Socialism's consequences: Chaos in Venezuela

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This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 2, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hi, I am Greg Gutfeld with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Chris Stirewalt, and she takes a mud buffoon and inkwell, Dana Perino -- "The Five."


Now, if I were a professor, I'd teach a course called Socialism 101, where every student must spend every moment on Venezuela. Their eyes glued to the grim results of policies endorsed by the Bernie Sanders of the world. The class actually is happening right now. But is anyone watching? Not if "Game of Thrones" is on or if President Trump tweets. Those take priority.

It's too bad. For the past decade, we have watched an oil-rich country descend into chaos, where toilet paper is worth more than actual currency and their currency not worth it a crap. It is Socialism 101. A government that controls production and distribution creates scarcity followed by a sham elections, arrests, dictatorship, corpses in the street.

But it never starts out that way. It begins with a left-wing populists and its fan base. Self-absorbed elites portraying a holy hell as a heaven and waiting.

So, where are they now, these Venezuelan fan boys? Sean Penn, Jeremy Corbin, Oliver Stone, Michael Moore -- he's doing a play down the road -- Danny Glover, or the writers at Salon who once labeled Venezuela a miracle. Where are they hiding? Why aren't they saying anything? I guess when you see the starving kids, the dying babies, infant mortality at 30 percent, maternal death up 66 percent, it is hard to show your face. As apologists, they played a role in it. The technical term: useful idiot.

As people die in the celebrities' utopia of the month, the stars inevitably move on, off to find another radical to romance. Funny how this never happens in free markets. Maybe if we killed more people, the stars would love us.

You know, Kimberly, the amazing gift of socialism, it can take the richest thing and destroy it and purify it. I mean, Venezuela, I believe, was one of the -- I guess the fourth richest country, and I look at it.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Well, this is the problem. And you see that it kind of eats itself from the inside out --


GUILFOYLE: -- into total and utter collapse. And you really now see that the fruition of these policies results in a complete dictatorship, and Venezuela, Maduro was able to encompass that. When you think about the incredible oil reserves and economic advantages that this country has, yet so many people are suffering and persecuted, wrongly imprisoned, starving, without basic supplies, of milk for children, or basic necessities to get through the day.


GUILFOYLE: Toilet paper and whatnot. It is just -- it is shocking when you see it. And it is such a perfect, textbook, case example of these failed policies and what they can do to a once productive and thriving country, yet, you see people hunger and thirst, and celebrate this kind of socialism, yet it always leads to the same conclusion.

GUTFELD: You know, Juan? Why do people on your side, the people that I mentioned, always romance radicalism when they know that and every example, it ends poorly.


JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I don't know every example that ends poorly. I think in most. I don't think there's any question. I read today that the average Venezuelan had lost 14 pounds --


WILLIAMS: -- since Maduro took office. I was like, wow! Because there is no food. But here's the thing, here's where I think I have a little different view than yours.


WILLIAMS: You go back to Venezuela, and what Hugo Chavez, who really is the forerunner for Nicholas Maduro now the President, is that there were such tremendous poverty surrounding places like Caracas, which was thriving and based on oil money.


WILLIAMS: And the whole idea, what captured the attention of the left in Hollywood was, oh, here is this little guy struggling against this big American Corporation --

GUTFELD: Castro.

WILLIAMS: And they are trying to impose their will on this Latin country, and all of a sudden, you get people doing things. And Chavez initially helped to reduce the illiteracy rate, improving employment rate in Venezuela, that is when it was working. But then you see big government start to, you know, evolve and the corruption and the excess, and the thievery, outright thievery, especially at state owned enterprises, when the state took over a lot of these oil-based enterprises.

So, that is where it went wrong. I mean, I am a pure capitalist. I live here in the United States. I'm a happy camper. But I am going to tell you something, I understand, and I think and this is what I was going to what I wanted to say to you was, there is a loop here. I think a lot of the people who were angry over wealth and equality are also if you look at it, a lot of people in the trunk base. They say, you know what? I don't like Wall Street too big to fail, I don't like those elites on the coast. I am angry and I want someone to represent me. There is a lot of -- in that sentiment.

