Shooting at Wisconsin mall wounds 8; suspect still at large

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Shooting at Wisconsin mall wounds 8; suspect still at large

Mike Tobin reports on the latest from the Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, Wis. on 'The Story'

This is a rush transcript from “The Story with Martha MacCallum" November 20, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Happy Thanksgiving, John. Great to see
you tonight. And good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum and this is
The Story for a Friday.

Republican Michigan State Senator Mike Shirkey is one of several top GOP
leaders in Michigan. Today, he was at the center of one of the hottest
political battles in the country. This morning, he woke up, he put on his
mask. He went to the airport to go visit President Trump in the midst of
this fierce battle over the presidential election in his state. And here's
what happened here.

(VIDEO PLAYING)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shame on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did Trump promise you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is the evidence of fraud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Certify the results.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certify the results.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, when pressed by a reporter over whether he would seek to
overturn the electors if the canvass board deadlocks, Shirkey deflected and
then sang a hymn about time surrendering and clinging to the old, rugged
cross. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE SHIRKEY (R-MI): Time has surrender and there's no more, I will
cling to the old (inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, like so many states, Michigan is up against the deadline now
to certify the election. And the president claims that voter fraud should
force a different outcome there. You remember this when two Republican
canvassers, Monica Palmer and William Hartmann, denied the certification in
Wayne County based on out of balance vote tallies. They were then verbally
abused, and they were called racists in a public forum on Zoom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope that both of you go home tonight and read up on
systemic racism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shame on you. Shame on you for leading to this level of
corruption.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You all should be ashamed of yourselves and know that
what you are doing here today is on the wrong side of history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your cult followers doing whatever your cult leader
tells you to do. Why don't you have any shame? Because you're not smart
enough to realize you're in a cult.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Trump stink. The stain of racism that you William
Hartmann and Monica Palmer have just covered yourself in is going to follow
you throughout history. Monica Palmer and William Hartmann will forever be
known in southeastern Michigan as two racist and Lord knows, when you go to
meet your maker, your soul is going to be very, very warm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Brutal treatment that they received. So, what exactly was
discussed behind closed doors at the White House today? This meeting got a
lot of attention. The Michigan lawmaker stated just a short time ago that
they spoke to the president about a number of things, including COVID
relief for the state of Michigan. They said they haven't seen anything that
would lead to a change in the outcome of the election and that they will
follow the law. Now, word that the president has wanting to meet with
Pennsylvania GOP leaders, as well as he insists that he won the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The campaign which I
won, by the way, but we'll find that out, almost 74 million votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So that is President-elect Biden slammed the president for
inviting those Michigan lawmakers to the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be another
incident where he will go down in history as being one of the most
irresponsible presidents in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: We begin tonight with Monica Palmer, Republican member of the
Wayne County Board of Canvassers in Michigan. She's the person that all of
those individuals were yelling at on the Zoom meeting. Monica, thank you
very much for being here tonight. So why did you and Mr. Hartmann decide to
vote no? What bothered you about the vote tallies?

MONICA PALMER, WAYNE COUNTY BOARD OF CANVASSERS: Well, in the primary, we
had a problem with 72 percent on the absentee counting board being out of
balance, unexplained, and we had broad bipartisan support to get a
resolution up to the state to have an investigation done and have the
Secretary of State come into Detroit and help fix processes. At that point,
it was outrageous.

We had leaders at the local level and leaders at the state level just very
frustrated with the results of not having things explained. And those
precincts and absentee county boards being unaccountable. We had a repeat
in the general election when the executive summary of the plus minus report
indicating which precincts were in balance and out of balance, over 70
percent of the absentee counting boards in Detroit were out of balance,
unexplained, which means they're not re-countable.

In addition, there were several other communities that were out of balance,
unexplained, including Lavonia. And in a canvass, you're supposed to make
sure that you have every valid vote counted for and not counting any
invalid votes and that the total of the ballots issued matched the total of
ballots totaled on election night.

And if there's a discrepancy, there needs to be an explanation. So that
lack of explanations means that it's not complete and accurate
documentation. And that is why we voted no, because it's the job of the
canvass to make sure that that documentation is complete and accurate. And
without that, we couldn't certify.

