Texas business owners split over lifting of state COVID mandates

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Texas business owners split over lifting of state COVID mandates

Danette Wicker and Bob Sambol join 'The Story' with their thoughts

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," March 4, 2021. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Thank you, John and Sandra. Great to see you today. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Martha McCallum live here in New York. Here's the story that is happening right now. Here we go. Congress is now taking up the latest piece of the second largest government spending stimulus package in history. This part of it is $1.9 trillion on top of the $4 trillion. We have never been in this territory before folks of the previous relief packages.

This as new research emerges that shows, you know what states actually did better during the pandemic than originally thought. And Americans saved $1.5 trillion as they hunkered down, didn't go to restaurants and go to bars, all of that and saved a ton of money. That is pent up right now once this economy gets out moving. Still, despite those realities, and a reopening of the economy in a number of places and a declining virus. The President believes politically that passing this bill is crucial, and this is important to his larger agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a show of strength, and a first step forward to restoring their faith in the capacity of government to have their backs. Now, if we deliver on this, it also builds momentum, the bill's real, enthusiasm as well. And I will make everything else we want to deliver. This will make everything more possible to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, you hear that, that's very important. He added it all starts here. It starts by bringing this meaning, the 1.9 trillion home. So, here is some of what else is probably in the pipeline starting with a call for healthcare for a now vastly increasing migrant population. Look back at some of these wish list signups.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raise your hand if covered if your government plan would provide coverage for undocumented immigrants.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Particularly Puerto Rico votes for it. D.C. already has voted for it and wanted, I'd love to make them states.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): In 1876, there were nine justices on the court. Our population has grown enormously since then. Should we expand the court? Well, let's take a look and see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, those are some of the ideas in the larger agenda. Senate Minority Whip John Thune taking a quick break from what's happening on the Senate floor. He's going to join us in just a moment. First, we touch base with White House Correspondent Kristin Fisher with the very latest on the north lawn. Hi, Kristin.

KRISTIN FISHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha. Well, the White House is watching very closely to see how its COVID relief package fares in the Senate. And Republicans are threatening to draw out this vote-o-rama as long as possible.

The White House is still hoping to get that on the President's desk on or before March 14th, which is just 10 days away. So, a very tight timeline. And once that happens, then President Biden is really going to begin focusing on some of his other big ticket items, things like infrastructure and immigration.

In fact, President Biden just finished meeting with a bipartisan group of lawmakers about his infrastructure plan, but a lot of the specifics are on hold until after the COVID relief package gets through, and so is the President's first address to a joint session of Congress. The White House still won't say when that will be. Here's the White House Press Secretary on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We made a decision internally that we weren't going to have the president proposed his forward-looking agenda beyond that, meant parts of his build back better agenda, still being determined. Policies discussion still going on internally until after that bill is signed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: We're also still waiting for President Biden to hold his first formal news conference. Now, he did take about 20 minutes worth of questions on January 25th, including two questions from my colleague, Peter Doocy. But all three of his most recent predecessors had held formal press conferences, formal news conferences by this point in their presidency.

Now, the President does answer some shouted questions from reporters, he answered a few shouted questions just a few moments ago, he took two of mine on Tuesday. But Martha as you know, taking questions that are shouted at him as reporters are moving in and out of a room very different from a formal news conference. And we still don't know when that first one is going to be. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Yes, Martha, it gives you the opportunity to just sort of keep walking to, if that's what you want to do in that environment. Kristin, thank you very much. Kristin Fisher at the White House. Joining me now Senate Minority Whip, John Thune of South Dakota. Senator, thank you so much for being here. Good to have you here today.

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R-SD): Thanks, Martha.

MACCALLUM: You know, just going back to what you heard the President say there he said it's so important to pass this because this is the beginning of the rest of our agenda. So, sort of not focus so much on the dollar figures and what's in it, but just that politically it's really important. He says, we want to demonstrate that to people that the government has your back. What do you think about that?