GUTFELD: Yes. But I don't know. I think that the people that are pro- Trump are also pro-business, pro-Second Amendment. I don't think you're going to see that happen. Chris, Chavez, Castro, Ortega. The world excuses this behavior because they romance the idea of radicalism. That is how I see it. Agree with me.



CHRIS STIREWALT, CO-HOST: I will try to care what Sean Penn thinks.


STIREWALT: I will labor in the joke.

PERINO: Dig deep.

STIREWALT: I will dig deep to try and care what Sean Penn thinks. Even though, his performance in all the kings men was execrable, and for that he should be forced to live in Caracas.

PERINO: Correct.

STIREWALT: There is a cautionary tale here beyond just the one that you described about what happened as socialism devolves and nationalism supplants good thinking. It is this. They were poorly governed originally because they were rich. They were poorly governed in the same way that the Saudis are poorly governed.


STIREWALT: And other petro nations where they don't have to tax their citizens. They don't need the consent of the governed. They don't have to tax you. In the United States, we hate paying taxes, but that makes us pay attention to what the government is doing to us.

PERINO: Right.

STIREWALT: If you say, don't worry, you don't have to pay taxes, we are taking care of it, things drift off into bad places quickly.

PERINO: Very good point.

GUTFELD: Dana, let's say, you've got a 15-year-old sitting there, and you want to explain to that 15-year-old, how come free markets are immune to this kind of chaos? Why does this only happen in these governments, but for some reason, we're like, well oil machines even though we have our flaws.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: The flaws somehow correct themselves.

PERINO: It's very interesting, in South America in particular gets very little attention. You know, there are, if you pick up the newspaper, unless there is a war, we could be heading there in terms of a civil war.


PERINO: I had lunch with a teacher today who teaches high school students last year. All of her students --

GUTFELD: Did you buy lunch?

PERINO: I did buy launch.

GUTFELD: Very good.

PERINO: She said that they were all for Bernie Sanders.


PERINO: They were all in, they love him. And that she kept saying, what you realizes, what that leads to is something like in Venezuela. What President Trump did this week in terms of the sanction is actually very strong. Maduro is now one of four people in the world that are personally sanctioned. You can sanction countries or companies.


PERINO: So, it is Kim Jong-un.


PERINO: Robert Mugabe. Bashar Assad and now Maduro.

STIREWALT: That's quite a clove.


PERINO: I think that National Review called it, the foursome from hell.


PERINO: And the question I think that, why would you lead with this? One is to teach the lesson of socialism, but also the United States really should care what's happening there because that is just south of our border. If you care about human rights, one, if you care. Two, if you think there is an illegal immigration problem, wait until there is a problem in South America. And then you'll see the attempts to overrun a border. Maybe that's why you have a wall. The drug trade, it will allow us to proliferate. You also have human trafficking, and, not to scare people, but this is true, terrorists try to seek out Jihadist to train in places that are unstable --


PERINO: -- like Venezuela and Marco Rubio says, that is actually actively happening there right now.

GUTFELD: Oh, I can believe it. I mean, that is frightening. Let's go to Mike Pence. He might have something to say about that.



VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE: In recent days, we have seen the completion of Venezuela's collapse in the dictatorship. Not only did the regime hold a sham national assembly election, but on Monday night, the regime seized two prominent members of the opposition. Apollo Lopez and Antonio Ledesma who are being held illegally as we speak.


GUTFELD: You know, Kimberly, this would not be a real five segment if we didn't put some of this blame on President Obama.

GUILFOYLE: I was waiting for that.

GUTFELD: No. The fact is, I mean, he did nothing. I mean, this has been going on for a while. What did he do, other than play golf with his rich elites?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. He shook hands and essentially enabled them by allowing this to proliferate until the eventual demise as well of Venezuela. And when you see socialism like this, it really discourages kind of, you know, individual contribution, to try to create.


GUILFOYLE: Yes. And you just say, okay, you know what? I'm just going to sit here and just enjoy my apathy. I'm just going to sit here and let the government provide for me, because there is no built-in incentive for this society and put the structure to sort of, put itself forward and save itself and also to encourage its, you know, future survival. That is why you see it kind of collapse in and you see the dictatorships, you see people wrongly imprisoned, and just people being shot in the street. People being killed for $5, you know, or even just to buy basic necessities.


