This is a rush transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," August 17, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated
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BILL O'REILLY, HOST: You know, one of the more popular features on "The Factor" has been our body language segment, in which we take a look beyond what people are saying and zero in on what they're thinking based upon their physical cues.
We first introduced our analyst Tonya Reiman to you last November. She's an expert in communications, both verbal and physical. We begin this evening's program with our very first body language segment and Tonya's analysis of my interview with President Bush.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe the decisions I have made, no matter how difficult they are, are going to make this world a better place.
O'REILLY: If they don't? If it doesn't work in Iraq and other things like that?
BUSH: Well, it's going to work in Iraq. And unless we leave before the job is finished. There's a lot of positive things in Iraq. Such as 15 million Iraqis that voted for an election.
Now, admittedly things have changed since the election. And the fundamental question is do we have the flexibility in our plan to meet the enemy as the enemy adjusts? And we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: All right. So what did you learn from that?
TONYA REIMAN, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, there's a couple of different things that I noticed. First thing I noticed, that he seems to be a little bit intimidated by your height. He doesn't want to look up to you. And he has to look up to you. So one of the things he does is he looks to the side instead of looking directly at you.
And I also noticed that he pulls back and goes forward, which is just also another indication of his nervousness in terms of he's uncomfortable with this conversation. He doesn't want to have this conservation.
O'REILLY: But he wanted to do the walk and talk. I didn't want to do it. I told him.
REIMAN: Do you see how he keeps turning? He keeps turning towards you. That's a bonding mechanism. What he's trying to do is get you to a point where he can build rapport, so you're more on his side, because you seem to be the more confident of the two.
O'REILLY: Now when we're sitting like we're seeing here, he's more relaxed, right?
REIMAN: He's more relaxed up on top. When you look at the bottom of him, you'll see he's "leaking." What does that mean? His legs are shaking. His foot is tapping. He's going back and forth a little bit. So you can see, nervousness doesn't always come out on the top half. A lot of times, nervousness comes out in the bottom half.
O'REILLY: Yes, but when you're in any interview in front of millions of people, you're going to be a little tense, right?
REIMAN: As the president he's been in front of millions of people constantly. And he's used to it. And if you see him in an environment where he's feeling good about what he's saying, you don't notice the leakage as much.
O'REILLY: OK. But this was a fairly, you know, intense interview about the most controversial things of the day.
REIMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
O'REILLY: John Kerry, we'll roll the tape on this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: Are you going to let Iran have a nuclear weapon? Are you?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS) No.
O'REILLY: So you would be prepared — you would be prepared to use the full force of the American military to stop them from having a nuclear weapon?
KERRY: You never take any option off the table, and every option ought to remain there. But let me tell you something, if you talk to any of the military planners here in Washington or any of the smart security people in our country, everyone will tell you what a risky and dangerous option ultimately that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: Now, what did you learn from that?
REIMAN: One of the first things I saw when I watched this clip was he was going like this, "Yes, I will," which of course, is incongruent. So what he's saying is something other than what he's feeling. He's feeling internally no, but he's saying yes. So there's a big incongruency.
And then he follows that up with, "You never take all the options off the table." So initially he starts off with no and then kind of changes his mind, midway.
O'REILLY: So if you were reading that interview as a professional, you would say that John Kerry was going to let Iran have nuclear weapons?
REIMAN: Not necessarily. I would say there's an internal struggle within him, and he's not sure.
O'REILLY: Not sure yet?
REIMAN: So he's going to say one thing to you but internally, he's not really sure what's going to happen.
O'REILLY: Now what about demeanor? Was he nervous?
REIMAN: No. He's very, very good in terms of his body language. It's almost as if he's been coached. He's not a big gesticulator. He's very calm and he's very relaxed, for the most part.
O'REILLY: And what about me with the little finger pointing? That's pretty obnoxious?
REIMAN: Yes. Well, not obnoxious but more your way of saying I'm superior. I'm...
