The ObamaCare deceit: Why Jonathan Gruber matters

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 13, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Mr. Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, you know, it's "The Five."

So, you all know about the big hoax of Jonathan Gruber video. You know he admitted what the Obama administration really believed. The Americans are too stupid to understand Obamacare, so let's deceive them about what's in it. The video surface, Gruber said he misspoke, he didn't really mean it. But then we found the second video and a third and number four came out today.


BOLLING: The big hoax caught on tape, Obama's architect, busted, which brings us to today, when Nancy Pelosi pretended, today, she never heard of him.


NANCY PELOSI, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I've been commenting on what was going on when we were writing the bill, who has -- withdrawn some of it, the statements that he made. So, let's put him aside.


BOLLING: OK. At the beginning of that sound bite she said she mentioned Jonathan Gruber. Fair enough. She didn't know him. But then how do you explain this? She quoted him on her Web site, maybe a different MIT professor named Jonathan Gruber, perhaps. Or maybe an aide posted that to her web. And also, how do you explain this, madam former speaker?


PELOSI: I don't know if you have seen Jonathan Gruber's MIT's analysis of the -- what the comparison is to the status quo versus what will happen in our bill. But those who seek insurance within the exchange and our bill takes down those costs.


BOLLING: So, Gruber thinks that Americans are stupid. Nancy Pelosi thinks we're really, really stupid. Now Bob, I have to start with you because, for God's sake the madam former speaker today said she -- nah, he wasn't part of the bill, I don't know who he is. Yet, he was on her Web site and she spoke about him in 2009.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, Nancy has tends to forget some things and my guess is that congress to write most of this, but can this -- can I have 32 second?

BOLLING: I don't know. Let's talk about.

BECKEL: Wait. Can I have 32 seconds?

BOLLING: They don't know yet, they absolutely talked about that.

BECKEL: Can I have 32 seconds, that's all I ask. That's all I ask.

BOLLING: About Nancy Pelosi and Democrats lying about Obamacare.

BECKEL: No. About, about, about Obamacare, I'm not lying to that.

BOLLING: We'll get to that in a second.

BECKEL: Oh, I see. I get cut off again. Is that right?


BOLLING: If we don't want the go through the Obamacare numbers right now.

BECKEL: Of course they don't and say too good.

BOLLING: Alright. K.G. -- it's a pattern.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'm sorry to tell you, Eric.


GUILFOYLE: If he's not on her Christmas card list then she really doesn't know him, OK? Here's the deal, it's obvious that they made a mess of this, that they know him. That he was an architect. That he was involved in it, there's numerous accounts now. The facts are in. You do not have to be a math major of MIT to figure this out, because Americans aren't stupid.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts of how this thing is -- I can't see what she went to the podium today and said I don't know him.

PERINO: Well, they do have a tendency to say things that are just proven false within 30 seconds just to do a Google search. I don't know whether they're just the staff doesn't serve them well or the principles like Nancy Pelosi don't listen to staff. They also don't seem to protect themselves very much and plus, they're trying to deal with -- they're not dealing with the heart of the matter, which is -- the fact that this has been -- it wasn't an offhand remark by Gruber, it is a state of mind. And now we're dealing with the aftermath of it. It's curious why the Democrats don't try to replace some of the leadership, because that is not -- but today's press conference and what Nancy Pelosi did, that's actually -- this is a common occurrence now. You expect this in every press conference but, they all won -- every leadership member won re-election today by their members.

BOLLING: I can't believe she says this.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: No, you have to understand that what - - who you, who you are talking to now are the people that already pulled off the heist.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: They -- it's like interviewing D. B. Cooper who's on his island wherever he is. They already got the bill across. They don't care. And if you are talking -- it was the media doesn't care because they're the accomplices. They're the guys that drove the car that was able to get to spirit Obamacare to safety. So now, that they -- now that we've caught them and we knew that they were lying, to them it's hilarious to them and even more so, when they see that we are like, upset about it. They point to that as Republican vitriol as now it's like stupid that she would be upset that you were caught.

PERINO: You see The Washington Post headline is that health care law opponents riled anew.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes. It looks.

PERINO: By stupidity video.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

BOLLING: Let me follow up on that because, it's amazing that you are 100 percent right. We are hearing about it. Bob, we'll get to you in a second. We're hearing about it, but you're only hearing about it if you're watching Fox. Fox has been telling you about the video, but what about the mainstream media? Let's take a look at the facts. Evening news broadcasts. Nightly news, NBC zero, ABC zero, CBS zero. How about the morning shows? Look at that, CBS zero -- I'm sorry, CBS one today, NBC and ABC is zero each. So, of all the news cast, of all the mainstream media news cast, you only get it one. Bob, you want to comment on this?

BECKEL: Can I just comment on --

BOLLING: No, no. Stay on the mainstream media.

BECKEL: No, no, no. Dana said it was a failure. She said it was a failure. Can I just make a point?

BOLLING: Failure to show --

BECKEL: You know this is the problem here, because I don't -- I get a chance to say the things that are good about this because, you always overwhelm it with this guy. It's a good story, it's a nice story, it's a dead story.