WILLIAMS: Well, you know, what's interesting is, now you have 40 countries Greg, that are not recognizing this new assembly. Because the whole election was corrupt and even, the company was formed in Venezuela which monitored and actually provided the computers and said, millions of votes just fraudulent.


WILLIAMS: Just out of control. What you have now is an international coalition saying, you know, we don't like what's going on in Venezuela. The question is, beyond saying a certain Venezuelan potentates can't travel, what do you do? Because if you go after the oil, guess what? Then our two dollars and 31 cents a gallon, prices might go up. This is also at stake in terms of the Russia thing.

We will talk about that later a little bit. But again, that is an important leverage point. Oil. And the question is, does Donald Trump the President and the Vice President -- we just saw, you know what? We are willing to pay this price to fight against people that we think are corrupt.

GUTFELD: I think that's why the natural gas industry -- what we are doing in America is very important right now. The fracking. Trying to become less, you know, dependent on stable countries for their oil.

GUILFOYLE: Do you know how sad this is, you know, France and people that go to Venezuela and have lived there, they say that, you know, I don't want you to be upset Dana, but people are really eating their own pets, they have nothing to eat.


GUILFOYLE: And that is how dire the situation is, maybe people here will care about that.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, maybe they will be upset --

PERINO: Talking about the pets.

GUILFOYLE: About the pets.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: I'm just hoping that the pets are chickens. Because that's okay.

STIREWALT: I don't think so.


GUTFELD: Yes. I don't think so either. You know what though? If I were talking to -- this is the perfect way to teach somebody about economics. The difference between free markets and socialism is, decentralized economies. Like decentralized economy, if something fails, there is something else that succeeds. But if a centralized economy run by a government, if that fails, it is over.

STIREWALT: You better hope you have a pet chicken.

GUTFELD: Yes. I do have a pet chicken.


GUILFOYLE: Leave it there.

GUTFELD: I don't mean it that way.


PERINO: Only the unicorns can --

GUTFELD: Not even true. The Trump administration's new effort to place limits on legal immigration isn't sitting well with the mainstream media. We will show you today's confrontation in the briefing room, next.


PERINO: The Trump administration has taken many steps to keep undocumented immigrants out of the U.S., but has also taken to place new limits on legal immigration. It hopes to establish higher standards for entry that are merit or skill base. Tensions flared at the White House briefing this afternoon when a CNN reporter took issue with the proposal favoring emigrants who speak English.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN: This whole notion of well, they could learn -- you know, they have to learn English before they get to the United States. Are we just going to bring in people from Great Britain or Australia?

STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE POLICY ADVISER: Jim, I have to honestly say, I am shocked at your statement that you think that only people from Great Britain and Australia would know English. It's actually -- it reveals your cosmopolitan bias to a shocking degree that in your mind -- this is an amazing moment. This is an amazing moment that you think only people from Great Britain or Australia would speak English. It is so insulting to millions of hard working immigrants who do speak English from all over the world.

Jim, have you honestly never met an immigrant from another country who speaks English outside of Great Britain or Australia? Is that your personal experience?

ACOSTA: There are of course people who come from other parts of the world.

MILLER: That's not what you're saying and it shows your cosmopolitan bias.


PERINO: We have a new phrase, "cosmopolitan bias." Jim Acosta was actually on CNN later and he had more to say to this.


ACOSTA: Well, I think at times the White House has an unhealthy fixation on what I call the three Ms, the Mexicans, the Muslims, and the media. Their policies tend to be crafted around bashing one of those three groups, and we just see it time and again.


PERINO: All right, Chris. There are times when reporters become the story, and I think, it's almost like Jim Acosta perhaps wants to be a pendant.

STIREWALT: I did not see that. That is dreadful.

PERINO: There you go.

STIREWALT: You can't say that. I mean, look, when you are interviewing a subject -- I have interviewed everybody from white supremacists to run the spectrum. Deplorable disgusting human beings.

GUTFELD: Are you talking about me?


