This is a rush transcript from "Tucker Carlson Tonight," July 22, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Good evening, and welcome to "Tucker Carlson Tonight." We sent Dr. Siegel to Washington today. He interviewed the president in the West Wing. Most of the interview is straight ahead tonight. Here's a preview of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, you know, the way it works, if I'm the first one, they'll say he's so selfish he wanted to get the vaccine first. And then other people would say, hey, that's a very brave thing to do.
I would absolutely -- if they wanted me to and if they thought it was right, I'd take it first or I take it last, Marc? You do know that if I take it first, I'll be -- either way I lose on that one, right?
If I take it first, and if I take it -- if I don't take it, they'll say he doesn't believe in the program.
DR. MARC SIEGEL, FOX NEWS MEDICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I'll make a deal. I'll take it and then you.
TRUMP: We'll take it together.
SIEGEL: That's right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Much more on than just ahead. But first tonight, for the past two months, as you well know, a small group of power hungry professional activists has screamed at the rest of us about saving lives. They're trying to keep people from dying, they tell us they say that with total certainty, and of course, maximum self-righteousness.
The rest of us, they tell us just don't care about saving lives. We are selfish and immoral and we must be punished for that.
The activists yell all of this at high volume. They've yelled it for so long now, unchallenged, that many otherwise sensible people have begun to believe it and to take them seriously.
Our richest corporations have sent them millions of dollars. Our media praise them as heroes. Our political leaders, terrified and confused, do whatever they say.
But are these activists telling the truth? Do they mean what they say? Do they actually care about saving lives?
These are vitally important questions because they will determine the course of policies in the coming years that could totally reshape this country.
So it's worth finding the answers. To do that, turn down the volume a little bit. Ignore what the slogans are screaming at you. Ignore the graffiti they're painting in your cities. Instead, consider the evidence. Watch what they've done.
In Chicago, for instance, as in so many American cities, activists have demanded that the police stop enforcing the law. Police and laws are illegitimate they claim. Now, there's no evidence that that is true, but craven city leaders in Chicago and many other places have obeyed them anyway. The police have been forced to stand down.
So what happened next? Well, here's the result in Chicago. In the last month alone, literally hundreds of Americans have been gunned down there.
Just last night, for example, at least 15 people were shot in a single incident outside a funeral home in the city. Some of that chaos was caught on surveillance tape. Watch this.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CARLSON: The first thing you'll notice about that tape after the sound is that it was light out. The killers pulled up in full view and simply started shooting people with impunity.
Bodies fell on the sidewalk, the wounded screamed. But the gunfire continued. This wasn't Baghdad, it was America's third largest city.
It's hard to believe this is happening here. But the activists don't care. They made this possible. They did this. But they're not organizing marches to protest this violence. They're ignoring it completely.
The White House is not ignoring it. The administration has said it will send Federal law enforcement agents to Chicago to restore order, to stop these killings. The city's mayor, a living parody of entitlement and incompetence called Lori Lightfoot has promised to prevent that help from arriving.
"Under no circumstances, " she tweeted, " ... will, I allow Donald Trump's troops to come to Chicago and terrorize our residents."
In Lori Lightfoot's Chicago, law enforcement is banned, only gang members are allowed to terrorize the population, and they do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Sadly, once again, the victims of Chicago gun violence are kids. Today's shooting injured cousin's, two boys, ages 10 and 11.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): The vehicle pulled up and three men got out of that vehicle and started shooting on the block that was just filled with children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): The Fourth of July weekend marked by devastating gun violence across the country. And in Chicago, more than 75 people were shot and at least 14 killed, including a 14-year-old boy and a seven-year-old girl. It's the third week in a row that children have died from gun violence in Chicago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: It's just awful. But nothing you just saw affects Lori Lightfoot in any way. Lori Lightfoot is surrounded at all times by armed bodyguards paid for by her suffering subjects. She demands that. Lori Lightfoot understands that Chicago is a highly dangerous place.
But for the ordinary people who live in her crumbling city, things look very different. They don't have taxpayer funded bodyguards. Their Chicago was a place where seven-year-olds, maybe their seven-year-olds get murdered in broad daylight, and local politicians like Lightfoot do nothing about it.