BOLLING: So let's talk about it. How can.

BECKEL: Why? I did to me, it's a waste of time.

BOLLING: How can we make him if you won't show, what some video.

BECKEL: It's a waste of time. What is not a waste of time is when you people said that sick people would sign up, 80 percent, 85 percent young people are healthy signed up.

BOLLING: Is it right that.

BECKEL: I don't want to hear that. Sorry.

BECKEL: CBS won't even show you number one, Gruber lied.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Number two, Gruber called Americans stupid in the veltro. (ph)

PERINO: Well, the reason why is -- right.

BOLLING: And number three, Pelosi.

BECKEL: Can I ask some producers, can we have a one day just to talk about what Obamacare has done right?

BOLLING: We will, Bob.

PERINO: Why don't you just make your own show?

BOLLING: Let's go.

PERIONO: That would.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, the bottom line is this is a question.

BECKEL: What are you saying?

PERINO: Do your own show.

GUILFOYLE: That's been post about the mainstream media and how they have handled this and their failure to report on a very valid important story. Because, they were complicit like you said, they are the aiders and the betters. They're the ones that backed up the truck to bank so the cash could be looted from the vault. Now, they've made away with it, so do you think they wanna uncover the facts that show that they were complicit in it? No. They gonna cover it up, they gonna black it out because that's the way they survive.

BECKEL: Government suggested they all got together and besides they want to cover Gruber, is that what happened?

GUTFELD: No, no, no. They got together and they all agreed with what Gruber had been saying.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Which that they had to lie about this bill to get it through. The godfather of leftism, Bob, is not Karl Marx, it's P.T. Barnum. That every progressive voter in their minds is a sucker, all they have to do is lie and get it through and that's exactly what happened. The -- you know what? It was not the Republicans or anybody or any conservative or libertarian with the suckers, they didn't vote for this crap.


GUTFELD: Barnum made a mint off of side shows. He made a men and bearded ladies and two-headed goats, but this is a three-headed snake, Obamacare. It's Pelosi, its Gruber and its Obama.

BECKEL: Its' all according to the American Insurance Institute, 10 million new people insured that because of Obamacare.

GUTFELD: Bob, I -- Bob, I would.

BECKEL: 10 million.

GUTFELD: Bob, I wish I could go -- I could give you the amount of e-mails that I get from people who've lost their health care.


GUTFELD: Who have, who have, who have seen their, their rates skyrocket. They write constantly, and you ignore that.

BECKEL: Well, no. I don't ignore that. Put down and this time I accuse of about walnut gang (ph) came in here today prepared.

BOLLING: We get on a second thought.

BECKEL: OK, fine.

BOLLING: But the segment was about how the media is treating this. How long for them, before they start. BECKEL: Why starts? I mean.

BOLLING: Dana, how long before ABC, NBC and CBS decide that this becomes a story?

PERINO: I don't think that they probably will or if they do it will be dismissed and derisive and -- you'll have to watch Fox to find out where it goes. I mean, he'll have his tenured position at MIT, but I do think that the weight of this bill, whether or not it's a great as Bob says and we are all just too stupid to understand, just how great it is, maybe I am that stupid, to not understand how great the bill is, that the media will not cover it. In that way, and us complaining that they're not is not going to solve the problem. I do think there are some positive things going forward, Rubio and Ryan, Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan apparently working on an additional piece of legislation that would deal with some of the important things, especially the employer mandate in particular. If you look at the front page of Wall Street Journal today, there's a story by Nick Timiraos, hope that I say that correctly, it's called, Many Face New Normal: Part- Time Pay, Full-Time Bills. And I think what doesn't show up in any of statistics what people are trying to show how great the bill is, it's the weight of this bill on the economy for part-time workers who have seen their hours cut from 35 to 20.


PERINO: Many of them single mothers who don't have the time or ability to work two jobs in order to make ends meet. And this is the, this is the drag on the economy that nobody is willing to face up to the Democratic Party but, voters decided -- last week that they wanted to do something about it so now, the Republicans have to figure out a way what can we possibly do to work with the administration that gets something signed by the president that would fix this problem.

BECKEL: So this is not --

BOLLING: Get it -- now you can --

BECKEL: Thank you, this is not, -- by no means a great bill. There's a lot of things could be done to fix it, and I hope that they amend it to fix it, and that it makes sense. I've said that from the beginning now, this is a lot of things like, cross state lines and that sort of thing. But, you know the thing is, it was said that the -- you couldn't keep your doctor or your plan. Well, a lot of people lost their plans. That's right, 85 percent has4 lost their plan policies now, have new policies and they're better policies and 50 percent I talked to their doctors.

GUTFELD: That's not you.

BECKEL: That's Kaiser Permanente.


GUTFELD: There are other statistics that shows that their policies are not as good, that are worse, and that they paying for.

BOLLING: And by the way, Bob. This all started.

GUTFELD: You know what? You would be great if they didn't have to make it.

BECKEL: Do I need to bring God in here for back? (ph)

GUTFELD: No, you are God, Bob.

