Senate Republicans win health care bill showdown

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This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 25, 2017. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I am Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Jesse Watters, Dana Perino and Ed Henry. It's 9:00 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

This is a Fox News alert. A short time ago, President Trump pumped up supporters at his Make America Great Again rally in Ohio. This comes on the hills of a crucial victory on Capitol Hill where the Senate voted to start debating Republican legislation to repeal and replace ObamaCare. It was closed. Fifty one to 50 with Vice President Mike Pence casting the breaking vote. The President praised today's progress in the Senate at his Buckeye state event.


PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Only a few hours ago, the Senate approved they vote to begin debating the repealing and replacing the ObamaCare disaster. We are now one step closer to liberating our citizens from this ObamaCare nightmare.


And delivering great health care for the American people. We will going to do that too. I am back in the center of the America Heartland, far away from the Washington swamp, to spend time with thousands of true Americans patriots.


GUILFOYLE: And the President had a stern warning to fellow Republicans.


TRUMP: Every Republican running for office promised to repeal and replace this disastrous law. Now they must keep their promise. The Senate is working not only to repeal ObamaCare but to deliver great health care for the American people. Any senator who votes against repeal and replace is telling America that they are fine with the ObamaCare nightmare. And I predict they will have a lot of problems.


GUILFOYLE: All right. So, that was the President today. Feeling his roots. Back with his supporters. Feeling optimistic about the future. And what I have to say. I'm optimistic. Make "The Five" great again. Welcome on this great panel tonight. Ed Henry, welcome.

ED HENRY, GUEST CO-HOST: I am so excited to be with everyone. Especially Jesse.


GUILFOYLE: He evokes that feeling. So, what did you think today in terms of the President's remarks and where we are now in kind of the epicenter of all of these --

HENRY: He was in his element. I mean, he was, you know, feeding off that crowd. And I think he was reframing this debate for the first time in a long time which is that the Republicans have failed to frame this as ObamaCare is failing. There are good parts of ObamaCare that Republicans don't want to admit. A lot more people have been covered. But how do you pay for that?

President Obama didn't really lay all that out. He also lied about, you know, keep your plan, keep your doctor and all of that. So, you know that. But Republicans have allowed this to become a debate about how bad their bill is. When we don't even really know what they're going to wind up with. Because it is going to be amended dozens and dozens of time.

So, to finally frame it as we are in trouble with ObamaCare, it's falling apart, premiums are escalating, let's do something to move this forward, was smart on his part. And I think when he's feeding off that crowd, at certain points, he would get the applause and would stop and just start wandering around like a prize fighter.


HENRY: You know, and just reveling on his --

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: On the motion that he received.

HENRY: On the motion that he received. Right. Well, and he's different than the Rose Garden though. Remember when the House passed, you're right. It was a big celebration and a song and dance.


HENRY: Right? And they made a mistake on that early on. When the House passed the bill, this was the first round in that prizefight. And he was dancing in the end zone there in the Rose Garden a couple of months back.

WATTERS: Where has this President Trump been? I mean, we have been waiting for President Trump to really push ObamaCare repeal and then replace for quite some time. Finally ones he gets his back against the wall, he finally comes out swinging. We could have used that in June, we could have used it in July. Now, it's late July, he finally comes out swinging after basically was up against the wall.

But now, finally he is putting pressure on senators. That's what you need to do. Because right now, he said it. It's death. ObamaCare is in a death spiral. Everybody believes it. Everybody knows it. And we know the thing is failing. So, Juan knows it.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, in fact, I am in shock.

WATTERS: It's not a big deal. They talked about it in Virginia.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

WATTERS: There are people lining up for health care and they don't have any health care. No one can give anybody health care. Premiums are skyrocketing.

WILLIAMS: Oh my God!

WATTERS: Juan, the bill is a disaster.

WILLIAMS: Oh my goodness!

WATTERS: No one likes it. Everybody wants to replace it, but these little, you know, sassy senators, you know, want that Medicare money. That's the truth.

HENRY: Medicaid.

WATTERS: Yes. They want the Medicaid money.


GUILFOYLE: The same thing. Different cousins. Different cousins.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. Yes. With some programs.

HENRY: So, nobody likes this?

WATTERS: There are a lot of Republican senators, they want their Medicaid money --


WATTERS: -- and if, you know, they're going to give them the Medicaid money, I don't know if they're going to get it. But the problem is health care is failing.

HENRY: Kimberly help him out.

WATTERS: And we're going to get --

GUILFOYLE: Okay. Back to winning. So, Dana, so what do you make of this? You've been all along have been saying that the President really needs to get out there. And we talked about last night about going and campaigning in those different states where he's having calls with the senators to come forward, to get the support. He is out there back with his base trying to get some, you know, gin up some support, enthusiasm to get this done.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Yes. To be visible on it. It was really important and the speech might have been very different tonight if that motion to proceed had failed.

HENRY: Uh-hm.

PERINO: But you had the amazing moment of Senator John McCain that came and basically gave a little talk into that everyone seem to like.

GUILFOYLE: The Mavericks.

