This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 28, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

About three hours away from NFL kickoff. Players will begin taking the field for the first time since Monday's anthem protest, and there's expected to be some more controversy at tonight's Bears-Packers game. Green Bay says its players, coaches, and staff will link arms during the anthem this evening, and they've encouraged their fans to do the same. President Trump and a lot of other Americans upset with the league's ongoing demonstrations. He spoke exclusively about it with Fox News in a new interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The NFL cannot disrespect our country. They cannot disrespect our flag or our national anthem. And they can't have people sitting down or kneeling down during our national anthem. I have so many friends that are owners. And they're in a box. I mean, I've spoken to a couple of them. They say we're in a situation where we have to do something. I think they're afraid of their players, you want to know the truth, and I think it's disgraceful. And they've got to be tough, and they've got to be smart.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WATTERS: Afraid of their players, Kimberly. Well, according to the Washington Post, the NFL game operations manual says that, quote, all players must be on the sideline for the national anthem and must, quote, stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking or face discipline such as fines or suspension. So are the owners afraid of disciplining their players?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, it seems so, right? Because there's going to be public outrage either way. And they don't want the players to say, oh, in solitary we're going to walk out. I mean, you don't want this thing to escalate more than it has. You want to -- yes, encourage healthy discussions, absolutely. But they are there to do a job. And it is within the rules and the regulations. So again, I'm going to say this, Roger Goodell needs to handle this and meet with the owners and come to some kind of solution because it's bad for everybody. I mean, the players are now feeling like they're being put in a position. The owners feel like they're being put in a position. The NFL. It's just -- everybody is like a confluence of just total chaos.

WATTERS: And it looks like, Dana, tonight, according to reports, everyone is going to link arms and there may not be any kneeling. What does that signify to you?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That maybe they've reached a turning point, and they can figure out a way to get past this which I think would be good for everybody.


PERINO: I think that in a way, what's happened is because you have to -- you lose the ability to see each other as individuals when you're always fighting on a culture war. You're either on this team or that team. So I think what the owners have actually tried to do, and starting with Kaepernick, was to try to be thoughtful, respectful, and try to understand his views. Maybe they should have just tried to dealt with that right then. Fine immediately, like you're done. Out if here. That could have been one way.

GUILFOYLE: Set the example.

PERINO: But also the horse is out of the barn. So you're not going to be able to -- this has all happened. This is now out there in the open. And the only thing they can try to do is move past it because I think the players want to play. The fans want to enjoy it. And the owners want to make money. So I imagine that the president would rather talk about his tax reform plan.

WATTERS: That's right.


WATTERS: But this is also a lot of fun. Greg, what do you think?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It just becomes more and more comical every day. These are grown men, and they're engaging in this, kind of like -- it's almost like middle school playacting. I know the phrase virtue signaling is overdone, but it's like they're engaged in something that's almost not real. That it's just starting to spread like this weird hysterical social justice virus. And if they don't do it, and I think Trump is right -- I think they're scared. Because they're scared of online mob peer pressure. They're scared of being seen as, you know, when you have people saying, well, if you stand you're a racist. There are people saying that now.

So there is this peer pressure that is happening that you used to have in middle school. I thought the Cowboys created a pretty good solution. Kneel before the anthem because that removes the confusion. Here's what you have to understand, most Americans when they see you kneel during the anthem think you're protesting the flag. You can say no, no, no, we're not. It's about social injustice. But, you've got to forgive us for being confused. If you've got to explain your protest, your protest is a failed one. So separate it. Kneel somewhere else. And by the way, if I were a cop. You know, you've got to do your job there. They're kneeling because of the police. The cops should kneel when the players are coming out on the field.

WATTERS: And to that point of the message being lost, Michael Bennett the defensive end for the Seattle Seahawks, I thought put a really fine point on it. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHAEL BENNETT, SEATTLE SEAHAWKS: I would like to challenge every American that's watching this show to treat people better. That's really what it's about. It's about treating people like human beings. That's the first step. The first step is to recognize and see somebody as an equal being when you recognize them. This is not a violent protest. This is a peaceful protest, which channels to people spiritually. Not physically, spiritually, to change the way (INAUDIBLE).



WATTERS: What do you think about that, Juan?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I loved it. You know, I think it's a big challenge spiritually to have people acknowledge when you have social injustice in the country. So I don't think it's a failed protest by any means. In fact, I think it's a growing protest. And you look at the numbers, by the way, in terms of what Americans think. And Americans generally think, you know, it's not so cool to disrespect the flag in any way. But they also think what President Trump's response has been is way wrong. So that even more people that have any trouble with the kneeling when the flag is shown and the anthem played, more people say President Trump's response is out of order. And in specific, I think, people are still upset over the idea that he would use the term SOB's to describe the players.


