Sen. Risch reacts to US airstrike on Iranian military leader

This is a rush transcript from "The Story with Martha MacCallum," January 3, 2020. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

Martha MacCallum: So breaking right now, we're getting more news of U.S. airstrikes, additional ones just moments ago and happening just north of Baghdad. This is according to Iraqi officials. The airstrikes were targeting two vehicles carrying Iran-backed Shiite militias. This is said to be a picture from that scene. I want to point out that these are very new pieces of information, and we're sorting it out as we speak. There are reports of at least five people dead and that several others are wounded. We do not know yet who was traveling in those vehicles but we're working on it. We’ll get all that to you as soon as we get some more information. So, all of this exactly 24 hours after a similar drone took out Iran's leader of the revolutionary guard, the Quds force, Qasem Soleimani. President Trump gave that order when provided with what the military termed he was provided with what was called a target of opportunity to do just that. Now, Soleimani almost singularly focused on killing Americans and our allies for nearly two decades. He is Iran's weapon personified in Iraq, in Syria, and all over the Middle East, a man who by all indications considered himself to be untouchable. He made no attempts to conceal his locations. He often tweeted selfies from the frontlines in a clear attempt to rally his troops and to taunt his adversaries at every turn. His boss, Iran's supreme leader, even goaded President Trump earlier in the week saying, "You can't do a damn thing." So, the killing at the Baghdad airport last night led to responses like this from the former envoy and the advisor to President's Obama and Trump on Iraq and Iran, Brett McGurk. Watch this.

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Brett McGurk: We need to presume that we are in a state of war with Iran. This has been a covert war, a shadow war, for four years but with this action I think we need to presume, to protect our people in the region, to protect our interests, that we're in a state of war with Iran and that is not something that the Trump administration appears to have been prepared for.

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Martha MacCallum: Well, we'll see. So, I mean, in reality Iran has been at war with us and with our allies for some time and it escalated in very specific dramatic ways over the last 18 months. You had attacks on oil tankers, the taking of hostages, attacks on Saudi oil fields, and now the killing of an American contractor and an attack on our U.S. embassy, which is sovereign United States soil in Iraq. So clearly there was reasons for where we ended up last night. Still, one pundit incongruently put it this way. Watch.

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Male Speaker: Let's just say maybe it was the right decision to take him out, but you have in that case, right decision wrong commander in chief. So, you need somebody at the helm who can navigate skillfully an extraordinarily complex set of events that he has now set in motion.

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Martha MacCallum: But the facts remain that this president took that action to kill Soleimani. Other presidents, for their own reasons, chose not to do that but President Trump had said from day one that he would put America and the interests of America first and right now this action, regardless of what you think about it, you can't argue the fact that it was decisive. So, what happens next for America and Iran? We start tonight with Senator James Risch, chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee. General Jack Keane is standing by for more on this. Plus, tonight Iranian activist Masih Alinejad here with her reaction to what happens next in her country where the leadership is currently holding her brother and Guy Benson is here tonight. Chris Hahn is here tonight on Joe Biden's curious response to a question about the bin Laden raid on the campaign trail today and more of what he said and Bloomberg said about all of this. So, first up this evening Senator Risch who was briefed by the Trump administration a short time ago on this strike. Senator Risch, good to see you tonight. Thank you very much, chairman, for being here.

James Risch: Thank you. Thank you for having me, Martha.

Martha MacCallum: So, do you know anything more about this attack that we mentioned at the very top of the show, which as I said the developments, the news is just coming in? It looks like there's been yet another attack on vehicles holding some of these Iranian officials.

James Risch: You know, Martha, I do. I'm really not comfortable until they actually declassify what they're going to declassify to comment on it. The news came about 20 -- was released about 24 minutes ago. The actual attack took place about an hour and 45 minutes ago. But it -- look, we -- the president acted on very specific information that he had that came from the intelligence agencies. That information was rock solid. It's good information. I can't imagine us having this interview if the president had not acted on it and indeed Soleimani would've been able to complete the attacks that he had in mind and was attempting to pursue and Americans would've gotten killed and then the Democrats say well, the president knew about this and didn't do anything about it.

