Trump making dramatic pivot to general election campaign?
'The Five' break down Donald Trump's campaign shakeup
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 20, 2016. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld, it is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Some breaking news today in the presidential race, Donald Trump has fired a campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, less than a month before the Republican National Convention. Campaign sources tell Fox News it was an ongoing power struggle between Lewandowski and Trump's convention manager, Paul Manafort. The presumptive GOP nominee's children may have played a role in the shake up; Manafort now takes over as campaign manager. In a statement, the Trump campaign said he was grateful to Corey for his hard work and wishes him the best. Lewandowski had some nice departing words as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Why were you fired?
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I don't know. I don't, I don't know the answer to that. But what I know is what we have been able to achieve in this election cycle has been historic. I'm proud to be a small part of that. Things change as a campaign evolves and a general election campaign against a very well funded giant organization like the Clinton campaign is very different than running against those smaller primary state elections. I had a nice conversation with Mr. Trump and I said to him, it's been an honor and privilege to be part of this. Look, I wouldn't change one second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Trump addresses the firing of Lewandowski, tonight, on the "O'Reilly Factor," and we have the first look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESUMPTIVE GOP NOMINEE: I think Corey is terrific. I watched him before. He was terrific toward me, said I was a talented person, and he's a talented person. He's a good guy. He's a friend of mine. But I think it's time now for a different kind of campaign. With Corey, I'm really proud of him, he did a great job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: OK, so that's the important breaking news, we were able to see the rest of that interview tonight on the "O'Reilly Factor" at 8:00 p.m. eastern. So Eric, this comes as a surprise. There was a little bit of reports earlier on, that there was some tension in terms of campaign direction between Paul Manafort, who was brought into the campaign subsequent to, you know, Corey being in charge and, you know, getting Trump in the direction that he was going.
ERIC BOLING, CO-HOST: Yes, so we will set it up a little bit, the whole case was the communications director Sean and Corey Lewandowski were pretty much pretty much the inner circle to Donald Trump. There's Michael Cohen, who was one of his attorneys, as well. Remember when there's a whole delegate issue going on, they're worried that their winning, the Trump campaign was winning the elections, but they were -- some of the delegates were jumping ship after they would win a state or when delegates in a state they would move. So they brought in Paul Manafort to stop that bleeding, that slide. He came in. And the way I understand it now is that there was some back and forth between Corey and Manafort. And Manafort, the way that we are hearing or I've heard is that, Manafort approached Ivanka and Jared, Donald's daughter and son-in-law, and Donald Jr., and Eric said look, it's me or him, because we are not getting along, and they may have pushed for Manafort, rather than Corey Lewandowski. Corey Lewandowski has been around since May of last year. He came from New Hampshire, sat down with Donald Trump and shook his hand said, "I'm on with you." A little bit of a surprise to me, yeah, because they were the ones hoping Corey were there from the very beginning. Interesting now, Michael Caputo was one of the adviser, the campaign adviser, some high level adviser to the Trump campaign, tweeted, "Ding dong the witch is dead" and showed a picture on his Twitter of, you know, the witch's feet coming, you know, sticking out at the bottom of the house. Well --
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Great movie.
BOLLING: Yeah. And -- but so, that tells me there was some sort of internal strife going on. But then, he just resigned, Michael Caputo, just like minutes ago, resigned as well. So a lot going on in the campaign and they seem to want to be fixing this before they, you know, depict the next step towards the campaign.
GUILFOYLE: All right.
BOLLING: The convention.
GUILFOYLE: All right, Dana, from a communications standpoint, how do you think this was handled? And will it have any like long term, or even short term impact on the campaign and the direction?
PERINO: Bear with me, because I have a few things to answer exactly that.
GUILFOYLE: Perfect.
PERINO: So, one of the timing of this is a little bit unfortunate for the Trump campaign, because this is a decision that could have made on Friday, could have gone played out over the weekend. And then Donald Trump could have started Monday, fresh with a great new message and like shown a real pivot to the campaign. That said -- I think the Caputo thing is a little bit interesting, it shows like the drama is not quite settling. And also, I think it shows how amicable the departure was, at least between with Trump and Corey Lewandowski, that there must have been some great affection there and some loyalty. And I think Donald Trump came to this decision, reluctantly, but was convinced that it was the best thing to do for the campaign, for whatever reasons, they will hopefully tell us at some point. The RNC leaders are -- were concerned. And I think that Manafort was hearing from them that Donald Trump needed to figure out a way to show that he was able to actually turn things around, because the narrative over the weekend was look at this falling poll numbers, and then you had the Orlando issue, that was backed by the Curiel issue, the Mexican judge, and so --
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: This is actually a good pivot, I think for the campaign. The third thing I would say is that Donald Trump's other audience that he needed to show that he was willing to make a change, was the media. And sometimes the only way to change the subject with the media is to actually have some sort of dramatic thing happen. Getting rid of your campaign manager, 19 weeks before the election, that's a pretty big deal, pretty unusual. But, it will allow the Trump campaign, hopefully, in the next 48 hours or so, to try to turn a corner and, and then I guess we'll see what else happens next.
