'The Five' reflect on lives lost in the effort to end the war in Afghanistan

close

Video

Hegseth: 'Our troops performed honorably in Afghanistan'

'The Five' reacts to America ending the War in Afghanistan

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 30, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST (on camera): Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Katie Pavlich, Geraldo Rivera, Pete Hegseth, and Greg Gutfeld. It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is THE FIVE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The last American war planes have left Kabul airport. There are no more U.S. war planes at that airport. The American presence is gone from the airport. I can confirm with multiple U.S. officials that I have spoken to in recent moments America's longest war is officially over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Fox has learned the war in Afghanistan is officially over. As Jennifer just said the last American warplanes carrying U.S. troops have left Afghan airspace and the Taliban announcing it is officially in control of the Kabul airport. The Pentagon says American citizens are still there and the State Department will work to get the remaining Americans out.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken set to speak at any moment on this breaking news. We'll take it around our table first. So, Pete, having served, this must be filled with a lot of different emotions --

(CROSSTALK)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Yes, it's almost surreal --

PERINO: -- and thoughts.

HEGSETH: -- it's almost surreal to see that banner at the bottom right there. America ends war on Afghanistan. I say this. Setting aside all the criticisms I and many others have had, I'm very glad that every one of our boys at this point is off of that airfield. Off of that kill zone, off of that x.

So, you can talk about what was mismanaged, you can talk about the future. And we are going to talk a lot about that, about the people left behind, about the people come -- about the legitimate terror state that's there. But ultimately, I got to tip my hat all to the Pentagon using an element of surprise, moving earlier than many people would think they would and getting all of our boys back.

So, it is not been a smooth process. We've lost 13 American lives. Almost two dozen additionally wounded that will not be forgotten. But it's a good thing that we're not a target of ISIS-K or Al Qaeda of Haqqani right now.

PERINO: Greg Gutfeld.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: I agree with everything Pete just said. So that's all from me. No, I'm kidding. No, but I do agree, you know, I think that it's a relief to know that this is over. But we know that in some way it's not.

HEGSETH: Yes.

GUTFELD: I mean, we all saw that the analysis will not be over. If that was over, I would be out of a job. But the fact is, it's just weird when you hear like it is a new Afghanistan at the same day that you hear that they executed a folk singer.

So, there's all these other elements out there. And then of course you have these conflicting stories about whether or not ISIS and Taliban hate each other but then why did they release all the ISIS people from prison. I don't understand that either.

The demilitarization, it's what the word is for the equipment. He mentioned a few there but there's like tons and tons you saw that graph that came out yesterday in the Times of all the weapons.

I think -- but the real thing now is account -- who is going to be accountable for the big botch. Because that's what this is. This was the big botch. And it's actually oddly a blunder made up of smaller blenders. And I don't know if it's all Joe's fault. But it sure feels that way because he's the guy at the top.

But we need to, you know, we need to find -- I mean, like, did the Taliban actually offer control of the airport and did we decline that? That's a pretty huge blunder. And that was -- that's -- it's paled by the other blunders. But you can go -- you can keep going through them and through them and find them.

I think that's -- it's an important thing to look at because I think it's going to be -- I don't think it's as rosy as it's going to look for the next couple of weeks.

PERINO: All right. And certainly, possibly beyond. Geraldo, you were there many times and covered many war zones. Not covered many ends.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Well, you know, I was not here on THE FIVE last week. So, I want to express how gut wrenching and heart breaking those deaths were and how that affects everything including my analysis. Even though it was an incident, it was more than that. It was symbolic of so much.

And delving into the 13 who died, and the two of them women, and the navy corpsman from close to where I live in Ohio, and five of them Latinos of the 13. So proud of them, loved them so much, so pained by their death.

The stunning end of this war is something that is really shaking me to my core. It is an amazing thing. Twenty years it's been a big part of my life. It's why I came to Fox News. All of us have --

PERINO: Yes.

RIVERA: -- you know, some personal effect of this, of this story and this trauma. We left with honor. I have to say. The services performed magnificently. If the Taliban bodyguards had been better, if the line had held and the 13 had not been killed, I think we would have forgiven President Biden already for the mismanaged, the bungled evacuation at the beginning.

I'm delighted that they demilitarized those aircraft which means they made them inoperable and unusable. So, we didn't -- we left behind. There was a lot of small arms and stuff they already had.

In terms of the threat to the homeland, I'm of the school that says we have over the horizon capability to strike if we see them, you know, coagulating again. I think ISIS is very low tech now. But as a father who had a daughter in Paris in 2015 for the attack that killed over 150 French people it doesn't take a lot of technology to cause a lot of harm.

So, I think sadly that's in our future. I think we have that violence in our future. We have to guard against it. God bless TSA and all the rest of them. It's going to be a well time. I, personally I'm relieved that the war is over.

PERINO: Katie, General McKenzie said there is a lot of heartbreak with this departure and he was talking about those that were left behind including some Americans, like 250. They say 250 Americans. The numbers are hard to get, but also the special immigrant visas, the interpreters and others who helped in the war.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I was talking to a marine friend last week who's talking about what's going to happen when we left. And he also agreed that we need to leave Afghanistan. But he said once the lights go off and the cameras are not rolling it's going to be medieval beyond anything that people can see.

And so, looking at the end of the war, I flash back to 9/11 and how we got here. I was 13 years old. And a lot of my friends went and they served their country. And I just want to say thank you to them for everything that they lost and sacrificed for our country.

You know, we knew it was going to happen. But it's the reality of it, it's a lot to take in and process. But I am deeply grateful for the Americans who put it all on the line including the 13 last week to keep us safe.

PERINO: I agree.

PAVLICH: And I hope that we can continue to do that.

PERINO: And we add our voices to that and lift them up and their families.

Jennifer Griffin has been at the Pentagon with us helping us think through all of these issues, reporting just incredibly well. Jennifer, throughout this entire war, let's get your thoughts as this comes to an end on August 30th.

GRIFFIN: Well, Dana, I just came out of the Pentagon briefing where General McKenzie announced that those last five military planes had cleared Afghan air pace. We learned that on the last flight out was General Donahue, the head of the 82nd Airborne who was one of the top military commanders on the ground, along with the ambassador, the State Department, DOD leaving hand and hand with the American flag on that last flight out.

Heartbreaking images in terms of what General McKenzie had to admit, which was that they did not get every American out who wanted to leave. He mentioned that this will move from a military phase to a diplomatic phase.

And that the Department of State will work tirelessly to get any American out who wants to get out by working with those partners on the ground, which include the Qataris who will have an embassy, the Turks who have their embassy and who will be in charge of -- in control of the airport. The Turkish NATO allies will work with the Taliban to get that airport operational so that commercial flights can come back in.

General McKenzie was very clear that the military took a decision not to destroy aspects of the airport, operational aspects of the airport so that things like fire trucks and command and control so that the civilian aircraft can begin coming in because there is going to be a humanitarian disaster or otherwise.