THUNE: I think your reporting earlier on covered it. I mean, this is part of a much broader far-left agenda. And I've said this before, but Bernie Sanders wing of the Democrat Party is running the show up here on Capitol Hill. And this is the first step, and obviously a $1.9 trillion bill, which is second to the Cares Act that we passed a year ago, the largest spending bill ever in the history of the country. At a time when we've got, you know, enormous amounts of debt, all this is borrowed money.

And we ought to be thinking about how do we target this? How do we do it in a fiscally responsible way? How do we help people who really need help to the pandemic? But, but look at what we can do to get the economy growing and expanding again and creating jobs, Martha, that's ultimately what we want to see happen. And the way to do that, obviously, is to keep taxes low, regulations low have a good energy policy; it isn't to have a lot more government spending on things that, frankly, are totally unrelated to the pandemic.

MACCALLUM: So, you know, I guess one of the questions is, does that matter to the majority of Americans anymore, those kinds of fiscal responsibility points that you just made, and I was reading, you know, list of economists, including Mark Zandi and others, who said, you know, if we could write this bill again, this 1.9 trillion, given what we know now about how things are improving across the country? Yes, we'd probably scraped, you know, a few 100 billion off of this bill, but you know, it is what it is, and it's about to get voted on. I mean, it's pretty astonishing.

THUNE: It is, and if you look at there's a lot of economic analysis being done out there right now, that suggests that continuing to flood the economy with more and more money, increasing the money supply, we're starting to see inflation tick up that interest rates will follow that has dramatic implications for the federal government and its fiscal picture.

But it also has a big impact on people across the country when things that they have to buy go up in price when interest rates on their mortgages and their car loans. All those things go up, that squeezes family budgets as well. And I think that what we're talking about here, obviously, is something that has a lot of payoffs to Democrats, special interests, the state and local money, 350 billion, you mentioned it.

I mean, if you look year over year, cumulatively, all the states in the country, one-tenth of one percent, off of the previous year's revenue, and yet we're going to send California $27 billion in this bill, and they've got a surplus in California this year. So, the question is, the taxpayers in places like South Dakota, and North Carolina, and Georgia and Arizona have to spend their hard-earned tax dollars to bail out states like California, New York and places, which really, frankly, as all the evidence we have, are doing pretty well.

MACCALLUM: Yes. You know, the effort. Just, you know, from your side, in terms of the Senate how this proceeds. Ron Johnson wants to read the entire bill, I think its 600 or 700 pages long. It's going to take hours and hours to discuss the amendments and all of that.

Do you, are you a believer that that's a good thing to do for people, you know, how does that help you in terms of drawing attention to the points that you're making? And do you think that you'll, there'll be the support for a roll call vote so that every member has to stand up and be counted on this bill?

THUNE: There will be a roll call vote at the end and every Republican should vote against it. And the reason why is they completely cut us out of the process. This should be the most bipartisan thing we do. It's pandemic relief. When we had the majority last year we did five coronavirus relief bills, all bipartisan, all at the 60 vote threshold normally required in the Senate under regular order.

The Democrats chose to bypass that; they didn't want a single Republican vote on this. They didn't talk to the committees have had no input into this. This was rushed to the floor and what they get now in terms of delays and, and an opportunity for us finally, to talk about the bill to offer amendments that we've been cut out of the process up until now.

So, you know, it's up to Republicans to shine a light on what they're doing here, not only in terms of the process, but all the unnecessary un-COVID related spending that's in this bill. 95 percent of the money for education doesn't get spent this year. How can you call that an emergency? It gets spent in 27 and 28? Those, that's not, that's not that's not an emergency, Martha, that's not urgent. That's not what this should be about.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, education spending, they've already got 67 billion allocated, and they've only spent 4.4 billion of it. It's pretty tough to wrap your head around why you need another 130 billion when you've got 67 billion that's already been allocated, but not even spent yet. So, Senator, we'll be watching this process closely. And we thank you very much for joining us this afternoon. Good to see you.

THUNE: Thanks, Martha. Good to be with you. Bye now.