GUILFOYLE: Well, certainly an interesting and kind of a little bit unexpected turn of events. As Dana said, this was so close in, getting in to the final heat, you know, for the general election.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think they blew it. I -- this was the perfect opportunity to do it like "The Apprentice," where they filmed him in the back of the limo, and they interviewed him, it's like, "You haven't heard the last of me," you know, they always say that. Everybody on a reality show says, "You haven't heard the last of me." And ironically, usually that's the last you ever hear of them. Corey Lewandowski served a purpose. He was like a lieutenant in one of those James Ellroy novels, like "L.A. Confidential." He's there for loyalty and muscle. They don't expect intellect from him, so he does his job. If you expect him to be sensitive and perceptive, that's on you. He's there basically -- he's basically as a loyal henchman, and I think it was good news that Trump listened to someone. That means there's hope, maybe it's all fixed, but maybe his family, but it shows that he's listening to somebody. There's a confusion between loyalty and a yes man. Loyalty is important, but a yes man can be damaging. My manager criticizes me every day, and I hate him and I could fire him, but I don't because I know that somebody's got to tell me I'm an idiot. And you need to have people telling you're an idiot. I think it's Trump's family that kind of holds him in and says, look, time for this guy to go and that he finally listened after some months.
GUILFOYLE: That's his circle of trust, but makes no mistake, and campaign manager of the Trump campaign is Donald Trump.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: I mean he's the shock collar. He decides, he is the one who chooses -- Juan, I mean, this is how -- why he's enable to get to where he is, because he is not second guessing his own decisions. But then again, you got to do something about the general election to be able to get in others.
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You have certainly to bring in others and .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: . key point here is party unity. And what you know is that Paul Manafort is known to people in D.C. Corey Lewandowski, I think in New Hampshire, and basically got into politics, you know out of luck and circumstance and serendipity, and it's known as the tough guy, and very tempestuous, a vast. I mean that, but Paul Manafort, he's not always liked by the people who are the players in D.C., but they know he can play, and he's been around and he's willing to make deals. So they can talk to him. He's a conduit now to Trump, whereas Lewandowski was not. The second thing is this weekend, you know, Trump started to make some phantom noises about money, start to asking people to send him money. This was a new one; ask to stand the billionaire money. OK, why is that, it's because if you look at the money totals right now, especially in terms of advertising, it's like Hillary Clinton is spending $23 million in swing states. How much is Donald Trump spending, my dear audience? Zero, zip.
GUILFOYLE: Well, it says that she's up a hundred percent .
WILLIAMS: So --
GUILFOYLE: . in swing states over him --
WILLIAMS: Right. It's unbelievable. And the final --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Just what you are talking about, Kimberly -- the polls. You look at the polls, the most recent polls. I think Bloomberg has her up by 12 or something, and you look at the swing states. And again, the swing states really count, because Donald Trump needs to flip the swing states. That's the whole predicate for his campaign.
GUTFELD: But here is the thing, Trump has a big edge over Hillary. It's Hillary. You know, he may be Freddie Kruger, but she's Jason. You know, he may be, I don't know, Leatherface, but she's Chucky.
PERINO: Hillary Clinton's campaign .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: . has the same thing in reverse.
GUTFELD: Though, is that amazing? No, it's true.
PERINO: True.
GUTFELD: That it's a mirror image. He may be Michael Myers, but she maybe Hannibal Lector.
GUILFOYLE: How many of those do you have written down?
GUTFELD: That was it.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: But I can come up with some more.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, yeah. We'll let you think about that for a moment.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Right. There's no doubt that Trump had a rough 10 or 12 days up until -- maybe the weekend. Maybe he starts to turn around. Maybe he needed a big change in the campaign to say, look, let's draw a line. That was the past. Let's (inaudible) --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: Let's look forward. There wasn't a (inaudible) poll out today that had him down by seven. So he came back a little bit, Juan. So -- who knows? But for me, watching Trump, I just don't like him on the teleprompter. I like him just saying it. And I know they want him on that so, so there aren't slip up's that people go crazy about, but I think what really -- what drew people to Donald Trump was him just .
PERINO: Yup.
BOLLING: . talking off the top of your head. This is what I feel.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BOLLING: Coming from here .
GUILFOYLE: Fresh clean versus (inaudible).
BOLLING: . instead of prepare -- yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: My concern is that --
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: I don't know -- listen, I don't know where Paul Manafort is on this. If he's going to be the campaign manager and you tell me his experience in D.C. and he knows all of that. I hope he doesn't pivot to a hardcore, you know, politician, because I don't think Donald -- that's not his strength.
WILLIAMS: No, but party unity is the key, right, Eric? I mean, you need the Republican Party come together. And what we've seen when Trump's numbers go down; it's not that Hillary is picking up. Nobody is falling on with Hillary.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
WILLIAMS: It's that Donald Trump is losing critical support among independents and among republicans.
GUTFELD: But what Eric is talking about, Trump is in a weird spot. Do you keep being you and would you keep your base who are thrilled or -- but then you may not get -- you get few converts, or you open up your arms, become passionate and risk pissing off your hard base. It's that where he is. He's got to figure out where to go.