General McKenzie also made the point that the Taliban is going to have its hands full. Because as he said there are 2,000 ISIS-K fighters, ISIS fighters that the Taliban themselves let out of the prisons, the two key prisons, one at Bagram Air Base, one at Pul-e-Charkhi.

Two thousand hardened ISIS fighters, that's going to be a problem. Because there are no Americans there right now, no American forces there right now for them to target. They are going to turn their weapons on the Taliban.

And so, that is, I think the -- tonight I think I feel certainly the way, I hear Geraldo and I hear Katie, and the emotion in everyone's voices. We all feel it. The military here in this building, they feel it. This is -- it has been a long 20 years. The war is over but the heartbreak continues.

PERINO: Everyone, take around for some questions, Jen. Pete has one for you now.

HEGSETH: Jennifer, yes, it's Pete Hegseth. Geraldo said that, you know, we left with honor. And there is no doubt that our troops performed honorably. There is honor in every aspect of what our troops have done over the last 20 years.

There's lot of people feel like the way that we left in the last couple of weeks was not honorable, that it was a retreat to the Taliban. That it was at the behest of the Taliban.

We just saw the press conference from the Department of Defense. We will soon see a press conference from the Department of State. Do you feel like this is the moment with all our troops home that the finger pointing begins because ultimately it was not a process handled properly? Do you get a sense that from DOD and state, there's going to be an attempt to rewrite the narrative of who is to blame for what didn't go right?

GRIFFIN: I think for the finger pointing to begin this soon is a bit unseemly frankly. And that is not the impression that I have from the people who have been working tirelessly since August 14. I've seen people here at the Pentagon, as well at the Department of State, many of them will remain nameless over the years. But they worked and they were heroic in their efforts.

And the fact that they got 122,000 vulnerable Afghans and Americans out of that country when they had to, they had to fight their way back in basically. The airport scenes you will remember them. The 82th Airborne secured that airport in 24 hours. And there were, for the most part, other than that tragic suicide bombing at Abbey gate, it was an -- it was an unbelievable effort.

You had military planes landing every 45 minutes lifting people off to safety. Is it heartbreaking for the military commanders that they had to leave anyone behind? Obviously. I just asked General McKenzie how he feels after 20 years of war, handing the country that they had seized from the Taliban after 9/11 back to the very same Taliban.

I can't imagine that anybody in this country, any American citizen is going to be unchanged by what we've just been through not only from the last 20 years but for the last two weeks.

PERINO: Katie has a question for you, Jen.

PAVLICH: Jennifer, thank you so for all of your reporting over the past two weeks but also over the years to bring Americans and our audience the most important information on this very crucial topic.

I think there is some questions about a lot of Americans thought this was happening tomorrow. It happened today. Tomorrow is August 31st. Obviously there's a time difference with Afghanistan. But can you talk about what the general said about that in the briefing.

GRIFFIN: Well, Katie, I think it's a good point. And certainly, they had up until midnight on August 31st in Afghanistan to leave. That was the deadline. That would have been about 3.30 p.m. Eastern Time. But as you know with the military there is always operational security considerations.

And if you look at those five rockets that were fired at the airport last night, the fact that they stopped a massive vehicle with explosives and had to carry out a drone strike with against two suicide in that vehicle earlier in the day. There was a sense that time was of the essence.

And I think it's no surprise that those planes would have taken off, you know it was August 31st in Afghanistan. It's eight and a half hours ahead of us right now. And so, they left on August 31st. That was the deadline. They left and they did not leave under fire. So. And they got people out safely. And I think that was, that was the ultimate goal of the mission.

PERINO: Jen, here is Greg.

GUTFELD: Just you brought the drone strike. What -- do we have more information on the casualties and the people killed?

GRIFFIN: We really don't. And CENCOM is investigating. If you're talking about there were two drone strikes obviously, one from Friday and then one on Sunday. And that drone strike that took place in the Kabul neighborhood about two miles from the airport, that was in a very dense Kabul neighborhood. So, I would be shocked if there were not civilian casualties.

The military takes that very seriously. CENCOM is investigating. From initial reports we've heard that it was from the secondary explosions from the explosives that were in that vehicle, those two suicide bombers were packing those explosives in the vehicle, we were told earlier today. And there may have been civilian casualties. And that obviously was not the goal but the danger in terms of allowing that vehicle to head towards the airport the devastation would have been much greater.

PERINO: Geraldo has one for you and then I've got one as well.

RIVERA: General McKenzie, Jen, spoke of the pragmatic relationship of necessity with a long-term enemy, having to deal with the Taliban. I'm of the school that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Taliban hates ISIS. That makes the Taliban in this formulation my friend. I want the Taliban to snitch on ISIS. I want the Taliban to go after ISIS.

Is that the feeling in the building that the Taliban will be an unusual partner? I mean, Germany joined us against Russia. Japan joined us against China. Is there a feeling that the Taliban will join us against ISIS?

GRIFFIN: It was an absolute marriage of necessity in these last two weeks to have to deal with the Taliban to have to negotiate with the Taliban, to have Taliban provide security at the perimeter at the airport. That is not a relationship that I envision continuing.

I believe that the way the U.S. military sees it is that the Taliban and ISIS will go at it now. And the U.S. will keep an eye on things and make sure that nobody leaves the country and poses a threat to the U.S. homeland or other countries. But as long as they're engaged on the ground in Afghanistan, I think from the military perspective, the U.S. military perspective, that's a good thing.

You heard General McKenzie say that the Taliban were both pragmatic and business like. Those were his words in these last two weeks. The Taliban wanted the U.S. to leave. General McKenzie met with Mullah Baradar at the beginning after August 14th. He met with him in Doha, Qatar. And he told him that if any U.S. troops were killed, if the Taliban struck against the U.S. forces at the airport that the U.S. would respond forcefully.

That message was received loud and clear from the Taliban. And so, now this moves into a new phase. The Department of State will use whatever leverage it has left. Not necessarily military leverage but leverage in terms of the world community. And they will use that leverage to try and get any Americans who are left who want to leave out and also any Afghan allies who are threatened by the Taliban, they will be working tirelessly to do that.

PERINO: Jen, Greg has got comment here.

GUTFELD: Well, one of the things about the enemy of the enemy is my friend is that that can work in reverse ways. If ISIS hates us then why can't join Taliban. That's the problem with the enemy versus enemy thing.

PAVLICH: Exactly.

GUTFELD: So, we're never sure. And I know that this might have already been answered over the weekend. But, you know, were there any Taliban killed in the suicide bombing? I don't know.

PERINO: The Taliban say so, yes.

GUTFELD: They did?

RIVERA: It is reasonable to assume.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Really?

RIVERA: There was 120 killed.

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: That's a pretty big blast.

GUTFELD: But I just haven't heard it, that's all.

