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This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," May 22, 2019. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening, and welcome to “Tucker Carlson Tonight.” Things are moving fast. But think back if you still can to 10 years ago, what were Democrats saying about abortion at that time? A decade ago? Well, they said they believed in Roe versus Wade. They said that abortion was never preferable, but it ought to be legal for the first trimester of pregnancy.
They were not, they often told, as pro-abortion, they were pro-choice. And a lot of voters, by the way, I agreed with them. You might not like it. But according to the polls, that was a mainstream position. But that's not where Democratic leader are today.
The Party's new position is the more abortion, the better. Abortion must be available for any reason at all up until the moment of birth. As an op- ed in the "New York Times" this morning, put it quote, "Pregnancy kills, abortion and save lives." In other words, it's better to abort a pregnancy than to bring it to term. That's their view.
How many voters agree with that? Almost none. Most people find it disgusting. Just as most people according to polls, don't think taxpayers ought to be forced to pay for abortion. Democrats running for President don't care what the polls say, they are for it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you commit to abolishing the Hyde Amendment which hurts poor women and women of color?
JOE BIDEN, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, and by the way, ACLU member -- I got a near perfect voting record my entire career.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard you did, but I'm glad you just said you would commit to abolishing the Hyde Amendment.
BIDEN: No, no. Right now, it has to be -- it can't stay.
SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, D-N.Y., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will work to overturn the Hyde Amendment which makes it impossible for low-income women to get access to reproductive care, including abortion services.
SEN. CORY BOOKER, D-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have work to do. Until we get rid of the Hyde Amendment once and for all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: The Hyde Amendment. For more than 40 years, the Hyde Amendment has protected people of faith from being forced to pay for what they think is killing. Certainly Pete Buttigieg would understand that as a man of God. Buttigieg has spent the last few months accentuating his personal holiness.
Just the other day, he told us that the Lord strongly prefers him to Mike Pence. So where is St. Pete of South Bend on the question of abortion? Well, he's strongly for it. His position is that any restriction at all for any reason at all is unacceptable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, D-IND., MAYOR, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Most Americans believe that it should be up to the woman to make that choice. So by pursuing a radical, extreme agenda on the social issues, I think Republicans are doing this same thing that they've done when they've resisted a popular agenda on things like living wages or healthcare.
It's just one more example of the extremism of the moderate Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: So you want fewer abortions? According to holy man, Pete Buttigieg, that makes you crazy and possibly dangerous, certainly an extremist. Notice that Buttigieg has no problem at all with Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii.
Just yesterday, Hirono ghoulishly, bragged about brainwashing middle schoolers to support abortion. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MAZIE HIRONO, D-HI: I just left 60 eighth-graders from a public school In Hawaii, and I told them, I was coming to a rally in front of the Supreme Court, and they said, "Why?" And I said is because we have to fight for abortion rights, and they knew all about it. And I asked the girls of that group of eighth graders, "How many of you girls think that government should be telling us, women, when and if we want to have babies?" Not a single one of them raised their hands.
And then the boys who were there among the 60, I said, "You know, it's kind of hard for a woman to get pregnant without you guys." They got it. "How many of you boys think that the government should be telling girls and women when and if we're going to have babies?" And not a single one of them raised their hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Imagine saying something like that to someone else's kids. Senator Cory Booker can easily imagine it. Like Mazie Hirono, Booker has no children of his own. But he is fervently committed to abortion. So committed to it that if elected, Cory Booker has promised to create something called the White House Office of Reproductive Freedom.
The only point of the office would be to ensure that we have enough abortions in this country. Cory Booker believes that abortions are a vital strategic resource like oil or uranium.
It'll be interesting to know why Cory Booker believes that. Like most of the Democratic candidates, he refuses to come on the show, so we can't ask him directly. But we'd love to know what he makes, for example of the abortion rate in black America.
African-American women are five times as likely to get abortions as white women in the United States. What does Cory Booker, think of that? Is it something to celebrate? Should we be fighting to get the abortion rate even higher? What about sex selective abortions, they are common? Are they morally okay? Would it be all right to abort a pregnancy if you thought the child was going to grow up to be gay? Or short? Or prematurely bald?
Thanks to genetic testing, those may soon be real questions. Is there any abortion under any circumstances that's ever bad? Or even a little bad? Or are they all morally neutral? No matter what the cause or stage of pregnancy?
Those are the most basic questions about abortion. Nobody on the other channel ever asks them. That's a shame. The answers would be fascinating.
Mollie Hemingway is the senior editor at "The Federalist." And she joins us tonight. Mollie, thanks a lot for coming on.
MOLLIE HEMINGWAY, CONTRIBUTOR: Nice to be here.
