Trump cracks down on institutions that deal with North Korea

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Trump cracks down on institutions that deal with NKorea

Reaction and analysis on 'The Five' after president signs executive order

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 21, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, and Brian Kilmeade. It is 9 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Tonight, President Trump turns up the heat on North Korea adding economic pressure on top of his fiery military threat. He widened U.S. sanctions today in an effort to further constrict the defiant regimes trade with the outside world.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Today I am announcing a new Executive Order we just signed that significantly expands our authorities to target individuals, companies, financial institutions that finance and facilitate trade with North Korea.

China -- their Central Bank -- has told their other banks, it's a massive banking system to immediately stop doing business with North Korea.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

PERINO: So will it work? Doesn't sound like the north is taking mr. Trump's warnings very seriously. Here is its foreign minister.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

RI YONG HO, FOREIGN MINISTER, NORTH KOREA (through translator): If they thought they could scare us with the sound of a dog barking, that's a silly dream.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

PERINO: Kim Jong-Un also chiming in. According to state news, the mad dictator said, "Today President Trump is deranged and will pay dearly for his threats."

So there is just a lot of bluster there possibly, Jesse. But one thing we did find out today is that after President Trump made those announcements, we did have China tell the Bank of China, "No more dealings with North Korea."

You also had South Korea, Japan, even Russia, Australia all saying that the north has got to stop. So it could be that Kim Jong-Un feels even more isolated than he was.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Bad day for rocketman. I will tell you that much.

PERINO: Rocketman is.

WATTERS: Rocketman is I think a little bit nervous at this point. So these two things, the Executive Order sanctions through Trump and then the Chinese bank action, that's a really powerful one-two punch.

The significance of the Chinese action is twofold. One, you have, I think a huge diplomatic victory for the President. It is shows with his tough rhetoric, by kind of heightening the level of rhetoric is actually scaring some people into taking action.

And it also shows that the Chinese are willing to take a loss in order to curtail their neighbors' behavior. So we still have our cards to play, though.

You can still do ship inspections. You can still do a full fuel ban. You can still slap travel bans on the rocketman. I do not know where he's going. We could financial sanctions against him. Wine and cheese import restrictions that would really turn the screws to him.

But the key point is, is that the democrats taking shots at the President for this dark and dangerous U.N. speech look foolish because our Asian partners -- the Japanese and the South Koreans -- came out today and said that the.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: They liked it.

WATTERS: . U.N. speech was strong and effective. So I think now, it's time for America to speak with one voice when it comes to North Korea.

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: California is in the cross hairs. It doesn't make any sense to talk -- the time for talk is over.

And I looked at opinion polls today. Fifty eight percent of Americans believe that if economic sanctions do not work, they will support military action but a majority of Americans also believe that the North Koreans are bluffing.

So there's still a little runway left.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Do you know, what I can't get over? That guy called our President a dotard.

WATTERS: What is a dotard?

WILLIAMS: Well, apparently, it is someone who is elderly and someone who is feeble of mind.

WATTERS: How dare you.

PERINO: Wow. We need to get out the thesaurus over there in North Korea.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I know. Nice preparation, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, I was shocked, but first of all, I think I know American U.S. English pretty well.

WATTERS: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I never heard of dotard.

WATTERS: Dotard.

WILLIAMS: I thought it was a play on words that he did not understand, but actually it is a word.

WATTERS: We might get lost in translation.

PERINO: The other, Kimberly is that, when Kim Jong-Un says that this is just a dog that is barking. The truth is that the dog also can bite if it has to.

Let's take a listen to H.R. McMaster and get your thoughts on that.

GUILFOYLE: Okay.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

MATT LAUER, THE TODAY SHOW, HOST: What would be the definition of being forced to defend ourselves?

HERBERT RAYMOND MCMASTER, LIEUTENANT GENERAL, UNITED STATES ARMY: Attacks on us or our allies.

ANCHOR: An actual attack?

MCMASTER: Of course. Of course.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

PERINO: And I'm curious about that because what are we going to define as an attack?

GUILFOYLE: On us or on an ally, right? So that has to be something that needs to be delineated because it is a very good question because it could be far more encompassing and is it something that they are going to put down in writing and be specific about ahead of time to kind of set a bright line rule. I do want to say a red line and then determine or are they going to determine after that in fact this is someone that we consider in this particular scenario to be an ally of the United States?

One would assume South Korea and given the presence of U.S. troops there as well as the military that is obviously something that we would react very swiftly to and with fire and fury as the President has stated.