BOLLING: Can we just point out that Bob, this all started when you said -- going down. Premiums are --

BECEKL: I was going to explain that to you. I was going to explain to you.

BOLLING: Wait a second, what is in all about premiums?

BECKLE: Of course not.

BOLLING: Let's see how the White House was spinning this whole ball of mess hoax. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There was a steadfast commitment by this administration to -- to make sure the people had good insight into the benefits of the law. I think it's actually Republicans who haven't been particularly transparent or even honest about the true impact of those.


BOLLING: Gruber, Dana. As Gruber says, we lied, they're stupid, but we get it through, but it's Republicans who weren't true.

PERINO: People forget remember, this bill is actually cobbled together the night before Christmas of 2009. What happened in January of 2010, Republican -- the Democrats lost their supermajority in the Senate. Therefore, they did couldn't -- they couldn't send another bill through, so they had to use the cobbled together bill. Even though they planned to go through and fix it all and apparently all these things are going to be addressed and you had the famous quote, we have to pass it to find out what's in it, and they did. And they're paying a price for, really sloppy work.

BOLLING: Alright, quick thoughts around, Greg? Yeah? No?

GUTFELD: Well, I don't know. Bob, Bob, I just want to ask you. Imagine if this is how you bought your groceries. If you had to go to buy your groceries every day, you needed a 12-digit card and then when you came home, there was your grocery benefits bill that said, they're no longer covering milk or cookies and you're gonna have to go back and call to find out how to pay for them. And then you just -- you also found out that you know, milk is gone up to $500, because there are no price tags in the supermarket. This is -- this is what you see as an effective way of delivering health care. Is this way? It's a horrible, a horrible monstrosity that makes lives hell. Why don't you let them make the choices, let them have the market?

BECKEL: My oldest friend on Capitol Hill as the next box (ph) is now the ambassador to China who had this bill for three years. He works very hard, day and night. It was not cobbled together on the last day of December. It had a fundamental -- the fundamentals of the bill were there. They threw some things in there they shouldn't have, and I've said, it could be fixed. These things can be done. But, you know in states that have had the exchanges, insurance rates are up last year, 4.5 percent, those that didn't, 10 percent to 20 percent.

BOLLING: Up -- on all of them. K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I Look --

BECKEL: Or I suggest. In fact that.

BOLLING: It did work, Bob.

BECKEL: Yeah. OK, fine.

BOLLING: You said, up on all of them.

GUILFOYLE: I hope he does have to testify in front of congressional hearings because, the truth really does needs to come out so that the American people can make very wise choices like they did in the last election about who they want in charge, who they want I n charge of their family, of their money that's coming in to their homes, about jobs and the future. This is all connected.

BOLLING: Alright. We're gonna leave it right there.

Next, will the media apologize for insulting Americans who voiced their concerns, years ago, the lawmakers about Obamacare? And later, what the man who killed bin Laden revealed the last night, about the last seconds of the Al-Qaeda leader's wife. But before we go, Shep has some breaking news from the Fox News desk, Shep?

SHEPARD SMITH, SHEPARD SMITH REPORTING SHOW HOST: Eric, thanks. That survivalist accused of shooting and killing a Pennsylvania state trooper now faces new charges, two counts of terrorism. His name is Eric Frein with a hearing this afternoon, he appeared on video. Investigators say Eric Frein opened fire on the police barracks in September, killed the trooper on the left ear and wounded the other man. Frein was on the run for weeks on end before U.S. Marshals captured him last month. Cops say he's a self trained survivalist who talked about wanting to commit mass murder, more of The Five after this.


GUTFELD: Gruber makes the Obamacare town hall protesters from 2009 seem like authentic fortune tellers, but let's remember, Gruber didn't call them stupid. He called the people who fell for the bill, stupid, which made the town hallers geniuses. Sadly, back then, they were called far worse, I believe it rhymed with racist, and then unruly mob out for blood. Well it turns out that mob knew the White House was lying, that Obamacare was a scam and they were just trying to save us from ourselves. Like this fellow.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have spent two weeks on my own trying to read that bill, and trying to understand it. It's like a Russian novel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you pledged to all of us here tonight, that if a new government single payer system is instituted, that you will opt out of your Cadillac insurance and into the same one that we will be forced to take.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority is against this plan! The majority is against this plan!


GUTFELD: Which is why the media ate these folks alive, brutally smearing them just to get this collective crap-fest into law.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This widespread anger you're talking about is, is, is really something. The town meetings seem to have taken on a life of their own and causing problems for both sides.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't believe in the president's health care plan, I think what you need to do is explain to the American people why we feel this way. But standing here and pointing fingers, and standing here and shouting, and pushing and shoving, I mean, you know what? I hate to go there, but the reality is, Skip Gates was arrested for what these people they were doing here. This is absolutely ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, to the White House and the fever pitch of a health care debate some town halls are becoming town brawls.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: So what's that all about? Let's call it what it is. Bigotry, the media mocked the people because, they were old. And old means, conservative, and old means, wise, and old means smart. If they were younger, the media would have listened, just like they did with occupy Wall Street, a feted camp that lacked wrinkles that made up for it in species. So now, the truth is out, and the town hallers were right, and what do you hear? Silence. Not of lambs but of liars who deserves nothing less that to be tarred and feathered by every person who lost their health care or doctor, by every person who saw the rates rise and every person who ended up with inferior health care for their special needs child. What's needed is a new grade panthers. Older, smarter folks who will kick the hell out of these corrupt lying bastards, because Obamacare is what happen when a government deceives and when the cowardly media forfeits their role in exposing it, lost my voice there, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Well, because you had a lot of emotion behind it, because we know the truth. We knew it. People tried to say it, and they were shouted down like they were irrational savages, when instead, they were the ones that were informed. They were the ones that knew what was in the bill and the impact that it will have. Can anyone offer an apology please to the American people? We're waiting.

