Turnout key to unpredictable Alabama Senate race

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Turnout key to unpredictable Alabama Senate race

Pollsters say the race between Roy Moore and Doug Jones is particularly difficult to gauge; Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum join 'The Five' for reaction and analysis.

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 12, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Election day in Alabama. Voters have three more hours to choose between Republican Roy Moore or Democrat Doug Jones. Polls close at 7 p.m. local time, 8 p.m. Eastern. It's a race the nation has been closely following after the Washington Post broke a story last month alleging Moore engaged in sexual misconduct with minors decades ago. Can Moore pull off a victory tonight? He was down ten points according to our most recent Fox poll. We have two election experts with us at the table tonight, Bret Baier and Martha MacCallum are hosting special coverage tonight on the Fox News Channel. Welcome to you both.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS: Thanks for having us.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Another election night. Can you believe it?

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS: Here we go again, right?

PERINO: I was saying to Bret earlier, it feels like 2016 never really ended.

MACCALLUM: No, it never did. We've been covering the 2016 election for, you know, going on three years now.

BAIER: This would be fascinating. It's all going to come down to turnout, who comes, who doesn't. And I think we're going to get a sense of things, 6:00, early 7:00, we'll have our own exit polls this year.

PERINO: Fox News voter analysis now.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Very exciting.

BAIER: Fancy name.

PERINO: Yeah, they have a new message.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: What is it?

PERINO: It's a mix of calls and internet.

GUTFELD: I didn't want to know. I was just being polite.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He actually doesn't care at all.

MACCALLUM: I think it's going to be very interesting referendum tonight on the whole issue of sexual harassment, which has obviously become so front and center. So will these voters say that this is something that is so serious and so egregious what Roy Moore was accused of and he says he didn't do that it causes them to vote against him. I think there's going to be a lot of take away for that, for other races as well since you've got a lot of people, sort of, clamoring down there. You've got Cory Booker down there. People who clearly want to make this an issue going forward in 2018 and 2020. So, it's going to be our first test.

WATTERS: So if he wins, let's assume for sake of argument, Moore wins, what would be the message for other politicians that are dealing with their own sexual misconduct allegations? Is the message -- you know, if I deny, deny, deny, and make it about a fake news, Washington establishment conspiracy against me, I can hang on?

BAIER: Well, or that you're a Republican in Alabama.

WATTERS: And that's a specific state.

BAIER: The Democrat Doug Jones says if he wins and, you know, our poll had him up 10 as of yesterday, they said if he won, that it would be because Democrat could win in Alabama. And that is in doubt many years because it's about as deep red as any state can be.

PERINO: Yeah. President Trump, Kimberly, won by 28 points. So Moore could lose by -- lose Republicans by 25 points and still eke out a win.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. It's going to come down to, really, just getting the vote out and who was more persuasive in doing that. And compelling voters to go out there and make sure the Democrats have a lot to gain by having an upset here, so I would expect that their ground game would be good. The advantages you would think would go to the Republican candidate, but President Trump really waited a little but to get in this and doing a last minute robocall. Yet, he stood down and didn't condemn him like others in the Republican Party did. But is that going to be enough to give the push to kind of have that popularity and groundswell support from President Trump transfer over to Roy.

GUTFELD: You know, I have to say. I've been pretty hard on Moore, and I think I've changed my mind on him. Did you know that his lawyer is a Jew?

GUILFOYLE: I hear that.

GUTFELD: False rumors is black. And his best tailor is gay. I'm in.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You're in.

GUTFELD: I'm in. And I don't even vote in Alabama. But the problem with this whole election.

WATTERS: Maybe we should give some context.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: His lawyer is a Jew. That's important.

PERINO: Yeah. Because you want to make sure that no thought they're anti- Semitic. To say, hey, you know. Check out our legal team.

GUTFELD: I've said this before. I feel bad for the Alabamians because they're presented with an -- almost an artificially polarizing choice. If you vote Democrat, therefore you're voting for an antigun, you know, antilife, pro-abortion, and you're going to burn in hell. But if you vote for Moore, you're voting for a pedophile and you're going to burn in hell. That's the two choices you have. I love America. We only have two choices. It's either the pedophile or it's the traitor.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. Well, that's what the wealthy say in Alabama, especially if you're black and you're a civil right activist. But let me just say, and explaining what you were talking about, that he has said things about George Soros, who's a Democrat, big fund-raiser for the Democrat, and Jewish, and suggest, oh, well, it doesn't matter. Soros doesn't believe in Christ, he's going to hell anyway. And that's what started the whole discussion about the anti-Semitic. But today, I think, you know -- by the way, Kimberly, I think President Trump going to Pensacola and getting involve in the Alabama media market was making a pitch and it's been very clear that he is endorsing Roy Moore.