GUTFELD: . cops dress as pigs on socks.


WILLIAMS: You know that's so small and so trivial.


GUTFELD: what's the difference?

WILLIAMS: The difference is, one is a substantive important issue in our society. Having to do with the way people.

GUTFELD: Cops looking like pigs?

WILLIAMS: No. I mean, the other one is basically a caricature and it's a silly thing. That's what all it is.

GUTFELD: While cops are getting shot and killed.

WILLIAMS: . of what's taking place. And I think when we think about how the players are kneeling, how the owners are handling it, what you see is people trying to signal. I think what's the Packers are doing tonight, Jesse, are trying to signal -- you know what? Let the fans get involved and show that they too understand what the players are saying. They don't have to necessarily agree with every aspect of it, but the idea is you would acknowledge that there is a social problem with the way police deal with black people in this country.

GUTFELD: This is a social problem without black men dealing with other black men. There is more violence between black men and black men than black men and white cops.

WILLIAMS: So that excuse what goes on, Greg?

GUTFELD: No. I would like to see an equal amount of attention devoted to that.

WILLIAMS: I think that there is a ton. And we play a lot.

GUTFELD: Not by the players. They're kneeling.

WILLIAMS: Are you kidding?

GUTFELD: They're kneeling during the anthem to protest police violence against cops.

WILLIAMS: This is like saying, oh, you know, these guys don't know what they're standing far. They don't know what they're doing.

GUTFELD: They can't explain it.



WILLIAMS: In fact, the owners had made the point that the players are involved in social causes, in charities, that they do a great deal. This is not about somehow a bunch of juveniles who don't know what they're doing or don't know how to protest.

GUTFELD: What's the difference between social injustice and injustice?

WILLIAMS: I think this is a social injustice.

GUTFELD: What's the difference?

WILLIAMS: . economic injustice.

GUTFELD: No, no, no.


GUTFELD: Tell me the difference between injustice and social injustice?


WILLIAMS: This is a social injustice in terms of race relations inside our own country.

WATTERS: I would say, to disagree with you, Juan, that if the mission of the protest was to talk about police brutality, that failed. No one is talking about police brutality right now. We're talking about disrespecting the flag, and they're talking about Trump. And I believe that everybody agrees that you have a right to protest a noble issue, which is being against police brutality, but the time to do it is not during the national anthem.


WILLIAMS: Let me say, that's why you had a 91-year-old veteran in Missouri, white man, taking a knee, and why? I just want to show you that this is a 60-year-old black veteran wearing an American legion hat the other day in Indianapolis as the president's motorcade ran by taking a knee.

WATTERS: But you've also had veterans burning their jerseys and their season tickets to protests what's going on the field, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: The problem is that the message, you know, important. That people want to be against police brutality or injustice. Fine. But it is getting lost, you're right, because we're talking about Trump. We're talking about everything else. And talking about why people are disrespecting the flag. They're not talking about that issue. I think the issue that they want to talk -- they have absolutely every right to do so, OK? But it doesn't give people then the right to disrespect the hardworking men and women that are police officers and law enforcement in this country by large measures that serve admirably and courageously and put their lives on the line every day.

So I have no tolerance for that kind of disrespect of officers when you're doing things like this and calling for police officers, pigs in a blanket, and for them to be killed, and behaving the way people are. I agree with Michael Bennett of the Seahawks. Treat everybody, treat people with respect. Make people feel like they're present, like they count, like you see them, you hear them, and try to lend a listening ear when someone has something to tell you about how they feel.

WATTERS: Right. Just as we want black men to be respected by police officers, we want veterans to be respected by the players on the field during the anthem.


WATTERS: The polling says 64 percent think players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem. This looks like the country is pretty much in agreement on this.

PERINO: Well, yes. In the Fox News poll last night, it showed that year- over-year, actually, people who thought that it was acceptable to, basically, protest the anthem, whether it be kneeling or whatever, that that, actually -- is gone up. Not by six points in a year. Maybe that's because we're talking about it more. I would also say on the social media thing, listen to what Senator Lankford said. He was talking about these Russian troll farms doing it again, like they did in the election. They take people's pictures from the internet, make fake accounts, and then they either #takeaknee or #boycottNFL, and it looks like there's a whole bunch more controversy than there's actually is because they want to sell chaos.

WATTERS: The Russians again.

PERINO: I'm just saying.

WATTERS: Call Mueller.