Martha MacCallum: Absolutely.

James Risch: They'd be in -- it would be stunning but this -- look, this president hates doing this sort of thing. He doesn't like doing kinetic attacks but put in the position that he's been placed in with this, plus with the information that we had, he did what he had to do and we hope the Iranians will step back, take a breath, and understand that they have been escalating this for a long time.

Martha MacCallum: Well, and that's clear. I mean, we pointed that out with just the reminder at the top of the show of the escalating attacks that have happened on oil interests of our allies and then on an American citizen and on the U.S. embassy. It makes it pretty hard to understand how you could not have some sort of retaliation. But let me just go back and ask you one more question about these attacks, the additional attacks that we're seeing tonight because what we've heard is that there were -- that there were plans underway to attack U.S. interests and that that's what prompted the hit on Soleimani that killed him last night at the Baghdad airport. So, the question was, you know, who replaces him? Are the attacks still going to be carried out? Or even escalated in response to his death? So, the attacks that we just saw about an hour and 40 minutes or so ago, do they -- were they aimed at some of these individuals who may have continued to carry out these attacks?

James Risch: You know, Martha, again, I've been briefed on this, but I don't want to be the one that releases this. I think the question of the declassification of how this came about really should be with the president and with the national security council.

Martha MacCallum: Okay. Do you -- well, just one last question on it. Do you think --

James Risch: It doesn't --

Martha MacCallum: --- that makes -- are Americans safer because of this second attack?

James Risch: I don't think there's any question about that. Look, it doesn't take a lot of imagination when we watch what's unfolded over the last 24 hours to understand how this is going to -- how they're going to pursue this to continue to make Americans safer in the job that they have to do overseas.

Martha MacCallum: So, you know, I just want to hit on a little bit of what was in the introduction with regard to the reaction in some media circles to what happened and I thought it was pretty striking to hear Jonathan Alter say, you know, it was the right move but the wrong president. What do you -- what's your reaction to that?

James Risch: Well, Martha, you know you operate in the same bubble I do back there. I mean, the hate and the vitriol amongst most of the Democrats, and for that matter, some, some not all of the national media, there's no bounds to this. I mean, they are deranged when it comes to the president and can't give him credit for anything. A good example of that is the economy. I mean, we're coming off the best year in 50 years and you never hear them acknowledge that President Trump is -- has given this to the American people.

Martha MacCallum: But you know, I know you said back in June that the president considered an attack after the attack on the Saudi oil facilities and that he agonized over that. So, the suggestion I think here, you know, that it's the right act wrong president is that he won't be able to do what's necessary next or that he doesn't have a strategy for what happens next. So, just a quick thought before I let you go on that.

James Risch: Sure. Look, there is a very, very clear strategy of going forward. This message is a clear message to Iran that this escalation that they're doing perhaps on the belief that America is weak, perhaps on the belief that this president is weak, simply because he took what I considered very reasonable forbearance on some of the things that have happened previously the Iranians have been mistaken. They miscalculated as they're notorious for doing. And one would hope they'll step back, take a breath and realize that if they escalate, they're going to be very, very sorry if they do that.

Martha MacCallum: Well, the president and the secretary of state both said that this was not designed to create war or to escalate war, but to mitigate what's going on between our countries. Thank you very much, Chairman Risch. Very good to have you here tonight.

James Risch: Thank you, Martha.

Martha MacCallum: Thank you, sir.

James Risch: Thank you for having me.

Martha MacCallum: General Jack Keane is also with us this evening, chairman of the Institute for the Study of War and Fox News senior strategic analyst. General, good to see you this evening. Thank you for being here. You know, I want to start with this. This is a soundbite from the former CIA director, Mike Morrell. Here's what he said about what we can all expect now. Watch.

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Mike Morrell: The problem is that comes at a very high cost. Number one, there will be dead Americans, dead civilian Americans as a result of this, possibly over the next few days in any place where Iran has its proxies. Iraq is the most likely place but also Lebanon, Bahrain, other places in the Middle East.

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Martha MacCallum: General, do you agree with that?

