'The Five' react to terror in Texas

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Eric Bolling, this is "The Five."

Last night's "draw Muhammad" contest in Texas, did not just draw Muhammad, it drew two Islamists, who drew return fire.


JOE HARN, GARLAND POLICE OFFICER: Both of them had assault rifles, came around at the back of the car and started shooting at the police car. The police officer in that car began returning fire and struck both men, taking them down.


GUTFELD: The dudes ended up as chalk outlines or what Texans called "etchings." You know you're down South when even the art shows come holstered. Every gallery is the shooting gallery, thankfully.

It's a contrast between to Charlie Hebdo whose editors died helplessly before their heathens. Terrorists in Texas, however, found a far deadlier lead that what's inside your basic pencil. They were dispatched, but the idiocy of the press still stands. Times reporter Rukmini Callimachi tweets, "Free speech aside, why would anyone do something as provocative as hosting a 'Muhammad drawing contest'? Well, the answer is in the question and you expect a reporter whose beat is Islamic extremism would get it.

The First Amendment means zilch if it only protects "hello" and have a "nice day." Protecting safe speech is like protecting an empty safe. And also, when you begin your take on free speech with, "free speech aside," you kind of lose the point. But hey, maybe they were asking for it.


JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No one would ever dispute the right for people to have freedom of speech, especially in their country -- you know it is a constitutional right. But, are questions being Asked, in some ways were they asking to some kind of an attack -- that is obviously not that anyone deserved it, but it was some kind of an invitation for an attack if you like?


GUTFELD: There's always that "but."

This is where we are. Remember, the attacks on our Libyan outpost were blamed on a film by our own government, including Hillary. Meanwhile, six writers dropped out of the Pen American Center gala protesting a freedom of expression award that was going to be given to Charlie Hebdo. So brave these creeps, who got rich off freedom of speech, now think they can decide what speech is.

If your faith is easily threaten by a cartoon that is a big problem. But if you're a journalist and don't get the contest, then it's you who is the real cartoon.

So Andrea, we've said this before, where I like you know -- when people look at events like these and they go, well, they look at the history of provocations, it almost like they are saying, she asked for it.


GUTFELD: You know.

TANTAROS: Well, that's what a lot of the journalists than the one you just played, that's where they were seemingly saying.


TANTAROS: And we've heard before, too, Greg, the president stand in front of the U.N. and say, the future does not belong to those who (inaudible) the Prophet Muhammad. He also had a very similar response during the French attack on Charlie Hebdo. So yes, you see blame going around in different places against the people who, I think, a lot of people in the media think shouldn't be doing this and they're provoking on some level --


TANTAROS: They asked for it. But just to show you how great freedom of speech is in this country, we allow ISIS to have Twitter accounts and they actually telegraph --


TANTAROS: These terrorists. That they were going to be doing this on social media and we allowed it. Now, we should have caught it. But we allow them to do that, because of freedom of speech in our country.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

TANTAROS: It's just -- it's pretty incredible.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Eric. Is it, is it about -- is it provocation or is it actually, educating people on why speech matters?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: It's clearly educating people on why speech matters. It's also a case study of what happens when you try and do that, you have some crazy whackos coming out -- and, and they points out the social media. These guys not only said they called it hash tag #Texasattack and then he said may Allah accept us as Mujahideen. Well, I'm not sure. Maybe he did. Maybe you said your two versions here. You're enjoying them right now. Thank God for the Garland, Texas Police Department who saw it happening and took them down fast. If you saw the -- bullet- riddled car that they stepped out of, you know that -- the two things were in played, the first amendment and the second amendment right there, right?


BOLLING: So clearly it was -- it worked out in -- the right way. However, James Comey, I believe it was who said, we have, we have open at the investigation going on in 50 different states right now.


BOLLING: I don't know if this keeps happening, maybe it won't end this way. Hopefully it does, though.

GUTFELD: Juan -- Eric pointed out it was like an amendment sandwich. They walked right into it. Why do the media see the cartoons as more of a threat than the actual violent terror? It seemed that they spent more of their coverage at least I've noticed more of their coverage looking at the background of the people putting on this event, rather than the background of the people that attacked them.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, first, let me just say, there's no way to ignore the background of the people who set up the event. This woman, Pamela Geller, who set it up is someone who is the provocateur, it don't have any question about it, I don't think that's a matter of -- you know, me saying or anybody on the table is saying, that's what she is. She has ads -- I see sometimes when I'm coming in the box on the buses in New York City that says basically killing Jews is worse - as worse of draws us to Allah. I mean, that's what -- I mean, that's pretty offensive.

GUTFELD: She was quoting -- she's quoting something?

WILLIAMS: Something, yes.


WILLIAMS: But putting that on the buses in New York City, because what she wants to do is make it clear what these Islamists are up to.

TANTAROS: She's provocative, but is she -- she's correct on a lot of things. She makes a lot of point.