PERINO: So, there are some questions about, you know, the merits of these proposals going forward. But Senator Mitch McConnell also delivered. So, there was some teamwork here that you, you know, right up to the line but they are able to get it across and even Dean Heller, the senator from Nevada who have been very much against moving forward decided to vote with the majority.

And I think that when the President had that meeting, when he called all of the senators to the White House and they're having their lunch. And he said, if you can't even vote to actually have a conversation about this, then this is a big problem. I think that they realized they were all going to be in deep trouble. And I also think it's time to have this debate. There has been enough time talking around the edges. Now, they will go forward and they'll have lots of amendments and see what they come up with that.

GUILFOYLE: Right. They had all the ingredients. Now, let's make some jam, shall we?


So, Dana predicted -- so here's the thing, Dana predicted and she said that they thought that they would get the votes at least procedurally to go forward and like you said to have the conversation at least to get this done. Because they have been complaining about ObamaCare and the fact that they wanted to do something about it. So now is the time.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, debate what? We still don't know what! So, you are basically buying lock, stock and barrel, like an empty vessel and saying, oh yes, let's have this debate. So --

PERINO: They know what all the ingredients are.

WILLIAMS: Do the Republicans right now know what is in the bill they will debate? No. Did you know that John McCain today dramatically reappeared said, he would never vote for any of the bills that are on the floor right now. So, you have people like Rob Portman out of Ohio, Dean Heller I've mentioned early out of Nevada. Rand Paul, Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia.

WATTERS: What is your point, Juan?

WILLIAMS: They will never vote for any of the bills that are currently there. Amendments, amendments --

PERINO: But that was their point.

WILLIAMS: So, this is really an empty act.

PERINO: What do you mean that, you don't think they will vote for if it doesn't get amended in a way that they like?

WILLIAMS: No. They will not vote for it, is my point.

PERINO: Even if it's amended in a way that they --

WILLIAMS: No. Because the dynamic here is evidence that if you amend it in a way, as to appeal to more conservative elements in the party, you will going to lose more moderate elements in the party.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: The moderates, the conservatives fall away. So, that's what we're up against.

PERINO: All right. Kimberly, that seemed even more important reason than for President Trump to keep doing what he's doing.


WILLIAMS: Yes. But for what, if he had gotten involved at this point Dana. The best you can say is look --

GUILFOYLE: But you're saying that he's got it what he does. That he's good at getting support out there and that's what he's doing.

WILLIAMS: No, that's like, the Republicans right now on Capitol Hill, they said, you know what? You really doesn't know the details. He doesn't know anything about healthcare. We don't want them in it. But we could use them out there pushing and using his Twitter account alike. So, he is out there. But even in the speech today --

WATTERS: I don't like the Twitter account.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And by the way --

WILLIAMS: No, I am saying, this is what Republicans --

GUILFOYLE: -- they certainly like him helping them to get re-elected and getting their sits.

WILLIAMS: Oh! How many of those Republicans won by larger margins than Trump?

WATTERS: They fear Trump on the stump?

WILLIAMS: No. In fact today, you know what? I was struck by --

WATTERS: But that's -- like to me.

WILLIAMS: I think he embarrassed himself in front of the Boy Scouts yesterday politicizing the jamboree. But I will say this, today it was, there is total devastation in Europe. There is murder in Chicago. The founding fathers would protect industries. What industries were around --

WATTERS: So, there's murders in Chicago run by a Democratic mayor, Juan. Whose fault is that? Does Donald Trump want to send in the National Guard?

WILLIAMS: Oh, let me tell you. And you know what he said about immigrants, Jesse?

WATTERS: You tell me, Juan.

WILLIAMS: They're slightly indicting 15-year-old girl.

GUILFOYLE: That's another block and another show. But let's talk about one of my favorite people. Because today we also saw the emotional return of Senator John McCain to the Senate floor following his brain cancer diagnosis voting in favor of moving forward with the health care debate and then McCain reminded us why he is called the maverick.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: Stop listening to the bombastic loud mouths on the radio and television and the internet. To hell with them. They don't want anything done for the public good. Our incapacity is their livelihood.


GUILFOYLE: Amazing just to see him there. When the rest of us are complaining about nonsense during the day and this man with a diagnosis like that has the patriotism and the wherewithal and the courage and the guts to come forward and be there when it count, when the rest of them want to go on recess. God bless him for his service and what he's done for this country.

PERINO: Also a tremendous amount of strength to be able to have the physical ability do that after that surgery last week.

GUILFOYLE: Remarkable.

PERINO: That said, I am going to disagree with something he said. He says to them, his fellow senators, ignore the bombastic radio talk show hosts out in the country.


PERINO: I actually think I would talk to them more. Not listen but I would talk to them more. And I think that the President if he has time in the morning should do an hour's worth of talk radio every day in the state -- you don't have to do national talk radio. I'm talking about local talk radio in the pick-10 states have them do an hour or so of talk radio. He would actually probably really enjoy it. And it's a way to really get to those constituents. They will be listening and they'll respond.