PERINO: But they have. Yes.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Jen, I did have a question about the interpreters and other helpers. There have been some private efforts going on to try to help them get out. A lot of them are turned away. Sometimes paperwork issues or whatever it might have been, they couldn't get to the airport. A lot of them from our reporting and what we're hearing is that they are targeted and hunted down. Where does that go from here?

GRIFFIN: Well, Dana, it's interesting. The last two weeks it was not paperwork issues that were the problem. Those restrictions were dropped as soon as the Taliban took over and the U.S. military were back in to begin these evacuations. So those -- that paperwork was no longer an issue.

The issue, and we saw this in real time. The issue was getting those vulnerable Afghans, those Afghan allies whether they were SIVs or people who had worked in, in some form with the U.S. government or women's groups who are now going to be targeted by the Taliban, the real issue was getting through Taliban checkpoints.

The Taliban were willing to let Americans through and they were willing to let green card holders through. That's what they told the U.S. military. Sometimes they would turn a blind eye and let a group of Afghans through. But they were -- they did not want educated Afghans to be leaving the country. They need them to build the country.

And so, the real problem for most of the SIVs and others who wanted to get to the airport was that those Taliban checkpoints on the periphery. People would try five, six times. We would be on the phone with them and hearing how they would get turned back at that checkpoint and it was absolutely gut wrenching.

So now we move into a new phase. Perhaps there would be a land bridge corridor out of the country where convoys of some of these vulnerable Afghans will be escorted by friendly countries who maybe are still on the ground in Afghanistan working with the State Department. But those efforts are continuing. They're just moving into a new phase.

PERINO: Got it. We want to go to Trey Yingst. He's in Doha, Qatar. But before we do, Pete, let me ask you one comment on anything that was said.

HEGSETH: Jennifer, great -- great understanding of the situation on the ground. You know, as was mentioned in the briefing they said a few hundred are left behind. You mentioned the enemy. We've talked about the enemy of my enemy.

How does in a dynamic situation like that when we know American citizens are left behind. We know SIV holders are left behind. The Taliban can spin it as we need their skills. But they now have their names and their biometric data in many cases, which makes them targets.

What leverage do we have to prevent in the middle of a civil war which is likely to be unleashed to prevent these American citizens or allies of ours from becoming hostages from becoming poker chips in a game between two groups that want that leverage?

GRIFFIN: I think that is a real, a very serious danger, Pete. And any American citizen who is left behind, they are vulnerable to hostage taking. We know of one hostage who is still being held by the Haqqani network.

But the real, the really vulnerable, the most vulnerable people I think are those who worked as translators and worked or members of the ANA, the Afghan National Army, the special forces, the people who fought alongside the U.S. military.

Those people left behind. The Taliban they are going to be at the top of the list for the Taliban going to seek retribution. I find it hard to believe that the Taliban would want to go and seek out and kill Americans. You're right. They could be hostage and bargaining chips. but the ones that are most vulnerable are Afghans who worked with us and who weren't able to get out.

PERINO: Jen, thank you so much. You stand by. Trey Yingst has been in Doha, Qatar for us. And Trey, let's get your thoughts on what you're hearing and seeing as one book ends and another one begins.

TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, we heard CENCOM General Frank McKenzie breaking down the numbers. Six thousand Americans evacuated since the Taliban took over. But you still have 250 according to the U.S. State Department on the ground in Afghanistan.

And this question of leverage will be the question on everyone's mind moving forward. The United States does not have much leverage over the Taliban in terms of negotiating the safe passage, not of these Americans but those estimated 80,000 Special Immigrant Visa holders, Afghans who helped the United States over the 20 years to make their way out of the country.

It's such a dire situation on the ground. We are seeing reports out of countries like Iran and Pakistan and Tajikistan of Afghans fleeing on foot. The United Nations estimating over the next few weeks half a million Afghans could flee the country over land boarders because they don't have this critical air bridge anymore.

And that leverage question is going to remain about how the United States will be able to use diplomacy. We heard General McKenzie basically say that they will have to rely not only on allies but that loose relationship with the Taliban saying we are going to negotiate very hard and very aggressively to get those Afghans out. What those negotiations will look like it's really anyone's guess.

GUTFELD: Can I --

PERINO: Trey, -- yes, go ahead, Greg.

GUTFELD: I think this is like a key point here. It isn't about the military. This was not a successful airlift. I'm sorry. It wasn't.

RIVERA: We -- 120,000 --

GUTFELD: I mean, you know, this is the worst military operation I have ever seen. And it had nothing to do with the military. It had to do with a government that let them down. We are the greatest military on earth. And we are at the -- we have to rely on the Taliban. Just putting that sentence together makes you sad. And I --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: We lost the war, dude.

GUTFELD: I know we did. I know that. And by the way, I'm very happy that we're getting out of there. But we cannot forget how awful this was and how it let down a lot of people for -- there are a lot of veterans who are looking at this and they are sick to their stomach. And I think the idea of saying how successful this is we're polishing a turd.

PAVLICH: Yes, I agree.

RIVERA: Polishing a turd.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Trey, I did -- I have one question for you if you are still there. I wanted to ask you about the evacuees who are there in Doha, or perhaps in other places in the region. There are thousands of them. What's that process like. The State Department is getting ready to brief us on the next steps. I mean, part of that is the vetting of any of these refugees, the resettlement of these refugees, and you know, what are possible efforts are going to be here.

YINGST: Well, look, many of the Afghans who arrive here in Qatar and other places across the region are currently homeless. They're waiting in facilities, nice facilities but they are facilities nonetheless where they are basically going to try to figure out where they are going to head next.

And many of the evacuees we talked with had no idea. They were simply just happy to be out of Taliban territory. And we can expect some trickle of people in the coming days and weeks from Kabul. Because we know that the United States wants to push to get the airport open again. Likely countries like Qatar or Turkey will help the Taliban to do so.

And General McKenzie wanted to make very clear that the Americans were very specific when they left to destroy certain military equipment and not touch others. So, we actually saw the airport equipment and all of the things you would need to run an airport not touched by the U.S. military to ensure they will be able to get that airport operating again and get evacuees out.

But it's a very big question about where these evacuees will go. Qatar took in tens of thousands, at one point it was about 40,000 Afghan refugees waiting here looking for permanent homes. And we've all seen those really heartwarming images of translators and those who worked with the United States who went through the appropriate visa process had the vetting done and then arrived at places like Dulles airport just outside of Washington where they were greeted by people by signs and just welcoming them to the country.

Because it was such a difficult process for many of these Afghans as they left the country, taking five and six days just to get to that airport through Taliban checkpoints and then, obviously, that blast on Thursday just capping off such a tragic experience for the Afghan people and for the American military on the ground there.

PERINO: We are waiting for a State Department briefing that Secretary Antony Blinken is supposed to be conducting. It was going to start at 5 p.m. so they're running about 25 minutes late.