O'REILLY: I'm superior?!
REIMAN: I'm superior.
O'REILLY: Is that — when I wave that finger that's what I'm saying? I'm superior.
REIMAN: Yes. Absolutely. That's what it is.
O'REILLY: I don't feel that way.
REIMAN: You know what? Unconsciously, you might feel like you have the stronger point between the two of you.
O'REILLY: Well, maybe that's true. But I don't feel like I'm superior to the guy.
REIMAN: It's just a sign that says, "I know a little bit more than you do and I feel like my point is more valid than your point."
O'REILLY: That's what the finger says, right?
Oprah. Roll the tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Isn't there a place in the middle, because as you described, S-P's, secular-progressives, can there not be secular-progressives who also believe that the United States is a noble and great country?
O'REILLY: Not really, because the fundamental change that they want, structural change — this is where — let's get specific. Can we get down?
WINFREY: Get down.
O'REILLY: All right. We're getting down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: What did you learn from that?
REIMAN: A couple of different things. Oprah starts off with this, which is a power figure, OK?
O'REILLY: What, the steeple?
REIMAN: The steeple is power. And then suddenly, she gives you some of the power.
What do you do? When she asks you a question, you pull back. The pull back says no, I disagree with you. And that's exactly what your verbal said, as well. You said, "No, I don't feel that way." And you pulled back away from her, which indicates a disagreement.
O'REILLY: OK. What else? Were we both relaxed, both on equal terms?
REIMAN: Yes. She was — well, she's jovial to begin with. She has a good demeanor in terms of how she carries herself. You seemed very relaxed and very at ease, and comfortable.
O'REILLY: I was on a lot of tranquillizers. Now, that's not true.
REIMAN: I think out of the four, this was the clip that you looked the most comfortable.
O'REILLY: Well, it was a different forum.
O'REILLY: It wasn't — she was interviewing me. I wasn't interviewing the other people.
O'REILLY: So that's the difference.
All right. Let's roll the Letterman clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": Terrorism now is a far more — it's white hot, where previous to the disruption in Iraq, it was a fact of life. It was a gruesome fact of life, but now it's become a damn intramural sport.
O'REILLY: Hold it. I think it was pretty — I think it was pretty white hot on 9/11 when 3,000 people were slaughtered in the streets of this city.
So why don't — what you're doing is you're making a mistake of oversimplifying a very complicated situation.
LETTERMAN: Oh, I'm oversimplifying?
O'REILLY: Yes, you are.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'REILLY: All right. What have we learned?
REIMAN: A couple of things. The first thing is what he's doing is he's giving you his palms, opening up his palms.
O'REILLY: The palms?
REIMAN: That's open gestures. He's saying, "Listen to me. Listen to what I have to say to you. I'm open. I'm giving you myself."
You come back with the finger point...
REIMAN: ... which is saying to him, essentially, "I know what I'm talking about here. You don't." So what does he do?
O'REILLY: But that's true.
REIMAN: He then puts on the smug face, which is a very emotional thing to do, because in essence, what he's just said back to you is, "I give up with you."
O'REILLY: All right. So he just dismisses me as a cretin.
O'REILLY: All right. So...
REIMAN: I wouldn't use such a harsh word. But yes.
O'REILLY: You know, I don't think he likes me at all. I think that was pretty apparent. So there was really nothing gained by that interview.
REIMAN: No, absolutely, not.
O'REILLY: But a lot gained by Oprah?
O'REILLY: Anything gained by Kerry?
REIMAN: Other than the incongruency, nothing.
O'REILLY: And President Bush?
REIMAN: President Bush, the only thing I found, really, was that he was uncomfortable in the situation, trying to make his point, trying to make you feel good about the way he was making his point, and he did that by trying to turn into his body. Where you walked straight, he kind of tried every couple of steps to turn towards you, which is a bonding technique. It's a rapport building technique.
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