PERINO: But if you feel like there's a lot of peer pressure on a certain issue, like -- know that half of that is probably fake people, robots, and Russia, trying to do that to cause chaos.

GUILFOYLE: Russian robots.


WATTERS: Right up your alley.

GUTFELD: Everything put together in one night.


GUTFELD: By the way, I think, Juan, I think you are misinterpreting me. I'm not against the protest. I'm just saying it's a failed protest when people are confused by it. That's what I'm saying. I think people are confused by what it is because they found the wrong symbol to kneel in front of. You can protest all you want. And bosses have a right to be upset if it's on the clock. That makes sense to me. But it's OK. Don't get fine, they don't get suspended, so what? Life goes on. We're making it this into some kind of hysterical soap opera because, I don't know why, because identity politics. There's no way out of it. Once you get in it, you're stuck.

WILLIAMS: This is America. This is American history. We talked about how -- this is a football league that wouldn't hire black people for a long people. That was white identity politics, OK? We talk about who gets to play quarterback.

GUTFELD: You're explaining it again.

WILLIAMS: . white identity politics. You don't want me to explain it?

GUTFELD: No, no, no. What I'm saying is the protest was about police.


GUTFELD: And you're explaining -- never mind. I'm sorry.


GUTFELD: It would be great if this protest was clear and that everybody understood.

WILLIAMS: OK, I'll tell you what's very clear. You look at the poll numbers it says like, you know, 57 percent disapprove of Trump's response, 48 percent say they don't like the idea of the players kneeling when the anthem is played. But remember, 57 percent said Trump went over the line. Only 30 percent think, in fact, that a player should be fired, which is what Mr. Trump called for, firing players. And people think this is a form of protest. If you want to do it, it's on you. We may not agree, but you shouldn't be fired for speaking your mind.

GUTFELD: But you have to understand, a businessman, when he looks at an event which is a place of work and you're doing it on the clock -- a businessman.

GUILFOYLE: And you have a contract.

(CROSSTALK) WILLIAMS: But guess what. That's not what the owners are saying. The owners are saying.

GUTFELD: That's up to them.

WILLIAMS: . in fact, we want to join and show the players are unified.

GUTFELD: Because they're scared

GUILFOYLE: Because they're afraid.

WILLIAMS: And that raise another point with a lot of people. I don't know if you notice this, people say, oh, is he saying that the white owners are afraid of the black players?


(CROSSTALK) WATTERS: I think we can all agree that the linking of the arms that's a much better positive step than kneeling during the anthem.

GUTFELD: Maybe we can all do calisthenics.

(LAUGHTER) WATTERS: One of the most heartwarming emotional scenes ever, not a bad idea, on Capitol Hill as house majority whip Steve Scalise returns to congress months after surviving an assassination attempt. Trust me. Do not miss this, next.


GUILFOYLE: More than three months ago, house majority whip Steve Scalise miraculously survived an attempt to assassinate GOP lawmakers on a baseball field in Virginia. Today, he returned to the job for the first time since the shooting in a packed house chamber filled with joy.




GUILFOYLE: Then, the Louisiana congressmen delivered an emotional address to his colleagues.


STEVE SCALISE, HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You have no idea how great this feels to be back here at work in the people's house.


SCALISE: When I was laying on that ball field, the first thing I did once I was down and I couldn't move anymore, is that I started to pray. And I will tell you it gave me an unbelievable sense of calm knowing at that point it was in God's hands. A lot of people ask did this event change you? Yes, it changed me but not in the ways you might think. It's only strengthened my faith in God, and it's really crystallized what shows up as the goodness in people. I got to see that goodness in people.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Scalise thanked the Capitol Hill officers who saved his life and countless others that day in June. And then, he had a personal message for all of the lawmakers in that room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SCALISE: When I come back into this chamber here today, just seeing the faces of all of you, it just means more to me that you can imagine. So thanks for all that love and support. We are the people's house. This is the place where these ideas are supposed to be debated, and we fight through those issues, but ultimately we come together on whatever the board shows us 218. If you can put the majority together, that's what rules the day. It's so important that as we're having those political battles we don't make them personal. I am so honored to be back here in the house serving with you. God bless each and every one of you. And God bless the United States of America.


(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: What a special moment. And a man who really just fought for his life. There were moment that was very touch and go. Where people thought he wasn't going to make it. But he said through faith and prayers and the courageous, Ms. Dana, of those officers putting their life on the line to be able to save him and the other lawmakers. Truly a powerful moment, I think. And a really impactful message to say -- you know, respect our differences. We can debate, but ultimately we have this system of governance.