(CROSSTALK)

PAVLICH: I have a question, too.

GUTFELD: Go ahead.

PAVLICH: Do you mind if I --

GUTFELD: Sure. Go for it.

PAVLICH: OK. Trey, Katie here. I just wanted to ask you a question about the power structure in the region. Obviously, the Taliban is now armed to the teeth with $85 billion worth of our U.S. military equipment. You have China already saying they may recognize the Taliban. You have Russia doing a lot of the communication in the country. And of course, Qatar has been isolated from its neighbors like the UAE and Bahrain in the past for supporting terrorism.

So, if you can talk about kind of this, this is not just the end of a war. This is a complete shift of geopolitical power in the region as a result of us leaving.

YINGST: Absolutely. You make an excellent point when you talk about the military equipment the Taliban now has control of. This is by no means a mission accomplished moment for the Biden administration. You heard General McKenzie there talking about how 2,700 Humvees were destroyed --

GUTFELD: Right.

YINGST: -- before the Americans left the Hamid Karzai International Airport. The New York Times came out with a graphic overnight indicating the Taliban now has control of 22,000 Humvees along with a number of other aircraft and helicopters, jets, small arms. I mean, the list really goes on of American funded military equipment that was in the hands of the Afghan Security Forces now in the hands of the Taliban.

So, they're not only able to strengthen their military side, along with reinforcing the ranks with fighters that they actually released from prison, but you also have other actors in the region, extremist actors. Not only ISIS that we have to look at. But groups like Al Qaeda. We saw those images at the prison next to Bagram Air Base of Al Qaeda fighters along with Taliban militants being released from prison.

And overnight there was a new video of a very senior Al Qaeda member who had been basically in exile in hiding in Pakistan for over a decade return today to Afghanistan. And it really gives you a sense on the ground of the types of players who will now be allowed to operate in Afghanistan.

And despite these pledges by the Taliban that they will not allow the country to become a breeding ground for terror that could ultimately affect the west. Once the Americans are gone as they are today, it's anyone's guess as to what happens next. But the picture being painted right now on Afghanistan is not very bright.

PERINO: Do you want to comment on the equipment.

HEGSETH: Yes. No. Greg, what, absolutely of course what we've done is legitimized the terrorist state and give them the best equipment in the world.

GUTFLED: It's demeaning.

HEGSETH: All that negotiations over the last two weeks whether it was pragmatic or not was legitimizing of the Taliban.

But Greg, I want to affirm what you said. Afghan vets across the country are sick to their stomach. They are watching our government polish a turd. And what have they done as a result, they have gone out and saved their own Afghan allies themselves.

PAVLICH: Right.

HEGSETH: They've taken upon themselves --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: That's what we did that.

HEGSETH: -- leaving no man behind.

RIVERA: We did at Fox got 24 out.

HEGSETH: Fox did it, but multiply that by thousands and thousands and thousands of people with no reason, no private plane --

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: But isn't this the same as Vietnam, though, major.

HEGSETH: It's not the same as Vietnam.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Isn't it the -- I mean, --

HEGSETH: How many Vietnam vets were personally coordinated because the government wouldn't to go back into that.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: No. Not the -- not the evacuation but the --

HEGSETH: So, ultimately, it happened faster.

RIVERA: -- the sickness.

HEGSETH: Our failure was more imminent. Of course, the sickness is there. You talk to Vietnam vets it persist and that's why it's such a problem.

PERINO: Right.

HEGSETH: That's why when we watch officials at the podium try to sell us as if this is the most historic airlift we've ever seen.

PERINO: Right.

HEGSETH: First of all, that 123,000, that's about to be a gigantic debate.

GUTFELD: Yes.

HEGSETH: Because we were so hasty and so -- and such a fraught process that the amount of people we brought through who probably shouldn't qualify to get through is immense. What's that vetting process like? Who takes care of them? And then the Afghan allies and American citizens who are still left behind. And by the way, soon to be hostages.

PAVLICH: Right.

HEGSETH: ISIS is hunting those people right now. The Taliban knows who they are right now. So, if you're an American citizen you're a war of a prize. if you're a translator the Taliban would love to have you. They didn't let you on the plane to begin with.

So, this is a -- this is a disaster of epic proportions. I'm grateful that our military executed in getting the boys that are still there out. But that's why I asked the question of Jennifer Griffin that I did. Not that I wanted to get into the finger pointing. But you saw DOD come to the podium and give their narrative.

You are about to see the secretary of state come up to the podium and give his narrative.

GUTFELD: Right.

HEGSETH: Because everyone in Washington knows what a disaster this truly was and they want to point the finger at somebody.

GUTFELD: Exactly. And that's the -- I mean, think about this. The fact that like when he was talking about, he was giving these numbers. And he said 27 Humvees. I'm remembering this chart and going like, we just created the world's largest military store.

HEGSETH: Yes.

GUTFELD: Because -- because the Taliban --

PAVLICH: Yes.

GUTFELD: -- they're not going to keep all those guns for themselves.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: They are going to sell those guns to the person who wants to buy it. And I think that's where the relationship with ISIS isn't going to be so bad between the two of them.

PERINO: Yes. And that's the other thing --

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: -- about the nature of the enemy.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I mean, that hasn't change.

GUTFELD: No.

PERINO: If you're talking about the enemy of our enemy is our friend. But one thing that ISIS and the Taliban in common is radical Islamic ideology.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: They're the scorpion, we're the frog.

PERINO: And Pete, that's not changed.

HEGSETH: That hasn't changed at all.

GUTFELD: Yes.

HEGSETH: In fact, if the Taliban decided to become 2.0 or 3.0, they would lose their legitimacy to such a degree that whether it's Haqqani or Al Qaeda or ISIS would garner support.

GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: I get it. I get it.

HEGSETH: They can't compromise. If they compromise, they're seen as impure. Radical Islam is inherent and tyrannical. They will have to follow through.

RIVERA: Then why did President Trump wants to end the war?

HEGSETH: Why do you make it about Trump? Why is this about Trump? This is Joe Biden and his State Department and his DOD (INAUDIBLE) leave Afghanistan.

RIVERA: Because I want everyone to know this is Joe Biden and Donald Trump. These are the last two --

HEGSETH: He scrapped every other deal --

RIVERA: One a Republican

HEGSETH: He scrapped every other deal --

RIVERA: One Republican and one Democrat.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Damn it. You have to recognize that we've wanted out of this 20 year war. What do you want to fight this? It's always easy to get the audience --

HEGSETH: (INAUDIBLE)

RIVERA: It's always easy to get the audience applause when you say, let's go, let's attack the bad guys. Let's bomb them. Let's go. We'll get them. Come on team, let's charge up --

HEGSETH: No one is doing that. I didn't say that.

RIVERA: That's what -- that's what this attitude is.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: No said that. No, no, here has agreed that we need to leave Afghanistan.