GUILFOYLE: Still a little late in the game. He didn't endorse him to begin with him.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: There is news today for Mitch McConnell who said Luther Strange is going to stay in the senate through the end of his term no matter what. So he's going to have that Republican vote, if that's the concern. But the thing I'm going to raise was that today it's also the talk about sexual harassment back at the White House because of a tweet from President Trump with regard to Kirsten Gillibrand. So you think about how sexual harassment is going to play in Alabama. Look at how it's playing in this country. Here's a respond for Gillibrand.

PERINO: Well, actually, I do have the sound from Sarah Huckabee Sanders who answered this at the White House, so we can roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: That comment, frankly, isn't something new. If you look back at past comments this president has made, he's used that same terminology many times in reference to men. There's no way that this is sexist at all. This is simply talking about a system that we have that is broken in which special interests control our government. I think if your mind is in the gutter, would you have read it that way? And -- so, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I love that.

PERINO: It's hilarious?

GUTFELD: I thought her answer was excellent. And you should have seen April Ryan -- is that her name? The look on her face. Sarah is absolutely right. He has used that same line with men forever. And if actually you read sexism into that comment, you're the sexist because if you believe woman cannot handle that line the way men do, which is that they'll do anything.

WATTERS: Well, he did it with Mitt Romney.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Begging for my endorsement. I could have said, Mitt, drop to your knees. He would have drop to his knees.

(CROSSTALK) GUTFELD: I'm talking about when he said it to Cruz, that Cruz would do anything. So he has said we'll do anything and he says anything. But when you say, oh, my God, that's sexist. In your head, you're saying that women cannot handle the same insults that a man. The weird thing about Trump is he insults everybody.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Everybody.

WILLIAMS: But Greg, you would admit that, gee, that crossed my mind when I've read that comment. He's insulting about a woman.

GUTFELD: About a woman. You're a sexist. It's about a woman.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: My mind is not in the gutter, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you something, I wouldn't speak that way to a woman. I think you're getting.

GUTFELD: That's sexist.

WILLIAMS: . that be in big trouble.

GUTFELD: That's sexist. If you can say it to Cruz, you can say it to Gillibrand. That's the ultimate color-blind, sex-blind world we should live in.

MACCALLUM: I agree with you. And I also think -- you know, when you look at this, this is like typical Trump counterpunch, right? And that's another that he stuck up for Roy Moore because he saw that this conversation was going to circle back.

GUTFELD: Right.

MACCALLUM: . because that's what's been going on in the country. So he's saying Roy Moore is pushing back against the allegations, saying they're not true. He's allowed to say that. And President Trump is saying the same thing and he is going to push back. There are plenty of men, Al Franken and others, who have said I'm retiring, I'm resigning, I'm getting out of the game, I'm done doing this. But there are some men who are not going to take that route and he's one of them.

BAIER: And what he does often is get to the line, right where the line is, and then says why are you thinking this? When Elizabeth Warren tweets that it was slut shaming in her tweets that sent Washington into a tizzy.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: I don't like that either.

GUTFELD: Like Warren is doing something -- not Trump, but he gets to the line because it allows for ambiguity. Anybody can interpret it now. You have to -- and then everybody becomes a mind reader. Oh, he meant this. He meant that. It's like you can argue.

BAIER: But he has a history of meaning over the line.

GUTFELD: I think this one was sufficiently under the line.

WILLIAMS: Really? I don't see.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I don't see gender or color, Juan.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Not anymore?

MACCALLUM: You know, I think the saying that someone will do anything for money is a very low blow whether you're talking about a man or woman. And we saw that he said a similar thing about Mitt Romney, similar thing about Ted Cruz. So I do think that the decent argument and lining up the things that he said in the past. And we know that he's willing to go there to that level with human beings. And I don't think it necessarily has to do whether it's a man or woman.

WATTERS: Well, it's not something a politician whatever saying he's not a politician. He's a businessman who donated to Democrats and Republicans, so he's used to dealing with that. Let me ask you guys because, you know, D.C. people, here you understand the senate. I'm sure you saw my brilliant commentary yesterday, Bret.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: Moore winning this race and going into the senate, and it's a very social environment. Is he a pariah when he gets there? No one wants to dine with him. No one wants to associate with him. Does that incapacitate him as the representative of the people from Alabama?

BAIER: Well, listen, I think the Republican Party -- establishment Republican Party is looking at it as a tough moment. How to deal with it. It is a two-year seat. So they're thinking no matter what happens, they're going to get a Republican back in 2020, whether it's Roy Moore or not. I do think some people have been pretty bold and what they're saying in the senate about trying to get rid of him should he sit. I just don't think that that's going to happen.

WATTERS: Why you don't think that's going to happen?

BAIER: No, I don't think the people of Alabama, after voting, if he wins, would stand up and say you can't take him out.