MACCALLUM: So, also breaking, just short time ago, the White House pressed on this comment from the President on the reopening and dropping of mask mandates in Texas and Mississippi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The last, the last thing we need is Neanderthal thinking that in the meantime, everything's fine, take off your mask. Forget it. It still matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Texas business owners on both sides of that debate join us next. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: A little bit of cleanup today on the Neanderthal comment as the President yesterday sort of clapped back at governors for opening up their states and for dropping their mask mandates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PSAKI: The behavior of a Neanderthal, just to be very clear. The behavior of, look, I think the President what, what we what everybody saw yesterday was a reflection of his frustration and exasperation, which I think many American people have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, when asked about being compared to the behavior of a Neanderthal, here's what Texas Governor Abbott said about that this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): Is not the type of thing that a president should be saying. The Biden administration was spreading COVID in South Texas yesterday because of their lack of constraint of testing and quarantining people who'd come across the border illegally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, in Texas, there has been a 27 percent increase in positive cases in the past week. The CDC agrees now is not the time to ease up cautioning about the variance and about further spread. But as you can see, there's a lot of division on this topic. So Correspondent Jonathan Serrie sorts it out for us. Hi, Jonathan.

JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Martha. The U.S. has administered more than 80 million doses, about 16 percent of the population has received at least their first dose of vaccine, and states are expanding eligibility as the supply increases. For example, Indiana and Michigan will start vaccinating people 50 and older. Dr. Anthony Fauci says as larger numbers of Americans get vaccinated, the nation can expect a gradual return to normal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: I think by the time we get to the fall with the implementation of the vaccine program, you're going to see something that's noticeably in the direction of going back to normality and very likely get there by the end of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERRIE: In the meantime, federal health officials say wearing masks and social distancing will be essential to slowing the spread of new highly contagious variants. But next week, Texas will join 15 other states that do not have mask mandates. Yesterday, Mississippi and its requirements.

Major grocery chains, including Kroger and target say they will continue requiring employees and customers to wear face coverings. Governors and states lifting mass requirements say they still want people to follow safety protocols, but they want to take government out of the business of enforcing them.

And today, Martha, Alabama governor Kay Ivey announced that she is extending her mask mandate through April 9th, just to give businesses in her state time to develop their own safety protocols. But after that, she is taking her state out of the business of enforcing mask wearing, Martha.

MACCALLUM: A lot of changes afoot. Jonathan, thank you very much. Joining me now are from Texas, are two small business owners with mixed reaction to the lifting of these restrictions. Bob Sambhal is the Founder of Bob's Steak and Chop House in Dallas, and Danette Wicker Owner of Danette's Urban Oasis in Fort Worth, Texas. Great to have both of you with us today. Thank you for being with us. Obviously, this is pretty big news when it broke yesterday, Bob. What was your reaction to the governor's changes?

BOB SAMBHAL, FOUNDER, BOB's STEAK AND CHOP HOUSE: Well, I was surprised, I was I was expecting to go into 100 percent capacity. I was not expecting him to lift the mask mandate. I feel it's a little premature. We've gotten used to it, bringing them, my customers have gotten used to wearing them. I would have waited a little bit longer. I think that what he wanted to do was to put it again in the in the hands of the business owners and the people rather than government restrictions.

I think it was very calculated what he did. I'm a big fan of Governor Abbott, I think he's a good governor. But it was Texas Independence Day, weather's getting nicer more and more people are outdoor dining, more and more people are doing outdoor activities. I think it has a good chance that there won't be any major disruption to the decline in numbers.

Because it is so -- what we're going to do is we're going to insist all our employees management myself are going to will still wear masks. And instead of the sign on the door that says you must walk in with a mask or face covering. We're going to say, we suggest you walk in with a mask or face covering.

MACCALLUM: Yes, very interesting. Danette, what was your reaction? And what's the impact on your business?

DANETTE WICKER, OWNER, DANETTE'S URBAN OASIS: I felt that we were caught unawares. Obviously, as a small business owner, we all want to be 100 percent and back to whatever life was like before COVID.