RIVERA: Everybody hates losing a war. Nobody likes losing a war. We have lost this war.

GUTFELD: I am -- that's not what (INAUDIBLE)

RIVERA: Here is the leverage we have that --

GUTFELD: You can't read my mind.

RIVERA: Here is the leverage we have. Afghanistan doesn't have $1 in the bank. They don't have --

HEGSETH: They have lots of opium.

RIVERA: They can't pay. They have -- China is going to ruin the day that they take over Afghanistan as a puppet state. They're going to have the same fate as anybody else. But my point is, Afghanistan has a government. How are they going to pay to put the lights on? How are they going to pay the -- to pick up the garbage? How is it going to pay the teachers?

HEGSETH: Does the Taliban cares about garbage collection.

KATIE PAVLICH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CONTRIBUTOR: There's no teacher in Afghanistan.

RIVERA: How are they going to tell those -- how are they going to pay -- how are they going to pay the Taliban warriors?

HEGSETH: What are you talking about garbage collection?

GUTFELD: How about daycare center?

(CROSSTALK)

HEGSETH: You think the Taliban cares about garbage collection?

RIVERA: They need part of the --

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL ANCHOR: Like the Taliban become Hezbollah. I mean, that's -- maybe it's possible. Maybe, I don't know.

RIVERA: They will become Hezbollah. They will become Hezbollah.

PERINO: Jacqui Heinrich, she's at the White House for us. And, you know, we've heard -- as Peter said, we've heard from the Defense Department. We're waiting any moment now for the State Department. But we -- I don't know if we will hear from President Biden today. Jacqui Heinrich here at the White House, can you give us an update there?

JACQUI HEINRICH, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we did see the President earlier today. He was giving a discussion on Hurricane Ida. And what strikes me is that we heard from the general at the Pentagon that no American citizens were on the last five military flights to leave Kabul.

So, when we saw the President earlier today, he knew at that point in time that there were no more Americans coming home. And then immediately following that pool spray where we saw him for a few minutes, we had a briefing with White House press secretary Jen Psaki. She was asked a couple of times about, you know, where things stand, did not indicate we're going to be seeing this transpire.

You can guess that that's because she didn't want to, you know, tip-off any sort of -- put our troops in any risk for some sort of an attack as they're finishing their withdrawal which is, as we know, the retrograde period is the most dangerous period. But that just sort of sticks out to me.

We did have some discussion in that briefing about know where things go from here, because we were just 24 hours away from the withdrawal deadline, what are over the horizon capabilities look like? What that economic and diplomatic leverage looks like and whether it's going to amount to much.

But you know, Jen Psaki said when she was asked, was this mission accomplished? She said, well, I'd point you to the fact that 120,000 lives were saved, but I'll let you decide for yourself. I think the President's going to have to, you know, be the one to speak on that whether this is considered a mission accomplished or just a mission finished.

But it certainly has wrapped up and now we do have that remaining continuing effort to get the Americans home 250, potentially, of them and countless Afghan allies. Dana?

PERINO: All right, Jacqui, thank you so much. Katie, you had a thought?

PAVLICH: I just think, you know, this was supposed to be Joe Biden's moment. He was the one who was going to finally end the war in Afghanistan. And he's -- he wasn't the one to announce this to the American people. And we still haven't heard from him. I mean, I understand the Pentagon coming out maybe after the president making an announcement to answer some questions about details of what's going to happen, the details, about who was on the plane, the number of people, etcetera.

But the idea that Joe Biden is not speaking as the commander-in-chief about ending the war in Afghanistan and being the first one to say so I think follows the pattern of what -- how seriously he's taken this over the past two weeks.

But just in terms of America and where we are, and the feelings that everybody is having, we've gone from, leave no man behind to, "we did not get out everyone we wanted to get out" knowing that these people were --

HEGSETH: A few hundred.

PAVLICH: A few hundred people. And I just think back to everything that's happened. Bowe Bergdahl, for example, where our troops are put at risk to get him when he was a deserter to get him back. And that was the big talking point, no man left behind. And now, we as America, allowed the Taliban to dictate our security, to take over the country. And then we didn't have any kind of deterrence to say, we're not going to leave until we get our people out.

Now, you can help with that. You can make it faster or not. But the idea that we just left and are OK with this attitude of well, a few hundred people are still there. Hopefully, we'll be able to get them out. And we'll work with the Taliban to do it. We don't have a diplomatic presence on the ground. I think that really is -- we'll see how that goes, but I just think that's a huge change in the way that we think about leaving people behind in this country.

PERINO: So Jennifer Griffin has stayed with us. She's still at the Pentagon as we await the State Department briefing. Any thoughts on that, Jennifer, in terms of -- you know, the numbers of Americans, it's gone -- it's been wildly different every day. But I guess maybe they've narrowed it down to a few hundred. Is that right?

JENNIFER GRIFFIN, FOX NEWS CHANNEL NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I think they know what we need to keep in perspective here. And I understand the emotions that Katie's feeling right now. We all have been through so much. We've been talking about not leaving people behind. And what we have just seen in the last two weeks is an incredible relationship between veterans groups, private citizens, heroes, all of them, and the U.S. government in terms of not leaving people behind.

And so we can quibble right now about whether it's 250 Americans. Do we really know that all of those Americans want to come out? Anyone -- any American who wants to leave Afghanistan, I guarantee you, they will find a way to get them safely out of the country. You still have an airport in Mazar-i-Sharif, you still have a land bridge to Uzbekistan, to Pakistan. There are ways to get those people out.

I think we really need to have some perspective on what was just accomplished in the last two weeks. The U.S. military could have said, we're not going back in. We're not going to risk American lives to go back and get all of these allies, Afghan allies, SIV holders out. They did not do that. They went back in under a very difficult circumstance. They fought their way back in. They re-controlled an airport, and they got 122,000 people, including 6000 Americans to safety.

Now, the numbers of Americans left, I'm not diminishing that -- the fear that any of those Americans may feel right now. But again, some of them are people who are older, Afghans who have dual passports who've never been to the United States, who prefer to stay in their village out in, you know, outside of Kabul, where they might still feel secure.

Some of you may be pregnant, Afghan women who -- American women who have dual passports, who've decided that they want to stay. I can't say for certain, but what I can say is what I saw behind the scenes here at the Pentagon, as well as with all of the nonprofit groups that I've worked with over the years, and I know Pete has worked with, this was an unbelievable American effort and no other country in the world could have pulled off what we just pulled off.

PERINO: And you think, Pete, of the 13 that died, one of the pictures was of Nicole Gee who was there holding little a baby and posting that she loves her job.

HEGSETH: Hold a little baby.

PERINO: I mean, the nature of our troops was incredible.

HEGSETH: The absolute best of the best. When you know there was a threat assessment at that gate, more or less at that moment, which we may learn more about in the future, and yet your disposition is to still be the arm of the American government reaching out to say we won't leave anybody behind, understanding the threat to yourself, it's remarkable. It lends you to the kinds of soliloquy we've had today rightfully so.