MACCALLUM: That's a little different than saying that you could be on the hill, keep your seat, and be a pariah. And I would argue that before any of this even happened Roy Moore was in that position just based on his prior controversial statements. He was already in a rough spot going in. I mean, remember, before any of this happened, Mitch McConnell didn't want him there. President Trump didn't want him there.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, do you think he dug the hole deeper with all of this? But he's always going to be in a tough spot.

WILLIAMS: You know what I think is the telling blow though and, you know, could be something that we look back on, especially if Jones wins, is Richard Shelby, the senior senator from Alabama saying he can't vote for Roy Moore. And it's more than just Shelby as a senior member of leadership in the senate saying it. I think you have is inside Alabama, the business establishment especially saying that if we select Roy Moore, it's going to send a message to the business community, nationwide, globally about who we are. We want to change our image. We want to see more open to people.

BAIER: He also said he couldn't vote for Doug Jones.

WILLIAMS: Right. But he just said he voted for a right in. But I think that when you see people now saying, you know what, we've got to change our image in Alabama. I think it became kind of a closing argument and it comes from Republicans, which is why I think you have Republicans at Republicans in Alabama over Roy Moore.

BAIER: Well, Cory Gardner from Colorado said that the Republican senate campaign committee was not going to get into that race. They would not going to support Moore. The RNC broadly did, but the senate campaign did not. And so, that's a problem on day one.

WATTERS: Are you saying that it becomes like a North Carolina bathroom problem where people start pulling out of conferences, they start pulling out of the all-star game, and they have to switch position.

WILLIAMS: You get a lot of sports.

WATTERS: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: . that wouldn't play. I mean, but to come back to Shelby, he technically would be the one who would lead Roy Moore down to swear him in, in most situations. It ain't going to happen, I don't think.

GUILFOYLE: Jesse is more concerned about the lunch politics, whether or not he has a lunch buddy.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: It's going to be Moore at the one table.

GUILFOYLE: I think that that table is getting bigger.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All right. Bret and Martha will update us throughout the night as the votes are counted. Thanks to you both for joining us.

GUTFELD: It was quite a pleasure.

BAIER: I mean, this is quite something.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Ahead, the family of the accused Manhattan subway bomber is outraged at law enforcement. Wait until you hear this one, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: I don't know the Muslim word for chutzpah but the family of yesterday's failed New York bomber is full of it. They're attacking law enforcement for so-called "heavy-handed tactics." What say you, New York chapter, the Council on American Islamic Relations? I bet you're outraged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERT FOX CAHN, CAIR NEW YORK: We're also outraged by the behavior of the law enforcement officials who have held children as small as 4 years old out in the cold, and who pulled a teenager out of high school classes to interrogate him without a lawyer, without his parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: The children! They put children out in the cold -- which can happen when you take them outside briefly to a waiting car. And I'm sure the teen jerked out of high school was heartbroken. He was probably busy in shop class building a clock.

But it's a common reflex to use kids as a defense. Clearly it's not about the terror attack at all, but about the children. But they're right: We shouldn't be questioning the family, we should be putting them up in a five-star hotel with nothing but the best food and entertainment. Maybe tickets to a show. Try "Book of Mormon" -- you'd get a kick out of that. Or why not visit the Freedom Tower for a guided tour?

CAIR also said this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAHN: These are not the sorts of actions we expect from our justice system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Well, terrorism is not the sort of thing we expect from decent, law-abiding humans. But yeah, it's our justice system we've got to worry about.

So I offer this humble suggestion to the family: It's the justice system that is protecting you from your own family member. So you should not only thank these officers, but also you should cooperate because if this were any other country -- including the one that you left -- family members of a terrorist would be collected and probably never heard from again. But I guess that's why you're here -- for now.

Dana, tone-deaf response?

PERINO: From them?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: A reflective response. I mean, do you see that the (INAUDIBLE) especially in the U.K. where -- I understand their concern, right, but they're reflect is to use our system against us.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: And to say, oh, you are doing something bad to us, like, no. Actually, the police are worried about children too, which is exactly why they came to try to find it because the police are in a race against time.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Because what if there was something coordinated. What if somebody knew that there was actually multiple bombs that are being made in the house and they were found out across the city. And so time is of the essence and our law enforcement deserves our full support.

GUTFELD: You know, Kimberly, they're concerned about the safety of the family, too. They don't want that kid to be beaten up or whatever. Their priority is to make sure everybody is taken to a safe place and they could be questioned. What's wrong with that?

GUILFOYLE: Well, there isn't anything wrong with it, obviously. But this is kind of the tactic that they do. This is just really kind of like the book, they go by the book. OK, we're going to attack law enforcement. We're going to attack the American justice system. We're going to find any way we can to find fault with it to distract and deflect and flip the script on them to say that this is really about an injustice being committed against a terrorists. But is anybody really buying this beside CAIR?