But I really like just circling back to the sanctions. I think that this was an important economic step to put a little bit of a bite on North Korea and let them know and it was also an opportunity for coalition building with other countries to support the U.S. in this regard and to protect the United States so if people won't say that the President acted with impulsivity or recklessness that he sought some consensus that he tried to go through the normal diplomatic means by putting in the sanctions, trying to have talks until we have exhausted all reasonable measures and then are either forced to defend ourselves or an ally.

BRIAN KILMEADE, GUEST CO-HOST: A couple of things stand out for me. Number one is the President is getting very good at letting other people convey his policy.

So if Matt Lauer doesn't really think he should be President or says what is this businessman know? Well, are you have got to say that to H.R. McMaster, an active general?

If you don't like our diplomatic approach, well, Ambassador Haley is right in front of you willing to defend it. If you are not happy with the way the sanctions are being put out, what does President Trump know? You have Steven Mnuchin to say this is exactly what we are doing.

So he's orchestrating, putting people out there. When it comes to taxes, of course, you've got a great OMB director, I think who knows his stuff backwards and forwards.

The thing that I think is important is, the President is doing something that's hard. He is putting in a lot of time. How long did he talk to the Chinese leader? Close to an hour.

How many times did he talk to Abe of Japan? Over and over. He is the most active person. Now, Moon is the South Korean leader and he is liberal, and everyone said, "Wait a second, they are not going to get along," and he sat down here today and says, I've really gotten to know President Trump. I don't have the translation, but I will give the paraphrase. We've talked so much, so often.

And the next thing you know, he put in the time and he is getting some results.

A lot of times, you would think a new politician who is used to instant gratification -- who is CEO of his own company with his name on his building, you go like, "Why do we have to call this guy again? Ii just spoke to him." But he is doing it.

PERINO: It is interesting, Jesse because -- so President Trump has not been in New York this many days in a row since before the inauguration. It is a lot of time. Most presidents kind of complain.

You didn't hear any of that even behind the scenes. And so it seems to me, it was time well spent because President Trump is going to need to pick up the phone and call these leaders and I think that having that personal relationship, the one-on-one especially with him means a lot.

WATTERS: Maybe Moon can him what dotard means.

KILMEADE: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: North to south, he could help us.

WILLIAMS: Help out.

WATTERS: The President, he has always been criticized for being this cowboy that doesn't understand politics. Yet, I think in the first seven months of this administration, he's established strong, diplomatic and personal relationships with a lot of these world leaders.

Not just our Asian partners too, but in Europe, Macron over in Paris and you have May who we just were speaking to. President Obama really wasn't a people person on the world stage.

I don't remember one leader that even comes to mind who I could say, "You know, President Obama really formed a bond with this guy."

PERINO: Yes, that's my favorite talk to a party question.

WATTERS: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Name his best friend on the world stage?

WATTERS: Crickets. But it looks like the President because of background in business has really been able to you know, form.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But let me get this straight, I don't think -- I just wanted to say, there is a different view, I think available and it comes not only from liberals, but conservatives of what has been going on here because if you look at what the Chinese said in response to what the President has done -- they said his language so far, not helpful.

The Russians said, this is engaging in military hysterics. And they don't see this as promoting.

South Korea -- South Korea continues to offer humanitarian aid. Millions of dollars to the North Koreans. Again, that would seem in defiance of what President Trump is talking about, which is cut them off.

WATTERS: No, it wouldn't.

WILLIAMS: The President though, I think has twice big victories in terms of the unanimous decision on an embargo coming out of the U.N. Security Council.

KILMEADE: Plus about a billion dollars of their company, they will sanction.

WILLIAMS: They could, but what Rex Tillerson -- I think that the North Koreans have shown a tremendous history of powerfully evading sanctions, making them worthless.

But Tillerson said today, he thinks there are already a fuel shortage taking place in North Korea and he thinks we are starting to see some impact.

But the bottom line to me is, when you get involved in the name calling, when you start to call people names and then they are calling you names -- it sounds like you're giving up the moral superior point.

KILMEADE: Right.

WILLIAMS: And I think for a lot of people now, they are saying, "Well, you know what? Guess what, I think that the President of the United States saying I am going to totally destroy your country is going to be played over and over and over again on North Korean TV.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: But you know in an interview with President Obama, he said the same thing and Juan, your points are good except for this. He has tried everything.