STIREWALT: I never interviewed you. They're sub tweeting you. The truth is, you keep that to yourself, even after the interview, because your impartiality, the reader, the viewer is owed even the pretense of impartiality, even in the presence of moral odium. And the fact that Acosta would go into that, look, life is hard and full of challenges. And Stephen Miller gave him a humiliating tongue lashing that probably he should not have given him. Miller obviously let his pride get the better of him too. But for Acosta to go and say that, stop covering the White House. If you already made up your mind to that degree that these people are so dreadful, then you should find something else to do with your network.

PERINO: What do you think, Juan?

WILLIAMS: I think that you have to challenge power. I think that is the role of the American press. I was listening to Chris carefully, because I think that it is important that reporters not buy into the kind of, you know, whatever, the orthodoxy coming out of any persons, left or right power. But on the other hand, you can't have a situation where you're standing there, and you are advancing your own thoughts and your own agenda, contrary to the one that is coming from the people in power.

The people in power don't deserve to go without being challenged and have the facts showed to them. And, you know, we also saw it today. You know, reporters ask them, just give us the statistics to back up what you're saying, and instead, they go and say, oh well, you know what? Why don't we send low income immigrants to work at the "The New York Times" and take your job, which was not an answer to the question? And it may come off to some people as combative. Why is the reporter engaging with him, well, it seemed to me that Stephen Miller was delighting in securing the press, and saying that press is cosmopolitan elite.

PERINO: They certainly benefit Greg by going after the press. Do you want to comment on the press or the merits of this new --

GUTFELD: I thought for one thing in defense of Miller, he made a really great point. When Acosta implied strongly that any reduction in flow was against our core beliefs, then the question is, so there is never such a thing as enough. You can have five million, 10 million. I thought there was a great point. But I think in terms of the actual specifics of what they are introducing, what is wrong with having people learn a language. How dare you demand something that helps them?

You're actually saying, we want you to do well. In a strange way, we are asking immigrants to compete amongst themselves. It's like, we are actually inviting competition and wanting you to come over here and kick our butts. Come over here, better prepared. You know, you want to make money, you know that if you know the language, you're going to make more money. You're going to get better jobs.

We want you to come here and be better. The other thing, as if it does cut immigration in half or the increases in half, shifting from low to high skilled workers, maybe citizens that don't leave might resolve to fix the problems in their own country. So that maybe in the future, your children and their children don't have to leave the country, because a lot of people are leaving horrible countries. And maybe, maybe stay and fix the damn place.

PERINO: Kimberly, there are a lot of competing economic theories about this. There are lots of economists who say, actually legal immigration helps grow the economy, the White House is saying, actually it is holding back wages, and this bill is entitled the raise act, because the goal is to raise wages. But yet, it looks like it doesn't have a hope of passing in the Congress this year.

GUILFOYLE: No. So, it is sort of a great idea with nowhere to go. It's what ultimately, if they were behind it, they think it would actually increase wages and improve the economy, which would be something positive for the President. But obviously, this is a very difficult topic, where there has really been a history of lack of consensus or achievement in terms of getting some policies for the actually work that you can get people to have bipartisan support.

And today is a perfect example of it. And I think why Steve Miller, you know, took exception to this is because of the constant barrage by the mainstream media to suggest that anyone who wants to secure the borders or build a wall or have proper screening from countries that have an influx of people coming in that aren't properly screened and do what we call travel ban, is you know, a bigot or a racist or something like that.

They accuse the President of that. And he sort of saw the vitriol with which Jim Acosta approached it. So, this is what we are dealing with now any time this subject matter, you know, comes up, and it is frustrating because it doesn't get anywhere.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say before we go. But this ends this whole argument Kimberly that somehow this is just about illegal immigrants. Because here you have a policy now on the table that will cut legal immigration in half.

PERINO: Right. Right.

GUTFELD: I agree with you for once.

PERINO: All right. All right.

GUILFOYLE: That is the fact.

PERINO: All right. "The New York Times" said, the Justice Department could be preparing to sue some of America's colleges over there, affirmative action policy. But the Department of Justice fired back as it reported today. We will have those details, next.