MACCALLUM: In more than 70 percent of the counties with the absentee
ballots, the number that were requested and the number that you received
were different. Tell me if I'm getting this wrong here. But there were more
ballots that you got in than were requested, is that correct?

PALMER: Close. There were more ballots counted in the tabulator than there
were shown as received ballots in the poll book.

MACCALLUM: Got it. I mean, that that's obviously a situation that would
make anybody uncomfortable in your position where it's your responsibility
to sign off on it all being well accounted for and understandable and
making sense. So, then you have the situation where you vote no and then
under this enormous pressure, you change your vote to yes, you and Mr.
Hartmann. So, now there's an attorney as of this evening in Michigan who
says that you cannot, a board attorney, you are not allowed to change your
mind again. What's your response to that?

PALMER: My response to that is, is that we - on the second motion, a deal
was made between Vice Chair Jonathan Kinloch and myself. He promised me
that there would be an audit and that he had guarantees from higher level
that audit would take place. And that is the only reason that I voted yes
for that certification, because a comprehensive independent audit should be
able to answer those unanswered questions, which would fulfill the
requirements of the canvas. Moments after the vote was done, Secretary
Benson came on TV and said that the resolution was non-binding and that she
didn't have to perform the audit.

MACCALLUM: And he said - here's Mr. Kinloch, the person that assured you,
look, just vote yes and I promise you, we're going to do an audit. We're
going to fix all these problems. Here's what he says now about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN KINLOCH, WAYNE COUNTY BOARD OF CANVASSERS: I said I called the
governor, the secretary of state and the director of the Department of
Elections, and I was not able to reach them. She knew that we could not
demand the secretary of state to conduct an audit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So that doesn't match up with what he told you?

PALMER: Not at all.

MACCALLUM: So, is he lying?

PALMER: Either he lied to me or he's lying now, I'm not sure which it is.

MACCALLUM: Here's what Governor Whitmer, she wants you guys to get this
process done and over with, and here's what she's saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): The will of the people will be done and these
efforts to disenfranchise Wayne County and majority where the majority of
our African American voters live, is just a blatant attempt to steal the
election result and disenfranchise Michigan voters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Are you trying to steal the election, the voting process from
African Americans in Wayne County, Monica?

PALMER: Absolutely not. By voting no on the certification doesn't take a
vote away from anyone. What it does is allows the state to have 10
additional days with a state board of canvassers to continue asking
questions to get answers to those unexplained imbalances.

MACCALLUM: So, now you've got - what's your reaction to this Washington
visit today by the two top legislators in the GOP side on the state
government in Michigan, you saw how outraged some of those people were.

PALMER: The outrage is something that I'm recently very familiar with so I
can empathize with them on that. As far as the timing of things, I'm not
privy to what was going on in those conversations, so I can't comment.

MACCALLUM: And the president called you, so there's some out there who look
at that, right? They look at this meeting at the White House and they look
at the president calling you and they say, he's trying to work these
people. He's trying to change the outcome in Michigan, which is 154,000
votes apart. What would you say to that?

PALMER: I would say that that's not the case. The president called to thank
me for my service as a public servant on the canvassing board. And more
importantly, to check to make sure that I was safe because he had heard
about the threats that were being made in a public meeting. And I really
appreciate him taking time out of his very, very busy schedule to do that.
It meant a lot.

MACCALLUM: Monica Palmer, thank you very much. We're all watching this
across the country very closely as it unfolds. And you stood your ground,
and we'll see where this goes. Monica, thank you for being here tonight.

PALMER: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, moments ago, the police chief in Wisconsin provided an
update after multiple people were shot inside a mall. Our reporter has just
arrived on the scene and we will take you there live in moments.

Also coming up, Victor Davis Hanson and Marc Thiessen on President Trump's
huddle with those Michigan lawmakers and their take on where the president
should go next with all of this, especially if he has an eye to 2024.
That's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The campaign which I won, by the way, but we'll find that out,
almost 74 million votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM: President under pressure from some Republican lawmakers to move
on while his supporters are angered that the GOP is not backing his fight.
Joining me now, Victor Davis Hanson, Senior Fellow at the Hoover
Institution, and Marc Thiessen, American Enterprise Institute Scholar and
Fox News Contributor. Gentlemen, good to have both of you with us this
evening.