I mean, do you remember like about a month and a half ago, he came out and said, "You know I respect this 35-year-old, it's not so easy to take over a country with all of these elder leaders with a lot of people trying to kill you."

And I was like, "Are you crazy? Why are you giving him deference?" He tried that for a while. More rockets and he goes, "I am going to try something else."

WILLIAMS: Yes.

KILMEADE: Rocketman.

WILLIAMS: Okay. So if asked you, Brian, has fire and fury somehow strategically deterred this man? Answer: no.

WATTERS: Wait a second, I would see all these brutal sanctions that are being levied on North Korea -- especially this new Chinese bank action as major progress in deterring their threats.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PERINO: And perhaps, it could have a different effect. Maybe, he will actually act and maybe we would find that he was irrational.

But Kim, I wanted to ask you one last thing so throughout this entire week, we are talking all foreign policy and we were talking complete diplomacy.

Brian is right, the President is utilizing his Cabinet and his people to go out and talk on his behalf, but you know who wasn't here? The military.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: Even though I think that there is complete coordination, what the administration was showing this week visibly for all to see was an absolute diplomatic push. There were no military angles.

KILMEADE: You know, they used to wear -- you know Mattis used to wear a uniform and McMaster used to wear a uniform.

GUILFOYLE: They thought that the -- implying the whole like rocketman term wasn't enough, they didn't need to bring mad dog into the mix to just start up, so they had H.R. McMaster. Yes, you are absolutely right.

I think that was a good point. I think it was strategic and I am sure that it was purposeful

PERINO: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: It sends -- really?

PERINO: I don't know if it was purposeful. I just think it was to me, striking and if it wasn't purposeful, it was brilliant.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: But if you say to someone.

GUILFOYLE: Play your best players and put them out there to say this is his area, this is his area of expertise and it is like utilizing you know, you are like five to make sure.

I don't know, I think it was good.

WILLIAMS: But if you say totally destroy, I think people think, "Oh, my god..."

PERINO: In retaliation, if you do understand, I think.

WILLIAMS: Well, I have never heard such language from the President of the United States. Totally destroy?

PERINO: He said, he'd qualify.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: We've never had a President like this, so get used to it.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You got that right.

PERINO: But also, you have never been facing a country like North Korea that actually now has.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: We have run out of road.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think President Trump is upset about dotard because he is like, "That's not a good nick."

PERINO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I don't know. It sounds a lot like retard.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: All right, we have got to run. A stunning new unmasking discovery involving another one of President Obama's top aid, that's next on The Five.

GUILFOYLE: And to a shocking and new Fox News report on the Obama administration's widening surveillance scandal involving the unmasking of Trump team personnel.

We are learning the former President's Ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power made hundreds of unmasking requests right up until the inauguration.

They shake out to be nearly one request per working day. This news comes after former National Security Advisor, Susan Rice told house investigators, she unmasked senior Trump officials.

Meanwhile, President Obama's own former intelligence chief just lends even more credibility to Mr. Trump's accusation that his predecessor had him wiretapped.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

DON LEMON, CNN, ANCHOR: Is it possible, the President was picked up in a conversation with Paul Manafort.

JAMES KLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: It is certainly conceivable.

LEMON: Is it likely?

KLAPPER: I can't say. I wouldn't want to go there, but I will say it is possible.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

GUILFOYLE: All right, that was some of the more interesting news to come out of the news cycle today, Dana because we've been in discussion about this and talking about the role of Paul Manafort prior to joining the administration, during the campaign, what he knew when, and the scope of the investigation and perhaps indictment that could be impending.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: But it sounds like the President has got a problem.

PERINO: The unmasking question will be still be a part of the Mueller investigation. So it will be interesting to find out. I talked to somebody who used to work at the NSC during the Bush administration and a career official and I said, "Would there ever have been any reason to unmask that many Americans?" And he said, "Never." it never would it have occurred to him that somebody would have done that."

So I do feel like Samantha Power and the Obama administration officials that allowed the unmasking to happen have an obligation to explain to the American people why it was necessary and what they were doing.

Even though they are not in power anymore, I think that this question needs to be answered and apparently, her lawyer said she will answer it in a closed session in a hearing next month with Congress.

When it comes though to this question about the wiretapping, it's like if Jesse is being wiretapped because he's got some funny business going on.

GUILFOYLE: And I called Jesse.

WATTERS: Conceivable.

WILLIAMS: As would I.