CARLSON: So before you did come on, I looked at the polling on abortion and it's pretty much where it's been most of my life, which is probably a slight majority favor the rough framework of Roe v. Wade, nobody is for abortion in the eighth month -- elective abortion. Nobody is for sex selective abortions. Nobody is for a lot of this stuff. Most people aren't for public funding. So why are the candidates so far off where the public is?
HEMINGWAY: Well, it's a difficult situation for Democrats who are running for office because they are beholden to an abortion lobby that requires them to have increasingly extreme positions.
And so you're seeing this, just as you pointed out, 10 years ago, you might hear something like abortion should be safe, legal and rare. And now the approved position that Democrats have to take if they want to have a good chance of winning a primary is that it should, you know, abortions can take place, anytime, anywhere, and the taxpayers should fund it.
It is a radical shift from what we've seen, and it is far outside of the mainstream of American thought. But it is not far outside the mainstream of the media's thinking. And the media increasingly control our discourse. And of course, they have been overwhelmingly supportive of abortion going back decades.
David Shaw at the "Los Angeles Times" did a study of this in 1990, showing that something like 80 percent to 90 percent of people in the media supported abortion. And that is far outside of what the average American, you know, thinks on these issues.
But our newsrooms do not seem to care about matching American opinion or even reflecting it honestly. And you see that the same euphemisms that Democrats use as they're running for office, or the euphemisms used by the media.
You know, we say reproductive rights or whether women have the -- can decide about whether to have children, that's great, because we don't want to talk about what we're actually discussing here, which is whether or not it should be legal to end a human life after it has begun, you know, two months later, four months later, nine months later, and now you're even seeing the certain wings in the Democratic Party saying that even if a child survives abortion, she should be allowed to be left to die and not receive any protection. This is a radical shift in opinion.
CARLSON: Yes, I mean, nobody is for that. And I would say even people who describe themselves as pro-choice would acknowledge there's something sad about abortion, it is killing. Obviously, everyone knows that. That's not really up for debate.
Can Democrats running for office admit that that? That there's something sad, uncomfortable, depressing, and maybe even wrong about abortion?
HEMINGWAY: No, it's again, it's a difficult situation for them to be in because they're not allowed to have that position given how much support comes to them from Planned Parenthood, NARAL and other fairly radical abortion rights groups.
But what's sad about that is there are a lot of Democrats who are pro-life. There are a lot of people who -- Joe Biden himself used to be pro-life and did not have a voice in that party. It is not good for the party, but it's also not good for the general human rights cause of protecting life and protecting women and making sure that women with children are not, you know, treated as if they should be ending the lives of their children or not getting the support they need.
It's important that there be a caucus in both parties for this important -- this most important Civil Rights issue of our time.
CARLSON: Of course, if you devalue child bearing, you devalue women, I mean, by definition. All very amazing how quickly this is going. Mollie Hemingway, thank you very much for that perspective.
HEMINGWAY: Thank you.
CARLSON: Appreciate it. Alison Howard Centofante is Director of Strategic Communications at Live Action. She was a counter demonstrator yesterday at a pro-abortion rally in Washington. Centofante was carrying a sign that referred to the fact that the Reverend Jesse Jackson was conceived through rape. Centofante soon got attacked for that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISON HOWARD CENTOFANTE, DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, LIVE ACTION: You can check that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're wrong. You're wrong and you're wrong gender to be wrong.
CENTOFANTE: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, pro-life Barbie walk [bleep] away. We're done. Goodbye.
CENTOFANTE: What about Reverend Jesse Jackson?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is alive and what the [bleep] --
CENTOFANTE: They made a choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a [bleep] choice. It's [bleep] ancient history.
CENTOFANTE: So she should have had the choice to kill him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: [Bleep] you. [Bleep] you.
CENTOFANTE: Let's talk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Alison Howard Centofante joins us tonight. Alison, that was quite a scene we just played. You've been doing this a while. Has the reaction changed to you?
CENTOFANTE: Absolutely. I mean, there's an increased aggression from pro- abortion people. That was within five minutes, Tucker of being at this rally. My sign did talk about Reverend Jesse Jackson being conceived in rape.
I did want to present that and say, "Look, he was conceived in rape. Would we tell him he shouldn't be here right now?" No, we value all lives.
The other side of the sign though said "Love them both." And that was a really winsome message. There were even some pro-abortion women who came over had nice things to say about that. And my shirt said, "Women's rights begin in the womb," because they do. And so I got a couple of interesting conversations and interactions that you just shared.
CARLSON: It's interesting though, why the emotion? Why this among all the issues and there are a lot of people who say it's a life or death issue? And of course it is. But there are others -- healthcare among them, or people don't get this upset. Why does the pro-choice side feel this outrage? What is it about?
CENTOFANTE: Right. Well, this is unlike any other procedure and Planned Parenthood and NARAL and others say that abortion is just like removing a tooth. It's just like removing a tumor.
Well, people don't yell at each other over an appendicitis removal, right? It's different.
CARLSON: Good point.