WILLIAMS: Look, I -- look, this is the odd part for me. I mean, you're talking to someone here who has been punished, fired for speaking out and punished by people who were activists in the Muslim community, who put pressure on NPR to fire me. But I'm telling you, I understand why -- for example, I was struck when the Charlie Hebdo incident happened that The New York Times refused to publish the cartoon --


WILLIAMS: And I want to know what this cartoon that caused these --


WILLIAMS: People to be attacked? Right? And so my newspapers don't cover it. The Washington Post plans a little, little thing. You know, Washington Journal didn't put it in there until the end.

GUTFELD: And that basically that means, radical Islam succeeds.

WILLIAMS: Well, but they --

GUTFELD: People are terrified.

WILLIAMS: Well they say that it's provocative and juvenile. And you know, look, I lived through (inaudible) Christ and I am a very strong Christian, but I got to tell you, I don't remember being violent over it.

GUTFELD: And also, I mean book of Mormon is considered one of the greatest works of musical comedy and there are other things that involve using Elephant dong (ph) with the Virgin Mary.


GUTFELD: These things are all considered art K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Not my kind of art and I did not enjoy the evening -- at book of Mormons, but many people do.


GUILFOYLE: It's not my cup of tea. But anyway, so what I think about hoe is -- yes, Pamela Geller is making a point, but she's not the problem. In fact, what she is pointing out had been accurate and it's living out right in front of our very eyes on TV. The fact that they have this, you know cartoon contest doesn't give the radical Islamists and Jihadist license to kill and come in and terrorize Americans. I mean, this is the principal that this country was founded on liberty and freedom of speech and they got today, the other one I love, Justice Texas file, drop them like they are hot. There you go.

GUTFELD: Look Andrea --

GUILFOYLE: A pistol against AK-47.

GUTFELD: This maybe think it would be -- are events like these helpful by drawing out the extremists? They are like a bug lamp. You know what's in the police --


GUTFELD: When the police would send --like letters to outstanding warrants saying you want to vote? And then they all show up at a hotel and then we get arrested? Is that kind of how this works? You have these things once in a while and then the crazies come out?

TANTAROS: Like terrorist fly paper.

GUTFELD: Exactly.



TANTAROS: Although, who would volunteer to do this --

GUTFELD: Exactly --

TANTAROS: Cartoon event --

GUTFELD: That's true.

TANTAROS: Whose gonna sing (ph) --


BOLLING: By the way, just sit there and look --

TANTAROS: Full of -- full of snipers.

BOLLING: And look pretty. We got this cover --

GUTFELD: We got the guy from to catch a predator --


GUTFELD: That guy, the guy who is always in the kitchen.

BOLLING: Yeah, didn't he have a problem himself?

GUTFELD: I don't --


BOLLING: It was something --

GUILFOYLE: Well, let's try --

TANTAROS: You, you pointed out in monologue, I mean, it draws attention to, when people come out and they say, people who do this are provocative, Geller's provocative. You sit back and you go, wait a minute, these people just blew people -- I mean just gunned them down --


TANTAROS: And murdered people and then you think about all of the beheading videos, who really are the provocateur?


TANTAROS: I mean is really the one --


TANTAROS: To do the Muhammad cartoon or are the people that are beheading Americans --

WILLIAMS: Well, here's --

TANTAROS: And journalists? --

WILLIAMS: Well, here's the other point of it.

TANTAROS: It shouldn't be the outrage?

WILLIAMS: Well, here's the other point of it. Southern poverty law centers designate hell (ph) Geller's group as hate group in the United States, because they are so aggressive in condemning the Muslim community. Now, I happen to agree with you, as I said earlier. I don't think that you have any back step -- oh, they're great of shades like Garry Trudeau the guy who does Doonesbury. He was in this game too.


WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, this was kind of Charlie Hebdo --

GUTFELD: And there's --

WILLIAMS: Kind of provocative. I agree with you. I taught it was -- why would Garry Trudeau -- who is seems to me should be a champion --


WILLIAMS: Of Journalistic liberty. He is on the Sunday comic page with a political message every week. I enjoyed it, but I'm going to tell you, the idea that he would then turn and say, oh, you can't say what you want to say? How ridiculous.

GUILFOYLE: Chicken Little.

WILLIAMS: Check it out.

GUTFELD: Yeah. But also, it's like Marilyn Manson who spent decades making fun of Christians, burning the bible but, when it came to Islam he says, well, I'm going to stay away from that. It's the ultimate cowardice.

TANTAROS: And then they win.


TANTAROS: You point out.

WILLIAMS: And let me just make one last journalistic point about this. You know --

GUILFOYLE: You show like his picture after.



WILLIAMS: He -- he's always tricking me.


WILLIAMS: You're a tricking man. Anyway, I just want to make one journalistic point which is, that when you think about this Seattle Cartoonist Molly Norris, still in hiding --

GUTFELD: I know.

WILLIAMS: Still in hiding. An American journalist --


WILLIAMS: When you stop and think about Theo van Gogh being killed. Again, it seems to me that we have to be very clear that you can practice journalism in this country and even if she is a provocateur at your point, they shouldn't be there with guns trying to kill people. I don't see that people --

TANTAROS: But this is --

WILLIAMS: Are trying to kill the KKK, they are provocateur.