GUILFOYLE: Two stories developing out of Washington today. "The New York Times" put out a report that the Trump administration could be targeting affirmative action policies on campus, but the Justice Department says the paper got the story wrong. Also today, President Trump signed a bill to impose new sanctions on Russia, but he wasn't happy about it.

Ed Henry has all the details. Good evening, Ed.

ED HENRY, FOX NEWS: Kimberly, good to see you. Dare I say this administer ration is going to call it fake news by "The New York Times" that discrimination story that you mentioned. Basically it all started simply with a job ad over at the Justice Department, basically a help wanted ad. Saying they wanted to hire more lawyers to deal with a new project that was going to be investigating discrimination in the college admissions process.

"The New York Times" got a copy of that help wanted ad, and then extrapolated out and they are reporting, that somehow this was going to be President Trump investigating claims that there is anti-white bias in the admissions process of colleges and universities. This, as you can imagine, ignited a firestorm. Democrats including former President Obama's education secretary John King rushed out to say he was deeply disheartened by a move that he claimed would hurt African-American and Hispanic students.

One big problem. The job ad for lawyers to work for Attorney General Jeff Sessions did not refer to anti-white bias at all. Sarah Huckabee Sanders at the White House podium said in fact they would be investigating potential biased against all races, not specifically against whites. And then this evening, the Justice Department came out and in much stronger terms denied the story, saying in fact that the lawyers were being hired specifically to Justice Department to investigate complaints filed by Asian American groups, who alleged back in 2015 that there was discrimination at Harvard in their admissions process.

Interesting, because this case was first brought to the attention, yes, of the Obama administration in 2015, they did not finish it by the time they left office this past January. So, now the administration is looking at that. Then move onto the Russia story. We have heard this narrative time and time again that President Trump is too close to President Putin in Russia. And there were reports in recent days that he would not sign into law this bill that was just passed through both houses of Congress, instituting new sanctions against Russia, and making it harder for President Trump to wipe away any sanctions against Russia.

Well, today, the President signed that into law. He did say that he had some problems with the law, that he believes there are some unconstitutional provisions in there, but he signed it, despite all of the claims that he would not. And then the Prime Minister of Russia today, Dmitri Medvedev charged that President Trump was humiliated and that he signed this only because there were overwhelming majorities in the House and Senate that would have overwritten any veto.

He went on to say that this could spark a trade war between the U.S. and Russia and that any hope of warmer relations between the U.S. and Russia are now gone because of President Trump signing this into law. Again, a little bit different than the narrative we have heard in recent days.

GUILFOYLE: All right, thank you so much for the update, Ed, to get around the table Dana, your thoughts on two topics here?

PERINO: Before I was curious if "The New York Times" asked the Justice Department for reaction and they just did not get a call back. I worked at the Justice Department as a spokesperson for a year, and I just know that, sometimes, getting an answer from lawyers takes a lot longer than you would like as a P.R. Person. So it, it is frustrating. Maybe all of this could have been contained and avoided.

GUILFOYLE: Avoided, right. You think perhaps that might have been --

PERINO: Maybe, I don't know. But I could also understand how this could get out of control pretty quickly, but you see that it took the Justice Department almost an entire day to say, no actually it is about the lawsuit from the Asian American students that was filed in 2015, which is a very interesting case, and something that the Obama administration sort of left on the table. I do think it is something that should be reviewed.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, absolutely. To make sure the communications and information is there at the ready.

STIREWALT: This is true. I wonder what would be wrong with looking at bias against white students. That would be ok. I found this weird, that this would be an appalling thing. If there is bias, we shouldn't investigate bias wherever it is. That is fine if you have the civil right division, and then have a civil right division for all of the humans, that are good. And then the response from the administration, no! It wasn't on the behalf of white students, we are so vindicated! I found it all to be very telling and odd moment.


WILLIAMS: I think there's a reason, Chris. I think we live in a white majority society, where most college students are white. If you look at the population, I think it is like more than a third of people over 25 who are white have a college degree, but if you look at blacks, it is less than a quarter, and Hispanics, less than a fifth. You see there is a disparity. We worry about a stable American society, and I think that is why colleges have been quite intentional saying, we would like to increase diversity on campuses.

