Kennedy on Kavanaugh: I am embarrassed for the Senate
Senate Judiciary Committee member says lawmakers need to 'grow some guts' and cast the Kavanaugh vote. On 'The Story,' Sen. Kennedy accuses Democrats of 'gamesmanship.'
This is a rush transcript from "The Story," October 1, 2018. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MARTHA MACCALLUM, HOST: So, breaking tonight, Senate sources now saying that they believe there will be a vote this week.
The FBI investigation of Brett Kavanaugh could be wrapped up as early as tomorrow. We are now learning with Democrats already slamming the probe as inadequate. Good evening, everybody. I'm Martha MacCallum. The president says that he is not micromanaging this process.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: This is the seventh investigation of Judge Kavanaugh. Number seven. This isn't number one. They started on Friday. They worked all weekend. They've gone late into the evenings. The FBI is really working hard. And they're putting in a lot of hours. So, hopefully, they can come up with what everybody is looking for.
I'm not concerned now, no, you know what I'm concerned? That we get great, great people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: This is riveting, continues to be. And we've got a big lineup tonight to digest all of this. Senate Judiciary member John Kennedy is standing by. And Judge Andrew Napolitano. But we begin tonight with Chief National Correspondent Ed Henry who joins us now live from the White House. Good evening, Ed.
ED HENRY, FOX NEWS CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Martha, great to see you. First Monday in October. That means, Supreme Court opened its new term today, but only eight justices.
Well, Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, revealed late this afternoon, he will have an up or down vote later this week to determine whether or not Judge Brett Kavanaugh will be the ninth Justice to go to the court and fill it up.
That will be determined largely by this FBI investigation that you heard from the president is very much underway. They were working late at night through the weekend to get it done.
And he says, the president, he's not putting any restrictions on it despite reports over the weekend to the contrary. In fact, we just learned Kavanaugh friend, Mark Judge, has talked to the FBI through his lawyer. His lawyer says he is -- the FBI has not finished it yet though. So, maybe they have more questions for Mark Judge.
Remember, a deadline of Friday was set not by the president but by the Senators who cut that deal. Republican Jeff Flake, Democrat Chris Coons, a one-week probe by the FBI to focus on what was said to be current incredible allegations like the charge from Dr. Christine Ford, not necessarily new ones.
But, Coons cracked the door open to expanding this by saying in interviews, he can't control what new allegations may pop up. Sure enough, other unverified charges are popping up.
A Washington Post story quoting a former Yale classmate is claiming Kavanaugh was a violent drunk. The White House tonight putting out statements from other classmates saying that's not true.
MSNBC airing an interview with Julie Swetnick who claims there were gang rapes in high school. Even though NBC itself says tonight, they could not corroborate this information with anyone else.
All of this coming as Mitch McConnell charged that Democrats are going to try to drag this FBI probe out beyond Friday. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY., SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: After it runs its course in the next few days, we will then be treated to a lecture, a lecture. That anything short of a totally unbounded fishing expedition of indefinite duration is too limited or too arbitrary. It can practically hear the sounds of the Democrats moving the goalposts.
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, D-CONN., SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: The White House seems to be micromanaging and straight-jacketing an investigation that must uncover the facts and evidence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: That was Democrat Richard Blumenthal. Remember, he got a tongue lashing in the Rose Garden today from the president who said he lied loom about it, about his Vietnam War record. The president says, he hasn't put the FBI investigation a straitjacket.
And the president also said there are other unnamed Democrats he's seen in compromising positions suggesting that they had been inebriated. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: My White House will do whatever the Senators want. What they're doing to this man and his family is very, very sad and very bad for our nation. Look at Blumenthal. He lied about Vietnam. He didn't just say, "Hey, I went to Vietnam." No, no.
For 15 years he said he was a war hero, and he's up there saying, "We need honesty and we need integrity." I know them. I know them too well. And you know what? They are not angels.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could you tell us who and exactly what situation (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: No, no. I think I'll save it for a book like everybody else, in a writing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Then, there's Arizona prosecutor Rachel Mitchell, of course, helped the Republican Senators ask questions at last Thursday's hearing. She's now put together a memo for Republican Senators who says that this basically is the he-said, she-said. And that there is simply several holes in Christine Ford's story. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Ed, thank you very much. Joining me now, Louisiana Senator John Kennedy, who you saw throughout the course of all of this last week. Sitting up there on the dais with the Judiciary Committee. And he says that he believes Judge Kavanaugh denial. And he plans to vote for him. Senator, thank you very much. Good to have you here this evening.
