White House defends Trump tweet slamming Al Franken
Press secretary Sarah Sanders addresses criticism saying the president had already weighed in on allegations against Roy Moore; reaction and analysis on 'The Five.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 17, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Pete Hegseth and Kennedy. It's 5:00 in New York City, and this is "The Five." Minnesota senator Al Franken's political future is remain uncertain as he faces an ethics probe in the Senate and growing calls for his resignation in the wake of sexual misconduct allegation. President Trump weighed in on the scandal via Twitter today, he says the Al Frankenstein picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words. Where do his hands go in picture 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 while she sleeps? And to think that just last week he was lecturing anyone who would listen about sexual harassment and respect for women. Lesley Stahl tape. Today, the White House addressed criticism of that comment, some calling it hypocritical for the president to tweet about Franken and not about Roy Moore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has weight on Roy Moore. He did it while his on a foreign trip in Asia. I did it repeatedly yesterday. In fact, I took about 15 questions on that topic, and only one on Al Franken. So to suggest that this White House and specifically that this president hasn't weighed in is just inaccurate and wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So Kimberly, I don't blame reporters for asking about what seems like an inconsistency there. The answer is -- what it is, she basically saying -- I think they're sticking to their guns. They're not going to comment on it. And they don't police his twitter. He does it himself. But I don't blame the reporters for asking. What do you think?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: They've got to ask the question, of course. And I think the answer is kind of consistent with how they handle things. I mean, she's got to do her job, and it's got to be under the direction of the president. He really kind of speaks his own mind. His tweets speak for themselves. He tells you how feel. And yes, you can say, well, he comment on one but not on the other. So, of course, the other side is going to say this appears to be an inconsistency. But I will say this, the distinction I think with the Al Franken case, just from speaking like a prosecutor, when you look at the fact and the evidence in front of you, there is an actual photographic picture that shows what transpired. You can argue the statement. He admitted it. Apologized, essentially. So it's less of a due process issue as to exactly what happened and so many years ago, etcetera, etcetera. So I think it's more persuasive compelling evidence perhaps. Little further along in the process.
PERINO: Well, that was one of the things, Juan, that also came up in the briefing, when the question about the Al Franken had apologized for allegations and allegations against others are just still allegations, which is why the attack was worthwhile. Your thoughts on that?
JUAN WILLIAMS, "THE FIVE" CO-HOST: Well, I don't think there's much in the way of saying that there's equivalence here because to my mind there's a photograph of Al Franken, I guess his positioning himself as if his touching this woman, but we have a tape from '05 of President Obama bragging about what he does with women if he finds them attractive, just kiss them, grab the...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, what?
PERINO: You accidentally said President Obama.
WILLIAMS: Oh, I meant President Trump.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: My brain is slipping out.
PERINO: We thought you were breaking news.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. President Obama -- President Trump, I can't stop. And then you have, you know, 16 women who said that President Trump was aggressive with them or violated them in some way. And we've never gone through all of that. But, clearly, President Trump thinks that that's stuff has been dealt with, it's in the past. The American people elected him president, and he's not subject to it. But I just thought it was incredibly unwise of him to open this door. It was Pandora's Box.
PERINO: Throwing stones from a glass house. Democrats have circled around, and for the most part, backing Al Franken. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Unwanted sexual advances, groping, or harassment are never OK. They're never acceptable, never funny. I think an ethics investigation is absolutely appropriate. He's worked with me and my colleagues on both sides of the aisle. But this kind of conduct is totally unacceptable, abhorrent and repugnant. And I think Al Franken's apology recognizes it.
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexual harassment is inappropriate in every circumstance in every way, whoever is involved. So let's start with that. And I do support that there should be ethics investigation. And we'll see where it ends up.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: This kind of behavior has been swept under the rug for too long. And I will tell you, in general, there is absolutely no place for that kind of behavior in the United States congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So Pete, they're OK with the -- they accept the apology. They want an investigation. And other than that, I think they might not be anything more that happened, unlike other places like just this week a CEO had to step down after allegations that made people uncomfortable. And so he actually lost his job. So inconsistent all across the board depending whatever industry you're looking at.
PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: There much so. There is no consistent standard. You look at Republican and Democrats, the double standard is rampant. I mean, maybe the president hasn't call for Roy Moore to step down. But how many Republicans senators have.
PERINO: True.
HEGSETH: Dozens of them. Telling him to leave the race or be unseated. Of course, how many Democrats senators had called for Al Franken to resign? Zero, at this point. And what are they calling for? An ethics committee investigation. Those senators called for, Chuck Schumer has called for it, Durbin, Klobuchar, McCaskill, and even Al Franken himself is saying investigate me to the ethics committee. A couple of facts about the Senate Ethics Committee...
PERINO: He really doesn't like himself.
(LAUGHTER)
HEGSETH: No, no, he does like himself. And he wants to preserve himself because here's what the Senate Ethics Committee does...
PERINO: I knew what you were saying.