But living with a virus that is that easily spread, and then in one day, we were told that it was 100 percent. So, we were open. And then the mask mandate was being pulled back. Well, in Fort Worth the mask mandate, went out the window last night. So, as soon as he did the press conference, people literally stopped wearing their face masks.

MACCALLUM: So, even though, I don't think it kicks in until sometime next week, but you're saying that the people were happy and they were excited to just get rid of the mask, right, Danette?

WICKER: Exactly. And ours was our judge, our county judge, decided that it would be instantly yesterday.

MACCALLUM: I see.

WICKER: And not until the 10th which is what the Governor's order was.

MACCALLUM: So, Danette, what's the impact on your day to day?

WICKER: Well, I enforce face mask. I am a massage therapist and a nail tech and I am forward facing touching people every day. So, I believe face mask are necessary. I am fully vaccinated. I have both my COVID-19 vaccinations under my belt which I'm very happy about. Yes, but that is not a guarantee against variants, against asymptomatic people. So, we are not out of the woods yet and I am very concerned for my livelihood.

MACCALLUM: Do you think you're going to have people who come in who say, you know, the Governor says, I don't need a mask? So I'm coming in without it?

WICKER: I won't, because they won't come into my personal business. My rule for my business is my rule for my business.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I mean, that's the bottom line. You know, you're the business owner. And I think that's in part, Bob, real quick, what the Governor wanted to change, you know, to make clear that that wasn't going to come from the state, but that is any business owner, any individual, you have the option to run your business the way you want to.

SAMBHAL: Yes, and, and that's what he accomplished. And to be honest with you, I think, I think what we're trying to do, I'm a little different situation than she is. People, you know, they, they -- our business has been getting much better since the freeze was over a couple of weeks ago.

And so, it is on the increase, it has been increasing. People are, more and more people are getting vaccinated more and more people are feeling comfortable about going out. And so, I think this kind of pushes the button a little more, maybe a little more than I thought, but it still does.

MACCALLUM: All right, Bob and Danette, thank you. Good luck with your businesses, and thanks for talking to us today. Good to see you.

WICKER: Thank you so much!

MACCALLUM: You bet. All right, so we're going to go live in New Jersey, we're fed up parents concerned about the welfare of their children are taking their battle about going back to school to court, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Back to the live action on the Senate floor where moments ago Vice President Kamala Harris broke the 50/50 tie to formally advanced debate on the President's $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill. So, that process is underway. We're going to keep a close eye on that as it moves through the Senate, which could take a while from what we're hearing.

And the first lady paying a visit to a Connecticut school this week as the clock ticks on the President's deadline to reopen within the first 100 days. Schools across this country, a plan being met with some resistance from some of the unions. Here's the Los Angeles Union president arguing "wealthy white parents are to blame."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CECILY MYART-CRUZ, PRESIDENT, UTLA: If you condition funding on the reopening of schools, that money will only go to white and wealthier schools. This is a recipe for propagating structural racism. We have to call out the privilege behind the largely white wealthy parents driving the push for a rushed return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: OK, we're going to talk about that with the Wall Street Journal in just a moment. But first, Fox Business Network's Lydia Hu is in New Jersey, where parents are suing the district in court. Hi, Lydia.

LYDIA HU, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Martha. Parents in Montclair, New Jersey say they have no other option than to turn to the courts now as teachers continue to refuse to return to the classroom. So, group of parents have gotten together and they have filed a federal class action lawsuit against the school board. They're not asking for any money, but they're asking the court to order that school go back to in person instruction. Parents say their kids are being deprived of their constitutional right to an education.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BAFFICO, MONTCLAIR PARENT AND LEAD PLAINTIFF: Devastating is probably an understatement for our children and the children of the community. Whether it's academic, emotional, physical, you know, there are a lot of byproducts of being remote and not having interaction with teachers and other students that have been quite detrimental to the overall development welfare of kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HU: Now, meanwhile, New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy announced that teachers can begin getting the vaccine March 15th. But still, the Teachers Union for the Montclair school district would not commit to any in person learning yet, even after the announcement about the vaccinations. They tell us, "While the vaccine will certainly assuage our members' anxiety and concerns for personal and loved one's safety," and they go on, "it does not change our opinion."