So, tell me a little bit about your reaction to the latest because as we all knew if there was a week-long delay there was likely to be new information.
And tonight, we have this interview that was done with Julie Swetnick and where she was asked about the charge of gang rape that she says was happened to her at a party that she was at. And she claims that she saw those -- she saw Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh standing on line at similar parties.
And you asked directly about this during that -- during the hearing. So, let's play with Julie Swetnick had to say. And I would like your reaction. Senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE SWETNICK, ACCUSER TO BRETT KAVANAUGH: What happened to me is probably the most horrendous, awful thing that could happen to any human being.
I cannot specifically say that he was one of the ones who assaulted me. I saw him around the punch. I won't say bowls or the punch containers. I don't know what he did, but I saw him by them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Your reaction, Senator.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY, R-LA., SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: This entire thing makes me want to heave. If you think this is about searching for the truth, you ought to put down the bomb. This is not about the truth. This is about gamesmanship and power, political, politics. It's just that simple.
Miss Swetnick, ha's no corroboration. She says that she attended 10 gang rapes at which Judge Kavanaugh was supposedly involved. She didn't report any of them. She is represented by Mr. Avenatti who has done his did level best to make all of this about Mr. Avenatti.
I don't think anybody in the Milky Way could be surprised that the Democrats are yet again moving the goalposts. There is nothing we can do to get our Democratic friends to consider voting for Judge Kavanaugh.
The only way to make them happy is to pull him down and I guess dig up Bill Douglas and nominate him. And anybody else who thinks otherwise is just -- is just kidding themselves. Look, this is what the Democratic -- Democrats say, they say that Brett Kavanaugh is a rich, drunk, lying, sexual predator. He's been through six FBI background checks, each of which is a cross between an endoscopy and a colonoscopy. And none of this turn -- was turned up.
Now, he's going through the seventh one which the Democrats demanded. And we're not even halfway through probably. And now they're unhappy with that. Give me a break. I mean, I think the American -- the people up here in Washington, the cosmopolitan culture crowd, they think the American people are stupid.
The American people have figured this out regardless of what they think about Judge Kavanaugh. They figure this out.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Well, let me -- I'm curious what you think because -- you know, I know that you think that the votes can happen this week.
KENNEDY: I do.
MACCALLUM: And we have heard that they are going through these investigations fairly quickly from the pace that appears to be happening. What do you think, Senator Manchin will do? What do you think your fellow Senators will do? What do you think Senator Donnelly will do when it comes down to an actual vote?
KENNEDY: I don't know. But it's time for Senators to be Senators and to grow some guts. And the woman up, are man up and cast the vote. And the longer we wait, the more allegations are going to come out. Now, there's a professor down in North Carolina -- at North Carolina State. He says that Judge Kavanaugh drank to access. Some of his other classmates, said he didn't. Keep in mind, this was 40 years ago.
MACCALLUM: Yes. Let me just play that. We have that, and it's a quick thought. Let's take a listen to it so that everybody knows what you're referring to.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAD LUDINGTON, PROFESSOR, NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY: -- his past actions on national television and more especially while speaking under oath in front of the United States Senate. I believe those lives should have consequences.
It is truth that is at stake and I believe that the ability to speak the truth, even when it does not reflect well upon oneself is a paramount quality we seek in our nation's most powerful judges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you never saw him passed out?
LUDINGTON: I never saw him passed out, but I saw him quite drunk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Well, there you have it.
KENNEDY: I'm going to stand by. I'm going to stand by what I said two weeks ago. This was a freak show, an intergalactic freak show. It's a grotesque carnival, and it's only going to get worse. And I am embarrassed for the United States Senate. We have hit bottom and started to dig. This is --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Let me ask you -- let me ask you about your colleague, Senator Flake. He made a number of appearances. After Friday, he was on "60 Minutes". He did an event in Central Park in New York where he talked to the crowd about -- you know, maybe I've seen you in the elevator or something referring to the women who were confronting him in the elevator.
He did another appearance today in Boston. What do -- what do you make of all that? Well, Jeff's going to have to vote his conscience. And he and Senator Coons got together and decided we needed a delay. I've yet to hear Senator Coons who's a good friend of mine. And I have the world of a respect for him, but I haven't yet -- I'll bet you right now about how Chris votes on this nomination, finally.
I just don't think there's anything that we can do to get Democratic votes. I don't. Maybe, Joe Manchin, maybe Heidi Heitkamp. But I think, everybody is drawing a conclusion. I mean, Kavanaugh has been through six, now seven FBI background checks.