Jack Keane: Well, I think the Iranians are going to retaliate, that's for sure. I mean, they as much stated it. What's going on with the Iranians, so our viewers can understand, this civil unrest driven by the sanctions has really got the Iranians back on their heels. It's spiked in November, and there is nothing more threatening to their regime than their own people. And that's what has got their concern, and they're determined to create as much crisis as they can for the international community to put pressure on President Trump to back off the sanctions. And that is why, as you mentioned in the introduction with a former previous guest, why they have been escalating military actions to create that crisis, to pressure the president. But the problem is, they crossed a red line with this president when he exercised enormous constraint in not taking a provocation but said don't kill any Americans. And when they did, he acted and acted very strongly as we've seen.

Martha MacCallum: You know, the suggestion that there's no strategy is one that you hear a lot. We started hearing it last night and all through today, but it strikes me that it was obvious that in the prior administration, the strategy was to to negotiate, to deal and to try to create an environment that deescalated through that avenue. But clearly, this president has a different way of going about it, and as I said at the top, he is the first one to take out Soleimani, which is something that was probably opportunities that these other presidents, President Obama, President Bush had I would imagine.

Jack Keane: It is a definite strategy here. This Trump administration looked at the appeasement strategy, as I would define it, that President Obama exercised for eight years as a seminal foreign policy objective. It was his Nixon moment going to China, so to speak, is what he was trying to achieve, and he thought by appeasing the Iranians -- a nuclear deal with the centerpiece of it -- that they would act responsibly and join the community of responsible nations, and what did we get? We got 130 billion dollars put in their hands, fueling the civil wars in Syria and Yemen, hundreds of thousands of rockets in Lebanon. The Middle East was put on fire, and as a result of it, this administration came in and fundamentally rejected that strategy, and with our allies, definitely has a strategy. And it's to confront the Iranians using diplomatic and economic means to bring them back to the negotiating table -- not just to stop nuclear weapons and missiles, but to curb their behavior in the region. That is a sound strategy, and that's what this administration is about. And to say they don't have one is nonsense.

Martha MacCallum: Well, we're going to have to leave it there, but we know that we have -- our military is on alert in Italy for the possibility of potentially going in to protect our assets and embassies in Lebanon. And as you say, retaliation is likely, and we'll be watching.

Jack Keane: Well, they're going to go in there in the event there has to be an evacuation and pressure is put. 173rd would go to Lebanon, evacuate the embassy, and the 82nd would go to Baghdad to evacuate the embassy. That's primarily what they're there for.

Martha MacCallum: All right. General Keane, we'll be talking to you today and in the coming days. Thank you so much, sir. Good to see you tonight. We are following a breaking news story of more U.S. airstrikes this evening in Iraq. A little over an hour ago, we got this information, and we're going to update it for you throughout the program this evening. Also, tonight, can Soleimani's killing leverage what protesters in Iran have been fighting for -- the end of the religious dictatorship in Iran? Could that be possible with this catalyst? Joining me, Masih Alinejad. Coming up next.

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Donald Trump: Qasem Soleimani has been killed, and his bloody rampage is now forever gone. He was planning a very major attack, and we got him.

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Marth MacCallum: That was earlier today in Florida. Major General Qasem Soleimani's role in Middle Eastern affairs was vast, indispensable really to the Iranian regime. He has been the long military arm of Iran, in Syria, in Iraq and Afghanistan, in Lebanon and beyond. Chief breaking news correspondent Trace Gallagher has the backstory on him. Watch.

Trace Gallagher: Martha, even when Osama bin Laden and Abu Bakar al-Baghdadi were still around, General Qasem Soleimani was regarded as among the most powerful operatives in the Middle East, and next to Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Harmony, Soleimani is arguably the most powerful figure inside Iran. But the general's power extended well beyond the borders of the Islamic Republic. Soleimani is the head of Iran's military abroad, known as Quds, and it was Quds that armed and trained Iraqi Shiite militias that killed hundreds of U.S. troops in Iraq. In fact, the exact number of Americans killed, according to the State Department, is 608. Seventeen percent of all deaths of U.S. personnel in Iraq between 2003 and 2011 were orchestrated by Qasem Soleimani. Today, President Trump said Soleimani made the death of innocent people his sick passion. Watch.

