This is a rush transcript from "The Ingraham Angle," April 10, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

LAURA INGRAHAM, HOST: All right. I'm Laura Ingraham. This is “The Ingraham Angle” from Washington. We have an absolutely jam-packed show for you, OK, we need two hours.

Attorney General Barr today dealing a major blow to liberals, everywhere saying Trump was right, his campaign was spied on. Ha, ha Dan Bongino and Chris Hahn debate in moments. And Dr. Drew Pinsky is here on the college scam scandal. Now - the admission scandal. Is the celebrity sorrow real or they just acting?

Plus media blackouts - yes, the Editor of Vogue explains the politics behind her cover girls and why Melania is not welcome there. And Trump's Dark Knight fan video gets stricken from social media. Raymond Arroyo is here with all the details. But first, intimidation by imbeciles, that's the focus of tonight's “Angle.”

For more than a year now, we have been documenting how the Democrats, working in tandem, with far-Left smear squads, have said about to stifle conservative speech. Now these folks think of themselves as rough-and- tumble kind of football players, but they're ultimately blinded by the bright lights.

Through campaigns a full outrage that stoked on social media, they whip up their frenzied followers and then that justifies their trampling on the free speech rights of others, everybody's all upset.

But they've never tried their little charade on someone like Candace Owens before. She entered their holy ground - the Judiciary Committee hearing convened by Democrats, the topic, Hate Crimes and the Rise of White Nationalism.


CANDACE OWENS, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS TURNING POINT USA: I received word on my way in that many of the journalists were confused as to why I was invited. And none of them knew that I, myself, was the victim of a hate crime when I was in high school.

White supremacy, racism, white nationalism words that once held real meaning, have now become nothing more than election strategies. Every four years the black community is offered handouts in fear - handouts and fear. And the ancestry of black Americans is being insulted every single day.

I will not pretend to be a victim in this country. I know that that makes many people on the Left uncomfortable.


INGRAHAM: Oh, Smookin. Well, Congressman Ted Lieu was lying in wait from Ms. Owens and held up a little micro recorder and played this edited clip.


OWENS (voice recording): I actually don't have any problems at all with the word nationalism. I think that it gets - the definition gets poisoned by leaders that actually want globalism. The first thing people think about in - at least in America, is Hitler.

But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK fine. Problem is that, he wanted - he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize--


INGRAHAM: It was her grandfather behind her by the way. Now rather than ask her questions or heck even challenge her views on the victimology being peddled by liberals to black America, liberal henchmen Lieu attacked her character.

Now, he doesn't honestly believe that Candace Owens was somehow empathizing with Hitler, of course he doesn't. But guess what, Owens refused to let the moment pass unchallenged.


OWENS: What I responded to is that I do not believe that we should be characterizing Hitler as a nationalist. He was a homicidal, psychopathic maniac that killed his own people. A nationalist would not kill their own people. I think it's pretty apparent that Mr. Lieu believes that black people are stupid and will not pursue the full clip in its entirety.

REP. JERRY NADLER, D-N.Y.: It is not proper to refer disparagingly or - to a member of the Committee. The witness will not do that again. Witness may continue.

OWENS: Sure, even though I was called despicable.

NADLER: Witness may not refer to remember of the Committee as stupid.

OWENS: I didn't refer to him as stupid. That's not what I said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not what she said.

OWENS: That's not what I said at all. You didn't listen to what I said. May I continue?

NADLER: Please.


INGRAHAM: Can you imagine if a liberal African-American woman were treated this way? What they'd do if she were speaking her truth? Feminists across America would be in an all-out revolt. You'd have liked Samantha Bee would be sputtering about misogyny, and Gillibrand and Warren would be leading candlelight vigils across America at campaign rallies.

Now let me be crystal clear here, what's happening is an all-out assault on America's freedom of conscience, freedom of expression, freedom of movement. And it's even happening to children who step out of line.

Now last night we brought you the story of an 11-year-old little girl Bella Moscato, who was called out by her teacher, in Long Island, for choosing Donald Trump as her hero for a school report. Again, imagine the uproar if some teacher asked some student not to write about Barack Obama as her or his hero?

And of course, media lightweights use the same tactics.


JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST MSNBC: I think that is so disturbing about what William Barr is doing is, here's yet another person who is trashing their reputation in the name of Donald Trump. Another person who - my god, where has he been the past couple years - will exit the White House sorry that he trashed his reputation for Donald Trump.


INGRAHAM: Scarborough questioning Bill Barr - oh, OK. Well, what Scarborough is implying there is that he and his poisonous panelists will relentlessly malign Bill Barr and anyone else who works for or even supports the administration for that matter? Now his words are thinly veiled threats. They're a warning shot across the bow, not just for Barr, but for anyone even thinking of taking a job with the Trump administration.

Former DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen is another target. Yesterday Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted favorably in response to a Leftist who wants to punish Nielsen even if she returns to private life.