What you see from the Supreme Court, with Sandra Day O'Connor back in 2003, and more lately last year of 2015 just as Kennedy being the deciding vote, is to say race can be one factor, but it can't be the exclusive and only factor. So all of a sudden, you see the Justice Department, and what was alarming to me was to see the civil rights division now involved in this, because I don't see that there is any outright discrimination against white people in colleges. But I think that they are not sin, we were worried about the fact that so many Asian students have extraordinarily high grades, but they are held to a different standard than whites, black, Latinos, anybody.

And so they say, you are unfairly treating the Asian students. And then in places especially out west, where you come from Kimberly, they say, we can fill the whole place up with these high-flying academic top grade SAT, SAT Asian students, but we are trying to have a whole campus that represents the entire community that pays taxes to this institution. So, I think it would be legit. I thought, by the way, the excuse from the administration, I would look on Asia that was of the year. I mean it is about white students.

GUILFOYLE: The term you are using now, ok Greg?

GUTFELD: I thought the affirmative action story was a big fat zero. It was a job posting. They found a job posting and they made a mountain out of a microbe, it was born out of the hysterical reaction to anything that is coming out of the Trump administration. They see this, they go, evidence of the Jim Acosta mindset. It is all about race and everything else. I have to question whether -- do we really need to push for an increase in diversity anymore when it is now a preset assumption. When you look at recruitment ads for anything, people are dying for diversity. If you talk to anybody in H.R., they are desperate for people. If you talk to anybody in recruiting, campuses, the military, and the hunger for diversity as they are, whether you need affirmative action anymore, I am not so sure, because I think that people -- and it's already there. People are trying. They can't get enough.

The problem with affirmative action, which, Clarence Thomas has talked about this, it casts doubt on your achievements. Everyone assumes you have two like us. So people regret that this is actually a bad thing. Also it pushes people to fast in a situation that they may not be ready for. I remember reading about this constantly where people get into college, and then they get lousy grades and they drop out, because they weren't ready you have to be there.

GUILFOYLE: Because they weren't set up for success.

PERINO: Actually, I have a part of the solution to that, it is not college, and it is K-12 education.

STIREWALT: That is right.

GUILFOYLE: That needs to improve, right Juan?

WILLIAMS: I would agree with you, I would also say good families, and upper income families, they got to take the kid on vacation, like that.

GUTFELD: What about the Russians?

GUILFOYLE: We don't have time. All right another climate dozy from Al Gore ahead. Stay tuned for this one, because we will be back in a moment.


WILLIAMS: Former Vice President Al Gore always finds a way to get into the headlines while warning the world about, you guess it, global warming. Well, he has done it again. His latest comparison of his fight is to the fight for civil rights.


AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: When I was a boy growing up a lot of time in the south, I remember when the civil rights movement was gaining momentum that I will tell you, the resistance to civil rights laws was just as fierce, if not more so than the resistance to solving the climate crisis. But ultimately, we crossed a political tipping point, and people realize it is just a question of right and wrong.


WILLIAMS: Greg, you say it's a moral issue, not only that, it is a fight against apartheid. It is a fight against women who have been unfairly subjugated by men. It is a moral issue says Al Gore.

GUTFELD: He is a moron. Anyway, the biggest harm to the climate change agenda is not skeptics, it is zealots. Because Zealots ruin everything, like there are people that who would be moderately interested in what's going on out there, if it wasn't for the Chicken Little mentality zealots, like what's his face. It is like a grateful dead head. Who makes you hate the band, because all they talk about are the concerts and how Jerry Garcia plays a 12 minute solo and fire in the mountain and how amazing it is. And you go I don't want to hear about Grateful Dead anymore. That is what happens. He ruined the climate change argument, because there is stuff to talk about, whether it is man-made or not, there's a lot of dispute. There's a lot of dispute everywhere, but there is something happening, and we should talk about it, but he has ruined it. He has basically peed in the pool of debate. And he is a big.


WILLIAMS: Oh my goodness. I want out. I think it is getting warmer in here.


GUTFELD: That would happen.

WILLIAMS: It is sounds like (inaudible).