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Donald Trump: We take comfort in knowing that his reign of terror is over. Soleimani has been perpetrating acts of terror to destabilize the Middle East for the last 20 years.

Trace Gallagher: Most of Soleimani operations were convert. Many were not. It has long been known that Soleimani was the architect of Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad's civil war in Syria and many experts believe that if not for the Iranian general the Syrian rebels would have controlled the country within months after the war began. Soleimani is also thought to have given arms and training to Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories. GOP Senator Lindsey Graham says in the end Soleimani made a key miscalculation. Look.

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Lindsey Graham: All the things that Soleimani had done in the past were real but he's not dead today because of what he did in the past. He's dead today because he miscalculated what President Trump would do regarding future attacks. [end video clip]

Trace Gallagher: For some Iranians Qasem Soleimani was revered as a national hero. For many others he was the most vicious criminal in Iran's history. Martha.

Martha MacCallum: Thank you, Trace. Joining me now Iranian activist Masih Alinejad, author of, "The Wind in My Hair: My Fight for Freedom in Modern Iran." Masih, welcome back to the program. Good to have you here tonight. What are you hearing from people on the ground about their reaction to this?

Masih Alinejad: First of all, I have to say that Qasem Soleimani brought death upon himself by killing other people in Syria, in Iraq, in Lebanon, and most importantly, he is in charge as a head of revolutionary guard to kill, you know, 1,500 protestors in recent protests and years and years. That is why a lot of people inside Iran, many of them, do not see him as a hero, say you know, the reporter mentioned here or other media broadcasting call that he was a hero for Iranians. This is wrong because Iranian people do -- have been witnessing killings, tortures. You know, their beloved one being killed, shot in the head and chest and they never had a chance to mourn for them. Last time I mention about Pouya Bakhtiari the symbol of Iranian protestors who got killed, his parents called for a public service. What happened they have been interrogated for three hours to cancel the public service. They refused and they got arrested. Right now, the parents are in prison, and I am sure many victims inside Iran if you ask them they are happy.

Martha MacCallum: So, the protests died down somewhat because they were cracked down on so dramatically and as you say the estimate is 1,500 people were killed really by the revolutionary guard, by Soleimani. So, the people in Iran who have protested, you know, obviously are -- they've been devastated by that. So, what happens now to the protestors? Does this revive their spirit?

Masih Alinejad: To be honest, for many Iranians who I am in touch with them, that was a hope that, you know, they were begging for justice, crying for justice. Nothing happened. And actually, Islamic Republic built him up as a nationalistic hero to use for international and domestic purpose. So, that is why today when Iranian state television showing the rest of the world that people are mourning in the street that was a big lie because Iranian protestors are in prison and if you want to give the truth just go to the family of the victims.

Martha MacCallum: I got to go, but I want a quick answer here if you can. What do you think President Trump needs to do next?

Masih Alinejad: Now, I always says that. Not only President Trump. We want the EU. We want all the politicians to join and, you know, understand that these are criminals. These are terrorists and I want to actually say that. It's not only the U.S., you know, calling Qasem Soleimani a terrorist. United Nations 13 years ago designated him as a terrorist and EU five years ago designating Qasem Soleimani as a terrorist and right now I want the rest of the [indiscernible] to understand.

Martha MacCallum: So, there should be no discussion about him being anything other than that with all of those world bodies agreeing. But the action's been taken now by President Trump last night. Good to see you, Masih. Thank you very much.

Masih Alinejad: Thank you so much for having me.

Martha MacCallum: All the best to you. We’ll see you soon. Coming up next, a history question. When was the last time the United States took an action like this against a top military commander and what was the response in this country then? Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger is up next.

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Martha MacCallum: Democrats slamming President Trump today over the decision to strike against Soleimani without their permission. So, with this attack Soleimani becomes the highest ranking foreign military commander taken out by the United States since 1943. Back then an airplane that was carrying Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, the mastermind behind the attack on Pearl Harbor, was shot down. The United States got valuable intelligence about the plan and the itinerary for Yamamoto's day as he was visiting some of the islands during World War II. They tracked his plane, shot him down, and he was killed. It was a monumental blow to the Japanese. Obviously, we had declared war on Japan. We were in the middle of World War II. So, are we at war with Iran and what's to be made of that argument either way? Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger is a member of the foreign affairs committee and serves as an international guard major. Good to see you, congressman. Thank you for being here tonight.