TANTAROS: Does this bother you then Juan, when you hear the White House conflate other religions with Islam?

WILLIAMS: What do you mean?

TANTAROS: That the president blame Christians at the prayer breakfast and bring the crusades and --

WILLIAMS: No. I think he's trying to say that look, we all have moments, but this is our moment right now, today, where radical Islam is a threat to world peace, in my opinion.

GUTFELD: Can I -- Eric, quickly. This guy was Elton Simpson -- they call him a former terror suspect.


BOLLING: Right. Well --


BOLLING: And, and for some reason -- no, but he was on the terror watch list.

GUILFOYLE: Australia (ph).


WILLIAMS: That's not true.

GUILFOYLE: That's not.


BOLLING: In 2009. They said he wanted to travel to Somalia to become a terrorist, to engage in violent jihad. I don't know how it becomes former being charged.


BOLLING: And by the way, his roommate also -- the other, the other shooter ended up being his roommate (inaudible) what said.


GUTFELD: There's a sitcom.

GUILFOYLE: Birds of a feather.


GUILFOYLE: Was somebody.

GUTFELD: One question before I go.


GUTFELD: -- the media persistently asks Republicans about questions of sexual orientation. Why don't they do this with Hillary about stuff like this, about -- Muslim intolerance and things like, like what, what is your stand on this now? Since we knew her stand on Libya, is she going to blame -- what is she going to blame?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Well, she's never going to answer a question like that.


GUILFOYLE: She's just gonna side step, because I was just get her and political trouble, so she's going to avoid it. That's what is gonna happen.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I think it goes back to what you said earlier, I know you've got to go, but don't you think -- you know that liberals and Democrats are going to say, oh, what about Geller?


WILLIAMS: And I just think, hey, don't get distracted here. You've got to support journalistic independence and truth telling in this country.

GUTFELD: Amen. All right, ahead, another NYPD officer has been assassinated. Will protesters come out to seek justice for him? Don't count on it -- next.


WILLIAMS: Welcome back to The Five. Let's go to Baltimore where Mike Tobin is live with an update.

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Juan, what we saw out here just a short time ago at 2:45, it would be very hard to duplicate a situation that looked more like a guy being shot. We saw the foot chase again about 2:45 with the officer pursing a young, black man. It's the opposite -- it was the observation of me, my security team and my cameraman that the officer had his weapon drawn. We heard a gunshot, we saw the person being chased on the ground. I arrived at the conclusion that the individual had been shot, as you naturally would in a situation like that. When we walked up on him, the person on the ground looked to be in bad shape. The police say now say that he was uninjured. So it's not clear if he hit his head, if he was exhausted or he was just play acting, but he looked to be in bad shape when they took him away on the ambulance. Obviously, the conclusion that he was shot is inaccurate now, but a situation where to duplicate itself a short, short period of time from now, or anytime in the future. I would be hard- pressed not to arrive at the same conclusion given all of the things that transpired in such a quick flurry of activity. Juan?

WILLIAMS: Thanks so much, Mike. Now, to a case that isn't getting nearly the same kind of attention as the Freddie Gray case. A New York City Police Department officer who was shot over the weekend, died today from his wounds. Officer Brian Moore was shot in the face on Saturday, after he and his partner asked the suspect, near their car, if he was carrying a gun. 35-year-old Demetrius Blackwell was arrested. He is now being held without bail and charges of attempted murder. Police Commissioner Bill Bratton made the announcement, earlier today.


BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: In his very brief career, less than five years, he had already proven himself to be an exceptional, young officer. In that career, he had made over 150 arrests, protecting and serving the citizens of the city. He had already received two exceptional police service medals. A (inaudible) police service medals, we don't give them out easily. It's a great loss to his family. It's a great loss to this department and a great loss to this profession and to this city.


WILLIAMS: Eric, I've got to tell you, these kinds of things just make me cry, but apart from that, I wonder -- as I -- what is going on? Because in New York City, you have -- remember those two police officers who were assassinated.


WILLIAMS: I'm not being harsh when I say assassinated, they were assassinated --

GUILFOYLE: But this was shooting of a New York City.


GUILFOYLE: Police officer, I'm very sure --

BOLLING: And months (ph).

GUILFOYLE: A great (ph) of time.

WILLIAMS: So, what is going on?

BOLLING: So, here's what -- I read your piece. It's fantastic. It points out that Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, the mayor is -- it was calling for decreased police presence, because she was concern that in increase police presence was gonna caused -- (inaudible) caused in emotion and they have caused something bad to happen. This could be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I mean, did the -- literally, the dumbest thing I ever heard. You, you listened to Rudy Giuliani, who brought crime down and he said, the first time of problems, start arresting people. Bring more police in. Bring backup in. This Miss Rawlings-Blake says, bring people up. My concern is it spills over. In -- the aftermath of Ferguson, Missouri, and then Eric garner in, in Staten Island, as you point out. Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were executed their cop car.


BOLLING: And now, is this officer Brian Moore, his -- his killing of a police -- he is being killed at the hands of another guy who was shot into a police car, is it in response to some more of the animosity that is going on? --

WILLIAMS: Well, listen to this --

BOLLING: But finger pointing that's going on by mayors --

WILLIAMS: That's terrible.