So for them, in the face of violence like that, law enforcement isn't primarily a political issue. Cops aren't, quote, "Donald Trump's troops." They're vital to survival, without them people die.
They know that cops are mostly just blue-collar Americans who in some cases risk their lives to stop the murder of children. So watch what happens when a local TV reporter asks people on the streets of Chicago what they think of sending Federal law enforcement to their city.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: So President Trump is sending Federal troops to various cities around the country. If you look over there, you'll see some -- what look to be some people in black --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to be honest --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we need that. We honestly need that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I feel better. Thumbs up -- because -- I give it a thumbs up because of the violence, this continuum, day in and day out, weekend, little children, and it's just unnatural that all of is violence like we're literally in a war zone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: "Like we're literally in a war zone," He says. You hear that phrase a lot, but in this case, the man you just saw is not far off.
When cities are at war, law and order disappear. No one is in charge. No one is in control. The only people with power are those willing to use violence.
Parts of Chicago look like that right now. Children as young as 10 on the south side have committed at least a dozen car jackings.
Overall, so far this year, 2,150 people have been shot in the City of Chicago -- 2,150 people. That is the equivalent of more than 13 fully loaded Boeing 737s. Imagine those passenger planes lined up next to each other. That's how many people it is.
It's more than the entire population of 21 separate Texas counties. That's how many people have been shot in the City of Chicago since January, and there will almost certainly be many more before the year ends.
This is a disaster no matter what Lori Lightfoot claims, Chicago needs help from somewhere. Anthony Napolitano is an alderman from Chicago. He represents the northwestern part of the city. He joins us now.
Alderman Napolitano, thanks so much for coming on.
ANTHONY NAPOLITANO CHICAGO ALDERMAN: Thanks for having me, Tucker.
CARLSON: I am -- this is Chicago. This is the city that built a lot of the rest of the country and it's our third largest city and it does seem like things are completely out of control. The numbers show it.
What does Chicago need to save the lives of its own citizens right now?
NAPOLITANO: You know, I kind of sum it up in a four-step process and the first step is definitely take President Trump's help. If you don't want the Feds on the street, have them work the warrants, have them infiltrate the gangs, implement RICO charges, go after the drugs.
We have 117,000 gang members on the street. Hit them where it hurts in the money.
The second thing we have to do is, we need a State's Attorney here that's actually going to press criminal charges. Our State's Attorney right now celebrates a catch and release process and it's killing us over here. Criminals here know that if you're going to do the crime, you're not going to do the time.
But we also have got to get behind our officers. You know, we've got to get rid of this anti-police movement. Then we need to, you know, hold police officers that are bad accountable, but praise the ones that are doing good work out there.
These guys haven't had a contract in three years. If you give them a contract, it's going to boost morale, and they're going to want to be the police again.
And on your first topic, what you said -- you know, we have a large silent majority here. As an elected official, the only one I hear from is the vocal radical socialists here in Chicago. We have a sleeping giant majority that needs to stand up and hold the rest of these elected officials accountable.
And you have what they want. You have their vote. Make them do something about this. We need help. Let them bring the Feds in and help us out. We've got to save the city.
CARLSON: I think you're at the point where it is a question of saving the city. Chicago is depopulating. People who can afford to, as you well know, are leaving. They're going to Wisconsin. They're leaving the region. They can't live there. It's too expensive. And it's too dangerous.
Do the people who run the city -- does your mayor -- do they understand that?
NAPOLITANO: They do. I mean, the census is coming up now and we're pushing this. We're trying to get so many people to fill this out because our fear is when these numbers come in, they're going to be astronomically lower than usual.
And we know it. I was asked a couple days ago, how are we keeping people here? I'm begging my neighborhood to stay here. Everyone is retiring. They're like, Anthony, we're getting out of here. I'm like, stay. I tell everybody, there are better times ahead of us. We're going to get ahead of this.
Things have to change and they're going to change. This is Chicago. It's a tough city. We don't just give up here.
CARLSON: It's such a great city. It's a tragedy to see this. It's a beautiful historic city. Lori Lightfoot, you probably don't want to get political, but I have to ask you, what do you think she's thinking?