PERINO: And incredible work also by the health care workers. The doctors, nurses, the emergency room, and also the rehabilitation because -- our news cycle goes so fast it's hard -- this was actually only two and a half months ago that this shooting took place and, of course, it was so traumatic. And remember, when President Trump and the first lady go to the hospital to visit, the question was, was he going to make it? The injury could have severed an artery and this story would not be as wonderful as it is today. So, yes, I think an amazing return. And you see his colleagues all seemed genuinely happy to have him back. And our own, Lauren Fine, who used to work here as a producer, is now his press secretary for the majority whip and has been working hard to make this moment happened. I think it was flawless.

GUILFOYLE: It was fantastic. So she did a wonderful job. It must have been her time here with us on The Five. Greg, powerful moment. And, you know, he brings up the message that capitol officers saved his life. And I have to tell you, thank God that they were armed and there to be able to protect the people.

GUTFELD: Yeah, it is. It's also amazing how strong he sounds after two and a half months. It points out a really strange sad reason for him being alive was that the surgeons were able to save a gunshot victim because they're so good at it now. I mean, they've got a lot of practice in D.C. and in other states working on gunshot victims. It reminds you the number of gunshot victims -- murder victims could be much worse than they are now, but it's being covered by the fact that these surgeons are so good in saving lives. Imagine the numbers in Chicago or in D.C. So it's not a reduction, really, in homicides, but surgeons and technology reducing murders. That's kind of amazing. To your point, our news cycle -- this thing would have been a huge, huge deal for a year.


GUTFELD: But it seems like it happen a forever ago, because we're so constantly turning through stories, you know.

GUILFOYLE: It's unbelievable. So happy to see him and his family, too. My goodness. So nice.

WATTERS: Yeah. It was a powerful moment. I'm not the most devout guy. But when he was talking about prayer, he's talking about people coming together, you just get the chills running up and down your spine. He wasn't supposed to survive. That was a gunshot wound in the part of the body that's not really supposed to sustain bullets like that, and he fought back. Now, Gabby Giffords, also shot and in the head, fought back, recovered bravely. We talked about on 9/11, the anniversary, the United Flight 93 people that stormed the cockpit. When you look at Harvey, people wrestling other Americans out of the water into safety. Is those moments where you really see the fighting American spirit and it inspires people. And it inspires you to come together as a fellow American. But now these moments are so few and far between. We were united after 9/11 for a while.


WATTERS: Then Iraq tore us apart. The Scalise shooting. A couple of months ago, we had that moment where we reflected about our rhetoric. That's gone, especially after Charlottesville. Then Harvey hit and we looked at the Texas resilience. And then now, suddenly, we're talking about the divisiveness of the kneelers.


WATTERS: So people just need to recognize this country is much stronger when we're together and not divided.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So the message of unity, Juan, of healthy discussion and debate, that ultimately, at the end of the day, if you can put 218 up and the majority will rule, but -- you know, we can respect each other in that debate process along the way.

WILLIAMS: Well, absolutely. I hope that's the message people take away from this because I think we need more of it. And oftentimes, it seems you know, division and angers rule the day. What it comes down too, is I think Americans do honor each other. And I love it when Scalise -- he did an interview with 60 Minutes.


WILLIAMS: . in which he talked about what the doctors did for him at MedStar Washington Hospital Center, and he said in very humorous terms, they put humpty dumpty back together again because he described all the damage in that pelvic area. And how, you know, in fact, he then later had an infection. It took a lot of work and a lot of time. So looking at him, knowing him, I can see he's lost weight but, boy, I thought he looked much better than I would ever have guessed. I thought he was going to look like a shell, but no. It looks like Steve Scalise is still in there and his spirit stronger than ever.

PERINO: He's a good majority whip in terms of his skill to being able to get lawmakers to be all on the same page. And the president is going to need that going into that tax reform debate.

GUILFOYLE: And I hope they listen a little bit extra closely. Well, God bless him and his family. As Dana said, the men and women that saved his life in the hospital, and capitol officers as well. Ahead, the woman accused of leaking NSA secrets is trying to blame us for the crime. This one, well, you're going to have to stay tuned to hear.


GUTFELD: What is going on behind me? All right.

Do you remember reality winner? The NSA contractor who leaked top-secret info on Russians meddling in our elections claimed she was mad at her employer for having Fox News on their office TV. Yes, it's all our fault. Especially, Lou Dobbs. But I get it. Fox News can be annoying: We're always reporting what other networks leave out. Being fair and balanced can drive you nuts, constantly challenge your worldview. By the way, at my gym the TVs are always on Bravo so it's all Kardashians. Congratulations, Kim, by the way, on the pregnancy. It's enough to make you puke on the stair-climber. But I don't commit treason over it. I just puke. But at every airport, it's always CNN. A shouting Ana Navarro at every gate. Still, I don't commit a crime. I just find a screaming baby nearby and listen to that instead.