PERINO: The one thing Manafort might be able to do that will be helpful is, I think that Corey Lewandowski deserves a lot of credit and some empathy, because you wouldn't be where you are today --
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: And Donald Trump knows that. And I think that's why he probably was reluctant to make the change and then why it looks so amicable of this on the surface. But I also think to what Manafort can do is something that Lewandowski really wasn't able to do with these two very different competing visions. And in some ways, I think that the campaign has been conflating support, or and confusing support at the rallies, which is robust and amazing and a, which is great energy with support in a general election, and those two things are not the same. And so, I can understand if that's true that Manafort went in and said it's him or it's me. At this point, if you are looking 19 weeks until the general election, probably it had to be Manafort.
GUILFOYLE: Right. And you know, and also when you brought up about Corey and Donald Trump being very close. Yeah, and they get along. They like each other and he was the guy to --
BOLLING: And still --
GUILFOYLE: To get it done.
BOLLING: Trump stood by him when .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: . this whole controversy with Michelle Fields and --
GUILFOYLE: Loyal.
BOLLING: And people said it's time to let him go, and Trump said, "No, I'm going to stay with him" --
GUTFELD: By the way, he's hiring her to replace him.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: (inaudible) I just heard.
(LAUGHTER)
BOLLING: Let me check that.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
BOLLING: May or may not be true.
GUTFELD: Yeah. It may not be true.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: You know, we are checking on it, as I speak.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: May not be true. That will fall under bonus.
All right, next. The Justice Department case to pressure to releases the full transcript of the Orlando terrorist call to 911, just hours after it published a redacted one that scrubbed all references to ISIS and Islam. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Yesterday, Attorney General Loretta Lynch said they would only release a partial transcript of the Orlando 911 calls. My word, I wonder what could they possibly leave out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: What we're not going to do is further proclaim this individual's pledges of allegiance to terrorist groups, and further his propaganda.
We will hear him talk about some of those things, but we are not going to hear him make assertions of allegiance on that. This will be audio, this will a printed transcript, but it will begin to capture the back and forth between him and the negotiators.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Terrible.
GUTFELD: But after much outcry, they caved, releasing now the whole transcript, claiming the controversy was becoming a distraction -- "distraction" being another word for "embarrassment." So what's the lesson? While the terrorist should be forgotten, its link to Islamism should not. I'm against releasing 911 calls, because they violate the privacy of victims and their families. But if you are going to release this one, don't leave out the key parts. Those people were killed because of radical Islam.
PERINO: Yup.
GUTFELD: Removing that from the call is like removing the shark from "Jaws" or the Nazis from "Schindler's List." And what if the killer hadn't mentioned the ISIS, but the KKK -- would this even be an issue?
Today, identity trumps security, which brings us to, again, Islamophobia-phobia, that accusatory hall pass to horror. What if the terrorist's name was Joe Smith? It's not. So they focus on guns, blocking out a death cult that infects the planet like a growing malignancy. It's like blaming arson not on the arsonist, but on fire.
Anyway, we're told many times how the left loves science. So here some science: Islamism preaches the murder of infidels. Then an Islamist murders -- by his doctrine -- infidels. Cause meet effect. How could you deny that science, Mr. President?
Why are you giggling?
PERINO: I liked your .
GUTFELD: Science?
PERINO: (inaudible) -- yes.
GUTFELD: Thank you. Eric, are you surprised .
BOLLING: Shocked.
GUTFELD: . that they changed their mind?
BOLLING: I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: No, no, no. I'm not surprised they changed their mind. They had to.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: The outcry was incredible. I mean, what the -- gunman/terrorist, depending on what side of the aisle you --
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: You reside on, what he said has a bearing -- can be -- have a bearing on what his motivations were. What his state of mind was when he was pulling the trigger, killing people. So if you think it's a terrorist, like I do or if you think it's a gunman like some people on the left would think, Juan. Well, it depends on what he says. And if he says, "I pledge allegiance to ISIS and I'm a jihadist, calls himself a jihadist, then you know he's a terrorist.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: So I don't know what this big issue is, of calling terrorists, terrorists. Islamic -- radical Islamic .
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
BOLLING: . terror. Why are we afraid to say it? You can't win the war against people you're trying to -- or try to kill you, unless you call your name or enemy, let everyone around you know -- they are the enemy.
GUILFOYLE: Because they make them 49 dead people wrong, that's why. They don't want us to hear, that they don't want to hear the truth. They don't want to be radical Islamism at all, because it doesn't to fit their ideology. They are in the crusade against guns, and this exposes them.
WILLIAMS: Well, I think the FBI said right from the start. I remember the Sunday morning I was hearing about this. The FBI said right from the start, "We are having a terrorist investigation." We see this as a terrorist incident. I didn't know what, but of course, it's obvious now when you are able to read or listen to the transcripts that he is talking about perpetrating terror. So I don't know that it's not calling a terror --
GUTFELD: But yet, they leave out --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: The "I" word.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: On what?
GUTFELD: They leave out the "I" word.
BOLLING: Yeah, but what --
GUILFOYLE: Delayed.