NAPOLITANO: You know, my job is to work with the mayor to the best of my ability. You know, we might not even agree on things 50 percent of the time. But that being said, what she is probably thinking right now is okay, we tried to stand our ground. Now, it's time to open our arms up. Take the help from the Federal government.
I've been saying this for months, if not years. This has got to be about people. This can't be about this election that's coming up in November. That was -- what I've been telling everybody is they do not want to let the President help because when it's a success and we bring crime down, they're afraid he is going to look like a success and it is going to help his election.
We've got to get rid of that nonsense. We just have to focus on saving our city and saving these lives because we're losing lives at an astronomical rate. It's not fair. It's not fair to these communities.
CARLSON: Amen. I hope you're the mayor. I do. Alderman Napolitano -- I mean it. Thank you.
NAPOLITANO: Good to see you, Tucker. Thanks for having me.
CARLSON: Well, violent riots have rocked a lot of cities, but maybe none more than Portland, Oregon. It's been going on for 53 straight days. Here's what it looks like.
[VIDEO CLIP PLAYS]
CARLSON: These are not peaceful protests. They're not even close. These are riots and the rioters have destroyed property. They've attacked police officers. They raided the Federal Courthouse in Portland. They set fire to the headquarters of the police union.
They've torn down statues including one of George Washington. They sprayed graffiti all over the city.
Portland's leaders have done nothing to respond to this. In fact, they've abetted it. They've egged it on. They've given political cover to the rioters by blaming the police.
Now the Federal Department of Homeland Security has dispatched hundreds of agents to the city. Oregon's Governor Kate Brown says she's outraged by this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATE BROWN, D-ORE: When I spoke with the Director of the Department of Homeland Security last week, I told him to go home and to take his Federal troops with him.
This is a democracy, not a dictatorship. We cannot have secret police abducting people into and putting them in unmarked vehicles.
I cannot believe I have to say that to the President of the United States. I know that Oregonians are outraged. Americans should be appalled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: These people are fools and history will treat them harshly. In the meantime, Chad Wolf is the Acting Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, the man in charge of the Federal response to Portland. He joins us tonight.
Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for coming on. So give us the facts to start, if you would, what is the Federal response to the chaos in Portland?
CHAD WOLF, ACTING SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Yes, Tucker. Let me just comment on the Governor's statement there. I think it's absolutely ridiculous. It's an uneducated statement and she really needs to understand what the Department of Homeland Security's mission there is in Portland.
We are there to protect a Federal Courthouse and other Federal properties there in Portland and we need to do that. We need to make sure that they're not burned down as the video showed just a few minutes ago.
But we need local law enforcement to be a partner with us. We see this in every other city across the country, when Federal property is targeted, we have local law enforcement partnering with Federal law enforcement to address that, to investigate and to arrest individuals. That type of assistance is not there in Portland.
We have no assistance from the local leadership there, either from the mayor or from the governor. And so what does that mean? That means that the Federal agencies and law enforcement officers from the Department are left on their own night after night, from midnight until 5 a.m. every night, 53 nights in a row, we have upwards from 500 to a thousand violent anarchists that are targeting that Federal building, endangering the lives of my law enforcement officers.
And at this point, we have no support from the local leadership there and we're not taking it any longer. We're surging forces in there. We're making arrests. We're holding people accountable that are committing Federal crimes, and we will continue to do that.
At the same time. I beg and plead with the local law enforcement there to partner with us and that leadership, but as you indicated in the comments, that the Governor made earlier, she has taken this to be very political and doesn't really understand how the system works.
CARLSON: I mean, it does raise the larger question, so the rest of us in this country who don't live in Portland, Oregon are paying for your attempt to help the people who do, but the leaders of Portland seem to want to watch their city be destroyed, go up in flames, be defaced by graffiti. Has it occurred, maybe you just kind of let Portland collapse in on itself?
WOLF: Well, Tucker, I would say that, again, we have a mission in Portland. We protect all those 9,000 Federal facilities across the country. That's part of the mission at the Department.
Portland is no different. We need to protect that seat of justice. A courthouse is where justice is served.
CARLSON: That's right.
WOLF: And if we let violent anarchists run that over, then I'm afraid of what that means across this country and I'm not prepared to do that at the moment. The President is not prepared to do that.