Now, we reached out to the school board and the superintendent for comment, and they declined, saying that they couldn't comment on active litigation. But it should be noted that the school board has also filed its own lawsuit against the teachers union in an effort to resume in person learning, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Amazing. Everybody's suing everybody and the kids are still back at home. Lydia, thank you very much. Lydia Hu from the Business Network. So, a new editorial in the Wall Street Journal lays out how Teachers Unions, they say, are advancing their own interests by playing the race card to avoid returning to the classroom.

Joining me now for wise words, Wall Street Journal Columnist and Editorial Board Member, Bill McGurn, and Columnist Jason Riley, also a Senior Fellow with the Manhattan Institute. Jason and Bill, great to have you both with me today. Thank you for being here.

Jason, I'd like to start with you. You heard in the introduction, the head of the L.A. Teachers Union, who basically said that if you link funding to in person training, to in person schooling, you are propagating structural racism, and she blamed white parents for that. What do you think about that argument?

JASON RILEY, SENIOR FELLOW, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE: Well, I think she's at least being honest in her, in her argument about what her priorities are. And it's clearly continuing to get paid without fully doing her job. And the teachers continuing to get paid without doing their job. And I think more and more people are coming to see what's really going on here, which is that the unions are putting their own interest ahead of the parents and ahead of the children who they claim to be, to care about.

And, and I think their position is just continuously untenable and more and more untenable, as this stretches out. And you see the backlash not only in places like New Jersey, but another wealthy suburbs, you know, Brookline, Massachusetts, outside of Boston, we've seen this, the Philadelphia suburbs, we've seen this. And these are not Republicans necessarily; they are not Trump supporters, Martha, these are places that voted, you know, 80 90 percent for Joe Biden.

MACCALLUM: Yes.

RILEY: But they're also parents that, you know, Carolina about education in some cases rearrange their entire life to make sure that their kids can go to the right schools. They bought homes in certain neighborhoods.

They pay exorbitant property taxes, all for the purposes of education. They look around, they see restaurants open. They see gyms open. They see private schools open, colleges. They see public transit workers doing their job and they say to the teachers, why can't our kids go back to school?

MACCALLUM: Yes. And they see other schools that are wide open, and they see very low transmission rates.

You know, Bill, I'm very interested in the legal side of this, and I actually want to put up this screen about teen mental health claims. Overdoses up 119%, anxiety up 94%, depression up 84%, these are from FAIR Health. They study the insurance claims that are put forward, in the diagnosis and the symptoms to mark those numbers.

But at what point, you know, when you pay your taxes, as Jason says, right? You pay your taxes, you pay the school system, at what point do to the families win? Do they say, you know what, you're taking away our civil right to a public education. We've paid for this education with our tax dollars. We expect to receive it. So, if you're not going to come and do it, then let's get someone else to do it. Let's go outside the union and hire some teachers who are not in the union to carry out the duty that you have committed to do with these tax dollars.

BILL MCGURN, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I think Jason partly answered that. The problem with public schools, especially in our big cities, is that the schools are not run by the mayors and city councils, and the administrators, it run by the teachers unions, and then run for the benefit of teachers.

You know, the numbers you rattle off, remind me there was a report issued last year by the Brightbeam Foundation. And it was called the "Secret Shame: How America's Most Progressive Cities Betray Their Commitment to Educational Opportunity for All."

All these kids are suffering. You know, we're never going to even know how many kind of futures were sacrificed because of this, because that, you know, some people couldn't learn remotely and so forth. There's going to be a tremendous human cost. And, you know, the teachers union person who talked about structural racism. I mean, if you believe in structural racism, and you look at the record of our big city public school systems, in teaching poor black and Latino kids. It's a national disgrace and it should be changed.

And it seems that the teachers unions, their number one priority is to keep any of these kids who need some help from going to a Catholic school or charter school, where they get a decent education.

MACCALLUM: Yes. No, they don't want that. And that has provided an opportunity. I saw the saddest story the other day, community worker was driving through the streets of Detroit searching for kids that have completely dropped off the radar.