PERINO: And I am picked up talking to Jesse, you can't then say that I was wiretapped too. I was picked up in a conversation with a person being wiretapped and I think there's a distinction there that the FBI or the.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yes, most likely it would include them.

KILMEADE: Think about this.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

KILMEADE: We are learning more and more what Devin Nunes saw that day when he walked in and saw it and he said, "Oh my goodness. This is unbelievable. Who can I tell? How do I relay it?"

And obviously, he could have done a better job or else he would still be in charge of the investigation. He says that the committee has learned that there was a request for hundreds of unmasking. It had to be Susan Power, by somebody who doesn't have an intelligence portfolio.

There is no reason Susan Powes should be doing that.

PERINO: Samantha.

KILMEADE: Yes, Samantha Power or Susan Power, yes, I mean, I'd be super powers with a 1970 sitcom star, but there's more on that later.

The other thing is, what did Jim Klapper do? I believe he is honestly saying, "I had no idea the Samantha Power thing was happening." "I had no idea the Susan Rice thing was happening."

You are the Director of National Intelligence. He looks exhausted every time they go to him on camera. Can you imagine when he wasn't on camera? We either have got to get rid of that position or he should give the money back that he took during those eight years.

WILLIAMS: You know, I just think this is so unfair. First, with regards to Jim Klapper. Jim Klapper's job was Director of National Intelligence.

KILMEADE: Sure, we know that.

WILLIAMS: That's like saying President Trump should know everything that's going on in the U.S. government.

KILMEADE: He said he.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: He told Chuck.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He would know it if it happened.

KILMEADE: He said.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He would know what?

KILMEADE: He would know about the unmasking.

WILLIAMS: That's right, but what.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: So what happened? Then he didn't know.

PERINO: And he forgot it.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: . what unmasking -- first of all, let's be very clear and I think it's necessary just to be straight about this. Unmasking is not an unusual activity in the United States government.

The intelligence agencies regularly unmask people when they have a request.

GUILFOYLE: But it has to be very a good reason.

WILLIAMS: And then you said, "Oh Samantha power had no reason for this." Guess what? Samantha Power is part of a National Security Council. So she has an interest in studying and being aware of any threat to American security.

And of course the context is guess what? There was Russian interference in the 2016 election. There were lots of people looking at Manafort.

KILMEADE: Oh, interested after the wrong person, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, that's not true.

KILMEADE: That's it.

WILLIAMS: What are you making me mad for?

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: That's it. (INAUDIBLE), this all came out after he won the elections.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say -- this is why. Manafort, in fact they had various requests to the FISA courts back to 2014 on Manafort and then coming forward again.

KILMEADE: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: . in 2016, so what.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: Right, and they exonerated him in 2014.

WILLIAMS: So what is not right, Brian?

KILMEADE: No, but that's one. This is hundreds of requests.

WILLIAMS: No, these are.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: And most of them came after November.

GUILFOYLE: What he is saying is the sheer volume. They are voluminous in nature and therefore, it's not like you needed one or two, but this amounts to one for every working day.

So the sheer volume.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Nobody is saying that this is illegal. Nobody is accusing her for illegal activity. Nobody is saying this is political. What is the.

(CROSSTALK)

KILMEADE: We will find out.

WILLIAMS: . is a dodge to get away from Trump's trouble and that's what got Nunes in trouble.

KILMEADE: We will found out. We are about to find out.

WATTERS: To actually clarify what you said, Juan, because you need some help, for years, the U.N. Ambassador John Bolton made ten unmasking requests. In one year, U.N. Ambassador Samantha Power made 210, doesn't seem normal.

But listen to how the story is.

WILLIAMS: Neither is Russian interference in the 2016 election.

WATTERS: Listen to how the stories are changing. First, I don't know anything about unmasking.

WILLIAMS: Never happened.

WATTERS: Then, oh, we unmasked.

WILLIAMS: Who was like this?

WATTERS: Susan Rice. Then we unmasked, but we never did it for political purposes.

And then, oh you know what? We unmasked Trump people. And then, oh 200 people were unmasked during the election. It is funny. Also the wiretapping story changed too.

First, no wiretapping ever happened. Then, oh you know what? Maybe an apartment in Trump Tower was wiretapped. And now? Oh maybe a conversation with President Trump was wiretapped.

Everything keeps changing.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: No, it's your analogy. I agree with that.

GUILFOYLE: But it might have been caught in a collection.

WATTERS: Trump was picked up on a surveillance team.

GUILFOYLE: But not the target. WATTERS: That happened allegedly according to CNN, it could be fake news.