WATTERS: No.

GUILFOYLE: Because this is what they do. It's why they don't have any credibility and they go ahead and they're sympathizes for terrorists and for jihad and they're enablers, and I have no time for it.

GUTFELD: Juan, should the law apologize to the family?

WILLIAMS: When this first started, I thought, well, what did they do? Do they hurt somebody? Did they beat somebody up? I mean, in my mind, we live in a country where you just have to take your hat. I mean, I think of a situation where the guy was from New Jersey, and he was -- I forget exactly what the attack was, maybe here on Time Square. And, you know, they took him to the hospital.

GUTFELD: Was it the Chelsea attack? I'm not sure.

WILLIAMS: I'm not sure. Anyway, my point is, that guy gets first-rate, world-class medical treatment, same thing with this guy. This guy is in the hospital. And I think that you're right, there are a lot of places where, you know, savage human reaction would rule the day. Not in the USA, thank God, but that's true. So when they said this, I thought, well, were they rough-housing the family or did they rouse them out in there? What they say? They took a child outside -- I think it's 40 degrees yesterday.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

WILLIAMS: Come on.

GUTFELD: I know. Jesse, did you see, I guess, the terrorist had posted comments about Trump on Facebook?

WATTERS: Yes, he was taunting the president.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. He said, thank you for -- you failed to protect America.

WATTERS: Yeah, good one, buddy. And he also set off the bombs because he was offended by a bunch of Christmas placards near the train station, too. So the guy is just so ungrateful and we've seen this. A lot of these bombers, they come here on a lottery system or some immigration loophole. They get here. They're either receiving welfare, food stamps sometimes. They get freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom of expression, yet they hate this country so much they want to attack it. And CAIR is probably the worst P.R. that American Muslims could have. If I had a family member that came to another country, tried to set off a bomb, and then he got busted, literally, red-handed, I would apologize, hide, and then cooperate. But instead, they sent CAIR out to read a statement to undermine law enforcement and try to play the victim card? If they had set off a bomb in Bangladesh where they came from, I'm sure law enforcement would have been a little more aggressive.

GUTFELD: I was watching Rick Leventhal. I just look back, I didn't know, that the guy actually used Christmas lights in the making of the bomb.

WATTERS: War on Christmas. Sorry, I had to.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It's killing your system. You can't get it out.

WATTERS: The longest war.

GUTFELD: It's the longest war ever. All right. President Trump addressed terror attack today, and called again to eliminate the immigration policies that allowed this latest terrorist into our country. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Back now to the New York City subway attack. It once again put a spotlight on some of the dangerous immigration policies we have in place. President Trump addressed that earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: There are -- now been two terrorist attacks in New York City in recent weeks carried out by foreign nationals. Here on green cards. The first attacker came through the visa lottery, and the second through chain migration. We're going to end both of them. The lottery system and chain migration, we're going to end them fast. Congress must get involved immediately, and they are involved immediately, and I can tell you we have tremendous support. They will be ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: OK. So the earlier terrorist, I think last month, came here through the lottery, which is basically, you know, thrown into a wheel and up Iran, Iraq, Somalia, you're in. And then, you know, the recent one earlier this week came in through chain migration because his mom came and the uncle. Do you think this deserves to be looked at and reform?

PERINO: Yes, I do. I think that it's a smart, incremental step. I think it's not the ideal that we would love to have in America, but we don't live in a utopia. We live in a country and we have to protect ourselves. And it's actually in line with many of the other countries that are our allies. Australia, the U.K., Germany and Canada all have some sort of merit based system.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: And so, I think that it makes perfect sense to go to that. And what I could see happening is that you have today, Paul Ryan say that DACA, the dreamers, is not going to be in the end of your spending bill. They're going to push it to the next year. And it looked to me like Senator Schumer was acquiescing to that. So you can actually see in January, February, the president able, in the state of the union address, say that we are moving forward on a comprehensive immigration bill that will give him more border security, and some sort of a wall thing that he can call a wall, chain migration ending and going back to a merit-based system. And then, something to help the dreamers.

WATTERS: Democrats may say, Greg, that you've got to reunite families, and chain migration wants to keep families together. What would you say to that?

GUTFELD: This is how you do it because if chain migration is going one way, it should be able to go the other way. So we can pull the chain.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: If one link in that chain.

WATTERS: You're all out.

GUTFELD: You're all out. So imagine the amount of scrutiny among the family that has to increase when you're going like, gee, what's he doing? He's spending a lot of time in the basement. Can we check? He's made some new friends. So it causes everybody to act like everybody else. When you're a family, you should know in a community, you should know what's going on in your family. And the thing is -- two things matter for these families, family and religion, all right. We might not be able to shake certain people of their extremist religious ideology, but we can help them focus on the family and that's what this would do

WATTERS: That's a good point Greg made. What say you, Juan Williams?