GUILFOYLE: I think that's a fantastic idea and actually it's one that I had not thought about. And I'll tell you, I think it would really resonate and it's just -- there we go.

HENRY: And when you look at the courage of John McCain to step up and enter this debate and say, let's move forward.


HENRY: Why is that there's not a single Democratic senator voted yes on the motion to proceed? Okay. Why not at least have this debate? I mean, Democrats have been saying for years, this is a great law, ObamaCare, pushing back about all of these premium increases and people losing their plans. And insisting, Chuck Schumer says, we want to fix what is broken in ObamaCare and yet not a single one voted on the motion received to actually have that debate, Juan, to fix it.

WILLIAMS: Because what you are talking about is it's based on the House bill which we know, you know, even President Trump has said is a --

HENRY: But you could not amend because of the House rules but now in the Senate --

WILLIAMS: No, no. But that is one at the basis for the Senate bill and the Senate bill thing goes forward and we know that the Senate bill doesn't even have the support of enough Republicans as it stands.

WATTERS: Forget about crying Chuck. We don't need crying Chuck support. They blew it. They had eight years to figure out health care, nothing happened about health care. And now it's Republicans turn. Let Republicans have a shot at it. Right?

WILLIAMS: Well, they have their shot but they still have not come up with a better bill than ObamaCare. And that's why most of the --

WATTERS: Anything better than ObamaCare. It can't get any worse than ObamaCare.

WILLIAMS: You know what? This is what McCain was talking about. Ignore these loud mouths talk show.

HENRY: Who are you referring to?

GUILFOYLE: Are you talking about Jesse's future?


WATTERS: Okay. The Kasich trade over here.

WILLIAMS: McCain and Kasich said that.

PERINO: I do think the other thing is, I'm talking about this in terms of the President's speech tonight, it was very similar to one that we've heard him give for the last several months. I agree it's in his elements, but at some point he is going to want to go from the construct of, we will do this, to we have done this.


PERINO: And trying to get this bill over the finish line, that also means that they will be able to move the tax reform which is that was probably the biggest applause we got tonight --


PERINO: -- was talking about the middle-class tax cut that he's planned.

GUILFOYLE: Doesn't that tell you Dana so much in terms of what people want him. We've talked about this before. That really the way for the President to win ultimately even larger I think than health care, yes, there's a loss, but a pro-growth economy, jobs, tax reform. Those are the types of things that will really I think going to resonate and permeate not only state lines with who we voted for, right, party lines. Because everybody is going to enjoy and be able to applaud that. I mean, that's one of the reasons --

HENRY: He did this interview with the "Wall Street Journal" today once to bring the corporate tax rate down to 15 percent. He's probably not going to be able bring it down that far, but if he brings it down 20, 22 percent, that is going to bring back plants in places like Youngstown. That's going to create jobs.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.

HENRY: And it's going to mean more money in the paychecks of the hardworking --


HENRY: Sort of Trump Democrats who flipped for the first time and voted Republican last time. And you're right, he has to start delivering for those voters.

GUILFOYLE: It's all right.

HENRY: He's done a lot of executive actions.

GUILFOYLE: The Democrats abandoned him. But he gave the working men and women across the country shelter when they were put out by the Democrats that were not listening to them. That was part of the problem Juan for your party. Because they went over onto the Trump tent.

WILLIAMS: Okay. So, let me respond by saying, empty rhetoric doesn't help people who need jobs.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, policy behind it.

WILLIAMS: Let's celebrate carrier. They're saving jobs. Oh, do you know what happened?


WILLIAMS: Oh, carrier just sent their jobs to Mexico. Does anybody say, oh, that empty rhetoric was just hot air and he actually didn't help the workers of America?

WATTERS: President Obama said, he was for the middle-class for eight years and middle class got hammered for the last ten years.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Hammered. Like the stock market, like rising wages.

WATTERS: Okay. Forget about the stock market. Wages went down under the Obama administration, from middle class families if you look at the statistics, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, God! Please.

WATTERS: So, President Trump comes into office. Not only is the stock market rising but middle-class wages are starting to rise as well. And if he can get middle-class wages to rise, he will win all of the states he won and pick off these Hillary blue states like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, you know, Michigan. And you guys will be out of luck! He only needs to win one more state than he carried in the last election, Juan.


WATTERS: Forget about it.


WATTERS: In another way to --

GUILFOYLE: Look at this enthusiasm.

WILLIAMS: You could ace your SATs.


HENRY: Oh, wow!

GUILFOYLE: Whew! I love it. I love it. So, you know, Jesse, what did you say?

PERINO: He had a good parent.

GUILFOYLE: I love it. Dana is like the phone of friends for the --


Can I get a Michigan? All right. So, Ed, tell me what you think. And coming up next. How does the President galvanize and move forward on this in terms of like, because, you know, there were some rough spots here. But it seems now that things are being able to, you know, coalesce. He is trying to move this forward in his agenda and, you know, puts some wins up.

HENRY: What he has to do is, it's not just about empty rhetoric.