GUTFELD: Bob, are you ready? They did ring the bell. They were the first to ring the bell and they were right.

BECKEL: They were -- they were legitimately out there with expression of legitimate grievances with a bill they assumed is not gonna be healthy for them. I would only point it out in defense of it. That was 2009, 2010, '11, '12 and '13 nobody showed up at town hall meetings. Once the bill got those in effect, you know why? Because, not all people had increases there -- in their premiums, a lot of people are getting a lot more help and 10 million people who had no insurance --

GUTFELD: I don't believe that.

BOLLING: I don't either.


BECKEL: Don't believe the insurance association of America.


BOLLING: You just run through states that reader (ph) up a little or up a lot depending on their -- whether they had a health care exchange or not.


BECKEL: You know, I can tell you the sun doesn't come up and -- Obama anything to do with it, you would say no.

BOLLING: Insurance right now that wasn't getting insurance and paying less for it? The people were getting it for free and they're very happy with your 100 percent right about them. But you know what the people who have to pay for it, or paying hard premiums, my niece literally e-mailed or texted me in the break saying, she has six kids.


BOLLING: I don't have health care because of Obamacare. My daughter, sophomore in high school, doesn't have health care because of Obamacare. Bob, you're completely off base, you can't just -- you know laterally agree with it, because you supposed to have Democrat.

BECKEL: Your niece and 150 people who were poor, you do it, you now have insurance and that's fine with me.

GUTFELD: Yey. See, so we sacrificed -- it's all for the greater good.

BOLLING: And she works.

GUTFELD: It's all for the greater good, right? If a few people suffer -- for so other people get free stuff, that's Bob.

BECKEL: They not gonna suffer this, why should that they have to address on that.


BECKEL: It does to be fixed up. I agree with it. I agree with that but I think it's working very well.

GUTFELD: Dana, even Bill Maher says that ageism is now the last acceptable form of bigotry and I do think when you remember back then, most of the mockery was about how these people were just old.

PERINO: And they're crazy.


PERINO: Way back in the day when women use to go take their husbands go to the doctors and may say, he's snoring like crazy.


PERINO: And then say, gosh, I think that the lady -- they give the woman valium.


PERINO: Because -- just to shut her up.


PERINO: I mean, that's what Gruber is trying to do, they trying -- want to give America valium so that they shut up.


PERINO: And just let them do what they thought was best for us. But still, in the Gallup polls, 52 percent of the American people do not like this bill, and they have good reason to, but the other thing is the Medicaid piece of this, it gives the worst possible care. And there is a way to have a competitive market, if you had catastrophic plans for everybody.


PERINO: Required -- you have catastrophic plans plus, pay out of pocket for their regular routine visits. You would actually be able to see health care costs come down, if we had the guts to do that. The other thing is they weren't honest -- Gruber says, they have to lie to the American people because they won't understand it. Well, actually one -- just try it on for size. Treat them like adults.



BECKEL: Can't afford to pay out of pocket?

PERINO: That, that they Medicaid. Medicaid is a subpar way to deal with it but, we could improve that. Instead, we have to put all of our money into subsidies.

BOLLING: No one goes without health care in this country, Bob. The country to where what you look -- and by the way, your 10 million number?

BOLLING: Out of five, out five.

PERINO: It's that 30 million who still don't have insurance.

BOLLING: Five two thirds, it's about 3.8 million.

BECKEL: That's well -- you go ahead and argue with the guys who did this to the insurance.


GUTFELD: I know a lot about now, you believe everything insurance companies say, Bob.

BECKEL: No. I believe -- listen. This is just statistics. What can I tell you?

GUTFELD: Yeah, last word to you, Kimberly. Don't you think in a way, that somehow the Republican Party are emboldened by Gruber that, remember, Bob you used to say, that no one was gonna talk about Obamacare anymore. Now, is back here and its' I -- I would never say repeal the damn thing, because it's a lost cause but boy.

GUILFOYLE: But guess what? You know.

GUTFELD: This is -- the ugly beast is reared its ugly head.

GUILFOYLE: And guess what? Thanks to Gruber it's not trending on the home page. That's the deal.

BECKEL: And according to the site with Gruber, two of us still not talking about are they?

GUTFELD: Are they?



GUTFELD: How so? No, no, only the media. Rest of America hates this thing.