We're going to stand our ground. We're going to protect Federal property. We're going to do our mission. We're going to do the mission that Congress gave us to do. We're going to do it professionally.
But again, we're not going to let individuals continue to target Federal property, but most importantly, target Federal law enforcement officers and other individuals that work in that courthouse that are afraid of their lives every day.
CARLSON: I'm glad I asked that question, because that's just really a great answer that you just gave. Mr. Secretary, thank you very much for coming on tonight.
WOLF: Great, thank you.
CARLSON: Well, we sent our show's doctor -- yes, we have our own physician -- Dr. Marc Siegel, who went to Washington today. He interviewed the President in the West Wing. It's a great interview and it's next.
Plus, in case you didn't think things were crazy enough, Seattle is planning to shut down its jails. Police in Denver ordered to stand down when Antifa attacked a pro-police rally and started hurting people. Amazing.
One Colorado lawmaker was on stage when it happened. His account straight ahead.
CARLSON: Our own Dr. Marc Siegel took a break from his medical practice in New York and went to Washington this morning to interview the White House, the President, rather at the White House. Here's part of their conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIEGEL: Mr. President, great news today on vaccines again. Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine, a hundred million doses being purchased by the Federal government for $2 billion. It seems like therapeutics and vaccines are really proceeding at a major speed.
TRUMP: They are Marc. They're going very well. I watch you all the time and I watch -- you're almost like my guide to this because frankly, you really have a good take on it. You know how important it is.
The vaccines are doing well and therapeutics, I mean, you tell me, but I almost would prefer the therapeutics even first. You go into the hospital, you make people better, but we're doing very well with remdesivir and other things. The steroids are turning out to be great. Plasma is turning out to be really good.
We've made tremendous progress, and I think that's what you see the death numbers -- it's a horrible thing to say, but that's why you see the death numbers really looking much better.
SIEGEL: More on vaccines. I'm concerned about vaccine compliance in this country. Thirty percent of people have said they wouldn't even take this vaccine.
As Commander-in-Chief and leader of the free world, would you consider being one of the first to take this vaccine to send a message to the American public?
TRUMP: Well you know the way it works. If I'm the first one, they'll say he's so selfish he wanted to get the vaccine first. And then other people would say, hey, that's a very brave thing to do.
I would absolutely if they wanted me to and if they thought it was right, I'd take it first or I take it last, Marc. You know that if I take it first I'll be -- either way, I lose on that one, right?
If I take it first, and if I take it -- if I don't take it, they'll say he doesn't believe in the program. But whatever I think is best, whatever we all agree is best, I would certainly do that.
SIEGEL: I'll make you a deal, I'll take it and then you.
TRUMP: We will take it together.
SIEGEL: That's right.
SIEGEL: Talk to me about lockdowns. As you know, we are very disturbed about the -- you probably more than me, disturbed about the economic, mental, physical, medical cost of lockdowns and Democratic governors are again talking about lockdowns. What's your view?
TRUMP: You know, you can almost see it on television. I've watched some of these guys. I watched -- well, I won't say it because it's not someone I have a lot of liking or respect for, but a certain comedian that's been locked in his house for a long period of time, and he's like withered away. He's lost all the deals.
He's lost the wit. He's lost so much. I almost would like to use him as an example. But you can use more than just him.
It's hurting people. These lockdowns are hurting people. We did the right thing, Marc. I don't know if you agree, but I think you do.
We closed it down. We understood the disease. We didn't know anything about this. This came in. This was new. We understood the disease. We banned China from coming in, which was a big move.
In fact, Dr. Fauci actually said that I saved tens of thousands of lives. And if you remember, I was the only one that wanted to do it. Nobody -- we had an office of 21 people, everyone said, no, but I said we've got to do it because you could see the infection in China. We banned them.
Then we banned Europe from coming in, which was good with Italy and all the problems. But we did it right. We closed it up. And now we're opening and we've learned, for instance, we've learned that the elderly especially, obviously, you can say this better than anybody, the elderly who have diabetes or heart problems, have a problem. They are really susceptible.
And you know when people like to compare it to the flu, it's interesting because I see the flu numbers and they're very bad. But when I look at flu numbers and I look -- I never lost anybody to the flu.
