US ambassador to UK reacts to Trump's NATO comments

This is a rush transcript from "The Story," July 11, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: Tonight, the president in full disrupter mode, puts our NATO allies on notice.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's very unfair to our country if these countries have to step it up, not over a 10-year period. They have to step it up immediately.

MACCALLUM: And they are not happy that a U.S. president is pushing back and demanding they live up to their agreements.

TRUMP: Germany as a captive of Russia, they getting so much of the oil and gas from Russia.

JENS STOLTENBERG, SECRETARY GENERAL, NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY ORGANIZATION: I think the two World Wars and the Cold War taught us that we're stronger together than apart.

MACCALLUM: NATO was created to defend Europe from Russia. But is the president signaling a new dynamic?

TRUMP: I have NATO, I have the U.K., and I have Putin. Frankly, Putin may be the easiest of them all, who would think?

MACCALLUM: But first, he must deal with the U.K. prime minister, embroiled in her own political death match and investigating alleged Russian poisonings on U.K. soil.

British Prime Minister Theresa May, taking harsh action against Russia following a nerve agent attack.

So, how will that go with Theresa May?

THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: I am not afraid to speak frankly to a president of the United States. I am able to do that because we have that special relationship.

MACCALLUM: And now, the special relationship is tested.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a special relationship, a relationship between America and Britain and we're going to keep it that way.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States and the United Kingdom enjoy a truly special relationship.

TRUMP: We pledge our lasting support to this most special relationship.


MACCALLUM: And we are live in London tonight where the world is watching on the eve of President Trump's first official visit to the United Kingdom. And we take a look at this in anticipation of his visit and the potential for tens of thousands of protesters here.

High metal security fencing going up outside the residence in London where the president will be staying. Today, I sat down with the U.S. Ambassador Woody Johnson and asked him if the president will come out in support of embattled Prime Minister Theresa May.

But first, it is shaping up to be an intense visit coming off a tough talk day at the NATO summit in Brussels. Chief White House Correspondent John Roberts, live in Belgium with more on that tonight. Hi, John.

JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good evening. Top of the morning, I guess, actually to you, Martha, here from Brussels where the president later on this afternoon will be heading there to London for that working visit.

Tonight, if there were any differences here at the NATO summit, you wouldn't have known, let's put up the video so that we can show you President Trump and the first lady engaging at an art reception following the day of NATO meetings. There you see them walking down the garden path as if we're get connecting with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, having conversations, smiling, seeming to put aside any differences that occurred during the day.

But earlier, the president with a frontal attack on Merkel, hammering Germany for its pipeline deal with Putin, to pump natural gas from Russia directly to Germany. The president denouncing the deal as bad for NATO. Listen to what he said here.


TRUMP: We're supposed to protect you against Russia, but they are paying billions of dollars to Russia. Germany is totally controlled by Russia. When you look at it, Germany is a captive of Russia, because they supply. They get rid of their cold plants, they get rid of their nuclear. They getting so much of the oil and gas from Russia.


ROBERTS: Later on in the afternoon the president sat down with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel, for a bilateral meeting. One that the president described as cordial, saying that they have a great relate in the United States, has a great relationship with both Merkel and Germany.

But listen to what Germany's Foreign minister said about the president's comments earlier today not holding back anything. Listen here.


HEIKO MASS, MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS, GERMANY (through translator): We are not prisoners, either of the United States or Russia. We are one of the guarantors of a free world and that will remain the case.


ROBERTS: The president today also again making the case that NATO nations, and there are only five of the 29 that are meeting their financial commitment need to pony up more money to support NATO. They need to share the funds for mutual defense.

The summit declaration suggesting that the NATO members all agree since this is a consensus document saying, "Fair burden-sharing underpins the Alliance's cohesion, solidarity, credibility, and ability to fulfill our Article 3, and article 5 commitments." And Martha, something very interesting happened tonight in regard to the president's upcoming summit with the Russian President Vladimir Putin that will take place in Helsinki, Finland on Monday. Theresa May, who you would probably never describe as a rabid fan of the president spoke out tonight at a NATO dinner fully supporting the president's engagement with Vladimir Putin.

Let's put up on the screen what Theresa May said in part, "I welcome President Trump's forthcoming meeting with President Putin, open channels of communication between the U.S. and Russia are key to managing the risks of confrontation."