GUILFOYLE: Stirewalt.

WILLIAMS: But you know what, Dana, somebody at this event, who is from the Chesapeake Bay area, said Mr. Vice President I don't see any rising tide around here and he had a difficult time dealing with that.

PERINO: Right, because a lot of the things that they said were going to happen have not happened at least maybe uniformly around the world. Different places see different things depending on what is happening. I think that the EPA administrator had an excellent idea, which is to do a televised Lincoln-Douglas style debate on climate change. We run it live, and both sides -- I like them too. Greg and I like watching us. I think that would be a way to actually get people on the same page. Get the zealots off, and get responsible people on both sides of the issue to debate out.

WILLIAMS: Let me ask you Chris, do you think anyone would say, they are right, they persuaded me.

PERINO: Maybe that is what they do in these debates and you vote.

STIREWALT: The soul of the problem here, the absolute beating heart is this. We are talking about gradient differences in policies that are sold in existential apocalyptic terms. There is nothing that was in the Paris climate accord that was going to change the history of mankind for all time. Instead of talking about things like we would other issues, economic issues like taxes and other things, we talk about it in these existential dead polar bear terms, and as a consequent, it turns away from what it really is, and economic issue, it becomes a social issue. We all know when it becomes a social issue, people turn their brains off, and they deal with their hearts, and that is not sufficient for an issue like this.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I wonder Kimberly I just put the same question to you. If someone had a debate and the facts on the table, is anybody going to change their minds at this point?

GUILFOYLE: I think that people might, people who want to be open-minded. To pick up on what Greg is saying, the zealots, they are so prone to hyperbole and exaggeration, that it sort of defeats honest discussion and analysis of the facts. So, that is basically the problem I have with it. I feel like I'm watching Groundhog Day when I see Al Gore and he is going to be like, here he goes again.

GUTFELD: He does look like a Groundhog.

GUILFOYLE: Mar-a-Lago will still be there, it was supposed to be gone, but you want to hear the facts, you want to debate it, but when people are as close-minded as to one direction or the other, there is just too big of a space in between to try and bridge it.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I think Al Gore might be engage in some hyperbole. I just think the facts, Greg and I disagree, but I let you decide.

GUILFOYLE: But at least you get to talk about it.

WILLIAMS: We do talk.

GUTFELD: Over breakfast.


WILLIAMS: Since President Trump defeated Hillary Clinton in the Electoral College, so why is he still talking about her so much? Her former campaign chair has a theory. That is next.


STIREWALT: We thought the election of 2016 would never end. Oh lord, oh lord. For Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager, John Podesta, you know him, it apparently he never did. He says, President Trump, is still stuck in 2016 too.


JOHN PODESTA, CLINTON'S CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: I think it really just bugs the hell out of him that she got 3 million more votes than he did, and he keeps coming back to that. Obviously, you know we bear the burden of having lost the Electoral College. So, you know I do think about that every night, but I do think that he is partly strategic to try and deflect attention from his problems, but I think he is really under her - she is really under his skin.


STIREWALT: Greg Gutfeld?


STIREWALT: It is helpful, whether or not, I am going to leave the psychology out of it, where he is thinking this, or he is obsessed about that. It is helpful at least to a degree for Donald Trump to remind his voters and supporters, remember why you voted for me. We see these numbers, voters are feeling a little crabby, there is more discontent out there, but if you bring it back to 2016, there is some utility in this, because you say, would you rather Hillary Clinton be President today?

GUTFELD: I wake up every morning and asked myself the question. And I throw up.


GUILFOYLE: Accurate.

GUTFELD: I have to use a sports analogy. They always talk about how (inaudible) let's take the Super Bowl, the Raiders beat the Broncos, 25 to 21, but the Broncos had more yards. So what, I have the super bowl ring.

GUILFOYLE: It doesn't matter.

STIREWALT: But Kimberly, I think it bothers the President. There is a little botherment there, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, half of men are.


GUTFELD: This is America! We did a whole thing on immigration, but now we are hypocrites.

STIREWALT: But it bugs him right?