But Reality's attitude is too common. It's this: "I'm not getting what I want, so you're going to pay." It's a childish response to life's challenges and thrives among those too jaded to see a country full of opportunity. Thanks to a media asserting that every cloudy day is someone else's fault, we've got a generation biting the hand that has overfed them. They're ignorant of their lucky birth in a nation affording them the luxury of petulance.

But if life gives you lemons, or FOX News, you make lemonade or you put on the headphones. America offers a million choices. Betraying it doesn't have to be one of them.

But I guess these days when traitors are now heroes, why not? Chelsea Manning is 2017's Che Guevara. Snowden is a Hollywood icon. And Reality Winner will have a press agent soon enough.

Good for her: immature, bitter, nutty. She could fill an hour on MSNBC.

You know, so many ways to go with this. A little thrown off by having somebody run across the stage as I'm starting to talk.

FNC is gaining, Dana. I mean, it's guilty. It's guilty.

GUILFOYLE: Gaining weight? What?

GUTFELD: I'm gaining weight.

WATTERS: Come on.

GUILFOYLE: And they're guilty for that. They caused him to gain weight.

PERINO: So I don't know whether she was being sarcastic or flippant when she was talking to the FBI.


PERINO: When they released a transcript, she says -- she said, "I filed formal complaints about them having FOX News on, you know. Just at least, for God sakes, put Al Jazeera on or a slideshow with people's pets. I've tried everything to get that changed."

Now, she's a young woman. She might just be being flippant. But as I recall, even in the situation room at the White House, they have all the cable television shows on.


PERINO: At all times. Because sometimes things happen in the world that you don't know about. So maybe she doesn't want to have to watch this show, but you never know. We might have breaking news.

GUTFELD: All right, Juan, I'm going to go to you to provide balance. She was in the Air Force, right?


GUTFELD: She was an Air Force vet. She didn't do -- she didn't pull a Snowden. She didn't just pull an indiscriminate amount of stuff. She'd hunt and peck for stuff that was specifically about Trump, am I right?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. No, no. It was spear fishing -- the spear fishing effort by the Russians is what she was at. She wanted it known.

And then it's interesting, because the FBI guy, the interviewer says, "What about sources and methods? Because even if you said this should be out. Americans should know that what the Russians are doing and influencing the election, don't you think you're giving away government methods and sources?"

And she says, "Oh, I thought it was just a drop in the bucket. They must know because they're so effective."

GUTFELD: So I don't know. Kimberly...


GUTFELD: She snuck files out in her pantyhose.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, we have a situation here. I don't believe that. Who says and wears pantyhose?

PERINO: I just think -- I am just skeptical that she would use the word pantyhose. It's a little antiquated. You and I grew up saying it. I don't know if a young woman would. And most young women don't wear them.

GUTFELD: I say "nylons" when I'm wearing them.

GUILFOYLE: I say "pantyhose." But sometimes I say "nylons." Dana's like, "Well, who wears those?" I said, well, I do every day for, like, 11 years here. I'm cracking up. It was very funny. I don't like that I have that in common with her. Maybe she put them on and put the files in them. It's like...

PERINO: Maybe that's true. Maybe she just brought them for that purpose.

GUILFOYLE: Hanes Her Way at the NSA. I don't know.

But look, she's going to make an excuse about this. Everyone wants to drag FOX News into something to say, "OK, it's FOX News's fault. FOX News triggered her. She needed a safe place at the NSA so that she wouldn't feel upset. And then therefore, you know, do what she did and commit these crimes against the United States."

I mean, how did the FBI keep a straight face when they listened to this nonsense? Like, that's not a get-out-of-jail-free card. FYI.

PERINO: I thought that, too. Not a good excuse.

GUTFELD: Jesse, do you think -- I mean, she served in the Air Force. Was that kind of why she got clearance? I mean, like they just give the benefit of the doubt? She served her country. That's enough. But I mean, you can still get a bad egg, you know, in a huge bucket of great eggs.

WATTERS: True, but I mean, the hiring process needs some vigilant review. Apparently, she said Trump is a piece of "S." And she said, "'F' the wall." So let's look into that a little more closely.

She also said, "Let's be straight. There's no security on documents. Nobody pats you down." Let's check up on that, as well.

GUTFELD: So she kind of helped!