A stark difference there from what the president has been hearing from his critics back home. Mostly, Democrats among them saying that the president should not sit down with Putin, that he's cozying up to Russia, that it's the wrong thing to do.

Well, there, the president has the support of a very important American ally. And again, somebody who I don't think you would ever describe as a rabid fan of the president. Martha?

MACCALLUM: Yes, and there may be some reasons for that. John, thank you very much. Good to see you tonight. Joining me now, Dr. Alan Mendoza, co- founder of the Henry Jackson Society and Marie Harf, Fox News analyst and former State Department spokesperson.

So, President Trump, essentially, Marie, and let me start with you. Calling for a new world order in the post-World War II, post-Cold War era that we're all living in. He's essentially saying to the nations in Europe and to the members of NATO, "Look, you're on your own, you've got to pull your weight, you have to pay into this alliance." And you know, you should think twice about entering into these deep economic connection relationships between Germany and Russia.

MARIE HARF, FOX NEWS ANALYST: Martha, what he said today that you just described going after our allies very publicly berating them, basically, going after the post-World War II transatlantic alliance that's underpinned so much of our security.

That is a very concerning move, it's very hurtful to U.S. national security. And look, we don't have allies as savors, we don't sign up to NATO and contribute to our mission because we're being nice to European countries, we do it because we have shared security interests and shared values.

And Donald Trump is sending a signal both to our friends, but more importantly to our adversaries like Russia that if he wants to threaten Europe, we not -- we may not stand by Europe, we may not come in and stand up to Russia if he wants -- if Putin wants to push further and further into Eastern Europe like he's been doing.

Martha, I'm going to be looking at the tone coming out of the Putin meeting next week and contrasting it with what we saw today. Today, he was very tough on our allies, and if he says really nice things about Putin that will be concerning to me.


MACCALLUM: All right, let's take a look. All right, understood. I'm sorry we're stepping on each other partly because we have a little bit of a delay.

But watch this montage from President Obama and President Bush. Watch.


OBAMA: Everybody has got to chip in. And I have had some concerns about a diminished level of defense spending among some of our partners in NATO.

BUSH: So, at this summit, I will encourage our European partners to increase their defense investments to support both NATO and E.U. operations.


MACCALLUM: All right, let's bring in Dr. Alan Mendoza. Both of those former presidents, Dr. Mendoza, saying that they wanted the NATO nations to pay, and I don't think it's necessarily attacking our European allies. It's saying, look, there -- there's a new sheriff in town, essentially. And whatever all the Presidents before have said, we actually mean it.

DR. ALAN MENDOZA, CO-FOUNDER, HENRY JACKSON SOCIETY: Yes, I think that's the key difference. I think, when you what -- you've got this -- with this president is a clear and determined vision to carry out what previous presidents have merely suggested which is that Europe should pay more.

And look, the real fact is, Europe should pay more. We know in Britain that we've been exceeding the two percent target for the last few years. We know that most European nations haven't, it's as much an issue for us as it is for the U.S.

The European partners within NATO pay for the collective defense that we know we need for transatlantic security. So, I think it's actually quite refreshing to have a president who's willing to actually mention what he wants and bang his fist on the table and say, come on guys, enough excuses, pay-off, this is collective defense, this is what you said you're going to do, now do it.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean these are partnerships. It's a partnership that is entered into with an agreement about how much of your GDP you will spend on defense. You've got an increasingly aggressive Russia. We have seen what happened in Crimea and the Ukraine, Marie. So, why would a country like Germany which has a very strong economy not be willing to pay their fair share?

HARF: Well, Martha, they should. And that's why as you just played Barack Obama, George W. Bush --


MACCALLUM: Right. So what's wrong with asking for it?

HARF: We have all asked for this, it's the way in which you do that. By saying that Germany is being held captive by Russia, by publicly berating them in such an aggressive way, I don't think that will be effective in changing German behavior if, regarding the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, or spending, we all want NATO countries to spend more.

I just think that the cost of getting that through publicly berating our allies is so great and it's chipping away at this alliance in ways that we cannot even predict now, we'll have negative impacts.


MACCALLUM: I don't know (INAUDIBLE). I just don't know, I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true, Marie, because what we have seen so far is that these nations are stepping up by sending more soldiers to the region, as NATO forces. They are also saying, yes, we are going to pay more. The president even went to saying four percent today.