HENRY: He has to go out in the country, give these speeches but actually build support for these programs. Get his hands dirty on some of the details and go to the American people to build pressure on these Republicans on Capitol Hill. They've had it easy for a long time. They were able to vote to repeal ObamaCare knowing that President Obama was going to veto it.

PERINO: Right.

HENRY: Now all of a sudden, it means business. Dana is right about those talk radio stations. Why is he not also following up this visit and do talk radio in Dayton and Columbus and put pressure on Rob Portman, do it on West Virginia. How is it that -- more capital? A state? West Virginia, Donald Trump won by 30 or 40 points. How is the Republican senator there not the big cheerleader for --

WATTERS: You're saying, Trump needs to call Limbaugh? Is that what you're saying?

HENRY: He needs to call in to local folks --

WATTERS: Local folks. Right.

GUILFOYLE: I would do that. I would flood. I would push in and flood those markets.

WATTERS: Flood the zone.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Don't wait for those to take. Put the pressure there right there on those constituents to be able to feed it out to them.

PERINO: And also the support. Also the support. So, for example, if I were them, I would call into the local talk radio stations in Nevada and I would praise Dean Heller.


PERINO: Because you know, it's one thing to manage out of fear but there's another to manage because you're leading and you're praising.

WILLIAMS: And you know that reality is in fact on the President's direction, there was a threat against Heller.

PERINO: I know.

WILLIAMS: And then they had to back that up, Dana.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: So, I am struck by the fact that nobody at this table says, oh, you know what? They should have a better health care plan that actually helps to cover more Americans.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's what they are trying to do.

WILLIAMS: But they have not done it! And still haven't done it. And they don't have a bill.

HENRY: Because they just started.


WATTERS: Premiums have sky rocketed under the Obama administration.


WILLIAMS: One of the biggest companies reported today, they are making money under ObamaCare. That's how broken it is.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, so far the prescription for success is going to get a little like infrastructure dirt under your nails, right? Do something besides your policy.

PERINO: Smile and dial.

GUILFOYLE: Smile and dial. Sprinkle a little sugar on it, go to those states, led the markets with local radio. There you go. We've sold all of the problems. More show coming up.

President Trump's criticism of Jeff Sessions intensifies. Does he plan to fire the Attorney General? Details when we'll return.


GUILFOYLE: President Trump ramping up his public criticism of Attorney General Jeff Sessions in a string of early morning tweets accusing him of taking a, quote, "Very weak position investigating Hillary Clinton." The President further explained his displeasure with Sessions during the press conference at the White House this afternoon.


TRUMP: I am disappointed in the Attorney General. He should not have recused himself almost immediately after he took office. And if he was going to recuse himself, he should have told me prior to taking office. And I would have quite simply picked somebody else. I want the Attorney General to be much tougher on the leaks from Intelligence Agencies. I told you before, I am very disappointed with the Attorney General. But we will see what happens. Time will tell.


GUILFOYLE: It has been a bizarre couple of days on this issue. Jesse is looking at me very intently and insisting that he wants to take this one first. So, take it away, Jesse Watters.

WATTERS: Donald Trump is a private sector guy. And if this was the Trump organization, he would expect his in-house counsel to defend him. And he is thinking this is what it's like being President of the United States. My Attorney General should defend me. He will be my protector. Trump feels exposed. Sessions is exposing him by recusing himself. So, he feels exposed, he doesn't like it. I get it. It's not the private sector. He should not be thinking like this, but that's how he thinks. Because that - - in the private sector, that's how a CEO react to someone that did that.

On the other hand, I'm listening to talk radio, a lot of people are calling in, saying, you know what? If he dumps Jeff Sessions, I am not going to like that. I am not going to like that a lot. Because Jeff Sessions was in on Trump from the get go. Jeff Sessions was in on Trump from the jump. So, if he dumps him right now, it doesn't look good. Especially if he brings in Rudy Giuliani, he is a New York guy.

You know, not tough on immigration. So, Trump is a little bit of a jam here. I understand what he's thinking is because he feels exposed but at the same time a lot of people are feeling from the Trump train that he needs to stick with Jeff Sessions.

PERINO: I don't understand the goal here, Kimberly.


PERINO: Because the President then tweeted that yesterday that his Attorney General was beleaguered. I will say he's beleaguered because of the President undermining him. And then today, he also said in an interview with the "Wall Street Journal," that basically Sessions didn't really like him so much as he liked the crowd size in Alabama. Jeff Sessions won in Alabama by like 97.5 percent of the vote. Maybe they can't do a rally the way that President Trump can. Maybe nobody can. What is the goal here that he's trying to achieve?

GUILFOYLE: You know what this is? This is the President being transparent. Being he asked the motive and telling you, I am personally having a hard time with this. I am frustrated. I am feeling little disappointed. Yes, Jeff was with me from the beginning and he definitely appreciated that. I think the frustration comes from the Mueller investigation, et cetera.

So, instead of us sort of wondering what the President thinks about it, it's all playing out, you know, in real time here. I think it is a problem for the President. If he were to fire Jeff Sessions or even if Jeff Sessions were to resign. I don't think the President wants to fire him. I think he's genuinely --

PERINO: It feels like he wants to humiliate him.