MACCALLUM: Well, that's how that you feel like it -- like you don't have the numbers to vote -- to bring him in.
KENNEDY: I really don't know. I really don't know. But I do think this, it's not going -- isn't like wine, and it's not going to get better with time. And it's time for everybody to woman up and man up and be a Senator and cast your vote in front of God and country.
And I fully trust the FBI. I want to wait and see what they turn up. But I have a feeling they're going to do just what we've already done. Just what they did six previous times.
And by the way, it keeps getting lost in this, the Senate Judiciary investigators did a full investigation. All the FBI is going to -- is going to redo what they've already done. And it's still won't be enough.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Yes, and the Senate has subpoena power, right? And the Senate has subpoena power, and this FBI investigation does not. Correct?
KENNEDY: Right. And it's never going to be enough. And when we finish with the FBI investigation, the Democrats will argue.
MACCALLUM: It wasn't enough.
KENNEDY: Well, that they're going to argue, he doesn't have the demeanor. Well, they called him a rich, drunk, lying, sexual predator, and the man took offense to that. And they say, as a result, he doesn't have the demeanor to get on the -- to be on the Supreme Court. They must really think the American people are stupid.
MACCALLUM: Senator Kennedy, thank you. Always good to have you with us. Thank you, sir.
KENNEDY: Thank you. So, here now, Judge Andrew Napolitano. Fox News senior judicial analyst joins me. And you can hear this exasperation in his voice. And that exasperation is all over the place.
ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX NEWS SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST: I think he -- perhaps in more colorful language than a lot of his colleagues, nevertheless represents the view of most Republicans in the Senate at this point. There's not much more they can do.
I have a lot of faith in the FBI, even if they're just doing this in four or five days. I understand there's a lot of FBI agents out there. The president was speaking truthfully when he said they're working around the clock on this.
They are not political. They couldn't care less about Republicans or Democrats. They probably are indifferent to whether or not Judge Kavanaugh is confirmed, their goal is just to extract evidence from witnesses and present it to the White House and presumably, that's that.
MACCALLUM: What do you think about what James Comey said? He thought it was idiocy to try to put it a shot clock on the FBI.
NAPOLITANO: I agree with Comey, but it does appear as though they did have or will have had the time to complete this by the end of the week. I was very gratified when the president said today, "Let them go, wherever they want to go within reason. Of course, within -- of course, within reason.
But this professor from the North Carolina, that he should be interviewed. And the FBI doesn't form a judgment. They are the best interrogators in the Western world, and they know how to cross-check. They know how to present questions that will test the truthfulness of the person giving the answers.
MACCALLUM: But then, they're going to turn this information over the Senate Judiciary Committee, to the -- to the Senators who already done a lengthy investigation. And one of the things that they've been pushing hard on this to try to prove that he blacked out.
If he can prove that he blacked out from drinking even once, I guess then you can say perhaps, he blacked out during these events?
NAPOLITANO: No, I think that their goal is to prove that he blacked out and thereby mislead the Congress. Because misleadingly the Congress --
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Well, there's two sides to it. Yes, both have tried, I think. Yes.
NAPOLITANO: Yes, right. Of course -- of course, there are two sides. First of all, blacking out as a student. I don't want to get in trouble for saying this. This is not a crime. It's not a good thing, but it's not a crime. But misleading Congress about that can be a crime.
MACCALLUM: Right. But the reason that he was pressed on that issue was that if he had ever blacked out from drinking.
NAPOLITANO: Correct.
MACCALLUM: They're saying that it's possible that you don't remember these events.
NAPOLITANO: Well, I mean --
MACCALLUM: I mean, that's the whole reason for that question. I asking that question for that reason.
NAPOLITANO: Are they -- are they -- right. Are they going to vote not to confirm him on the basis of possibilities or probabilities? Anything is possible, which is why we're going through this FBI examination.
MACCALLUM: I mean, you could extrapolate for that. You could say anyone who's ever blacked out from drinking, potentially committed a crime.
NAPOLITANO: Right. I think the FBI examination will actually help him. I think it will give cover to the Senators that you asked about. Democrats, moderate Democrats running in states where the president carried -- which the president carried handily in 2016. This will give them the cover to vote from. Well, we got the extra FBI examined.
MACCALLUM: Yes.
NAPOLITANO: They didn't find anything new. So, I'm going with this.