But in terms of this specific deal that she was discussing. That he was discussing with regards to Angela Merkel and this Russian pipeline, this is something that has been in the pipeline for quite some time and has been criticized.

Here is Vice President Joe Biden at the time, saying that this was not a good deal for Germany or Europe. Watch.


JOE BIDEN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nord Stream 2 pipeline, we think is a fundamentally bad deal for Europe. To lock in greater reliance on Russia at this moment --


MACCALLUM: Dr. Mendoza, what do you think?

MENDOZA: Well, look, I think this is a long-standing problem. We've had the Germans playing two-faced politics on this issue for some time. You can't have a situation where you're taking energy from Russia, then stating it's the principal enemy you're defending against, not putting the money into the alliance you're supposed to be supporting, and going back to taking the energy, it does leave you a bit of a hostage.

I'm not sure I agree with the word occupation in this contest, but I would say it's a hostage situation. The Russians can turn off the taps at any time they want to, and it makes it very difficult for the Germans to have any credibility on this issue, particularly, when they are spending so little on defense.

This is the biggest economy in Europe, one of the big three in the world. What's going on that it is not spending this amount of money on a very simple pledge to get up to two percent and indeed beyond that? We need the Germans to contribute more.

MACCALLUM: You know, how do you think, Vladimir Putin, who obviously is watching all of this, and as we well know, President Trump says these things often as messages for the next coming meetings as much as he does to create the environment that he wants to create in the current meeting.

HARF: Right.

MACCALLUM: So, Vladimir Putin's watching this and he seen President Trump, asking everybody to pay their fair share, to up the ante, to increase defense, to do a peace through strength initiative with NATO against Russia. Marie?

HARF: Well, Vladimir Putin is playing the long game here. And he already is very concerned, I think I would say paranoid about NATO and NATO expansion. He is trying to push back against that.


HARF: But what will be -- what I think is interesting, Martha, is that the effects of Donald Trump going after our allies so publicly may not be felt today, and it may not be felt tomorrow, but it will weaken the alliance that has underpinned in anti-Russia Coalition for a long time.

And I think, Putin looks at this, especially, if Donald Trump goes there and says really nice things about Putin in Helsinki, I think, Putin looks at thinks -- this and thinks, maybe Donald Trump doesn't have Europe's back. Maybe I can do more meddling, and if I do that, Donald Trump may not stand up for NATO that's what Putin takes away from these comments today.

MACCALLUM: We'll see. Thank you very much to you both.


MACCALLUM: Great to have you here tonight. So, we are following breaking news back in the United States. Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, making an unusual request tonight of President Trump's Supreme Court pick. Why Rod Rosenstein wants a hand in Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation vetting procedure?

Plus my exclusive interview with U.S. ambassador to the U.K., Woody Johnson.


MACCALLUM: Is the president going to come here and tell her that he supports her, that he wants her to hold on to her prime ministership?



MACCALLUM: So this morning at the NATO meeting, the president laid it out on the table right away. He said Germany is basically a captive of Russia because they're going to do this pipeline deal. That got a lot of attention.

WOODY JOHNSON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.K.: Yes, well he kind of put it in perspective and that you know Russia's is one of the big adversaries that kind of NATO was set up to defend against. So having the you know, having a -- buying 30 percent of the natural gas from Russia and then sending euros back to Russia well you know, was confusing to the president -- I think not really confusing the President, he saw it as something that was in conflict with what NATO was all about.

MACCALLUM: It looks like he's getting countries to pay more and to commit more military resources.

JOHNSON: Yes I think it's been up. It's like up 80 billion in the last couple of years. So it's -- he's making significant advances. But a lot of what -- these NATO countries have done as they said, well, we will meet a target by 2024, we'll meet two percent by 2024 and you know that -- that's not Donald Trump. President Trump --

MACCALLUM: He's not going to wait that long.

JOHNSON: No, no. He says two percent is a minimum, not a maximum.


MACCALLUM: So it's just part of my exclusive interview today with the U.S. Ambassador to the U.K. Woody Johnson. I also sat down with him to talk about the other big news that was out of NATO today and asked what he thought of President Donald Trump telling NATO leaders that it's actually time they increase their defense spending, not to two percent of GDP but four percent, double the group's original goal. Watch this.