BECKEL: You think they're talking about Gruber?

GUTFELD: I think so.


GUTFELD: When previously obscure MIT economist ends up -- trending on twitter, that's a problem for you.

BOLLING: Three days in a row.



PERINO: Why do you think he's on the YouTube.?


GUILFOYLE: Viral video.

PERINO: But he is on the speaking circuit and having them paid $400,000 by HHS is because he was the architect of Obamacare.


PERINO: There's no other reason.

GUTFELD: Why did they become architect?

BECKEL: I thought his brother -- his brother was architect.

GUTFELD: OK. Coming up, Obama's secret amnesty plan for illegal is revealed. Obama -- Fox News obtained it and Dana's got it for you next.


PERINO: President Obama may soon take executive action to overhaul our immigration system, even though he himself told us just last year, it would be wrong to bypass congress.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If in fact, I could solve these problems without passing laws in congress, then I would do so. But, we're also a nation of laws, that's part of our tradition. And so, the easy way out is to try to yell and pretend like I can do something by violating our laws and what I'm proposing is the harder path which is, to use our Democratic processes.


PERINO: That said he could be unveiling his amnesty plan as soon as next week according to Fox News producer Lucas Tomlinson who exclusively obtained the president's ten-point plan. The most controversial portion involves suspending -- I'm sorry, suspending deportations for illegal immigrants, which with mean more than 4.5 million would get to stay. House Speaker Boehner is vowing congress will do everything it can to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN BOEHNER, HOUSE SPEAKER: The president's threatening to take unilateral action on immigration. Even though, in the past he's made clear he didn't believe he had the constitutional responsibility or authority to do that. And I just say this, we're gonna fight the president, tooth and nail if he continues down this path.


PERINO: OK, so here we go. One week after the election, Kimberly.


PERINO: President Obama said, he didn't have the legal authority but, maybe that has changed -- apparently, they're gonna focused on the deportation issue in particular, and not deal with some of the other more comprehensive things like the high-tech visa.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, perhaps. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, Dana. Maybe he's referring to an entire different Constitution, but not one, it seems, the United States of America.

But nevertheless, he's emboldened, despite the results of the midterm elections, to go through with this ten-year part plan. And by the way, what it's going to do legally, if he gets away with this. is put illegal aliens in a legal limbo. It's really not solving the problem. What he's doing is pushing it off. He's going to suspend deportations through deferred action and prosecutorial discretion. And by that it means, OK, I'm a prosecutor. I'm supposed to -- I swear an oath to uphold the law. Because the president decided to wave its pen across the page, I've got to look the other way and not enforce the law.

How is this appropriate or constitutional or legal? And it should be challenged.

PERINO: It does seem also, Eric, like a misreading of what the voters said last week. I mean, according to most of the polls I have seen people are against this. Why not give it -- the new Congress a deadline of, say, March 1 to get it done or else?

BOLLING: Because that would give the opportunity to the Republicans to come up with a plan that's acceptable to the American people. He asked to defer to his base. He's trying to make sure that he's -- you know, hat tips the Hispanic community and say, "I got your back on that. And just don't worry."

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's what that is.

BOLLING: In that sound bite, the word that jumped out for me was he said, "We're a nation of laws and we uphold the tradition." No, we don't uphold the tradition. We uphold the laws. We uphold the constitutionality of the laws. Basically what he's saying, he's taking the Constitution, he's holding a match to it saying, "Look, I'm going to do this. If you don't do this, if you don't come back with a law that I like, forget it. It's up in smoke. I'm going to do this my way."

You're right, Dana. The voters spoke last week, but President Obama's not hearing it.

PERINO: Let's listen to Congressman Gutierrez from immigration. He thinks that not having done immigration will cost the Democrats seats in the election.


REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: The president decided to make a political calculation.

June 30 of this year the president got a call from Boehner. Boehner said, "We're not moving on immigration reform." The president said, well, then, I'm going to act.

And then comes the end of the summer. He says, "Well, I'm going to wait until after the election." So what did we get? We lost the Senate anyway and infuriated, angered, disillusioned lots of voters.


PERINO: Remember, Bob, back in August when we said that political calculation was strange for the Obama administration to float that if they weren't really going to do it? Do you think it hurt them?

BECKEL: Well, you know, I suppose it might have, if they had done it, it might have turned out a few more voters, but I don't think it's enough to carry some of these people in the Senate states that lost, and I'm not sure if it wasn't counterbalanced by people who have been so infuriated they would have come out.

Obama's going to get away with some of this. He's not going to get away with all of it. He's already lost a couple of key cases in the appellate.


BECKEL: And my guess is that he'll lose several of these. My suggestion to him is very simple. He has a right under the Constitution to grant amnesty to anybody. And he ought to grant amnesty to anybody. And he ought to grant amnesty to 11, 48 million Hispanics or anybody else who's here illegally and who doesn't have a criminal record.

PERINO: So double the number. But then what about the future, Greg, about if you -- doesn't that just say come to America?


PERINO: We have an open border.

GUTFELD: Yes. An allowance of behavior always encourages more behavior. We saw that a few months ago with the mad dash of young people from the south into our country. It was like a Bieber presale, except the tickets were free.