So apparently it wasn't enough to harass people at their homes and in restaurants, now far-Left activists launched petition drives to prevent these former Trump staffers from earning a living after their government service - nice!

Now what these activists are saying is this. The price of working for Trump is, you are now and forever unclean and untouchable. My friends, no CEO, no college President nor any potential employer should ever bow to these types of threats, and that's what they are, its threats.

Now even once reasonable - fairly reasonable Democrats are now supporting this campaign of branding the Trump team with a big scarlet letter, a big "T".


SEN. CHRIS COONS, D-DEL.: She had a background in cybersecurity, but I think that's not what she's going to be known for. And it frankly has to raise the question for anyone who is offered a cabinet opportunity with President Trump whether their reputation will survive.

LEON PANETTA, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He's going to continue to look for people that in many ways are willing to violate their oath of office, which is to enforce the law. And that means he's going to have a very difficult time finding good people.


INGRAHAM: Even Leon Panetta, it's unbelievable. But that's the goal, isn't it? The Left is uninterested in actually doing things called solving problems. It's moved to 24/7 character assassination of Trump's cabinet, his staff, of course Trump himself, but really anyone who supports his policies and has the guts to say so. Even little kids like that girl on Long Island.

Now rather than staying my friends in a defensive crouch when they threaten and demonize patriotic Americans, we at “The Ingraham Angle” will continue to expose these tactics, the funding of these organizations underneath all of it, and their ultimate aims.

And together I'm extremely confident tonight that we're going to preserve free and open debate in this country that we all love, and that's “The Angle.”

President Trump said it last year and liberals laughed it off, but now Attorney General Barr sets the record straight.


WILLIAM BARR, ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think spying on a political campaign is a big deal. Yes, I think spying did occur.

Question is whether it was predicated - adequately predicated, and I'm not suggesting it wasn't adequately predicated, but I need to explore that.


INGRAHAM: Joining me now Dan Bongino, Fox News Contributor and author of the upcoming book, "Exonerated", and Chris Hahn, Former Aide to Senator Chuck Schumer.

All right, Dan, I guess the Left just missed, I guess, the biggest story of - certainly the week, the month. They laughed at Trump when he said basically he was spied on, his campaign was wiretapped. They made a big joke on - about that on all the morning shows. But it turns out that the Trump campaign was spied on and Bill Barr said so.

DAN BONGINO, CONTRIBUTOR: Right. Oh, how the tables have turned? Remember we were all called conspiracy theorists. They went after talk radio folks for even saying that there may have been a FISA warrant on the Trump team.

Except for the fact, Laura, that nearly every single part of the conspiracy theory we put out there turned out to be true, because we actually did our homework and did an investigation. No sentient rational being can say - notice, I said rational being. So I'm not talking about CNN and MSDNC over there.

No one now at this point can claim the Trump administration wasn't spied on. You can argue what happened beforehand, but the fact that they were spied on is irrefutable if you're a rational human being.

INGRAHAM: Chris Hahn, do you dispute that?

CHRIS HAHN, FORMER AIDE TO SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER: Yes. I dispute it and I'm a rational human being. Even the Attorney General said, he "thinks" they may have been spied on.

INGRAHAM: You think he might have a little bit more information than you?


HAHN: The Attorney General - the Attorney General should not be talking about what he thinks. The Attorney General should be talking about what he knows, otherwise he appears to be a partisan, which the Attorney General should not be.

He - it's OK for Dan or you or me to opine on our opinion, but the Attorney General of the United States should refrain from opining on his opinion unless he's announcing the facts - to the entire country and that is not what he did today.

Today, he was performing for an audience of one and that audience might have done very and then audience of others who've supported--

INGRAHAM: OK, so you're joining. I just want everyone to understand this, because Chris, I love having you on the show. But you are joining the pig pile on Barr tonight, correct? Because--

BONGINO: Yes, it's embarrassing.

INGRAHAM: --it's now it's now formerly well-respected Democrats who worked with Bill Barr 30 years ago when he's a young man, a young Attorney General, had no problem when he was a CEO of one of the major telecom companies in the world, one of the most respected legal minds in the world. No problem.

But suddenly, he works for the Trump administration, and his entire repertoire of accomplishment and credibility is out the window. So I just want everyone to understand that are you joining the big pile on Barr, which I am stunned by.

BONGINO: Laura--

HAHN: I think, when the Attorney General--


HAHN: I think when the Attorney General--

INGRAHAM: Hold on.

HAHN: I think when the Attorney General talks about law enforcement that way when they go through the proper procedures to get warrants, to do what they have to do to keep America safe.

INGRAHAM: That's what the proper procedure is?

HAHN: That is despicable.


INGRAHAM: Oh, my god. If this were done to the Obama administration, you would be screaming holy hell about it. If this kind of stuff was done to the Obama team, you'd be going crazy.


BONGINO: Chris, you're filibustering.

INGRAHAM: Dan, I'm going to - yes, go ahead.

BONGINO: You are lying. You are lying. That is not - you're lying. You're not - your absolutely making that up.