JOHNSON: Well, I think he knows that you get peace through strength and just kind of limping along here we're probably not going to get to where we want to be. So having a strong and united Europe through NATO is something that he's always been in favor of but the funding has been sporadic and you know, most nations haven't lived up to the two percent minimum agreement that they all signed. Now, the U.K. is an exception to that and they have been spending to the two percent and they should probably go to a little higher as well but at least they're meeting their commitment and that's why there's such a valuable ally to the U.S.

MACCALLUM: There's a piece in The Wall Street Journal, President Trump's plan to change the world and a lot of discussion about the fact that he's breaking down these post-World War Two martial plan norms that we've all lived under and saying maybe that's not the way we should do things now.

JOHNSON: Well, I think that's why the American people voted him in because they knew they had somebody that was willing to look at things differently and particularly as long-term -- some of these long-term deals that have been in place for 20, 30, 40 years. They obviously need a fresh look and nobody really had the courage to do that because there's certain risks to doing any of that. And why would you spend your presidency trying to look at all these old agreements? But I think his rationale is that it helps the American people and it helps us through both security and prosperity and he talks about jobs, jobs, jobs. A lot of these agreements in his -- in his opinion have led to the jobs leaving the country and going elsewhere and he wants to bring those jobs back. And so he's taking a hard look at these trade arrangements and defense arrangements and I think -- I think it's great.

MACCALLUM: The other day he said I'm going to meet with Theresa May, I'm going to go to NATO, and then I'm going to see Putin. Putin might be the easiest one of all. What did you think about that comment?

JOHNSON: Meeting was that in juxtaposition to the NATO meeting I think makes a lot of sense. And meeting with your adversary is not necessarily a bad idea ever. Something might happen for the positive and if even if it's a small amount of understanding that we can get greater possibility of peace and tranquillity, that'd be a positive.

MACCALLUM: So in terms of what is happening here in the U.K., you've got a government in crisis many people would say. Theresa May trying to hold on to her position. She's lost nine cabinet members I think in recent days. Do you think -- is the President going to come here and tell her that he supports her, that he wants her to hold on to her prime ministership?

JOHNSON: I think he's going to stress the importance of having Great Britain as an ally as our maybe our most trusted an important ally in security. We do so much together that helps our ability to carry out our missions around the world so there are they're a good Ally and so we're working and we have a lot in common with prosperity. We've a million -- I don't know if you know this -- we have a million jobs here by American companies and a million jobs by British company so it's a gigantic relationship.

MACCALLUM: What do you think about Brexit and the fight that's going on right now?

JOHNSON: It really boils down to sovereignty. If you can't control your borders you lose a certain amount of that national sovereignty which I think he feels is very important. But I think what the President is going to come out is that he firmly believes that a bilateral trade agreement with the U.K. and the U.S. would be positive for the U.K. and positive for the U.S. and very -- and lift jobs and lifts prosperity here in a major way. And that's goods selling goods and agricultural products and all the things that we manufacture and sell and produce in the U.S.

MACCALLUM: But obviously Theresa May and others in Europe have been very upset about these trade tariffs that the President has put in place that he's trying to shift the order of all of that. He obviously wants to see those deficits lower. What's the response going to be for him here?

JOHNSON: London is where they're probably the most important for remain exists. But if you go out in the country including London, there's a lot of people that feel that Brexit is good and to take back the country from European control and take back the country from the court of justice and some other things that were maybe impeding the growth here and certainly impeding the feeling of sovereignty.

MACCALLUM: I mean that's the battle that's going on.


MACCALLUM: And do you think you're going to see a change in government here? Nigel Farage said the other day, he said in a fortnight Theresa May could be gone.

JOHNSON: No, I can't predict that. She's pretty solid leader. She's got a very, very difficult hand to play. And I've always said that I respect Theresa May, the Prime Minister and her ability to navigate this very treacherous water and with all the disparate points of view and I think she's done it skillfully.


MACCALLUM: So, very interesting, right? Look at this though, a big baby Trump blimp is set to fly over Parliament tomorrow. Protestors are said to be flooding the streets on Friday but Ambassador Johnson says he believes there's another side to this story.


MACCALLUM: His approval ratings are pretty low here.

JOHNSON: I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's the -- it depends -- approval ratings have not been very accurate, you'll have to agree.


MACCALLUM: And also tonight, why Rod Rosenstein wants a role in vetting the President's Supreme Court pick? What's going on here? Former Chief Speechwriter for President George W. Bush Marc Thiessen weighs in next.


SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: The Senate must now be able to have access and time to adequately review all documents, e-mails, other paperwork associated with Judge Kavanaugh before the process moves forward.


MACCALLUM: So critics go after Judge Kavanaugh saying that his name sounds too frat boy for real. That was one of the criticisms that was leveled at him today. And now Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has sent a personal request for basically an all-hands-on-deck to start digging into the voluminous amount of work history that the judge has. So is that typical? Is that the way it's done? Here now Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar, former Chief Speechwriter for President George W. Bush and a Fox News Contributor. Good to have you here, Marc. Good evening.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: Good to be with you, Martha. My pleasure.

MACCALLUM: I heard you enjoyed the last segment because you wrote the speech that we played a clip from that George W. Bush where he was speaking about NATO paying up.

THIESSEN: Yes, I wrote many speeches for George W. Bush urging NATO to pay up. I wrote speeches for Don Rumsfeld urging NATO to pay up and the defense investments during their period in office went down in Europe. So good for Donald Trump for --

MACCALLUM: You're very persuasive, Marc.

THIESSEN: I know, I'm really good. Big talent, but you know, Donald Trump --

MACCALLUM: You are really good. You are really good. Maybe it's not an (INAUDIBLE).

THIESSEN: But you know, Donald Trump did the right thing.

MACCALLUM: So let's talk about Rod Rosenstein -- well, OK, you should maybe write some speeches for him sometimes but he's got his point across. That's to be sure. So let's talk a little bit about what Rod Rosenstein is doing.


MACCALLUM: "New York Times" piece tonight saying that he sent a special memo saying, you know, please do this for me, I need an all hands on deck as we dig into these documents. Is that typical?

THIESSEN: It is typical if the Justice Department always does this process. It's run by the office of legal policy. And in the case of Judge Kavanaugh, the Democrats have been running around saying we have to delay this confirmation because the record is so voluminous.

But what Rod Rosenstein is doing is saying all hands on deck, I need 100 lawyers working on this so that we can go through this and get it ready so the Senate can confirm him.

So the Democrats can't have it both ways. They can't complain on one hand that there is such a voluminous record that we can't consider -- that we can consider it and then complain that Rod Rosenstein is pulling all these career lawyers in to do this vetting. And the vetting is not political. So this is what's called a privilege and relevance review.

What that means is career lawyers go through and see what record -- go through all the records and see what can and cannot be shared with Congress. Sp there are certain things that are executive privilege. There are certain things that are not relevant to the confirmation.

He worked in the White House for a long time so his communications with the president are privileged, for example. So what they are doing is doing a nonpolitical review of what is privilege, what is not privilege, what can be shared, what cannot be shared, and later there's a political review that's not done by career lawyers, that are done by political appointees that are helping him through that confirmation.

This is standard operating procedure. It's just there's more of it. And so they need more lawyers to do it well.

MACCALLUM: So what are you picking up here? I mean, obviously there's a lot of opposition. There is a lot of pushback and as we said in the intro, you know, there are some critical groups who are even going after his name. They don't like his name, they say it sounds frat boy. I mean, you know, it becomes ridiculous.


MACCALLUM: And he should be judged on his record, of course. But what do you think on the red flags here for him?

THIESSEN: Well, I think that the Democrats are desperate to try and stop this because they have no power. Through their own mistakes over a 15-year history where they screw this up to the point where they filibustered Neil Gorsuch, who was supremely qualified and gave Republicans the, -- who are traditional brand and didn't want to change the Senate rules, no choice but to have to change the Senate rules to confirm him.

Now they don't have a filibuster when they should have saved it for Kennedy's replacement they would have a filibuster right now and some power. So they've completely denuded themselves in this process and as long as Republicans stick together, which all signs are they will, he's going to get confirmed.

So they are flailing. They are looking for issues, they are looking for anything they can come up with whether it's his name or some law reviews article that he wrote from a long time ago, they will try to throw anything at him because they understand the stakes in this confirmation are not just -- Gorsuch just secured Scalia's seat and the conservative majority with Kennedy as the swing vote.

This is now replacing a swing vote with a solid -- a conservative in the mold of Gorsuch and Scalia and that's going to change the court for a generation and so they are -- and they are powerless to stop it, so they are flailing everything they can add it. It's going to be ugly.

MACCALLUM: Well, the process for Republicans has been unsuccessful from their perspective at times because they were not always good at choosing judges who were really about sticking to the meat and the bones of the Constitution and who swayed from it. Textualist, however you want to refer to them.