Adam Kinzinger: Good to see you. Thanks.

Martha MacCallum: So, you know, that's the -- I thought of that this morning as, you know, I was reading through all of this. I thought, “When have we done this before?” and I thought of Yamamoto in World War II being shot down. Are these parallel situations? Both of them have a lot of blood of American military servicemen on their hands.

Adam Kinzinger: Yeah. I agree and, you know, to all the people that say, you know, this is going to open the vault basically to all these assassinations. He's a legitimate military target. He's gone after many Americans. He's organized a lot of insurrections in the Middle East. There's half a million dead Syrians directly as a result of him, and what I always think is amazing is, you know, when President Trump, for instance, says something harsh about Iran, people say, "Well, his rhetoric is going to stir everything up. When the Iranians come back and say, "We're going to attack the United States because of what just happened." They're almost looked at sympathetically as like, well, of course, they're go into their top general was just killed, and the reality of it is we have to be focused on protecting the American people doing the right thing, this was a right move. There may be some escalation, but this was the very first time we've directly responded to Iran after 40 years and especially in the last two years of provocation against us.

Martha MacCallum: Now, here is Senator Chris Murphy responding to this action by the Trump administration. Watch.

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Chris Murphy: Maybe it had the effect in the short run of preventing this attack. Maybe there were other ways to prevent this attack through military action other than assassination.

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Martha MacCallum: He's calling it assassination, murder of a foreign leader.

Adam Kinzinger: Again, Soleimani is a military guy. That's very different than if it was a president -- an elected or a dictator president. There's different factions with that. But the other thing is, so if there's other military ways to handle this, that could lead to 50 deaths or 100 deaths, let's say you take out a bunch of surface to air radar sites. There will be a lot of people manning those. This is death of one very evil man versus what would be the damage, frankly, to military members in Iran or civilians. This was the right move, and again, we don't know what all is going to happen next, but what we do know is in the past, if you look at the history of Iran and all the provocations and all the attacks they've done, we've done nothing to provoke them militarily, and yet they've continued to attack our allies and our people. And we finally responded, and we responded in a big way. And it's up to them if they want to escalate, we can match that. We certainly hope they don't.

Martha MacCallum: I mean, there's been a lot of discussion about other foreign leaders, you know, and the alliances being forged between Iran and China and Russia. Discussions between these countries. You have to wonder what someone like Assad or other dictators think when they take a look at what happened to Soleimani. What do you think the impact is of that?

Adam Kinzinger: I think it's massive. I think whether it's Kim Jong Un, whether it's Assad or Putin or anybody else, seeing the president saying, I'm going to set down my red lines." His red line was going after the American people, hurting an American, and "I'm going to enforce it." You know that you don't cross red lines now. I think this was a frankly, a brilliant move to do this. Again, we don't know what the future holds. We're more than prepared to deal with it, but the message it sends is America's back don't mess with us. And I think over the last few years, we've lost that feeling around the world, and it's important to have it back for global stability. Because if it's not us, it's somebody else leading the world, and it's not who you want it to be.

Martha MacCallum: Congressman Kinzinger, thank you. Good to see you, sir.

Adam Kinzinger: You bet you too.

Martha MacCallum: Thank you very much. Coming up, Sergeant Robert Bartlett's life changed forever when he was hit in Iraq by an Iranian made IED. Since then, he's spent years sounding the alarm on the acts of Qasem Soleimani. Tonight, he responds for the first time to the terror leader's death.

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Robert Bartlett: Soleimani, that's all he wants to do is kill Americans, kill Israelis, so, of course, you have any kind of enablement to that country and that regime, that current regime, is just treason. I got no other word. You know, I hate to use it, but I can't see it any other way. It's treason. If I did anything relatively close to that, I would be held for treason.