BOLLING: And maybe even President Obama.

WILLIAMS: Let me just ask you -- take a look at this, Eric. Here's some video, a people -- again, feeding this anti-police animosity in our society.


MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN COMMENTATOR: We can't continue to frame law enforcement in the police forces in America, as simply a bunch of good- natured people and their happen to be a few bad apples (inaudible), that's not the right analysis. Something about the job itself and the structure of law enforcement in America --


HILL: Occupying force and -- is they're occupying force in the hood. That's my issue.

ELIJAH CUMMINGS, MARYLAND CONGRESSMAN: This whole police community relations situation, Bob, is this -- is this civil rights cause for this generation. No doubt about it.

CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, NAACP CEO: When we have grown comfortable with the notion that African-American people and poor people and young people can be brutalized at the hands of a minority fraction of the police, we have to get away from that.


WILLIAMS: This is so infuriating to me because, you know, it feeds this idea that somehow poor people and most often, minorities, Hispanics and blacks, don't want or need police. Let me tell you something, I don't think it's news that community is that needs police and most of them that are ones that are in chaos, Kimberly, the ones who have the most violence occurring. You ask any police chief where the crime is.

GUILFOYLE: Well, right. Look at a crime map. Like, do you -- invest in educating yourself so then people don't make these ignorant comments? Look at what worked with a crime stats, with cop (ph) reporting, with community policing and working together. Police going into these communities that are most at risk, to be able to clean them up, it worked here with Rudy Giuliani, it's been successful model throughout the country. So the answer isn't to pull them back or demilitarize or unarmed the police or all of this other nonsense, because those are the first people like crying for their mother and the cops --


GUILFOYLE: When their communities go downhill.

WILLIAMS: But the cost is so great -- Larry Hogan the governor of Maryland said, you know, their businesses now, they are just wiped out. I think it was 200 businesses just lost. So what is that? That's jobs? That's jobs in the community? That's retail visits, so if you want to shop in your community -- you can't do it, Greg.

GUTFELD: Going back to the question. New York City cop is shot dead and we asked where is the march? Where is the outrage? Where are the riots? Is because people who support the police are not career agitators, where a career agitator can devote the entire focus of his life to undermining a very important part of society. But the people who support the police, they have families and they have jobs and they don't have time to do this. I was -- I see it parallel to the oil companies, progressive activist would take -- an oil spill, and damage an entire industry -- any industry that keeps the country going. Right now, activists realize that you don't need to take down a business. If you take down the police, you take down society so they will take an incident and they will did damn an entire profession dedicated to civil order, knowing that that is the secret to subverting and destroying society. This is about a group of subversive activists who is trying to destroy the one thing that keeps us together.


WILLIAMS: You know, it to me --


WILLIAMS: Andrea, I understand the concern about police that are brutal and wrong in their treatment of people but this to me smacks with something larger. I think it's ignorant and I think it's ideological, has nothing to do with the facts of Freddie Gray.

GUTFELD: Absolutely.

TANTAROS: I think you are absolutely right. Juan, what is really troubling is The Wall Street Journal had a poll out this weekend that showed how communities view police officers and that split right down the racial lines. It's really, really troubling. And, if they don't get a conviction in Baltimore, I think it's only going to get worse. What's troubling to me though, is that these police officers in Baltimore are guilty until they are proven innocent. I mean, cops seem to be -- you know, in the cross- hairs and no one really seems to care because, as Greg pointed out, who is standing up defending them? I mean, it's not black lives matter, sops matter, all lives --


TANTAROS: It matter and -- you know, I do think that the president came out in his remarks. I think when he said that there's a problem with the way that police interact with communities, I don't think it helped the situation. Certainly, there's bad cops here and there, not every cop is going to be perfect, but on the whole cops are really good people, and to Greg's question earlier, is anyone going ask Hillary Clinton? If anyone gonna ask her, would she repeal her husband's crime bill? Because that was the bill that brought thousands of cops to the streets of New York City, under a Republican Mayor Rudy Giuliani that helped cleaned up the street. Baltimore, unfortunately have been under liberal rule for over 50 years.


TANTAROS: What does that tell you?

BOLLING: You know, I agree and the sad part is --

GUILFOYLE: Liberal (inaudible).

BOLLING: As you point out the 200 businesses lost, the majority - minority businesses lost in --


BOLLING: If Ferguson --

WILLIAMS: That's a great point.


BOLLING: Study -- those businesses aren't coming back any time soon.


GUTFELD: -- I was -- when they announced the death of the police officer, I was at a bank, wiring some money. The death was met in that, in that bank with anger and shock. It reminded me that the world isn't what we're normally used to it. It's not the Marc Lamont Hill or the Twitter Goals of the career social warriors. It's actually community of good people.


GUTFELD: If that really care about the police, but they can't march because they got jobs.