MACCALLUM: Do you think that the process has sort of meted out those issues for Republicans?

THIESSEN: I think that Republicans, through a long process of trial and error, with more error than success, have figured out a way to get the right people on the court.

I mean, the Democrats are batting a thousand when it comes to Supreme Court appointments over the last 30 years because Democrats approach the court from an outcome-based perspective.

They want to know are you going to uphold this law, are you going to overturn this law, are you going to secure -- what they are talking about right now, are you going to uphold Roe v. Wade.


THIESSEN: Are you going -- they want to know the outcome is. Conservatives don't approach the law that way. Conservatives approach the law through judicial restraint. And so it's much harder to choose judges and know how it's going to turn out.


THIESSEN: And so our guys don't defect to their side except for -- their guys don't defect to us, but our guys defect to them a lot of the time so it's tough.

MACCALLUM: Interesting. Scalia once said you know you are doing a good job as a judge when you don't like your own decision sometimes because you stuck to the law.

THIESSEN: Exactly.

MACCALLUM: Marc, very good to see tonight. Thank you very much.

THIESSEN: Good to see you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You, too.

So, Prime Minister Theresa May has lost nine cabinet ministers in recent months. She could face a no-confidence vote as critics say that she is bailing on Brexit.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have the U.K., which is in somewhat turmoil.


TRUMP: Well, that's up to the people.


MACCALLUM: Nigel Farage, former leader of the U.K. Independence Party says he will get back in to save real Brexit. He's up next.


MACCALLUM: Soccer jubilation turned to sadness tonight that swept the streets and the towns of England as their beloved team lost to Croatia in the World Cup. It was a mood that is everywhere tonight and it is a mood that has been felt in parliament quite a bit lately as British Prime Minister Theresa May battles to save her version of how she sees the Brexit process.

The brash British departure from the E.U. that was steeped in independence and taking back the country, but now she is patching holes in her cabinet as ministers jump ship and President Trump says he may meet with one of them while he's here. Boris Johnson.

Nigel Farage led the movement and the candidate, Trump, President Trump at the time cheered him on.


MACCALLUM: So he is coming to England, he's going to meet with Theresa May. What do you think he is going to say to her, Nigel?

FARAGE: Donald Trump believes in nation-states. Donald Trump believes in sovereignty. Donald Trump cheered Brexit on because he thought it was a return to normality. You know, people want to control their own borders, make their own laws, be a normal nation. Not be run by a bunch of bureaucrats based in Brussels.

And isn't just Trump, you know, John Bolton, all those people around Donald Trump believe in this. Now what Mrs. May has done is frankly to behave totally dishonestly with the British public. She told us Brexit means Brexit. We will take back control of our laws, our borders and our money.

The compromise that she put forward at Checquers last week, the P.M.'s country home, frankly, it was a betrayal of those things. Middle England is in uproar over this. I've never seen, you know, just middle-class conservative people angrier than they are right now with the prime minister and I think in private, Trump is going to say to her what on earth are you doing? Don't you understand that if you continue down this course you will destroy the conservative party?

MACCALLUM: I mean, the message is that brought President Trump into the presidency and the Brexit message have so many similarities.

FARAGE: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: As you talked about. And how in the more rural areas of the country and the working-class parts of the country like our western Pennsylvania--


MACCALLUM: -- and Michigan and Wisconsin, in Middle England people are saying that they want to have control of their own country.

And we were talking about this earlier in terms of President Trump's vision for kind of remaking and throwing the chess board up in the air and saying, you know what, your pieces aren't necessarily where they've always been and you are going to have to get used to that. Do you think that he is working to reorder our alliances with Europe and with the U.K.?

FARAGE: Well, he certainly on NATO today.


FARAGE: You know what he said is pretty straightforward, isn't it? Now previous American presidents have said this, but they've never actually meant it. The point about Trump is when he says something he does mean it.

Yes, Donald Trump is looking at reshaping the world in many ways and he's being rather successful with it. I think this visit could turn out for Mrs. May to be very embarrassing indeed. Because one of the worst things she's done, she's made a trade deal between the U.S. and the U.K., now virtually impossible.

So her Brexit deal affects not just our democracy but some American interests as well. It's going to be a very interesting couple of days.

MACCALLUM: So the president spoke to Boris Johnson and he may meet with him when he's here. Here's the message that he put out there as he left the White House. Watch this.