WILLIAMS: I think.

GUILFOYLE: Juan, how could you ruin this good point?

WILLIAMS: I wouldn't attempt to. Because it's just so much fun. You know, you appeal to anger and frustration.

WATTERS: He made a good point about you're more vigilant when you know you can be in jeopardy if your cousin or your aunt....

WILLIAMS: Here's what's going on. President Trump is playing on fear of immigrants and demonizing immigrants right now, taking advantage of this terror attack.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: You know why I say that? Because in fact, there is no evidence. There's nothing on the table that would suggest that this guy, in fact, came over here intending to commit a terrorist act. He just came over here, and then he was radicalized while he was in the USA. We've seen...

GUILFOYLE: Potentially. We don't know this yet.

WILLIAMS: The police say it. Everybody says it.

PERINO: He traveled overseas back and forth.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: This investigation is not complete, Juan. Unless you can see into the future.

GUTFELD: Chain migration brought him here. Stop chain migration. Not a bad thing.

WILLIAMS: But that's crazy. Even The Baltimore Sun today...

GUTFELD: You like chain migration?

WILLIAMS: I think keeping families together, I think it's overwhelming.

GUTFELD: It's overrated. Families are overrated, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, families are -- I like them. I like them. Let's just say, 2005 to 2015, in a 10-year period, 9.3 million new immigrants. You know, overwhelmingly these people contribute to American society. These are great folks.

GUTFELD: You are smearing all immigrants. You're conflating -- you're conflating terrorist to all immigrants. I'm ashamed of you, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Here's what The Baltimore Sun said. The Baltimore Sun said -- this is an editorial, "Shame on the Trump administration for stoking..."

GUTFELD: Shame Baltimore.

WILLIAMS: "... fears and condemning millions of valuable contributing immigrants. Proud Americans."

GUTFELD: They're conflating. They're conflating terrorists with immigrants. We're not.

WATTERS: ... racist, Juan. So Kimberly, why is a merit-based system, in your opinion, something that we should look at more? You know, after this?

GUILFOYLE: Why wouldn't you? I mean, this is a situation where chain migration is what, based on what? We're just going to let everybody in? There's no accountability. There's no personal responsibility. There's no familial responsibility.

And then for him to say that "Oh, President Trump," trying to blame it on President Trump. He didn't go out and commit an act of terror. He didn't go out and do it. He's not somebody that -- but yet it's his fault somehow and he's demonizing people? He's talking about an actual act of terror that was committed by someone who came in this country through chain migration.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see. And he had so much to say, Kimberly...

GUILFOYLE: Good example.

WILLIAMS: So much to sayc about Las Vegas and Charlotte. I wonder what he said about -- oh, silence.

GUILFOYLE: So what does that have to do with chain migration?

WATTERS: Was the shooter an immigrant in Vegas?

GUILFOYLE: Las Vegas had nothing to do with it. It's completely nonsensical. They're completely different, disparate situations.

WATTERS: All right. A new bombshell on the anti-Trump dossier. A Fusion collusion story you're not going to want to miss. Up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Remember that senior DOJ official who was demoted last week for concealing his meetings with the people behind the anti-Trump dossier at Fusion GPS? Well, we have now learned that Bruce Ohr's wife, Nellie Ohr, worked for the opposition research firm that produced the document intended to derail President Trump's campaign.

In light of that, in other concerns, Jay Sekulow, a member of the president's legal team, is now calling for a second special counsel to investigate the investigators. He says the DOJ and the FBI cannot ignore obvious conflicts of interest.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions isn't opposed to the idea. He told FOX News today if cases aren't being reviewed as they need to be by the Justice Department, and the standards for a special counsel are met, a recommended counsel should be established.

Here is the press secretary on that subject.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's something that certainly causes a lot of concern, not just for the president and the administration but I think probably for all Americans and something that if we are going to continue to investigate things. Let's look at something where there's some real evidence and some real proof of wrongdoing. And this looks pretty bad, and I think it's something we should certainly look at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK, Greg, you liked that.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know, you've got to -- it's fairly obvious. You have to ask yourself, who's dirtier? Right, in this whole world? A political machine who's been at it for years, or some new guy with no history of such activity.

And so you're seeing, like, the Dems, they spent so much time chasing this Russia stuff, and it's all blowing back on the Clintons.

So Trump might've been a bull in a china shop, but the Clintons basically turned the china shop into a crackhouse. So no matter how they try, it always is going to blow back on the Clintons.

GUILFOYLE: OK, so Dana...

GUTFELD: Mixed metaphors there.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Police yourself. Thanks.