And by the way, this is a -- they call it a ten-part plan. And you only need one part. It's follow the law. It's an ancient trick. The more parts you add, the less they want you to read. Does that sound familiar?



GUTFELD: Comprehensiveness is a ruse, because it makes something so huge that it's absurd to even attempt. Therefore, when you say no, you come off as the bad guy.

However, I believe, as I've said, I'm for immigration. I believe we should welcome new people. The more brains we get, the more innovation we have in this country. But you can't excuse carelessness. Like declaring amnesty to 4 million or 8 million people. You have to follow the rules of "The Bachelorette." You know, you don't date all of them at once. Well, maybe you do.

PERINO: Or you do.

GUTFELD: But you don't say yes to all of them. You say -- you say yes to only the winners, and they all come through the front door.

GUILFOYLE: There's only a certain number of roses.

PERINO: That's because if the president goes forward with this and it does poison the well, they're not going to get what the business community really says is desperately needed, which is the high-tech workers. He won't get it done.

BOLLING: Bob, you suggest we give blanket amnesty to all the people that are here?

BECKEL: That would be...


BOLLING: Let me ask you something. Hold on. What would happen the day after that, they float this idea? The 11 or 12 million would be 24 million or 34 million. They'd all be flowing in to get amnesty in America. Are you out of your mind? That was like...

GUILFOYLE: It's just very irresponsible.

BECKEL: Well, you say continually that I'm out of my mind. So that's not a new revelation. The...

PERINO: I've got to run in a second, guys.


GUTFELD: Where are you going?

PERINO: One quick last second.

GUTFELD: We have another half hour of show, Dana.

PERINO: I know, because I want Bob and...

GUTFELD: It goes from 5 to 6! You can't just leave!

PERINO: I'm not leaving. I want Bob to have a chance in this segment.

BECKEL: I just -- all I was going to say was that I think that most of what he's going to try to do is going to be knocked down in the courts. He will get away with some of it. I hope he does. And I think the idea of somehow sending these people back home, that many very conservative Republicans want to do is crazier than I am.

GUTFELD: It's terrible. It's mean; it's cruel.

BECKEL: It is cruel.

PERINO: That's also not what most -- the majority of Republicans want.

GUILFOYLE: That is not. Secure the borders.

PERINO: Coming up next on "The Five," take a look.


ROBERT O'NEILL, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Part of it was, OK, this is the one that's going to blow up. Let's get it over with. And so I squeezed him and the two of us went up the stairs in the room. We haven't seen the big guy yet. So he's left. And if he's here, he's in there.


PERINO: The gripping details of bin Laden's final moments from the hero who killed him. We're back in a moment.


GUILFOYLE: Well, last night was the dramatic conclusion of "The Man who Killed Usama bin Laden." For the very first time, we heard exactly what happened after our Navy SEALs broke into the room of the world's most wanted terrorism. Here's Robert O'Neill.


O'NEILL: Standing two feet in front of me, with his hands on his wife's shoulders, behind her, was the face that I'd seen thousands of times. It's UBL. Very quickly, when I recognized him and then just pop, pop, pop.

PETER DOOCY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Where did you shoot Usama bin Laden?

O'NEILL: In the face three times.

DOOCY: Did he stagger at all?

O'NEILL: He just fell by the left side of the bed. I was standing above him when he took his last breath, and I heard it audibly.

DOOCY: Did Usama bin Laden say anything?



GUILFOYLE: O'Neill and comrades could have lost their lives that night. Even they didn't think they would return alive. So why were they willing to risk it all?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to thank you on behalf of my son and Carol's daughter and some of the other family members.

O'NEILL: That's the reason that we went, accepting death the way we did. Because it wasn't for ourselves to get the big mission and have bragging rights. The reason that we left on the mission, knowing we're probably going to die, more than likely not come home, was for the single mom that went to work on Tuesday morning; and later that morning she made the conscious decision to jump to her death, because it's better than burning alive.


GUILFOYLE: Powerful moment. And an incredible documentary. Eric, your thoughts?

BOLLING: Very moving. That part of it, the 9/11 stuff. You know, a lot of us have attachment to that event. And...

GUILFOYLE: Like you do.

BOLLING: Like I do. And I remember the anger I had for bin Laden and al Qaeda at the time. And to know that that man is off the face of the earth and died in the way he did, I'm thrilled. I'm happy. I'm a Christian, but I don't care, because he was going to kill a lot more people. And thank God for people like Robert O'Neill and the Navy SEAL Team 6 and the rest of the guys that were involved in that.

GUILFOYLE: And everybody in our military who puts it on the line every day -- Dana.

PERINO: Well, the thing I loved about the documentary, too, and seeing the last part again is that I thought the quality of it was great and it's just -- it was a different way to sit and be quiet and think about 9/11 that I hadn't done in a long time.

And I thought that the pacing of the documentary was great. I think -- I'm glad I saw it all in one sitting. I think it would have been hard to wait overnight to see the second part. But the illustrations, the graphics, the camera angles, the whole tone and pacing of it I thought was very good.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Very well done. Kudos to John Finley, too, who put together a very nice documentary -- Greg.