(CROSSTALK)
HEGSETH: I'm sorry about that. I'm warming up here. In the last decade, the Senate Ethics Committee has investigated 613 allegations in this committee, 613 allegations over the last decade. Seventy five investigations, all anonymous, no consequences, not a single senator had yet to be found -- any sanctions against.
PERINO: Wow.
HEGSETH: Yeah, investigate because they will be found innocent no matter what.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY, FOX BUSINESS HOST: I realize that this is a mass heavy show. I'll try.
PERINO: I mean you're from Boston...
KENNEDY: But appears as though instead of a zero tolerance policy there is a 100 percent tolerance policy if there is no punishment or no responsibility to anyone of these people.
HEGSETH: One hundred percent posturing policy.
KENNEDY: What's really interesting here is this entire thing, if they end up backing Al Franken, which I imagine they're going to. I imagine, you know, this is all a big dog and pony show. They've been giving their talking points. They have to say, blah, blah, blah, ethics investigation, blah, blah, blah, including Al Franken have to say the same thing. Because otherwise if they don't do anything it completely neuters their argument against the president, and that's one of the favorite Democratic talking points about the president is his past political correctness. Where does it end? I also think that the president -- I agree with you, he should be tweeting about Roy Moore. And he's got a political leg to stand because he can say and he loves being right. I was the one who back Luther Strange. That was a much better choice. If you all have listened to me, you wouldn't be in this pickle. So...
PERINO: And when he tweet he definitely do the Y'all, like you just said it.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Every reporter that has to read the tweet will have to say Y'all.
WILLIAMS: That's true. Maybe they could also say bless your heart to all of the Republicans who wants to make a false equivalency between the charges against Moore dealing with a 14-year-old girl, and the allegation hearing against Senator Franken.
PERINO: He confirmed that it happened.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I'm saying -- well, the idea is that this picture that he's actually groping the woman. I don't know if he is pretending.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: But there is a big difference between what Al Franken is being charged with and what we know about the charges...
KENNEDY: I think that's right. And I think there's an important distinction to be made there.
PERINO: And they also think and that's what Pete saying is true, Kimberly, that 43 U.S. senators have said no more. And also, President Trump is head of the Republican Party. The Republican national committee has withdrawn funds from the race. So in a way, I think it's something they could say at the briefing today, which is that the party has spoken.
GUILFOYLE: The party has spoken.
PERINO: That is what they could have said.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. So it's been handled. The party has spoken very loudly, and also with their financial power. They pulled that back. So I think there has been a very swift and judicious response from the Republicans. And I think it is clear that there's hypocrisy on the part of the left and the Democrats. I mean, again, Juan, he didn't like he do it, or it's isn't me, or it's my doppelganger in the photo. He's like, I'm sorry, I did it, OK, and that's that.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I think there's a big difference between Roy Moore and Senator Franken...
GUILFOYLE: You mean the nature of the allegations?
WILLIAMS: Both the nature of the allegations. But here's what's going on, Kimberly. It becomes like a team sport. It's like, oh...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: ... if you're a Republican, oh, we'll find a way to say don't say anything about. But if a Democrat, oh, let all hell break loose. This is ridiculous. It's hypocritical.
HEGSETH: Democrats say to the party of women, and the Republicans are committing a war on women, and yet when someone comes out with actual evidence they say Senate ethics investigation...
WILLIAMS: What are you talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: You know Donald Trump? What about evidence about Donald Trump?
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Eleven women, eleven. And let me just say to Kimberly. Kimberly, the GOP of Alabama is still backing Roy Moore. Steve Bannon is still backing Roy Moore.
GUILFOYLE: OK...
WILLIAMS: Sean Hannity is still backing Roy Moore.
GUILFOYLE: Steve Bannon is an individual citizen. He can do whatever he wants. He is his own man to make his own decision.
WILLIAMS: Where all a sudden is your outrage as a Republicans to continuing to support Roy Moore?
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: The state GOP, yes, you're right. They'll have to deal with the consequence of that if they lose the race, and also just morally. But the RNC, which the president oversea, did withdraw funds from Roy Moore. And I think that is a statement. My only point was that today one of the things that they could have said at the White House is that we have spoken. Money speaks loudly. We're not supporting this race.
WILLIAMS: That would have been better. But, you know, it's interesting to me, Ivanka, the first daughter comes out and say there's a special place in hell for people who abuse children. Breitbart comes out and say, oh, Ivanka should shut up. She has no place, no standing to say...
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: That's the difference. I think everyone has the right to say something. If you're offended, if you are outrage, if you are moved by something, and she is a mom, she may have a different perspective than other people. She absolutely has the right to say that. She's not saying you people of Alabama, absolutely, has to force him out of the race, and we have to do anything in our power. She's not affecting the race. She's expressing an opinion.
HEGSETH: That's exactly right. And why does Juan Williams gets to decide or any politician in Washington, D.C. Let the voters in Alabama decide. Let the voter in Minnesota decides, whether they like that person representing them. That's what I think so many people represent -- reject. These elites who are hypocrites themselves telling them what they need to do...