GUTFELD: I'm not done yet.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So Dana, do you think that communications on this are strong? That she's hitting the right, you know, messaging? This is a topic that's good for the president to try to get ahead...?

PERINO: I think her messaging is fine, but I think the underlying premise of it is something that they should be careful what they wish for, because the DOJ has an inspector general. The inspector general is an independent person. If they are unhappy with that inspector general, he can be fired. Or she, I don't know who it is at the moment.

A special counsel is supposed to go after criminal activity. They -- if the inspector general thinks that it should be deferred to a special counsel or to prosecution, that's usually how that should work.

And you have the situation where you have -- I think this is a response of a demand to do something. And I -- the wheels of justice turn very slowly, and I think one of the attempts is to try to bog everything down into investigations so that it's just so confusing that nobody knows what the heck is going on. And so that by the time there is a conclusion, nobody trusts it.

But I think they should be careful what they wish for. I think there's an inspector general. They should empower them. But if they're unhappy, they should look to the top of the DOJ. I mean, the DOJ is run by the attorney general, Jeff Sessions. If they're unhappy with how he's running his department, because he not utilizing all the powers of it, then maybe that's where they need to make a change.

GUILFOYLE: So Jesse, what about this? So Jeff Sessions, you know, there is a lot of focus and basically, you know, people saying what are you going to do about any of this?

WATTERS: He's under a lot of pressure to do something, and I think Dana's right. They're just trying to muddy the waters, because -- if they're worried about another indictment, then they have to raise a lot of suspicion over the prosecutorial team.

But you're right; it's so confusing. And we follow this for a living. Deputy inspector general, deputy attorney general, the FBI. You know, theses people on Mueller's team, THE special counsel. No one can keep up with it, regular people on the street. Nobody can even know any of these guys' names. It's so confusing.

But there are legitimate conflicts of interest here. Tucker mentioned it last week. I didn't even know this. Mueller hired one of the lawyers who represented the Hillary I.T. guy that smashed the Blackberry with hammers. He handpicked his whole team; a majority of them are Democratic donors.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WATTERS: No Republican donors.

GUILFOYLE: A lot of bias.

WATTERS: I know that's hard in Washington, D.C., but just to create the appearance of more integrity, I think, was important. So he's kind of planted a lot of these landmines himself.

And then you have Mueller. He's the mentor of James Comey. James Comey is the central figure in any obstruction case, and he's the one that got fired and then kind of handed it off to his former boss.

So -- and now you have the dossier. Could have been funded by Hillary and then used as a justification to spy on Trump. And then the point person, who was demoted to the H.R. job, he might've been the point person for the dossier.

So it's really confusing. The whole thing is conflicted. It's just swamp politics at its worst.

GUILFOYLE: You need to go do, like the swamp...

WATTERS: I need a chart. I need a chart.

GUILFOYLE: ... for Jeff Sessions to be able to figure it out.

GUTFELD: We need to call Glenn Beck. Where's his board?

GUILFOYLE: Where is he when we need him?

GUTFELD: He's back at my place.

GUILFOYLE: He's back at your house? He's working on diagrams?

GUTFELD: Yes, we're sharing a condo on the shore.

GUILFOYLE: OK, cool. All right. So Juan, ignore him and don't ignore Jesse. What do you think about this? He laid out quite a tangled web.

WILLIAMS: Yes, it's a conspiracy theory. I love them.

WATTERS: The vast right-wing conspiracy.

WILLIAMS: What's going on here? I mean, all of a sudden -- all of a sudden, people can't do their job because they donated to a Democrat? What if you donate to a Republican? That means you can't do your job. Nobody should investigate the president.

So Jay Sekulow, one of the president's lawyers, says, "Oh, this has nothing to do with Robert Mueller, nothing at all. I just want a second investigation." I'm thinking to myself, what is going on here? Ever since Flynn pled guilty, what we've seen from the White House and their legal -- and the president's legal team are efforts to call into question the integrity not only of the Mueller investigation but the FBI. Remember, the president himself said FBI in tatters, worst in history.

And of course, now going after an American company called Fusion GPS doing what everybody knows: they were initially hired by Republicans, then picked up by the Hillary campaign. Nobody is saying that this is the basis, Jesse, for the subsequent investigation.

WATTERS: I think Mueller is worried about his own team's own integrity, because he wouldn't have fired people or demoted them. He also hired the guy that partied with Hillary on election night?

WILLIAMS: What does this matter matter?

PERINO: She didn't party on election night.

WATTERS: Well, I mean, he was at the party. Very expensive party.

PERINO: Wasn't a party. Wasn't a party for her.

GUTFELD: He didn't make it, though.

WILLIAMS: But you know, this is what Trump does. Trump has now characterized this as a witch hunt. Now Trump also says, "This is too costly. Maybe you should just stop." I don't get it. I just -- why would anybody fall for this? Why would Jesse sit here and throw up all this dust? You say people are confused? You're confused.