HAHN: How is that lie? Define.

BONGINO: Bill Barr did not say there was no spying. He is only arguing about the predication. Get a grip on the English language, Chris. That a predication, meaning the set of facts--

HAHN: He said I fact scanned--


BONGINO: Listen, I didn't interrupt your garbage filibuster. OK.

HAHN: Do you no know. You sure did.

BONGINO: Here is what I know and what you don't, because you've done no homework on this case and you're shamelessly advocating for police state tactics, because you're a hack tonight.

HAHN: No, I'm not.

BONGINO: National--



BONGINO: Listen to me. National Security--

HAHN: Oh, the Attorney General was the hack today. Let's be clear who the hack was.

INGRAHAM: All right. Okay. You get - Chris, you are making a point over there, which I don't think you really want to be doing.

BONGINO: Chris, a human asset spied on the Trump team. A human asset spied on the Trump team. The New York Times themselves acknowledge it.

INGRAHAM: They had to admit it today.

BONGINO: Stop humiliating yourself tonight.

INGRAHAM: Yes, the New York Times had--

HAHN: I don't think that--

INGRAHAM: --admitted today actually.

HAHN: I don't think that Americans during their jobs should be called spies by the man they work for.

INGRAHAM: Is that what Brennan and Clapper were doing?

HAHN: That is something he should not have done today. And I think--

INGRAHAM: We're going to get into with--

HAHN: --many rational Republicans agree with that.

INGRAHAM: OK. Let's play what Nancy Pelosi said today, because she gave an interview - I think it's important to play this - about your Bill Barr. Again, there's a concerted effort to undermine the legitimacy of the sitting Attorney General who was previously the Attorney General. Let's watch.


REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: I'm very concerned about the statements made by the Attorney General Barr. I think that they undermine our Constitution. They undermine the role of the Attorney General. He is not the Attorney General of Donald Trump. He is the Attorney General of the United States. I don't trust Barr. I trust Mueller.


INGRAHAM: OK. So she trusts no Barr but Mueller and Mueller and Barr are working right now to go through the redactions, Chris Hahn, and they seem to have a really good working relationship.

I don't know what she's going to do when this report comes out, I guess she'll try to find a line or two here or there to go back to Russian meddling. But I just want to ask you again. You are comfortable with this line of personal character assassination that the Democrats are engaged in against someone like a Bill Barr. Are you - you're really comfortable with this?

HAHN: Look, I don't like personal characterization - like personal attacking people's personal character. But I don't think that the Attorney General of United States should be drawing conclusions like that against the FBI who work for him.

And I think he should really get to the bottom of it. Let IG report come out, use those facts to explain to Congress--

INGRAHAM: Well, he'll be called in to question too.

HAHN: --what happened. Not to opine on his opinion.

INGRAHAM: Yes. Michael Horowitz is going to be trashed too, mark my word, they're going to go after him. Dan, final word.

BONGINO: I don't know - I'm really - I'm puzzled. Chris is a lawyer and we're friends off the air, contrary to how hostile we can be to each other on the air.

HAHN: I love you, you know that.

BONGINO: I'm really puzzled, because Laura - and I love you too buddy. But you're a smart guy and I cannot believe you are openly advocating for police state tactics and lying about the fact that the Trump people spied on--

HAHN: I am not advocating for that. I am advocating for the Attorney General to give his opinion.

INGRAHAM: All right. We're not going to make any progress - any other progress on this. Great to have you both on tonight, though. The media reaction to Barr, though, was what you would expect.

And (three outlets), particularly burned by the shifting Mueller narrative were quick to paint the AG's comments as just purely political. CNN's Manu Raju commenting, "Barr's comments here bound to please Trump".

The Washington Post Aaron Blake tweeting, "The use of spying, it's obviously a loaded term, and one Trump favors". And MSNBC's Legal Analyst Cynthia Alksne offered this.


CYNTHIA ALKSNE, LEGAL ANALYST, MSNBC: I think that's crazy. Obviously Barr feels the need to curry favor with Trump. And I don't understand why a man of his standing and reputation would feel the need to kowtow to the President in such a way.


INGRAHAM: Was Cynthia upset when old Eric Holder said he was Obama's wingman? Here to react Mollie Hemingway, Senior Editor at the Federalist, Fox News Contributor. I have never seen anything like this. I call them the smear squads. But it's even - it's not just the cable talkers, we're seeing people like Leon Panetta and Chris Coons who are reasonable people.

MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, EDITOR, THE FEDERALIST: Well and it's interesting because if you watched Attorney General Barr, he's so calm, so sober so even-handed. He's not saying anything extreme. He's just saying the facts as they are known.

And contrary to what we just heard, there's no dispute about whether there was spying or not. That is the common way to describe what happened. They used multiple human informants. There were wiretaps, there was other electronic surveillance. There were National Security Letters.