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Martha MacCallum: Speaking out against the Iranian general has been a very personal mission for retired Staff Sergeant Robert Bartlett. In 2005, he was serving in Iraq when an Iranian made bomb left him severely injured, burned and blind in one eye. Since then, Sergeant Bartlett has spoken out against the Iran nuclear deal and how it sanctions relief provided Soleimani with funding and cover to carry out terrorism. Sergeant Bartlett joins me now. He's an Army veteran and adviser to United Against A Nuclear Iran. Sergeant, good to see you again tonight. Thank you very much for being here.

Robert Bartlett: Good to see you. Happy New Year.

Martha MacCallum: So, happy New Year to you. You know, this is a fight that you have waged for some time to cut off the funding to this General Soleimani. What was your reaction last night or this morning when you first heard?

Robert Bartlett: We instantly turned Fox News on, and I just was blown away. Somebody reached out to me, and I just was thinking about all my friends who had died at the hands of the Iranians. And, to be honest with you, I had a cigar and a whiskey. A celebration.

Martha MacCallum: A celebration, right?

Robert Bartlett: That's right.

Martha MacCallum: You know, when you listen to the reaction today, you know, what goes through your mind when you hear people say that, you know, this is going to provoke an escalation that could be very dangerous for our members of our military at bases in the Middle East and around the world?

Robert Bartlett: I'd say it's retribution for guys like this. Sergeant First Class Brian Mancini dead at the hands of the Iranian past his injuries. Sergeant William J. Brooks. Corporal Bishop. Robert Sudham. All these guys and their friends and, you know, have died at the hands of the Iranians in this current regime and some to the Quds Force, and Soleimani and his hands. So for us, it's retribution, but it's finally policies that make sense and protecting the United States and its citizens especially its military who serve in these conflicts.

Martha MacCallum: You know, there was a lot of criticism in some corners this morning of President Trump saying that he had sort of, you know, taken an action without a strategy, that he won't know how to follow up, you know, how to make the next move here. What do you say to that?

Robert Bartlett: I say we need to send a message. They've been sending us a message for years that they're at war with us. We've done nothing. We've sent them money. That didn't work. We tried to buy them morality. That didn't work. We sent policies out, put sanctions on them. Not at the level that they're at now but none of those things worked. So, how many times you got to figure -- stick your finger in the light socket before you realize that it shocks you, you know?

Martha MacCallum: Do you think, you know, I was talking to Masih Alinejad who's an activist, an Iranian activist who lives in the United States and supports the protestors there, do you think that this ultimately has the potential to provoke real change or even the fall of this Islamic regime that is in control in Iran?

Robert Bartlett: I think you have the strength of the people there and the courage to fight back. There's plenty of good Iranians. There's plenty of good people everywhere. Yeah, to just get rid of this regime would be wonderful if we can do that and if we can support those locally who are willing to live in today's society without terrorism that's great.

Martha MacCallum: Sergeant Bartlett.

Robert Bartlett: I hope it happens.

Martha MacCallum: Thank you for being here tonight and thank you for helping us remember those individuals whose pictures you brought with you this evening. We'll keep them in mind and in our hearts as well tonight. Thank you, sir.

Robert Bartlett: Thank you. God bless you.

Martha MacCallum: God bless you as well. Good to see you again. So, we do have some new details now coming in on the second airstrike that happened tonight. It hit two cars carrying Iran-backed militias and we're going to give you a live report on the very latest information coming into Fox News tonight right after this. Stay with us on The Story.

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Martha MacCallum: Breaking tonight. Brand new information on the second round of airstrikes in Iraq just 24 hours after the top Iranian general, Qassem Soleimani was killed in a U.S. drone attack. Fox News correspondent Gillian Turner is following this breaking story for us this evening from our Washington bureau. Good evening, Gillian.

Gillian Turner: Hi. Good evening, Martha. So, breaking tonight an Iraqi official telling the Associated Press an airstrike has hit two vehicles, both carrying Iran-backed militia fighters and killing five people just north of Baghdad. Fox News has yet to independently verify this incident, Martha. Reporting is still very fluid this hour but as of a few minutes ago one U.S. official now saying it was not a U.S. airstrike. This incident comes just a day after the death of Soleimani and the Trump administration now bracing for potential reprisal attacks, including cyberwarfare. The Iranian regime's had what the U.S. considers to be advanced cyber capabilities for about 10 years now. They've gone after U.S. interests in cyberspace before. They maintain the capability to do so again. Secretary of state Mike Pompeo warned about this earlier today. Take a listen.