GUTFELD: Our leaders don't deserve them.

HEGSETH: Our leaders don't deserve them. You're exactly right.

GUTFELD: You know what, the other thing too, I keep hearing about these, you know, these -- maybe they're anecdotal atrocities of this new improved Taliban hanging people, killing people, shooting people. I would like to see if people who are -- like, the commander is saying that, you know, this is a different Taliban. Why aren't they executing their own? Have we heard of the Taliban executing their own for breaking these rules?

Like, if one of their soldiers -- one of their soldiers does some -- perform some atrocity? Why aren't they killing them? I would like to hear that. That might make me think they've changed. The other problem is that they do change, a lot of them are going to leave and join ISIS, so --

HEGSETH: That's true.

RIVERA: But you know, a lot of Afghans have been leaving Afghanistan for a long time. The refugee crisis in 2018, 2019 in Greece and all of Eastern Europe, those are Afghans who had walked all the way across Afghanistan, all the way across Iran, all the way across Iraq, got into Turkey, walked all the way across Turkey, and then crossed into Greece.

There's thousands and thousands of Afghans have been fleeing even before this monumental event. Afghanistan is a -- is a deeply impoverished, violent place. I don't anticipate the violence level will diminish at all because of the Taliban. The Taliban is like 18 different groups anyway. You know -- and you got all the ethnic differences there in Afghanistan.

You've got the Tajiks, the Uzbeks. You've got the Hazaras, you've got, you know, the Pashtuns. You got all these different groups who think that they have primacy. It's a mess. And that's why I think that if China hits this tar baby, their hands are going to stick right to it.

PERINO: All right, Katie.

PAVLICH: I just had -- I just wanted to ask Jennifer question, another question.

PERINO: OK.

PAVLICH: She brought up -- oh, she's not here. OK. So, she mentioned a lot of the NGOs and private organizations that have been helping, and Pete, you can talk about this too, but it is been incredible to see as a result of the crisis of this happening so quickly, and people on the ground being caught off guard, like operation Pineapple Express, for example, where veterans went over, and they knew the streets of Kabul, and they were able to go and find their guys, and get them out.

And so, I think that once we look back on this and have, you know, process a lot of this, looking at how they were able to do that, and they went in and knew exactly where to go, who to get, and be able to get them out safely is going to be quite the story to tell. And to hear from the people they rescued once they're either safe in the United States or a third party country is going to be quite harrowing to listen to.

HEGSETH: There's a -- there's a movie to be had there for all the right reasons. I do think there is a bit of -- and Jennifer is rights, there's been coordination between those groups and the government. But there's a bit of revisionism going on to believe that there was coordination from the beginning.

This was veterans groups and outside groups pushing, pushing, pushing, finding willing counterparts inside the wire who were willing to break protocol at certain gates to bring American citizens and Afghans in. Eventually, the State Department and the DOD caught up with the idea that they're best advocates in juicing the numbers in getting people across were those outside veterans networks which is amazing.

One more thing about what Jennifer said too. I believe completely, that the Pentagon has been wholeheartedly dedicated to this evacuation turned retreat. There's no doubt I have no doubt about the commitment and patriotism of people inside the Pentagon. What the Pentagon and the State Department of the White House are going to have to deal with is what we were going to talk about later on the show, which is the fact that 84 percent of Americans believe that Biden's withdrawal policy was a failure.

PERINO: Yes.

HEGSETH: So, you can -- you can -- you can't say we did everything we could, it was so great. Look at everything we did, it was historic. That doesn't comport with what Americans have seen with their own eyes. And there will be --

PERINO: So, that's what I wanted to bring up. And we're going to bring Trey to weigh in on this because he's still with us. You know, I agree with everything that Pete just said. A lot of what you saw was in terms of getting those flights out, amazing. But many of the things that the administration has said, including from the President himself, for several weeks now have not matched with what we can see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears from our own reporting on the ground.

You've reported on that too, Trey. And I think that's one of the reasons that one, the veterans are frustrated, the American people are coming up with number like 84 percent. You've probably couldn't get Americans to agree on a Mother's Day resolution at 84 percent. And now, you have this.

And that mismatch of what we were hearing and seeing and what was being said by the administration at that time was extremely frustrating.

TREY YINGST, FOX NEWS CHANNEL FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. There was a deep frustration by individuals on the ground who actually made it to the airport about the words coming out of Washington. We talked with families when we were at the airport in Kabul last Sunday. And they described these harrowing scenes of being blocked not only at Taliban checkpoints, but then the area outside. There was such confusion.

Even if you had a U.S. passport, it was not a cakewalk to get onto the airport grounds. And this description that we saw so often by officials in Washington explaining how people could simply walk to the airport and get through was just not the reality. And I think you're going to hear this over and over again, as people analyze what went wrong, and also where the communication breakdown happened.

We also talked with troops on the ground, though. And I think it's important to distinguish between the politicians in D.C. and those who were on the ground conducting and following through on the mission. Many of the officers and soldiers that we spoke with were happy to be there. And when we saw that tragic explosion on Thursday, I thought back to some of those conversations, and just the smiles of the American forces who were on the ground there. They were happy to be there, to be handing out food and water to these Afghan civilians, because they were not there for war.

The war was coming to an end. They were there for peace. They were there for humanitarian reasons. And that was very clear. So, the mismatch between what was happening on the ground and the statements we heard out of officials in Washington, very, very different.

PERINO: We'll continue to wait for the State Department briefing. It was supposed to start at 5:00 p.m. They're about 45 minutes late so, we'll see what happens.

The other thing, Greg, in terms of processes, it's not just what you saw today -- or even yesterday, Jake Sullivan at the White House saying well, it was the generals.

GUTFELD: Exactly, blend and build for Bagram.

PERINO: Yes. And also -- but then there's also the State Department for months, they've been being told by like a group like No One Left Behind. Like, this visa process needs to get sped up and it wasn't -- and COVID was one of the reasons.

GUTFELD: And there was a lot of finger-pointing going on from the government. And the blaming the military for Bagram was one of them. And I think what you learned is what did the government really want? They wanted superior optics, right?

So, they wanted to keep a fewer amount of troops which meant they couldn't do Bagram. So, they -- maybe it was the military who decided not to do Bagram, but they were dealing with the constraints handed to them by the government that said, you got to get this done before 9/11 so the President can like, have that on that anniversary. And that's really important. And we need to do it with a lot less troops because the optics of having a lot of troops is bad.

So, this was all about some symbolism and optics, not about saving lives at all.

PERINO: Lindsey Graham, a senator from South Carolina, I think we have time for this, had some thoughts about what does this mean going forward? Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The chance of another 9/11 just went through the roof. President Biden said that he wanted to take this Afghanistan off the plate for future presidents. He's done the exact opposite. For the next 20 years, American presidents would be dealing with this catastrophe in Afghanistan. This war has not ended. We've entered into a new deadly chapter. Terrorist are now in charge of Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, a lot of people have that view, but some people don't. I think Geraldo wants to weigh in here.