If it were about anything other than the Trump campaign, we would all acknowledge that spying. And that is a very good word to use to sum up what was going on there. The media can't use that word, because they were complicit in this operation in two ways.

One, they perpetuated the Russia collusion hoax. They accepted these leaks. They were not critical about them at all. They claimed they had all these bombshells. So on one side they extended the hoax.


HEMINGWAY: On the other, they never covered what was going on that was troubling about the actions taken by these federal agents, not just in the FBI, but at other agencies to go against domestic political opponents.

INGRAHAM: But they are civil libertarians. They are supposed to be civil libertarians. They care American Civil Liberties Union. I mean, they should mean - I mean, the ACLU should have been leading the charge to protect Americans' privacy.

HEMINGWAY: There are a lot of people who should care about this.


HEMINGWAY: They're unable to because they're so wrapped up--

INGRAHAM: They are obsessed with hating Trump. Your friend Brennan - until five minutes before the report came out was still basically saying that Putin was spooning with Trump. He said this today.


JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: Over the past several weeks I've been very disappointed in Attorney General Barr. I had higher expectations for him. He shaped the narrative after the Mueller report.

He, in fact, then also had this testimony today that, I think, was very carefully nuanced as a way to try to support the Donald Trump's positions. So he acted more like a personal lawyer for Donald Trump today rather than the Attorney General.


INGRAHAM: As you wrote today in The Federalist, he actually briefed Brennan - briefed Harry Reid on this ongoing operation, a lot of people don't know that. Tell us.

HEMINGWAY: Yes, Brennan separately briefed Harry Reid from the rest of the gang of eight. And Harry Reid said that he understood he was getting this separate briefing. So he could publicize the Russia investigation during the 2016 campaign. People who care about election meddling should care about that story.

We haven't really even begun to investigate how Brennan, how Clapper, how other Intel Chiefs were involved in this narrative, not just during the election, but then of course throughout the first two years of the administration.

There's a truth in what he says there. He's troubled by Barr going against the narrative that they said. They put a lot of work into a narrative, that's being blown up just by people saying obvious facts such as that there was spying and that we should make sure that we don't do this against domestic political opponents.

So I get the feeling Barr is sort of the adult who came in and said, "Okay, you've had your games. We're going to try and restore the credibility of the FBI and Department of Justice now".

INGRAHAM: But I mean conservatives believe that this was an effort to take down Trump post-election, before election and after the election. But now that hasn't worked. So now they have to take down Barr. They have to like clear the decks of anyone. They're trying to like almost deprive Trump of a staff--

HEMINGWAY: Of having an Attorney General, which is a threat to the Constitutional Republic, because we do believe that we have political accountability for agencies.

Mollie Hemingway, terrific piece by the way, read it in Federalist. It's on my website on

And Candice Owens, she lit up the House Judiciary Democrats yesterday in moments. She will join us for her first interview since her viral testimony that ripped the masks off of he intolerant left.


NADLER: Witness may not refer to remember of the Committee as stupid.

OWENS: I didn't refer to him as stupid. That's not what I said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not what she said.

OWENS: That's not what I said at all. You didn't listen to what I said.




OWENS: I believe the legacy and the ancestry of black Americans is being insulted every single day. I will not pretend to be a victim in this country. I know what that makes many people on the Left uncomfortable.


INGRAHAM: And Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee were extremely uncomfortable as Candice Owens just slashed at the narratives of the people like Nadler and Ted Lieu.

In fact when C-Span tweeted out the video of the confrontation with Lieu, it racked up 4.47 million views in less than 24 hours, it's a Twitter record for that Network. Joining me now in her first interviews since the explosive hearing is Candice Owens herself. She's the Comms director for Turning Point USA and Leo Terrell, Civil Rights Attorney. But both sides are represented here tonight.

Candice why do you think that your moment and I watched it from beginning to end has drawn such attention and what has been the reaction to you personally since?

OWENS: Well, I think it drew attention for a lot of reasons. I think in many ways people on the Right felt vindicated. And I know that there are a lot of moderate people that came over and realized that what I was talking about were actually real issues in black America.

I touched upon the illiteracy rates, 75 percent of black boys in California not being able to read is a problem in black America. White nationalism, when black on black crime 90.1 percent of all homicides against black Americans are performed by other black Americans.

The entire hearing in my opinion was a hoax. The continued hoax on black America which comes to us from Democrats who want ultimately to fail by focusing on something that is not harming us when you look at all of the other issues that we are facing.

INGRAHAM: Now Leo, you watched - I'm sure, at least part of what Candice said yesterday, your reaction.

LEO TERRELL, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well I just see right now Candice Owens is getting 15 minutes of fame and just give me 30 seconds, I'd proved my point. She's just again assumed that all Democrats are hoping that black people fail.

On her on her interview with C-Span she says that the word nationalism has been compromised or poisoned by elitist. Tell that to the people in Charlottesville. She did try to put herself in the same category of Donald Trump talking about the false narrative.