TRUMP: Boris Johnson is a friend of mine. He's been very, very nice to me, very supportive, and I maybe will speak to him when I get over there. I like Boris Johnson, I've always liked him.


MACCALLUM: I like Boris, I've always liked him, maybe I will speak to him when I get over there. Do you think they will meet while he's here?

FARAGE: Well, Boris has not always been supportive of Donald Trump.


FARAGE: And during the campaign he did not support Trump, but he has tried to mend fences with the president. If Donald Trump meets Boris Johnson, he sending a signal that he wants Mrs. May removed. That would be a big moment. A very big moment.

MACCALLUM: It certainly would. And we heard tonight that Theresa May is sort of sending a little, you know, message of sweetness and lie about the Putin visit that President Trump is going to do.


MACCALLUM: She said I'm on board, I think it's a great idea for them to sit down together. Do you think that she is trying to create, you know, a warm environment for their--


FARAGE: She's missed her chance. She showed today, at the NATO summit have said to the rest of Europe, what Donald Trump is saying is right. This is a club, whether you are big or small as a country, you all pay 2 percent.

She could have been the bridge, the broker between Trump and the rest of Europe. She blew the opportunity and I will be honest with you, you know, I think in my own view this is the worst prime minister we've seen in my lifetime.

MACCALLUM: You said the last time we spoke when I was in New York, you said she should be out in a fortnight. Do you still believe that?

FARAGE: Yes, I do.

MACCALLUM: And are those 48 letters forthcoming from the Tory M.P's that could start that process?

FARAGE: By this weekend we'll see some fresh opinion polls showing where her rating and the party's rating is with the public. If what I'm picking up from Middle England, their sense of betrayal of what she's doing with Brexit. You know, if I've got this right they will have slumped in the polls for the weekend and I think next week those letters will go in.

MACCALLUM: She doesn't seem to be feeling that. She seems to feel confident that she is going to be able hang on.

FARAGE: Well, she think she can hang on, but believe me, if she hangs on, not only does Brexit get sold down the river in its true form, but the chances of socialist Corbyn becoming the next prime minister get greater. I think frankly, the conservative party have got to come to their senses.

MACCALLUM: In terms of conservative leadership, who would take over that role? Who do you think?

FARAGE: Well, the man that really wants it--

MACCALLUM: How about you?

FARAGE: Well, I -- what I've said is if they continue to mess up Brexit, I will get myself back in the frontlines of British politics and I hope that threat alone is enough to make them -- because they don't like me very much because I forced this whole Brexit thing upon them. It's made their lives very tough.

I think in terms of the conservative party now, Boris clearly wants the job and that's why if Trump meets him when he's here it will be a big thing.

MACCALLUM: Fascinating. It really is. And the implications for the United States are so integral to all of this.

FARAGE: Absolutely.

MACCALLUM: And when you talk about the possibility of Theresa May standing up like that and sticking up for what the United States is saying, that would be a special relationship.

FARAGE: She had the chance to do it today and she didn't do it.

MACCALLUM: It's a great point. Fascinating point. Nigel, thank you. Good to see you tonight.

FARAGE: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So coming up next, as we mentioned, the president arrive here tomorrow. So how will he be received? There's lots of discussion about negativity and protest. Are we really going to see that? That's coming out.


MACCALLUM: Do you think that these protests are going to turn out to not be a big deal?




MACCALLUM: Do you think that these protests are going to turn out to not be a big deal or do you think--

WOODY JOHNSON, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO UNITED KINGDOM: I mean, I think the way I've always looked at these protests is it's one of the reasons that these two countries, the U.S. and the U.K. are so close, it's because we have the freedoms that we have all fought for.

And one of the freedoms we have is freedom of speech and the freedom to express your views. And I know that that's valued very highly over here. And people can disagree strongly and still go out to dinner.

MACCALLUM: Well, it will be interesting to see if his visit changes people's minds here about him, for those who are maybe not supportive at this point.

JOHNSON: Changing people's mind is a very temporary thing. I think long term people have a lot of confidence in the U.S. They love this country, they love the U.S. and the relationship is long and close and enduring based on trust and history and language and all the things that each party brings to the table. So I think ultimately it's going to be very, very successful.

MACCALLUM: You have said that one of the president's most important moments here is meeting the queen. What do you anticipate in that meeting, and have you spoken to the palace about the arrangements for that get together?