GUILFOYLE: We thought about it last night, it's not a good idea. But you know, and who is going to replace him and what you're going to do. And I think the optics could be very poor for the President like they were when it seemed like a good idea that the Democrats even supported getting rid of, you know, Comey and then we saw the fallout and the aftermath from that.

I think it's distracting at this point in time when you really need to focus on some of the other things that the President is trying to get done like, you know, immigration and tax reform, and health care. And I think it's something that it's now just going to obfuscate instead of providing clarity and progression for --

PERINO: It's interesting. Because the President is mad at Jeff Sessions for not having clairvoyance in order to know that he should recuse himself before he even took office so he would not have been appointed. But shouldn't he also be mad at the people who didn't tell him what accurately happened after the firing of Comey, that the Democrats were not going to celebrate? Like I would be mad at those people who got that wrong.

HENRY: Right. Because they were telling the President, Democrats is going to love this idea of you firing Comey. And it didn't work. I think in addition to what Kimberly is saying about the optics, it looked terrible for the President to be beating up on his own person. As Newt Gingrich said, loyalty is a two way street. This president demand loyalty. He needs to be loyal to his cabinet members who are busting their butts for him. These ties into our last segment.

We're talking about what kind of wins does this president have? What does he racking up? Well, you know what? Jeff Sessions has been somewhat quietly and not quietly racking up wins. He is the guy cracking down on illegal immigrants that the President --

PERINO: -- about sanctuary cities.

HENRY: Sanctuary cities. He announced just I believe last week a major crackdown on health care fraud.

PERINO: Right.

HENRY: The money that we actually want to squeeze out in saying, people --

WATTERS: But the President feels exposed because Jeff Sessions recused himself from the Russian thing and he feels there is a little bit of disloyalty in that avenue.

PERINO: Maybe the President should not have gone on Lester Holt and said that he fired Comey for cause and not the memo.

WATTERS: And the President feels like recusing herself was a weak move by Jeff Sessions.

PERINO: Well, I have to say it was probably not a smart move to go on Lester Holt and say that which caused the whole --

WATTERS: And Jeff Sessions could have also not recused himself and we would not have this problem.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But then it would not be right. Because in fact he did have contact with Russia. Some of them undisclosed the point.

WATTERS: So what? It's not illegal to have a contact with Russia.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say, it's not just me. But you have Rudy Giuliani as well as others in the Senate saying, that was the appropriate thing to do. John Cornyn from Texas said today, that was the right move for Jeff Sessions as a law man. He is the nation's top law enforcement officer. He behaved appropriately. This is not about the President's feelings by the way. I don't think he has any bad feelings about the Attorney General. He wants somebody who will fire Robert Mueller and that's what this is about.

WATTERS: He wants someone who is going to get his back.

GUILFOYLE: It's more than that too though. He wants somebody that is going to fully investigate as it relates to the unmasking and what happens during the Obama --


WILLIAMS: This is like what he said today --

GUILFOYLE: I'm just telling you that that is something that --

WILLIAMS: But I'm telling you, these are political ploys, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe supplemental but not --

WILLIAMS: It's a political ploys. Don't pay attention to this. Well, my hand is back here talking about leaks.

GUILFOYLE: You know what he's comparing it too? Here's the problem. The President is going like this. Wakes up in the morning, he's going, here's what President Obama had. Holder and Loretta Lynch. Here's what I have. And he's like, what is going on here? That's part of it.

WILLIAMS: Yes. He can't get such good people.

GUILFOYLE: But if you -- no, the point is, if you looked in the past, the Attorney General has really been, it's true, an arm of the President.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say --

GUILFOYLE: And they had Loretta Lynch --


WILLIAMS: Hold on! Hold on!

WATTERS: They guard the wall.


WATTERS: They guard the wall. He wants someone that is going to guard the wall.

WILLIAMS: This is not his personal lawyer.

WATTERS: I understand.


WILLIAMS: He wants the Attorney General to fire Robert Muller but then what does he do? He says things like today, oh, you should go after Hillary Clinton. Why aren't they investigating dirty, nasty Hillary? Again, what kind of country --

HENRY: Here is the other thing, we keep hearing that Jeff Sessions is not talking directly to the President. The President doesn't want to take his call. Their staff is talking to each other. He's not going to resign. Here is an opportunity for the President, I think. His critics say he is emoting on Twitter as you said. So, he vented. Jesse is right. He is mad about the recusal and all of this stuff. He has an opportunity now. Call Jeff Sessions in tomorrow.

GUILFOYLE: Sit down, face to face.

HENRY: Let's sit down. Let's work together.

PERINO: Right. I think that's what going to happen.

HENRY: That's what he'll do.

GUILFOYLE: They have to sit down face-to-face, they have to talk.

HENRY: Stop fighting it out over Twitter.

GUILFOYLE: This needs to go over here and then you focus on the things in this lane. Right? Don't slow it down. You are in like the HOV lane, keep going. Don't merge right. You know? That's what I think.

