington Post" story should be a cause for concern for the president.

And I also think that Bob Mueller is a guy, whose basically character is being attacked right now, and he is not a showboat like Jim Comey, that was the accusation about him. He's keeping his head down. You don't see him out there defending himself. I'm sure that he wants to wrap this up as soon as everybody else does.

GUILFOYLE: I'm sure. Okay. Jesse?

WATTERS: Well, I mean, there are a lot of leaks coming out of Mueller's investigative team.

PERINO: No, actually the leaks.

WATTERS: They're not?

PERINO: . the leaks started after they started interviewing the lawyers for those people. I think from their team.

WATTERS: Perhaps, perhaps.

PERINO: Not necessarily from their team. There have been many leaks in 30 days from that team.

WATTERS: Well, perhaps. But I think right now after you see this report, you are wondering who is leaking. We don't know who's leaking. Someone's talking.

PERINO: The White House.

WATTERS: It's not a good look for the investigation. It does not reflect well on the investigation. Let's just put it that way. And it raises questions again of impartiality. But if you look at what you just said earlier, actually yesterday, I think this is just the first normal step in the investigative process where you ask people what happened. It looks like a fact finding investigation. There have been a lot of leaks that have turned out to be wrong though.

I think in one week alone in May, "The Washington Post" had four stories all turned out to be wrong. Deputy attorney general threatened to quit, wrong. FBI Director Comey fired after asking for more investigative funds, wrong. Trump revealed classified information to the Russians, wrong. Republicans treat rape as a pre-existing condition, wrong. Also suspicious timing on the announcement of "The Washington Post" story. So, I think we just have to wait until the facts come out.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So, Juan, your thoughts on this. The timing, the leaks, and also would you like to make a comment on the game?

WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know much about the game. I think the politics here and politics -- how it impacts the press, I think there is a legitimate reason for Jesse to say, is it right or wrong for Trump to question? I don't know about the witch hunt stuff.

I think this is pretty serious because today, Vice President Pence went and got his own lawyer. This is not something that would say, oh, what's the big deal? All of a sudden the vice president gets his own lawyer.


WILLIAMS: I agree. That's a pretty serious thing.

GUILFOYLE: That's ridiculous if he didn't. I mean, you have to be able to - - especially with what's going on. You have no idea where people are going with these things.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's correct.

GUILFOYLE: Innocence isn't going to matter if they are coming after you. You have to be represented regardless. Otherwise, you have a big problem. Gregan?

GUTFELD: You are the only person that calls me Gregan. It shows that the media and the Democrats are in cahoots. They changed their narrative exactly at the same time. So originally, it was going to be collusion. That fell apart. Immediately, everybody rushed to obstruction.

But you can't obstruct a false narrative. I mean, it can't happen. So when that falls apart, we need to predict what the next charge is going to be. Will Donald Trump be accused of building a time machine that took them back to the '90s and he set Monica Lewinsky up with Bill Clinton?

WATTERS: In gold time machine.

GUTFELD: In gold time machine. Or maybe he will drug Hillary so he tripped going into the van. I bet we can come up with some really juicy little pass for the dems and the media to collude on. There is a collusion, America.

GUILFOYLE: And there you go. Again, you're looking at the game there in Washington, D.C. Bipartisan gamesmanship in a good way. Raising money a lot of money for a very worthwhile charity tonight. Obviously everyone thinking about Congressman Scalise.

When "The Five" returns, the father of Otto Warmbier, the American held captive by North Korea, lashes out at the brutal regime that just sent his son home in an unresponsive state. He also has some words for the Obama administration. That is all next.



FRED WARMBIER, FATHER OF RELEASED AMERICAN PRISONER: We are thrilled that our son is on American soil. We are in the school that he thrived in. And I am able to talk to you on Otto's behalf. I am able to wear the jacket that he wore when he gave his confession.


WILLIAMS: An emotional news conference today in Ohio. The father of American student Otto Warmbier taking questions from reporters on his son's horrific time in captivity in North Korea. Mr. Warmbier tormented a brutal (ph) regime for taking his loved one hostage, brutalizing, terrorizing him, finally sending him back to America in an unresponsive state. Fred Warmbier thanked the Trump administration for all it did to secure Otto's release. He also had some words for the previous administration.


WILLIAMS: We received a very nice phone call from President Trump who told us that Secretary of State Tillerson worked hard to help bring Otto home. We are extremely grateful for their efforts and concern. Do I think the past of administration could have done more? I think the results speak for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIAMS: Mr. Warmbier described his reunion with his son in an exclusive interview with Tucker Carlson tonight.


WARMBIER: Being able to see Otto for the first time in, gosh, I bet it's 18 months, it was fantastic. It's great to have him with us. I'm very proud of him. He's with his family.