WILLIAMS: You know what? Let me tell you something, I don't know what Andrew said about the poll (inaudible) in the black community too. People want --

GUILFOYLE: They do --

WILLIAMS: Kind of honest, good policing, need police. Don't ever get that confused. Well, next, the riots may have subsided in Baltimore but many business owners will feel the effects for some time to come, as we were discussing, more on that, when The Five returns.


GUILFOYLE: On Friday, Baltimore State's attorney Marilyn Mosby gave this vow to the city's rioters.


MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATES ATTORNEY: As the city's chief prosecutor, I have been sworn to uphold justice and to treat every individual within the jurisdiction of Baltimore city equally and fairly under the law. I have heard your call for no justice, no peace. However, your peace is sincerely needed, as I work to deliver justice on behalf of Freddie Gray. To the youth of this city, I will seek justice on your behalf. This is a moment, this is your moment.


GUILFOYLE: But what about justice for all the business owners who lost their livelihoods from the destruction? Here's Maryland's Governor Larry Hogan.


GOV. LARRY HOGAN (R), MARYLAND: Monday night, we lost 200 businesses. Most of them were minority-owned businesses. Maybe of them didn't have insurance. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been lost. People had their homes burned down, businesses burned down and looted. And then the folks that even didn't get a hit on Monday night, lost business for an entire week.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So let's talk about the business impact of this, because that seemed to be lost in her -- pretty political and partisan comments, Eric.

BOLLING: Hundreds of millions of dollars is what the -- the governor have said that in likely lost business in revenues, mostly minority-owned businesses that's concerned.

Also something else came out today, "The Examiner" found out that there was $120 billion sent to Baltimore from the Obama stimulus package: $467 million towards education, $26 million towards crime prevention. Where did the money go? Where did all that money go? If this is the concern with the community, that there's not enough money being spent there, well, it certainly isn't the case coming from the federal government, that's for sure.

GUTFELD: It went to rocks. Where else did they get the rocks to throw? A billion dollars' worth of rocks.

BOLLING: Not cheap.

GUILFOYLE: They're launching an investigation in that regard.

GUTFELD: They should have a Shopkeeper Appreciation Day. These are very, very brave -- many of them immigrants who come to areas that other businesses don't want to go to, and they open up these shops. They help a lot of little old ladies there.

Sometimes it's the only place where they can get food, and they have to deal with, at times, unsavory teenagers who screw with them while they're there. But they still show up every day. They still do their job. They take the risks that so many leftists who romanticize violence don't have to because they live there. And these people live there, and they get screwed every time. It's awful.

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're the victims of the romantic, nonsensical left.

TANTAROS: They are. I mean, why burn down a CVS? Where are you going to get your prescription, or grocery shop? I literally use a drugstore for everything.

GUTFELD: That's where I buy dinner.

TANTAROS: I know. I do. I grocery shop.

WILLIAMS: At the drug store?

GUTFELD: It's true. Duane Reade.

TANTAROS: At the Duane Reade.

GUTFELD: Duane Reade has everything.

GUILFOYLE: They have everything.

WILLIAMS: I go out to dinner (ph).

TANTAROS: The thing troubling about Mosby's comments, too, is, is she said, "I heard you. No justice, no peace." It's not her job to listen to the rioters in the community.

WILLIAMS: It is her job to listen to the community.

TANTAROS: Juan, it's her job to look at the evidence and decide if there's enough to bring charges.

WILLIAMS: Well, she's got to do that, but she is a politician, Andrea.

TANTAROS: Let me finish. And -- OK, you just said it. She's a politician.

WILLIAMS: Well, they're all politicians.

TANTAROS: It sounded like she was making a political speech to set herself up to run for office. Her job is not to be a politician, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: No. She's right.


WILLIAMS: Wait, I don't mind being wrong. But I'm just telling you, she ran saying, "We need to reform the relationship between police and the community."

GUILFOYLE: She's not supposed to be an activist. She is supposed to be an arbiter of truth and justice.

WILLIAMS: She wasn't.

TANTAROS: Yes, she was.

WILLIAMS: But she's a politician. But she...

TANTAROS: And these charges are political.

WILLIAMS: I don't think they're political at all.

TANTAROS: Well, let's see. Let's see if she can get a conviction.

WILLIAMS: If she's wrong -- if she's wrong, she will be shown to be wrong.

BOLLING: Can I defend Juan in one respect?


BOLLING: She ran, and she unseated an incumbent, and she ran on police accountability.

WILLIAMS: That's what she did. That's what I'm saying.

BOLLING: Right. So the people of Baltimore knew what they were getting when they got her. We may be outraged but, again, it's the electorate...


TANTAROS: Don't you find it...

GUILFOYLE: It's not her job, though.

TANTAROS: ... that these cops are guilty. And they're...

BOLLING: She told the people of Baltimore about it; this is what we're going to do.

GUILFOYLE: So you have a problem when Eric Holder does it but not when she does it?

WILLIAMS: He wasn't elected. He has a different standard.

GUILFOYLE: Just stand by for five seconds here, because this is crazy talk. She is supposed to evaluate the facts and the evidence dispassionately...

WILLIAMS: She did.

GUILFOYLE: ... and not be partisan or influenced by public sentiment, because that's what has happened in the past. And we have lynchings and other things, because people...