GUTFELD: Did you know that Pete Doocy is related to Steve Doocy?

PERINO: Oh, really?

GUTFELD: I had no idea. I thought it was just a coincidence, because they don't look at all alike.

You know, I think it's good to know how bin Laden croaked. I know that there are a lot of -- there's a few SEALs that don't think it's good to divulge this kind of stuff but, you know, a lot of people didn't know how Hitler died. You don't know if he died in pain. It's great to know and to give people comfort and closure, especially the victims, that bin Laden suffered like a coward.

And I'm not beneath enjoying the suffering of others. I enjoy knowing that he got shot in the face. I enjoy showing that he hid behind his wife. I enjoy knowing that his last moments he was probably pooping himself. That makes me happy.

PERINO: Agreed.

GUILFOYLE: We actually know that about you.



BECKEL: Well, you know,, compared to Saddam Hussein, who went, frankly -- I mean, I thought Hussein, he was either drugged up or something, but he looked, you know, fairly calm. Compared to...

GUTFELD: I think he was shocked.

BECKEL: Yes, I think he was shocked is exactly right. But here's -- here's this little theory I wanted to throw out here.

I don't believe Usama bin Laden was buried at sea. I think the body is still here, and I think they're looking into it to figure out what evil is. So they've been doing that project. The military's been doing that project for a long time. And if there's one point to find out his brains...

BOLLING: Area 51.

GUTFELD: Area 51, where they had the moon landing.

BECKEL: No, no, no. They really do have these bodies of people...

GUILFOYLE: OK. All right, Bob. This is getting, you know, even weird for you.

GUTFELD: ... trails.

BOLLING: You know that thing that landed on the comet? That's all fake, too.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Enough about that! All right.

BECKEL: Who would want to land on that thing? Have you seen it?

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: The KISS Army landed on the comet.


OK. We want to thank everyone for tuning in to see "The Man Who Killed Usama bin Laden." It was the most watched documentary in the history of the FOX News Channel and the No. 1 show in cable news last night. We are so glad that you enjoyed it.

Next on "The Five," a school district in Bob's home state is canceling Christmas this year.


GUILFOYLE: You all know how much he loves that holiday. So how does he feel about that? He's going to tell us next. Wake up, Bob.


BECKEL: Christian -- Christmas, excuse me -- that's my holiday; that's my favorite ever holiday -- will no longer be on the calendar for students in a school district in my home state of Maryland, and it's my county. Montgomery County.

That's because Muslim leaders backed by CAIR called for equal recognition for Muslim holidays. Isn't that nice? So the Montgomery County School Board just voted to remove references to all religious holidays to make the Muslims happy, I guess.

I don't know exactly what to say about this. If you want recognition about your holiday, put it in the school bulletin. They're still going to be closed over Christmas and the Jewish holidays, so I don't -- this is just going way, way, way too far. I mean, it just -- it drives me crazy.

Eric, does it -- before I say something that I will regret, will you go ahead and take this?

BOLLING: Go ahead.

BECKEL: No, no, no, no. I had enough of that yesterday.

BOLLING: Put your hand on the bleep button.

Look, you know, CAIR, you ruin all the fun for everybody, don't you?

PERINO: They said -- they said -- CAIR says, "We were blind-sided. We are disappointed. It isn't what we asked for. We don't believe that other faith groups should be punished for our request," which I think they said with a straight face.

BECKEL: They did say it with a straight face. But they can't actually have holiday because of -- religious holidays because of separation of church and state. But schools do publish it. Does anybody see a calendar here that doesn't have the Christmas holiday on it?

BOLLING: No, but they have to rename it. They can't call it Christmas.

BECKEL: I know.

BOLLING: Winter break.

GUILFOYLE: Christmas, they are federal and state holidays, as well. So you know, I mean, CAIR has just basically spoiled the soup (ph) for everybody. And the only people happy are probably the atheists.

BECKEL: Is Christmas a federal holiday?

GUILFOYLE: All of these holidays are on the books, Bob.

BECKEL: I didn't know. OK. There. Then why should we...

GUILFOYLE: Well, Maryland shouldn't have done it. I mean, this is the problem with what's happening around here. And if, by the way, they had to give a day or something, but now you've canceled, you've ruined it for everybody. It's ridiculous.

GUTFELD: They've ruined Christmas. They've ruined -- now look. Forced equality is also going to be the enemy of the good, because the world is imperfect.


GUTFELD: This is what happens. But the schools are going to be closed anyway on winter and spring break. So the families -- and the families can instruct their children about Christmas. You don't need to rely on the public schools.

CAIR, I agree, was unhappy about -- but you know what? I'm not worried about my religion. There are 8 million members of the Swinging Unicorn and you don't see me clamoring for a holiday.

GUILFOYLE: Swinging Unicorn?

BECKEL: But you know, on a serious note -- on a little bit of a serious note, we were formed into -- the formation of this country was on a Christian-Judeo set of beliefs. Correct?

BOLLING: What do you mean?