WILLIAMS: Well, he can't fire Robert Mueller. And that's the problem. That's why they are stuck. That's why you get a situation where Breitbart --

WATTERS: It's supposed to let Loretta Lynch --

WILLIAMS: Hang on! Where you get Breitbart, you get Mark Levin, you know, you get --


WILLIAMS: -- everybody, Newt included, all saying, don't do this. This is the wrong way to go.

PERINO: But sometimes though -- I mean, I do think that they will makeup. But it's also, I guess it's plausible that he would not like it that all of these people are telling him what he can't do and that he will continue to do that very thing.

GUILFOYLE: Some other people need to go before them.


GUILFOYLE: Mysterious, read the paper.

WILLIAMS: I want to read your mind.

GUILFOYLE: You might pass out and expire.


WILLIAMS: Tell me, who do you think has to go? Who do you think is going to go first?

GUILFOYLE: I think that this health care hasn't happened. A lot of promises made from the President. I personally would be frustrated with that. Especially you have the house and the senate, you got it all, what is the excuse? We all have to go.

WILLIAMS: You should not beat up on fellow Republicans the way the President is right now.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my god.

WATTERS: We are going to listen to Juan William's advice.


HENRY: Juan says don't beat up on Republicans.

PERINO: All right. Up next President Trump saying that one of his favorite targets are the media, we will show you what he said next, but first here is a bit more from the President's rally earlier today.




TRUMP: Well he is a young man. He is going back home to mommy. Oh, is he in trouble. He is in trouble!



And I will bet his mommy voted for us, right?




WATTERS: We are continuing our coverage of President Trump make America great again rally in Youngstown, Ohio. Tonight, he took jabs at one of his favorite subjects, the mainstream media.


TRUMP: I am here this evening to cut through the fake news filter and to speak straight to the American people. This has been a difficult week for the media, because I forced them to travel with us all around the country and spend time with tens of thousands of proud Americans, who believe in defending our values, our culture, our borders, our civilization, and our great American way of life!

What a dishonest group of people. I will tell you. You know the funny thing is you would think they would want to see our country be great again. You would really think so, but they don't. Some day they will explain it to me why.


WATTERS: So this is what I call the Scaramucci effect. He is back out on the campaign trail. My Washington sources told me this would happen.


He is back now fighting against the mainstream media -- effective tactic, Kimberly, go for it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, this is where he revels, ok? This is where he shines. People love it. People watch, they tune in. The numbers are great, because this is quintessential Trump, right and that is what love to see. They Remember candidate Trump and they like to embrace as President Trump. And it is really where he is best in terms of his messaging. And it's more effective than going on twitter, because he is able to reach through the screen and connect. You feel like you are right there embracing and taking in and soaking up, you know the moment. I like when he does this. Dana said too, when he speaks and is not on prompter, and he is extemporaneous, it's very authentic and people are actually sitting there listening and waiting for the next moment.

WATTERS: One of the reasons Trump beat Hillary was because he was authentic. And when he is now back out there on the campaign trail, so to speak, he is an authentic person that resonates.

PERINO: Yes, but there is two things I would say. One is that, you know when he goes after the media, I feel like its how he is going after Sessions. I think apparently Jeff Sessions is sort of blowing it off and ignoring it. I think the media is kind of doing it too, because guess what? Trump actually does like Jeff Sessions. They will probably makeup at some point. And yes he does like the media. He did an interview today with the fake media. He did one last week with the fake media. He likes to have them around. This is a lot of bluster and entertainment. I came to the conclusion he doesn't really mean it. Though he is probably going to tell me I am wrong.


The other things is I think that there is something missing and something that Anthony Scaramucci the Director of communications can do that would finally make me think that these are even more effective. And that is at the top of the speech, it got to have some sort of news to drive the next day. They are not doing anything. This speech I heard so many times. It's the same thing over and over again. It's effective in those crowds. That if you want to drive the story the next day, you have to put something at the top that every reporter sitting there -- maybe that is the only part you listen to. I know you reporter times.

HENRY: Oh! You know me.

PERINO: Like, you reporter types that are sitting there at the back.

We did a lot of time together back in the day.

HENRY: We did.

PERINO: You know what I mean. You are looking for something right at the top.

HENRY: We heard this beat up the media stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Dana said this is the press briefing too, years ago.

HENRY: It also cuts through. You are right. The people want to hear it. It's authentic. But they will harness that energy, harness going around the filter with some meat about tax cuts, for example. Newt Gingrich said today, he has to get tax cuts by thanksgiving. You will see people going into the Christmas season spending all kinds of money and the stock market will rise as it already is. And then, that is the best revenge for this President.

WATTERS: Against the resistance. He is laying the ground for tax cuts. This rallies in July.

HENRY: Instead of fighting in which Jeff Sessions said.

GUILFOYLE: It's not too soon. I mean they should do that right now. They are working very aggressively around the clock on the tax reform, because they know that is a winning narrative, that they should like you said, pave the road right now with their best messenger.