KILMEADE: I'm going to hold my breath until Dana talks.

WILLIAMS: But do you think that there is an -- do you understand.

GUILFOYLE: We could be here a while. I am beginning.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: In fact, Manafort rented an apartment in Trump Towers. So it wasn't that they were going after Trump Tower, they were going after Manafort.

WATTERS: I agree, but when Trump says, "My wires were tapped," that's his building.

PERINO: Well, and all of that could be true and it will be a relief when Mueller finalizes this investigation and we get all the information so we can stop speculating because we actually have no idea.

GUILFOYLE: Right and while they are conducting the investigation to get to the bottom of it and as the news develops and breaks, we will get it to you.

WILLIAMS: Yes, what about the Justice Department run by President Trump's own Attorney General was saying, "No evidence that President Obama wiretapped Donald Trump."

KILMEADE: What about Trey Gowdy's question when he said to John Brannon, "Did anyone wiretap anyone? May be a day or two before you left?"

He seemed to not have a vague memory of this. How do these people know to ask these questions? Because somebody is going to have to tie this all together.

WATTERS: But I don't think Comey has a lot of credibility left either.

WILLIAMS: No, but it is Donald Trump and his lawyers trying to make sure everybody is looking at this hand. Don't pay attention to the troubles back here, folks.

GUILFOYLE: Okay.

KILMEADE: Just somebody tell the truth. That's all we ask.

GUILFOYLE: That's all we ask. Straight ahead, the healthcare feud heats up between a late-night host and a senator spearheading the new effort to repeal Obamacare. Stay right there.

WATTERS: Republican leaders are trying to nail down the final votes needed to pass a new bill to repeal Obamacare. Vice President Pence says it could be the last hope.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We really do believe that this may well be our last best chance to stop and turn around and head America back in the direction of the kind of healthcare reform that is based on individual choice, state-based innovations and the President and I are determined to do all that we can to see this through.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

WATTERS: Last night Jimmy Kimmel doubled down on his attacks on one of the cosponsors of the legislation -- Bill Cassidy.

He calls the Senator a liar for saying on his show he would not support a plan that doesn't guarantee coverage for those with pre-existing conditions.

Cassidy fired back again.

(VIDEO CLIP BEGINS)

SEN. WILLIAM CASSIDY, (R), LOUISIANA: I actually wish that Jimmy would actually maybe hear my perspective and not -- I apologize if I offended him, but I didn't intend to.

For example, he says that we only -- you know, we kick everybody off the program in ten years. In Washington, you have to reauthorize a program. The people that want to keep Obamacare keep putting this misinformation out.

(VIDEO CLIP ENDS)

WATTERS: Kimberly, it looks like Cassidy and Kimmel are talking across each other. No one is really connecting. It doesn't make any sense.

KILMEADE: Well, I mean that is why our approach over the last three days on Fox and Friends and even on the radio show has been, "Okay, this is what Cassidy says, this is what Jimmy Kimmel says."

Sadly, no one in the Democratic Party specifically is taking on this bill except for Jimmy Kimmel.

WATTERS: That's right.

KILMEADE: So if you listen to what Jimmy Kimmel says, if he's telling the truth, he's right. But if Cassidy who wrote the program is telling the truth, who was this great reputation as does Senator Lindsey Graham, he disputes every one of them.

But for some reason, even though they spoke on the line. They have each other's cellphone, Cassidy and Kimmel don't speak. Now, tonight I'm sure Jimmy Kimmel is going to answer again and Cassidy answered on Martha show at 7:00 today. So this is going to continue to happen. Where are the facts in this conversation? The fact is, he had this terrible thing happened with his son. He going to need a few more operations. He is obviously very emotional as everybody else would be. No one wants to offend Jimmy Kimmel but at the same time, he should go on and have Cassidy on as a guest and debate it.

WILLIAMS: The facts are out there.

KILMEADE: Who is right just now?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely Jimmy Kimmel is right. There is no question. If you look at the Cassidy-Graham bill. What it says about pre-existing conditions is we have no requirement -- it devolves to the state. The state has to assure it, that they will have some provision but given the amount of funding, there's no guarantee that in fact people with pre- existing conditions will be covered. And there is a cap with Medicaid spending. There's no debate here.

KILMEADE: There is a demand to cover pre-existing conditions with the money required the ghost of the state and it says it has to be --

WILLIAMS: No, it says that they can describe --

KILMEADE: Senator Graham lied?