GUILFOYLE: Are you just getting that now? That's what I was saying.

BOLLING: The swinging part.

BECKEL: What? The swinging part of what?

BOLLING: That's not the unicorn society (ph).

BECKEL: I think Greg should get his holiday off. I mean, it's -- how many people -- think about the people that joined that thing.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's an amazing.

BECKEL: I was a minister of Universal Free Life Church back in the '70s.

GUTFELD: Henry Kissinger is the Swinging Unicorn.

BECKEL: Oh, he is? OK.

GUILFOYLE: Uh, do you know that?

BECKEL: You don't want me to say anything dangerous, right? "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Is your segment over?


BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing" -- and Greg.

GUTFELD: I haven't banned a phase in a while. I'm banning this one, "Have a good one." What is this "one" you want me to have a good of? What if that one happens to be something bad and having a good one could be painful? I was leaving the men's room and -- actually, I was going into the men's room, and a guy was walking out on the 18th floor, and he said, "Have a good one."

PERINO: No, he didn't.

GUTFELD: Yes, he did. And I said, "Sir, mind your own damn business." Phil.

BECKEL: Did you have a good one?

GUTFELD: There you go. That's bad.

BECKEL: What did you do in the men's room?

PERINO: OK. There's another book out this week that I want to talk about. It is called "Warrior Diplomat" by Michael G. Waltz. He is a former Green Beret, and he worked in the National Security Council. This is a story about how he was on the front lines in Afghanistan, and then he worked on the National Security Council. Actually, I remember. We worked together. He was in the vice president's office. We sat together. I did a Q and A with him on the web. It's a nice little primer before you read the book.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice. He's a great guy and a good father.

BOLLING: Keep it up, K.G.

GUTFELD: How do you know that?

BOLLING: It's your ball.

GUILFOYLE: Because I know him and I met him and we communicate.

PERINO: And all proceeds of that book go to charity, by the way.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. You should buy it.

So I have a cute little thing. Jennifer Lawrence, unbelievably talented, right? Did you know that she's deathly afraid of singing? Well, you're about to see it. Because she was on "The Late Show," and take a listen to this.


JENNIFER LAWRENCE, ACTRESS: Oh, my God. You're trying to get me to sing?


LAWRENCE (singing): Have a holly jolly Christmas.

LETTERMAN (singing): And a holly jolly Christmas.

LAWRENCE (singing): It's the best time of the year.

LETTERMAN (singing): Here comes Santa down the thing. And a holly jolly Christmas.

LAWRENCE (singing): Have a glass of beer.


GUILFOYLE: OK. That was awful.

BOLLING: Awesome. Awesome!


PERINO: Who chose (ph) that?

BOLLING: That was great.

GUILFOYLE: That was awful. However, so she's making, you know, fun of the fact that she's deathly afraid of singing, because she's singing in the newest "Hunger Games" installment, "Mockingjay, Part 1."

BOLLING: That wasn't awful. All right, Bob, you're up. You're up.

BECKEL: I want you -- I want you to listen to what President Obama said in China yesterday. Just listen to this short little brief statement.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every day, some of the barriers of mistrust are broken down, mutual understanding is promoted, and that lays the seed -- the seeds for cooperation not just today but for future generations.


BECKEL: You know, Mr. President, if I could, with all due respect, give you some advice, you and all of your precedent -- your previous presidents, going back to Harry Truman, have all gone over there, worn those silly outfits, eaten their food and come out saying, "Gee, we've got to have a better relationship."

Do you understand something? These are the biggest threat to the United States in the history of this country. The Chinese will try to bury us. They don't like us. They're building a very big military. They're trying to get hegemony over the Pacific Rim. You're going to regret this, and every president before you is going to regret it, to realize these guys are out to see us annihilated from the face of the earth.

BOLLING: Wow. That's lovely. On that note...

GUILFOYLE: Uplifting.

GUTFELD: I like hegemony. That's a great word.

BOLLING: I have an uplifting story, "One More Thing." Check out this tweet that was delivered this morning by Elisabeth Hasselbeck. She says, "Full of gratitude to be back tomorrow, 6 a.m. Eastern, on @foxandfriends! Mornings are #betterwithfriends like all of you!"


BOLLING: Just want to let everyone know. She's back tomorrow morning.

GUTFELD: She was away?

BOLLING: She was away...

GUTFELD: I don't get up before 11.

BOLLING: OK, well, she was -- K.G. filled in for her a few times.

GUILFOYLE: Helping out my friend.

BOLLING: And she's going to explain her absence. Here's a hint. Everything is A-OK. She's doing great and make sure you...

BECKEL: How's the baby doing?

BOLLING: It wasn't a baby.

BECKEL: Oh, it wasn't? I'm sorry. I thought it was.

BOLLING: Not a baby. It had nothing do with babies. I'll be on that show, as well.

BECKEL: She's a really nice person, by the way. She's great.

BOLLING: She's amazing. She's -- our morning girl is back.

BECKEL: I watch her every time before I go to bed.

BOLLING: All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next. You've got about ten seconds to wave good-bye.

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