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Well, I think one of the reasons the RNC pulled out though is because everyone will be tarred with it. And every single ad going into 2018 and into 2020 will be tied to him. I think that was the attempt, initially to say they believed the women were credible from the Washington Post piece, there'll be more to come. They're might be so more to come on the Al Franken story. And the congressional story is not over. And there are gradations of all of this. There are victims to be considered. We have not talked a lot about them.
KENNEDY: But there are cultural and political ramifications for both parties, and neither side wants to be the one who doesn't deal appropriately with sexual harassment claims. I think it's a bigger gamble for the Democrats who've really taken the high road in some of these cases that hit awfully close...
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: You're saying it's because the Democrats has stood up for women's rights, especially...
HEGSETH: They postured.
WILLIAMS: ... pro-choice, among others.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Guess what? With Bill Clinton from Harvey...
WILLIAMS: Right. But they're not. And I mean, gosh, it seems to me that Democrats -- no, they returned a lot of that money. Even now they're returning money from Al Franken, and Al Franken committee. Yeah. What I was saying is the reason that the Brietbart guy was telling Ivanka Trump, the first daughter, to shut up was because it opened the door, just as President Trump did last night with his tweet, to people like me saying, hey, wait a second. Are you guys forgetting the charges against Donald Trump?
HEGSETH: The door is always been wide open on that. That's litigated for a year.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: We could talk about this again in the B-block, so there's more because some Democrats are now revisiting the past accusation against Bill Clinton in the wake of all the new misconduct scandal. That's where it all started. Details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: The new accusations against Al Franken have forced his party to address other skeletons in its closet. Listen to this quote from McClatchy, Democrats called Al Franken's behavior unacceptable, and hinted that they'd eventually demand he resign. Anything less would risk catastrophe for a party that stakes its political reputation on fighting for women. Especially one that is just now 20 years after the fact, grappling with its unyielding support of Bill Clinton. Some Democrats like New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand are no longer trying to cover for the former president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it your view that President Clinton should have stepped down at that time given the allegations?
UNINDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think that is the appropriate response. But I think things have changed today. And I think under those circumstances there should be a very different reaction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Goodness gracious. It is coming back to rear its ugly head. So what do you make of this, Kennedy, you're seeing some people taking a step out? You saw Chelsea Handler saying apologizing. You see now Kirsten Gillibrand saying wait a second, we've got to take a look at this.
KENNEDY: Did Elina Denim made this point, at least, privately to some very influential Hillary Clinton donors during the campaign cycle. I think that this is all a concerted effort along with Donna Brazile and Joe Biden to take Hillary Clinton down, so she doesn't think of running for president again, because she was the one who helped vilify these women, and they destroyed Monica Lewinsky's reputation and they made her out to be the villain in this case, although, obviously, she is not the one who held the power. The most powerful man in the world was the one who preyed on her. Not to mention the other women who came forward. Juanita Broderick responded to Chelsea Handler this week with a tweet of her own when Handler tweeted about Roy Moore.
GUILFOYLE: So Dana, now this really seems like it's getting a little bit of momentum, and they're actually are having a moral and ethical crisis that they have to confront.
PERINO: I just feel like, though, that it's super political convenient at this point because -- in 1997, when this broke, I think I was 23. I was working on Capitol Hill for a Republican member of congress. And we were working on the balance the budget amendment and welfare reform, and then this happened. I remember being so upset that you couldn't see any of the Democrats, women's groups coming out to defend Monica Lewinsky. And even now, with these current allegations, like if it's a Democrat that is accused then the Republicans -- automatically believe all of those accusers. If it's a Republican that's getting accused, immediately the Democrats believe all of their accusers. But now you get to a point where Senator Gillibrand said, well, we're in a different time now. So what's different now? The difference is the president of the United States is not Bill Clinton, and it's not a Democrat, and there's nothing to be gained from going out against Clinton anymore.
KENNEDY: Can I add something really quick to that? Because, you know, something that was very poignant at the time, because as you remember Oregon senator Bob Packwood was run out of office for doing stuff...
PERINO: Like before.
KENNEDY: Yes. So there were reporters who asked women's groups, you know, why did you force Packwood out, but you continue to support Bill Clinton? And they said, you know, very hypocritically, and quite honestly, well, he always supported us. But is that appropriate?
PERINO: We hear that now out of Minnesota. He is for our issues. I think that if the Democrats had resolved this at the time, the way they're talking about resolving it now, they might not have lost the next two elections. They're still paying the price for that decision.
GUILFOYLE: Lesson learned. And the real missed opportunity for the Democrats here to get out in front of this and do the right thing as they kind of mishandled this...
(CROSSTALK)
HEGSETH: I think one of them took the opportunity. So good for Kirsten Gillibrand for saying it, 2 years too late, 5 years too late, 10 years too late, 25 years too late, totally political expedient, and not courageous really at all because it's captain obvious statement. Will other Democrats say the same thing? And as you point in the previous segment they're the party of women, then they should be taking a hard line as they believe should be taken in every circumstance, including with Al Franken, but they're not. They're saying go to the Senate Ethics Committee where our buddies and our pals will exonerate you. That's not a consequence. And so, I don't think they've truly learned the lesson. There're definitely is a team sport ethos still.