CENTOFANTE: There is a life on the line here and that's why it's emotional on both sides. But it's the pro-life movement that is saying, look, there's a life there that's lost. We welcome you. This woman, this poor woman, we want her to come and get healing and not be so angry. But instead she has to double down.
And the sad part is she was probably lied to, Tucker. She was really lied to her about her options. She was probably lied to about the so-called need for this. She thinks abortion is empowering for women. It's not. That's what Live Action has been educating on. And we're now training people through an Ambassador's Program to get involved, to share a message because that's how you change hearts and minds. You step into the fray.
And that's what I did yesterday, just showing up with a sign to start a conversation, but we need to have it. We can't just yell at each other and the pro-life movement is going to remain peaceful and loving and non- violent until we see this thing through to the end.
CARLSON: Do you think the other side will remain peaceful? It doesn't look that way?
CENTOFANTE: No, I mean, you saw Representative Sims a couple of weeks ago attack pro-life sidewalk counselors, Live Action and other leaders who went up to Philadelphia to say "Knock it off. Resign. Stop bullying us."
This increased hostility is concerning. But look, violence begets violence. Abortion is a violent act in and of its nature. It dismembers a child in the womb. It hurts a woman physically, emotionally. And so we need to stop the violence.
Mollie did a great job talking about this being a Human Rights issue. The question I had yesterday for this woman and for the presidential candidates, Bernie Sanders and Amy Klobuchar that was there was, "Will you draw line anywhere? When do you acknowledge human life?" So far, they haven't answered that. I hope they will soon.
But most Americans do not support abortion through all nine months like they do. They understand maybe at a heartbeat, maybe at pain capable at 20 weeks, but they're not like this. And that's a good thing. We're going to continue educating so that that momentum continues.
CARLSON: They don't want to have a conversation that includes specifics, because they're horrifying when you get specific. Alison, thank you very much. Great to see you.
CENTOFANTE: Thanks for having me.
CARLSON: Well, the creepy porn lawyer was obviously exploiting Stormy Daniels from day one. Now he is charged with that criminally. We'll bring you the very latest from CPL's life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, for a lot of calendar year 2018, the creepy porn lawyer was a bonafide star on cable news. CNN had him on so often he brought a covered dish to the company picnic. Over on MSNBC, familiarity bred enchantment. They were starting to worship the guy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's a beast.
EDDIE GLAUDE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: He's a beast. He keeps popping Donald Trump and all of his folks in the mouth. Jon Meacham says he may be the savior of the Republic.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I owe Michael Avenatti an apology. For the last couple of weeks, I've been saying "Enough already, Michael. I've seen you everywhere." What have you left to say? I was wrong brother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Sincere question. How dumb would you have to be to find the creepy porn lawyer impressive? He was such a transparent fraud such a total con, in it only for himself. There was no question about that ever.
We told him so directly the night he came to visit us on the show. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: You've profited from Stormy Daniels. You've done tens of millions of dollars with a free media on the basis of your relationship with her and she's working in strip clubs. You're exploiting her and you know that. Why aren't you paying her some of what you're making?
MICHAEL AVENATTI, LAWYER: Sir, this is absurd.
CARLSON: But answer my question. Why are you rich? And your client is working in seedy strip clubs?
AVENATTI: Sir, do you have any idea how much money I've earned --
CARLSON: You're on every cable show. You're running for President now?
AVENATTI: You have no idea. You have no idea.
CARLSON: Well, I know that you haven't paid your taxes. Like so many lawyers, you are taking advantage of her and you pose as a feminist hero because you are shameless and the other channels let you get away with it. But you're an exploiter of a woman and you should be ashamed of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: We hate to brag. Almost never do, but tonight we're going to make a rare exception. We were right about him. Today, the creepy porn lawyer was indicted on a new set of criminal charges. They allege that he defrauded, yes, Stormy Daniels. It turns out he was not a feminist hero.
According to the indictment, CPL forged her signature on a letter and then used it to steal her book advance. He blew that on hotels, restaurants, and things like that.
All the while, Stormy Daniels worked in strip clubs to pay her bills, the creepy porn lawyer lived luxuriously on her misfortune. Is anyone outside of cable news surprised by this?
Melissa Francis cohosts "Outnumbered" on this network. She's a friend of ours. And she joins us tonight. Melissa, I know you are not surprised by this. But like the whole primetime lineup in a bunch of other channels must have their jaws open. They wanted him to be President.
MELISSA FRANCIS, HOST: Yes, they were very excited about him. And you ran through the details very well, especially looking back at that interview and what you said in him saying, "Oh, no, I wasn't exploiting her."
It turns out, right that he was forging her name to divert funds that were coming to her for her book deal, and putting them in his account. And he says, in his defense, he was tweeting today, basically, "I was owed that because I was his lawyer."