BOLLING: You can't defend this one. I mean even --
WILLIAMS: I am --
BOLLING: Even if you love the administration, you cannot defend --
WILLIAMS: It's not about love --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: . calling the name, Allah (inaudible) and saying --
WILLIAMS: OK, so let me just make the case that --
BOLLING: Terror on Islam.
WILLIAMS: Let me make the case that.
BOLLING: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: . they make which is, one; what you hear from the James Comey, the FBI director, this guy is confused. He likes one group, he likes ISIS, he like the al-Qaeda, he likes Hamas, they're all -- and they all have contradictory backing and support and aims. So he's just kind of going for anything that for.
GUTFELD: But I --
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: They are all radical Islamists. Give me a break.
GUTFELD: Can I get Dana in here? How did they handle this? Is this just -- what do you think happened?
PERINO: I actually think there's a little bit more innocent than wanting to hide the fact that it was terrorism, because they said that. What can I imagine happening is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, and if there's somebody with well -- good intentions saying, maybe what we should do is not further the propaganda, therefore, let's redact this. And so the communications people which aren't in the room, or they don't have enough of a skeptic like a press secretary to say, excuse me, I'm not going out there and saying that because x, y and z refers to the most transparent .
GUTFELD: Yeah.
PERINO: . administration. And also some to say, if you do that, immediately the country is going to say, you are trying to hide the fact that it's terrorism.
GUTFELD: Right.
PERINO: So I don't, I feel like they -- but there's to have somebody --
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I totally disagree. I think they wanted to water it down. That's why she didn't release the most powerful thing you can play in court that is compelling evidence that grips the jury and wraps the case around them is audio or video. When you have the words of that man speaking and what he's saying and talking about jihad, and talking about -- this is exactly what the administration had been trying to water down like tone down. It is bad for them.
WILLIAMS: I think it has politicized the issue, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: If it wasn't bad for them, they're going to release it, to begin with.
WILLIAMS: What we heard today was, it was people like Paul Ryan saying, "Hey, you got to let this out, you got to let ." And I think it's a political effort, but it's -- because everybody knows this guy -- as we said earlier, was a terrorist who said .
GUILFOYLE: Right.
PERINO: I don't -
WILLIAMS: . that he was doing this to --
PERINO: I disagree.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: There was an attempt, I think last week -- I'm not going to name names, but attempt to by some to say that he was a lone gun. And he was deranged.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: He was upset because he was gay, and he was not out of the closet and that it wasn't .
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
PERINO: . terrorist. And the other thing that the FBI has just announced today is that, now that they have released the full transcript, they want to make sure it's clear that we all know that it says, God instead of Allah, because it was translated from Arabic, but I think from my experience -- I don't, you don't have to translate proper names.
BOLLING: Dana said there are too many cooks in the kitchen .
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: You are a hundred percent, but there's only one chef, and the chef is Loretta Lynch. And she came down, because she's at the DOJ, she runs the DOJ and that oversees the FBI. They even told the FBI would want to subscribe (ph) initially. You know who has the most right to the full transcript, not the scrub (ph) one?
PERINO: Family.
GUILFOYLE: Victim's family.
BOLLING: The gay community.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
PERINO: Absolutely.
BOLLING: The LGBT community deserves to hear exactly who killed 49 of their -- of them.
GUTFELD: The other thing to is, you know, that --
BOLLING: Well, all right. Why .
GUTFELD: Their purpose --
BOLLING: People are saying --
WILLIAMS: You know this is --
GUILFOYLE: They need to know the truth .
BOLLING: . gay haters.
GUILFOYLE: . about what happened to their loved ones.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I thought -- I want you --
BOLLING: This is some guy who hate gays people and --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I want you to say that.
BOLLING: Terrorist.
WILLIAMS: It's just you are making this now into a political article or it's either that the guy was anti-gay or he was anti-American and a terrorist. And in fact, the guy is deranged.
BOLLING: Juan, no. No, no.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: You can have both.
BOLLING: I know for a fact he's one of them.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Islamism is anti-gay.
WILLIAMS: He is deranged.
BOLLING: Right.
GUTFELD: Islamism is anti-gay.
GUILFOYLE: That's one of his (inaudible) of the religion.
WILLIAMS: What we have here is a specific situation where this guy perpetrated a horrific crime, tried to use Islamic terrorism as his cover, but it was anti-gay --
GUILFOYLE: No.
PERINO: Oh.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: No.
(LAUGHTER)
GUILFOYLE: No.
GUTFELD: OK, all right.
GUILFOYLE: Wrong.
PERINO: Oh no.
GUTFELD: Oh, I think my head is going to explode.
WILLIAMS: Where did he commit this crime?
GUILFOYLE: Oh my God.
WILLIAMS: At a gay club.
GUTFELD: Because it's --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I'm not saying.