Marc, you, and I spoke earlier today, and you have laid out some very
specific points that you think the president should do now. Have you shared
those with the White House? And what would you tell them tonight if you
were listening to?

MARC THIESSEN, FORMER CHIEF SPEECHWRITER, PRES GWB: Well, I published them
in The Washington Post, and I sent them to the president, and he's received
them. So, he knows what my recommendations are. I mean, my advice to him is
there is a path to a second term. It's called the 2024 elections that he
has in as we talked about this morning, he's the first president in 132
years since Grover Cleveland, who has a realistic chance of reclaiming the
presidency after having lost it four years earlier.

But in order to do that, he needs to pivot and start focusing on the next
election instead of this one. And he also needs to understand the reason he
lost. It's not because of voter fraud. He lost because millions of
Americans who support his policies remember before the election, 56 percent
of Americans said I'm better off now than they were four years ago, but a
lot of the millions of those people didn't vote for him. Why is that?
Because they were exhausted by the chaos. And the chaos isn't all Donald
Trump's fault, but he contributes to it.

And then when you have him inviting Michigan legislators to talk about the
possibility of having them - have different electors and changing the
election result, he lost Michigan by 156,000 votes, not 156 votes, not 1560
votes, a 156,000. So, if the Democrats were - if the roles were reversed
and the Democrats were doing it, we'd be outraged.

So, what he's doing by the - and then having Rudy Giuliani going out and
alleging a plot involving Cuba, China, Venezuela, George Soros and, you
know, Dr. Evil from Austin Powers, practically, that makes these voters
think I made the right decision and he's going to lose them permanently and
it's going to be impossible for him to win back the presidency. So, he
needs to pivot away from this and focus on the next election.

MACCALLUM: This is what Eric Holder said today about all of this, the
former attorney general, and then I want to get, Victor, your thoughts on
this. He said this is a period of maximum danger for our democracy.
Tampering with county officials and inviting state legislators to the White
House to discuss a plot to reverse the results of a free and fair election
is the behavior of a foreign autocrat, not an American president.

And yet, Victor, as I mentioned, there are all of these Trump supporters
out there who are really angry that they're not seeing Republican
leadership support for the president on these voting issues. Where do you
stand?

VICTOR DAVIS HANSON, SENIOR FELLOW, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Well, they're not
paranoid or stupid, I think everybody Martha, they can agree that because
of the lockdown and COVID and the pandemic, that there was a rush to have a
preponderance of mail in balloting and early voting and computer systems
that weren't fairly or fully authenticated in some cases. And the result is
that there was a lot of upset voters and there were state legislatures who
have - they have the constitutional prerogative alone to set the rules. And
some of the rules were put aside. Everybody agreed on that.

So, it was perfectly legitimate for two weeks to adjudicate these to the
courts and to sound it out in the media and back and forth. But the
question was always was this of a magnitude, not whether the irregularities
existed, but were they have a magnitude to alter 20,000 votes very close in
Wisconsin or Georgia, 12 or so or 14 in Arizona.

And I think that was working through, it had been two and a half weeks. We
had three and a half weeks until the electors met. But then things changed
when a lot of people freelance, when they came in and changed the dialogue
and they said, no, no, it wasn't just fraud here. And it wasn't just a
close count here. And it's not just one state here. It's a multi-million
vote, coordinated conspiracy. And it's - if that were to be true, would be
the biggest scandal in American history, more than the 1824, the 1876
election. So immediately everybody said, oh, my gosh, we can't even
comprehend the magnitude of what you're accusing on TV.

So, we thought there would be analytics and data and forensics and maybe
they will come. But so far, they haven't come. And so that is I think Marc
is correct on that. That's changing what had been a measured and reasonable
response and now it's chaos.

And now we go into the political rather than the legal very quickly.
There's an election coming up in Georgia, and that's a purple state now.
And Donald Trump's legacy is on the line because if they win the Senate,
they, being the Democrats, it's not just going to be one part of Congress.
It's going to be the House. It's going to be the Senate. It's going to be
the presidency. No filibuster and maybe even a packed liberal court.