WILLIAMS: She said -- I'm talking about -- Eric is talking about how she ran for office. She said explicitly, "We have a problem with the way the police deal with young, black, poor people."

GUILFOYLE: She may have said that.

WILLIAMS: And then she said, "We had a thorough and comprehensive review of this tape and came to a decision as a prosecutor."

GUILFOYLE: She's part of the problem if she's doing that just to seek political favor...


GUILFOYLE: ... and curry with the public, instead of evaluating the facts and the law. That's it. It's not her job.

BOLLING: Listen, I agree with you. That shouldn't be her job.


BOLLING: But my point is, everyone saw this coming when they elected her. You should have seen it when you elected her.

GUILFOYLE: That doesn't make it OK!

BOLLING: People -- people of Baltimore, you should (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Elect -- elect these state's attorneys who are impartial, who don't have an ax to grind coming into office, and you won't have this problem. Am I wrong?

TANTAROS: Isn't it temporary, though? If she can't get a conviction, do you know the riots that will break out after this?

WILLIAMS: That's your -- I think you believe it. You're hoping.

TANTAROS: No. Wait a minute. That's not fair. No. Our own Leland Vitter asked protesters on the street, during "Outnumbered," specifically my question, which was, "Andrea's asking what will happen if they don't get a conviction?" The man said it will get even worse. You saw what happened in the case of Rodney King.

WILLIAMS: We don't know this. We don't know this. But I will say this...

GUILFOYLE: OK. So everyone will be fine with it?

WILLIAMS: I bet there are people who will have a day (ph). Look. They've had objections before. But what I'm saying to you is you look at other jurisdictions, other jurisdictions have prosecutors who, in fact, coincide with the police even when the police are wrong.

GUILFOYLE: No, the point is she's part of the problem because she -- no, no. Juan, she overpromised and she's going to under-deliver, and Baltimore is going to suffer. Wait and see. Wait and see.

WILLIAMS: What happened on Staten Island where you have a guy that chokes and the prosecutor doesn't even indict him?

BOLLING: Can I bring something in? Did you see that Salon piece that said riots work, the rioting works?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. That's been...

WILLIAMS: That's crazy talk.

GUILFOYLE: And you've got to see -- you know that the person who wrote that is probably a young, white liberal.

WILLIAMS: Yes. It's not his community. Right. Ridiculous.

GUILFOYLE: Leave it there. Brooklyn, yes.

Ahead, President Clinton defends his wife and the foundation in a new interview following some serious allegations about money from foreign governments in exchange for possible favors from Secretary Clinton. Next.

GUTFELD: Favors?


BOLLING: The Clintons are accused of serious wrongdoing with a possible trade of favors for money from foreign donors, but the former president is now deflecting blame and critics.


BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There has been a very deliberate attempt to take the foundation down, and there is almost no new facts that wasn't known when she ran for president the first time.


BOLLING: He said the Clinton Foundation hasn't done anything knowingly inappropriate and doesn't face a perception problem, even though it accepted millions from repressive Middle Eastern regimes and other questionable donors while Hillary was secretary of state.


CLINTON: I don't think that I did anything against the interest of the United States.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN: Do you understand, though, that the perception itself is a problem?


BANFIELD: You don't?

CLINTON: No. Look, I don't want to get into (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm not responsible for anybody else's perception. I asked Hillary about this, and she said, you know, "No one has never tried to influence me by helping you."


BOLLING: Well, Bill also tried his hardest to convince Americans, once again, he and Hillary are, you know, just like the folks, like you and me.


CLINTON: One of the most amusing things of all is everybody saying, "Well, how can Hillary possibly relate to the terms of middle-class America," because now we have money? I mean, it's laughable. I give 10 percent of my revenue off the top every year to the foundation. And Hillary in the year she was there gave 17. Over the last 15 years, I've taken almost no capital gains, and I've given 10 percent to pay my bills...

BANFIELD: So she's now running for president. Will you continue to give speech?

CLINTON: Yes. I've got to pay my bills.


BOLLING: All right, K.G. Just got to pay the old bills. Only you and I don't put down 500 -- or what is it, $100 million over the last few years on 45-minute speeches.

GUILFOYLE: Sad, isn't it?


GUILFOYLE: Yes. Listen, I have no problem with them working and making money. If that's the price that they command in the free market, so be it. Just let me and the rest of us hardworking folks in America keep our cash. That's the thing. And so if they could be a little bit more ethical, I mean, God knows, they're good at being bad.

BOLLING: Let me pick up on that right there, Juan. In 2013 or so, the pie is 100 percent. Ninety percent of what the Clintons -- the foundation spent money on went to administrative: paying office space, paying salaries. Only 10 cents on the dollar went to charitable uses, causes.

WILLIAMS: I just find that incredible. That strikes me as I don't understand -- how is that legal?

GUILFOYLE: You end up on a bad charity list.

BOLLING: And they are.

GUILFOYLE: Like bad Haiti relief charity lists. Yes.