WILLIAMS: I think somebody's lying to you. At the state level, you can set the price for coverage of pre-existing conditions and obviously that can be beyond the means of people who have these conditions. That is different than Obamacare. This to me is again, all about Republicans saying we need a victory. We just want a repeal and replace, we know we are getting hammered by the base for not doing it because as Kimberly pointed out, got the house and the senate. Why do we get rid of it? You guys that are complaining, take this. Get out of here.

WATTERS: Juan, you don't have a lot of legs to stand on. Obamacare imploded.

WILLIAMS: 60 percent of American stand with me, not you, Jesse.

WATTERS: But the polls don't matter on this.

WILLIAMS: I know.

GUILFOYLE: Not on "Watters' world," they'll swim with him.

WATTERS: Is Kimmel winning this, is Cassidy winning this? Who is looking good? Would you advise Cassidy to back off -- back off or go on his show? How do you play this?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I want to give either one of them advice. I think healthy debate is always good. If it gets people talking about the issues and then narrows down to some of the specifics and actual facts. The problem is there have been a lot of conflicting and confusing information out there. You also see there's conflict with even the Republican Party. Five governors don't want to manage statement health care. They have an issue with that. People are very adamant and stand on principle to say they would like to repeal the whole thing like Senator Rand Paul, because he feels it's not sufficient. When you think of it as a P.R. perspective from the Republican, if they take Obamacare and they start tinkering with it and doing the Frankenstein thing -- they are going to own it and its going to be very tricky. In terms of trying to make sure it's more affordable. I feel very strongly that it definitely needs an expansion for the free market and make it more affordable for the individuals, the single moms, truck drivers, people out there that are forced into limited choices at exorbitant rates. I do want to do better. I do think that both sides would like to see some fortuitous outcome.

KILMEADE: Right, that is what both sides want.

PERINO: I think that if I were on the Republican side in house or senate I would pull back up and do a bigger picture thing. They are trying to do something different that prevents us from having to slide into Medicare for all. One is correct, you approval ratings for Obamacare are like 60 percent. The disapproval of Medicare for all is much higher than that. What they are trying to do is say we need a competition for ideas. Looking for different ways for different states to deal with things. I talked with Senator that thinks if it has a 50/50 chance of passing and Lisa Murkowski for example in Alaska, might be getting a different deal. A very real state with a lot of Native American are there, they are spread out over a vast area. Should Alaska be able to have a different program than New York, Florida, Ohio? The way we are set up in the United States of America, the answer should be yes. If you think there is not rationing in a socialized medicine system, you are wrong.

KILMEADE: Go to England.

PERINO: There are different systems that do some things very well. It's super expensive. We should have an honest conversation about how much we are willing to pay.

WATTERS: We are having an honest conversation here. Coming up, rock star Bono has a few choice words for President Trump, the attacks from the left continue up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: U2 front man Bono was just interviewed by Rolling Stone and it did not have nice things to say about President Trump. "I always believe in working across the aisle but there is a bully on the bully pulpit and silence is not an option." He also says his band delayed their latest album because the President disrupted the "moral arc of the universe." picking up on a doctor king quote with the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice and the like.

GUILFOYLE: He quoted Dr. King and the number of his songs. When I think? Personally, I like Bono very much. He is done a lot of humanitarian work and efforts that I strongly admire. He is entitled to his own opinion. Regarding the President, I don't think the President has destroyed the moral arc of the universe or compromised it to where you should not leak in album.

KILMEADE: Even Hillary Clinton will dial it back a little.

GUILFOYLE: The worst idea that ever happened to America --

KILMEADE: he just said, Donald Trump is potentially the worst idea that ever happen to America. Conservatives found out innocence was lost, he told Charlie Rose. Isn't there any Irish politics he could discuss? I mean, why is he diving so much --

PERINO: Irish politics don't matter.

WATTERS: Send her a letter.

PERINO: I mean, to Irish politics actually matter to the world? Responded to the leader of the free world -- I would say his criticism is fairly mild compared to other people in Hollywood. Severing off Donald Trump heads and posting pictures with them.

KILMEADE: I just think that he is putting himself way out there in commenting, because people want to buy music, they don't want to talk about politics. If I were the producer of his album, I would be so mad at him. I would be so upset because the minute you call out half America like Jennifer Lawrence says -- she told 50 percent of America don't go watch my movie.

PERINO: And guess what? They didn't.

KILMEADE: Why would bono do that?