MACCALLUM: That is very interesting. Joe Donnelly, we know it on Friday I think said he was a no. Then over the weekend, he started to say he was a maybe. I got to believe he's getting a lot of calls in his office.
NAPOLITANO: But this is perilous for a Judge Kavanaugh because this investigation should have taken place before he was compelled to testify under oath.
MACCALLUM: Judge, thank you.
NAPOLITANO: You're welcome.
MACCALLUM: Great to see you tonight as always.
NAPOLITANO: Likewise.
MACCALLUM: Fox News Alert on a very busy night. President Trump just taking the stage in Tennessee amid the Kavanaugh confirmation chaos. We take you there live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Fox News Alert. President Trump just took the stage in the first of four planned campaign rallies that are happening during this week. The President is planning to hit the road in these final five weeks quite a bit. He is working toward a red wave he hopes come November. Tonight he's in Tennessee where Republican Marsha Blackburn is in the fight of her political life.
Look at that. Look at how tight this is. I mean, it doesn't get any tighter than that in Tennessee. So the latest real Real Clear Politics average looks like that as you can see. Jonathan Serrie live in Johnson City, Tennessee tonight with the story. That's a tight race, Jonathan.
JONATHAN SERRIE, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: It is indeed. And right now Freedom Hall is packed with a friendly crowd listening to President Trump who took the stage just moments ago. Although this is Mr. Trump's first rally in the tri-cities area, it is his sixth rally in Tennessee since he began his campaign for president in the 2016 election cycle. Part of this midterm election campaign tour, the President is campaigning for Senate candidate Marsha Blackburn. Blackburn is trying to fill the Senate seat being vacated by fellow Republican Bob Corker. She faces a competitive race against former Democratic Governor Phil Bredesen, so encouraging high voter turnout here in rural and conservative East Tennessee is going to be crucial. It's going to be a crucial strategy for the Republican Party and Mr. Trump's visit is a major part of that tonight.
Tomorrow President Trump plans to hold a rally in Southaven Mississippi where he is campaigning for Republican Senators Cindy Hyde-Smith who faces a four-way nonpartisan special election in November. But right now Mr. Trump in Tennessee rallying an enthusiastic crowd talking about the senate race, importance of maintaining Republican control of Congress, and also talking about the economy. Martha, back to you.
MACCALLUM: All right, we know you'll keep an eye on it. Now, we'll turn it around if there's any news coming out of that rally tonight. Jonathan, thank you very much. So coming up, you know it's a huge deal when both the New York Times and Senator Chuck Schumer say something good about the President. Steve Hilton up next on NAFTA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm going to tell our NAFTA partners that I intend to immediately renegotiate the terms of that agreement to get a better deal by a lot, not just a little, by a lot for our workers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There has never been a trade deal as bad as NAFTA. NAFTA has killed us, our stupid politicians have killed us. We will terminate it until a brand-new and productive deal can be signed.
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: We're working very hard to make sure that our neighbor to the south recognizes how good NAFTA is.
No NAFTA deal is better than a bad NAFTA deal and we are going to remain a firm on that principle.
Canadians were polite, were reasonable, but we also will not be pushed around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: President Trump making good on a campaign pledge to ditch NAFTA announcing what he calls a "historic transaction that he says will help us dairy farmers gain access to the Canadian market and auto workers negotiate higher pay." He spoke about it moments ago at the rally in Tennessee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It's the largest trade deal the United States has ever negotiated and it's also a great deal for our country. It's going to produce jobs and companies aren't going to be leaving and firing everybody and making product and sending it back into the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So the Dow liked it up almost 200 points today. Joining me now Steve Hilton, Host of "The Next Revolution" here on Fox News Channel and author of the new book Positive Populism. He is also a Fox News contributor. He does so many things. Hi Steve, good to see you tonight.
STEVE HILTON, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: How are you doing, Martha?
MACCALLUM: So you know -- I mean it's fascinating to watch this unfold because what we've heard for the past year and a half is that the president was going to ruin all of our relationships with you know, all of our allies, with all the countries around the world that these trade tariffs that he was putting in place we're going to hurt the economy dramatically. And we've seen -- you know, there's been some dings here and there for sure, but what we are starting to see is that there are bilateral relationships coming together and in this case a trilateral deal. As we know the President wanted to break these down and do them individually. So how is it working in your opinion?
HILTON: This is a really, really clear plan coming into play step by step. And the first thing we should say as you've just shown, this is a very clear specific campaign promise and it's good for democracy when politicians deliver their promises. That gives people faith that the political system works. On the specifics of the deal it's very good particularly for the dairy industry and also for the car industry as you said, but also it protects intellectual property for American companies. It's all around a good deal in itself.