But the part that was so insulting, which she's promoting your employer and said that she went to Jerusalem and not a single Democrat went there. Ms. Owens let me tell you, 72 percent of Jewish Americans voted for Democrats. So you did a great job of promoting yourself and playing the victim.

And by the way, it's not just black people were not stupid by what you said, Americans were not stupid, because I listened to everything you just said, and I hope you can challenge what I said about the number of blacks - number of Jews who support Democrats.

But you did a good job of marketing yourself today, putting yourself in the same boat as the President. Good job Candice.

INGRAHAM: All right. So the personal attack. I just wanted - for the record--

OWENS: That's a personal attack.

INGRAHAM: --personal attacks continue - that Leo, you were attacking her character.

OWENS: It's a personal attack.

INGRAHAM: She is - she mentioning the issue.

TERRELL: I just said what happened.

INGRAHAM: You are attacking her character and what she said.

TERRELL: She - Laura she just said


OWENS: --in my opinion, in my opinion--


INGRAHAM: Hold on let her finish. Don't talk over--

OWENS: Let me speak.

INGRAHAM: Go ahead.

OWENS: Let me speak. That wasn't an ad hominem attack and it's childish. I'm not going to play these playground tactics with you. I'm going to keep the focus on black America and the things are actually impacting us. This is not - this is an adult conversation that needs to be had.

OK. The shootings in Chicago - it was Laura Ingraham, who hosted and had a real conversation with people that were living in that neighborhood about things that were affecting them.

And ultimately this is why the "Blexit" movement grows. This is why blacks are exiting the Democrat Party, because ad hominem attacks are not making people feel better about themselves.

Ad hominem attacks are not going to impact our financial, our financial situation in black America. It's unfortunate, because you consider yourself a civil rights leader, you're just attacking me. You're just attacking me. You haven't--

TERRELL: Laura Ingraham, let me just say this--

OWENS: --actually offering anything that's constructive for black America.

TERRELL: No ad hominem attack.

INGRAHAM: All right.

TERRELL: Did anyone, Laura, watch - does anyone watching your program honestly believe what she just said? I'll give you a straight. She said Democratic Party want black people to fail. You - see, those are talking points Ms. Owens, because you know deep down inside just, because you disagree with Democrats, you cannot assume that Democrats want black people to fail. That's what you just said on national TV.

OWENS: I did and I believe that and I would back it up facts.

TERRELL: Well, I - okay. That's my point Laura.

INGRAHAM: I'm you guys--

TERRELL: Laura, you know that's not true.

INGRAHAM: Okay, I want to play something.

TERRELL: Laura, you know that's not true.

OWENS: I will back it up with facts.

INGRAHAM: I think a lot of Democrat leaders are freaking out and tried to kill her yesterday on that hearing--

OWENS: They are afraid.

INGRAHAM: because they don't want what she is saying to take hold in other parts of the black community, Leo I honestly believe that. I know Candice and what was said about or implied by Ted Lieu--

TERRELL: You know me Laura. You know me.

INGRAHAM: --was disgusting. I do. And that's why I want to have a conversation about these underlying issues, that's why we went to Chicago to do that forum, that's why we want to hear from the neighbors that are hurting in Englewood - in the Englewood neighborhood. They're hurting. They're really hurting.

And they are not hurting mostly because of white nationalism, that's always going to be a problem--

OWENS: That is correct.

TERRELL: Here is my request, Laura, I would like to go to Chicago with you and debate Ms. Owens on that issue. I would love to go--

OWENS: Why do we need to debate. Why don't you want to hear. Why you want to debate?

TERRELL: Because I want I want here to discuss it.

OWENS: --why don't you want to go to hear about the people, you want to debate. That's like - why don't you hear from the people--

TERRELL: You just made an attack. The most diverse party in the Democratic Party--

OWENS: I have made attack? I haven't said - I have not said one thing against you.


INGRAHAM: Hold on. Let her speak.

OWENS: Let me speak. I had not made - I have not said.

INGRAHAM: Hold on.

TERRELL: Unbelievable.

OWENS: Let me speak. I have not said a single thing attacking your character, because I don't need to. I am confident in my ideas. I am confident in the fact that black America is waking up and realizing that we have been missing out.

I am confident at the biggest issue facing our community is absence which further deconstructs everything that's happening--

TERRELL: Ms. Owens--

OWENS: Stop. Stop cutting me off.

TERRELL: You have attacked every Democrat.

OWENS: I have not attacked. I have attacked Democrat polices.


INGRAHAM: Hold on, hold on.


INGRAHAM: Hold on.

TERRELL: Every Democrat - she has basically said that every Democrat - the diverse party of minorities, of people of color, she has just said on national TV over and over again that the Democrats want black people to fail.

Ms. Owens, that is not correct. Those are your words, that is not true.

OWENS: That's a fact, not an attack.