So, there's a lot of stakes there. And Donald Trump alone can get that base
fired up and go to Georgia and unite the party. But he can't do it if all
these people are making charges that they can't substantiate within 24 or
48 hours.

So, I think Mark is on - I think he's right in general on what he's saying.
But I would have a little bit more sympathy because there were
irregularities either way, the overrides of state legislatures and they
were trying to find out whether that was going to alter the election. Now,
it's changed, I think we should--

MACCALLUM: Just a quick moment to close up here, Marc, your response?

THIESSEN: Just simply, I agree with Victor and I'm very sympathetic to the
president. I want him to have a second term. But he's got to focus on 2024.

MACCALLUM: All right, thank you, gentlemen. Great to see you both tonight.
Thanks for being here.

THIESSEN: Thank you.

HANSON: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, as we mentioned at the top of the show, there are reports
tonight of multiple people injured following an active shooter incident at
Mayfair Mall in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin, which is just outside of Milwaukee.
The police chief confirmed moments ago that the suspect is still at large.
Senior Correspondent Mike Tobin has just arrived on the scene. Mike, can
you hear me there? OK, what's going on there, Mike?

MIKE TOBIN, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: I can hear you, Martha. And the one thing
that the chief pointed to and saying that the shooter is still at large,
they can't necessarily say that he's not still in the mall. He could quite
possibly be hiding in the mall. When the authorities arrived at the scene.
It wasn't necessarily an active scene. I mean, there was an exchange of
gunfire. The shooter was just apparently gone.

But there was a shooting at - the shots rang out at 250 just before 3
o'clock local time with Central Time here with the authorities responding.
The one thing that Chief Barry Weber pointed to, though. The good news is
that there were no fatalities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARRY WEBER, POLICE CHIEF, WAUWATOSA: Seven injured adults and one injured
teenager were transported to the hospital by Wauwatosa Fire Department. The
extent of their injuries is unknown at this time. Everybody was alive at
that time, though, so there's not been any fatalities that I'm aware of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOBIN: Witness working at the food court describes the chaos when the shots
first started ringing out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the gunshots one after another, and then I heard
my manager run back and, you know, him and the other lady said, there's a
shooting, we need to go out here right now. Yes, luckily, we all got off
safely. Nobody's hurt. But, yes, it's just chaos. Terrifying, very scary.
And I've never experienced anything like this before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TOBIN: Now, the chief described the shooter as a white male in his 20s and
30s and seemed to emphasize any early information that is identifying the
shooter is wrong. They don't know who he is. Martha.

MACCALLUM: Mike Tobin, we'll stay on it with your help out there. Thank you
very much. So, coming up here tonight, Dr. Marty Makary with new data that
suggests that schools are very safe to stay open. And a public-school
teacher who says that California leaders are acting - are making people
into government hostages and that children are the victims. They're up
next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open high schools.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've got the PPE and we've got the ventilation and
we've got the testing. For one since March, our kids were able to go to
school every day, get a little bit of life back, get their friends back and
get their learning back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: Outraged parents sending a message to New York City Mayor Bill
de Blasio to argue that schools are safe, that they're essential and that
they need to remain open. And now this new study has been published by my
next guest at Johns Hopkin's School of Medicine. Among patients with no
comorbidities, the youngest age group, zero to 18 had a zero percent
mortality rate. Take a good look at this chart. So basically, everyone
under 70 has a less than one percent death rate. But as you know, in terms
of the schools, some of the union leaders are unconvinced by the data that
you see before you. Here is AFT President last night, Randi Weingarten.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI WEINGARTEN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS: Schools are
not impervious to all that is going on in the outside.

MACCALLUM: The transmission rate is very, very low. These experts and
scientists say the children are safer in school. It's worked across Europe.
It's worked across the U.K.

WEINGARTEN: Well, the --

MACCALLUM: They never closed their schools during second spike and now they
are in recovery, they are down 10 percent.

WEINGARTEN: They've been trying to get kids back into school throughout the
country and we worked with New York City to do it. But we have to get
community spread down now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACCALLUM (on camera): Dr. Marty Makary joins me now, professor of health
policy and management at Johns Hopkins and Fox News medical contributor.
Dr. Makary, good to have you with us.