BOLLING: Jihad --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: He said he's a jihadist.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
GUTFELD: We got to move on --
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: We are now entering the world of absurdity.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUTFELD: Next, we are going to take you live to Capitol Hill where senators are about to consider four proposals to tighten American's gun laws in the wake of the terror attack in Orlando. Stay tuned.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my God.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: You are looking live at the Senate floor where lawmakers are about to vote on four gun control measures, eight days after the deadliest mass shooting in our nation's history. These are both to end debates on amendments to tighten federal gun laws. The proposals include expanding back on checks and banning gun sales to suspected terrorists. None are expected to get enough votes to move on, just like last December. The head of the NRA argues the renewed gun control push won't deter more terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE NRA: Look, right in the face of what these people are they were facing. They don't care about the law. Laws didn't stop them in Boston. Laws didn't stop them in San Bernardino where you have every type of gun control law you could have. And they didn't stop them in Paris, where people can't even own guns. These bad guys we're facing, they don't say, "oh, gosh, they passed a law. Oh gosh, I don't think I can do it." It's like, what we are doing with this debate on the Hill right now, is like they are trying to stop a freight train with a piece of Kleenex.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right, Greg. How did you think of that? What do you think of that metaphor, freight train with Kleenex?
GUTFELD: I thought it was excellent. I mean, imagine debating four bills on box cutters after 9/11. That's the -- it's insane. Can I -- I want to bring up this other -- the idea of profiling. Can I just --
PERINO: Would you like to see a little sound bite first, before you do that?
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: OK, because --
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani, both talk about racial profiling this morning. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think profiling is something that we have to start thinking about as a country, and other countries do it. And you look at Israel and you look at others, and they do it, and they do it successfully. And you know, I hate the concept of profiling, but we have to start using common sense and we have to use, you know, we have to use our heads.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Of course you profile, that's what policing is all about. Here is where it's wrong, it's when you do it based on race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, just for that reason, just because you don't like them. But if you are doing it based on hard facts that lead to protection of the public, like a group of one type.
BRIAN KILMEADE, "FOX AND FRIENDS" CO-HOST: So you have no problem with what he said?
GIULIANI: I have no problem. Of course you should profile, based upon hard facts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: OK, your thoughts on that?
GUTFELD: Yeah. It's not racist to profile an idea. It's not racist to profile a doctrine. If you separate Islamism from Arabic people, you will be fine. Behavior has to be profiled unless you think acting like a terrorist is somehow part of a genetic make up. If you actually think that that's part of who they are, you are the racist. Now I think that's what president Obama's kind of painted himself in a corner because he can't say Islamism or radical Islam. So we can't make the distinction between these radicalisms and all Muslims. Instead, he's the one who's seeing people, not behavior. So now you have reverse profiling. If a terrorist is Muslim, that's helpful as a protective shield. That's why this guy wasn't investigated, the Orlando killer. That's why Hassan got away with it in Fort Hood. I mean, we are now dealing with reverse profiling.
WILLIAMS: Wait a second, they were -- they did investigate.
GUTFELD: The investigation didn't go far because of islamphobia.
WILLIAMS: Oh wait, you said he wasn't investigated.
GUTFELD: You know what I mean, the investigation wasn't complete. You know what I mean.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUTFELD: They were scared of being called islamaphobias so they let them go.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Oh, no. Well that's just so mean to the FBI agents. You think they were stupid and incompetent.
GUTFELD: That's not what he's saying.
WILLIAMS: They made the best effort. And you can say hey, you know what, you should have gone farther. But it has nothing to do with profiling.
PERINO: But these four amendments that they're going to vote on tonight, none of them would've prevented the Orlando shooting.
BOLLING: Expanded background checks, no fly, no buy, which is the terrorist watch list which he wasn't on at the time. The mentally ill, making it more difficult for those who have been diagnosed mentally ill to get guns, gun show loophole. By the way, those are sensible. Some of them you can actually work with. I agree with a couple of these including the one where there's -- they're talking about a five year look back. So if you were on the terrorist watch list five years ago but taken off, you go and try and but a gun, they're going to freeze the gun sale for the moment.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, delay.
BOLLING: Yes, delay it and then -- and go investigate you. Those are sensible things. But, practice what's going to happen. They're talking about this. They're going to get closure on whatever they didn't do and then it won't pass.
PERINO: Yes, they're going to fail.
BOLLING: Yes, there are all these -- these proposals are going to fail.
WILLIAMS: And why is that?
BOLLING: Because you're not going to get 60 votes.
WILLIAMS: And why is that?
BOLLING: Because you're not going to get 60 senators to vote in favor.
WILLIAMS: Or because the Republicans refuse to do business with anybody but the NRA.
PERINO: I mean, I think that, look, tow of the amendments that are being voted on, or maybe three are propose by republicans, you know, Cornyn and Grassley, and Collins. And if there is ...
WILLIAMS: And what about the mental -- the mental ...
PERINO: Well but no, and also the fair watch list, senator Cornyn. I mean, there has been movement and we'll get Kimberly in here. The thing is thought that, there's a fuse research study that found, Kimberly, that people who prioritize gun rights over gun control are four or five times more likely to support advocacy groups, contact public officials, find petitions and be active. And so I think that's why this continues to ...
GUILFOYLE: You know why, because they're in it. They got skin in the game or muzzle in the game. That's the thing. So they're like, hey this is something we care about. We're passionate about the second amendment. It tends to be something that's an identifying factor to them in terms of their life. It's part of their lifestyle choice whether it's target shooting or hunting or things of that nature. So they embraced it as a sport and kind of a lifestyle as well.