INGRAHAM: First of all, Leo, I would actually take what Leo said with a greater sense of belief and credibility. Had, Leo, you said something similar every time a Nita Lowey or Elijah Cummings just imparts the worst motives on people who disagree with them on policy. And it happens far too often. So the worst motives ever come on the other side. Are you a white person? Then you have too much white privilege. Then you need to sit down and let someone else's truth be heard. I think, Leo, you got your truth out. You got your truth out. Candace got her truth out.


INGRAHAM: And I think we do want the problem-solving done on both sides. We want problem-solving on the show, and that means we have different points of view heard. And Leo, you can come, come to Chicago. Candace, we actually can roll up our sleeves and get something done I think if the three of us actually wanted to do that. So guys, thank you very much.

OWENS: Absolutely. Thank you.

TERRELL: Thank you.

INGRAHAM: Candace, great to have you on. Leo, great to have you on.

All right, and coming up, have you ever wondered why only certain first ladies appear on the cover of "Vogue"? It's editors finally come clean. That and other media blackout stories, "Seen and Unseen" with Raymond, next.


INGRAHAM: It's time for "Seen and Unseen" where we explore -- expose the big cultural stories of the day.

So why are only certain first ladies allowed on the cover of "Vogue"? And social media is selectively banning speech, again. With the media blackout edition of "Seen and Unseen," Raymond Arroyo, FOX News contributor, "New York Times" bestselling author of the "Will Wilder," series and the book "The Amulet of Power." Raymond, why do we only seem to see one party represented on the magazine rack when we talk about first ladies. Michelle Obama has pretty much been on every magazine all the time.

RAYMOND ARROYO, CONTRIBUTOR: It's not only first ladies, but "Vogue" editor, Laura, Anna Wintour, known for her severe bob and solar shield, sat down with your favorite journalist, Christiane Amanpour, and she explained why certain political figures or first ladies get covers, and others don't.


CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: You're overtly political. What is it that you are trying to say by profiling a Michelle Obama or a Kamala Harris, or even a Stormy Daniels?

ANNA WINTOUR, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "VOGUE": I believe, as I think those of us who work at Conde Nast believe, that you have to stand up for what you believe in. I don't think you can try and please everybody all the time.


ARROYO: Can't please everybody all the time. So with no concern about alienating viewers or readers, Wintour went on.


AMANPOUR: It is noticeable that there are more Democratic women from the Democratic Party in your magazine and profile than there are Republican. I wonder whether there's a reason for that?

WINTOUR: I think it's very, very important to have a point of view. We profile women in the magazine that we believe understand that they are taking on issues. We support them in the fact that we feel that they are leaders.


ARROYO: There is one woman who will never appear on the cover of any one of these magazines. Do you know who that woman might be, Laura?

INGRAHAM: Zsa Zsa Gabor?

ARROYO: This one.

INGRAHAM: Let's see it.

ARROYO: The control room has lost that woman. No, not that one. No, wrong woman, Laura. Maybe they will figure out by the time I return these classes to Meryl Streep. There it is. That's the woman who will never appear.

INGRAHAM: "Rogue."

ARROYO: You've got to go on "Rogue," not "Vogue." Before we leave, you mentioned Michelle Obama. She has been on three of these "Vogue" covers, and for this reason, Laura.


WINTOUR: Obviously on a very selfish note, speaking as the editor in chief of "Vogue," she did wonders for fashion. She loved fashion.


ARROYO: You see, she is so different from that doughty Melania, she doesn't know anything about fashion, Laura. Just jumpers and smocks with Melania.

INGRAHAM: First of all, the fact that Anna Wintour must continue to wear the glasses --

ARROYO: She says it's so people don't know what she is thinking.

INGRAHAM: Is that right? I think we know what she's thinking. I'm a big liberal, and I'm going to put all my liberal tripe out. And what are you wearing tonight, by the way?

ARROYO: This. Laura, big news.

INGRAHAM: Sorry to interrupt, we've got to get serious here. Sorry to interrupt. There is tonight a FOX News alert. Congressman Eric Swalwell made a huge announcement on "The Colbert Show" two nights ago. It was one of those moments steeped in history.


REP. ERIC SWALWELL, D-CALIF.: I see a country in quicksand, unable to solve problems and threats from abroad, unable to make life better for people here at home. I'm ready to solve these problems. I'm running for president of the United States.


ARROYO: Well, Laura, let's go on.

There was a big band this week. The other day a social media video appeared with Trump squaring off with his ideological opponents. Now, music from "The Dark Knight" played beneath the video.


ARROYO: After the president retweeted it -- that's not "The Dark Knight" music.


ARROYO: The posting received 90,000 likes, 2 million people saw it. It was taken down from Twitter last night, citing copyright violation. I call it the "Batman" because Warner Brothers claims the music was not authorized for use.

INGRAHAM: It's not a campaign video.

ARROYO: You're getting ahead of me. They claim you cannot use this music in a campaign video, and they are threatening legal action against the White House.

INGRAHAM: I say bring it. I say bring it. Again, this is another liberal -- you think they would be on Obama's you-know-what for this, on his tail for this?