This is an interesting study. What really stood out to you from this data?

MARTY MAKARY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, good evening, Martha. You know,
one question that we have never been able to answer with good data up until
this point is what about people who are completely healthy who have no pre-
existing conditions, no co-morbidities? What is their risk?

Because most of the data has been lumped together, including those at high
risk and those at low risk. And it turns out from the analysis we did in
half of the nation's health insurance data set, no child under age 18 has
been found to die of COVID to date that has had no pre-existing condition.

That is, we presume now that if not all, nearly all of the 169 deaths in
children under age 20 to date during the pandemic in the United States were
among kids with a pre-existing condition. So, this data has implications
for what we do, for how we interact. For how we do our schools and to
protect those who are vulnerable. We know now that it's those with pre-
existing conditions. Those are the kids where we may need to take extra
medication.

MACCALLUM: Yes, absolutely. So, you know in that category you need to stay
at home, absolutely, to prevent any risk and the same goes with the
teachers. If they fall into that category, they should be given a way to
still continue to teach from home.

You know, this obviously that there is good news in these numbers when you
look at them, doctor. But the other numbers that are surrounding us right
now are pretty scary. We are now at 1,300 deaths a day. It's the highest
rate that we have seen since May. And I think that a lot of people thought
that at the end of the summer this was tapering off. It's clearly not.

MAKARY: Well, we are bringing a lot of infection into this resurgence into
the fall and winter and even though we are doing a lot better as doctors in
preserving life. We are taking a lot of infection in. So that's why we have
had a death rate of 1,300 deaths per day on average over the last week.

But you know, the question about transmission is the primary question in
schools. And in a study of 35,000 kids in North Carolina, there is not a
single case of transmission from child to adult out of 100 infections.
Insight for education studied 191 countries looking at the countries that
reopened and found that it did not drive the pandemic or outbreaks any
further.

And Utah, which has the best data on schools found that any increases or
outbreaks were attributed to teens and that infection was on off campus
congregant settings namely the parties not the classrooms. So, it's pretty
clear the classroom is extremely safe and the transmission from kids to
adults is minimal.

MACCALLUM: So why do you think that's not a message that's getting through
the leadership at these unions, the teacher's unions or in some of our big
cities like New York.

MAKARY: Well, I think the thought is we cannot tolerate a single
transmission or infection, then I think it's there is no way to really have
a rational conversation. But if we look at the policies that we do for
viral meningitis, bacterial pneumonia, seasonal flu, it turns out that
death from COVID is below those things.

And if we look at those who are healthy, more kids die from jelly fish than
from COVID who are completely healthy. More kids die from eating a
toothpick. More kids die from middle school football than from COVID. So, I
think we need to just have a reasonable conversation when we talk about the
alternatives --

MACCALLUM: Yes.

MAKARY: -- and that is when schools are closed.

MACCALLUM: Great point.

MAKARY: There is a lot of public health problems.

MACCALLUM: Dr. Marty Makary, thank you. Good to see you tonight.

Lisa Dubrow is a kindergarten teacher in California with more than three
decades of experience in the classroom. Her school has yet to open its
doors for in- person learning and there is no timeline for them to do that
any time soon.

Lisa, thank you so much for joining us tonight. You sent us some very
thoughtful words about how important you think this crisis is for our
children in the country. You say that you believe that the government in
California is holding the people hostage in this situation. What do you
mean by that?

LISA DUBROW, KINDERGARTEN TEACHER IN CALIFORNIA: Thank you for this
opportunity. I have witnessed the government using children to prevent
adults from returning to their jobs and for our economy to kick back to the
life that we had had before COVID hit.

We see all the anxiety built around COVID. We see people fearful for their
future financial wellbeing. And on top of that at the height of anxiety we
ask parents to take on the role of basically teachers in the home via
computerized learning. That is just a cocktail that's way too far for
anyone to imagine, especially for young children. I'm a kindergarten
teacher. We are all about the concrete. And the computer isn't very
concrete.

MACCALLUM: So, Lisa, you know, you saw the comments that Randi Weingarten
made. And she represents teachers all across the country. She is concerned
about their health, about the children's health, but you disagree with what
she is all about in this debate. Why?