WATTERS: The big picture though is the left wants to talk to rocket man. They don't want to talk to President Trump. Come on, guys.

PERINO: Maybe Nancy.

WATTERS: It is true. What will happen with Nancy? Nancy talks to him and she gets bombarded by the left. Ellen won't have Trump on the show because she does not want to validate him, but Chelsea Handler says she will never talk to the first lady because she has an accent? Jimmy fallon tussled President Trump's hair and he got criticized for humanizing him. Spicer was on the Emmys and he had a Chuckle with the liberals and they all said no, you can't normalize a like that. It's crazy but the reason why this happens, is because the, this haters, they defined themselves by how much they hate Trump. And if they talk to Trump. That makes Trump look not a monster. He is a human being.

GUILFOYLE: A lot of these people --

WATTERS: He such a good negotiator. Once that happens, they no longer can hate the man and they can't raise money off of him and defined themselves by who you are.

WILLIAMS: You doubt their sincerity?

WATTERS: You know they reach out to Castro and they want to talk to the Iranians. They want to talk to Chavez.

WILLIAMS: Dana, let me come to you specifically --

GUILFOYLE: They are going to raise the debt.

WILLIAMS: Let me come to specifically about Bono, because he says that he is upset about the return of hard right views. It is to be tolerated. He talks about, for example, jingoism, fervor referred Trump's verbiage reminded us that we are not dreaming if we thought evolution applied to political consciousness, democracy is just a blipping history and it requires a lot of focus to maintain our Democratic institution.

KILMEADE: Thank you. We needed that insight.

WILLIAMS: Apparently he does not think that Donald Trump is doing it.

PERINO: here is a thing also, I think -- let's just talk about one of the issues that Bono cares a lot about which is antipoverty efforts. This interview was given before the U.N.G.A speech this week. President Trump, the one she had with African leaders was well received. In his speech he talked about the President's emergency plan for aids relief and the president's malaria initiative to programs that brought Bono and George W. Bush together for a good friendship. I'm not saying Trump and Bono are necessarily going to be friends but I do think that if they could give him a little bit of a chance and let him get through the first year, yes they might have hated the campaign rhetoric. Some of us did. I don't like any of the nicknames for Americans like rocket man, fine. I get that. If they can look at some of the actions -- he pushed up the money for the humanitarian aid in Africa when it comes to the food aid. He is sending Nikki Haley to Africa next month in order to try to work on conflict resolution. If you look at the actual actions of what he is doing -- he doesn't care about gay marriage. They might have problems with the transgender thing, but Madison says he is going to take care of that. I just think, to say we are going back to the far right social issues of the 1980s is so wrong. It's demonstrably false.

WILLIAMS: This is the problem and do you know what? He doesn't deserve to be called a dotard. It's before it right, not at all.

KILMEADE: You cannot teach that.

WILLIAMS: Dotard?

PERINO: Dotard. Right.

WILLIAMS: Not like re-tard? I come for Dana's help every night. Coming up. Melania Trump speaks in an anti-bullying rally, but guess what she gets bullied, cyber bullied herself. Details, next.

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KILMEADE: Right. We used to move like Jagger and then that loud noise habit. This is an unbelievable story. Melania Trump finds herself relentlessly mocked about her appearance online. Get this, delivering a speech yesterday to the U.N. General Assembly on the dangers of cyberbullying. Is this hypocrisy or what? I'm not going to read some of the things that popped up on twitter, but you would all find it offensive. Looking at the address right now, I would say that it's fashion forward, Kimberly. That is something I would not design. But I don't design dresses. If you watch her walk, the dress fits form perfect. Behind the podium, it's a little different.

GUILFOYLE: I guess is not about the dress, it's about the principle. If this was Michelle Obama who I think just beautifully, no one would be making any comment. A couple months ago we were reveling and saying how wonderful Melania Trump looked and how well she represented the country on the President's first overseas visit and then all of a sudden, the honeymoon is over. The comments are on her shoes. She had heels on when she should have had sneakers and now they are not embracing this outfit. I don't know, you can't please people in the irony of it -- it's supposed to be about cyberbullying in people taking to the internet and cyberbullying.

KILMEADE: She is one of the most beautiful women you will ever see in your life. How could you possibly even comment on anything like that? $3,000, this dress cost. Are you surprise on the backlash or no?