WATTERS: Mueller throw up the dust, because he was the one who demoted these people, because there was conflict.

WILLIAMS: I would think you would be applauding him, because you say, OK, if there's an appearance and someone is concerned, like Caesar's wife, you've got to be beyond that, and I will eliminate you from this investigation. You should applaud him.

WATTERS: Here we go. Robert Mueller, everybody. Good job. (CLAPPING)

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, CNN faces scrutiny for alternative programming in the wake of the New York City terror attacks. We're going to explain all of it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Oh, my. Someone is going to have to come up with a better topic over at CNN. In the wake of the bombing in the Port Authority subway here in New York City yesterday, CNN offered an alternative discussion: President Trump and his alleged consumption of a dozen Diet Cokes per day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Cory's book is called "Let Trump Be Trump." Here's what he writes in that. "On Trump Force One, there were four major food groups: McDonald's, Kentucky Fried Chicken, pizza, and Diet Coke."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we're seeing, according to "The Times," that he drinks this many, what does this do to the brain and the body every day?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's replacing a liquid that he can't fake, which is water. You should be drinking water, not this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh.

WILLIAMS: "Kimberly's Food Court."

GUILFOYLE: Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't drink a lot of water. I think I'm doing fantastic. I don't know. I don't drink that much Diet Coke.

WATTERS: That's what I was going to ask you.

GUILFOYLE: You know, we all got -- we used to all like Diet Coke. We used to to have the Diet Cokes in the green room. Like, please, please. We'll be well behaved if you let us get, like, a six-pack of Diet Coke. Well, that didn't happen for, like, how many years, Dana?

PERINO: Five.

GUILFOYLE: Five years. So in the meantime, we all obviously went off of it, kind of cold turkey, so to speak.

PERINO: And we bought our own.

GUILFOYLE: Well, we used to share one, a little can. And we'd pour a little in a cup for each other. Because sometimes it gives you a little pick-me-up. And you know what? If it's working for him, I don't think we should freak out his system and not let him drink Diet Coke. He likes it.

WILLIAMS: All right. So two people on this panel...

GUILFOYLE: Kentucky Fried Chicken, I like it. McDonald's, I like it.

WILLIAMS: You like it all.

GUILFOYLE: Diet Coke, I like it.

WILLIAMS: Well, two people on this panel drink Diet Coke. You're one.

GUILFOYLE: Not a lot.

WILLIAMS: Greg Gutfeld's the other.

GUTFELD: Water. If you think water is great, look at a fish. The fish are the ugliest things on the planet.

GUILFOYLE: What the hell?

GUTFELD: By the way, this whole thing, it's not a diet thing. It's a class thing. You know, the enlightened groups, the enlightened people, they don't -- they don't drink sodas. Everything is organic and harvested tree bark. Made from just -- you ever see some of the juices that are sold? It looks like sewage. Raw sewage. So they'd rather spend, like, ten bucks on a carton of cashew milk milk and feel better.

By the way, fast food was created for salesman. You're on the road. This guy, Trump, is a salesman. He's on the road. The road's this guy. That's what you eat. Eating at McDonald's is not gross and it's not what, like, rubes eat. It's actually what normal people eat. Stop with the moral superiority. Diet Coke's fantastic.

WILLIAMS: Dana...

GUTFELD: I swim in it.

WILLIAMS: Dana stopped drinking it. But I wanted to ask you something else, Dana. So obviously, this -- yesterday was a big news day. They chose to focus on this story, which was in "the New York Times." It's part of "The New York Times..."

PERINO: Maybe they know their audience. Like we know our audience. We wouldn't do that.

GUTFELD: Easy. You can count them. There's Steve...

PERINO: Diet Coke for everyone.

GUTFELD: There's Steve. There's Joe.

WATTERS: The guy at the airport.

GUTFELD: The guy at the airport.

PERINO: But I think the reason that something like that is included in an article in the first place is because journalists love color. That's why the White House very year puts out the menu for the Thanksgiving day dinner or the meal at the White House or the state dinner. Because people love to read about that kind of thing.

But I have to say I stopped on September 8. This is of the hardest things I've ever done. But I haven't had one.

GUTFELD: You never did drugs.

PERINO: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Remember when they had President Obama having seven almonds. Now they've got Trump drinking 12 Diet Cokes.

WATTERS: That was a story?

PERINO: Seven almonds?

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think we did talk about it.

GUTFELD: We damned him. We said proof his birth certificate was fake. He eats almonds.

GUILFOYLE: He didn't do it.

PERINO: I don't think so. It's hard to eat seven almonds.

WILLIAMS: You drink regular Coke? Or do you drink soda?

WATTERS: I don't drink a lot of soda. I drink a lot of water. I think water is good for you.