And then you say, "Well, then why did you have to forge her name? And then why then, did you tell her according to the criminal indictment from the Southern District, why did you tell her that the publisher refused to pay?" He is lying to her. He is lying to everyone to divert the money, but his defense, I was owed it."
And that's just one of the small things. I mean, when you look through the whole thing with Nike, he extorted Nike, he waited until earnings period. This is all alleged, and according to what the Southern District is saying the Feds are saying, but they claim that he waited until Nike's earnings period when they would be most vulnerable.
And then he said, "You have done wrong. And I am going to have a press conference, if you don't hire me right now to audit your company for $20 million. And I'll be your internal counsel to audit your company and see," or the caveat was, "You can just give me $22 million, and I'll be quiet and go away."
Now, this is all in the paperwork that came out today that we read, and he is tweeting back in his defense, I will be exonerated. I was owed this money and all of these different cases. All told, he could go to jail for 404 years. And in my book, it's really not enough for everything that he did.
I mean, he also had bank fraud, wire fraud. He filed for bankruptcy. He lied in that proceeding -- all alleged, again, alleged, but this is a lot of piling on in California, in New York, all over the place. And it kind of hits on two themes that our viewers love here.
Number one, is hypocrisy. And that's what you really put out there when you had that interview with him where he is standing there holier than thou, filled with sanctimony saying, "This person broke the law. This person is immoral. I'm standing up for what's right and the law and this and that." And here, he according to these officials and these law enforcement officers, he is one of the biggest criminals and predators out there according to what they're saying.
The other thing that I think is really interesting that your viewers love is the irony because you've got to think that he was doing this for a long time and when there are many clients he is accused of defrauding and he spent the money on Ferraris they say, and on a private plane, they say.
So he was living the lifestyle and defrauding people who were being paid for legitimate things. But he didn't get caught until he went all over television.
CARLSON: That's true.
FRANCIS: Until he was drunk on his own fame and he had people like Stephanie Ruhle over there at MSNBC, celebrating him. Right? I mean, until he had people -- he might have gotten away with it.
CARLSON: But where is the judgment? It was so obvious. Look, I actually feel sorry for him at this stage. I mean, there's clearly something wrong with him, I don't know. I don't want to speculate, but there's clearly something wrong. There always has been something wrong with the guy.
And any person who spent two minutes with him would know that and yet somehow they didn't know that, these purveyors of facts.
FRANCIS: Well, you know why because they were doing the work that they wanted done. He was out there doing the works.
CARLSON: No, it's exactly right.
FRANCIS: He mocked with someone to go after Brett Kavanaugh, I mean, he always had ...
CARLSON: That's exactly right.
FRANCIS: ... Stormy Daniels to go after the President. I mean, he was doing the bidding of what the other networks wanted, I guess.
CARLSON: Of course.
FRANCIS: So they looked past it.
CARLSON: He is doing the work of the Democratic Party, of course, he has.
FRANCIS: I just think it's interesting that had he not gotten drunk on his own fame, he might have gotten away with it.
CARLSON: Yes. It's almost like a "Scooby Doo" episode. If it weren't for you kids.
FRANCIS: If it weren't for those damn kids, right.
CARLSON: And your dog.
FRANCIS: Right, all of that stuff.
CARLSON: Melissa Francis. Great to see you tonight.
FRANCIS: Great to see you, too.
CARLSON: Thank you. Well, Democrats are in the middle of a not very well covered, but absolutely real Civil War. It's not about policy or fixing the country's problems, it's about impeachment. Will they or won't they? They can't decide. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, for years, the Democrats promised their voters that a thorough investigation would uncover a plot by Donald Trump to sell this country to Vladimir Putin and Russia. Well, it didn't happen. They didn't find that. But instead of moving on or maybe working with Trump to help the country improve, they've adopted a new line, the President committed a cover-up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI, D-CALIF.: We believe that no one is above the law, including the President of the United States. And we believe that the President of the United States is engaged in a cover-up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She keeps coming back to the things like accountability, and that there's a cover up. And those are the two essential issues that -- let's keep following where the evidence leads us.
REP. MARK POCAN, D-WIS.: It's starting to look more like a cover up in that he doesn't let anyone come and testify before Congress. Innocent people don't act like the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: What exactly did the President cover up? Nobody knows. What should we do about it? Democrats can't agree on that either. Critically, Nancy Pelosi is struggling to keep control of Democrats in the House, but more radical elements in her party, say impeachment is the only option. Who will win this battle?
Luis Miranda is a former DNC Communications Director and he joins us today. Luis, thanks a lot for coming on.
LUIS MIRANDA, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thanks, Tucker.
CARLSON: Should the President be impeached?
MIRANDA: I think that the House should definitely move forward on impeachment proceedings because the Mueller report showed very clearly that he had done exactly the kind of obstruction of justice that you saw laid out in the Articles of Impeachment for Richard Nixon.