But the real significance I think is that it tells the world that actually this trade strategy, this new disruptive trade strategy from President Trump it's not just bluster and tweeting and having a go at the old regime, it's really serious. And if you get down and negotiate, you can get a good deal. And then the further, final point, is that the people are going to be really worried by this is China because they'll see the step by step the president is now doing deals with allies Canada, Mexico, next perhaps the E.U. or Japan, and that's going to be one big alliance against the real threat which is China.
MACCALLUM: Yes, and that raises an interesting question because obviously, we've had billions of dollars in trade -- in trade sanctions going against China. They're obviously not happy about it. We've been sort of pushing back a little bit militarily with presence in the South China Seas. This is such a multilateral battle that we face with China but Mattis' trip there was just canceled. What kind of signal do you think that sends?
HILTON: I think it's a signal of strength. For far too long we've had this attitude in this country and this has been true under Democratic administrations as well as Republican ones that you've just got a deal with China, you've got to engage with China. If we -- if we're nice to them then they'll improve their record on human rights and they'll stop their plan to basically take over the world which they've set out, they've got a simple plan that they've said that just by the 100th year anniversary of the People's Republic, they want to be dominant militarily, technologically, and economically. And the truth is that that being nice to them hasn't stopped them.
You've got to stand up to them and so I'm really pleased to see that we're being tough not just on trade but on military matters too. And I think we need to go even further.
MACCALLUM: Real quick. He accused them of meddling in our election with regard to hurting our farmers essentially.
HILTON: Yes. And this is good. We got to call them out. I mean, everyone goes on about Russia but China is the real threat. Their economy is so much stronger and they've been hacking and meddling for years. During the days, they hacked into our government systems, stole all that personal information. And so, while the whole of the political establishment in the swamp is sort of obsessed with Russia, they've taken their eye off the ball. And it's very good to see that the Trump administration at least is not that focused on the real threat and that is China and standing up to their aggression.
MACCALLUM: We'll see how they view this NAFTA deal and as you say perhaps some others along the way as well in assessing whether or not they can do it. It's also interesting because the president canceled Pompeo's trip to North Korea and that sort of grease to the wheels a bit.
HILTON: Yes.
MACCALLUM: Now this Mattis trip is canceled. It will be interesting to see what the response from China is on that. Steve, thank you. Always good to see you.
HILTON: Good to see you, Martha.
MACCALLUM: Thanks. All right, so coming up in a moment, does Senator Elizabeth Warren flip? A new video surfaced that some say reveals Democrats true motives behind the whole Kavanaugh controversy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, D-MASS.: But that woman speaking up may actually have created an opening for Brett Kavanaugh to be brought to that he will not make it to the United States Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren seeming to revel in Democrats' end goal and the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN: But that woman speaking up may actually have created an opening for Brett Kavanaugh to be brought to that he will not make it to the United States Supreme Court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: I see. So that is Warren finally admits that she is going to take a hard look at running for the White House in 2020, which she has pushed back on for a long time.
Joining me now is Warren Senate challenger, Massachusetts GOP nominee, Geoff Diehl. Good to have you with us this evening, sir. What's your reaction to what she said? That was quite interesting.
GEOFF DIEHL, R-SENATORIAL CANDIDATE, MASSACHUSETTS: Well, you know, Elizabeth Warren, Martha, has been acting like no better than those obstructionist activists that were in the Senate elevator.
She was a no before Brett Kavanaugh's name was even pulled out of the hatch, she's manipulated a video to try to make him look bad, she's fund raised off the victim's story, uncorroborated story. And now she is using this assault on due process to basically make an announcement that she wants to run for the White House.
Something that we've known for over a year here in Massachusetts. But she has never been focused on Massachusetts, and she is using this whole Senate confirmation process as a way to try to introduce herself to the nation as the next candidate for president in 2020.
MACCALLUM: But let me ask you this. I think it's very interesting when you listen to what she said there. She essentially said that this woman, as she puts it, when she refers to Dr. Christine Ford, has given us an opportunity, politically, she says, to Democrats, because it opens a door and now we have this ability to use this to achieve our goal.
Now here's what Kevin McCarthy said that got him in a lot of hot water during the Benghazi days. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY, R-CALIF.: Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee, what are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping. Why? Because she is untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: So he essentially said we used the Benghazi committee to achieve a political goal. She has essentially said exactly the same thing. When he said it, Democrats were up in arms at how that he could, you know, be so cold and calculating.