GUILFOYLE: I think it does. He is transparent about it. This is still a constant dialogue. I will probably be a little irritated too, to be honest, because he won the election, and you think enough already. There is constantly there's sort of like rehashing it. The efforts to delegitimize the presidency, but you have to then rise above that, it's not distracting. And it should kind of like engaged in this little like hamster wheel all the time.

STIREWALT: Juan, when I think of the person who has harmed the Democratic Party the most in the past generation, Hillary Clinton stands out head and shoulders above the rest.

GUILFOYLE: She is the winner.

STIREWALT: And I am constantly amazed that she continues to inflict herself on a Democratic Party that she should have - Mitt Romney, do you remember the moment when Mitt Romney said, I am taking about running again, and Republican said don't do it and he backed away. He moved away from that space. Hillary Clinton has a book out, she is still engaged, and her campaign chairman is out selling these talking points. Is there a certain point where the Clintons will stop inflicting themselves on Democrats and let them move on to a new generation?

WILLIAMS: I think it's really important. It's like the forest. You know the big trees have to fall so the little trees can grow. I disagree with you that she or Bill Clinton has imposed the most damage on the Democratic Party.

GUTFELD: It's Chelsea.


WILLIAMS: I think that people, if you look at everything from fundraising to name I.D. Bill Clinton's I think his numbers are higher than --

STIREWALT: I got to ask Dana one more question. Do you know anyone who lost more popular votes in the presidential election?

PERINO: Yes of course.

STIREWALT: Who is that guy?


PERINO: I do think that it is better than Hillary works really well, but I would advise them if they're going to continue using it, to move on talking about Hillary Clinton's and scandals. Talk about Hillary Clinton's policy and better on Hillary on policy is a better footing for winning some of these debates.

GUTFELD: She needs better footing.


STIREWALT: "One more thing" is up next.


GUTFELD: It's time for "One more thing." I will start it off. Check out my podcast with Dr. Michael. We got a Fox News We talk about the future of death. Probably world's most famous medical examiner, we talked about really cool stuff. Trust me it will blow your mind, now this. Slow news day. In today's slow news day, we visit a parent and a cat. Very interesting arrangement here, they don't really get along too well. Because it is slow news day, let's show it again in slow motion, because that is why it is slow news. It's beautiful. All right Dana.

PERINO: All right, seven priests walking into a bar. This isn't a joke though. This is in Wales. They walk into a bar, and they were turn away, because the bar staff thought they were out to do a fancy dress Party, like a stag thing. They said, sorry we don't do that here, you are not allowed in. No really we are priest and finally, it all got resolved, they got them a round of beer, they said some prayers.

STIREWALT: Very nice.

WILLIAMS: How did that story come to your attention?

PERINO: Emily said it was her favorite One more thing of the day.

WILLIAMS: And out of this world job has just opened at NASA, and it sounds like something out of men in black. It is a real job listing, and it pays a lot of money. NASA is looking to hire a planetary protection officer. The job description is "protecting space from biological contamination and protecting earth biosphere from alien life." So, basically, fighting off aliens and fighting killer bug's diseases that come from aliens. Wow.

PERINO: I think my "One more thing" was better than that.

GUTFELD: Always about the aliens.


GUILFOYLE: We have some terrific news. Some of you may have heard about it, but my good friend Sean Hannity is executive producing a fantastic new film called "Let there be light." With actor and producer Kevin Sorbo, we have a clip of it that we would like to show you.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are the only one who can say there is no bear there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Went someone almost dies they are seeing their imagination quite literally running wild.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, I saw something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why do you say so?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a glimpse of the light.


GUILFOYLE: The film is about an atheist who has a near death experience, and that experience produces a change in his opinion about life and death, and faith and family. It is terrific, we are proud of Sean Hannity. It will be released on October 27th.

STIREWALT: I am so grateful for your hospitality here in the past two days. Thanks you very much for having me. But even so I'm going to force this upon you even so. On this day, that Calvin Coolidge opted not to run for a second full term in office, he had won a landslide victory, he was a shoe in, and he said he that he was done. And he said I believe I can best serve the people in that way I believe I can best serve the people who had honored me and the country I served.

GUTFELD: Set your DVR and never miss an episode of "The Five." "Hannity" is up next.

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