WATTERS: Yes. She also said she had a signed...

PERINO: There's a hole in the hose.

WATTERS: She had a signed photo of CNN anchor Anderson Cooper they found on her, although she said the signature was fake. I say add another ten years to the sentence for that.

I think the FOX News defense is a good defense with all the left-wing judges. They'll probably buy that. We also should play FOX News at all the federal buildings, just to smoke out all these resisters. It will trigger them to commit felonies, and we'll just put them in jail.

GUILFOYLE: Catch them all and just swoop them?

WATTERS: Swoop them up.


GUTFELD: All right.

GUILFOYLE: What an idea.

WATTERS: She's like the female Sandy Berger. Remember the guy? Putting the stuff down his pants?

PERINO: The late Sandy Berger.

GUTFELD: Coming up, the so-called GOP establishment hoping for Trump to fail. That is what Rush Limbaugh thinks. Hear from him next.


WILLIAMS: I've been saying this for months. The Republican Party is splitting apart. And after health care failed once again, it has many of us asking if President Trump will be able to get any of his agenda through the Congress. Rush Limbaugh, one of the president's biggest supporters, says no.

And here's why.


RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: They don't want Trump to succeed with his agenda; they can't afford that. I'm not -- I'm not exaggerating here, and I'm not trying to say things that will be in a soundbite that FOX replays the rest of the day. They don't want...

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Five days, Rush. They play it five days.

LIMBAUGH: They don't want -- they can't afford for him to succeed with his agenda. They can't afford it.

The lid's blown. The gig is over. The joke is revealed. If an outsider with no prior political experience can come in and fix messes that people have been promised would be fixed for 30 years, how does that make them look? They can't allow that to happen.


WILLIAMS: Greg, there's Rush Limbaugh, who is probably the loudest voice on the right, saying Mitch McConnell, nah. Paul Ryan, nah.

GUTFELD: I'd like to point out that I said that the Kardashians were on Bravo when, in fact, they're actually on the E! network. That was a test. If you knew that fact, we're no longer friends.

I think that -- you know what's great?

GUILFOYLE: That was a sorrowful apology.

GUTFELD: I think -- I think that Rush should play this segment on his show tomorrow of us talking about that segment. And then tomorrow after that, we'll play the segment of Rush talking about this segment, talking about that segment. And then "FOX & Friends" can do it on Saturday. And then Judge Jeanine can do a follow-up on the "FOX & Friends" coverage.

PERINO: I'll do it Monday at 2.

GUTFELD: But you can't leave out Steve Hilton.


GUTFELD: Steve Hilton on Sunday can come in and do...

GUILFOYLE: Don't break the chain.

GUTFELD: He can come in and do all of the weekend coverage, and then we'll do a recap...

PERINO: On -- on "The Five."

GUTFELD: On Monday. There we go.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is.

GUTFELD: That's what he said. We're going to do it. We are going to do it.

WILLIAMS: Well, but back to the substance of it, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, what was it? It was like a chain letter or something.

WILLIAMS: But President Trump at dinner -- at a dinner with big donors here in New York on Monday, said, apparently...

GUILFOYLE: At the Bouquet (ph).


GUILFOYLE: Fantastic restaurant. I recommend highly...

WILLIAMS: Very good.

GUILFOYLE: ... the Asian chicken with the fries. It is, I'm telling you, phenomenal.

WILLIAMS: All right. So at this dinner he says he thinks McConnell is weak. Then when he's asked about it by reporters he says, "Well, you know, we'll see how things work out with the tax plan, and it's up to Congress to decide whether or not McConnell is weak." What do you -- what's your take?

GUILFOYLE: True story? Do I think all of that happened?

WILLIAMS: No, do you think it's fair to McConnell?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know if it's fair to McConnell or not. I mean, I don't know. I'd be, like, checking my wind socks, since it's not looking too heavy or deep right now.

But besides that, you know, people are blaming things on him. The president is displeased. So you know, there's a number of different factors at play here. But you know, you should be getting the legislative reforms through that you promised the American people. And one of the key players that is integral in making that happen and effectuating that outcome is McConnell. So, you know, and the leadership in the House and the Senate.

WILLIAMS: That's a good point, but on the other hand, I think people in the Congress, the Republicans in the Congress are saying, you know, where is the leadership from the White House? Normally, the president would take the lead on something like health care, but President Trump doesn't get involved in the details and leaves that to the Congress, Jesse. And, you know, at this moment, then he wants to blame them for not getting the job done. How do you see it?

WATTERS: Well...

GUILFOYLE: Makes a lot of calls.