ARROYO: Here's the thing, remember, this is a person in the blogosphere who just posted a video. They're not a campaign employee. So the fact that the president retweeted it, does that mean all 90,000 re-tweeters, are they are all on the hook with Warner Brothers now for copyright violation? I think not.

INGRAHAM: Can I borrow those classes?

ARROYO: No, you may not. These are Anna Wintour's --

INGRAHAM: I don't want people to know what I was thinking. Why the accent?


INGRAHAM: Finally, Raymond, did you see where the National Science Foundation unveiled, there it is, an actual photograph of a black hole.

ARROYO: Yes, pretty amazing, actually.

INGRAHAM: They used several telescopes. What do you think when you saw this?

ARROYO: When I first saw it, I thought this is what happens when I take my glasses off at the dentist's office. You look up at that circular light, that is how it looks, a fuzzy hole. What did you think when you saw it?

INGRAHAM: It looks like the solar eclipse or the lunar -- but it scares me just to look at it.

ARROYO: I'm glad to know there are black holes. I want to go back in time to a time when Anna Wintour didn't politically decide who was on the cover of "Vogue." That would be a nice time.

INGRAHAM: You can get sucked in and go back in time, apparently, or whatever, matter disappears.

ARROYO: I'm on that train.

INGRAHAM: A black hole is like the Judiciary Committee wanting documents. You're never going to get them from Trump, that is a black hole.

All right, the psych profiles of the defendants in the college admissions scandal, is the sorrow fake or real? And what about those who seem to be a total denial? Dr. Drew is here to answer three very important questions, moments away.



RIKKI KLIEMAN, CBS NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Felicity Huffman has been, in fact, picture-perfect. She has looked ashamed.

Lori Loughlin on the other hand, two children, two $250,000 payments alleged, and goes into the court, goes into Boston, signs autographs, smiles with those pearly whites.


INGRAHAM: Twenty-nine days now have passed since the Operation Varsity Blues scandal broke. Fourteen defendants in the scandal have pled guilty and taken responsibility, including Felicity Huffman. But Lori Loughlin, no such luck there.

What's exactly going on behind this seeming defiance that Loughlin is showing? Tonight, I get some answers from one of the best. Joining me is board certified internist, Dr. Drew Pinsky. So Drew, it is great to see you. What do you think explains, just observationally, the difference in approach between two very high profile folks?

DR. DREW PINSKY, CELEBRITY DOCTOR: We don't know the advice they are getting, right, Laura. I agree with that legal analyst you just put on there. They are getting legal advice that seems to be very different, and one seems to be very good. I've heard the term "pitch-perfect a half a dozen times in regarding the approach that Felicity Huffman is taking, and problematic when it comes to the other --

INGRAHAM: Lori Loughlin.

PINSKI: Lori Loughlin, exactly. And so the issue is she is going to have to settle. The legal -- the prosecutors clearly are going to keep piling on one thing after another until she is forced to settle, so why not settle, take responsibility for what she has done, and do your time and get through this, because there is no way to avoid the consequences, it seems to me.

INGRAHAM: It seems like she never really thought there was a possibility of jail time. And of course, there is a serious possibility of jail time.

PINSKI: Absolutely.

INGRAHAM: Maybe, not going to thrown away forever, but these are serious charges. These aren't like blow it off charges.

PINSKI: Absolutely not. And maybe there's some evidence or something we don't know about, but pretty clear the prosecutors are feeling pretty good about their case.

So look, in terms of her regaining her life and being able to have a career again, she's got to admit fault, move forward, take the consequences. And as you know, Laura, we live in a world where people love to act out. You and I, it seems I'm talking about narcissism every time I come on your show. Here I am again, here I am again, talking about the phenomenon of malignant envy. Malignant envy rules the land. People cannot stand somebody else having more or different or making them feel diminished in some way.

It's one thing to feel jealous of another person, right? We feel jealous, and we go, oh, I like what that person has, I want to try to attain what they have. It makes me feel a little bit bad. But envy is the that person has something I don't, I need to bring them down to my size.

I don't know what happened to this country, where, if you remember, every religious notion includes the idea of avoiding the sin of envy. Envy is a destructive emotion. And narcissists are prone to it, and once they develop envy and narcissism, they are prone to mob action. And now we have created the perfect public square for that with social media, and people like this are getting acted out on all the time.

INGRAHAM: I think part of it might be that when people reach this level of fame, especially in the entertainment industry, and probably this industry too, it's like we are all susceptible to it, is that you do lose perspective. There is a sense of perspective on things, and maybe you even start believing your own narrative. Maybe Loughlin believes her own narrative, and Huffman is like, whoa, I've got to get out of this, I've got to get out of this mess. And the redemption stories is always something people like to grab onto.

PINSKI: We do like redemption because we feel guilty for acting out our malignant envy, right? We act out on people until they are destroyed, we feel bad about it, and then we don't mind the redemption afterwards.