WILLIAMS: If you missed that interview, very emotional, you can -- it was tonight. But you can catch it again at 11:00 p.m. eastern. Kimberly, what do you think about -- I guess people don't picked up on the fact that the he seemed to indicate he thought the Obama administration could have done more.

GUILFOYLE: Well, certainly, right? That's what he's saying. Look at his son. Look at the evidence. Look at the state in which his son returned. I'm sure they made efforts. Just to try to be able to get from all the reports and information is that they were -- this administration was quite forceful in using our envoy to be able to negotiate this and try to bring some resolution. And then also, the medical condition that Otto was in.

Obviously, the last thing they want is if he passed away there instead of being here. It's just horrible. But obviously, what they did, what North Korea did to this -- to me, that's a war crime. To do this to that young man, who is very healthy, a great athlete, smart and kind, beloved by so many that knew him, and to put him through that torture and that abuse? I mean, if anything says that Kim Jong-un should go, it's this.

WILLIAMS: You know, Jesse, I'm so glad you're here because I wanted to ask you about Dennis Rodman. He's over there. The young man was released before Rodman got there. But there are other people being held. Is it possible that Rodman, who is a friend of the president, could be acting as an envoy?

WATTERS: Perhaps. Or this is a Rodman stunt. You don't know really what's going on with Dennis Rodman. Hopefully he goes over there with some goodwill and can get something positive.

GUILFOYLE: (inaudible) part of the deal.

WATTERS: Yeah, I mean, I'm not completely sure Rodman is going to create peace on the DMD (ph). But I'm just as upset as Kimberly about this. I mean, this is humiliating. This is degrading. This is dehumanizing. I'm sickened by it. I'm disgusted by the fact that North Korea would send this guy back in this second state.

It's disgusting. I hope the Trump administration punishes North Korea as severely as they possibly can. I know you can't do much in that kingdom. It's so isolated. But this is totally unacceptable.


WATTERS: To parade this guy out in this condition and just treat him like garbage like that. And discard him because you can't take care of him anymore. Because it's too expensive or you don't want him to die. I mean, it is just unbelievable.

WILLIAMS: So, Dana, having been inside and watched these things happen, how does this now impact the difficult relationship between U.S. and North Korea when it comes to nuclear weapons?

PERINO: I think it actually strengthens America's hand. America has a strong hand in this, anyway. I think that other regimes that are holding some of our hostages like for example we have Americans who are being held in very tough prison in Iran. Those are deteriorating situations as well.

And so I think this shows that the administration is on top of it. It's not that the previous administration wasn't. I don't want to go that far. I do know that the North Koreans rejected all requests since March of 2016 until just recently. I think that is because of the worsening condition of this young man.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Greg, Jesse is so hard on Rodman. I'm wondering what you think.

GUTFELD: Well, if Rodman is going there to promote something like a pot coin that he was wearing a shirt like that, this is just a ploy to make money and not to do anything else, then he should stay there, we shouldn't let him come back. That's how I feel. I agree with everybody here that I think this is an act of war. This is like an ISIS execution.


GUTFELD: It was done to humiliate and hurt and it's disgusting. I don't know what the solution is because you bombed this country out of the existence over one act, I mean, do you do that? I don't know, but it's like.

WATTERS: You feel like you want to have that done. GUTFELD: I feel like you want to do it, but obviously you can't. It reminds me that -- you might remember this, Juan. The Jewish elderly man in the wheelchair that was pushed off the boat.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.

GUTFELD: Achille.

WILLIAMS: Achille Lauro.

GUTFELD: Achille Lauro. That's what it feels like. It was done just as a screw you. Pushed Leon, I can't.

WILLIAMS: Right, right, right.

GUTFELD: Leon Klinghoffer.


GUTFELD: Anyway.

WILLIAMS: All right. More highlights from today's emotional baseball game in D.A. ahead and Jesse got a cutout for a special assignment. So, he won't be here for the next segment. But you, you are going to find out where Jesse is going on Saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. Back in a moment.





GUTFELD: Big night. The Democrats won. At least they finally won something. Joke stolen from (inaudible) thoughts.

PERINO: A great joke. I thought that -- obviously the congressmen showed at the play tonight which was great. But there were 20,000 people in the stands and a lot of those are congressional staffers. I started there in my career in 1995 on the hill. I love that game.

I love going to it. All of you showed up tonight shows how dedicated you are. As Greg mentioned earlier, Zachary Barth showing up to work the day after he was shot shows a lot of dedication. So, our hats are off to you as well.

GUTFELD: We are slackers, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I know, exactly, just you. A nice dinner that the Democrats hosted for the Republicans ahead of time before.

GUTFELD: Juan, you got five seconds.

WILLIAMS: You know what? They raised like three times as much money as that little game has ever raised. It will go for good causes around the city. But great to see people come together and join a sense of human beings and not always throwing punches and being balls in a partisan polarized America.

GUTFELD: All right. Set your DVR. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.

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