How come they are not responding also to what she said, if they don't like these situations to be used politically?
DIEHL: Well, Congressman Ellison accusations, the fact is Elizabeth Warren is using this. There is no presumption of innocence for her in the case of Brett Kavanaugh. This is a chance for her to try to make political bonus points for herself in an effort to try to get to that far progressive left- wing nomination for 2020.
And she is, again, ignoring Massachusetts in the process. So she has never been working for our state, she clearly doesn't care about working for our state for the next two years if she runs for the White House. And so yes, she is an opportunist of the highest degree.
MACCALLUM: So you got a tough battle on your hands. You are down about 26 points in the most recent poll. How do you hope to close that gap in 36 days?
DIEHL: Well, the same polling company had me neck and neck with my two primary opponents. I won two to one. Scott Brown had the same 30 points against him when he first ran against Martha Coakley back in 2010. Same polling company. No surprise. But we have numbers that show we are leading with Elizabeth Warren with independence in the state. That's where this race is going to be won.
MACCALLUM: We'll be watching. Geoff Diehl, thanks for being with us tonight. Good to see you.
DIEHL: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So coming up, should there be a law against making an anonymous accusations of sexual assault? Charles Hurt and Jessica Tarlov on a very interesting development in California, that means settlements would be illegal?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MACCALLUM: So the Senate and FBI working around the clock these days to get to the bottom of the allegations against Brett Kavanaugh in Washington.
And California Governor Jerry Brown taking action to ban secrecy surrounding sexual harassment settlements. So it has to be out in the open.
Trace Gallagher has a story for us from our west coast newsroom tonight. Hey, Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Martha. The bill signed by Governor Brown not only bans secret settlements and sexual misconduct cases, it also outlaws nondisclosure agreements in those cases.
The California law is aimed to making sure wealthy and well-connected people can't repeatedly buy their way out of sexual misconduct allegations.
Separately, this law would also allow alleged victims of sexual misconduct to remain anonymous, while the names of alleged suspects cannot be kept confidential.
Critics say the bill is tilted heavily in favor of accusers.
The governor also signed other sexual misconduct legislation, including a bill to clean up the state capital. Last year, 140 women came forward denouncing state lawmakers for promoting a, quote, "pervasive culture of sexual harassment." Three lawmakers ended up resigning, four more are facing allegations.
But tonight, a Democratic congressional hopeful is no longer facing sexual harassment claims. Earlier this year, Gil Cisneros who is running to replace retiring GOP California Congressman Ed Royce, was accused by a Democratic activist of offering her a political donation in exchange for sex.
Well now that activist is changing Melissa Fazli is changing her tune. This weekend, a meeting was facilitated between Fazli and Cisneros and afterwards, she said, quoting, "I misunderstood the conversation that I had with him Gil Cisneros at the Democratic convention and after. I don't believe that Gil sexually harassed me."
But Cisneros is currently running against Republican Young Kim for that congressional seat, and the Republican super PAC is continuing to capitalize on the sexual harassment allegations. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He inappropriately invited himself to her hotel room and demanded sex in exchange for supporting her campaign. It's wrong. It's disgusting. Gil Cisneros have you no shame?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Cisneros and Fazli have both condemned the ads, but now even a progressive group is calling up on the Democratic congressional campaign committee to immediately withdraw its support from Gil Cisneros. Martha?
MACCALLUM: Fascinating. Trace, thank you. Here with more, Charlie Hurt, opinion editor at Washington Times, and Jessica Tarlov, senior director of research at Bustle.com. Both are Fox News contributors.
OK. California first. What do you think about outlying secret settlements?
CHARLES HURT, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I'm all in favor of far more openness in courts and court settlements and things like that. But this seems really kind of insane because first of all, I don't know that the courts can guarantee that they are going to keep victims' identities secret.
You know, we saw what happened with Dianne Feinstein--
JESSICA TARLOV, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right.
HURT: -- trying to keep a victim identity secret. But the real problem I think is that what will end up happening, and I don't know why sex crime advocates -- you know, victim advocates would be in favor of something like this -- because all this does is, nobody -- no aggressor is going to agree to these stipulations.
And so, all it is going to do is force all these cases out into the open and my understanding is that that's not where most of the victims of these things want to argue these cases.
MACCALLUM: yes.
TARLOV: It does add another level of trauma to it. And everyone who has been a victim certainly has a right to decide if they want to be public about it or keep it private.