And now, as we see what he's doing to keep Congress from carrying out its investigation, forcing even private citizens who no longer work for the government to not be able to come in and testify.
CARLSON: It's a cover-up.
MIRANDA: It just shows exactly what it said on Article 3 of the Articles of Impeachment against Richard Nixon.
CARLSON: Okay. Okay. So why isn't the Speaker of the House, the much venerated Nancy Pelosi, why isn't she -- if it's so obvious, why isn't she behind this?
MIRANDA: I think she is working with her caucus to bring them together and work, not just on things like what you need to do on impeachment, which I think some of the investigations are going to help with that, especially as I just said, the investigations that are now calling on subpoenas of former administration officials, and Donald Trump is stepping in and not letting them. That's an example of an impeachable offense.
And so I think that she is trying to bring everyone on the same page and move it forward in a constructive way. But I do think the Democrats --
CARLSON: But she is not for --
MIRANDA: But, Tucker, I think Democrats here have made a mistake.
CARLSON: She is not for impeachment. She said that. Okay, you think they made a mistake? I am just -- look, Nancy Pelosi, whatever you think of her.
MIRANDA: I think they made a mistake.
CARLSON: She is a very sophisticated person who has been in Washington for, you know, an awfully long time.
MIRANDA: Incredible operator, and she has done a terrific job with our caucus.
CARLSON: Okay.
MIRANDA: However, I think the Democrats made a mistake in slow-walking this.
CARLSON: But hold on. She doesn't want impeachment. Okay, but she slow walked it, because she knows it will hurt the Democratic Party. You disagree with that?
MIRANDA: I do disagree. I think that, you know, they're comparing this to the impeachment -- what happened in the 90s with Bill Clinton, but at that time, you have Republicans investigating Socks the cat, Tucker. You remember this?
Socks, the cat was being investigated over the kinds of letters he was getting from children around the country, Tucker. That's why the American people rejected impeachment.
CARLSON: No, that's actually not --
MIRANDA: I think at this point, as you start to see ...
CARLSON: I was there. I covered that whole thing.
MIRANDA: ... what's actually coming out, the Deutsche Bank situation where a court ruled just yesterday that, in fact, the Congress does have oversight, does have the right to investigate.
I think all of these things will continue to show that the pattern of obstruction of justice, of behavior that is just not consistent with the oath that the President took is important, because at the end of the day, Tucker, the Republican Party is a party of the rule of law.
And if we skirt it, if we flout it, if we treat it like it doesn't matter, we might as well be a third world country at this point, Tucker, and that's just not what we should be.
CARLSON: Right, then we will have like sanctuary cities where people like ignore Federal immigration law. That would be crazy.
MIRANDA: Even the rule of law then, we should definitely protect our democracy. Absolutely.
CARLSON: Okay. Right. Well, I've heard there for three years from people who have zero interest in democracy at all, who spent the whole time the last two years trying to undo an election result because they hate democracy so much.
So look, there are a lot of things you say about Trump, but don't cast opposition to Trump as a defensive democracy, he is not actually. Trump is what you get in a democracy and you guys hate that.
MIRANDA: Well, you know what, in 2018 and Democrats won the House of Representatives in part because this country recognizes that sometimes, divided government is better. You have a government that keeps checks and balances together.
CARLSON: Yes. I think people do want that, but if you don't want impeachment --
MIRANDA: And if you're not going to have that, if you're going to have control of the House of Representatives and not actually conduct and carry out your constitutional duty of oversight and holding President Trump accountable when you see example of example of him disrespecting what Congress was intended to do.
CARLSON: We just had two and a half years of Russia investigation.
MIRANDA: I think that you just undermined our democracy. And the Mueller report shows that there was clear obstruction of justice.
CARLSON: Then good luck with that. Look, I'm not -- all right, all right. I am not going to get mad about it. I do think you're going to do -- whoever the candidate is to a loss if you impeach, but you obviously disagree in, we'll find out.
MIRANDA: You know what, I remember 2010 when so many Democrats shied away from defending the Affordable Care Act, because they were afraid that Democrats would criticize them on it. Well, the excuse me, Republicans would criticize them on it.
Republicans are going to criticize you for impeachment whether you do it or not, you might as well live up to what the forefathers put in the Constitution for you to do in Congress which is to have oversight over the Executive Branch.
CARLSON: All right. Luis, good luck with that. Great to see you tonight.
MIRANDA: Thanks, Tucker. Good to see you, too.