They don't show up for their Zoom classes. And this man was so, you know, his heart was so in the right place. He's like if I see a bicycle outside, I think maybe they're still there, trying to track down these children who have completely, they call the disappearing children, who had disappeared from the entire school system since it started.

And it is absolutely heartbreaking and I commend him for, you know, doing what he can to try to find these children. But, boy, you're right. We're going to we're going to reap the outcomes of this for quite some time. Jason, thank you, Bill. Thank you. Great to see you both today.

RILEY: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So breaking right now, the urgent request from US Capitol Police to keep lawmakers safe. And still ahead from Dr. Seuss to Dr. Ben Carson. He now has some original poetry to share with you today and I urge you to stick around to hear it. It's pretty good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Capitol Police now planning to ask the National Guard to stay at the Capitol for another two months, but with fewer troops. And Fox News has an exclusive look at a draft of recommendations from retired Lieutenant General Russel Honore, who is leading that security review and his role in that has been controversial.

They include hiring more than 800 Capitol Police officers, adding more fencing and infrastructure, and setting up a quick reaction force to be on duty around the clock. That force alone could cost up to $130 million a year. Capitol Police warned of a possible plot to breach the Capitol today, March 4th, until 1933, March 4th, was our country's inaugural day.

And the east is rising and the west is declining, that from Chinese leader Xi Jinping. Emboldened, as he puts the pandemic behind him, and looks to prove to the world that keeping him in power indefinitely will lead to the end of poverty and the world dominance of China. Here's Secretary of State Antony Blinken laying out the path forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONY BLINKEN, US SECRETARY OF STATE: Our relationship with China will be competitive when it should be, collaborative when it can be, and adversarial when it must be. The common denominator is the need to engage China from a position of strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: OK. Gordon Chang joins me now, Author of "The Great US-China Tech War." Gordon, always good to see thanks for being here today. What do you think of the way that our new Secretary of State Blinken characterized his approach to China?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "THE GREAT US-CHINA TECH WAR": Well, that approach has really dominated thinking and administration's liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats since the end of the Cold War. But the problem is, you can't really have a collaborative relationship with a country that has declared a "people's war" on us, and that's China. They did that in May of 2019. So while it sounds nice, it just didn't work in practice.

MACCALLUM: You know, we've watched sort of the movement of the way President Biden talks about a China. Here's a couple of quotes that I think are very familiar to people, but I just want to get your big picture thought given that we now have this statement from the Secretary of State

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: China is going to eat our lunch. Come on, man. No, they're not going to -- if we don't move they're going to get our lunch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: A bit of a progression there. What do you think about the President's attitude about China?

CHANG: Well, he has the attitude which is decades old. That United States can get along with China, that it's actually in our interest to help the Communist Party strengthen itself. And we saw his comments at the CNN Town Hall in the answers to that question from Anderson Cooper about crimes against humanity, human rights. Biden has a view that is just not consistent with what China's doing today, they're committing atrocities. And that hasn't really penetrated the president.

MACCALLUM: You know, about that, with regard to Hong Kong, there's a --- this was a very big statement from President Xi, speaking to the leadership in China to an annual event, I believe. How did -- what was your read on what he was saying in terms of how quickly he wants to accelerate this program in China and also to keep Hong Kong in check?

CHANG: Well, it sounds like he believes that China is strong, but actually, I think he's seeing a closing window of opportunity to achieve historic objectives. Because he realizes that you've got -- he's got a problem with his economy, but he's more important got a problem with demography.

China right now is four times, more than four times more populous than the United States. By the end of this century, it's probably going to be less populous than the US. That's the most dramatic collapse in demography in history, absent war or disease. And if Beijing doesn't achieve its objectives in the next, let's say, five years, it has no hope of catching up and surpassing us.

MACCALLUM: The Secretary of Defense making some comments at the Air Force. He said, China is our number one pacing challenge, what does that mean to you?

