Who Is Really Winning and Losing in the Wisconsin Budget Bill Standoff?

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," March 4, 2011. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Who is really winning in Wisconsin? Is it the governor [Scott Walker], the protesters or senate Democrats? And what about those citizens of Wisconsin? Former Clinton adviser and author of the new book, "Revolt! How to Defeat Obama and Repeal His Socialist Program," Dick Morris joins us. Good evening, Dick. And before we talk about your book, who's winning, who's losing in Wisconsin?

DICK MORRIS, AUTHOR, "REVOLT": Walker's winning. The Democrats are losing. And the unions are losing big-time. They're working on a deal now. They're holding discussions, which is forced by two actions of Walker. One is, he cut off their pay. Secondly, he said that, If you ever set foot in Wisconsin, we'll arrest you and bring you into the Senate. And that means they can't go back and forth and visit. Before that, they were only liable to arrest when the legislature was sitting.

And finally, he made clear that unless they come back and vote his savings program, he's going to have to lay off 1,500 workers. So the clock's ticking, and I think they're giving in.

Now, they're negotiating. The key thing Walker wants to protect, and I don't think he's giving in on this and I don't think he will, is limiting collective bargaining to wages and benefits so that he can proceed with his education reforms. The other thing he wants is that the unions have to collect their dues, rather than have it automatically deducted. That'll cut their dues collections in half. And he wants them to pay more for health insurance and pensions.

He's going to win all of those elements. The two things he's going to compromise on are ancillary parts of his package. There's a limit -- a bill that says you can only negotiate a cost of living adjustment up to the rate of inflation in your contracts, unless the voters waive that in a referendum. That provision may be thrown out. And the other is he says that every year, the union has to stand for election with its own members and get kind of re -- recertified. That may be dropped also. And I think that might be a face-saving compromise for the Democrats. But [also] a big victory for Walker.

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't see that happening because I -- I mean, we've had -- we've had both sides of the aisle on this for the past two nights. And you know, there's always bravado and people say it's never going to happen, but it ultimately does. But I haven't seen, like, one little -- little -- even little tiny bit of give on either side on this particular issue.

MORRIS: Yes. Well, I'm in touch with a lot of those people, and I think this is the inside story of what's happening.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I hope you're right, but so far, we haven't seen them. All right, what about, though, the people of Wisconsin? Because one of the big issues is that if, indeed, it's true that now they can't refinance the bond so that they save $30 million or $165 million, whatever these huge numbers are, someone -- if that's a big hit for taxpayers, someone's going to have to pay the price for that ear. Do you think it'll be the Republicans or the Democrats?

MORRIS: Yes. With the interest rate so low, the state can take bonds that it sold at a higher rate and refinance them, just like homeowners do with their mortgages. But they can't do it unless the legislature approves it. It would be approved unanimously, but they got to be there because they need a quorum. So the Democrats are going to force these lay-offs, as opposed to the relatively easy thing of lowering the interest rate on your debt. So I think they're going to be forced back.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, we'll have to wait and see. All right, now, brand-new book, "Revolt! How to Defeat Obama and Repeal His Socialist Programs." I guess we know how you feel about President Obama.

MORRIS: Well, you know, Greta, we're all in the same boat these days, all conservatives. We're asking the same question. We won a couple of governorships. We won some state legislatures. We got control of the House, but we still have a hostile Senate and we still have President Obama. So how do we repeal these programs, how do we cut back the spending and still defeat him in 2010?

And this book answers that question. It's a 300-page road map that tells you how to defund "Obama care," how to protect talk radio from the FCC, how to stop the EPA from regulating carbon and how to reduce the $1.6 trillion deficit with the Democrats kicking and screaming, how to beat them at it.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know...

MORRIS: And you know, Greta, when I was a kid, I -- kid, 15 years ago -- I ran Bill Clinton's side of this fight. So now I'm suggesting a game plan for the Republicans for their side.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, what I was surprised about in the book is you mention the Koch brothers, and it's, like, they've almost been sort of undercover with their contributions. But you totally talk about how much - - you know, about the fact that they're big contributors. I'm -- I'm -- why did you put them in there?

MORRIS: Well, the Koch -- well, the Koch brothers have just done an enormous amount of wonderful things to fund and support conservative causes. They also funded the Metropolitan Opera and the Metropolitan Museum and give away over $100 million to charity.

VAN SUSTEREN: But...

MORRIS: And they really are an example of -- they're the conservative equivalent to Bill Gates.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you know, the -- but I think that many people think that -- will say they're the conservative equivalent of George Soros.

MORRIS: No. I think that George Soros fundamentally believes -- well, I mean, they disagree, so I think George Soros is destructive and Bill Gates and the Koch brothers are positive. But I suppose that's a fair comparison. They're each underwriting their political movements. I just happen to think the Koch brothers are right.

VAN SUSTEREN: Dick, thank you. And of course, Dickmorris.com is the website, as well. Thank you, Dick.

MORRIS: Thank you.