CARLSON: Well, thanks to Nancy Pelosi, the phrase "cover up" dominated cable news today. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy Pelosi describes President Trump as being engaged in a cover up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the things that she said is that the Trump administration is engaged in a cover up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said President Trump is engaged in a cover up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Comments Pelosi had made this morning that the President had engaged in a cover up.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: She accused the President of engaging in a cover up.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: The President complaining to the Speaker of the House that she accused him of a cover up.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That phrase "cover up" from Nancy Pelosi really set him off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Over at MSNBC, one anchor accused the President of a cover up for refusing to publicize his private life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you talk about "I don't do cover ups" is also the fact that he has been refusing to let his current and former aids testify, refusing to turn over documents that have been demanded, including the tax returns. Also refusing to grant an interview to Robert Mueller.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Joe Concha watches an awful lot of television, he writes about media for "The Hill," and he joins us tonight. Joe, is it my imagination? Or did once again the Speaker of the House, deliver the talking point that everyone in cable news eagerly took up and repeated?
JOE CONCHA, MEDIA REPORTER, "THE HILL": I think you're seeing a pattern here, Tucker. I remember back in January, the term "manufactured crisis" was used to talk about what was going on at the U.S. southern border. And then you heard over and over dozens upon dozens of times, and not just from one network, but different networks, different anchors, or pundits, or guests using that same exact term to the word, "manufactured crisis."
Now, sure enough, as we know, and even the "New York Times" admits, it's no longer a manufactured crisis at the border. That's a real thing. Story for another time.
And then we had that the other crisis, which was the "constitutional crisis," and that was two weeks ago, when Bill Barr after he testified in front of the Senate decided not to do so with the House when they changed the rules around as far as staffers being able to question him, which had never happened in Congress before, and he said, "This is going to be a circus. No, thanks. I'm not going to show up." So that became a constitutional crisis.
And Pelosi says that as well, and sure enough, the Media Research Center -- and I get their conservative -- but the numbers here are usually accurate. They found that between May 8th and May 12th that on ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC that that exact term, "constitutional crisis" was uttered 386 times.
I'm not very good at Math, but I'm pretty sure that's more than 70 times if you average it out per network. So yes, it goes out one mouth, it comes out another mouth. And now here we are with cover up and that will be the next new constitutional crisis as far as terms that we hear over and over again, as if it's an echo chamber.
CARLSON: We're entering campaign season, there's a presidential campaign in progress already. At some point, these are campaign finance violations. These are television networks donating to presidential campaigns, to a party and not declaring it.
CONCHA: That would be very interesting to see that case being made perhaps, but now it just seems to be that people are taking their cues from one party in this business and not the other particularly from Pelosi and look, I wanted to hear some reporters yell at her the way that Trump is yelled at, "What cover up are you specifically talking about? Who is involved in this cover up? Is Bob Mueller involved in this cover up?" Because he has been reluctant to testify to this point.
CARLSON: Yes.
CONCHA: So is he also part of the cover up that now includes I believe, Bill Barr, Don McGahn, Kato Kaelin, the White House chef -- I mean, who else is involved in this deep conspiracy of people who otherwise probably don't like the President that much but are willing to put their careers on the line to cover up for him? It's, it's quite comical on some level, actually.
CARLSON: It is kind of amazing. I hope we get to the bottom of it. Another Russian is there somewhere. Joe, thank you.
CONCHA: Good to see you.
CARLSON: Kamala Harris says that if she is elected President, her administration will fine companies unless they pay men and women exactly the same wage. And yet her own campaign pays men more than women. Irony alert. Details ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Senator Kamala Harris is running for President on the woke capitalism platform. The Harris administration, she says won't simply support equal pay for women and men, they will compel it.
Every big company will be forced to file paperwork proving that it pays men and women the same amount and that all the differences in pay are based on seniority or ability where they will be fined a lot.
There's just one problem with Harris's idea. Even she can't follow it. According to "The Washington Free Beacon," both Harris's Senate office and her presidential campaign pay men more than women and they have for quite some time.
Marjorie Clifton is a feminist and CEO of Clifton Consulting and she joins us tonight. Marjorie, thanks a lot for coming on.
MARJORIE CLIFTON, CEO, CLIFTON CONSULTING: Thanks for having me.
CARLSON: So this is one of those kind of irresistible irony stories. It seems to me that if you're proposing fining other people for committing what you say is a crime, you probably shouldn't be committing it yourself, and yet she is.
CLIFTON: Yes, but one of the problems is, in the article, the reporter actually states that he doesn't know the jobs that men versus women are holding. So the challenge that we've got is we actually can't compare apples to apples, and the policies that she is pushing have to do with equal pay for equal work.
So not we just pay women more because they're women, it's we pay them in the exact same job as a man the same amount as a male counterpart. So the whole premise.
CARLSON: Right? Except the problem is she has been lying about what the pay gap is, because when you adjust for education, time spent on the job and job description, that gap disappears, as you know, so she is arguing on the campaign trail an apples to oranges, and then when busted herself, she is hiding behind that same excuse, it doesn't really work, does it?
CLIFTON: Well, no, the reporter was the one who is acknowledging that he didn't have data about what men versus women were doing, the hours they were working. So the data that he had was just based on the number of men to women. There was a 95 percent -- women were paid $0.95 to the dollar of the men.