DUBROW: Correct. Randi Weingarten is a political activist. She has a
political goal. She and others who are united in their vision for what
America should look like the word transformation. They are using this
situation and others to transform America.

MACCALLUM: So, you think that we are becoming too complacent in the rules
and regulations that surround this and that we have become too frightened
about it? Is that accurate?

DUBROW: Actually, my county of 1.6 million people in April under 200 people
had died due to COVID. One point six compared to 200 deaths. And those
deaths were people in their late 60s and 70s. It made no sense that all
around me people were able to go to school or work or the gym but we were
able to go to Costco and we were able to go to the grocery store. It never
made sense.

MACCALLUM: And you say you've seen top level students who are now failing
in their schools. That's tragedy.

DUBROW: Well, it's tragedy for everyone because top level students, who
have been straight A's students are now giving up. I know parents dealing
with these very depressed children. Young people who haven't been able to
be with their friends, continue their sports are looking at college and
just going how is this going to work?

MACCALLUM: Right.

DUBROW: Students who are not high achievers are overwhelmed with the
distance, the lack of connection, the social, emotional benefits of being
with other kids and being with people that care for you and enjoy you,
we've lost the positive connection, the relationship to learning.

MACCALLUM: Well, like a kindergarten teacher you get right to the heart of
the matter and it's obvious that you care about these children a lot. Lisa
Dubrow, thank you very much for being here tonight. I do appreciate it.

DUBROW: Thank you.

MACCALLUM: So, coming up next, Republican Governor Pete Ricketts of
Nebraska on his reluctance to mandate mask-wearing in his state. He has a
different approach and he joins us with that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: What I failed
to mention earlier is the enormous respect I have for Republican,
conservative Republican governors who stepped up and issued mandates for
wearing masks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: President-elect Biden has stopped short of calling for a
nationwide mask mandate. He gets asked about it a lot. But he may
reportedly work to implement one in a roundabout way by persuading the 13
Republican governors who have yet to make it mandatory in their state into
doing so.

Among them my next guest Nebraska Governor Pete Ricketts. Governor, good to
have you with us tonight. Thank you for being here.

GOV. PETE RICKETTS (R-NE): My pleasure, Martha. Thanks for having me on.

MACCALLUM: So, he is talking clearly about governors like Kim Reynolds in
neighboring Iowa who has implemented a mask mandate in the state of Iowa.
And you would be on the list of those who haven't done what he would like
to see happen in all of the states. What would you say to him? What's your
-- what's your reasoning?

RICKETTS: Well, what I would tell the vice president is that every state is
different and every state has its own approach to how to manage the
pandemic and that's been successful throughout this pandemic. Here in
Nebraska we have put director health measures in place to slow the spread
of the virus and preserve a hospital capacity.

Now we do require wearing masks in businesses where staff and patrons are
going to be closer than fix feet for 15 minutes or more. But masks by
themselves are not going to be a panacea to stop the pandemic. You know,
states like Wisconsin have had a mask mandate since August 1st and yet they
see similar climbs in their cases as we do here in Nebraska.

And one of the things we talk about is that Swiss cheese approach where you
layer on the protections. We ask people to wear masks but we also ask them
to stay six feet apart to wash their hands, to go to the store by
themselves, to stay home when they are sick. Work from home if you can. All
these things together are what's going to slow the spread of the virus. A
single thing like a mask is not going to do it just by itself.

MACCALLUM: Yes, I think a lot of people have these questions because in
many cases they have been wearing the mask and then they got COVID anyway.
And they are trying to figure out if compliance on that front is helping
them although, you know, the White House and the CDC have been unanimous on
this. Here's what they continue to say, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFIELD, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION:
Masks work. Social distancing works. Hand washing works.

UNKNOWN: We know masks works but we know that some Americans aren't sure
and may not be as compliant as we'd like.

MICHAEL PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Wash your
hands, practice social distancing. Wear a mask when social distancing isn't
possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM: So, they are obviously recommending the kind of layering that
you talked about. You had you an incident, you know, the governor of
California had an incident. It seems like you know when you run a state you
are going to run into this situation where you were in a restaurant,
somebody yelled at you. You didn't have your mask on. What do you want to
say about that moment and whether or not you were setting the example that
you want to set?