PERINO: Well I am not exactly but I do remember when Michelle Obama wore a very expensive dresses of -- went Michelle Obama wore very expensive dresses. She got a pass and she should. First ladies really should. The Trump's don't hide their wealth. She is a fashion model. Someone who is 5 feet tall and could never wear that dress, I really admire her.

KILMEADE: Jesse, you really don't hide your wealth either.

WATTERS: Yeah, I flaunt it. I will say I think bullying is a little bit strong. I don't think people that write a comment on twitter about someone's dress is bullying. Bullying the first lady. I don't think Trump retreating a funny video of him body slamming CNN is bullying either.

KILMEADE: It was just a logo, not a person. Juan, do you feel different down Jesse? Do you feel this is bullying?

WILLIAMS: If Jesse was in the dress, I would not believe him.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I went.

WILLIAMS: I will leave you alone. I'm going to explain it. We get along on this LGBTQ whatever thing. If you're going to dress like that, that is your thing. I'm going to stay out of your business.

(LAUGHTER)

KILMEADE: I thought it was a great dress.

WILLIAMS: Are you kidding me? Let's be nice. She is gorgeous and Kimberly tells me she is a wonderful person. That was a strange looking dress. You didn't think that was unusual?

WATTERS: Didn't want just say that is a strange looking dress?

WILLIAMS: That is not the point. Her husband bullies people and she --

GUILFOYLE: The content of her curves.

KILMEADE: "One more thing" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Time now for "One more thing." K.G.

GUILFOYLE: It is a sweet story that will tug at your heartstrings, because we think of all the damage and devastation that happen from hurricane Irma relief, when the rescuers were going in, they got startled when a tiny sea bear jumped out and they saw the deer was not in good shape. It was very thirsty. There hadn't been freshwater. He drank four bottles of water. Poor little guy. I think.

PERINO: Is not a guy?

GUILFOYLE: It was very sweet. We loved this video.

PERINO: Jesse, can you top that?

WATTERS: Definitely. The marine corps is going to have the first female infantry officer ever. Do know how they go through this ridiculously tough course? It is a three week combat exercise. A bunch of women have already tried it and none of them made it until one woman succeed in finishing this thing. She is now expected to lead up the platoon in about 40 infantry marines. And in an area that really has an integrated. Congratulations to her. They don't have her name out there yet. For security purposes. This is the hardest course to do ever. She did it. Congratulations.

PERINO: And we can't even name her. I'm sure she watches "The Five." I have the most epic "One more thing" ever despite what Brian is going to tell you, because as you know, I have some favorite things in the world. One is George W. Bush in the other is George Bentley. Last night, they met in Missouri. Brian got cut out of the picture but we don't care about him. I like him and all but this was one of my world collided. He told the President that I am his biggest fan in the President said well he is my biggest fan? All my favorite guys together.

WATTERS: Where am I?

PERINO: You are on probation. Awesome. Best "One more thing" ever. I am done. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Jake Lamotta the raging bull of boxing died this week at 95. His story came to life in the movie "Raging Bull" Jake Lamotta was played by Robert De Niro, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake Lamotta comes out of the ring once again. To the left. He was down for the second time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: My dad was a boxing trainer and among the fight crowd, Lamotta, what I heard was that he was considered not quite a boxing craftsman but from his low crouch, no one ever fought with the kind of storming passion that he managed. He got a record of 83 wins. Wow. Only 19 losses. 30 of the wins by knockout. Jake, your life was a knockout.

PERINO: And he lost two sons in his life.

KILMEADE: They played all his fights on ESPN too and you realize how great his boxing was. Nonstop punching. The shape they were in was phenomenal. Get ready for this. If you have a best friend and you are growing up now in England or Europe or America, you will be forced to leave the best friend, because best friends are not allowed in private schools because teachers and schoolmasters say they want to be a student body of inclusion. They are looking to prevent anyone from excluding you. They are going to stop kids from having a best friend. They will not let you repeat the grade with the same people. They are making you spread out. If you have a birthday Party and don't invite the whole class you cannot have the birthday Party. It's happening. Best friends are not allowed. If you see your child very close to your neighbor, do the right thing and get them away from each other.

GUILFOYLE: Now you have to invite everyone in the class if you have a Party. School rules. I always did that anyway. Growing up myself. I did want to exclude anybody. I understand.

WATTERS: Who is was better? Dana's or Brian's?

KILMEADE: I'm going to give it to Dana.

PERINO: If you put those four people in one photograph? Three people and a dog. This my last show but I will be back on Monday at 5 o'clock. Set your DVRs never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.

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