But I'll tell you, Tucker, working on campaigns and you know this, there are more men in senior level.
CARLSON: Ninety four.
CLIFTON: All right, well, I was giving you credit for you know, being young, but you know, it's -- there's been, right now. I mean, we still have gaps in the number of women in senior roles. I mean, campaign managers. I know a lot of the Democratic candidates have been looking for women to run their campaigns, and there just aren't as many qualified and the point she's making is not, we just pay them because they're women.
CARLSON: Well, wait a second. Wait a second, no, Kamala Harris, this is her office, not just her campaign, but her office and her campaign, going back at least a year, two six-month periods. She can't find in a country of 335 million people, she can't find women qualified enough to occupy senior positions in her office and her campaign? I just don't buy it.
CLIFTON: That's not what I said. I have no -- that's not what I said. We don't know because the reporter himself did not know what the profile of the workers in her office were men to women.
CARLSON: Okay, but you're willing to give us -- so what would be an explanation that doesn't make Kamala Harris look like a craven hypocrite?
CLIFTON: That the upper ranks in her office, she may have two more men than she has to one woman in a senior level and that the women that are working in her office, I mean, that's enough explanation right there. If you've got two senior men and one senior woman, that's already going to offset the balance.
CARLSON: But why wouldn't she fix that?
CLIFTON: Because they're the best person for the job.
CARLSON: Hold on, but if you're saying you're going to punish other people for not empowering women, why aren't you doing it yourself? I'm serious, like how in the world can she lecture the rest --
CLIFTON: But that's the point of her policy.
CARLSON: Of course, it is. She is lecturing the rest of us about female empowerment and it's so important to vote for her because she is a woman. She said that repeatedly. And yet she can't even empower them in her own office. I mean, I'm not going to take her seriously, Marjorie, unless she gets better on this.
CLIFTON: That's fine. You're not going vote for anyway, Tucker. But I would just tell you this.
CARLSON: She is appalling.
CLIFTON: What's important --
CARLSON: She is a ridiculous person. Oh my gosh.
CLIFTON: Well, what I would I would just say that's important about all of this, because it does negate the whole equal pay conversation if you don't look at it equally, in terms of education and the job that you're holding. And that's what she's trying to address. That's what the entire debate is about.
Now, I'll tell you, women also have the same biases that men have or the same bias that men have. And that's why you see a lot of blind hiring. People covering up the name of the candidate, when they're hiring to make sure that they're hiring the most qualified person and they're not letting their own personal bias sway that.
CARLSON: Can I ask you a super quick, sincere question, just as a person?
CLIFTON: Sure.
CARLSON: And you answer it however you want?
CLIFTON: Yes.
CARLSON: Having been in the workforce for a while, on average, who do you think treats female employees better and more decently with greater kindness? Male bosses or female bosses? Honestly? Who treats women better?
CLIFTON: Well, I would say I have seen that -- I have seen it equally. I have seen women who've treated other women badly. I've seen men who have treated women badly. I've been very fortunate to see it pretty equitable in terms of that.
CARLSON: Okay.
CLIFTON: But I think the greater need that, you know, the workplace is trying to address is like, how do you teach women to negotiate? How do you teach women? And how do you train men to be able to work with women in a way that's comfortable?
I mean, the reality is, we are operating in a workforce that was built by men. That's just history, Tucker. And so a lot of these kinds of policies are trying to advance and move things along.
I mean, in 1975 --
CARLSON: We've been working on this for 50 years. All right, they're telling me I've got to stop and this is not --
CLIFTON: Well, I know, but 1975, my mother couldn't own a bank account or have a credit card, so we've got to move these things along.
CARLSON: Not in this country. I'm afraid that's not. I was here in '75. I don't think that's true.
CLIFTON: You've got daughters, Tucker.
CARLSON: Marjorie, great to see you.
CLIFTON: You've got daughters. All right, thanks.
CARLSON: Thanks so much. For yours, ESPN lectures viewers about politics and then was shocked when millions of them stopped watching the channel. Has ESPN learned its lesson? Jason Whitlock on that after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: For decades, ESPN was one of those powerful brands in the United States, but it has been in decline for some years now. ESPN has lost millions of subscribers. Revenue has fallen sharply. The network had to lay off more than a hundred employees.
Network executives appeared confused, but sports fans knew part of the reason. ESPN had become unbearably political propaganda a lot of the time, not a sports channel.
In 2017 commentator Jamal Hill tweeted this, "Donald Trump is a white supremacist who has largely surrounded himself with other white supremacists." Okay, talking heads on sports shows routinely bashed Trump and anyone who didn't share their disdain for him. Here's one example.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must respect the office therefore that confers respect to the occupant. Tiger, is that what you're saying? If that's what you're saying? That is a stupid comment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was classless on the part of the President of the United States. I don't give a damn that, you know, they're talking about White House employees on furlough because of the whole border security issue with the Democrats.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Well, finally, the company seems aware that politics may be part of the reason for its decline. Bombarding viewers with left-wing polemics is not the reason that people tune in to a sports channel.