I never had somebody -- all of my life, I've heard many people had the flu. They had the flu. How are you doing? I have the flu. Nobody died. I never remember anybody saying like, you know, he had the flu and he died.
I've lost five people, probably six, actually, as of this moment, I think pretty soon, but I've lost five friends that went in. One of them tested, a great guy, Stanley Chera, one of the top real estate people in New York, a very successful man, a good man, too.
Never into politics until I ran. He became like a political wild man. He loved it. But a great guy with a great spirit. He said, I tested positive. And I said, well, that's too bad, but you'll be okay. I'll be okay. He went to the hospital, two days later, he's in a coma.
I say how is Stanley doing? He is in a coma and two days later, he died. And you know that's happened in numerous occasions. It probably happened to you with people, too.
I never remember anything like that. It didn't. I mean, I never remember this happening with the flu.
So, this is a very serious thing. But we've learned -- people -- Stanley was an older guy. He perhaps could have lost a couple of pounds. Actually, I always thought of him as healthy, but other people that are healthy, the age is such a big factor.
When you look in New Jersey, I happen to like him. He is liberal, but I get along with a very well, your Governor of New Jersey, right, Governor Murphy.
He said they had -- with the thousands of deaths, they had one death under the age of 18 and I believe that young person had diabetes, but one death out of thousands of people, one death, and that's an amazing statistic.
So we wouldn't have known that at the beginning. In all fairness, you didn't know the elderly would be so badly hurt. So we're really taking care of the elderly population right now at a level that has never happened before.
SIEGEL: Are we going to beat this virus?
TRUMP: We're going to beat it. Yes, we're going to beat it and with time, we are going to beat it. Time, you know, I say it's going to disappear. They say, oh, that's terrible. I said, well, it's true. I mean, it's going to disappear.
Before it disappears, I think we can knock it out before it disappears. That's what I want. And if I had my choice of vaccines or therapeutics, give me therapeutics every time because I'd love to walk into a hospital and give everybody something and they start walking out in two days. That's what I'd like.
A vaccine is very good longer term, but give me therapeutics and we're doing really good work therapeutically.
CARLSON: The President also described in some detail the cognitive tests that his physicians are performing on him. Does he think Joe Biden can pass a similar cognitive test? He explains that in the next part of the interview after the break.
CARLSON: White House physicians monitor everything about a President, including his cognitive ability. Most Presidents don't talk about that, of course, but this President was happy, too, in great detail when asked by our Dr. Siegel. Watch.
SIEGEL: Presidential health or health of a candidate is going to be on the table, of course, as it always is. And I've been someone always asking for that. I've seen a lot about your health being in good health. What do you think should come out or be the attention regarding Vice President Biden?
TRUMP: Well, I think we have to be in good health. I'll tell you what, this is a very, very important job, to put it mildly. There's nothing like it, and I will also say, and I think I've had to work harder than others because I've been attacked from fronts that nobody ever got attacked on.
You know, with fake investigations, fake Russia, Russia, Russia, Ukraine, Ukraine. I mean, nobody has gone through -- and yet I've done more than any President in the first three years in history.
There's no President that's done what we've done with rebuilding the military, the judges. We will be up to almost 300 judges, including to great Supreme Court judges at the end of this term.
So it's really something that's been great, but you need stamina. You need physical health, and you need mental health. And because you have so much fake news, every once in a while, you'd say, first, they'd say, he wants to take over the world. He's going to take over the world. He's a dictator.
The next day, they'll say, he is crazy. The next day, they'll say, oh, he is incompetent. The next day, they'll say something.
So the last time I was at the hospital, probably a year ago, a little less than a year ago, I asked the doctor, I said, is there some kind of a cognitive test that I could take? Because I've been hearing about it. Because I want to shut these people up.
They are fake news. They make up stories. I mean, like, I'll do an interview with you. I didn't say you can't ask me about this. I say ask me anything.
I did one with Chris Wallace. He was nice enough to say. He said, I just want to tell the audience there was no question that's off bounds. Okay. And he's a tough cookie. And it was a good interview. I liked it. I enjoyed it. And it was good.
But I didn't say you can only ask this. You can only -- we have to be sharp. If you're in the office of the presidency. We have to be sharp.