WILLIAMS: I agree.
HEGSETH: And Republicans team up on Democrats and likewise.
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, you know, to me, there's a couple of things going on here. First let me just say, Bill Clinton was impeached. He was impeached. That is the kind of burden he's going to live with for the rest of his life. Everybody say, oh, you were the president that was impeached, and why were you impeached? And it was because of a relationship in which he had power over an intern and allowed the relationship she said was consensual, but in my book I don't see how you can be consensual. Talk about a power differential. The president of the United States and an intern, it's not good.
But I will say this, it seems to me that having been impeached and having taken on the bearings of the party that wants to represent the best interest of women, there is no getting away from the charge now of hypocrisy. So what you get is people like some of these Democrats saying, oh, Clinton should have resigned. Or you get writers and box in the New York Times even saying, I'm going back to look at this. I think again, in terms of the team sport aspect, they're protecting themselves against the charge of hypocrisy from Republicans. But do I think that after all this time, and believe me there were Republicans who attacked women going back, way back who had charges against Republican men. And now...
KENNEDY: One had lip stick on his collar.
(CROSSTALK)
KENNEDY: Bill Clinton was a two-term president. His wife if she weren't completely politically enough and totally lacking himself worse, she also would have been president. And he enriched himself to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: You didn't think he or she paid a political price?
HEGSETH: She paid an aspirin.
KENNEDY: She paid a political price because she was not a likeable person. She's an awful candidate...
WILLIAMS: Oh, I thought you were relating it to this. But I think...
KENNEDY: No, he almost dragged her carcass over the finish line.
WILLIAMS: Oh, OK. I'll let you go with that. But I will just say this, you know, so I wasn't 23 -- how old are you? Twenty three. I wasn't 23 in that era in Washington. But I got to tell you, I remember going up to Capitol Hill and thinking, what is going on here? The way these guys relate to women, and the way the women dress, this is not a workplace. This is wild.
PERINO: On Capitol Hill?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
PERINO: Are you kidding?
WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?
PERINO: We've got to wear jeans on Friday if our mail was done.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: OK. All right. Well the fight of tax reform have shifted to the Senate and the fireworks are flaring already. Things got very heated, very personal between two senators squaring off on the subject, right back with that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WILLIAMS: President Trump is celebrating his tax reform victory in the House, a bill that passed without a single Democratic vote. The president took the party to task in a tweet this morning, quote, if Democrats were not so obstructionist and understood the power of lower taxes we would be able to get many of their ideas into the bill, end quote. The president is promising great results if the tax package passes. But, gee whiz, it's fate uncertain in the Senate where tensions are flaring over the legislation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Before we go home, let's just acknowledge what is tax cut really is?
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Not for the middle class. It's for the rich.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: I come from the poor people, and I've been here working my whole stinking career for people who don't have a chance. And I really resent anybody saying that I'm just doing this for the rich. Give me a break. I think you guys overplay that all the time and it gets old. And frankly, you ought to quit.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: With all due respect, I get sick and tired...
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Regular order, Mr. Chairman.
(CROSSTALK)
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute...
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: Regular order.
UNINDENTIFIED MALE: ... over and over again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Wow. So, you know, that gets personal because Orrin Hatch is much respected across the aisle. And you see Sherrod Brown and Orrin Hatch going at it. I will put aside the substance of it. I will just say that, so far, what we see, Pete, in the polls, this is not popular with Republicans or Democrats.
HEGSETH: Well, let's wait and see how it actually plays out and what actually gets passed. Messaging is going to matter on this. If Orrin Hatch, the last time he got that excited was 1986. I mean, Orrin Hatch...
GUILFOYLE: He still got it.
HEGSETH: If he's that frustrated it shows how frustrated the Republicans are about the incredibly tired and not true argument that this tax reform plan is simply to benefit the rich. If you look at the plan, most of the frustration among conservative is that there's hidden tax bracket and no movement for the rich. And some of the reduction -- in deduction and simplification is going to hit the rich. So I wonder when the Democrats are going to actually find a talking point on this that is true. And when it turns out to not be true, and this cut does help the middle class, those poll numbers are going to boomerang right back in the direction of Republicans. So what it said right now is based on a framing that is totally untrue.
WILLIAMS: Well, let me just quickly come back to you and say I think that all of the analyses I've seen show disproportionate benefits to corporations and not individuals.
HEGSETH: Corporations hire people, including small businesses and large businesses, many of which have left this country leaving people to feel forgotten and pull the lever for Donald Trump.
WILLIAMS: Right, but I --
HEGSETH: If he can deliver those things --
KENNEDY: That's an empty argument.
WILLIAMS: What is?
KENNEDY: The idea that corporations are only made up of soulless billionaires. That's absolutely not true. What would you rather have: a better climate in this country, where corporations want to stay here and build things and employ people? Do you know what happens when you lower the corporate tax? Corporations have more money. They can hire more people. They can innovate. They can -- they can do things that are impossible when they're shackled by regulations in government.