RICKETTS: Well, for example, in Nebraska, when you are sitting down in a
restaurant you are not required to wear a mask. And in the case in
particular that was videoed. The family had called me over to take a
picture. And I asked do you want the mask on or mask off? And, you know,
kind of followed the guidelines of whatever the people are comfortable
with.

And I think, again, this gets back to masks will help slow the spread of
the virus but it's really, as some of the videos you just said if you
can't, you know, social distance or if you are going to be closer to
somebody for 15 minutes or more. So, typically when I take my mask off it's
not for that 15 minutes, it's for a short period of time while we take a
picture.

And so that really gets back to, you know, we have to think about these
things as tools we use to be able to slow the spread of the virus. That one
single thing like masks are not going to be a panacea to solve our problems
on this.

We have to layer these things together such as you described in your
videos, with, you know, keeping that six-foot of distance, washing your
hands, staying home when you are sick. Go to the store once a week by
yourself. You know, all these sorts sort of things will help us slow down
the spread of the virus. One thing by itself is not.

MACCALLUM: So, you have had very big spike in Nebraska over the past couple
of weeks and an increase in deaths over the last couple of weeks. You are
up to 877 which is a lot lower than many states across the country but
still obviously any life is too many to lose to this. What are you telling
people in Nebraska as we head into Thanksgiving week with regard to these
regulations that are being recommended?

RICKETTS: Yes, we started actually strengthening our DHMs, our directive
health measures starting October 15th. And one of the things we are telling
people for the Thanksgiving holiday is really rethink your plans with
regard to those family get-togethers.

You know, my family usually has a huge get together with, you know, 80
people or something like that. But you we are all doing individual family
groups this year. Doing smaller groups is going to be better because at the
end of the day this virus spreads from one person to another. Large groups
allow the virus to spread more. So we are asking people to be thoughtful
about their Thanksgiving plans and really look to have those smaller group
gatherings.

MACCALLUM: All right. Sounds like good advice. Thank you very much,
governor. Good to see you tonight.

RICKETTS: Thanks a lot, Martha. I appreciate it. Have a good one.

MACCALLUM (on camera): You bet. Good to see you.

So, after testing positive for COVID-19 earlier this month, HUD Secretary
Dr. Ben Carson has just given an update on his condition writing on
Facebook that he was, quote, "desperately ill at one point and that the
monoclonal antibody therapy saved his life." He says he is now out of the
woods and we wish him well tonight.

And next, former President Obama with this quip when asked if the president
will not concede the election?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, I
think we can always send the Navy SEALS in there to dig him out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM (voice over): Fox & Friends weekend co-host Pete Hegseth joins me
on that and his new book that celebrates America's modern warriors. He's
next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACCALLUM (voice over): Former president Barack Obama taking some playful
jabs at his successor as President Trump holds out on concession.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, COMEDIAN: You know the White House well. You lived there for
eight years. Are there places someone could hide like if, say, they were
going to be removed? Are there little cubby holes or anything we should
know about?

OBAMA: Well, I think we can always send the Navy SEALS in there to dig him
out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACCALLUM (on camera): Joining me now Pete Hegseth, Fox & Friends weekend
co-host and author of the new book out on Tuesday "Modern Warriors: Real
Stories, Real Heroes." Based on his program and there are just awesome
stories in there. So, Pete, great to see you tonight. Thanks for being
here.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: Great to see you, Martha. Thank you for having
me. I appreciate it.

MACCALLUM: It's our pleasure. Good to have you. So what do you -- what's
your response to the sort of joking about whether or not the president will
voluntarily leave and be out in time for a January 20th inauguration?

HEGSETH: Yes, it's all part of the narrative that they want to push. Of
course, the least interesting interview in America is Jimmy Kimmel and
Barack Obama. Do you hate Donald Trump more or I do hate Donald Trump more?
You know exactly what you are getting there. And it's not interesting.

And I guess the Navy SEALS would have been -- liked to have been unleashed
in 2015 and 2016 to take down the caliphate and ISIS but they weren't.
Donald Trump had to do that.