RIVERA: Well, I think first of all, Senator Graham, with all due respect, never met a war he didn't like. He is for the flamboyant use of the United States Military for resolving political -- sometimes political disputes.

I watched him. Every time there is a crisis, regardless of where it is, what country, he wants to bomb it, he wants to get the military involved, he wants to commit our forces overseas. I think that the military- industrial complex is a real thing. It was a real lobby toward war and action. And it's not the veterans groups. The veterans groups having experienced war, they know what war is like. These guys, the politicians, they don't -- they come cruising in, VIP. They land for two, three days. They're gone, they're back home, and they tell the constituents here I was at the frontline with the troops.

The people who have to fight the wars, they're the ones who are the ones that can tell us when the application of force is appropriate. And it's a sacred obligation to apply that force in a prudent way, in a patriotic way, but not in a way that is egregiously aggressive. Use your power when your power can accomplish something.

I also want to say, I think that, you know, to diminish -- and Jen also agree -- to diminish the 120,000, you got to be real careful there. Vietnam was about the same number of people. We got out of Vietnam. We got into Guam, eventually to the United States including the Hmong tribesmen member, this -- the gymnast, the Hmong who won the gold medal for the United States of America. Immigrant vigor, this is not going to be horrible for the United States. And for Graham to say that the chance of another 9/11, that's so reckless and irresponse.

PAVLICH: How was that -- when Afghanistan is now run by the Taliban --

RIVERA: They plan the 9/11 in Hamburg, Germany. They then plan it in Afghanistan.

PAVLICH: Well, Osama bin Laden was harbored in Afghanistan, and the Taliban harbored al-Qaeda and al-Qaeda is now back and his security is now rolling back into Afghanistan today. And we've handed a country that we fought in for 20 years back to the very terrorist group that we went there to --

PERINO: But at our time.

PAVLICH: I want to say something real quickly about you say diminishing the 100,000 plus people who were who were airlifted out. It's not diminishing that process. It's the idea that people from these lecterns are arguing that it was some great achievement when they're not answering the question about why are we having an airlift in the first place because they didn't listen to intelligence, they weren't prepared. They claimed they had all these contingencies ready to go. They clearly did not.

So, it's not about saying, oh, well, that's not enough people or even though obviously, you can get a lot more people out if they plan more carefully. The issue is that the way this went down. It's not about not wanting to get out of Afghanistan. It's how we got out of Afghanistan is the issue.

HEGSETH: That's exactly right. It was the ham-handed process of that number. I was in touch with people in touch with -- in touch with the folks at the gate. In many cases, they didn't know who was coming in. There was a vouching process. And then it was the family members alongside them. And I'm as passionate as anybody else about making sure that our allies come in.

They're dancing around about a number they didn't create, and that they don't have a sense of what it entails completely. And frankly, they're dancing around as hundreds of American citizens are still there.

Yes, it is veterans who understand the battlefield better than anyone else and want to avoid it. We're also the ones that are going to go back and have to fight it if we leave behind the legitimize terrorist state.

And I agree with leaving Afghanistan, I think we should have. We're long since should have. But it's like any sports fan who watches seven games of an NBA Finals. You watch teams compete all the way through and all that anyone ever remembers is the last shot in the last 15 seconds. And what we've done in that last 15 seconds, is airball the way that we executed our withdrawal from Afghanistan and that's what our -- the world remembers. That's what our enemies remember. That's what the Haqqani Network remember.

Haqqani Network, Jalaluddin Haqqani was one of the greatest mentors of Osama bin Laden. His network is now the number two of the Taliban and in charge of Kabul. That's a situation because of how we executed not just the last year, but 20 years, that we are part of creating.

RIVERA: 9/11.

HEGSETH: And to dance around and say, 123,000, look at how great that is, is to create a revisionist view of the end of this war.

GUTFELD: And we still have a couple of hundred people there.

RIVERA: Major Hegseth, who were the 9/11 hijackers? Was there an Afghan among them?

HEGSETH: 15 of the 19 were Saudi Arabians.

RIVERA: Saudi Arabia, our blessed ally who have been abusing women --

(CROSSTALK)

HEGSETH: This like Taliban propaganda. They're the ones that denied that the Osama bin Laden was involved in 9/11.

RIVERA: Were they -- you just said they're from Saudi Arabia, right?

HEGSETH: Are you denying that Osama bin Laden --

RIVERA: Where is Osama bin Laden -- where is he from? Where is he from? Where is Osama bin Laden from?

PERINO: That was the point about the (INAUDIBLE) ideology.

HEGSETH: Where was he?

PERINO: I want to bring up -- OK, wait, we got a hold of a breaking news. So, the State Department now says 6:00 p.m. is when Anthony Blinken will come out. That was a lot of breaking news.

GUTFELD: Is he still in the Hamptons?

PERINO: No. I think he's at the State Department.

RIVERA: (INAUDIBLE)

PERINO: But Greg, one thing that is a lot different from September 10, 2001 is that our capabilities to fight counterterrorism are much greater today than --

GUTFELD: I think I agree. But also, I almost cannot protect that same way I couldn't predict 9/11 what that kind of -- it was just box cutters in planes. It wasn't rocket science, but they turned planes into rockets. That's what they did. I never could have thought --

RIVERA: They have to go into flight school.

GUTFELD: Yes, yes. I could never have thought about that. So, whatever we're -- it almost -- it's an achievement and creativity for us to continue to think about whether it's going to be bio or it's -- like for example, if they paralyze our grid, then we just turn on each other. If we don't have ATMs, we don't have money, we don't have work, then that's all -- that's all they need to do. So, they have to start thinking in that way. You don't have to be in Afghanistan anymore to do that, right?

RIVERA: Right.

GUTFELD: You could be anywhere. You could be one dude. I mean, I would go back to the Vegas shooter, right? We thought that was ISIS because it was so -- it was so devastating. But there was something else I wanted to bring up that kind of irks me. Where are all the stories with anonymous sourcing?

PAVLICH: Yes.

GUTFELD: Where is that? Remember, if Donald Trump broke wind, CNN would have six anonymous sources with a decibel reading, right? And it's like, the media has agreed for some reason not to press this administration for anonymous sources or quotes during what is probably the biggest -- I know, it's still early in his administration, but the biggest failure of his administration. It's humiliating.

HEGSETH: You're right. There's a lot of --

PERINO: Actually, the only anonymous sources so far have been the ones trying to defend them.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. Isn't that weird? What a coincidence.