So they were saying all these different things. It was going all over, whichever stuck. None of it stuck, fortunately, but one of the reasons it didn't is that I took a test.
I said to the doctor, it Dr. Ronny Jackson, I said, is there some kind of a test? An acuity test? And he said there actually is and he named it whatever it might be. And it was 30 or 35 questions. The first questions are very easy. The last questions are much more difficult. Like a memory question. It's like you'll go person, woman, man, camera, TV. So they say, could you repeat that?
So I said, yes, I said, person, woman, man, camera, TV. Okay, that's very good. If you get it in order, you get extra points. If you're -- okay, they're always asking you other questions. Other questions, and then 10 minutes, 15, 20 minutes later they'd say, remember the first question, not the first, but the 10th question. Give us that again. Can you do that again? And you go person, woman, man, camera, TV.
If you get it in order, you get extra points. They said, nobody gets it in order. It's actually not that easy. But for me, it was easy. And that's not an easy question.
In other words, they asked you to do -- they give you five names, and you have to repeat them, and that's okay. If you repeat them out of order, it's okay. But, you know, it's not as good.
But then when you go back about 20 to 25 minutes later, and they say go back to that question, then I'll tell you this -- go back to that question and repeat them. Can you do it? And you go, person, woman, man, camera TV. They say that's amazing. How did you do that?
I do it because I have like, a good memory, because I'm cognitively there. Now, Joe should take that test because something is going on. And I say this with respect. I mean, it's going to probably happen to all of us, right? You know, it's going to happen.
But we can't take a chance of it happening when you're dealing with Russia, when you -- and there's nobody that has been tougher to Russia than me. Nobody had been tougher to China than me. I can tell you right now, they would love to see Joe Biden, instead of Trump.
We've taken in billions and billions, tens of billions of dollars from China, which they never gave us anything. They had the worst year before the plague came in, they had the worst year and -- just about in their history, 67 years -- it was the worst year they've had in 67 years before the plague.
And we were doing great. We had the best economy, but we have to have somebody that is sharp. If this person isn't sharp, because I can tell you, President Xi is sharp. President Putin is sharp. Erdogan is sharp.
You don't have any non-sharp people that you're dealing with, and we can't have somebody that's not a hundred percent.
So what I did is when the announce -- when -- you know, it's a public test, and he said, you know, if you take this test, we may have to reveal it. I said, it's all right. I mean, is it tough? Tell me about it. I never heard of it, and I got a perfect mark.
And the doctors were, they said, very few people can do that. Very few people get that. You understand. It's not that easy. There were other questions tougher than what I just did. But it's not that easy.
But as soon as they announced my score, and that test, all the stuff went away about me. Is he competent? Remember, they were talking about 25th Amendment, the nonsense. And they said, wow.
And even the enemies, they don't say that anymore. But they do say it about Joe Biden, and honestly, he should take the test. In a way, it is an obligation, too, because you have to be able to show this country that the person that we're picking as a leader is sharp, because we're dealing with people that want to do very bad things to us if they had the chance, and you'd have to be sharper than them.
So in a certain way, Joe Biden has an obligation to take a test like that one or something else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: There's more to Dr. Siegel's interview with the President. You can catch it on Shannon Bream's show tonight at 11:00 p.m.
Next, new levels of lawlessness in two formerly great cities, Denver and Seattle. Live reports from both after the break.
CARLSON: American forces conquered and recaptured Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone three weeks ago, you may remember, it was a stunning victory. But the spirit of CHOP appears to live on within the government of the City of Seattle.
City politicians have decided to slash Seattle's police force and close the county jail. They have no plan to replace it.
Christopher Rufo broke this story. He's broken a lot of stories recently. He is a Research Fellow at Discovery Institute. He joins us tonight from Seattle.
Mr. Rufo, thanks so much for coming on. So tell me if I misstated those facts. Close the city jail, what would that mean? What's the reason? And what would be the effect?
CHRISTOPHER RUFO, RESEARCH FELLOW, DISCOVERY INSTITUTE: So this is coming on the heels of the City of Seattle working to reduce the police department by 50 percent, and the new proposal is to close the county jail, the largest jail facility in the Seattle metro area and they're really going to reduce the jail bed capacity by 60 percent.