But ultimately, this is part of the mythology that they are trying to push
on the left which is that ultimately Donald Trump or whoever does not win
would not ultimately concede. And what the president has said time and time
again is, let's get all the legal votes counted, see where it lands, and
then ultimately there will be a peaceful transfer of power.

But, until that happens, talking about sending in the Navy SEALS is just
perpetuating one side of the narrative. And the president's team has every
right in the world after what's been done to him for four years to spend
two weeks, four weeks, six weeks looking into everything at a micro level,
at a macrolevel to determine whether or not this vote was actually fair.

I do not believe we have a president-elect at this moment. I think we will
determine that based on what the electors say but based on what legal teams
find and legal challenges find. At that time there will be a transfer. But,
until then, all of this is meant to feed the narrative that Donald Trump is
still illegitimate here four years later which is what the left has always
said and always wanted.

MACCALLUM: That sound bite was interesting from President Obama talking
about the increase in black and Latino vote and black vote in particular in
this comment. It's a quote, actually. Let's put it up on the screen and we
will take a look at it.

It says people are writing about the fact that Trump increased his support
among black men and the occasional rapper who supported Trump. I have to
remind myself that if you listen to rap music it's all about the bling, the
women, the money. A lot of rap videos are using the same measures of what
it means to be successful as Donald Trump is everything is gold-plated that
insinuates itself and seeps into the culture.

What do you think about that, Pete?

HEGSETH: Am I missing something, Martha? Wasn't it Jay-Z that made a couple
of trips to the White House and I don't know if you've checked Jay-Z's
lyrics recently but there is plenty of bling and women and money in his
lyrics. So, does it only go one way? I'm not sure.

The reality is they are dismissing the fact that President Trump took very
seriously the black vote, did not take it for granted and said I'm
investing in you in meaningful ways, criminal justice reform, historically
black colleges, unemployment rates. Seriously saying I don't take you as a
novelty. I want to address your concerns and be serious about it.

And he awoken in amongst black men, black women and others the idea as
Candace Owens says we are not victims, we can be victors. And this country
enables us to be successful just like anybody else. And I don't buy into
the victim mentality, that's a powerful thing that can be dismissed by
Barack Obama or the left. But ultimately, it's a product of a very
intentional outreach that the president has made, which is good on him for
doing.

MACCALLUM: I think it's an insulting statement to those performers really.

HEGSETH: Of course.

MACCALLUM: Because it belittles the issues that they brought up. You know?
They brought up taxes. They brought up abortion. Kanye West brought up
abortion. It's the things that they really cared about.

HEGSETH: Very true.

MACCALLUM: That they felt resonated. So I find it kind of an insulting
comment. But Pete, thank you. And I really suggest everybody check out
"Modern Warriors" and the Fox Nation patriot awards that are coming up that
you are hosting.

HEGSETH: Yes.

MACCALLUM: It's just such a great job. So, thanks for being here tonight.
Good to see you.

HEGSETH: Thank you, Martha. I appreciate it.

MACCALLUM: You bet. So now we have an important tribute to read to you
November 23rd, 1943. U.S. Marine Corps PFC Thomas Johnson was killed while
fighting Japanese forces fighting World War II in the Battle of Tarawa. He
was just 18 years old at the time. His body was never found until now.
Young Tom Johnson's remains are finally coming home to California. Thanks
to the work of honor flight who discovered a burial site on Betio Island in
2009.

A proper funeral with full military honors will be held on Monday, November
23rd. That's exactly 77 years after Tom Johnson's death. Johnson was
posthumously awarded the silver medal for his actions during the fight
where he was killed.

Secretary of the Navy John Sullivan writing this. By his daring initiative
dauntless perseverance and cool courage in the face of danger, Private
First-Class Johnson contributed materially to the success of the engagement
and his unwavering devotion to duty throughout was in keeping with the
highest traditions of the United States naval service."

Sadly, Thomas' brother Hugh was also fighting on the island as a marine
that day. He was also killed and his body has not been recovered.

That is The Story of Friday, November 20th, 2020. But, as always, the story
continues. So, we will see you back here on Monday night at seven. Have a
great night, everybody. Tucker Carlson, coming up next.
 

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