PAVLICH: I will say to Geraldo, you brought up flight school. Well, why were those guys here in flight school? Because they had visas. So, when Lindsey Graham talks about, you know, making sure that people are vetted, and then come to the country, we make sure that we know who they are with proper vetting, it's because we don't want to cause some kind of issue where we allow people into the country and they attack us here, and then we have to go and fight another war for 20 years. Also, I think --

RIVERA: The Vegas shooter was an angry American.

PERINO: Can I just say something here. Here's a statement from President Biden. This just in. He says, "Tomorrow afternoon, I will address the American people on my decision not to extend our presence in Afghanistan beyond August 31. For now, I will report that it was the unanimous recommendation of the Joint Chiefs."

I'm just going to jump in here on this part. So, Pete, in the last three weeks, President Biden has said I might change the date, I might not. Maybe that was because they wanted to have the element of surprise, or maybe because I didn't know. He also said I'm going to extend the perimeter, but maybe I won't. I'm going to do this, and then -- and I think in some ways, if that was tactical and strategic, that'd be --

HEGSETH: It would be wonderful. It was.

PERINO: -- interesting to see. But it doesn't feel like that based on the reporting that we were seeing from the ground.

HEGSETH: No, and I think, to hear the end of that statement based on the consensus of the Joint Chiefs, which, Greg, to your point, if this had been Trump, there would be leaks all over the place about every single decision and how much consternation there was and how wrong he was.

I mean, General Milley was happy to go to the podium after he walked to a church. He won't take to a podium about anything now. That consensus says one of two things to me. One, they really did recommend the military recommendations like Bagram, like not accepting the Taliban's agreement to not come into Kabul, all the other aspects.

So, maybe they have made those bad decisions, or they didn't agree with them and they were willing to stay silent, which to me is just as problematic. Because if you're a military leader, you should be willing to have to stand up and be that dissident voice in those moments. I don't know which one it is. I guess we'll find out possibly.

PERINO: The statement from Biden also says that the world will hold the Taliban accountable for safe passage.

GUTFELD: The world is watching.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: We always hear that, don't we?

HEGSETH: International community.

PERINO: Yes. Earlier today, they had I think the -- I was going to call him the Prime Minister -- the Chief of Staff Ron Klain tweeted that statement that there are I think 100 nations, Geraldo, have said they're all on board to try to help make sure that this doesn't turn into terrorism.

RIVERA: Well, we know 9/11. 9/11 was low tech as we know, flight school box cutters, hijacking, slamming into two of our much -- most high profile buildings and the Pentagon, and the other one went down in the field in Pennsylvania. And we hallow the memory, obviously, of everyone who perished in that horrible, horrible attack on America.

But it was -- you know, we have to be vigilant. That doesn't change. The refugee situation is not going to meaningfully affect it. You know, it could be anybody that could carry a bomb. I think we have to get used to incidents where our security forces foil one of these attacks in the subway or an airport or a school.

But we -- you know, we haven't been that good at stopping, you know, aberrant people bent on homicide. You know, you mentioned Las Vegas. That was an American guy, a sharpshooter guy killed himself in the end. You can go through the list, you know, unfortunately, Sandy Hook and so forth.

We have horrible people on earth who try to affect us. I think that your point and the scariest thing that's been mentioned all day, Greg, is when you mentioned bioterror. You could put nuclear in there as well. You know, Pakistan is a nuclear-armed nation.

GUTFELD: They can make something in the lab.

RIVERA: Or something -- or make something in the lab.

PERINO: I think part of the -- but part of the important thing is --

RIVERA: Look how that crippled us.

PERINO: And I would Pete because you served after this posture change, which was so September 10, 2001, as I recall, the White House communications team stayed late. And it was -- there's a big, terrible story that was coming the next morning. Do you know what it was about? The Dick Cheney energy Task Force. And on September 11, the next morning, nobody talks about that task force ever again, because it changes your perspective, your mind and the mindset, which was OK, we're attacked, so now we have to be on offense.

And I feel like institutionally at the -- in the military, they want to be on offense on this issue, and so does the Intelligence Community, I think.

HEGSETH: Correct. What did that wake us up to, the reality of Islamism and radical Islam, that it is a long war that isn't going away, even if we stopped fighting it. It also woke us up to the limits of what Americans can do and try to recreating societies in nation-building and remaking people, Jeffersonian democracies.

It also woke us up to when you spend all that time and money and resources in one place, you can't spend it somewhere else. So, the Communist Chinese, we have finite resources. It also woke us up to the fecklessness of most of our allies. While we had an ISAF -- while it was an ISAF mission in Afghanistan, the patch I wore on my shoulder that said ISAF, we joked it meant I Saw Americans Fighting.

For the most part, it was an American mission with 50 flags of other countries. There were great Brits, there were great Australians, there were great other countries. I get it. But ultimately, this is --

RIVERA: Prince Harry.

HEGSETH: Prince Harry. Ultimately, this is an American mission. And our vigilance will decide whether or not the threats in the world are at bay.

PERINO: We have two minutes left. The State Department will brief at 6:00. Of course, we'll turn it over to Bret Baier, so we can introduce you to that. Maybe we'll just go around with final thoughts here starting with you.

PAVLICH: I would just add to what Pete was saying about the lessons that have been learned here. And if you remember, you know, everyone was always saying, why can't we get out of Afghanistan? Why are we not winning the war? Well, there was a point during the 20 year process where lawyers were fighting the war, where guys were given their mission, and then when they carried out their mission, they were then threatened to be, you know, court-martialed or brought in front of Congress, and the interrogation program is a good example of this.

And so, you know, the rules of engagement really held back our ability to do a lot of things, both in Afghanistan and Iraq for years. So, reassessing how we win wars instead of doing things like nation-building to get the job done rather than having those -- in your hands of soldiers tied behind their backs, because the lawyers are making phone calls about whether they can do an airstrike or not is how you win instead of lose.

PERINO: Geraldo.

RIVERA: I left the fat job at NBC to go to be war correspondent here at Fox News because friends and neighbors were killed in that that horrible, horrible attack. I was -- it was the greatest moment of my career to be on the air to announce that Osama bin Laden had been killed in 2011, almost 10 years later. That was the end of the war in Afghanistan, in my view. And every year we stayed after that was adding to a tragedy.

PERINO: All right, Pete?

HEGSETH: I just want to salute every single man and woman that served in that conflict and every single one that didn't come home and their families. We're grateful for you today. Your service matter. It was heroic. And our country will not forget regardless of how it ended.

RIVERA: Amen.

PERINO: Greg.

GUTFELD: Two things. One, I -- it's going to come surprising. I don't really trust the Taliban. I also don't trust our leaders who let them eat our lunch, so there you go. And Pete is on my show tonight at 11:00, so you hear more of Pete.

PERINO: You have Pete. So, the president says he will speak tomorrow. The State Department is going to speak at 6:00. There are still people in danger, Americans there. They say they're going to try to get them out and that Secretary Blinken was tasked with asking our allies in other countries to help make sure that they have safe passage. That will be it for us right now. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2021 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2021 VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.