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Mike Pompeo: There's always risk. Cyberattacks. Iranians have a deep and complex cyber capability to be sure. Know that we've certainly considered that risk. Your point about risk here in the United States is real, too.

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Gillian Turner: We've reported in the past about Iran's designs on U.S. infrastructure and their ultimate goal, which is carrying out cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid, banks, and even classified U.S. government computer systems. But now lawmakers, both sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats ringing alarm bells about a potential cyber conflict. Republicans claim anything Iran can do the U.S. can do better.

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Male Speaker: Well, Iran's got a very sophisticated cyber capability and so does the United States. So, the proportionate response, whether it's on any interest in the Middle East or in the cyber domain, needs to be definitive and appropriate. [end video clip]

Gillian Turner: Democrats, though, say cyber conflict is now a sure bet.

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Male Speaker: We need to have a plan. If we are committed to de-escalation, we have to have a plan because a cyberattack is inevitable. An attack on an embassy virtually inevitable.

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Gillian Turner: Iran cyberwarfare hasn't been limited to the U.S. either. Government actors have in the past, Martha, been linked to cyberattacks on Israel, the U.K., and even Turkey. Martha.

Martha MacCallum: Gillian Turner, thank you very much from Washington tonight.

Gillian Turner: You bet.

Martha MacCallum: Thank you. So, Joe Biden today responding to the strike that took out Soleimani by calling President Trump "erratic, unstable, and dangerously incompetent," but what happens when he is pressed on his own record on foreign policy? Debate coming up next.

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Peter Doocy: Would you pull the trigger?

Joe Biden: Well, we did. The guy's name is Osama bin Laden.  Peter Doocy: And weren't you -- didn't you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?

Joe Biden: No, I didn't. I didn’t.

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Martha MacCallum: Candidate for president Joe Biden blasting President Trump today over his decision to strike at Iran's top general. Watch this.

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Joe Biden: This is and was an enormous escalation and follows a string of dubious actions that President Trump has taken that would drastically increase the prospects and the risk of war with Iran and danger to Americans.

[end video clip]

Martha MacCallum: But no doubt if Joe Biden becomes the nominee, his record and President Trump's record will be debated, and he has received some criticism on his record on foreign policy. In 2014, former secretary of defense under President Obama, Robert Gates, said of Joe Biden quote, "I think he's been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades." One of the most famous examples in 2012 when Biden told ABC News that he was opposed to the 2011 raid that killed Osama bin Laden. He told President Obama then, quote, "Mr. President, my suggestion is don't go." When he was asked about that today by Fox News' Peter Doocy, the former vice president said the opposite. Watch.

[begin video clip]

Peter Doocy: If you were ever handed a piece of intelligence that said you could stop an imminent attack on Americans, but you have to use an airstrike to take out a terror leader, would you pull the trigger?

Joe Biden: Well, we did. The guy's name was Osama bin Laden.

Peter Doocy: And weren't you -- didn't you tell President Obama not to go after Bin Laden?

Joe Biden: No, I didn't. I didn't.

[end video clip]

Martha MacCallum: Confusing. So here now, Guy Benson, host of The Guy Benson Show and a Fox News contributor, and Chris Hahn, former aide to Senator Chuck Schumer, now a syndicated radio host. So, let me start with you, Chris. You know, I mean, obviously, as I said, if these two individuals end up running against each other, they're going to be judged by the American people on what they would do in moments like the moment that we had last night. So, what do you think about Joe Biden's response now that is a little bit of rewriting history?

Chris Hahn: I think Joe Biden knows what happened in that room, and quite frankly, he has the experience of being in that room when that happened, which I think is very important for someone who wants to be president of the United States. The experience is invaluable, and this president never had that experience which is probably why he--

Martha MacCallum: Well why didn't he just say that Chris? He could've said I recommended not to go in but, you know, I was part of that administration and the administration. I mean, but why-- you can't contradict yourself like that.

Chris Hahn: I wasn't in the room. You weren't in the room. He was in the room.