So it's really a multi-front war to destroy law enforcement, to destroy the justice system. They're going to reduce the police force. They're going to shut down the largest jail. And my sources are now telling me, the Municipal Court is next.
CARLSON: The Municipal Court, okay, so we're not just destroying the police, we're also destroying jails and courts. So this is an attack on law. I guess we don't need to guess about the effect. Do we -- what's going to happen?
RUFO: Yes, the facts are actually quite simple. When you have 50 percent fewer officers, when you have 60 percent fewer jail cells, you're going to have a huge increase in crime, and for everything, but the most serious offenses, murder, rape, armed robbery, people are going to be booked and immediately released back on the streets.
So you've destroyed any kind of deterrent for criminal activity. And unfortunately, what happens when you create a void of lawlessness that will be filled very soon with violence, with disorder and with mayhem.
We saw that in a very small scale in the CHAZ/CHOP in the last few months, but we're going to see it on a citywide scale. This is something that is unprecedented. It's never happened before in an American city, but they're going to be plowing forward with this radical agenda to essentially destroy the system of law enforcement as we know it.
CARLSON: And therefore the City of Seattle. I assume, they'll build a new separate jail for people who try to erase BLM graffiti and are held on hate crimes charges.
RUFO: Yes, I don't think so. You know, what's really going to happen is that there's one small jail facility just south of the City of Seattle and they're going to basically say that is the only jail facility we have.
They're eliminating all youth jails. So if you're under 18, there will be no place to go to jail, even for very serious crimes. So it's going to be mayhem.
And my sources within the Criminal Justice System are saying that corrections officers are preparing for mass layoffs. It's total chaos.
And really, this is something that's happened very quickly. As little as four or five weeks ago, a lot of people in the Seattle City Council and in King County were saying we actually need to hire more police officers. We need to add more capacity.
But after the kind of hardcore anarchist and socialist movements started demonstrating in the streets, they've started showing up at the doorsteps of the political leadership. They're running scared. They can't go fast enough to follow the lead of the anarchist and socialist groups that are rioting and what we're seeing is a complete collapse of leadership and it's going to lead in the next few months, I'm afraid to a collapse of law and order, as we've experienced over the last few years.
CARLSON: There are a lot of good people in Seattle, not everyone is crazy. That's true in San Francisco. It's true in Portland. It is true in all of those West Coast cities. There are normal people that have been there for generations and they're all going to leave. It's really, really sad.
Christopher Rufo, thank you for following this. We appreciate it.
So over the weekend, leftwing terrorists -- and they are -- associate with Antifa attacked a pro-police rally, Back the Blue in Denver, Colorado.
Colorado State Representative Patrick Neville spoke at the rally. He joins us tonight. Mr. Neville, thanks so much for coming on.
I read your pre-interview and it made my heart beat fast. I don't know if we have enough time to go through the whole thing, but give us the kind of summary of what you experienced this weekend at this rally.
STATE REP. PATRICK NEVILLE, R-COLO: Well, essentially, we went up there and knowing that it would be dangerous. We actually had some volunteers accompany us from a local gun shop, DCF Guns in my district, myself and Michelle Malkin. And we were essentially surrounded by Antifa.
I mean, we're talking outnumbered four to one. We were actually lower in elevation than the way the facility worked out, and we were completely surrounded. And then before I know it, we were on stage.
Well, behind us, one of my friends was beaten down by four to five Antifa members. The folks that we had there volunteering had to kick those folks off of him and then eventually, we had to actually evacuate and had it not been, quite frankly, for someone who I had met moments before ushering us into her car, I don't know if we would have gotten out of there unscathed.
I mean, meantime, we were pushed around. We were spit on. We had things thrown at us. Michelle Malkin lost one of her shoes. My friend was severely beaten, had a black eye after it was done.
We didn't have a single chance to speak. I mean, the band barely started even playing, and all of this occurred right on the stage of the facility where we were supposed to be having a rally. It wasn't like it was a minor scuffle on the outskirts of the rally. It was right there on the stage.
CARLSON: You're a lawmaker. What country is this? And more to the point, where we're the police? Why wasn't someone protecting you?