WILLIAMS: I want to say something to you about the politics of this, because there's a new poll, A.P. poll, right? And they asked Democrats -- remember, not the Clinton-hating Republicans. They asked Democrats about this, and what did the Democrats say?

It was something like 40 percent of Democrats said that the Clintons' behavior is barely honest or it's clearly not honest. Democrats and 60 percent of independents agreed.

Now, the contrary thought is, a lot of people seem to like Hillary. I mean, it's unbelievable: 62 percent say she's a strong leader, according to this A.P. poll. But the idea that her behavior is anything but unethical - - maybe not illegal but unethical -- I don't think there's a doubt.

BOLLING: Half of the donors, the big donors, 500 million and up come from foreign entities. Is that a good idea?

TANTAROS: It's a huge problem. But Bill doesn't care. No one cares.

GUILFOYLE: They don't care.

TANTAROS: He's on the cover of "Town & Country" this month looking like a hero, their philanthropist issue. So even though, as Juan points out, there's a huge issue with the Clintons, everybody knows they're shade balls. And Bill knows that everyone knows they're shade balls and sketchy, and no one cares. No one cares. That's why he says it, because he knows they're not going to be held accountable. I mean, I hate to quote him, but really, it doesn't make a difference.

BOLLING: Greg, take this wherever you want, but the Clintons, either Hillary or the Clintons, just bought a mansion on Embassy Row in D.C. They've got that big spread in South Hampton. But they're just trying to pay their bills.

GUTFELD: Yes. Just this poor boy thing. But see, money doesn't matter when you have power. You don't need any money in your wallet if you used to be president of the United States. You never pick up the bill. Bills pick up you.

But the question a lot of people don't ask is, why are all of these rich foreign people interested in an American foundation? I guess there are no decent foundations in Russia or Canada. And they're just giving all this money to this one foundation. It has nothing to do with influence. What is so special about this one? And not the ones in their own country? It's weird.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's obvious. That's the thing. You know, you just can't get away from it, that there's something -- I don't know if I want to go where you went with language about shady but yes.


WILLIAMS: Shady balls? I don't know about that.

TANTAROS: No, shade balls.


TANTAROS: ... Juan.

WILLIAMS: But I was going to say to you, I think what that you've got with the Clintons is a situation that everybody kind of, you know, is uncomfortable. The question is, where do we go from here? Because if I said to you guys, where is the smoking gun, you say...

TANTAROS: The new polling on Hillary Clinton...

WILLIAMS: You don't have an answer to the smoking gun.

TANTAROS: The new polling on Hillary Clinton's trust is pretty -- is incredible (ph).

WILLIAMS: I agree, but you don't have an answer to the smoking gun.

BOLLING: K.G., if 90 percent of the fund, of the $2 billion in the foundation, is spent on themselves, is it really a foundation? Should we even call it a charitable foundation?

GUILFOYLE: No. Then we're going to reward them with running the country? That poorly, 10 cents on the dollar? I don't think so. I mean, that's the problem. Why is this just like an automatic gift handed over like, you know, free gift with purchase.

TANTAROS: What are they promising for campaign donations?

BOLLING: Who knows? Who knows? Is the wall up? Is the Chinese wall up or does the money jump over the wall?

Two more GOP contenders entered the presidential race today. Can Ben Carson win the White House? Can Carly Fiorina? We're going to debate their strengths and challenges ahead, next on "The Five."


TANTAROS: Well, another woman entered the presidential race today. Carly Fiorina has positioned herself as the anti-Hillary Clinton and kept that theme going in her announcement video, released earlier.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm getting ready to do something, too. I'm running for president.

CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our founders never intended us to have a professional political glass. They believed that citizens and leaders needed to step forward. We know the only way to reimagine our government is to reimagine who is leading it. I'm Carly Fiorina, and I'm running for president.


TANTAROS: And then there was Ben Carson, the first African-American to enter the 2016 contest. He made it official in his hometown of Detroit.


BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not politically correct, and I'm probably never -- I'm probably never going to be politically correct, because I'm not a politician.

I'm not even asking everybody to vote for me. I'm just asking people to listen to what I'm saying and listen to what politicians are saying and make an intelligent decision.


TANTAROS: Well, it's nice to see some diversity on the GOP stage. Eric, what did you think about Carson's announcement?

BOLLING: I loved it. It was really refreshing. It was apolitical. He didn't -- when he said, "I'm not even asking everyone to vote for me; I want you to hear the idea." One of his ideas I absolutely adore -- we talked about that for a long time -- but bringing the $2 trillion in offshore money back on the tax side. He's got some great ideas. He has some other things that are going to be divisive, and it's going to make him a difficult choice to vote for but wow, at least you see some new ideas.

TANTAROS: Kimberly, one of the things that he came out against was selfies a couple weeks ago, which I thought was a little strange and maybe a stumble. But you say that you think that he's cute and he has a cute little nose. Do you think that can help him get elected?

GUILFOYLE: You know what? Because he is very likable. You may not agree with everything he says, but when he speaks to you, he's talking to you like it's your neighbor or your doctor in the office and you're having a conversation with him. I thought he was very nice today, and his wife -- the wife was very sweet, too. So yes, he has the world's most perfect nose. I identify (ph) with that.