So there's more of a psychological commitment to it which means that they want to in fact go and vote about it, get involved, contact, you know, their public representatives and that's why you won't get 60 votes because people in those constituent communities are hearing from advocates and they're pressing them on it.
WILLIAMS: And I don't think that's it because when I look at the numbers, when I look at the poll numbers, it's pretty clear, it says here, 71% of Americans favor...
GUILFOYLE: That's a general number.
WILLIAMS: ... requirements on guns, on loopholes, closing the gun show loophole. And when it comes to Republicans, I think it's really important to say, 60 plus percent of Republicans favor tight background checks, closing the loophole for gun shows. That's incredible. And yet you see the Republican representative you're talking about say, oh we can't do this. It says ...
GUILFOYLE: Juan, because you're talking a general number versus state or district or specific counties.
WILLIAMS: I'm talking senators, the United States senators.
GUILFOYLE: Okay. That's also in terms of the house ...
PERINO: Last word to Eric.
BOLLING: Juan, the vast majority of people who are killed by guns in America are killed in cities by people killing each other, right?
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
BOLLING: Which one of these gun rules, if strengthened would stop the 10 or 15 shootings a weekend in Chicago where people are dropping dead because honestly, it's African-Americans shooting other African-Americans and they're dying. But if you tighten any one of these, any one of these gun laws, that won't affect one to Chicago and all the killings going on in all the cities like it.
GUILFOYLE: And those are handguns.
WILLIAMS: That's not true, you know, I mean...
BOLLING: Which one, which one will it help?
WILLIAMS: We had this discussion last week where ...
BOLLING: Let's just pick one. Which one?
WILLIAMS: ... you wanted to replay what happened.
BOLLING: I just want to know which gun law that if you strengthen will stop the killing in Chicago.
WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you something, I think at this point, if you believe that terrorists should be limited from getting guns, people who are prospected terrorists then you would say ...
BOLLING: Can you just pick one.
WILLIAMS: ... we want to take preventive, proactive steps, Eric ...
BOLLING: Just pick one of these laws that will help this, stop the killing in Chicago.
WILLIAMS: If you make it tougher to buy guns in states like Indiana and they'll export them to cities like Chicago that will stop. That will help to stop the level which is ...
GUILFOYLE: Gang members are getting illegal guns, they're not going, let me check in with my neighborhood counselor to see if I'm mentally fit and go but a gun under my name so I can get busted when my slug goes in to my buddy that's in the wrong gang.
WILLIAMS: You don't understand that people buy guns ...
GUILFOYLE: I understand far better than you do. I was a prosecutor.
WILLIAMS: ... and sell them illegally.
GUTFELD: Well, you know, and also, it's the jail sentences. They have to be put away. The criminals have to be put away longer. The gun crimes have to be -- have a harsher penalties and a lot of the same.
PERINO: But at the same time, everybody wants justice reform and criminals want to be let out.
GUTFELD: I don't.
GUILFOYLE: And there's gun routes for illegal guns. That's what's happening.
PERINO: Okay. Next here, legendary baseball announcer Vin Scully dismantles socialism in just 17 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: Hall of fame Dodgers announcer Vin Scully's been delivering cutting commentary on baseball for 67 years. On Friday, he threw some politics into the mix and he hit it out of the park. It came when Milwaukee Brewers player Hernan Perez was up to bat. Perez is from Venezuela where socialism is currently reeking havoc on it's citizens. Scully offered this epic takedown of the less utopia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIN SCULLY, LOS ANGELES DODGERS SPORTSCASTER: Socialism failing to work as it always does this time in Venezuela. You talk about giving everybody something free and all of a sudden there's no food to eat. And who do you think is the richest person in Venezuela? The daughter of Hugo Chavez.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Socialism has left the country starving. People there are currently rioting and looting in order to simply feed their families. Juan, let me start, you love baseball.
WILLIAMS: I do.
BOLLING: Do you like socialism?
WILLIAMS: No.
BOLLING: Okay. Finally, Vin Scully, 17 seconds he ended with, oh well, 0- 2.
WILLIAMS: I know, I know. And I'm a guy who likes to listen to baseball on the radio. I mean, they talk about all kind of things. So the question is here, should he have used that platform for a political message? Now if it's a political message that you, Dr. Bolling didn't like, would you be here screaming at me about, those crazy baseball announcers talking about something they know nothing about?
GUTFELD: Can I respond to that?
GUILFOYLE: He's a baseball player. He loves it.
GUTFELD: You know, you're talking about -- what you're talking about appropriately, hypocrisy. I railed against Bob Costas in a big way because he went off on a gun rant and I was -- and then I ran into him in the green room and he was yelling at me. But this issue is different and here's why. If you are anti-gun, it's a media club pass to the most exclusive lounge there is.
So if you say guns are bad, your inbox will be full of love from your peers. It's an easy thing.
WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, imagine my inbox from this table. Come on.
GUTFELD: But no one, I'm saying, no one is saying what Vin Scully said. Instead, celebrities like Sean Penn and Oliver Stone will brownnose the Chavez family and then they will sleek off to the darkness as people eat each other because they don't have any food. My point is this, it is probably hypercritical to champion Vin and make fun of Costas with one exception, what he does, everybody does and Vin, that's the first time I've heard it on TV.