Only big corporations can survive in an over-regulated environment, because they need ton and tons of lawyers to comply with all of those added federal regulations.
WILLIAMS: OK, but I must say that --
KENNEDY: If you like people, you want to lower corporate tax.
WILLIAMS: Let me just direct this to Dana, that Gary Cohn, when he was speaking at a Wall Street Journal event this week, asked corporate CEOs, "If this passes, are you going to invest more?" And few hands went up. And he's like, "Where are the rest of the hands? What's going on?
PERINO: Well, because I think because they were being honest, because they don't know exactly what's going to happen. They have to wait to see what sort of certainty they can have. And also because there are things like automation that are changing things.
And so -- but a lower -- regardless a lower corporate tax is better for the country. The question will be who can win in the messaging war? Because Democrats are going to try to do to the Republicans' tax reform plan what Republicans did to ObamaCare. Which is to drive up the negatives of that so much, regardless of what the actual merits were. And then vice versa. So it sort of depends.
But if the economy continues to do well, as it has been, and to get a boost to people and their paychecks; and the corporations see that they can plan to come back to America, I think it will be hard to say that it wasn't a success.
WILLIAMS: Kimberly, Ron Johnson, the senator from Wisconsin, has already said he -- a Republican -- has already said he can't support this. That's dragging down the numbers. Then you have people on the line.
So what do you think are the chances in this plan?
GUILFOYLE: You know, a bad move by him. Because he's kind of, like, standing alone on this.
Look, I think there's a lot of flux (ph) to it. And the point is that he's trying to do something that he promised the hard-working men and women in this country, that he was going to do something to give them some more economic opportunity and lower taxes. I mean, that's one of the platforms that he ran on. That's also supposed to be one of the big platforms for the Republican Party to be able to do this.
So they're trying to do it effectively. And I think the president has an excellent point when he says that Democrats are being obstructionist. Because there's things in this that they would like. This is far -- a total, like, hand-out to the rich. It's not just trying to pull the rich up higher. This is actually trying to do comprehensive reform to be able to move forward. Is there other things that I would like to see in it, to be a little bit more aggressive in terms? Absolutely.
PERINO: They're going to.
KENNEDY: Don't delay lowering the corporate -- lowering the corporate tax rate.
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.
KENNEDY: No. 1. And No. 2, Johnson is right about that passthrough rate for small businesses and sole proprietorships. And they can actually do a lot more in the Senate. And I think that's a negotiating point for him. I don't think he's a firm no. I think that that is such a solid sell.
And you're absolutely right. The Republicans need to do a much better job of messaging here.
PERINO: They're also going to lower the top rate.
WILLIAMS: All right, guys. You know what? We have to run. But believe me, we're going to argue taxes. Don't worry. There's more on this argument.
Anyway, pass the mashed potatoes but hold the politics at the Thanksgiving dinner table this year. We're going to explain what's going to go on over those legs, next.
GUILFOYLE: Huh?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEGSETH: Welcome back to midtown Manhattan.
Well, Thanksgiving, a quintessentially American holiday, is a time for togetherness. So if you want to have that bonding time, you might want to steer clear of politics this year.
Last year's turkey day, last year, fell two weeks after the bitterly-contested presidential election. New data now shows that dining among politically-divided families, those dinners were actually cut short by an average of 20 to 30 minutes just two weeks after the election.
So maybe stick to talk about food, family or football next Thursday. But when you're talking about football, maybe stay away from controversy.
Who here has, you know, divided political families?
GUILFOYLE: No, I divorced him.
KENNEDY: Very simple.
HEGSETH: Now you have all the time you want.
GUILFOYLE: No more Thanksgiving with Nancy Pelosi.
WILLIAMS: Boy, that was --
KENNEDY: Oh, no! Tell me that didn't happen.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, it did.
HEGSETH: We're going to have to hear about that later, for sure. This was a working paper, Juan, by a couple of professors. They followed ten million smart phones that were at their house and went to Thanksgiving and back, and it showed that typically, Republicans left a little bit earlier than Democrats.
Now, do you have a mixed Thanksgiving?
WILLIAMS: I have mixed every day!
Not only am I here with my lovely Republican pals on the "The Five," but if I go home, I've got Republican sons. And if you might say, Pete -- Pete, I can imagine you're imagining, "Juan, why do you have Republican sons? Why are they so conservative?"
HEGSETH: That's right.
WILLIAMS: And I think to myself, Pete, have you met their mother?
KENNEDY: Oh, really?
HEGSETH: Do you avoid politics, though, when it comes to Thanksgiving?
WILLIAMS: No. Well, I try to. I was amused by your info, when you were talking about talk football. Because I mean, gee, we can't even talk football at this table.
HEGSETH: That's true. That's true.
WILLIAMS: It's unbelievable.
HEGSETH: I know on the data side, you're probably a little worried, Kennedy, about the fact that 10,000 smart phones are being tracked by location.
KENNEDY: Of course. I'm wondering who's doing the tracking?