CHANG: I think I heard what you said. Basically, China is our main adversary, and countries like Russia, Iran, North Korea, they are only able to challenge the international system because China gives them strength. So really, this is a China issue. It's not an Iran issue or a Russia issue. It's basically one that's centered in Beijing, because China is extremely hostile to the United States inherently hostile in the nature of that regime.

MACCALLUM: Gordon, thank you very much. We'll speak again, very important story. Good to see you today.

eBay, now jumping on the canceled culture bandwagon, expected to delist banned books by Dr. Seuss. Dr. Ben Carson delivers his own spin on the classic "Cat in the Hat" coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON, FORMER SECRETARY, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT: And then something went bump, how that bump made us jump. We look then we saw him step on the mat. We looked and we saw him the cat in the hat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Of all the places Dr. Seuss will go or maybe won't go after canceled culture takes a big bite out of his legacy. Online retailer eBay is now telling the Wall Street Journal that they are currently removing the six books that were pulled by the Dr. Seuss Enterprises to prevent future resale. Children's books are now dominating Amazon's bestseller lists flying up the list nine of the top 10 are all by Dr. Seuss, so you see how that works.

Joining me now is Dr. Ben Carson, the former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development and founder and chairman of the American Cornerstone Institute. Dr. Carson, always good to see you. Thank you for being here today.

CARSON: Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: So, I understand that you want to express your feelings on this in poetry and I invite you to do so with your poem that you wrote about this now.

CARSON: Well, very good. I do not like to cancel books

I do not lock how that looks. I do not like it here nor there. I do not like it anywhere. I do not like it in the store. I do not want it anymore.

I do think it's time passed, no longer to have thought a crime. I do hope one day to see across my country (inaudible) books used to read and learn, instead of set ablaze to burn. Our heritage for all to share, little patriots everywhere. Our nation's story rich and vast, our true history taught in class, a special place for all to be a place known for its liberty.

You know, those are the kinds of things that Dr. Seuss did. He encouraged people. He made people believe that everybody was equal. And, you know, it's appropriate that we're talking about children's books because as a society, we're acting like children, like a child who's in charge who doesn't like peas. So he says, let's ban peas. Anybody eating peas or growing peas shall be killed. You know, that's childish thinking.

That's what we're doing right now and it's absolutely absurd. And I think the rest of the world is having a good belly laugh. And it's time for us to mature to grow up to recognize. You know, America was the beacon of liberty. It was the place where people came so that they could express themselves, so they could believe what they want to believe, so they could have religious freedom. It was a place where we believe that our liberties and freedoms came from God and not from government.

And, you know, the socialists believe that everything comes from government. We can't abide it.

MACCALLUM: You know, I think when you look back at books being banned, you'll find that in, throughout history, you don't want to be on the side of the folks that were doing that. It didn't really turn out very well in most cases. I remember when, you know, the discussion was "To Kill a Mockingbird," and classics, which we should always be taught in the context of the time in which they were written and published.

You know, I was actually heartened to see that the New York Public Library says that they're going to keep all of their Dr. Seuss books in publication and in circulation, I should say, at the library. But the fact that that encourages us, you know, just says something about where we are right now. And I agree with you that other countries must look at this. And I know Europe's looking at this and saying, well, too far, folks. Relax.

Carson: Well, I hope people will stop thinking about this as a political issue. It's not a political issue. This is about freedom in America. And that's what we're dealing with right now. We will determine what happens to our children and our grandchildren. Will they have a country where they can grow up and be free and where they can live up to their potential? Or will they have somebody trying to control every aspect of their life, including what they can say and what they cannot say. This is poison in our system.

MACCALLUM: Yes. It takes people pushing back and standing up. The President could have done that the other day, you know what, we're going to keep Dr. Seuss around, you know, you should teach it in context, or say anything as a parent that you want to say when you read any of these books, but give people the freedom to do so.

Dr. Carson, thank you. Thanks for the poem. Thank you for being here.

CARSON: All right. Thank you, Martha.

MACCALLUM: When you write another one, let us know. Come back.

CARSON: OK.