JOHNSON: Well, the queen is very experienced in meeting presidents. She has met every president since Harry Truman as queen. So she knows. She knows what she's doing and it's going to be a great experience for him. It's going to be one that he'll really cherish, meeting the queen. She has been at it for 65 years. She's a true professional. And a great leader in her position. So, that's what it is.


MACCALLUM: Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: Good to speak with you tonight.

JOHNSON: Thank you. Nice to see you, Martha.


MACCALLUM: U.S. Ambassador to the United Kingdom, Woody Johnson, predicting a warm welcome for President Trump when he arrives in England tomorrow despite warnings from the U.S. State Department urging American citizens in and around London to, quote, "keep a low profile." Fearing that these protests could get heated out there.

The president will be hosted by Prime Minister May at Winston Churchill's ancestral home, Blenheim Palace at a black-tie dinner tomorrow evening and then it is down to business on Friday with the prime minister, and then he will have a private meeting with Queen Elizabeth at Windsor Castle, and nobody but those flies on the wall will know what happens in there.

So joining me now, Nile Gardiner, the director of the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom at the Heritage Foundation. And Capri Cafaro, the executive in residence at American University School of Public Affairs, and a Washington Examiner contributor. Welcome to both of you.

Great to have you here tonight. So, sort of two parts to this discussion. Nile, in terms of the protest, we've heard a lot. We know that that residence is surrounded with very high fences at this point for security. What do you do you anticipate?

GARDINER: You know, I expect some pretty big protests here in London. I think you're going to see a left-wing anarchist from all over Europe, not just the United Kingdom showing up.

Some of them certainly will try and commit acts of violence here in London but I think the authorities are very well prepared.

But I do think the vast majority of the British people believe strongly the Anglo-American special relationship and will give a warm welcome actually to the United States president who is of course a great friend of Great Britain.

But without a doubt we are going to see some scenes of disruption on the streets of London and that's to be expected with the visit of any U.S. president here.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, there are always protest in the streets when presidents visit the U.K.


MACCALLUM: The ambassador, we spoke about that. Why do think is there a unique kind of outrage about this president, and why in the U.K.?

CAFARO: Well, I think that there's a number of factors that play here. I mean, when you take a look at, for example, some of the interface between President Trump and the G7 at the meeting in Quebec. If you look at sort of the backdrop of how President Trump has interacted with NATO allies, for example.

I think that there is a bit of a hesitation, not just in the United Kingdom, but you know, across our European allies, the traditional post- World War II allies that have really sort of created that stability globally are now questioning where does the United States stand as far as a long-term alliance is concerned?

There is no question that the British people, the United Kingdom, and the American people will have the special relationship for generations to come, but right now I think that there is some tension here. I have faith that they will be peaceful protests, but there's no question there is going to be some acrimony.


MACCALLUM: It's interesting to see how it plays out. The queen, as the ambassador said, she's a pro. She's been at this since President Truman and Winston Churchill. She's also very curious about people. I think she's going to be very curious, is my guess, to meet Donald Trump and to have a discussion with him. What do you think, Nile?

GARDINER: I think she will certainly be very much looking forward to this meeting actually. The queen of course is one of the greatest leaders on the world stage and she's meeting today with the -- tomorrow actually with the leader of the free world.

So I think that, you know, this is a highly significant meeting. I think that, you know, you're dealing with two characters with tremendous charisma and I think this is going to be a tremendous meeting actually. So I'm very much looking forward and I'm sure the queen is looking forward to this.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It's going to be something to see. Thank you, guys. Great to see you both tonight. We'll see you further on--

GARDINER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: -- as we continue through the week. More of The Story live from London when we come back.


MACCALLUM: Back here tomorrow night, Jeremy Hunt, the brand-new U.K. foreign minister who had replaced Boris Johnson after his sudden walk out over the week over Brexit negotiations. But he will be my exclusive guest tomorrow night.

Also always outspoken Piers Morgan recently found himself caught in the battle between President Trump and the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan. He will be with me tomorrow night exclusively as well at 7 p.m.

And as the president sits down with Prime Minister Theresa May, we are reminded of the words Winston Churchill and our quote of the night. He coined the phrase special relationship and offer this advice. "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. It is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

"The Story" continues tomorrow night live from London at 7 p.m. Eastern. Tucker Carlson is up next in D.C.

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