TANTAROS: Greg, does it remind you of having a conversation with your doctor?

GUTFELD: It always ends in a very, very, very stern lecture about where to put things.

Real people with real, meaningful jobs are always at a disadvantage. A surgeon, not a community organizer, do not have all those decades of preparing for political life.

Carson spent the last three or four decades saving baby's lives, instead of preparing the perfect answer when you're asked about a gay marriage. See, they walk in and they're hit by these things, because they really haven't been thinking about it.

The advantage of being a lawyer, no offense, and a community organizer is you have a lot of time in the world to hone your political skills that doctors and people who are CEOs don't.

TANTAROS: Juan, what do you think about Ben Carson? I think that he is pretty deeply threatening to the left because he has such an incredible story. I mean, he never played the victim card. He worked really hard. It's very compelling, and I think they don't like that about him.

WILLIAMS: There's no question, he has a compelling story. I mean, "Healing Hands," I don't know if you ever saw his book. It's a book about his upbringing in Detroit.

And by the way, you know, my heart goes out to you, Ben, about your mom.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Yes.

WILLIAMS: She's not well right now. So it becomes kind of an odd day, I imagine, emotionally for him.

But let me just say that his story is just one of the most inspiring, because he stands up for anybody who believes in hard work, no matter your circumstance. He was born into some tough circumstances. You can make it in America, distinguish yourself. And he has, as Eric said, saved lives. There's no joke about this.

As a politician, I don't think he's been doing all that great. He's in single digits. Fiorina is in basically no digits when it comes to support. I don't know if they'll even make it onto the stage for the first debate.

GUTFELD: ... are usually known for single digits.

TANTAROS: Which digit in particular?

Eric, any thoughts on Fiorina?

BOLLING: No. I think we need to hear a lot more. Where did Meg Whitman go? Wouldn't she be a fantastic choice? I'd love to see her get in.

TANTAROS: All right. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing." How about you, K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: Thank you. Well, yesterday, Ronan made his first Holy Communion at St. Gregory's. It was a lovely day. We have some pictures of it.

TANTAROS: Oh, look.

GUILFOYLE: That's the two of us at the community gardens, Philip Gardens (ph) there. That's a picture of Ronan and his dad, Eric, and we've got a picture with Father Kribbins (ph). It's wonderful. From St. Anthony.

TANTAROS: He's so cute.

GUILFOYLE: He did the mass, and the music director, Jim, was great and Anita and Florence (ph). And it was a wonderful group, an incredible school and great church; and I hope that they keep that church exactly where it is.

TANTAROS: By the way, he looks just like you and is one of the sweetest little boys.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, thank you. He was a very good boy, and he was in charge of the money basket.

GUTFELD: There you go.


GUTFELD: Greg's Headline Corner.


GUTFELD: All right. Going to roll some tape. I want you to look at it, and I want you to tweet me a decent headline for this. This was in Seattle. This is some idiot got stuck in a basket. A headline might be, "A true basket case" or "Goal tending." Or I personally like, "A net loss." But if you have a good headline, tweet it to me, and you will win absolutely nothing, because I'm cheap. I'm a jerk. I'm a cheap jerk.

All right. Andrea.

TANTAROS: OK. So everyone at the table, I think, watched the fight on Saturday night. Did you notice Jimmy Kimmel as part of Pacquiao's entourage? Which was a little crazy. I mean, there -- he's in the back there with the gold chains on. And a couple of people had some cocktails. They didn't notice him. How could you miss him, though? I just thought that was very funny. At first I thought, what's really going on here? And then Jamie Foxx was singing. But I thought it was very cute and who doesn't love Kimmel?

But I can't believe 180 million, Eric, you said Mayweather made and 130...

BOLLING: Marky Mark lost 250 grand to P. Diddy on that fight, too.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think Justin Bieber was with Mayweather, and so he was trying to match him. But he looked like Run DMC or something from the '90s.

GUTFELD: I hate all of the people you just mentioned.

TANTAROS: Even Mark Wahlberg?

GUTFELD: No, I like Mark Wahlberg.


BOLLING: Very quickly, this hashtag right here, #WakeUpAmerica, we launched it about eight weeks ago. This past week, we hit an all-time record number of tweets. Also, over the last 30 days, almost 500,000 tweets mentioning "wake up America." People are using it as a go-to hashtag for conservative debate. Just add that to any of your tweets, whether it's associated with the show or not. It's growing. You'll be part of it.

GUTFELD: So America Fererra is in a coma?

BOLLING: She's just sleeping.


WILLIAMS: Well, today, as you know, if you look at the calendar, is May the 4th. So may the fourth be with you, because it's National Star Wars Day. That's right. And people are going crazy on social media and at VanityFair.com, they revealed some details about Episode 7 upcoming, which is called "The Force Awakens." They've got two new stars. Adam -- Adam Driver is the bad guy, Kylo Ren, and Lupita Nyongo'o is playing a good girl, Maz. She's going to be, though, a computer-generated...


GUTFELD: It's no good since Leonard Nimoy left.

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