BOLLING: Yes, I think that's what's so shocking. And he was so concise and he really -- he really nailed it.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. I can see the euphoria on your face Bolling. You just love it. But yes. But it was distinct and he did like so much of things, right? It's like the delivery, the messenger and the way he said it, the way he laid it out and he goes, oh well, 0-2. It's just funny. Right, and you just like it. It's just kind of like a nice way to say it but it also brings the point home which is true. I mean the thought like, you know, outgoing commercial flights from there. Yes, you can't get milk, you can't get beer. That's going to be a problem ...
GUTFELD: Toilet paper.
GUILFOYLE: ... electricity. Toilet paper not that Greg would ever use it. So, you know, it's just a lot of problems over there.
BOLLING: Dana, and that's really it because there was so much truth to behind what he said. I mean it's not really opinion that socialism is failing in Venezuela.
PERINO: And part of the reason this is new is it -- is that it's unusual. If you watch the Oscars, you know that you're going to get filled with all sorts of political talk and we sort of make fun of them. This was unusual. And I thought he nailed it and I just -- I love him and all men of his generation that are patriots. The interesting thing about Venezuela is, it's so rich in oil resources.
One of the things that Maduro has done is he's basically created an enemy's list. So he has put the leftist that are loyal to him in charge of food distribution. So basically it's like saying, if you agree with me, then you're going to get food and if you don't -- I mean it's absolutely the worst kind of humanitarian crisis and I'm sure with the UN.
WILLIAMS: Let me jump in here and say something that's really of concern to me and that Bernie Sanders' supporters very passionate, very strong but guess what because really surprising is when you look though the exit polls coming out of so many of these primary races, high percentage of democrats saying, they're okay with socialism.
GUTFELD: Yes, scary.
WILLIAMS: And right now, I just saw a post that 60% of people 18-26 in the United States think socialism is compassionate.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Well to me, Vin Scully can say what he wants to say but just go look at the front page of newspapers where people are fighting for food in Venezuela. Something's wrong here. And the message that's going to our young people in this country is reason for concern.
PERINO: And also that Iran is making inroads in Latin America and they will foster more instability which is not good for us, either.
BOLLING: We got their -- one of the bombs Dana.
PERINO: Oh wait.
PERINO: I mean, hello.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: All right, for the first time in more than a half a century, the Cleveland Cavaliers can now call themselves champions. Lebron James collapsing into the ground after help bringing his team to a historic victory. Basketball's emotional night next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Final seconds. It's over! It's over! Cleveland is the city of champions once again. The Cavaliers are NBA champions.
WILLIAMS: They had to wait 52 years but Cleveland finally tasted victory last night. The cavaliers claim the NBA's championship title. They're the first team in the league's history to come from behind in the finals having trailed three games to one. They defeated the Golden State Warriors in a dramatic game seven. Here's the emotional MVP. Lebron James on fulfilling his promise to Cleveland.
LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: We got the gold. For years when I came back -- championship to this city. I gave everything that I had. I put my heart, my blood, my sweat and my tears to this game.
WILLIAMS: Greg, it's like a novel. I mean, he leaves the city. He says, oh, I'm out of here. He wins two titles in Miami.
GUTFELD: It's a fairytale. I just want to point out the inherent racism of this show that we're having Juan do the basketball segment.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Also ...
GUILFOYLE: He chose it!
GUTFELD: Also, what a bad message to send to America that the Cavaliers beat the Warriors. Typical millenials, they just don't care. By the way, the Bachelorette, this is nothing. The Bachelorette, tonight, we're going to find out if Chad goes totally ...
WILLIAMS: Wait, wait, wait. How many people watched the NBA finals last night?
GUTFELD: Like 100,000.
WILLIAMS: That's what I thought.
GUILFOYLE: Can we just talk about this in a meaningful way? Not from the guy that rode the bench and slice the oranges? Okay so the bottom ...
GUTFELD: Is that euphemism?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, exactly. This is obviously great and I want to tell you something, I bet you there's a back loaded contract.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: ... because and he has some kind of bonus that if he got the championship, I bet you, I can just smell the dollar signs. But, obviously, it was tremendous. It shows when you have one great player like that, like a Michael Jordan, like a Lebron James, they're a game changer. They bring a team together. He felt bad when he left for Miami and he just doesn't -- didn't accept the offer in New York and he went back to Cleveland.
So, I mean, I'm actually really bummed out about this, because Golden State Warriors, which was -- this team was one of the best to play in the league.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, to me, there was also a great moment of T.V. right after the game. And it came from an unusual source. JR Smith, a player for the Cavaliers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JR SMITH, NBA PLAYER: My parents, my family, are still the biggest inspiration to my life. They are who they are. They followed me. They yelled at me, they screamed at me, they loved me, they hugged me, they cried with me, and they always stuck by my side no matter right or wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So, to see, you know, a tough guy, basketball star break down like that. And then later, he gets up and goes and hugs his dad on Father's Day, made a big impression to me as a black guy. What do you think, Dana as a white lady?