Martha MacCallum: Well, I only know what he said himself.

Chris Hahn: I'm wondering why the president--

Martha MacCallum: He said, "I told him not to go." It's been pretty well documented.

Chris Hahn: Well there you go, but you know what? The experience matters, and that experience would've led him to get his allies on board, to inform Congress, to make sure he had the proper legal authorization. I'm not saying that this man should be alive forever, this Soleimani guy. I'm not saying he was a good person, but we should have done the right thing by our allies. We should make sure that they were protected and on board, and I'm worried that we're going in here without a plan, and that's the problem we have right now.

Martha MacCallum: Well, my guess is--

Chris Hahn: What comes next I don't think the president knows himself well.

Martha MacCallum: My guess is that if we hadn't taken this action, Guy, and we saw the effects of this imminent attack, that we have intelligence that points to the direction that it was planned, that the president would be criticized for not doing what he did last night.

Guy Benson: That's right. You wonder how many Americans have to die before something was done about this man to take him out, but Chris was mentioning the experience of Joe Biden, all that rich experience. The problem is what if that experience shows that over and over again, he was wrong? I mean, we are very fortunate that President Obama ignored Joe Biden's advice. According to Joe Biden, before like yesterday or earlier today, that he said, "No, don't go take out bin Laden in that Abbottabad raid in Pakistan a number of years ago.".  And I'm not someone who's going to come on national television and pretend like I'm a perfect expert on foreign policy. I'm not. But I think a man who two presidents saw fit to make their defense secretary, a president from each party, Robert Gates, who you quoted earlier, Martha, when he goes through and looks at the record and writes in his book that Joe Biden has been wrong about nearly every major consequential foreign policy decision in the last 40 years, I think we should sit up and pay attention to that, and when Gates was asked about it, a follow up, he said, "I stand by that assessment." So, maybe if Biden is critical of President Trump on this issue, history may suggest that President Trump is exactly right.

Martha MacCallum: Right. Well, it will raise the question, you know, on the Democrat side. Chris, I have a question for you. Who you know, who's the best in terms of foreign policy? Right? And I thought it's very interesting that when Mike Bloomberg was asked about the raid last night, here's what he said.

[begin video clip]

Male Speaker: Are government officials from the United States adversaries fair game?

Michael Bloomberg: Well, they did try to attack our government officials, and the terrorism around the world is just unbelievably destructive. And the number of people being killed is just horrendous, and we've got to say no more.

[end video clip]

Martha MacCallum: He sounds to me like he was saying, you know, that the president did the right thing in so many words.

Chris Hahn: Well, no, what he's saying is that if you have a government official who's engaged in these kind of acts, you've got to do it. But you've got to do it in a way that is consistent with our guard rails that we put in place. We have allies --

Martha MacCallum: Chris, you know as well as I do that every president has -- every president has the right to take the action to protect American interests abroad. That is absolutely what the president did. Now, you can argue over whether it was a mistake or not --

Chris Hahn: The president does not declare war. Congress does.

Martha MacCallum: We all understand the War Powers Act. We all understand that the president has absolutely the legal right to take action when it is in the interest of protecting American assets abroad. So, you would have preferred if he allowed this plan to go forward that was said to have attack plans in Iraq, in Lebanon and Europe? You think he should have just said, "Well, let's just see what happens?"

Chris Hahn: No. Look, I'm dubious on the fact that he did not consult Congress. If he had real evidence, he would have consulted Congress. He did not do that. He would have at least talked to --

Guy Benson: Evidence or what?

Martha MacCallum: Presidents do need to be decisive.

Chris Hahn: Obama did that before -- Obama did that before he he took out bin Laden. This president could have done this, too. I don't understand why he didn't. I want to see the evidence. Guy, you should agree with me. You should want to see the evidence as well.

Martha MacCallum: We've got to go.

Guy Benson: Evidence of what? This man killed 600 Americans. We know this.

Chris Hahn: Yeah. Got it. There was imminent --

Martha MacCallum: Guys I got to go. I got to turn it over to Tucker in a couple seconds. Thank you very much. We'll pick it up. That's the story for today, Friday, January 3. Tucker's up next.

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