WILLIAMS: Well but you know what? The reality is they are spending time not on tax reform but on trying to resuscitate health care. And when I watch this kind of thing, this performance that you guys are so enthusiastic about it, I think not only I have seen it before, at just some point, you just want to say this is like a branded circus. It's quite entertaining. And everybody says horrible things about the immigrants and the blacks in Chicago and horrible things about --

GUILFOYLE: He never said anything about blacks in Chicago.

WILLIAMS: You know when he talks about -

GUILFOYLE: Talking about

WILLIAMS: -- the murders, on-going murders.

GUILFOYLE: He is upset about the loss of life. How is that negative?

WILLIAMS: I got a different message. His concern is they are out of control in a Democratic City and its black. I just find it off putting.

WATTERS: Off putting to care about blacks in Chicago?

WILLIAMS: No, believe me, he is not caring.

GUILFOYLE: I think that is an outrageous statement.


WATTERS: The President doesn't care that blacks are getting killed.

GUILFOYLE: That is why he offered help?

WILLIAMS: No, if you allow me to speak.



WILLIAMS: He is in fact speaking to an all-white audience. And I think pushing the fair button. New York is being devastated. These immigrants are slicing and dicing 15-year-old girls. That is the message that is coming through Jesse.

WATTERS: I think the message is coming through that he cares that people are dying on the streets of Chicago and he wants to save American lives.

WILLIAMS: Let me just tell you how much --

WATTERS: He is breaking news tonight, the Justice Department, crackdown against sanctuary cities. I will tell you what they are doing, up next.



WILLIAMS: Some breaking news tonight. The Justice Department is announcing its escalating the crackdown on sanctuary cities. The Department of Justice says that it won't give some cities some law enforcement grant money unless they give federal immigration authorities access to jails. They also want alerts when someone facing deportation that is about to be release from local custody. President Trump further addressed his immigration agenda and the border wall at tonight's rally.


TRUMP: Don't even think about it. We will build the wall. Don't even think about it.



I watched the media as they say -- well he just had some fun during the campaign on the wall. That wasn't fun, folks. We are building that wall, and walls do work. We will have great people come into our country, but we are not going to put ourselves through the problems that we have had for so many years.



American cities should be sanctuaries for law-abiding Americans. For people that look up to the law. For people that respect the law. Not for criminals and gang members that we want the hell out of our country!




WILLIAMS: So this is a critical moment, because here you have the sanctuary cities now under direct attack in terms of grant money coming from Justice. The President still out there talking about the wall, is it going to change anything? Or is this just static? Dana?

PERINO: Well -


GUILFOYLE: Jesse (inaudible).

PERINO: So, law enforcement is split. You do have some law enforcement, chiefs of police saying this not a good idea, that we need to have sanctuary cities that allow us to gather the intelligence to protect people. They are not loud enough actually. This message is swamping Democrats. Just from a political perspective, I do think it's extremely difficult for Democrats as it continues for them to oppose this policy. That sanctuary city is a really smart thing for the President to talk about. He can talk about the wall as well, simultaneously, but this piece is very important. We saw the Justice Department and the Attorney General Jeff Sessions is actually the one driving this trend.

WILLIAMS: I just want to mention to you guys the latest Fox poll asked the questioned, how likely, do you think it is the congress will approve funding to build a wall on the U.S. Mexico border, 56 percent said not at all. What do you think?

WATTERS: Prototypes are already being developed and the wall is going to be beautiful. You can see through the other side according to some of the new prototypes for the patrol can see the other side which is very advantageous, so you could see all of the drugs being catapulted across.


WATTERS: Because that is very dangerous Juan. Listen the wall will be built. It will be beautiful. And it is going to happen. It's going to be big. If Trump doesn't build the wall, it would be such a big problem for his base, for the presidency. If this thing doesn't get built and it will be built soon, but if it doesn't get built, it gets slowed down by Paul Ryan, there will be hell to pay. You remember the funding last session, they didn't give it money. If they don't give it money this September it will be a huge problem.

GUILFOYLE: He will want to fire Ryan.

HENRY: Without building the wall or beleaguered Jeff Sessions moving forward fully on this, the number of border crossings has dramatically decreased.

GUILFOYLE: you know as I always say, build the wall.

PERINO: Build the wall.

HENRY: Right and that is actually a success for this administration.

WATTERS: Down 70 percent, Juan.


HENRY: That is a big deal.

GUILFOYLE: There you go, Juan. That is Trump winning again.

WILLIAMS: I get so tired of the winning --


WATTERS: Take a nap, Juan.

WILLIAMS: I should. I will lay on your shoulder.

GUILFOYLE: He needs a 5-hour energy drink.

WILLIAMS: The fact you have people in the Republican congress not giving the money, Jesse opinion and saying we don't care. He talks about the wall, Kimberly and the crowd gets fired up.

GUILFOYLE: They love it, they love the wall. The President is 100 percent intent on building the wall and seeing it through. That is a fact. And when you see that coupled with the rest of his policies in terms of immigration cracking down on this and making sure we have national security as a priority, border security, you see what is happening in the courtrooms across the country. The crackdowns on sanctuary cities as a prosecutor was long over do. And guess what, ICE is falling too. Guess what people are doing these days, Juan, they are doing their job. They are following the law. They know the President is behind them and the AG's office as well. That is why we are seeing this big hit on ms-13 and criminal trafficking.