PERINO: Santa.
KENNEDY: If this is EPA and law enforcement and the NSA, this is an outrage.
HEGSETH: It's a service called Safeguard. They collected 17 trillion locations.
KENNEDY: If it's a private company, I think it's actually a very interesting way of doing it.
Because as we know from the presidential election, phone surveys are not all that reliable. So if you're going to go to the raw numbers, I think it's very interesting.
But also, for a lot of people, Thanksgiving drags on and on and on. It is an all-day event. And I would say, it is the most anxiety-provoking holiday of the year. Because every other holiday, for better of for worse, is centered around either materialism or sugar. And, you know, Easter also. You get a pass there. But it's usually a Sunday morning brunch after church and whatnot.
Thanksgiving knows no religion. And you could spend all day with your family. For some people, that's a prison. What you could do is, if you have a Democratic family, you don't want to spend so much time, put on a red "MAGA" hat and show up and see how quickly your day is cut short.
HEGSETH: Dana, to that point, so the snowflakes come back college, and they meet crazy Uncle Joe, and everybody else who's got their political opinions and happy to share them. Is there any way to avoid it?
PERINO: But now, like, when you get to Thanksgiving, you already know what your crazy uncle Joe's position is, because you've read it on Facebook and you've already unfriended him or blocked him if he's a liberal Democrat. Doesn't matter.
The safest topic is dogs at any Thanksgiving table: dogs.
HEGSETH: Dogs?
PERINO: A hundred percent. Everybody loves to talk about their dogs. Dogs they knew, dogs they --
HEGSETH: Food?
PERINO: I don't care about food, really. Dogs.
HEGSETH: Dogs.
KENNEDY: You know what's funny? Why this year is so much more stressful for people?
GUILFOYLE: Why?
KENNEDY: Because last year after the election, first of all, liberals were in shell shock. But then they thought that the results were going to be undone. They really truly thought that this president was not going to be inaugurated on inauguration day.
And so now they've had an entire year to process their wounded feelings. And there may be even more dejection and depression this year than there was.
HEGSETH: Yes, you think a more depressing Thanksgiving this year?
GUILFOYLE: I don't know.
I don't know. I thought it was OK. Everything is going to be fine till I heard this.
No, I'm looking forward to Thanksgiving. I'm actually, you know, have Thanksgiving with my son and his grandparents, with my second husband and his family. So we get along very nicely.
HEGSETH: And you love food?
GUILFOYLE: I love it. And I cannot wait to just dive into a big thing of mashed potatoes, and I love turkey. I'm just going to focus on the food. And then we can go from there.
HEGSETH: That's where I'm at.
WILLIAMS: Well, I'm going to tell you, I hope somebody rescues me. Maybe you can do the Heimlich on me or something. You know, because they'll say, "Oh, that crazy lib, he's choking on that wing." You know what I mean?
And by the way, where did you get the idea that people were so upset that we thought -- liberals thought that Trump wouldn't be inaugurated? I didn't have that thought.
KENNEDY: Are you nuts? That's all anyone talked about, was trying to figure out ways to --
HEGSETH: Before Russia, it was he's not going to get --
KENNEDY: On a turkey wing and a prayer. That's what they hoped.
HEGSETH: We should see. We'll see how -- you enjoy your Thanksgiving.
"Facebook Friday," up next.
GUILFOYLE: Yes!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC: THE CLASH, "ROCK THE CASBAH")
KENNEDY: We are ready to rock your Casbah. It is "Facebook Friday" on "The Five." You posted your questions. We answer them. Are you ready to go, America?
GUILFOYLE: Yes!
KENNEDY: Blue cards in hand, let us begin. Kimberly, I will start with you.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, thank you so much.
KENNEDY: Being the legal scholar.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
KENNEDY: "If you were arrested with no explanation -- "
GUILFOYLE: What?
KENNEDY: " -- what would your friends and family assume you had done?" That's from Mary M.
GUILFOYLE: They'd assume I'd been framed or somebody was, like, impersonating me.
PERINO: Good answer.
GUILFOYLE: I have perfect attendance. You know, straight "A's." I'm, like, a very much, like, law-abiding person, prosecutor. No, they wouldn't assume anything.
KENNEDY: No Winona shoplifting? Like --
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely not. No. I'm like the police within myself. Trust me. I don't know. I can't answer that, because I totally abhor criminality.
KENNEDY: Juan. You're a lawbreaker, by --
WILLIAMS: Naturally. They'd assume I'd been in China and saw some Luis Vuitton sunglasses.
KENNEDY: Do you have a mean upside shot?
WILLIAMS: I wish I had, like, a shot that would allow me to play -- is that your alma mater, I believe.
KENNEDY: UCAL, yes. Go Bruins.
PERINO: I still love you.
HEGSETH: It would have been for assault.
WILLIAMS: For assault.
HEGSETH: Yes. It would -- I would say it's vigilante justice.
KENNEDY: That's an act.
HEGSETH: Absolutely. Citizen's arrest.
KENNEDY: I did that one time.