I think that what California is trying to do, What Governor Jerry Brown is trying do is to leave a legacy behind of being the state with the strongest advocacy for victims of sexual assault. And I certainly applaud him for that.
But it is a tricky situation when you are demanding that one party, the person who has been accused of this, their name absolutely becomes public. But the accuser's name is private. And it does--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: I mean, I think it would force the accused to have a public process, right? That is the name that is going to be shared.
TARLOV: Right but it could lead to more of a complication like we are saying right now with Judge Brett Kavanaugh and Dr. Ford who didn't want her name to become public but they want something to be done about this.
MACCALLUM: Right.
TARLOV: But we do know that we women need more protection in their contracts to make sure that they are not going to be penalized for filing sexual harassment or sexual assault suits. And that is also what Governor Brown is trying to do. There are number of bills that went through for protecting their--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Let me just get your quick thought on this because I'm almost out of time. And this is narrow situation, she wrote this very, you know, long letter about this, what she described as a really uncomfortable situation.
TARLOV: Right.
MACCALLUM: In elevator she thought he was offering, you know, if she had sex with him he would her money for her campaign. And then she said, no, actually, we met and we talked it out, that's not what happened.
HURT: Well, you know, I certainly wasn't there, I don't know what happened. But I can tell you one thing.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: What happened in the elevator, Charlie?
HURT: It sounds like this is exactly the sort of thing that agreement that wouldn't be allowed to be made under this new law, that Jerry Brown just signed.
TARLOV: I think there are a lot of liberal groups who are strongly against this who are maintaining that there could have even been pressure because she said, you know, we hop in the phone and we talked it out.
No one has a recording of that conversation, no one knows if there was another layer of abuse that went on there where he said something like I'm going to ruin your life if you keep going with this. And then she retracted it and then maybe she get the donation out of it, maybe she doesn't. I think, you know--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: That would be ugly. You think that's what happened?
TARLOV: I don't know if that's what happened. None of us were on the phone or in the elevator or any of it, but there are so many different angles to how this situations go, and it so complicated and you know, harmful on both sides now. You have to be aware that anything could have gone on.
HURT: Well, you know, the thing that's most disturbing about the situation with Dianne Feinstein and Dr. Ford, is that in that situation, there was a process in place to keep her identity secrets, and look into the allegations seriously and then everybody that makes a decision is in charge of making a decision on that committee, what about all the information that they needed to know.
And instead what we got was a guy gets dragged through the mud and a woman gets exposed.
TARLOV: You mean if they had questions, there would have been anonymous allegations--
(CROSSTALK)
HURT: Yes.
TARLOV: -- then her private meetings we understand we do have these allegations--
(CROSSTALK)
HURT: Exactly. There was a process for--
MACCALLUM: The regular Senate judiciary process of dealing with that information, sharing it with no name attached in all of that.
HURT: Instead everybody's lives gets blown up.
MACCALLUM: Thanks, guys. Good to see you.
TARLOV: Thanks, Martha.
MACCALLUM: So coming up next, if Brett Kavanaugh does go down due to process -- does due process go down with him? And what does that mean for parents raising young men and parents raising young women? In an environment where evidence and substantiation and cooperation is in question.
A panel of mom's from all political stripes is about to join me and take on this very hot question, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Democrats are willing to do anything and to hurt anyone to get their way, like they are doing with Judge Kavanaugh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MACCALLUM: Well just a few moments ago at the rally in Tennessee. And over the past couple of weeks, we've all heard a lot about this issue. We've talked a lot about it.
And I have heard from many moms of sons who say that their fear is that if this Brett Kavanaugh nomination goes down, it could reflect badly on the process and due process and that that could be in jeopardy and if that's where this is headed, what should parents say to their children and how should they teach them but all this?
It is a very hot topic because I've heard a lot on both sides of us so we brought in a panel of moms raising young men and young women. Welcome to all of you. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for having us here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
MACCALLUM: So, you know, this idea that moms of sons worry that perhaps if their son is innocent in the current environment, he may not have a chance at fairness. Does that ring true for any of you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It does.
MACCALLUM: Let's start here.
KATHY BARNETTE, MOTHER OF YOUNG SON & DAUGHTER: Well, it does. I mean, because we're looking at this, right. And I had my son to sit and watch most of the Kavanaugh hearing, and as I said to him, as parents, we are always trying to monitor our children to leave exemplary lives.