WATTERS: ... Congress actually did repeal Obamacare, so I'm not sure how much we can blame Paul Ryan. There's other stuff you can blame him for, not that. That falls on McConnell in the Senate.

And Trump is going to be very aggressive on pushing tax reform. You can see that in a bunch of speeches he's prepared to make all over the country.

On the Rush thing, I'm going to say it: Rush is right. I don't know if people want to see Trump fail because they're just sloppy and discombobulated and can't get things through the Senate, or there's a lot of people that are resisting him, because they resisted him in the primaries. People resisted him even in his own party in the general election. They were more concerned about conserving their congressional majorities.

And then you have leaks also. You have the Russia investigation. Obama repeal failed. There's a lot of suspicions out there about the establishment.

So I think Trump's biggest kryptonite right now is inaction. Because he's such a man of action. He's just constantly moving. And the voters wanted action. They voted for Republicans to control both houses. They voted for a Republican in the White House. They want to get things done. So when things stall and it returns the status quo, that drives the president crazy. And that's why you see him triangulate with Nancy and Crying Chuck, because he's just going to pivot around them.

WILLIAMS: All right, so Dana I'm just going to let you respond, and then I'm going to interrupt you. Go right ahead.

PERINO: Just like every segment.

The -- the idea that the establishment is not for Trump, I think, was true a year ago. But the FOX News poll shows consistently and again last night, 83 percent of the Republicans support Trump.

The last two big major efforts that failed failed because of, basically, four or five Republicans in the Senate. Those are not Mitch McConnell. Now, maybe his leadership is not good enough to try to get those four people to vote with the majority. But also, perhaps you need to have better policy that they would want to vote for.

And these are huge, complex issues. As Greg called the health care issue the La Brea tar pit yesterday.

WILLIAMS: One quick interruption. So Roy Moore gets elected to be the Republican in Alabama this week. That's pressure on President Trump coming from the right. Isn't it?

PERINO: Right. Well, it showed that in Alabama, for example -- and this is probably going to be true in other states -- you can run without Trump's endorsement and still win the Republican nomination.


PERINO: But you cannot run against Trump and expect to win in the nomination, nor the general.

WILLIAMS: We'll see.

Catch the full interview with Rush on "Hannity" at 9 p.m. Eastern.

Next up, an icon passes away. How Hugh Hefner became a pioneer for free speech in America. Stay with us.

GUTFELD: Who keeps...



HUGH HEFNER, FOUNDER OF "PLAYBOY": We were on the right side of censorship from the very beginning. I think that what one has to understand is what the First Amendment is all about is, it is first. It's primary. If you don't have free speech and press, you don't have democracy.


PERINO: Hugh Hefner, founder of "Playboy" magazine, passed away last night at the age of 91. He was a controversial figure in media for decades.

And Greg, you were in media for not as many decades, but you understand publishing very well. What do you think about Hugh Hefner?

GUTFELD: Well, I like the way it's being framed as a First Amendment thing. He was a capitalist. He was making money off naked women. Let's not pretend that this was a big First Amendment thing.

However, if you look back at Playboy and how quaint it is, compared to the way life is now, our audience was probably raised on the idea of scarcity. It was -- it was exciting if you saw a magazine, because that's all you saw. When you were a teenager, you had to, like -- you had to sneak a peek at Playboy at the barbershop.

Unfortunately, pornography now is the opposite of scarcity. It's plentiful. It's like water. It's trucked into your home via bandwidth, and it's because of decentralization, which has killed -- it's killed Playboy, killed the way iTunes killed albums. Now you can get as much as you want whenever you want. And it's -- it's changing people. I think it's turning teenagers into their own Hugh Hefners, where they're creating their own pornography at home.

You have a jaded generation that's more inclined to the easy access of porn than actually going out and meeting someone and dating someone. And what is that going to do?

Physical attraction was supposed to get you outside to meet somebody, to marry somebody. It's like -- it's like if they invented a food they didn't have any calories, but it tasted just like food, and so you ate that food. Over time, your species would die. That is what is happening.

GUILFOYLE: Like kale?

GUTFELD: Yes, like kale. But that is what is happening with -- humans are becoming more and more inhuman when it comes to physical attraction, because they don't need to go out and actually meet somebody.

We don't like talking about this, but it is affecting families. It's affecting marriages. If you talk to any priest or parish, they will tell you this is a big problem, because -- because the biggest vulnerability to monogamy is sexual novelty. And pornography is now being trucked into your house like that all the time. And monogamy is strong until you get to that point. That is the biggest challenge.