NEVILLE: And that is the concern. I mean, I'm the House Republican leader in Colorado, the House Minority Leader, and so if it can happen to me and they can prevent me from speaking, they can really do this to anyone.
And so it's really concerning, because I think the order probably came up to stand down. We had the Police Union Chief out there actually saying there was a stand down order. I don't know if that came from the mayor or even the governor, but we've had a serious problem with complete lawlessness here in Denver, and to the point where you can't even show up to what should be a family friendly Back the Blue rally, a properly permitted rally and we were just totally attacked by thugs committing total violence to try to silence our speech.
CARLSON: You have media outlets in Denver, it's a big city. Did this get any coverage? The violence against you?
NEVILLE: No, in fact, actually, the opposite happened. We had a local anchor here, Kyle Clark, who was tweeting out and basically making fun of the situation and even said there was bonus points for those people who can identify me.
And then on top of that, we just have this total lawlessness that's just creeping into -- it's not just in Denver, it's actually creeping into the suburbs as well.
CARLSON: That's just absolutely horrifying. What about other political leaders in the state? I mean, if they allow a sitting lawmaker to be attacked and driven away, but with violence, I mean, what -- you know, what happens next? And what are they doing about it?
NEVILLE: They're doing nothing about it whatsoever. And so I think we really need to appeal to the President. It's time that we actually have an investigation about what actually happened.
But not only that, I think it's time that we actually have a standard ground law in each state. The police weren't there to protect us. Had it not been for the volunteers that I had from the local gun shop and another state representative who was a former police officer, I don't know if we would have gotten out of there unscathed and we were the lucky ones.
We got out unscathed, but there are many folks that came out with huge gashes, had to go to the ER afterwards. Like I said, a former soldier of mine was stomped on and beaten down and this all occurred right on the stage.
The protesters came up and knocked down microphones, knocked down speakers and I'm not talking just the speakers, but the actual property and pushed and shoved Michelle Malkin and I around and it was a very dangerous situation.
I'm a combat vet. I was a Captain in the Army and this is by far the most dangerous situation I have been in since I've been in combat.
CARLSON: It's so shocking. It's so shocking. The Democratic Party is allowing and is betting this and normal people are going to get very radical if this continues. I hate to say that, but it's true and we all know it's true.
Representative Neville, I'm glad you're okay. I really appreciate you telling your story tonight. Thank you.
NEVILLE: Thank you for having me.
CARLSON: California Governor Gavin Newsom thinks that foreign nationals, people who have no legal right to be in this country or to vote deserve more representation in Congress. We will tell you what exactly he is arguing after the break.
CARLSON: President Trump has told the Census Bureau not to count illegal immigrants for the purpose of apportioning congressional seats. That of course makes sense, why should people who aren't allowed to vote have political power?
But Democrats are yelping about it, illegal immigrants are the key to their power, they hope. That would include the Governor of California Gavin Newsom.
Fox News chief breaking news correspondent, Trace Gallagher has the whole story for us tonight -- Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CHIEF BREAKING NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tucker. In fact, Governor Newsom called it a racist attack on our institutions saying every person should be counted and for clarity, President Trump does want the Commerce Department, which oversees the Census to count all undocumented immigrants.
But the President then wants to remove that information from the apportionment base. In other words, he does not want to use to determine congressional representation, saying, quote, "My administration will not support giving congressional representation to aliens who enter or remain in the country unlawfully, because doing so would create perverse incentives and undermine our system of government."
And because California has the most Members of Congress, it has the most to lose with Governor Newsom responding, quote, "This latest action by the administration to exclude undocumented immigrants when determining representation in Congress rooted in racism and xenophobia is a blatant attack on our institutions and our neighbors."
Now, as for legal challenges, the Supreme Court has never explicitly said whether illegal immigrants must be included in population counts -- Tucker.
CARLSON: I'm sure they will. Trace Gallagher, great to see you.
GALLAGHER: You, too.
CARLSON: Before we go, here's a picture of the producers we sent to the White House today. Senior producer Alex McCaskill; investigative producer Alex Pfeiffer, the one that looks like Pablo Escobar and of course, Dr. Marc Siegel.
The best producers in television. We're proud to have them.
Sean Hannity right now.
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