Well here we have Judge Kavanaugh who has lived an exemplary life, and up until three weeks ago, he was known as a judge's judge, and now Democrats are trying to convince us that he has lived an unblemished life, except for those two years he was running around town drugging and gang raping women.
And it's just is foolish and based on what, uncorroborated evidence. Here is a woman who has made a charge against this particular judge, and she can't even really remember what happened two months ago when asked whether or not she gave her test -- her therapy nosed to the Washington Post, she couldn't remember. Well, that was just two months ago and it's not tied to the rape and yet, you still can't remember?
MACCALLUM: Let -- you have a boy and a girl, and you know, talk to me a little bit about what you would say to them. Like, just imagine for a moment that your son is accused of something like this, and you feel that he is innocent.
PAULA NOTARI, HAS ONE SON AND ONE DAUGHTER: Well, I can speak as a mom but I'm also happened to be a criminal defense lawyer and this is not a criminal trial. It's a denomination for a Supreme Court, the highest court in the nation, and there has to be a probing process.
This is a judge, we're -- you know, a conservative majority is now at the Supreme Court and this judge will have the opportunity to--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: But let me, as a mom, because how would you feel if you felt your son was falsely accused? Because you are very familiar with the criminal process. You know, you look at for instance, the duke case or UVA, there are times, and it's not the majority of times, but there are times when this happens. Does that concern you as a mom of a young boy?
NOTARI: Well, firsts as a mother, I would want there to be due process, I would want to make sure that there was a thorough investigation.
MACCALLUM: Right.
NOTARI: I would want to make sure that every witness--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's not happening here.
MACCALLUM: That's all that I was saying in this tweet that got a lot of people fired up, is that, wouldn't you want people to know that he was being treated fairly?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this is not fair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a mother of a daughter and I--
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANIE RUSSELL, HAS ONE SON AND ONE DAUGHTER: We have watched this unfold. He has not been treated fairly. As you said, this guy didn't fall out of the sky, he has risen to the top, investigation after investigation, we know who he is, his only crime is that he was nominated by our president and that's what it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So if it's completely above reproach. Then why not go through another investigation?
BARNETTE: Because the goal of Democrats is not for the truth. If the truth is what Democrats was looking at then I want to know where the Democrats are on Keith Ellison dragging his girlfriend across--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: All right. Let's I want to hear from Danielle and then I want to hear from Melissa too. Danielle, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think this is a great teachable moment for all of our children, right--
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- for our boys to live a life and as above reproach and to have this investigation and absolutely, I mean, then go through that investigation, but also for the women, for our daughters to know that we believe you, and this may have happened to you, and we want to investigate this, so they can come forward, they can feel safe coming forward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's exactly the way I feel, is right now my focus is on Dr. Ford. She came out speaking and sharing her life. She didn't have to do that. But something about this triggered her what happened to her--
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETTE: Come on, she doesn't know how she got there, she doesn't know how she left, she doesn't even know where -- and all of that fact (Inaudible) As a woman, we deserve to be heard.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But as a mom who has -- I have gone through something like this--
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: You have two boys and two girls.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two boys and two girls. And I've gone through similar paths, there are things that just, your brain just suppresses, and it comes out later on in life. Just want to go through life and it comes out.
MACCALLUM: Understood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So--
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETTE: And I completely understand that. And to your situation, I completely understand that. And we want to. We -- I believe women should be heard. Everyone should be heard. But I also believe that we are not to be believed simply because we are women. In this country, we are -- we are a land of law.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: All right. Let me hear from Stephanie.
RUSSELL: Why are we having this conversation? This is the same way the Democrats have done forever.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've seen this before.
RUSSELL: It's the same thing. This man is a constitutionalist, that's a check against them. You mentioned that right away, this means that he is going to. We don't know. He is going to the process, as you said, Kath, judge's judge, everybody loves him until he was nominated by Donald Trump, and all of a sudden.
(CROSSTALK)
MACCALLUM: Let me just say -- let me just say one thing about the issue of justice, which is supposed to be blind.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
MACCALLUM: So to me that means you look at the evidence, regardless of gender. I don't believe all women and I don't believe all men.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen.
MACCALLUM: I want to look to look at what happened and ask to treat these two people fairly. Every one of the situations is different.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
MACCALLUM: It's not a big sweep where every all women are totally--
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETTE: We have Democrats who have come out and said, without even meetings on Dr. Ford that they believe her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
MACCALLUM: We got to leave it there. We're going to continue this conversation after the break but we'll see you tomorrow. Tucker Carlson is up next in D.C. Thank you so much.
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