In a new "LA Times" profile, the President of ESPN, the incoming, Jimmy Pitaro, said he steered the company's commenters away from divisive political topics and back to sports. Will that work?
Jason Whitlock is a host on Fox Sports One, better known as FS1 on cable or satellite, and he joins us now. Jason, thanks a lot for coming on.
JASON WHITLOCK, HOST, FOX SPORTS ONE: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: So, it sounds like the new guy understands that most people tuning into a Sports Network don't want politics.
WHITLOCK: Yes. I think Jim Pitaro is doing the absolute right thing. I think he is backed by Bob Iger, the head of Disney. I think they have figured out that too many of their employees were addicted to social media and Twitter and they laced their comments on air and over social media to be pleasing to Twitter, rather than to sports fans.
And so the quickest, easiest way to build up your social media traction is to attack their President. And that's why so many of their commenters got into the habit of attacking the President because it was good for their social media brand. And I think that Bob Iger and James Pitaro have figured out your social media brand doesn't help our television ratings, our television network or the perception of our television network, and the satisfaction of sports fans, and they've told their employees to cut it out. I think it's smart.
CARLSON: Yes, Twitter doesn't actually generate revenue for its users. It sounds like most people seem to have forgotten. But you think that says that ESPN's move toward politics was driven by its on-air talent and not by the executives?
WHITLOCK: Oh, absolutely, by the on-air talent, but the executives in some way, too, because I'm just telling you, social media had everyone fooled.
If your Twitter following was up, that meant, "Oh my god, you're resonating with sports fans." And what they have figured out is like, "No, you're resonating with political people, hard left-wing people," and that elevates your Twitter following. It does not please sports fans.
CARLSON: That's such an obvious point. I still think to this day, you're the only person I've heard make that point. Why did it take -- I don't know? A decade for them to figure that out?
WHITLOCK: Well, listen, because executives operate at a level 30,000 feet in the air, and agents, you've got to remember, all of these media people, journalists used to not be represented by agents. Well, most of them -- I am not -- but most of them are now. They're represented by agents. And agents like to go in and argue with executives and TV networks, "Look how well my employee is doing. Look at his Twitter following. Look at her IG following. My god, you must pay them more."
And ESPN -- I am telling you, they used to have those conversations and used to pay people based off their social media following and it took them years to figure out that's a whole different group, a whole different audience than sports fans.
CARLSON: That's the smartest explanation I've heard for a very confusing phenomena. Jason Whitlock, thank you very much for that. Good to see you.
WHITLOCK: Thank you, Tucker.
CARLSON: Big news tonight. Finally, after many decades, the Pentagon has officially confirmed what has long been obvious. They are in fact and have long been in fact investigating UFO sightings.
In a statement given to "The New York Post," the Department of Defense said that it continues to look into reports of quote, "unidentified aerial phenomena." What might the Pentagon find during its investigations? To find out more, we dispatched Fox's Brett Larson to a UFO fair to find out more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRETT LARSON, HEADLINES 24/7 ANCHOR (voice over):" It's an annual gathering with an out of this world origin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody says they've seen something. I'm waiting for my closeup.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARSON (voice over): This is the Pine Bush, New York UFO Fair, which brings people from far and wide to share costumes, UFO-themed snacks, and stories of sightings.
It's not just good for conspiracy theorists, it's good for business.
He's not the only one who was happy to share a sighting story. In fact, there were dozens of folks happy to stop and talk to us about the unusual things they've seen in the night skies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a believer that we came from space.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's so funny is that I coordinate this and I'm the town skeptic, but that makes it an interesting conversation, but I never say that I don't believe, I say that I just haven't seen it yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I plead the Fifth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARSON (voice over): And this guy, Travis Walton. He was allegedly abducted by a UFO back in 1975 while he was a Forestry worker in Arizona. He disappeared for five days and even inspired the 1993 film, "Fire In The Sky."
("FIRE IN THE SKY" MOVIE SCENE PLAYS.)
LARSON (voice over): We asked Walton if he has seen anything since and he has?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS WALTON, ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS: That was February 19, 2014. A giant black triangle came over, stopped right over the top of us, rotated 90 degrees and then shot off towards the ocean. And it was quite amazing because I didn't believe anything that big could actually fly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LARSON (voice over): As for why he feels we're hearing more about UFO sightings. It's not a coincidence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTON: I think it's more acceptable for people to report it. I kind of suspect that sightings aren't really accidental. I think they're trying to get us ready and that's part of what I'm doing here is trying to make us ready.
And I think the reason it's not open contact is because we're not ready.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LARSON (on camera): Despite shutting down the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program five years ago, the Department of Defense isn't turning a blind eye to the skies.
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