HEGSETH: OK, let's not play -- citizen's arrest.
I do not carry an ax with me, and there's a reason.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second. You're Dirty Harry?
HEGSETH: No.
KENNEDY: He's dirty.
GUILFOYLE: He said he would get involved, you know.
KENNEDY: Dana.
HEGSETH: It would be justice.
KENNEDY: I can't imagine that.
GUILFOYLE: I can't imagine.
KENNEDY: Horse thievery?
PERINO: I don't know. Didn't turn in my library book on time.
GUILFOYLE: See? See what I'm saying? This is my sister from another mother.
KENNEDY: All right. Well, I'll at least be honest. My family would assume it had something to do with Fireball.
GUILFOYLE: Good assumption.
PERINO: I like it, too.
KENNEDY: When you mix it with diet cream soda. Thank me later.
WILLIAMS: What is Fireball?
PERINO: Wait until the holiday party, Juan.
KENNEDY: Juan, tastes like heaven, burns like hell. Happy Thanksgiving, America.
WILLIAMS: OK.
KENNEDY: This is from Michelle W. She asks, "If the game from your childhood became a reality show, what game would you like to play?"
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
HEGSETH: Oh, my goodness.
GUILFOYLE: Really?
HEGSETH: It would be like night games. You know, we played tag at night and, you know, run in people's room and go into the back yard with flashlights and somebody would hide for 2 hours and you couldn't really find them and then you had to get serious, and maybe they were lost. Lost in the neighborhood type scenario.
KENNEDY: Dana.
PERINO: I was going more along the lines of Candyland.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. Did you tell her that answer?
HEGSETH: Oh, like actual games.
PERINO: Yes, like actual games.
GUILFOYLE: I was going to say Candyland.
PERINO: I actually do think it would be pretty fun to have Monopoly.
KENNEDY: Oh, yes.
PERINO: Actually do Monopoly.
KENNEDY: There's so much room for reality shows.
PERINO: And I would do Life and Hungry, Hungry Hippos.
HEGSETH: And Risk.
WILLIAMS: Hungry, Hungry Hippos?
GUILFOYLE: Don't let Dana Perino say any more, because she's taken all the good games. All right, all right, all right.
How about Jenga?
KENNEDY: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: I like that. Yes, I think it's, like, great agility.
PERINO: Like money.
GUILFOYLE: Chill and, like, pulling it out.
KENNEDY: That's what ObamaCare is. It's Jenga, and they may have --
GUILFOYLE: Right.
KENNEDY: -- pulled the last cube out. Juan.
WILLIAMS: You are such an ObamaCare critic. You can't even play without bringing up serious topics. All right.
KENNEDY: I can't. It hurts so good.
WILLIAMS: Yes, that it's succeeding. I would say, you know Red Light, Green Light?
KENNEDY: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I think that's a great game. I don't understand why --
PERINO: That happens out on the street every day.
WILLIAMS: Yes, all the time. I think that's a whole lot of --
HEGSETH: Frogger. Yes.
KENNEDY: Well, Frogger is a little dangerous. But how about Red Rover, Red Rover?
WILLIAMS: Yes, that would work.
KENNEDY: I mean, we could have some bipartisanship there, if they played it --
PERINO: I like that game.
KENNEDY: I loved that game. That was fun.
PERINO: I was good at that game.
GUILFOYLE: I'd get called over a lot.
KENNEDY: All right. Let's go on to question No. 3. This is from Ellen P., as in perfect question, Ellen. "If you had the power to take one law away, which law would it be?"
PERINO: Federal income tax.
KENNEDY: All right. Taxation is theft, hashtag. Pete.
HEGSETH: One federal law away? Today it would be ObamaCare. Lock, stock and barrel.
KENNEDY: All right. Juan.
WILLIAMS: Well, I guess, you know, I think this question has come before. Because -- but I don't think it was federal, because I said jay walking. Because I jaywalk all the time.
KENNEDY: It's not federal. It's any law.
WILLIAMS: Oh, it's any law. I thought it was a federal law.
KENNEDY: No, choose your own adventure.
WILLIAMS: Then I think, again, jay walking.
PERINO: I said federal income tax because I'm a conservative. And states can do what they want.
KENNEDY: They absolutely can do what they want. Go to a fair tax, a consumption tax, versus income tax, this cash grab.
GUILFOYLE: I'm with you. That's got to go.
KENNEDY: All right. Kimberly Guilfoyle, we've got one more question to go, so one law repealed. What's gone?
GUILFOYLE: I'm with you. I don't want the income tax.
KENNEDY: No, we don't want the income tax. I would also reschedule marijuana.
Anyhow --
PERINO: We're not with you on that one.
WILLIAMS: I think -- well, finally, we have a breakthrough here! Finally.
KENNEDY: Yes. Yes, there you go, Juan.
WILLIAMS: You like it?
KENNEDY: You don't have to like it to love freedom. OK, quickly, from Pam R.: "Do you have a re-occurring dream and what is it?" Why do you have it? What is it?
PERINO: Being late to this show.