MACCALLUM: All right. So from New York to the Royal Palace, two really big scandals that are heating up right now. And the first on camera interview from one of Governor Cuomo accusers, so this digs deeper as well. Stick around, next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS EVENING NEWS ANCHOR: Do you believe that he was propositioning?

CHARLOTTE BENNETT, FORMER CUOMO AIDE: Yes.

O'DONNELL: For what?

BENNETT: Sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: Two big and very different scandals unfolding at this hour. In moments, we go live to Los Angeles as Buckingham Palace now says that it is investigating the claims against Meghan Markle. But first to New York where the lawyer for one of Governor Andrew Cuomo's accusers is poking holes in Cuomo's partial mea culpa. Correspondent Bryan Llenas live in Brooklyn for us. Hi, Bryan.

BRYAN LLENAS, CORRESPONDENT: Martha, Cuomo's former aide Charlotte Bennett is now revealing new details about her sexual harassment allegations against her former boss. You know, she says that he made inappropriate sexual remarks.

And tonight, she's detailing some of these things. She says that she talks about the culture of working in the Cuomo administration. She says she's spoken with other women who worked for him who've had similar experiences as hers. She claims the governor was grooming her Cuomo said he was lonely and asked her shocking questions about her sex life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: Do you believe that he was propositioning?

BENNETT: Yes.

O'DONNELL: For what?

BENNETT: Sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LLENAS: Yesterday, Governor Cuomo address the fact that Bennett says that the governor made her, well, she says made her highly uncomfortable. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I didn't know I was making her uncomfortable at the time. I feel badly that I did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LLENAS: Yes. But Bennett's lawyer says Cuomo did know what he was doing at the time, "My client, Charlotte Bennett, reported his sexually harassing behavior immediately to his Chief of Staff and Chief Counsel. We are confident that they made him aware of her complaint."

Cuomos's office says Bennett's complaint was handled in accordance with the law, but high ranking New York State Democratic Senator Liz Krueger doesn't think so telling Politico, I do not believe he followed his own policies or the law. Cuomo yesterday in the press conference said that he did take sexual harassment training. He's also asking New Yorkers to really withhold their judgment and so the AG's office finishes the independent investigation. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Bryan, thank you very much.

Now to Buckingham Palace where they say they will investigate the claims that Meghan Markle bullied two personal assistants so terribly that they quit. Megan and Prince Harry will reportedly not be involved in that investigation. Chief Correspondent Jonathan Hunt with the latest for us from their new home in Los Angeles. Hey, Jonathan.

JONATHAN HUNT, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Hey Martha. The bullying allegations first published in The Times of London. A former member of Meghan and Harry staff claiming Meghan's behavior left assistant shaking and in tears, and in two cases quitting. Buckingham Palace officials said they were "very concerned" and would look into the allegations. And added quote, "The royal household has had a dignity at work policy in place for a number of years and does not and will not tolerate bullying or harassment in the workplace."

Meghan and Harry now effectively estranged from the royal family sat for an interview recently with Oprah Winfrey, it will air on Sunday. In a promo clip, Meghan appeared to fire a warning shot at the palace or the firm, as insiders call it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I don't know how they could expect that after all of this time, we would still just be silent if there is an active role that the firm is playing in perpetuating falsehoods about us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So what are the Brits make of it all. For that as always, we turned to my mom who wasn't holding back today talking about the bullying claims and saying, "I am not at all surprised because Meghan has shown herself to be a spiteful person and I am disgusted with her."

It is well past (inaudible) o'clock in the English countryside where mom is sitting, so she may be a couple of glasses in. But having said that, Martha, she's also a pretty good judge of character.

MACCALLUM: She sounds like an excellent judge of character. Jonathan, thank you very much for that frontline reporting from mommy. We appreciate it. Thank you, Jonathan.

HUNT: Anytime.

MACCALLUM: So that is "The Story" of Thursday, March 4th. What do you think? What does your mom think about this whole thing? We're going to be back here with you tomorrow, of course, on the story. We look forward to joining you then at 3:00. "Your World with Neil Cavuto," though, starts right now. Have a great evening, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow.

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