WILLIAMS: No, but I got to say, they are deporting people who have made a misdemeanor for a broken headlight.

GUILFOYLE: No, false, false!

WILLIAMS: This is so wrong and so, damaging to our values as Americans.

GUILFOYLE: You are trying to -


WATTERS: You know how to get the wall built?

GUILFOYLE: Do want to focus on traffic?


HENRY: Focus on the real point, Juan.

HENRY: Seriously, he gets a health care bill and gets the tax cuts. Then the lawmakers up there are going to see momentum. And they are going to actually be scared of the president if they see the popularity poll.

PERINO: If he gets tax cuts, the President will get money for the wall.

HENRY: Until he breaks this log jam, he is not getting the wall.

WILLIAMS: But it is hard for him to break the log jam and in fact --

HENRY: But he is trying one step at a time.

WILLIAMS: No, because he hasn't been efficient on health care, but when it comes to something like tax reform.

HENRY: Hang on. Pass the bill in the house. That is a success, right?




HENRY: As opposed to the bill failing, it passed, so that is a success. Number two, this motion to proceed that you and others scoffed that, he will never get that, he got it.

WILLIAMS: I didn't scoff at that.


GUILFOYLE: You won't acknowledge the fact he got it through in the house.


PERINO: I think let's likely.

WILLIAMS: He calls it a bad bill and then has a party in the Rose Garden and you guys want to call it --

HENRY: I said it in the beginning of the show, I called it a mistake.

WILLIAMS: He said you are wrong.

HENRY: He moved the ball forward is the point. Now the U.S. Senates will debate this despite everyone saying it was dead.

WILLIAMS: Putting humpty-dumpty back together again. The Republicans are totally fragmented to.

HENRY: Go to Arizona and talk to the people who have 120 percent increases in their premiums.

WILLIAMS: All right so let's go to John McCain.

GUILFOYLE: Did he not come back to have this vote. I am sorry read the tea leaves, Juan?

WILLIAMS: your prediction?

GUILFOYLE: My prediction is this will get done. Because there are people have to get it done or they are beat it.

WILLIAMS: They will beat it because they will suffer at the polls if Americans lose medical coverage in order to get President Trump a victory he can crow about.

GUILFOYLE: Not the same. Constituents support the President.


GUILFOYLE: This is a Fox News alert. President Trump has just arrived at joint base Andrew is following his Make America Great Again Rally in Youngstown Ohio. Now, our final thoughts on this busy news night. Ed?

HENRY: Me first.

GUILFOYLE: You are ready to roll.

HENRY: Wow! I am just proud that Watters did not steal anything from me. Previous programs, he hasn't come up with original thoughts so he usually turns to me.

WATTERS: How dare you Henry.


HENRY: That is the truth. I am just happy to be here, because I think it is a lively discussion. I think Juan took some hits.


WATTERS: You think?

GUILFOYLE: Juan is used to. That he has bite marks on his body. He likes it.

HENRY: This was a good day for the President. The emotions that everyone thought was dead around July 4th, they are moving forward on this.

GUILFOYLE: The President and the first lady at joint base Andrews, waving to everybody as he returns to D.C. after his make America great again rally in Youngstown, Ohio.

PERINO: You know what I like? President Obama never held on to the railing when he went down the stairs and it drove me crazy. This is much safer. They are both holding the railing and walking slowly.

GUILFOYLE: Make America safe again.

PERINO: A final thought. Go to, breaking news about a former I.T. staffer from Debbie Wasserman Schultz's office who has questionable things going on with computer equipment that was destroyed and then arrested.

WILLIAMS: She doesn't want to turn it over. And now he is being charge with bank fraud

PERINO: This is my final thought.


Arrested at the airport at Dulles and charged with bank fraud. There is something there and we will try get, more tomorrow.

GUILFOYLE: That is a huge story that needs to be covered -- tremendous national security implications, Jesse?

WATTERS: Dana Perino is actually downplaying the story. They smashed those hardrives with hammers. Be specific about how they destroyed the hard drives.

GUILFOYLE: They got their home depot on.

WILLIAMS: We should ask Ed who famously asked Hillary Clinton about wiping?

HENRY: Wipe the server.

WATTERS: She did with a cloth.

HENRY: Did some staffers use hammers?


WATTERS: There you go. My final thought.

HENRY: Beleaguered.

WILLIAMS: For all of the rose colored glasses. What a wonderful day, it seems to me at some point you have to deal with the idea that President Trump has been unable to solidify a Republican vote behind a health care plan and Obamacare looks safer than ever.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

WATTERS: We will see about that Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Send Juan Williams a whole truck load of (inaudible) for that one.


All right, it's a big night here on the Fox News Channel. "Hannity" is next followed by a live edition of "Special Report with Bret Baier" at 11 p.m. Eastern. We will see you back here tomorrow. Good night from New York City.

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