KENNEDY: Oh, yes. Thank goodness you're on time.
HEGSETH: Getting hit by a Mack truck.
KENNEDY: What?
GUILFOYLE: God, that's terrible!
HEGSETH: OK.
WILLIAMS: You know, I think I'm so boring on this, because it's the same thing. That I'm not ready for a test.
KENNEDY: OK. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, I think it was like a test or, you know, a class or something like that. But nothing really bad. No recurring.
KENNEDY: No, I have -- I have a college dream where I sign up for a full load at UCLA in my current job with my current family. It's two weeks before finals, and I have done none of the work.
GUILFOYLE: That that happens to me sometimes, too. Whoa, what happened?
KENNEDY: And then I wake up in a cold sweat, so relieved.
GUILFOYLE: Then you remember you got straight "A's."
KENNEDY: And so relieved that "One More Thing" is next. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: That's music to my ears. TGIF, it's Friday and it's "One More Thing."
I'm going to go first. I'm going to first thank and offer a great congratulations to Mike Meese. He has been the chief of staff for George W. Bush in the post-presidency for 10 years. He is going to move on and start a new chapter with his wife and two lovely daughters and their doggie. So congratulations to you Mike, and for all you've done.
Also, yesterday I was in San Antonio. And I didn't have a chance to talk to these kids, but I love this. There is a national Bible bee competition. This is a place where 360 children around the nation gather to proclaim Bible verses in an inspiring and heart-grabbing competition, sponsored by Shelby Kennedy Foundation. Shelby Kennedy died at the age of 23 from cancer. But spent her life studying the Bible. There are over $100,000 in prize money to be awarded. And it's just really cool. It's also related to a game show hosted by Kirk Cameron, who we all know.
OK. So that was pretty cool. Congratulations to the kids. Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, thank you so much.
So New Year's Eve of 1968, William Cox and his fellow Marine James Hollinsworth, were holed up by enemy fire in a Vietnam bunker. And they made an agreement that if they survived the attack, they would contact each other every year on New Year's. They kept that promise for five decades until, sadly, James passed away. God bless him. William, who served for 20 years in the Marines, gave the eulogy at James's funeral and stood at his casket, standing guard for his fellow Marine brother. Although it was a rough assignment, the now 83-year-old was honored to fulfill his promise to James.
PERINO: That's so sweet.
GUILFOYLE: And it's incredible. God bless them for their service.
WILLIAMS: Super cool.
KENNEDY: Wow.
PERINO: You could have done your thing, "Honoring Heroes."
WILLIAMS: Really.
GUILFOYLE: "Honoring Heroes."
PERINO: All right. Juan, you're next.
WILLIAMS: Well, no use crying over spilled milk. That's what they always tell me. But how about 210,000 gallons of oil? That's what happened yesterday in South Dakota, when the Keystone Pipeline running from Canada across the Great Plains spilled 5,000 barrels of oil. This taking place just days before the Nebraska Public Service Commission will decide on a permit for its sister, the Keystone XL Pipeline.
Now, you know, the Obama administration and environmentalists have long warned about this situation. Uh-oh. What a turkey. It's come true!
PERINO: Oh, OK. Well, that was an interesting "One More Thing." We will -- I'll allow it.
All right. Kennedy.
KENNEDY: Here's one that you will love.
PERINO: OK. Dogs?
KENNEDY: People who love both dogs and reading. Pet Alliance Orlando has decided instead of focusing on dog breeds, they are focusing on dog personalities. So they now have split the dogs into Hogwarts houses. And they've got Gryffindors, who are brave and heroic; Slytherins who are determined and resourceful, Hufflepuffs who are kind and loyal, Ravenclaws who are intelligent and witty. Hufflepuff is -- it's the most populated house, while Ravenclaw is the least populated. But PetAllianceOrlando.org has more info where you can check out the dogs, donate and be inspired.
PERINO: And I see there it's also Adopt a Senior Month. So that means, like, a senior. That's a lovely thing that you can do for an older dog that needs help.
WILLIAMS: Very cool.
KENNEDY: And senior dogs are often house trained and they know to deal with kids.
PERINO: Yes.
All right. Pete.
HEGSETH: The real recurring dream that I have is not waking up for the morning show, because I host --
PERINO: So you're the other way around?
HEGSETH: It's the other way around. You're late, you're not making it. I'll just mention, I'll be hosting "Fox & Friends" this weekend, along with Ed Henry and Rachel Campos-Duffy, who's fantastic and will be making her debut. So catch us from 6 to 10 in the morning.
But now we've got a great fun story about a kid and his First Amendment rights. Jaxon Jester is a 7th grade kid who asked his parents if he could wear a shirt mocking the CNN logo as "Fake News Network" on a school field trip to CNN's Atlanta headquarters. His parents said yes, but the school said no. His teacher asked him to remove the T-shirt before taking the tour. The school has since apologized, and his parents say they were just allowing their son to exercise his First Amendment right. Good parents or not? Good question.
PERINO: All right. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." Have a great weekend, everyone. "Special Report" is up next. Bret, over to you.
END
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