PERINO: I didn't see that but -- my god. I actually watched the end of the game. I think it's great about Lebron James. And in terms of a story, I liked that part. I do think that basketball seems a little easy for these ...
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh!
PERINO: ... for these guys because they stand tall and they're so fast and I really think that the court should be lengthened or the basket -- because they go like, bounce, bounce, basket, bounce, bounce, basket. And ...
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my god. I can see everything slipping to Sport Center.
PERINO: .in Cleveland's mood until mid July.
GUTFELD: Yeah exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Everything good happens in Cleveland this .
PERINO: Road to Cleveland baby, road to Cleveland.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: ... they tweeted that they've had the first winning team ...
BOLLING: 30.8 million people watched that game.
PERINO: I think there's going to be ...
WILLIAMS: Fathers day, obviously fantastic.
BOLLING: Great series.
WILLIAMS: Great.
BOLLING: Who saw that coming? Anyone said that they saw a three down, three-one down and win, no one saw that.
GUTFELD: Cavaliers, it's basketball's Trump.
PERINO: Oh my god, perfect. Hey Greg, let's take a bus to Cleveland, what do you say?
WILLIAMS: One more thing, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Hello there. It's time now for one more thing. Mr. Bolling?
BOLLING: OK. One week and one day, my book "Wake Up America" is coming out. But on Thursday, this Thursday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, it's called the live signing where, I guess they'd bring a camera into my house,
GUTFELD: Yes.
BOLLING: And I sit and I talk and sign books. And we call, you call and I answer. Greg, you've done this before?
GUTFELD: It's awesome. Just have some drinks with you. It's actually a lot of fun. You sit there .
GUILFOYLE: I can talk with you, for sure.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BOLLING: I definitely have freedom there.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but if they buy your book, you call them, you get an inside look at the Bolling family. It's very exciting.
PERINO: I can't believe it. I mean, O'Reilly's going to be upset because you're going to compete with him on Thursday at 8 pm. No more stealing hosting.
GUTFELD: What is their mean? Are they .
GUILFOYLE: No one's mean.
BOLLING: Everybody's nice. All right. Check it out, there's the book coming up Thursday night by 8:00 o'clock.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Do it, buy it. "Wake up America." Dana.
PERINO: "Wake up Dana". OK. We love to read here at "The Five." And Dana Loesch is somebody who has a new book out. It's called, "Flyover Nation."
You can't run a country you've never been to. So, she grew up in the Midwest, so did I. I had a chance to get to know her during this year's election coverage. I think she's great.
She raises the point that you really can't run a country if you don't understand it and the coastal elites flying back and forth between California and New York and D.C.
Don't every really get to understand what's going on in the rest of America. And it's a really entertaining read. So, she's going to be on Megan Kelly tonight on "The Kelly File." So, you'll see her at 9:00 pm eastern.
GUTFELD: You still get to watch a lot of cool movies though when you flyover.
PERINO: That's true.
GUILFOYLE: Is that a new hair?
GUTFELD: You learn a lot about movies -- from movies. I watched a lot of .
GUILFOYLE: OK. Doesn't she sell the Super Beats?
GUTFELD: ... Bond movies.
GUTFELD: Yes Gina?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Okay ...
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: ... very good, they're very good. OK. Greg, what do you have?
GUTFELD: I -- people asked me why am I wearing a purple tie, because today is June 20th, which is the longest day of the year and it's a day that you honor the 15 million caregivers of Alzheimer's and the 5 million people who actually suffer from the disease. It's a fatal disease, there are no survivors.
And it's pretty much just hard for the caregivers as it is for the victims of it. Go to alz.org and learn more about it. We don't do enough for it and man, when the baby boomers, it isn't going to be pretty.
WILLIAMS: Yep.
GUTFELD: So, cure, now.
GUILFOYLE: Thank you, Greg.
GUTFELD: You're welcome.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Juan.
WILLIAMS: So, this weekend, we had a full moon, but we also had the 131st anniversary of the arrival of the Statue of Liberty.
The project started 1865 when a French intellectual got the idea inspired, his wanting to inspire the French to follow the American example of justice and liberty for all.
In specific, he was responding to the 13th amendment, the abolition of slavery.
But, you should know that it was built in Paris, cost about $250,000. But the pedestal, paid for by Americans, $270,000, now worth many millions more.
PERINO: I got to go by that on a boat this weekend at night, it was windy.
GUTFELD: It must be nice.
GUILFOYLE: All right. I have something to tell you about the daughters of the American Revolution.
You might have heard about this group. I'm sure Dana knows about them.
So, it's a lineage based membership service organization for women who are directly descended from a person involved in United States fight for independence.
How cool is that? Well, they are constantly giving back. And in fact that the organization set a Guinness world record Saturday for the most letters to military personnel collected in one month.
Guess what their goal was? 10,000. Guess what they hit.
PERINO: 30.
GUILFOYLE: No, 100,000 ...
PERINO: Wow.
GUILFOYLE: ..letters to military personnel. So that's fantastic. God bless them for giving back. And they're going to send them out Wednesday or Thursday of this week.
All right. Oh -- welcome beyond "Hannity" tonight. I almost forgot. Thanks John
All right, set your DVRs, all right, hello. So, you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.
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