PERINO: You drink all of those sugar sodas.

WATTERS: No, I just started this habit when I moved on the show, because there's nothing else to drink. So I have Sunkist or Dr. Pepper.

PERINO: Fanta.

WILLIAMS: There you go. Hey, what about grape soda?

WATTERS: I love grape soda.

WILLIAMS: Go, brother. Go, brother.

"One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Don't touch it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time for "One More Thing." And I'm up first, the annual tradition of "The Five" to pick our secret Santas. Gift reveal takes place on our Christmas day special. That's less than two weeks away, if you're counting at home. What is this little thing? Hold on, what's this? OK, Jesse, this is yours. Here's mine. Greg. Juan.

WATTERS: Can we open it now?

PERINO: Open it, but don't reveal. Don't reveal. Oh, and then there's another little one in here.

GUTFELD: This person isn't on the show anymore.

PERINO: I feel really bad that this is an extra one. I looked at it; it says Jasper.

GUILFOYLE: Are you serious?

GUTFELD: I'm kidding. No, I'm joking.

GUILFOYLE: Dana, did you get me, because you'll give me good gifts?

PERINO: I'm not going to reveal. I'm not revealing.

GUTFELD: I'm not. I'll keep it in my pocket.

GUILFOYLE: You did it? You got me?

PERINO: Also, I want to wish a very happy Hanukkah to all who celebrate. The holiday begins tonight.

Juan, you're up.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, Christmas time and time for caroling, time for toy soldiers and the nutcracker ballet. Now, at the Washington Ballet, they have a special moment, because guess who participates? The baseball team, the Washington Nationals, send the racing presidents out. It's a tradition since 2010.

Also making an appearance this year will be first baseman Ryan Zimmerman. It's the Washington Ballet's production of "Nutcracker," and it's set in 19th Century Georgetown with American historical figures sprinkled throughout. A little bit of Hamilton on the Potomac. A wonderful tradition. I suggest.

PERINO: Are you still mad about that bad call?

WILLIAMS: I'm hugely frustrated.

PERINO: OK. Greg's bored. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, let's go to mine, which is really good. You're asking me. See? Read the prompter.

OK. So this is to honor the four hero cops that took down the would-be suicide bomber at the Port Authority. Take a look at them, pictured left to right: Sean Gallagher, Drew Preston, Jack Collins and Anthony Manfredini. We want to thank them so much for their excellent training, their quick thinking that really helped them save lives, in being able to get the cell phone, et cetera away, because they thought that he was going to detonate something further, and jumping into action.

PERINO: While their colleagues went and investigated and interrogated family members.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

PERINO: It's what you've got to do. OK. Greg.

GUTFELD: Time for...

PERINO: Wow.

GUTFELD: I don't normally plug books.

GUILFOYLE: What was that?

GUTFELD: I only plug books that I actually read. I didn't read this book. But this guy, Elan Gale, he created "The Bachelor." Which is one of my favorite shows. I watch "The Bachelor" and "The Bachelorette." And then we got screwed when they moved "The Five" to 9 p.m., and I couldn't watch. So he wrote in anti-self-help book called "You're Not That Great." And I haven't read it, but I'm assuming if it's by the guy who did "The Bachelor," it's going to be great. So if you're a fan of "The Bachelor" or even if you're not, an anti-self-help book, "You're Not That Great."

WATTERS: I need that.

GUTFELD: You do! This is a gift.

WATTERS: I'll take that home.

GUILFOYLE: It won't put a dent in him.

WILLIAMS: It doesn't sound like you wanted to do it.

GUTFELD: Do what?

WILLIAMS: You didn't want to do it.

GUTFELD: Oh, I did. I did.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, OK.

GUTFELD: But I was...

WATTERS: That was an anti-plug.

GUILFOYLE: where were -- where was your graphic?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I was just having fun.

PERINO: OK. Jesse's next.

WATTERS: OK, so people make fun of the man flu.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: You know, guys get sick, they get the sniffles, and it totally incapacitates us. Apparently, the man flu is real. According to a new study in the British Medical Journal, there's physiological differences between men and women which make men more susceptible to colds and flus and stuff like that. So when we get sick, I don't want to hear about how weak we are or how we just have the sniffles. Our bodies are different. These things affect us differently. OK? Women are tougher when it comes to the flu.

PERINO: Will it make you whine more?

WILLIAMS: Ooh!

PERINO: I'm just curious.

WATTERS: They didn't have that in the study.

PERINO: OK. Maybe that will be round two, the new academic thing. All right, well, that's interesting. We won't make fun of you. Hopefully, nobody here gets sick.

GUILFOYLE: Minor injury in the bathroom, and you ended up in the hospital.

WATTERS: Come on.

PERINO: You've been pretty healthy. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next. Bret has special coverage of the election in Alabama.

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