And it is a big issue, but nobody wants to talk about it. Instead they talk about freedom and liberation. But we have -- there's no way you're going to change this. But at least you should acknowledge the reality of what has happened since Playboy came out, which is we now have something -- we have a faucet of flesh in our house.

WILLIAMS: You know, I couldn't agree -- I couldn't agree more. But I just want to say how he changed what it meant to be a man in America.

And the emphasis, putting aside the legitimate point you made about the flood of pornography, is the emphasis on the sophisticated lifestyle, the cosmopolitan lifestyle. The high-tech, the beautiful women, the latest...

GUTFELD: Don't you think it's cheesy, with the pipe and the robe?


WILLIAMS: ... and stuff. It wasn't -- see, it wasn't cheesy -- Post-World War II, 1950s America was a pretty prudish place.


WILLIAMS: And you weren't supposed to acknowledge the girl next door. Hugh Hefner did that in a big way.

And I think this generation, to pick up on what Greg's saying, doesn't get that part of it. It's all about the naked girl. So if you said, "OH, I occasionally looked at Playboy, because I thought the articles were good," people just "Ha, ha, ha!" But guess what? Lenny Bruce.

GUILFOYLE: They had good articles.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Lenny Bruce...

PERINO: Remember James Rosen did the interview of Vice President Cheney in Playboy?

WILLIAMS: Right there. Yes, of course, now the magazine's totally gone. They tried to do away with the pornography, and guess what happened, Greg?


WILLIAMS: No magazine.


PERINO: Jesse, one last word?

WATTERS: I'm going to cede my time to Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I went to the Halloween party.

WATTERS: Yes, that's what we want to know.

WILLIAMS: How was it?

GUILFOYLE: It was nice.

PERINO: Did you have a costume?


WATTERS: What were you?

GUILFOYLE: I was a police officer.

GUTFELD: Handcuffs, huh?

PERINO: We will let that sink in for the audience. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUTFELD: We've got to get pictures.


WATTERS: It is time now for "One More Thing" -- Dana.

PERINO: So yesterday was a fun and furry day in Kennebunkport, Maine, with the Bush family.

Forty-one and Barbara Bush hosted veterans and their pets featured in a new book, "Vets and Pets: Wounded Warriors and the Animals That Helped Heal Them." It has 15 stories of wounded veterans, their pets and how they help in civilian life.

And it wasn't just dogs. There was an owl, a screech owl. Apparently,, one had a little accident on 41, which is good luck, I've heard.

GUTFELD: Whooo did that?

PERINO: And there is a pig.

And Barbara Bush wrote the forward for the book. And a portion of the proceeds, the profits will go to Pets for Patriots to help that worthy cause.

GUILFOYLE: How great is this family? Honestly, always doing such wonderful things. God bless them.

WATTERS: Well, I have a better animal segment than that. Who likes elephants? Roll the tape.




WATTERS: That is a baby elephant in China sliding down a forest on his belly.

PERINO: Nice music choice.

GUILFOYLE: Thank Bob Monaco for that.

WATTERS: Isn't that beautiful?

GUILFOYLE: Where in China was that?

WATTERS: It's a province. I think it was...

GUTFELD: Don't do it.


WILLIAMS: I must tell you, I sent that video to my kids. Everybody said, "That's got to be your 'One More Thing'." But you got it, Jesse. I've loved it.

WATTERS: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis says one of the biggest threats to America: lack of political unity. And guess what? Apparently, the Russians agree, and they've used social media ad buys to exploit the fact.

Now being reported that Russian brought over $100,000 worth of Facebook ads during the '16 election and created hundreds of fake Twitter accounts. And they used these ads to ignite divisive hot-button issues like gay rights, gun-control, immigration, and race.

They bought a lot of Black Lives Matter ads, targeted certain -- both sides of it, by the way -- and even targeted certain geographic areas like Baltimore. In every case, the ads favored Trump over Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: All right. And "Kimberly's Royal News." Again, back by popular demand.

All right. Courtesy of Dana Perino, who gave it to me. All right. So earlier this week, I told you about Prince Harry's appearance with his girlfriend at the Invictus Games. It was fabulous. Take a look at this little video. A little munchkin stealing some popcorn from the fabulous prince. Look at that. It's no problem. She says, "Let me help myself to that." It's a combination of "Food Court" and "Royal News." We love it.

WATTERS: Very good. Greg, quickly.

GUTFELD: I'm good.

WATTERS: You're good?


PERINO: Going to save that one for tomorrow?

GUTFELD: Going to save it. It's too long.

GUILFOYLE: He's ranting and raving.

WATTERS: OK. Thank God. Set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" up next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2017 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2017 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.