But you are absolutely right, this whole phenomenon seems to be about losing perspective. Listen, I just had kids applying to college and graduate school recently. You get desperate. And then they go to an advisor, somebody they pay a lot of money to who says everyone does this, you should do this, no big deal. You believe them, and pretty soon you're doing things you can't imagine you would have done.

INGRAHAM: Dr. Drew, great analysis, as always. Thank you.

PINSKI: By the way, Laura, I want to go to Chicago with you and Leo and Candace for sure. Let is my friend. You guys were mean to him. I've got to come join this trio. We are going to be a foursome.

INGRAHAM: The two girls were picking on the --

PINSKI: Poor Leo.

INGRAHAM: You know something, you can come because we are actually going to solve problems.

PINSKI: I know. I want to go. I love all three of you.

INGRAHAM: We are going to solve problems, and it is going to be fun, and it is going to be very rewarding to all involved. So I would love for you to come. We are putting this together, so you are in.

PINSKI: I'm in. I'm in.

INGRAHAM: All right, Dr. Drew, thanks so much.

PINSKI: You bet.

INGRAHAM: And Pete Buttigieg will not stop attacking Mike Pence's Christianity. Chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition Ralph Reed has a message for Mayor Pete just moments away.



PETE BUTTIGIEG, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's nice. If he were here, you'd think he's a nice guy to your face. But he's also just fanatical.

And that's the thing I with the Mike Pences of the world would understand, that if you've got a problem with who I am, your problem is not with me. Your quarrel, sir, is with my creator.


INGRAHAM: South Bend mayor and new Democratic it boy Pete Buttigieg seems to be obsessed with attacking the vice president's Christianity. Attacking the faith of others is apparently a good thing according to CNN commentator Kirsten Powers. Her latest piece is titled "Mayor Pete's countercultural approach to Christianity is what America needs now." Is it, Kirsten? Joining me now, Ralph Reed, chairman of the Faith and Freedom Coalition. Ralph, dying to talk to you about this. What's your take?

RALPH REED, CHAIRMAN, FAITH AND FREEDOM COALITION: Well, they are obviously stumbling and bumbling along, trying to find a lexicon and a vocabulary for faith. But here's the problem. Mike Pence has been nothing but kind and generous to this man. He has done nothing but treat him with dignity and respect.

When Pete Buttigieg announced publicly that he was gay in 2015, Mike Pence said he was a fine public servant and a good man. And the way he gets paid back is to be accused of hypocrisy and phoniness. And Laura, he said this on another network. The mayor said that Mike Pence, and I quote, stopped believing in scripture when he started believing in Trump. Now, that is a smear against somebody's faith.

INGRAHAM: Does he really want to go to scripture here? That is not going to be ultimately -- that's not going to get anyone into a very good place. I don't get what he is doing. They're trying to co-opt the values, because there is this leftwing, religious category of people out there who -- I don't get it. I don't get what their appeal is.

REED: I think it's after the boneheaded move of the basket of deplorable's line and saying that people of faith were irredeemable, which was Hillary Clinton's line, he is now trying to reclaim that old, liberal legacy of civil rights and antiwar movement out of the churches.

But here's the thing, Laura. The way to do it is to talk about your own faith. It is not to attack somebody else's. If you point the finger at 60 million evangelicals and 25 million faithful, frequently mass attending Catholics, and say your faith is a fraud, and you are a hypocrite, that is not how you win friends and influence people and politics. It is not only bad politics, it's, frankly, bad theology. If he is as he claims to be --

INGRAHAM: Deeply religious, that is how they described him.

REED: -- my brother in Christ, which is what he professes to be, then he should share his faith and the meaning of it in his life. He shouldn't attack mine. That's not his job. I answer to my creator. I don't answer to him.

INGRAHAM: I think that the attack -- and they say, well, at least he'll eat at Chick-fil-A. OK, that is great, that's progress. I guess he'll eat at Chick-fil-A. But it is too narrow of a space they are going into. I don't think for all their claims that it is a universal appeal, it seems very petty right now. Real quick.

REED: It is very petty, and it is a caricature of people's faith.

INGRAHAM: Ralph Reed, great to see you, as always.

And auntie Maxine with another embarrassing turn at a House hearing today. Tonight's Last Bite next.


INGRAHAM: Congresswoman Maxine Waters embarrassed herself yesterday with Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and she was back at it with some Wall Street CEOs today.


REP. MAXINE WATERS, D-CALIF.: What are you guys doing to help with the student loan debt? Who would like to answer first? Mr. Moynihan, big bank?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stop making student loans in 2007 or so.

WATERS: So you don't do it anymore? Mr. Corbat?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We exited student lending in 2009.

WATERS: Mr. Dimon?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the government took over student lending in 2010 or so, we stopped doing all student lending.

WATERS: Thank you.


INGRAHAM: Oops, mad Maxine fumbles it again.

That's all the time we have tonight. Don't forget my podcast drop today. Subscribe at iTunes. Shannon Bream and the "Fox News @ Night" team take it all from here.

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